relationship issues - advise needed

[confusedinvestor]

Folks,
Need some help and advise, going through rough times with my spouse, got 2 8 year old kids, unsure if we are in a point of considering divorce,
1. are there any free resources or books i should read before considering divorce ?
2. how do i even logically evaluate our situation ? should we try to find a marriage counselor using yelp/local ?
3. is there a way to reduce costs or financial burden for seeking advise (such as counselors) ? what is the best way to search for inexpensive counselors ?

[MJW]

You are going to need to ask some pretty specific financially-related questions for your post to have a chance of remaining open here. Might want to go back to square one with this.

[daheld]

Yeah, this is going to (rightfully) get locked down. Seek marriage counseling, not advice from internet strangers on a finance board.

Good luck; I hope it works out for you and your family.

[mouses]

I would resolve the issue of do you two want to get divorced, or can you save your marriage, before trying to work out the financial issues. I can;t imagine staying married for financial reasons unless one is desperately poor.

The first counselor you find may not be the right one. It's like finding a doctor you feel comfortable with. Try asking the family doc or better yet the obgyn for a reference.

Typing fast to avoid the mods

[FGal]

Counselor. Contact your insurance for a list of covered counselors. Don't say you need marriage counseling, as they won't technically cover that usually (eyeroll here) but tell them that you need counselors for individual counseling, dealing with a hopefully a short term stressful situation.

Then check out the counselors' websites and ask about couples counseling. Make a few appointments, see how you both feel. It may take a few tries to find a counselor that "fits" you and your situation.

If that seems too much, then ask for help through your church or search for free/non-profit counseling centers in your area. In general, if you live in a decent sized city, you should have options.

The big thing is to really sit down and talk to your spouse without any distractions (like kids or other people around) and have an honest, open and non-judgemental/defensive talk about what you both want right now. That means, no accusing, no blaming, no raised voices. Just talk about what they need and you need, what your hopes are, and listen to each other and see if there is enough there for the both of you to work together.

Helpful reading:

“The Five Love Languages: The Secret to Love that Lasts” By Gary D Chapman

“The Relationship Cure: A 5 Step Guide to Strengthening Your Marriage, Family, and Friendships” By John Gottman

[THY4373]

I went through this a few years ago. Some quick advice. For sure seeking out a martial counselor. The one my ex an I used was excellent (though we did end up getting divorced). I would also suggest getting an individual counselor as well for each of you. The one I had was a great help though if I had to choose one over the other the marriage counselor was more useful. This can add up to a significant expense depending on what is covered by insurance or not. I read a bunch of books on relationships which were also helpful most in understanding what had gone wrong but not really in fixing it.

My ex and I basically used Internet research to find our counselor and it worked out. I will say that I could find no good figures on how successful marriage counseling is to be honest if you only count "success" as saving a marriage (I do not now but at the time I did). The impression I get is that it is not particularly successful much of the time I suspect because often times folks do not seek help until it is essentially too late. That said even though the marriage counselor did not save our marriage she was very useful for several reasons. One, she allowed my ex and I to work through things faster, better and in a safe environment. Two, she realized when I was done with the marriage before I realized it. One day she asked are you ready to divorce and to my surprise I said yes I am and I was. Three, she suggested we do a collaborative divorce and even recommended the lawyers, neutral financial adviser and counselor for our son. These recommendations were spot on and the collaborative process saved by ex and I a lot of divorce costs and allowed us to be friend and create a positive environment for our son.

Honestly my divorce was one of the best things I have ever done. It was brutal going through it but now I am out I have a better relationship with my son (we split him 50/50), a great friendship with my ex and a much better life. Good luck!

Edit: One other thought. When you are considering divorce and/or going through it you may come up with all kinds of doomsday scenarios, I know I certainly did. None came to fruition and of course life goes on. Don't get too hung up on what might be and don't let it hold you back from making the right decisions.

[confusedinvestor]

should i call my health insurance ?

Counselor. Contact your insurance for a list of covered counselors. Don't say you need marriage counseling, as they won't technically cover that usually (eyeroll here) but tell them that you need counselors for individual counseling, dealing with a hopefully a short term stressful situation.

