ICE or a hybrid car

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Calico
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ICE or a hybrid car

Post by Calico » Fri Aug 17, 2018 10:21 am

I plan years ahead when buying a new car. My current car is 14 years old and my hope is it that it will last a few more years (although I plan on giving it to my daughter to drive when she turns 16 in two years).

I did my homework and narrowed down the car I want to the Mazda 3, hatchback, manual transmission (most likely. It doesn't save money any more on gas, but they are cheaper to maintain and repair. Plus, I like driving stick). Since the used price is so close to new, I figured I would just buy it new. I am going to keep it until I run it into the ground like I am doing with my current car. I've been saving up money for the planned purchase in a few years.

But lately I've been reading articles about how gasoline engines are going to be phased out. My state hopes to increase the number of electric cars. Since I plan on keeping whatever car I buy for as long as possible, I wonder if I should be looking to these cars instead. But then again, the technology seems to be changing so rapidly and all this is just hope and plans, nothing concrete. I wonder if it's a wise idea

A quick search I realized the used prices for hybrids seem to be a little better than the used prices for internal combustion engine (ICE) cars. But even those used hybrids are more expensive than or almost as expensive as a new ICE Mazda 3.

Anyway, I just wanted to see what people think of the changing technology. If that impacts what kind of car they think they might get. And if there are any red flags I should look at before even considering a used hybrid.

bloom2708
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Re: ICE or a hybrid car

Post by bloom2708 » Fri Aug 17, 2018 10:32 am

I am a fan of the plug-in hybrids. The tech is pretty solid and there are some deep discounts. I'm not really sure why.

Check out a 2016 or 2017 Ford Fusion Hybrid or Energi (plug-in). We got a 2017 Fusion Energi with under 20k miles for $19,900. It was the Titanium version with all the features (lane assist, adaptive cruise, blind spot, etc). You do lose some trunk space because of the batteries. This may be why they are discounted. Not sure.

The Energi has a 20-24 mile all electric battery. My wife drives this car and can do school drop offs, shopping trips and in town driving in electric mode. You can do "EV later" mode if traveling on the highway. This saves the electric battery and uses the hybrid battery for assist. Once the Energi battery is used, then it is a regular hybrid. The hybrid battery kicks in during acceleration, passing, going uphill, stopped in traffic, etc.

It costs about 80 cents to charge each night for us (11 cents/KWh). The Fusion and C-Max are both smooth riding cars. C-Max is a bit quirkier looking.

Something to consider when you look at the hybrids out there. Camry, Prius (Prime and regular) and others. You have to be able to justify the extra cost with a discount. The gas savings alone won't do it. But, there is a fun factor to driving one of these. We had a 2013 Ford C-Max Energi that my wife drove to 130k miles before this. Very good "in town" buzz around car.

If you drive extended periods at highway speed, the hybrid loses its value. So maybe that is your starting point. City/in town driving or Highway/Interstate driving?
Last edited by bloom2708 on Fri Aug 17, 2018 2:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Beach
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Re: ICE or a hybrid car

Post by Beach » Fri Aug 17, 2018 1:53 pm

I switched to a Prius last year (non plug in, just normal hybrid). I have been pleasantly surprised and consistently average over 50mpg. It can be peppy in the power mode but you still know its a Prius. I know I could have a potential $1k expense for battery replacement at any point but it may or may not ever happen. The car is totally maintenance free for the most part.

The best part is I got it for half price of a brand new one since it had 50K miles on a 2 year old car. All that means is the guy who owned it before me just took lots of road trips...easy on the engine.

I spent a grand on ripping out the cloth seats and got leather, heated seats in its place. Best decision ever.

TravelGeek
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Re: ICE or a hybrid car

Post by TravelGeek » Fri Aug 17, 2018 1:58 pm

Beach wrote:
Fri Aug 17, 2018 1:53 pm
I switched to a Prius last year (non plug in, just normal hybrid). I have been pleasantly surprised and consistently average over 50mpg. It can be peppy in the power mode but you still know its a Prius. I know I could have a potential $1k expense for battery replacement at any point but it may or may not ever happen. The car is totally maintenance free for the most part.

