My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

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KT785
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by KT785 » Fri Jun 29, 2018 3:18 pm

CULater wrote:
Fri Jun 29, 2018 2:52 pm
. . . . check out the 2019 RAV4 in a few months but might bail sooner if something else comes up on my radar sooner.
Subaru Forester or Mazda CX-5?

smitcat
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by smitcat » Fri Jun 29, 2018 3:20 pm

munemaker wrote:
Fri Jun 29, 2018 2:57 pm
smitcat wrote:
Fri Jun 29, 2018 12:51 pm

Diluted lube oil is not likely doing harm to the engine therefore no higher thna typical metals or conaminants.
...
So the catch 22 is that the engine is a problem but if 'maintained' properly per the handbook it will likely never manifest itself with a failure.
- if the owner is on top of this no failure
- if the owner is not on top of this then he/she is complicitus in the failure
On what basis do you make these statements?
If the owner checks and 'adjusts' his oil level as per the manual there is a low probability of outright engine failure - as can be seen by the OP and others in this thread.
Our CRV's do not have the 1.5T engine but both car manuals state - "recommended to check engine oil level at each fueling".
FWIW - I went through this same lube oil dilution issue with 2 4 stroke outboard engines.

CULater
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by CULater » Fri Jun 29, 2018 3:44 pm

smitcat wrote:
Fri Jun 29, 2018 3:20 pm
munemaker wrote:
Fri Jun 29, 2018 2:57 pm
smitcat wrote:
Fri Jun 29, 2018 12:51 pm

Diluted lube oil is not likely doing harm to the engine therefore no higher thna typical metals or conaminants.
...
So the catch 22 is that the engine is a problem but if 'maintained' properly per the handbook it will likely never manifest itself with a failure.
- if the owner is on top of this no failure
- if the owner is not on top of this then he/she is complicitus in the failure
On what basis do you make these statements?
If the owner checks and 'adjusts' his oil level as per the manual there is a low probability of outright engine failure - as can be seen by the OP and others in this thread.
Our CRV's do not have the 1.5T engine but both car manuals state - "recommended to check engine oil level at each fueling".
FWIW - I went through this same lube oil dilution issue with 2 4 stroke outboard engines.
The higher oil level is due to fuel getting in, so merely lowering the level of the oil/fuel mix that's in there isn't going to help improve the compromised viscosity. Several people on other boards who have discussed this have said the dealer recommends frequent oil changes, and in some instances it's been bad enough that the dealer has offered them pro bono. I find that to be a nuisance, particularly since the "maintenance minder" on these things doesn't indicate the need for an oil change for at least 6,000 miles and often up to 8,000 or 10,000 - just about once a year for many people. My oil level popped up above the overfill mark within 100-200 miles of an oil change. You'll spend more time at the dealer getting oil changes than on the road.
May you have the hindsight to know where you've been, The foresight to know where you're going, And the insight to know when you've gone too far. ~ Irish Blessing

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susa
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by susa » Fri Jun 29, 2018 4:07 pm

Same engine with a recent UOA report posted today

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/u ... ost4800498

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munemaker
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by munemaker » Fri Jun 29, 2018 8:24 pm

susa wrote:
Fri Jun 29, 2018 4:07 pm
Same engine with a recent UOA report posted today

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/u ... ost4800498
A couple strange things about this report:
- It does not say how many miles are on the vehicle or the oil. When I have had analysis done at Blackstone Labs, that info is always on the report.
- The second thing is the oil used is 5W30, where the manufacturer specifies 0W20. I don't think 5W30 is going to cause any problem, but it is not in accordance with the manufacturer's specification. Seems unusual not to follow the manufacturer's recommendations on such a new vehicle.

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munemaker
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by munemaker » Fri Jun 29, 2018 8:31 pm

smitcat wrote:
Fri Jun 29, 2018 3:20 pm

If the owner checks and 'adjusts' his oil level as per the manual there is a low probability of outright engine failure - as can be seen by the OP and others in this thread.
Our CRV's do not have the 1.5T engine but both car manuals state - "recommended to check engine oil level at each fueling".
FWIW - I went through this same lube oil dilution issue with 2 4 stroke outboard engines.
The usual meaning of checking your oil and adjusting the level means adding oil to the sump, not draining some out. I have been driving and around cars for 50 years, and I have never heard of a car where you had to drain out some of the oil to keep it in range. It is a lot more convenient to add a quart here and there than it is to drain a quart out. And if you drain a quart out, the level becomes even more diluted as you drive further.

If you drain some oil out to maintain the level within range, true there will be less likelihood of a catastrophic engine failure. However, there will be increased engine wear with possibly worn rings, bearings, etc.

And yes, I know almost every manual says to check the oil when you refuel. How many times have you seen a hood up at a convenience store gas pump? Very, very rare event.