[PFInterest]

Folks,
Need some help and advise, going through rough times with my spouse, got 2 8 year old kids, unsure if we are in a point of considering divorce,
1. are there any free resources or books i should read before considering divorce ?
2. how do i even logically evaluate our situation ? should we try to find a marriage counselor using yelp/local ?
3. is there a way to reduce costs or financial burden for seeking advise (such as counselors) ? what is the best way to search for inexpensive counselors ?

sounds like you are getting divorced soon.

[SmileyFace]

In addition to checking with your insurance for a good councilor, if you belong to a church, check with your priest/minister/pastor/rabbi/whatever.

If the situation is very tough it might be worth getting THREE councilors (sounds crazy but this is what is often recommended).
1 as your private councilor so you can work out where your thoughts really are.
1 as your spouses councilor - similar to above
and a 3rd and completely separate marriage councilor that works with you together.

All three might be covered by your medical insurance.
Best of luck.

[confusedinvestor]

Thank you, that is excellent advise, i will call my insurance today.

I had surgery last year and since then i have been depressed too and now causing marriage issues.

In addition to checking with your insurance for a good councilor, if you belong to a church, check with your priest/minister/pastor/rabbi/whatever.

If the situation is very tough it might be worth getting THREE councilors (sounds crazy but this is what is often recommended).
1 as your private councilor so you can work out where your thoughts really are.
1 as your spouses councilor - similar to above
and a 3rd and completely separate marriage councilor that works with you together.

All three might be covered by your medical insurance.
Best of luck.

[confusedinvestor]

Thanks you.

Counselor.

Helpful reading:

“The Five Love Languages: The Secret to Love that Lasts” By Gary D Chapman

“The Relationship Cure: A 5 Step Guide to Strengthening Your Marriage, Family, and Friendships” By John Gottman

[ResearchMed]

Thank you, that is excellent advise, i will call my insurance today.

I had surgery last year and since then i have been depressed too and now causing marriage issues.

In addition to checking with your insurance for a good councilor, if you belong to a church, check with your priest/minister/pastor/rabbi/whatever.

If the situation is very tough it might be worth getting THREE councilors (sounds crazy but this is what is often recommended).
1 as your private councilor so you can work out where your thoughts really are.
1 as your spouses councilor - similar to above
and a 3rd and completely separate marriage councilor that works with you together.

All three might be covered by your medical insurance.
Best of luck.

Then DEFINITELY get some therapy for yourself, regardless of the marital issues, which may or may not be helped by some improvement here.

Good luck.

RM

[Atilla]

My advice is both of you need to consider divorce as not an option and work it out starting from there.

Not a big fan of counselors - at your point usually one party is set on divorce and the other isn't. Counseling is just a pathway to make the "want to leave" partner feel better on the way out.

Hoo - fun times, been there, done that.

[onmyway33]

I totally agree with your desire to minimize costs with this matter, but I would warn you not be penny-wise and pound-foolish here. Divorce can be extremely expensive (financially, mentally, emotionally, etc.).

Spend money wisely on things like qualified and effective marriage counselors, books, marriage retreats, child care expenses so you and your spouse can have alone time together to discuss your issues. Even hire out some help around the house to allow you and/or your wife to have some time to yourselves. Don't be afraid to invest financially in your marriage. That being said, if the spending of money is the root of your marital issues, you likely can't spend your way to happiness, but need to work on communication and compromise.

I don't spend money on much, but I would spend my last cent (and likely go into debt) if it would help me save my marriage.

[GoofyOne]

You can check if your employer offers an Employee Assistance Program (EAP.) This usually can get you in contact with counselors and provide financial help

https://www.opm.gov/faqs/QA.aspx?fid=43 ... 039a1e1174

[confusedinvestor]

great advise, i will call my employer EAP, thank you.

You can check if your employer offers an Employee Assistance Program (EAP.) This usually can get you in contact with counselors and provide financial help

https://www.opm.gov/faqs/QA.aspx?fid=43 ... 039a1e1174

[KlangFool]

Thanks you.

Counselor.

Helpful reading:

“The Five Love Languages: The Secret to Love that Lasts” By Gary D Chapman

“The Relationship Cure: A 5 Step Guide to Strengthening Your Marriage, Family, and Friendships” By John Gottman

https://www.gottman.com/blog/the-four-h ... newalling/

Another vote for Gottman.

KlangFool

[staythecourse]

First, do you AND your spouse want to work on it? If so, are you both open to relationship counseling? If the answers are no it is like sending a patient to rehab who doesn't want to quit... it is ultimately a waste of time.