The best part is I got it for half price of a brand new one since it had 50K miles on a 2 year old car. All that means is the guy who owned it before me just took lots of road trips...easy on the engine.
Didn't the 8 yr/100,000k mile warranty transfer to you from the original owner?
Calico wrote:
Fri Aug 17, 2018 10:21 am
I plan years ahead when buying a new car. My current car is 14 years old and my hope is it that it will last a few more years (although I plan on giving it to my daughter to drive when she turns 16 in two years).
Lots of things can and will change in the next few years. I wouldn't plan years ahead at this point.

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jharkin
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Re: ICE or a hybrid car

Post by jharkin » Fri Aug 17, 2018 2:06 pm

Sooner or later somebody is going to come into this thread and declare that in 5 years we will all be riding in driverless Ubers and personal car ownerhsip is ending.

Usually that somebody lives in Manhattan or similar.

Yes, ICEs are going away eventually, but you are not going to replace infrastructure built up over a century and the 200 odd million ICE cards on the road overnight. I've toyed with the idea of getting a hybrid or plug in... but I just like driving too much. Thinking for the next car I may get the new Accord Sport 2.0T. Its one of the few sedans still available with a stick shift and I figure its my last chance to get a fun to drive car.... Next car after that will be the 2030s most likely and by then I do expect everything to be hybrid and electric. I also expect htat by then the infrastructure will be in place that range anxiety and waiting for a charge station to open up wont be the issue they are now...

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DanMahowny
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Re: ICE or a hybrid car

Post by DanMahowny » Fri Aug 17, 2018 2:08 pm

ICE. They perform well, they're cheap, and reliable.

Gasoline remains relatively inexpensive.

Why pay $65k for electric when an equally capable $30k ICE is available???

I wouldn't pay much attention to people that claim ICE is dead. Most of these people have an agenda, and such predictions almost never go as planned.
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TravelGeek
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Re: ICE or a hybrid car

Post by TravelGeek » Fri Aug 17, 2018 2:19 pm

DanMahowny wrote:
Fri Aug 17, 2018 2:08 pm
ICE. They perform well, they're cheap, and reliable.
Describes my LEAF as well.
Gasoline remains relatively inexpensive.
Relatively expensive compared to electricity for me.
Why pay $65k for electric when an equally capable $30k ICE is available???
I paid less than $30k. Not every electric vehicle is a Tesla. :idea:

On the topic of "people with agenda" -- didn't you short TSLA or does my memory fail me? :twisted:

Also, this thread is about ICE vs Hybrid!

mrb09
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Re: ICE or a hybrid car

Post by mrb09 » Fri Aug 17, 2018 2:59 pm

I have a 2014 Prius, my wife has a 2014 Mazda 3. I like the Prius because it is practical (including 10k between oil changes, and less wear and tear on brake pads for regen braking) but the Mazda is way more fun to drive. I wouldn't worry about ICE getting phased out any time soon, and honestly the difference between 30+ mpg and 45+ mpg isn't all that much, I'd pick based on what you like to drive + tolerate for maintenance.

If you're looking a pure electric car, that might have some value w/ longer maintenance intervals and less time at gas pump, and less guilt about carbon footprint (which is personal, but an actual deal for me -- YMMV, pun intended).

adamthesmythe
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Re: ICE or a hybrid car

Post by adamthesmythe » Fri Aug 17, 2018 3:11 pm

You might want to have a look at this article, in a magazine for ELECTRICAL engineers

https://spectrum.ieee.org/transportatio ... combustion

Personally I'll believe the internal combustion engine is on its way out when I start seeing charging stations on the highways.

Until then- I think the choice depends on your driving patterns.

delamer
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Re: ICE or a hybrid car

Post by delamer » Fri Aug 17, 2018 3:17 pm

bloom2708 wrote:
Fri Aug 17, 2018 10:32 am
I am a fan of the plug-in hybrids. The tech is pretty solid and there are some deep discounts. I'm not really sure why.