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by CULater » Fri Jun 29, 2018 9:07 pm

munemaker wrote:
Fri Jun 29, 2018 8:24 pm
susa wrote:
Fri Jun 29, 2018 4:07 pm
Same engine with a recent UOA report posted today

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/u ... ost4800498
A couple strange things about this report:
- It does not say how many miles are on the vehicle or the oil. When I have had analysis done at Blackstone Labs, that info is always on the report.
- The second thing is the oil used is 5W30, where the manufacturer specifies 0W20. I don't think 5W30 is going to cause any problem, but it is not in accordance with the manufacturer's specification. Seems unusual not to follow the manufacturer's recommendations on such a new vehicle.
In some of the posts I've read, people have tried using a higher viscosity oil than 0-20 to see if that lowers fuel dilution in the 1.5T engine. If you do that, you run the risk of voiding the manufacturer's warranty. Another theory is to use premium fuel. I just can't see having to go to non-standard oil or fuel to deal with Honda's mis-designed engine.
May you have the hindsight to know where you've been, The foresight to know where you're going, And the insight to know when you've gone too far. ~ Irish Blessing

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jabberwockOG
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by jabberwockOG » Fri Jun 29, 2018 10:07 pm

CULater wrote:
Fri Jun 29, 2018 9:07 pm
munemaker wrote:
Fri Jun 29, 2018 8:24 pm
susa wrote:
Fri Jun 29, 2018 4:07 pm
Same engine with a recent UOA report posted today

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/u ... ost4800498
A couple strange things about this report:
- It does not say how many miles are on the vehicle or the oil. When I have had analysis done at Blackstone Labs, that info is always on the report.
- The second thing is the oil used is 5W30, where the manufacturer specifies 0W20. I don't think 5W30 is going to cause any problem, but it is not in accordance with the manufacturer's specification. Seems unusual not to follow the manufacturer's recommendations on such a new vehicle.
In some of the posts I've read, people have tried using a higher viscosity oil than 0-20 to see if that lowers fuel dilution in the 1.5T engine. If you do that, you run the risk of voiding the manufacturer's warranty. Another theory is to use premium fuel. I just can't see having to go to non-standard oil or fuel to deal with Honda's mis-designed engine.
Using higher viscosity oil something like 5w30 would have very little effect on a fuel dilution problem of this magnitude.

Changing fuel type could very well change rate of fuel dilution. Using premium fuel would affect the way the ECM sets valve, fuel injection, and spark timing on the engine, so running premium in a modern engine that is set up to run regular but has a fuel dilution issue could have a positive or negative effect on the amount of unburned fuel that is going past the rings and into the oil. Hard to predict if problem gets better or worse without trying it with a specific high octane rated gas. If I had one of these cars I'd definitely try running a high octane premium to see if that lessens the problem. Honda has really (&*^% the pooch on this one.

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by smitcat » Sat Jun 30, 2018 7:01 am

munemaker wrote:
Fri Jun 29, 2018 8:31 pm
smitcat wrote:
Fri Jun 29, 2018 3:20 pm

If the owner checks and 'adjusts' his oil level as per the manual there is a low probability of outright engine failure - as can be seen by the OP and others in this thread.
Our CRV's do not have the 1.5T engine but both car manuals state - "recommended to check engine oil level at each fueling".
FWIW - I went through this same lube oil dilution issue with 2 4 stroke outboard engines.
The usual meaning of checking your oil and adjusting the level means adding oil to the sump, not draining some out. I have been driving and around cars for 50 years, and I have never heard of a car where you had to drain out some of the oil to keep it in range. It is a lot more convenient to add a quart here and there than it is to drain a quart out. And if you drain a quart out, the level becomes even more diluted as you drive further.

If you drain some oil out to maintain the level within range, true there will be less likelihood of a catastrophic engine failure. However, there will be increased engine wear with possibly worn rings, bearings, etc.

And yes, I know almost every manual says to check the oil when you refuel. How many times have you seen a hood up at a convenience store gas pump? Very, very rare event.
I believe you are correct on all counts -
-Draining oil out is not common at all
-Draining will leave a diluted base
-checking oil at fuel stops is almost never done

The post was about the ack of cvvalue of an oil test for an engine that already has a known problem. The maunuals indicating checking oil level and adjusting it generlally covers the manufacturer for catastrphic failures.
Should they fix this problem? Yes absolutely. Are they fixing this problem?- apparently not.
From reading all the post at the Honda site it sounds much like the Yamaha outboad problem with their 4 stroke 115 and 150's.
-It is a known lube oil dilution problem.
- the dilution problem itself rarely generates a failure
- increased wear is worse on lighly utlized engines (trolling etc)
- when use heavily where the wear will be increased the gas in dilution burns off
- maufacturer indicates level checks paramount
- then indicates if the oil is high a short change is suggested or at least an oillevel adjustment
- if/when the oil level gets near the crank rotation immediate oil foaming occurrs leading to a real engine failure
- engine failure attributed to high oil level or lack of oil is declned by manufacturer

Honda should deal with this since they are well aware of the dilution situation. They are not, proving that the oil is diluted may serve as some cathartic affect but I see no way that it will help correct the OP's or anyone else situation since Honda is well aware of the 'defect'.
Question for anyone who knows - Does Honda now have a corrective action for this condition and what is that corrective action? Can it be refitted to existing engines in total or at least in part.

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by susa » Sat Jun 30, 2018 3:04 pm

munemaker wrote: - The second thing is the oil used is 5W30, where the manufacturer specifies 0W20.
We (extended family) drive Hondas on 3 continents (AUS, EU, USA) and have same engines, same model years, same cars (Accords, Civics, Ridgelines, CRVs) with wide recommendations in same climate conditions. Thus, in AUS we are OK with 0W-40 or 5W-40, in EU we are OK with 10W-30 or 5W-30 and USA is 0W-20.

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by Dagwood » Tue Jul 03, 2018 4:46 am

Not much an owner can do here until Honda announces a fix but to change the oil more frequently to protect the engine.