If the answers to above are yes I would NOT think about lowest cost options. There is no relationship more meaningful for you, your spouse, AND your kids then your marriage. Not an area to cut corners. Don't be shy. Let your close friends know and ask if they have names to suggest that you can see.

Then get on it. Make it a priority. Do the work. Don't expect it to be easy it will take a lot of hard work. It is like peeling back an onion as each layer reveals a smellier layer underneath.

Good luck.

[Balefire]

Read or listen to the five love languages by Gary Chapman. A lot cheaper than a counselor

[VictoriaF]

Thank you, that is excellent advise, i will call my insurance today.

I had surgery last year and since then i have been depressed too and now causing marriage issues.

Tell your wife just that: Tell her that after the surgery you feel depressed, that you are working on it, that you would like her help, and that you hope that once your depression dissipates your family life will improve.

You have two 8-year olds: This is a wonderful age! People of that age, and those around them, tend to be very playful. Play with your 8-year olds and ask your wife to join.

Do you and your wife get enough sleep? The vast majority of people need 8-hour night sleep to feel cheerful and energized. The vast majority of people don't get enough sleep. Join the cheerful and energized minority, and your family life will flourish.

Victoria

[Jags4186]

Don’t worry about the cost to figuring this out. You can’t spend enough to make it not worthwhile to try and work it out. Divorce could easily cost $100,000 or more depending on how many assets you have and how acrimonious you two would want to be. $100,000 buys an awful lot of therapy sessions. Ontop of that, the same income will need to support two living situations as opposed to one. So as long as it isn’t an abuse situation, I would try whatever it takes to work it out.

[celia]

Another place you may be able to get inexpensive help, if you are religious, is through your church minister. Since his/her resources may be limited, you might be referred to another counselor along the way. But at least it's a start.

[rgs92]

Don't call EAP (employee assistance)! The last thing you want to do is get your employer mixed up with (or have information about) your personal problems. You have no idea how they will interpret or process this in terms of how they view you. And it won't be positive.
And it's not confidential, no matter what they say. And if they (your management) don't know the details, they will have raised eyebrows.

[bligh]

I am sorry to hear of the rough patch in your relationship. Hope you guys are able to work things out.

I personally know of one couple that was able to prevent divorce through the use of a therapy and counseling. So it does work in some cases.

Each situation is different, but my advice would be for you two to hang in there if you can. Your kids are at an age where they would feel the full brunt
of it all and sometimes the storm can pass and you can rediscover the flame that made you want to commit to each other in the first place. If you do decide to part, try to be as amicable as possible. There is enough pain in all of this and adding more fuel to that fire isn't going to help anyone.

[Muri]

OP,
Definitely call EAP. Please also go see your primary care provider about your depression right away. Don't make any major personal or financial decisions until you get the help you need.

[rgs92]

These days, the best place for free advice about these things are sites like TAM (talk about marriage).
And the best thing you may want to do is peruse TAM for experiences that mirror your own.
No need to pay high paid counselors. You can get this kind of feedback for free.

If you personally are feeling really sad and don't know where to turn, see a therapist on your own. Hopefully you insurance will pay for it.

That's probably the best question here: will my insurance pay for mental health therapy?
(And: how do I find a good therapist and make sure insurance pays?).

[UpsetRaptor]

Big fan of marriage counseling here, in my opinion it can often be healthy/beneficial even in a lot in situations where the relationship isn't necessarily on the rocks.

[confusedinvestor]

oh no, i already called EAP and they set me up with a independent counselor - they said it is confidential by law unless they sense i may harm myself or others...oh well...EAP says, i have 5 free sessions

Don't call EAP (employee assistance)! The last thing you want to do is get your employer mixed up with (or have information about) your personal problems. You have no idea how they will interpret or process this in terms of how they view you. And it won't be positive.
And it's not confidential, no matter what they say. And if they (your management) don't know the details, they will have raised eyebrows.

[carolinaman]

oh no, i already called EAP and they set me up with a independent counselor - they said it is confidential by law unless they sense i may harm myself or others...oh well...EAP says, i have 5 free sessions

Don't call EAP (employee assistance)! The last thing you want to do is get your employer mixed up with (or have information about) your personal problems. You have no idea how they will interpret or process this in terms of how they view you. And it won't be positive.
And it's not confidential, no matter what they say. And if they (your management) don't know the details, they will have raised eyebrows.