Check out a 2016 or 2017 Ford Fusion Hybrid or Energi (plug-in). We got a 2017 Fusion Energi with under 20k miles for $19,900. It was the Titanium version with all the features (lane assist, adaptive cruise, blind spot, etc). You do lose some trunk space because of the batteries. This may be why they are discounted. Not sure.

The Energi has a 20-24 mile all electric battery. My wife drives this car and can do school drop offs, shopping trips and in town driving in electric mode. You can do "EV later" mode if traveling on the highway. This saves the electric battery and uses the hybrid battery for assist. Once the Energi battery is used, then it is a regular hybrid. The hybrid battery kicks in during acceleration, passing, going uphill, stopped in traffic, etc.

It costs about 80 cents to charge each night for us (11 cents/KWh). The Fusion and C-Max are both smooth riding cars. C-Max is a bit quirkier looking.

Something to consider when you look at the hybrids out there. Camry, Prius (Prime and regular) and others. You have to be able to justify the extra cost with a discount. The gas savings alone won't do it. But, there is a fun factor to driving one of these. We had a 2013 Ford C-Max Energi that my wife drove to 130k miles before this. Very good "in town" buzz around car.

If you drive extended periods at highway speed, the hybrid loses its value. So maybe that is your starting point. City/in town driving or Highway/Interstate driving?
Are you charging at night in your garage? If so, did you have to do any electrical upgrades in order to do so?

I am considering a plug-in, but the ability to charge it is a concern.

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eye.surgeon
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Re: ICE or a hybrid car

Post by eye.surgeon » Fri Aug 17, 2018 3:19 pm

I've been driving a Tesla for 4 years but EVs aren't taking over any time soon. Get an ICE unless you WANT an EV.
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daheld
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Re: ICE or a hybrid car

Post by daheld » Fri Aug 17, 2018 3:19 pm

Just anecdotally, I'll offer that I have a 2016 Mazda6 GT. I love it. It is as luxurious as cars that sell for twice the price. Ride is tight and sporty, yet comfortable, and personally, I think the exterior styling makes it one of the most attractive cars on the road.

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Re: ICE or a hybrid car

Post by Jack FFR1846 » Fri Aug 17, 2018 3:26 pm

You talk about liking driving a manual transmission. You're intrigued with driving something with electric drive. There are electric cars, hybrids, plug in hybrids and one car that gives you the fun of a manual and the assist of electric. That's the Honda CR-Z. It was made with an available 6 speed manual transmission that feels to me like what's in the Civic Si. To me, the car feels agile, fun and handles quite well. The electric mode can seemlessly be called upon to assist and there's regen braking and stop/start capability. It's only a 2 seater, however, so won't have the practicality of a 4 door Mazda 3.
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bloom2708
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Re: ICE or a hybrid car

Post by bloom2708 » Fri Aug 17, 2018 3:29 pm

delamer wrote:
Fri Aug 17, 2018 3:17 pm

Are you charging at night in your garage? If so, did you have to do any electrical upgrades in order to do so?

I am considering a plug-in, but the ability to charge it is a concern.
We use 120v, regular charger. It takes ~5.5 hours from empty. The car tells you how long to full charge. It would be about 1/2 that time with a 240v charger. Unfortunately we do not have 220 in the garage, so that would be extra to wire it up.

If I did do something, I would also put in off-peak. Our electric company offers a electric car rate if you charge in the middle of the night.

I just plug it in around 9 or 10 when I am shutting things down for the night. I am very impressed with this 2017 Fusion Energi Titanium. Just a sharp car and it drives very nice.
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delamer
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Re: ICE or a hybrid car

Post by delamer » Fri Aug 17, 2018 3:37 pm

bloom2708 wrote:
Fri Aug 17, 2018 3:29 pm
delamer wrote:
Fri Aug 17, 2018 3:17 pm
bloom2708 wrote:
Fri Aug 17, 2018 10:32 am
I am a fan of the plug-in hybrids. The tech is pretty solid and there are some deep discounts. I'm not really sure why.