Also, realize that this is the cost of CAFE standards being raised so high. Carmakers are making engineering decisions in the name of fuel economy that pose significant reliability related risk for those of us who keep cars a long time. Eight, nine, and 10 speed transmissions, auto start and stop, and the extensive use of plastics, particularly in the cooling system, are all things that concern me as someone who keeps cars for a while. This stuff is not new for Honda either, as it had issues with the VCM in the V6 motors as well and the 9 speed in the Pilot seems to be an issue as well. Prior J series motors without VCM, as well as the prior K series four cylinders that lacked turbos and direct injection, were robust motors that lasted hundreds of thousands of miles.

I am curious to see what Toyota does with the new RAV, engine wise.

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munemaker
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by munemaker » Tue Jul 03, 2018 8:57 am

susa wrote:
Sat Jun 30, 2018 3:04 pm
munemaker wrote: - The second thing is the oil used is 5W30, where the manufacturer specifies 0W20.
We (extended family) drive Hondas on 3 continents (AUS, EU, USA) and have same engines, same model years, same cars (Accords, Civics, Ridgelines, CRVs) with wide recommendations in same climate conditions. Thus, in AUS we are OK with 0W-40 or 5W-40, in EU we are OK with 10W-30 or 5W-30 and USA is 0W-20.
Interesting. I had read this before elsewhere. Makes me question why I am using 0W20.

g2morrow
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by g2morrow » Wed Jul 18, 2018 8:52 am

Jack FFR1846 wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 2:05 pm
g2morrow wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 8:34 am
So does anyone know if this just with the CRV 1.5T engine or the 1.5T engine in general? cause they have a lot of civics with the 1.5T engine. (including mine)
1.5T engine with direct injection and cylinder deactivation. I don't know the Honda lineup and what engines are in what cars these days, so can't help further.
hmmm, its the same engine but with different electronic profiles. the CRV uses more turbo boost and cylinder deactivation. From what I know the Civic does not. I have read anecdotal cases of higher boost and cold weather causing issues like this. I'll keep an eye on my oil non the less. Thanks

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by CULater » Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:36 am

g2morrow wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 8:52 am
Jack FFR1846 wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 2:05 pm
g2morrow wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 8:34 am
So does anyone know if this just with the CRV 1.5T engine or the 1.5T engine in general? cause they have a lot of civics with the 1.5T engine. (including mine)
1.5T engine with direct injection and cylinder deactivation. I don't know the Honda lineup and what engines are in what cars these days, so can't help further.
hmmm, its the same engine but with different electronic profiles. the CRV uses more turbo boost and cylinder deactivation. From what I know the Civic does not. I have read anecdotal cases of higher boost and cold weather causing issues like this. I'll keep an eye on my oil non the less. Thanks
CRV doesn't use cylinder deactivation to my knowledge.
May you have the hindsight to know where you've been, The foresight to know where you're going, And the insight to know when you've gone too far. ~ Irish Blessing

g2morrow
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by g2morrow » Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:19 am

CULater wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:36 am
g2morrow wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 8:52 am
Jack FFR1846 wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 2:05 pm
g2morrow wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 8:34 am
So does anyone know if this just with the CRV 1.5T engine or the 1.5T engine in general? cause they have a lot of civics with the 1.5T engine. (including mine)
1.5T engine with direct injection and cylinder deactivation. I don't know the Honda lineup and what engines are in what cars these days, so can't help further.
hmmm, its the same engine but with different electronic profiles. the CRV uses more turbo boost and cylinder deactivation. From what I know the Civic does not. I have read anecdotal cases of higher boost and cold weather causing issues like this. I'll keep an eye on my oil non the less. Thanks
CRV doesn't use cylinder deactivation to my knowledge.
You're right - it might be better off if it did given the situation :happy

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by Joel » Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:57 pm

Posting to follow. Owner of a 2018 Civic Hatchback with this turbo engine. Living in the Sacramento area, so primarily dealing with warmer weather.

I’ve always changed my own oil, but I think with this car I will be taking it to the dealership to have well documented records until there is resolution on this issue.

Checked the oil as soon as I saw this discussion today. Doesn’t appear to have gas in the oil, but I’ve only owned the car since November and only have 6k miles on it.
My investment policy statement: https://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=190093

freeride
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by freeride » Thu Jul 19, 2018 10:54 am

Is this a problem in the 2018 Accord as well? If so, is it limited to just the 1.5 turbo engine? The accord offers a 2.0 turbo as well. Does anyone know of any issues with the 2.0 turbo engine in the Accord?

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by Lugerhead » Sun Aug 12, 2018 7:00 pm

I bought a new CRV EXL in Nov 2017. Got it about 125 miles from home to dodge the worthless dealer option scam and the next morning just had to check it out. Found the oil level way over full. I’m a retired vehicle technician, 12 years in a dealership and 26 at FedEx. Dropped the panel and drained the oil down to a mark I scribed on the dipstick 1/8th inch below the full dot on the stick. Started watching the oil because I had heard of this dilution problem and to be honest didn’t believe it. By 3600 miles the oil level has risen to the full mark and was very dark for a new engine. Did a one quart drain at 3600 miles and added a fresh quart of 5w20 to help with viscosity. Also switched to 93 octane fuel at that time. Ran it to 5100 miles with no increase on the oil level and did a full oil and filter change.
Sent a sample to Blackstone and it came back with a 1.8 % fuel dilution and the viscosity below the specs for 0w20 oil. Remember I did a 1 quart change at 3600 miles so the dilution was well above 2.0 % at that time, plus the quart I added was 5w20 and it was still under the 0w20 level at 5100 miles. Ran that oil change to 8484 miles with still no increase in the oil level. That’s pushing 5k miles with no increase in the oil level on premium fuel. I sent another oil sample to Blackstone at the 8464 change and it came back with a 1.5% fuel dilution that Blackstone called normal and said “the engine made nice progress”. The viscosity was in the normal range also. I would like to post the oil sample reports but not sure how to. As far as the premium fuel I’m not surprised or disappointed I’m having to pay for premium fuel. This 1.5 engine as a static compression ratio of 10.7:1 which is in the premium fuel needed zone even without the higher dynamic compression ratio caused by the turbo. When I read the specs on this engine I thought how’d they do that? But really don’t think they really did. I’ve never seen a engine benefit more from premium fuel. Drive ability is fantastic along with the fuel mileage. Last oil change it averaged 31.4 over the 3372 miles with me towing a 820 lb boat/trailer 40-60 miles a week. I’ve seen above 40 mpg going to the beach with it averaging 36 for the whole trip.
I’m going to run this oil change 4K miles and do another sample to make sure the viscosity is holding up. May try a 5k if it checks good but with a 3.5 quart capacity that may be a stretch.
Don’t think Honda is the only one that’s having this problem but may be the worse. Maybe they will come up with something but with a lifetime of experience building engines I think it all comes back to compression and enough octane levels in the fuel to make it run without over adjusting the timing of things going on under that hood.