I encourage you to go ahead with EAP sessions. I would not worry about the risks cited by this poster. FWIW, I got good results from my one time using EAP. I am unaware of any issues with confidentiality at our organization and EAP was used a lot.

[Cyclesafe]

Watch "War of the Roses" (rediscover what bonded you together in the first place) with Michael Douglas and Kathleen Turner. Then watch "Fatal Attraction" ( grass in not always greener) with Michael Douglas and Glenn Close.

The cost of these two Netflix rentals (and separate vacations) saved my marriage. Scared straight.

[Faith20879]

oh no, i already called EAP and they set me up with a independent counselor - they said it is confidential by law unless they sense i may harm myself or others...oh well...EAP says, i have 5 free sessions

No worries! I used the EAP when mourning my mothers passing. It was helpful and indeed confidential. My employer was not involved at all.

Best wishes!

[Jack FFR1846]

Think rationally about how each of your lives will be after a divorce. Marketwatch articles talk about this a lot. Both parties seem to think their lives will be exactly the same after a divorce with the spouse magically removed. Things that could very well happen:

The house is gone. Neither of you can afford it by yourself. Go out and see what apartments are like that you'll now be living in.
Retirement savings will likely be split.
If one spouse is not working, consider that the divorce may result in poverty level payments from the spouse. Going back to work will likely occur.
The court decides how much each of you contribute towards the kids' college expenses. This can limit the college or eliminate college. FAFSA doesn't care that you're divorced and treats the total of your incomes and assets as if they're from a single unit.
Figure a couple years of income worth is going to pay for the lawyers.

[VictoriaF]

Watch "War of the Roses" (rediscover what bonded you together in the first place) with Michael Douglas and Kathleen Turner. Then watch "Fatal Attraction" ( grass in not always greener) with Michael Douglas and Glenn Close.

The cost of these two Netflix rentals (and separate vacations) saved my marriage. Scared straight.

Good advice. The OP should watch the films with his wife. Both of them should get scared together and discuss what it means to them.

Victoria

[Cyclesafe]

Watch "War of the Roses" (rediscover what bonded you together in the first place) with Michael Douglas and Kathleen Turner. Then watch "Fatal Attraction" ( grass in not always greener) with Michael Douglas and Glenn Close.

The cost of these two Netflix rentals (and separate vacations) saved my marriage. Scared straight.

Good advice. The OP should watch the films with his wife. Both of them should get scared together and discuss what it means to them.

Victoria

Rather than scaring the wife, they will be empowering. Better for the husband to watch them alone and resolve to be the man she married. If she still dumps him, he'll be able to hit the ground running.....

[protagonist]

Folks,
Need some help and advise, going through rough times with my spouse, got 2 8 year old kids, unsure if we are in a point of considering divorce,
1. are there any free resources or books i should read before considering divorce ?

Hold Me Tight by Sue Johnson. Buy it today. IMHO, coming from a person who usually makes fun of "self-help books", this book is invaluable for happy and unhappy couples alike. It may be all you need.

2. how do i even logically evaluate our situation ? should we try to find a marriage counselor using yelp/local ?

Can't really help you here, sorry. I would try to get references for couples therapy from friends or colleagues you trust who have been in similar situations.

3. is there a way to reduce costs or financial burden for seeking advise (such as counselors) ? what is the best way to search for inexpensive counselors ?

If you are seriously considering cost of therapy as a factor (figuring you would probably spend a few thousand dollars by the time you figured out where your marriage was headed), and if you are not poor, I question how much you value your marriage.

If you really care, seek out the best therapist available and pay the price. You may have to try a few, since "best" is a very subjective thing. If you get divorced you will probably lose half of your joint assets anyway, so console yourself with the realization that if it succeeds you will be happily married and if it fails you have only paid half the cost *laughing*.

[cheese_breath]

Folks,
Need some help and advise, going through rough times with my spouse, got 2 8 year old kids, unsure if we are in a point of considering divorce, ...

Have you talked to your Pastor?

[shell921]

Counselor. Contact your insurance for a list of covered counselors. Don't say you need marriage counseling, as they won't technically cover that usually (eyeroll here) but tell them that you need counselors for individual counseling, dealing with a hopefully a short term stressful situation.

Then check out the counselors' websites and ask about couples counseling. Make a few appointments, see how you both feel. It may take a few tries to find a counselor that "fits" you and your situation.