Check out a 2016 or 2017 Ford Fusion Hybrid or Energi (plug-in). We got a 2017 Fusion Energi with under 20k miles for $19,900. It was the Titanium version with all the features (lane assist, adaptive cruise, blind spot, etc). You do lose some trunk space because of the batteries. This may be why they are discounted. Not sure.

The Energi has a 20-24 mile all electric battery. My wife drives this car and can do school drop offs, shopping trips and in town driving in electric mode. You can do "EV later" mode if traveling on the highway. This saves the electric battery and uses the hybrid battery for assist. Once the Energi battery is used, then it is a regular hybrid. The hybrid battery kicks in during acceleration, passing, going uphill, stopped in traffic, etc.

It costs about 80 cents to charge each night for us (11 cents/KWh). The Fusion and C-Max are both smooth riding cars. C-Max is a bit quirkier looking.

Something to consider when you look at the hybrids out there. Camry, Prius (Prime and regular) and others. You have to be able to justify the extra cost with a discount. The gas savings alone won't do it. But, there is a fun factor to driving one of these. We had a 2013 Ford C-Max Energi that my wife drove to 130k miles before this. Very good "in town" buzz around car.

If you drive extended periods at highway speed, the hybrid loses its value. So maybe that is your starting point. City/in town driving or Highway/Interstate driving?
Are you charging at night in your garage? If so, did you have to do any electrical upgrades in order to do so?

I am considering a plug-in, but the ability to charge it is a concern.
We use 120v, regular charger. It takes ~5 hours from empty. The car tells you how long to full charge. It would be about 1/2 that time with a 240v charger. Unfortunately we do not have 220 in the garage, so that would be extra to wire it up.

If I did do something, I would also put in off-peak. Our electric company offers a electric car rate if you charge in the middle of the night.

I just plug it in around 9 or 10 when I am shutting things down for the night. I am very impressed with this 2017 Fusion Energi Titanium. Just a sharp car and it drives very nice.
Thanks very much. We don’t have 220V in the garage either.

Were there other plug-ins that you considered?

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Re: ICE or a hybrid car

Post by H-Town » Fri Aug 17, 2018 3:45 pm

Calico wrote:
Fri Aug 17, 2018 10:21 am
Anyway, I just wanted to see what people think of the changing technology. If that impacts what kind of car they think they might get. And if there are any red flags I should look at before even considering a used hybrid.
Just stick with ICE and go with V6 or V8 engine if you can. They have a long way to go before it's cheaper to buy a hybrid or electric car, if all else is equal.

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bloom2708
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Re: ICE or a hybrid car

Post by bloom2708 » Fri Aug 17, 2018 3:46 pm

delamer wrote:
Fri Aug 17, 2018 3:37 pm

Thanks very much. We don’t have 220V in the garage either.

Were there other plug-ins that you considered?
We drove a Prius Prime Plug-in. I liked it, but it was smaller inside and much more. Only new available. Even with the Fed tax credit. There were no used ones available.

I drove a Kia Niro. They have both a hybrid and plug-in version. That is a 1st year model car. The back hatch was very small. I'm not sure I would risk it, but they do have a very good warranty.

With our cold/long winters we didn't think a Leaf would work, but I did drive one. They are nice, but as a second car, it would limit us to one "long trip" vehicle.

I liked the Toyota Avalon Hybrid we drove. It was about $4k more than the Fusion for 1-2 years older in that 30k mile range. We didn't drive a Camry Hybrid this time.

My wife liked the C-Max Energi so much that we kind of went down that path but wanted to try other options. We are kind of out in the sticks up here, so it is possible we get a discount due to just being far away from a larger area (minneapolis).
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deikel
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Re: ICE or a hybrid car

Post by deikel » Fri Aug 17, 2018 3:48 pm

couple of thoughts in no order at all:

- if your time horizon is 15 years out, you can buy pretty much anything you want. ICE will still be around at that time and plenty, electric cars will be around more than they are today - but they won't take over the world for a while and hybrids might start to become obsolete since people will go either or
- if you like stick shift, you should absolutely try an all electric vehicle - you will love the go cart like feeling and maybe that will sell you an all electric car
- all electric are either still way to expensive (Tesla, Chevy, BMW) or they have a city range only (Leaf), in 16 years you can expect to buy an all electric with good range as a 2 year used car with the kinks worked out. I think you are a generation away from an all electric
- hybrid only makes sense if the fuel prices are high since their initial cost is prohibitive, the technology combines both electric and ICE and hence can have both failing...IMO, its the worst of both worlds.
- depending on your region, hybrid and all electric have perks (live HOV lane access or lower toll rate) that might make them much more attractive than other arguments alone would suggest.
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Beach
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Re: ICE or a hybrid car

Post by Beach » Mon Aug 20, 2018 9:32 am

TravelGeek wrote:
Fri Aug 17, 2018 1:58 pm
Beach wrote:
Fri Aug 17, 2018 1:53 pm
I switched to a Prius last year (non plug in, just normal hybrid). I have been pleasantly surprised and consistently average over 50mpg. It can be peppy in the power mode but you still know its a Prius. I know I could have a potential $1k expense for battery replacement at any point but it may or may not ever happen. The car is totally maintenance free for the most part.

The best part is I got it for half price of a brand new one since it had 50K miles on a 2 year old car. All that means is the guy who owned it before me just took lots of road trips...easy on the engine.
Didn't the 8 yr/100,000k mile warranty transfer to you from the original owner?
Probably? Guess I'll find out if its covered when and if it happens.

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Re: ICE or a hybrid car

Post by mmmodem » Mon Aug 20, 2018 9:51 am

In 2012, a Skyactiv Mazda 3 hatchback was at the top of my list for purchase as it was the sportiest economy vehicle with decent fuel economy. Then a 2012 Toyota Prius plug in came out with generous state and federal rebates and free solo HOV access. I hated the idea of driving a soulless life sucking smug Prius but the incentives made too much sense and I bought it. I charged my vehicle using a plain old 110v outlet in the garage.

6 years later I've since purchased a second Prius and now currently own a Ford Escape hybrid. I would still have the plug in Prius but I needed AWD. Consider me converted on hybrids. I don't think ICE will be outdated any time soon so I will not have any issues buying a Mazda 3 today. However, the savings on hybrids are real. I was a naysayer 6 years ago too about not saving money, they are slow, or they are unreliable. It wasn't true then and it isn't true now. The Chevy Volt is one of their more reliable vehicles. Few would say a Tesla is slow. A Prius C can be had for under $20k.

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Re: ICE or a hybrid car

Post by cadreamer2015 » Mon Aug 20, 2018 9:58 am

Even if your state bans the sale of ICE cars in 5 years (highly unlikely), there will still be plenty of ICE cars on the road 20 years from now. Your choice between an ICE car and a hybrid should not be influenced by whatever you read about potential future policies on "phasing out" ICE cars.
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Calico
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Re: ICE or a hybrid car

Post by Calico » Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:15 am

Thanks for the input everyone. I am still undecided, but it's all something to consider. I am probably still leaning towards ICE. But I will check out some hybrid cars as well.

By the way, I don't think I will go all electric. Granted, the way I drive and where I live now, I probably could make it work. I take short hops and there are recharging stations everywhere, even the garage of my work building. I do such little driving that, with my current old Pontiac Vibe, I only need to fill the tank once every two weeks.

But I still make longer trips to visit family and drive to beaches, parks, etc a couple of times a month. Plus, I hope to move back home (rural) in about 5 years. Demands on a car will be different, and I probably would need the flexible of a hybrid, not all electric as I can not afford a Tesla or BMW for the range. Let me rephrase that, I am sure someone would lease of give me a loan, but it would not be wise. Mazda 3 is (under $25k) is my price range.

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Re: ICE or a hybrid car

Post by iamlucky13 » Mon Aug 20, 2018 11:48 am

You did not mention fuel economy being a high priority to you. It does sound like cost is important to you, so you should compare the price of similar vehicles and expected fuel savings over a reasonable anticipated life. Actually, since I will be considering a similar question in the not too distant future, here's my first estimate.