tapotti
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by tapotti » Sun Aug 12, 2018 8:15 pm

So do you think using premium fuel is a big help? I'm starting to do that.

Are you planning on using 0w20 oil in the future?

CULater
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by CULater » Sun Aug 12, 2018 9:54 pm

Lugerhead wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 7:00 pm
I bought a new CRV EXL in Nov 2017. Got it about 125 miles from home to dodge the worthless dealer option scam and the next morning just had to check it out. Found the oil level way over full. I’m a retired vehicle technician, 12 years in a dealership and 26 at FedEx. Dropped the panel and drained the oil down to a mark I scribed on the dipstick 1/8th inch below the full dot on the stick. Started watching the oil because I had heard of this dilution problem and to be honest didn’t believe it. By 3600 miles the oil level has risen to the full mark and was very dark for a new engine. Did a one quart drain at 3600 miles and added a fresh quart of 5w20 to help with viscosity. Also switched to 93 octane fuel at that time. Ran it to 5100 miles with no increase on the oil level and did a full oil and filter change.
Sent a sample to Blackstone and it came back with a 1.8 % fuel dilution and the viscosity below the specs for 0w20 oil. Remember I did a 1 quart change at 3600 miles so the dilution was well above 2.0 % at that time, plus the quart I added was 5w20 and it was still under the 0w20 level at 5100 miles. Ran that oil change to 8484 miles with still no increase in the oil level. That’s pushing 5k miles with no increase in the oil level on premium fuel. I sent another oil sample to Blackstone at the 8464 change and it came back with a 1.5% fuel dilution that Blackstone called normal and said “the engine made nice progress”. The viscosity was in the normal range also. I would like to post the oil sample reports but not sure how to. As far as the premium fuel I’m not surprised or disappointed I’m having to pay for premium fuel. This 1.5 engine as a static compression ratio of 10.7:1 which is in the premium fuel needed zone even without the higher dynamic compression ratio caused by the turbo. When I read the specs on this engine I thought how’d they do that? But really don’t think they really did. I’ve never seen a engine benefit more from premium fuel. Drive ability is fantastic along with the fuel mileage. Last oil change it averaged 31.4 over the 3372 miles with me towing a 820 lb boat/trailer 40-60 miles a week. I’ve seen above 40 mpg going to the beach with it averaging 36 for the whole trip.
I’m going to run this oil change 4K miles and do another sample to make sure the viscosity is holding up. May try a 5k if it checks good but with a 3.5 quart capacity that may be a stretch.
Don’t think Honda is the only one that’s having this problem but may be the worse. Maybe they will come up with something but with a lifetime of experience building engines I think it all comes back to compression and enough octane levels in the fuel to make it run without over adjusting the timing of things going on under that hood.
Thanks for your report. Yep, you are now an official member of the CRV-OD Club. Congratulations! I'm guessing that this is not a cold-weather problem unless you are living close to the Arctic Circle, yes? So much for that crutch. I am frying in Arizona and oil dilution is working just fine. Can't believe premium has helped your problem, but you take what you can get.
May you have the hindsight to know where you've been, The foresight to know where you're going, And the insight to know when you've gone too far. ~ Irish Blessing

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by munemaker » Sun Aug 12, 2018 10:49 pm

Lugerhead wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 7:00 pm
I bought a new CRV EXL in Nov 2017.
Thanks for posting your experience.

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by Lugerhead » Mon Aug 13, 2018 5:19 am

It’s been interesting messing with this fuel dilution in my CRV and glad it’s manageable on my end while Honda works on a fix. I do love the CRV and want it to live a long happy life.
I think it’s going to be a hard pill to swallow for Honda to change the fuel requirements after marketing this vehicle to run on 87 octane. I have two other cars that one has to have 93 octane and the other has a minimum 89 octane so this is not a big deal for me.
As far as the grade oil I’m using, Ive did a mix of 2 quarts 0w20 and topping off with about 1.5 quarts of 5w20 to my scribed mark. Only doing this to make sure the viscosity stays in a acceptable level.
As far as “did the premium fuel fix the problem”, no it didn’t. All engines have some fuel blow by and fuel dilution but not to the degree this engine has had. Think these direct injection engines are just more prone to do this and they also give the mfg multiple ways to tweak the engine tuning for emissions and fuel mileage. There will always be fuel dilution but I’m hoping not to the degree it was for mine at the 3600 mile mark. It was getting serious at that point.
I live in NC and do not have serious cold but does get cold and pretty warm this time of the year. I don’t think the weather has much to do with it.
Going to be interesting this winter to see how it does but I’m feeling it’s going to be fine.

g2morrow
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by g2morrow » Mon Aug 13, 2018 9:03 am

Honda has several variations of the 1.5 turbo engine. Just a feeling but the more boost seems to have more dilution.