If that seems too much, then ask for help through your church or search for free/non-profit counseling centers in your area. In general, if you live in a decent sized city, you should have options.

The big thing is to really sit down and talk to your spouse without any distractions (like kids or other people around) and have an honest, open and non-judgemental/defensive talk about what you both want right now. That means, no accusing, no blaming, no raised voices. Just talk about what they need and you need, what your hopes are, and listen to each other and see if there is enough there for the both of you to work together.

Helpful reading:

“The Five Love Languages: The Secret to Love that Lasts” By Gary D Chapman

“The Relationship Cure: A 5 Step Guide to Strengthening Your Marriage, Family, and Friendships” By John Gottman

[shell921]

ALL books by John Gottman are great and here is an article:

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/arch ... e-comments

http://www.psychpage.com/family/gottman.html

John Gottman has been conducting marital therapy research for almost 30 years, and is a well-respected leader in the field. Based on this research and clinical testing of the theory, he and his wife Julie Schwartz-Gottman have developed a solid understanding of why some relationships last and why some do not, as well as an effective model for relationship therapy. The Gottmans have studied both the “masters and disasters” of marriage (as the absence of what makes for a good relationship may not necessarily be the same thing as what makes for a bad relationship).

Gottman pulls no punches in laying out his data for how couples drift apart and how happy couples stay together.
Gottman does identify the key behaviours to avoid and the key behaviours that can help.

[Katietsu]

oh no, i already called EAP and they set me up with a independent counselor - they said it is confidential by law unless they sense i may harm myself or others...oh well...EAP says, i have 5 free sessions

Don't call EAP (employee assistance)! The last thing you want to do is get your employer mixed up with (or have information about) your personal problems. You have no idea how they will interpret or process this in terms of how they view you. And it won't be positive.
And it's not confidential, no matter what they say. And if they (your management) don't know the details, they will have raised eyebrows.

Please take advantage of the services. I really hope it would be a rare rogue EAP programs where confidentiality would be an issue in this day and age. You should not even need to disclose to your management that you are using the services.

[2015]

oh no, i already called EAP and they set me up with a independent counselor - they said it is confidential by law unless they sense i may harm myself or others...oh well...EAP says, i have 5 free sessions

Don't call EAP (employee assistance)! The last thing you want to do is get your employer mixed up with (or have information about) your personal problems. You have no idea how they will interpret or process this in terms of how they view you. And it won't be positive.
And it's not confidential, no matter what they say. And if they (your management) don't know the details, they will have raised eyebrows.

Please take advantage of the services. I really hope it would be a rare rogue EAP programs where confidentiality would be an issue in this day and age. You should not even need to disclose to your management that you are using the services.

Yes, please do use the EAP service. The statement that employee assistance plans are not confidential is absolutely false. EAP's are for the most part outsourced to companies that only provide aggregate utilization data back to the employer, with no personal information attached. In-house EAP's work in the same manner, reporting only aggregate utilization data back to HR.

Employers recognize that employees are going to have issues of a personal nature in their lives, and the idea behind EAP's is that they increase employee productivity because EAP's are designed to support employees in dealing with personal matters. It always astounded me when working that employees didn't utilize this free referral benefit more (probably because it wasn't communicated very well as the above erroneous comment demonstrates).

OP, I'm sorry you're having to navigate this life event. LIfe events always occur because we are meant to learn something, but that doesn't mean it feels good. Best of luck to you.

[moehoward]

Folks,
Need some help and advise, going through rough times with my spouse, got 2 8 year old kids, unsure if we are in a point of considering divorce,
1. are there any free resources or books i should read before considering divorce ?
2. how do i even logically evaluate our situation ? should we try to find a marriage counselor using yelp/local ?
3. is there a way to reduce costs or financial burden for seeking advise (such as counselors) ? what is the best way to search for inexpensive counselors ?

From my experience in your situation:
Don't listen to anybody on a financial blog. With that said, unless both of you want to stay in the marriage a counselor will be no help. Find someone to watch the kids and go somewhere overnight and talk with your spouse (no interruptions). Unless you have serious problems, i.e. affairs, drugs, etc. your problems are probably minor and can be worked out. Forget about cost of counselor, it will be a nit compared to a divorce.