The following numbers are only based on base MSRP, and using $3.25/gallon (assuming moderate fuel price inflation). I'm assuming 150,000 miles life. I used EPA combined MPG figures. I did not check what subsidies are available for hybrids.

Mazda 3: $18,095 + 150,000 miles / 31mpg * $3.25/gal =
$33,821 lifetime purchase + fuel cost ($0.225 / mile)

Toyota Prius: $23,475 + 150,000 miles / 52mpg * $3.25/gal =
$32,850 lifetime purchase + fuel cost ($0.219 / mile)

So basic costs are very close (3% difference), slightly in the favor of the Prius for these two specific examples.

You did mention you like driving a manual transmission. With costs so close, I think the "user interface" for a tool you will like use for 3000-4000 hours over its life is a very reasonable decision criteria, at least as one of several factors to consider like overall driving experience and reliability reputation.

Dottie57
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Re: ICE or a hybrid car

Post by Dottie57 » Mon Aug 20, 2018 12:21 pm

I bought a regular ICE Camry in April. I formerly had a Camry Hybrid. I would have gone Hybrid this time too, but it was 3k more.. I had federal credit before..

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Re: ICE or a hybrid car

Post by monkey_business » Mon Aug 20, 2018 12:24 pm

The new Honda Insight might be an option as well. It's a tad more expensive than the Mazda 3 hatch, but not by much.

Calico
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Re: ICE or a hybrid car

Post by Calico » Mon Aug 20, 2018 12:40 pm

iamlucky13 wrote:
Mon Aug 20, 2018 11:48 am
You did not mention fuel economy being a high priority to you. It does sound like cost is important to you, so you should compare the price of similar vehicles and expected fuel savings over a reasonable anticipated life. Actually, since I will be considering a similar question in the not too distant future, here's my first estimate.

The following numbers are only based on base MSRP, and using $3.25/gallon (assuming moderate fuel price inflation). I'm assuming 150,000 miles life. I used EPA combined MPG figures. I did not check what subsidies are available for hybrids.

Mazda 3: $18,095 + 150,000 miles / 31mpg * $3.25/gal =
$33,821 lifetime purchase + fuel cost ($0.225 / mile)

Toyota Prius: $23,475 + 150,000 miles / 52mpg * $3.25/gal =
$32,850 lifetime purchase + fuel cost ($0.219 / mile)

So basic costs are very close (3% difference), slightly in the favor of the Prius for these two specific examples.

You did mention you like driving a manual transmission. With costs so close, I think the "user interface" for a tool you will like use for 3000-4000 hours over its life is a very reasonable decision criteria, at least as one of several factors to consider like overall driving experience and reliability reputation.
Thanks! That is a great way of looking at things. I am concerned mainly with overall cost, not so much gas mileage as I tend not to put many miles on a car as it is (one reason my current car --Vibe with is the same engine as a Corolla--is still running strong at 14 years old is that it only has 150k on it). If it weren't for my daughter needing a car in a couple of years (not only for her, but to make my life easier), I would probably still be driving it.

I am going to try and figure out insurance and maintenance as well to add to the numbers. My guess is they will still be close that I might go with the manual transmission just because I really want one again (test drove a manual Mazda and loved it).

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Re: ICE or a hybrid car

Post by TBillT » Mon Aug 20, 2018 12:44 pm

2006 Prius here, best car ever for low cost, reliability, good cargo space, and with a roof rack/box can rival minivan hauling capacity in a pinch.

Hybrids don't use brakes much, so nothing ever goes bad but heavily used hybrids have concerns over HV battery replacement costs.

Plug-ins not currently for me, but hybrids get no respect from gov'ts for savings ( despite 50+ MPG, regulators want to push plug-ins). If there was a plug-in offering equal space, cost, range, practicality, would be fine. Prius Prime plug-in for example takes away a lot of cargo space, basically because Toyota has not yet assigned priority to re-designing the Prime (it is just a Prius chasis with a big batt squeezed in the back).