Will 82
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by Will 82 » Mon Aug 13, 2018 1:47 pm

I've been a 2017 CRV owner for 1 year. Have put almost 18k miles on it. For some reason I never new about this issue so I'm glad I found this thread. I did notice a gas smell during the winter months, but haven't noticed it recently (located in southeast PA).

How concerned should I be? What steps should I take going forward?

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by inbox788 » Mon Aug 13, 2018 6:43 pm

CULater wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 9:54 pm
Lugerhead wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 7:00 pm
I bought a new CRV EXL in Nov 2017. Got it about 125 miles from home to dodge the worthless dealer option scam and the next morning just had to check it out. Found the oil level way over full. I’m a retired vehicle technician, 12 years in a dealership and 26 at FedEx. Dropped the panel and drained the oil down to a mark I scribed on the dipstick 1/8th inch below the full dot on the stick. Started watching the oil because I had heard of this dilution problem and to be honest didn’t believe it. By 3600 miles the oil level has risen to the full mark and was very dark for a new engine. Did a one quart drain at 3600 miles and added a fresh quart of 5w20 to help with viscosity. Also switched to 93 octane fuel at that time. Ran it to 5100 miles with no increase on the oil level and did a full oil and filter change.
Sent a sample to Blackstone and it came back with a 1.8 % fuel dilution and the viscosity below the specs for 0w20 oil. Remember I did a 1 quart change at 3600 miles so the dilution was well above 2.0 % at that time, plus the quart I added was 5w20 and it was still under the 0w20 level at 5100 miles. Ran that oil change to 8484 miles with still no increase in the oil level. That’s pushing 5k miles with no increase in the oil level on premium fuel. I sent another oil sample to Blackstone at the 8464 change and it came back with a 1.5% fuel dilution that Blackstone called normal and said “the engine made nice progress”. The viscosity was in the normal range also. I would like to post the oil sample reports but not sure how to. As far as the premium fuel I’m not surprised or disappointed I’m having to pay for premium fuel. This 1.5 engine as a static compression ratio of 10.7:1 which is in the premium fuel needed zone even without the higher dynamic compression ratio caused by the turbo. When I read the specs on this engine I thought how’d they do that? But really don’t think they really did. I’ve never seen a engine benefit more from premium fuel. Drive ability is fantastic along with the fuel mileage. Last oil change it averaged 31.4 over the 3372 miles with me towing a 820 lb boat/trailer 40-60 miles a week. I’ve seen above 40 mpg going to the beach with it averaging 36 for the whole trip.
I’m going to run this oil change 4K miles and do another sample to make sure the viscosity is holding up. May try a 5k if it checks good but with a 3.5 quart capacity that may be a stretch.
Don’t think Honda is the only one that’s having this problem but may be the worse. Maybe they will come up with something but with a lifetime of experience building engines I think it all comes back to compression and enough octane levels in the fuel to make it run without over adjusting the timing of things going on under that hood.
Thanks for your report. Yep, you are now an official member of the CRV-OD Club. Congratulations! I'm guessing that this is not a cold-weather problem unless you are living close to the Arctic Circle, yes? So much for that crutch. I am frying in Arizona and oil dilution is working just fine. Can't believe premium has helped your problem, but you take what you can get.
First oil change was winter (Nov), while second one likely spring. OP, where are you located and/or what are temperatures during various seasons? Was there a difference in idling and warm up times?

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by Lugerhead » Mon Aug 13, 2018 8:10 pm

The CRV was bought 11/2017, the 1 quart drain/fill was done 4/4/18 at 3600 miles when the level increased 1/8 inch pass the mark I had scribed on the dipstick. The full oil change was done 5/6/18 at 5112 miles.
I’d say for this area is was a cold winter. Normal daily driving with about 4 beach trips of approximately 500 miles each during the spring of this year. Second full oil change done 7/28/18 at 8484 miles with mostly daily driving, and a couple of 500 mile beach trips.

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by Lugerhead » Mon Aug 13, 2018 8:21 pm

Sorry, I didn’t answer all the questions. I live in the Piedmont region of NC. I’d say winters 20s-30s at nights and 40s-50s days. No cold idling, unheated
garage kept and maybe a little hot idling if it’s hot. Summers are 80s-90s and usually muggy.

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by inbox788 » Mon Aug 13, 2018 10:17 pm

Lugerhead wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 8:10 pm
The CRV was bought 11/2017, the 1 quart drain/fill was done 4/4/18 at 3600 miles when the level increased 1/8 inch pass the mark I had scribed on the dipstick. The full oil change was done 5/6/18 at 5112 miles.
I’d say for this area is was a cold winter. Normal daily driving with about 4 beach trips of approximately 500 miles each during the spring of this year. Second full oil change done 7/28/18 at 8484 miles with mostly daily driving, and a couple of 500 mile beach trips.
Thanks for the added info. Seems consistent with the cold weather relationship established early on. Also related with short trips, so those longer trips and warmer weather in spring may have more to do with the improvement than the premium fuel.
The issue involving the CR-V and the Civic has occurred in northern China where temperatures can dip well below the freezing point and when drivers of the affected vehicles drive short distances frequently.