[nedsaid]

Folks,
Need some help and advise, going through rough times with my spouse, got 2 8 year old kids, unsure if we are in a point of considering divorce,
1. are there any free resources or books i should read before considering divorce ?
2. how do i even logically evaluate our situation ? should we try to find a marriage counselor using yelp/local ?
3. is there a way to reduce costs or financial burden for seeking advise (such as counselors) ? what is the best way to search for inexpensive counselors ?

Being a single guy, I am pretty clueless about such things but I have observed some things over many years.

Divorce in my mind is the absolute last resort. It is just devastating to families and devastating to eight year old kids who really want the stability of a home and the stability of mom and dad. Unless there is abuse or if the other spouse absolutely wants out, my bias would be to try and stick it out. Divorce not only tears the immediate family apart but also the extended family. It is also financially devastating.

If you are unsure, this implies to me that there is no abuse and that your spouse hasn't reached the point of no return. I would put the option of divorce out of my mind and work 100% to patching things up.

If for some reason that divorce happens, it isn't the end of the world either. But it makes for a lot of complications, particularly if you both remarry afterwards. A lot of the complications revolve around the kids. Doesn't mean life is over, lots of folks have happier second marriages. Might be easier to fix issues now than to take them into subsequent marriages.

More distant family members divorced after 50 plus years of marriage. It was messy and it was very ugly. The rifts created in their family may never heal. Lots of damage can happen even if the kids are grown and have families of their own.

Please, please think long and hard before considering divorce. Sometimes it can't be avoided but the fact that you are unsure tells me that things can still be fixed.

[VictoriaF]

Watch "War of the Roses" (rediscover what bonded you together in the first place) with Michael Douglas and Kathleen Turner. Then watch "Fatal Attraction" ( grass in not always greener) with Michael Douglas and Glenn Close.

The cost of these two Netflix rentals (and separate vacations) saved my marriage. Scared straight.

Good advice. The OP should watch the films with his wife. Both of them should get scared together and discuss what it means to them.

Victoria

Rather than scaring the wife, they will be empowering. Better for the husband to watch them alone and resolve to be the man she married. If she still dumps him, he'll be able to hit the ground running.....

If a man avoided "scaring me," "resolved to be the man," and conveyed information to me by proxy rather than directly -- these actions alone would be grounds for a divorce.

Victoria

[saver007]

Hold Me Tight by Sue Johnson and any relationship books by John Gottman are excellent aids to navigate this situation. Both Sue Johnson and Johnson Gottman are leaders in this field and many marriage therapist just follow their approches.

[BrandonBogle]

I will echo others that if you decide to pursue marriage counseling resources (a counselor, time alone w/o distraction, what-have-you), to do that without consideration to the cost of it as it is far more likely that if you do go through divorce, the cost of these resources would be inconsequential compared to the cost of the divorce and the life changes needed of it.

I would advocate being true and honest about how you two feel about things, without passing judgement, berating each other, and by listening with open ears (even to critical statements).

That said, also keep in mind it is not the end of the world. I never got married, but for years I was in a very unhappy relationship that continued to deteriorate and neither one of us really worked on fixing it like we should (we both did some things, but not what should have happened). We were scared of life without the other would be. While I'm still single (its been less than a year) and a very difficult thing emotionally, I am overall far happier in life.

Hopefully you two will find happiness, be it together or separate.

[Cyclesafe]

Watch "War of the Roses" (rediscover what bonded you together in the first place) with Michael Douglas and Kathleen Turner. Then watch "Fatal Attraction" ( grass in not always greener) with Michael Douglas and Glenn Close.

The cost of these two Netflix rentals (and separate vacations) saved my marriage. Scared straight.

Good advice. The OP should watch the films with his wife. Both of them should get scared together and discuss what it means to them.

Victoria

Rather than scaring the wife, they will be empowering. Better for the husband to watch them alone and resolve to be the man she married. If she still dumps him, he'll be able to hit the ground running.....

If a man avoided "scaring me," "resolved to be the man," and conveyed information to me by proxy rather than directly -- these actions alone would be grounds for a divorce.

Victoria

Didn't say "be the man", I said "be the man she married" - kinda different. You may not understand the reference to the movies.

"War of the Roses" shows a marriage violently deteriorating. The advice from the narrating lawyer (Danny DeVito) is for a husband to try to rekindle the original attraction rather than be subject to the type of horrors depicted in the film.

"Fatal Attraction" shows the potential consequences of straying. Better to stick with the Mrs.