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Re: ICE or a hybrid car

Post by iamlucky13 » Mon Aug 20, 2018 1:25 pm

Calico wrote:
Mon Aug 20, 2018 12:40 pm
My guess is they will still be close that I might go with the manual transmission just because I really want one again (test drove a manual Mazda and loved it).
Excellent. Test drive really is the final word on the driving experience portion of your buying decision. Might as well test drive a hybrid, too, to be thorough.

RootSki
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Re: ICE or a hybrid car

Post by RootSki » Mon Aug 20, 2018 7:50 pm

I too plan my auto purchasing 1-2 years out. I’m considering an twin-engine eAWD hybrid but need to understand it’s off the line and long highway performance on pure battery mode. I had a 2008 Ford Escape Hybrid and I got great mpg with it.

GoofyOne
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Re: ICE or a hybrid car

Post by GoofyOne » Tue Aug 21, 2018 6:12 am

I am waiting for more information on the Subaru XV/Crosstrek Hybrid. Should hopefully be out in a couple of months. Subaru borrowed some hybrid technology from Toyota. Hopefully mileage and costs are attractive.

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Re: ICE or a hybrid car

Post by NewTimes » Tue Aug 21, 2018 7:09 am

bloom2708 wrote:
Fri Aug 17, 2018 10:32 am
I am a fan of the plug-in hybrids. The tech is pretty solid and there are some deep discounts. I'm not really sure why.

Check out a 2016 or 2017 Ford Fusion Hybrid or Energi (plug-in). We got a 2017 Fusion Energi with under 20k miles for $19,900. It was the Titanium version with all the features (lane assist, adaptive cruise, blind spot, etc). You do lose some trunk space because of the batteries. This may be why they are discounted. Not sure.

The Energi has a 20-24 mile all electric battery. My wife drives this car and can do school drop offs, shopping trips and in town driving in electric mode. You can do "EV later" mode if traveling on the highway. This saves the electric battery and uses the hybrid battery for assist. Once the Energi battery is used, then it is a regular hybrid. The hybrid battery kicks in during acceleration, passing, going uphill, stopped in traffic, etc.

It costs about 80 cents to charge each night for us (11 cents/KWh). The Fusion and C-Max are both smooth riding cars. C-Max is a bit quirkier looking.

Something to consider when you look at the hybrids out there. Camry, Prius (Prime and regular) and others. You have to be able to justify the extra cost with a discount. The gas savings alone won't do it. But, there is a fun factor to driving one of these. We had a 2013 Ford C-Max Energi that my wife drove to 130k miles before this. Very good "in town" buzz around car.

If you drive extended periods at highway speed, the hybrid loses its value. So maybe that is your starting point. City/in town driving or Highway/Interstate driving?
I can duplicate your post as I took the same actions you did purchasing a 2017 Ford Fusion Titanium a little over a year ago. I love all the safety features. And with Ford going all SUVs it's likely one can pick up a 2017 or 2018 with an even better price. I did pay $1,100 for an extended warranty as this was my first electric/plug-in hybrid vehicle for the peace of mind. Like your wife, I drive mostly around town on a single charge, and when the battery is used up, it immediately reverts to gas. I have taken one extended trip from FL to VA. I averaged 42 mph driving 70+ miles per hour on the interstate plus local driving as I was on all gas for 10 days. A friend in Ocala, FL had one and his impressed me so much I bought one also. As a Chevy advocate, it was my first Ford I am impressed and I am convinced the electric/electric plug-in hybrid is the way to go, if your driving habits are conducive. I am already contemplating what electric vehicle we will consider in about 5-7 years. I am a convert to this new technology. I know the 20-24 mile range will improve in the future. It meets my needs now.

lazydavid
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Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2016 1:37 pm

Re: ICE or a hybrid car

Post by lazydavid » Tue Aug 21, 2018 8:56 am

Also take a look at the new 2019 Corolla hatch. It has the first all-new 6-speed manual I can remember in a long time, which has rev-matching (previously only seen in sports cars like the Nissan Z) that can be enabled/disabled at will. Initial reviews are that it's quite good. SE stickers for just under $20k, and a "loaded" XSE lists at $23k.

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