On short runs, Honda engineers believe the engine doesn’t warm up enough to help un-combusted petrol accumulated in the lubricant oil pan to evaporate.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-tesl ... SKBN1KY08C

http://www.hondaproblems.com/trends/crv ... amination/

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by Lugerhead » Tue Aug 14, 2018 6:05 am

Maybe it’s the warmer weather that’s helping but I don’t think so. One sure thing is time will tell. Ever which way it goes this winter I’ll post my findings.

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by CULater » Wed Aug 15, 2018 4:28 pm

For those following this thread, I thought I'd post the latest observations on my 2017 CRV Touring. As some know, I'm waiting to get a look at the new 2019 RAV4 which is due out soon to dump the CRV. Since the last oil change done by the dealer when I first noticed the oil dilution issue, I've put on about 5K miles and have 40% oil life remaining. From about 100 miles after that oil change until now, the dipstick level was higher than the overfill mark and the oil smelled of fuel. Today when I checked it, it was 12 mm (1/2 inch) too high - above the orange plastic tip. Now that the oil has turned darker it is much easier to get an accurate reading on the dipstick. When the oil is fresh, it has such low viscosity that it's hard to see on the dipstick.

It seems to slowly be increasing. Virtually all that driving has been in warm to hot weather conditions and long freeway trips. So, it's not correct that this is a cold weather and/or short trip problem. This 1.5L turbo engine has some serious problems. I wouldn't buy this vehicle or an Accord or Civic with this engine in it. Honda will never fix this problem, so you're stuck with it if your engine is affected. If you don't check your oil level, you'll never know.
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by munemaker » Wed Aug 15, 2018 4:34 pm

CULater wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 4:28 pm
I've put on about 5K miles and have 40% oil life remaining.
I have a 2009 CR*V. From experience, my CR*V have 7,200 miles on it by the time the panel showed 40%. Could be difference between our driving conditions, or could be due to a shorter OCI programmed in for the turbo. Not relevant to the dilution problem but thought I would mention it.

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by CULater » Wed Aug 15, 2018 5:04 pm

I was googling around on the oil dilution problem and came across this Youtube piece. I suddenly realized that I have been noticing that my engine sounded a bit rough lately. I just went out and lifted the hood with the engine running and it sounds pretty much like the youtube piece here, maybe not quite as bad but pretty close. I wonder if some of you have, or can, take a listen to your 1.5L turbo Honda engine and let me know what it sounds like. Is this normal?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_aXs1QF8og
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My 2017 CRV 1.5L engine sounds like a diesel - normal?

Post by CULater » Wed Aug 15, 2018 5:34 pm

[Thread merged into here, see below. --admin LadyGeek]

I found this video on Youtube, and checked my 2017 CRV with the 1.5L engine. It pretty much sounds like the youtube video and has the oil dilution problem. Would like to hear from other owners of vehicles with this engine: is this how your engine sounds? -- is it normal or do I have an engine problem?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_aXs1QF8og
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Why you may not want a direct fuel injection engine in your next vehicle

Post by CULater » Wed Aug 15, 2018 6:45 pm

[Thread merged into here, see below. --admin LadyGeek]

The more I research these issues, the more I learn. Latest discovery is this video describing the pros and cons of direct fuel injection. Biggest problem is carbon buildup on valves and the likely problems that will cause after about 50 - 60K miles. Honda is one manufacturer using DI in its engines. Could be that the days of running Honda engines for 200,000 + miles are not likely to continue with DI engines. Better solution is Port Fuel Injection or Dual Injection (Port and Direct) as the video explains. Toyota in particular uses Duel Injection. Maybe a reason their engine reliability is likely going to be better than Honda's. Honda is going for the increased performance and high fuel efficiency of DI, perhaps at the cost of great engine reliability.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrLNDgr ... gs=pl%2Cwn
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Re: My 2017 CRV 1.5L engine sounds like a diesel - normal?

Post by aas » Wed Aug 15, 2018 7:03 pm

I have the 2107 CRV with oil gas dilution problem but engine does not sound like that. That's sound like diesel engine, have dealer check it out.

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by LadyGeek » Wed Aug 15, 2018 7:24 pm

CULater - Let's keep all the CR-V engine issues in one spot. I merged your two threads into here. (You've also posted the same info at the end of this thread. 4th post up from here.)
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by Wakefield1 » Wed Aug 15, 2018 8:06 pm

Perhaps direct injection on a gasoline engine should only be activated during full throttle/high turbo boost operation as a go fast aid and ordinary port or even "izzacarb" (throttle body injection) used during ordinary routine part throttle and idle operation. An expensive toy?
I think that Diesel injection (which is direct and very high pressure) has been subject to lots of engineering research to optimize the spray pattern and dispersion and droplet size. Including trying to eliminate "afterdribble" of fuel tending to leave the injector late,after injection should have stopped,even as late as during the exhaust valve open time.

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by zaplunken » Wed Aug 15, 2018 8:58 pm

CULater wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 5:04 pm
I was googling around on the oil dilution problem and came across this Youtube piece. I suddenly realized that I have been noticing that my engine sounded a bit rough lately. I just went out and lifted the hood with the engine running and it sounds pretty much like the youtube piece here, maybe not quite as bad but pretty close. I wonder if some of you have, or can, take a listen to your 1.5L turbo Honda engine and let me know what it sounds like. Is this normal?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_aXs1QF8og
That engine sounds like a diesel!