For me, the take home message of both films (which are both from a heterosexual man's POV, BTW) is that specifically men (also) must work hard to maintain a marriage. For women there might be better cinematic choices to accomplish a similar end - probably all starring Hugh Grant.

[VictoriaF]

Watch "War of the Roses" (rediscover what bonded you together in the first place) with Michael Douglas and Kathleen Turner. Then watch "Fatal Attraction" ( grass in not always greener) with Michael Douglas and Glenn Close.

The cost of these two Netflix rentals (and separate vacations) saved my marriage. Scared straight.

Good advice. The OP should watch the films with his wife. Both of them should get scared together and discuss what it means to them.

Victoria

Rather than scaring the wife, they will be empowering. Better for the husband to watch them alone and resolve to be the man she married. If she still dumps him, he'll be able to hit the ground running.....

If a man avoided "scaring me," "resolved to be the man," and conveyed information to me by proxy rather than directly -- these actions alone would be grounds for a divorce.

Victoria

Didn't say "be the man", I said "be the man she married" - kinda different.

I am attuned to the language nuances and understand the difference between "be the man" and "be the man she married." But we don't know what kind of a man the OP's wife has married. Did she marry a take-charge invincible man or a humble man with strengths and weaknesses? Does she still want the same kind of a man?

You may not understand the reference to the movies.

"War of the Roses" shows a marriage violently deteriorating. The advice from the narrating lawyer (Danny DeVito) is for a husband to try to rekindle the original attraction rather than be subject to the type of horrors depicted in the film.

"Fatal Attraction" shows the potential consequences of straying. Better to stick with the Mrs.

For me, the take home message of both films (which are both from a heterosexual man's POV, BTW) is that specifically men (also) must work hard to maintain a marriage. For women there might be better cinematic choices to accomplish a similar end - probably all starring Hugh Grant.

I watched both films and found both of them emotionally powerful. War of the Roses reminds you how quickly relationships can deteriorate into a full-blown warfare. After watching it, most people would do their best to avoid starting on that path. Fatal Attraction is particularly scary to men. As a woman I felt sorry for the guy and had a smug feeling how much better I was than the female protagonist. This film could provide the OP with an opportunity to reconfirm his commitment to his wife.

The reason I suggested that the OP and his wife watch films together is that it's a bonding experience. You must spend time with people, face to face. You must have topics of mutual interest to discuss. Emotionally charged films, of mutual interest, have power to create bonding at a low price and time expense.

Victoria

[DanMahowny]

Marriage councilors are a waste of time, money.

Marriage councilor's divorce rate is higher than the general population. No different than hiring a bankrupt financial advisor, or a fat personal trainer. Therapists, in general, are losers, and shouldn't be "helping" anyone. Check it out

Save time; just get divorced. Free yourself.

[THY4373]

Being a single guy, I am pretty clueless about such things but I have observed some things over many years.

Divorce in my mind is the absolute last resort. It is just devastating to families and devastating to eight year old kids who really want the stability of a home and the stability of mom and dad. Unless there is abuse or if the other spouse absolutely wants out, my bias would be to try and stick it out. Divorce not only tears the immediate family apart but also the extended family. It is also financially devastating.

I'll just provide the counter point you can have a good divorce. I won't say it was easy but my divorce was good and neither myself or nor my ex regret it at all. Our son, my ex and I have all flourished after our divorce. We still do things together as a family (ex, son and me). We cooperate closely on raising our son who we split 50/50 and we live near each other so transfers are easy. My wife and I were both high earners and lived frugally so we were able to divorce and both be financially in great shape post divorce. We did a collaborative divorce which kept our costs of divorce down. Divorces are frequently bad because one or both parties wants it to be so. But if you work together to find an amicable and fair solution it can be a positive experience in the end. I am so much happier now than I was in most of the 16 years of my marriage and my ex is similar. I would try to avoid divorce of course but sometimes it is the right decision and it can be a positive (though not an easy) one.

[GoldStar]

Marriage councilors are a waste of time, money.

Marriage councilor's divorce rate is higher than the general population. No different than hiring a bankrupt financial advisor, or a fat personal trainer. Therapists, in general, are losers, and shouldn't be "helping" anyone. Check it out

Save time; just get divorced. Free yourself.

Wow. I take it you are divorced? ...and had bad experiences with councilors?
Do you have any statistics on these claims about divorce rates, etc.?