That sound might be valves that are tapping. When the valves are out of adjustment they do make a sound that is like that but this is based upon engines from the 60's to 90's, my "new" car is a 93 Accord. Today's engines may be totally different and perhaps don't require adjusting the valves?

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by CULater » Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:24 pm

As much as I've examined the engine on my CRV, I haven't really lifted the hood with the engine idling until today when I saw the youtube video. So I can't say for sure that it hasn't always sounded diesel-like. You just don't think of this stuff with a new vehicle. My google research shows that direct injection engines (which the 1.5L is) can be somewhat noisy because they utilize high-pressure direct injection like diesel engines do. But they aren't necessarily noisy, so I don't know if this thing is normal or not. I'm concerned that it might be noisy because of abnormal engine wear due to oil dilution. This engine has always had the symptoms of oil dilution, but only has 13,800 miles on it. If it is abnormal engine wear it is sure taking place fast and maybe won't make it until I can dump it off in trade for a 2019 Toyota RAV4. That one has duel injection (direct and port), which is superior to DI only from what I've read. Uses port injection under normal driving, which is less likely to exacerbate oil dilution and carbon build-up. Direct injection kicks in under more aggressive driving conditions for more horsepower. Also the RAV4 will NOT be turbocharged, which is another contributor to oil dilution.
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by Dagwood » Thu Aug 16, 2018 6:53 am

This whole fiasco is a perfect example of the cost and risk to consumers associated with such high fuel economy standards. Miniature turbo charged engines running 10+ atmospheres of compression on 0 weight oil with direct injection and regular grade fuel? It is all to hit that CAFE number. Good grief. Keep your Honda K series engine in good order and hold on to it. And take mass transit where available. That is what we do to be conscientious. These new engines likely will be a problem as they age. I would be particularly concerned about the bottom end of the motor with diluted thin oil. It will be out of warranty bY the time the issue manifests itself. Another choice is to trade your new CRV for the RAV. I would bet money on the fact Toyota will not take the multiple chances Honda did with this motor. Too much of their rep is tied up in reliability.

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by CULater » Thu Aug 16, 2018 8:23 am

Dagwood wrote:
Thu Aug 16, 2018 6:53 am
This whole fiasco is a perfect example of the cost and risk to consumers associated with such high fuel economy standards. Miniature turbo charged engines running 10+ atmospheres of compression on 0 weight oil with direct injection and regular grade fuel? It is all to hit that CAFE number. Good grief. Keep your Honda K series engine in good order and hold on to it. And take mass transit where available. That is what we do to be conscientious. These new engines likely will be a problem as they age. I would be particularly concerned about the bottom end of the motor with diluted thin oil. It will be out of warranty bY the time the issue manifests itself. Another choice is to trade your new CRV for the RAV. I would bet money on the fact Toyota will not take the multiple chances Honda did with this motor. Too much of their rep is tied up in reliability.
I agree. Manufacturers are trying to come up with all sorts of tricks to meet mileage and emission standards with gasoline powered engines, which are poorly suited to the task. In the case of Honda, they've decided to go with small displacement, turbocharged, direct fuel injection engines. Probably a good choice for a race car, but race cars are not designed for long-term reliability. These Rube Goldberg things are intended to meet short term standards at the cost of long-term reliability and expense. We'll have to bear the higher cost of repairing and maintaining our vehicles when they are a few years old and out of warranty. You begin to see why electric and hybrid engines would actually be a better choice.
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by davidkw » Sat Aug 18, 2018 2:06 pm

CULater wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:24 pm
As much as I've examined the engine on my CRV, I haven't really lifted the hood with the engine idling until today when I saw the youtube video. So I can't say for sure that it hasn't always sounded diesel-like. You just don't think of this stuff with a new vehicle. My google research shows that direct injection engines (which the 1.5L is) can be somewhat noisy because they utilize high-pressure direct injection like diesel engines do. But they aren't necessarily noisy, so I don't know if this thing is normal or not. I'm concerned that it might be noisy because of abnormal engine wear due to oil dilution. This engine has always had the symptoms of oil dilution, but only has 13,800 miles on it. If it is abnormal engine wear it is sure taking place fast and maybe won't make it until I can dump it off in trade for a 2019 Toyota RAV4. That one has duel injection (direct and port), which is superior to DI only from what I've read. Uses port injection under normal driving, which is less likely to exacerbate oil dilution and carbon build-up. Direct injection kicks in under more aggressive driving conditions for more horsepower. Also the RAV4 will NOT be turbocharged, which is another contributor to oil dilution.
Great point! I have been thinking about a new car with the latest safety features. I will wait til the 2019 RAV4 comes out
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by munemaker » Sun Aug 19, 2018 8:41 pm

Here's a news item I noticed:

First, a little background: As was written above, Chinese government previously stopped sale of CR-Vs. Honda proposed a recall for units already sold with a proposed fix of oil change, update the gasoline injection control software and extend the warranty. I think there were a little over 300,000 vehicles involved. Obviously the proposed fix is not getting to the root cause of the problem and my understanding was the Chinese government would not approve that solution.

Now the news item: In the August 20 issue of Bloomberg Business Week (page 8), there is a short blurb that may be relevant:
-> Honda begins a recall of more than 300,000 vehicles in China on August 20 to fix flaws in some engines and braking systems.
That's all it said. This is speculative, but perhaps Honda found a fix to the oil gas-dilution problem in the CR-V that was approved by the Chinese government which lead to a government approved recall. I did a little searching on this but was unable to find anything more.

EDIT: I did find this, which does not support the information I stated above:
https://www.nasdaq.com/article/honda-re ... 0809-00327

So I don't know what to think.

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by CULater » Sun Aug 19, 2018 10:15 pm

munemaker wrote:
Sun Aug 19, 2018 8:41 pm
Here's a news item I noticed:

First, a little background: As was written above, Chinese government previously stopped sale of CR-Vs. Honda proposed a recall for units already sold with a proposed fix of oil change, update the gasoline injection control software and extend the warranty. I think there were a little over 300,000 vehicles involved. Obviously the proposed fix is not getting to the root cause of the problem and my understanding was the Chinese government would not approve that solution.

Now the news item: In the August 20 issue of Bloomberg Business Week (page 8), there is a short blurb that may be relevant:
-> Honda begins a recall of more than 300,000 vehicles in China on August 20 to fix flaws in some engines and braking systems.
That's all it said. This is speculative, but perhaps Honda found a fix to the oil gas-dilution problem in the CR-V that was approved by the Chinese government which lead to a government approved recall. I did a little searching on this but was unable to find anything more.

EDIT: I did find this, which does not support the information I stated above:
https://www.nasdaq.com/article/honda-re ... 0809-00327

So I don't know what to think.
My 2-centavos is that the problem with this engine is still there and is affecting more Honda models that use it. There is no simple fix or they would be quietly fixing it when owners bring their vehicles in for dealer servicing. So far it seems to me that consumer complaints in the U.S. haven't reached critical mass and forced Honda to acknowledge the issue. This is thanks to the fact that most people rely on the maintenance minder, don't check their oil, and that it is so difficult to see where the oil level is on the dipstick even if you do. Eventually, Honda will quietly switch to a re-engineered engine but this needs a long lead time; it might be in 2019 which is the 3rd year for this vehicle. But I have three pieces of advice to repeat:

1) If you have a 10-foot pole, don't touch a CRV or any other Honda with a 1.5T engine with it
2) If you have already done #1, then CHECK YOUR OIL LEVEL!
3) After you have done #2 and you are beginning to feel a little sick, start complaining to your Honda dealer and start a case number with Honda corporate.
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by CULater » Mon Aug 20, 2018 8:07 am

I hate to be this guy, but I'm thinking of selling my 17 CRV myself instead of getting hosed on a trade-in. Maybe I can rationalize it by thinking that if somebody doesn't know about this problem by now, they deserve it. Or maybe they'll be the typical owner and never notice it until the engine disintegrates. I probably won't be able to do it though. Thing is, if I trade it off, that dealer is just going to sell it to some patsy anyway. Moral dilemma.
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by tapotti » Mon Aug 20, 2018 8:52 am

I'm assuming most of us with an affected CRV have 1 to 2 years left on warranty. I have 2 years left and not close to 36k miles.

Why rush to make a decision? I am annoyed as much as anyone else, but if you are assuming the problems will only manifest after the warranty is over, then drive the vehicle until you are near the end of warranty. Just a suggestion of course.

Selling the car doesn't need to be a "moral decision". Unless your car has already broken down, or you've already had to make costly repairs, I don't see why you would have to disclose anything.

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by anil686 » Mon Aug 20, 2018 9:04 am

I bought mine in November 2017 and did not become aware of this until Feb. my plan is to get the extended service plan and still plan on keeping it for many years - if it breaks down - I expect (maybe naively) Honda to fix it. The cost of the extended service plan I expect to be less than the loss I would take for selling it in the first year - just my approach though and I Fully agree that there are many ways to handle this....

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by tapotti » Mon Aug 20, 2018 9:07 am

I'm also looking into getting an extended warranty from GEICO (mechanical breakdown insurance). Still eligible as long as purchase date is within 15 months and 10k miles.

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by CULater » Mon Aug 20, 2018 9:08 am

tapotti wrote:
Mon Aug 20, 2018 8:52 am
I'm assuming most of us with an affected CRV have 1 to 2 years left on warranty. I have 2 years left and not close to 36k miles.

Why rush to make a decision? I am annoyed as much as anyone else, but if you are assuming the problems will only manifest after the warranty is over, then drive the vehicle until you are near the end of warranty. Just a suggestion of course.

Selling the car doesn't need to be a "moral decision". Unless your car has already broken down, or you've already had to make costly repairs, I don't see why you would have to disclose anything.
My concern is that the oil dilution issue could cause engine problems or failure. I often have long drives, one being trips of 1500 miles to and from Arizona. I have seen some instances of engine failure related to this problem, and I have no desire to be stranded and inconvenienced for days if that happens to me. I'm already noticing what seems to be an increased level of engine noise. Traded a 15-year old CRV on this thing that was running well but I was concerned about the dependability of an older vehicle on these long trips; now I've got the same worry with a new one. It has to go. Would be gone now, except I'm waiting to see the new RAV4.
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by TLC1957 » Mon Aug 20, 2018 3:24 pm

tapotti wrote:
Mon Aug 20, 2018 9:07 am
I'm also looking into getting an extended warranty from GEICO (mechanical breakdown insurance). Still eligible as long as purchase date is within 15 months and 10k miles.
I purchased my CRV in November 2017 and also got the HondaCare warranty, below are $$ when I purchased my CRV, went with $0 deductible 120K miles 8 years for $ 1110, my sleep insurance. I check the oil regularly no issues to date.

College Hills Honda D82$1120,
Saccucci Honda D82 $1170, C82 $1065
Hyannis Honda D82 $1110, C82$1005
Curry Honda D82$1260, C82$1155

C82 $100 Deductible
D82 $0 Deductible

C/D 120K miles, 8 years

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