Retire in Florida or Alabama?

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Colorado29
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Re: Retire in Florida or Alabama?

Post by Colorado29 » Tue Aug 14, 2018 2:44 pm

Jack FFR1846 wrote:
Tue Aug 14, 2018 6:44 am
I'd lean towards Virginia. No alligators.


Why Virginia? Never been up there, but is there some nice retirement spots?

Colorado29
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Re: Retire in Florida or Alabama?

Post by Colorado29 » Tue Aug 14, 2018 2:45 pm

Why Virginia? Never been up there, but are there some nice retirement spots?

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HomerJ
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Re: Retire in Florida or Alabama?

Post by HomerJ » Tue Aug 14, 2018 3:56 pm

UniversityEmployee9 wrote:
Tue Aug 14, 2018 9:17 am
Admiral wrote:
Tue Aug 14, 2018 9:07 am
My personal opinion is that due to climate change buying beach-front or beach-adjacent property anywhere in the southern half (and possibly even the northern half) of the United States is a risk not worth taking. In 20 years many of those areas will be unrecognizable. At the bare minimum the disruption from storms will be significant. Whatever they save in taxes will be wiped out by the hassle of constant evacuations. I have relatives off Savanah, GA and also in southern FL. It's a nightmare.

If you want to rent, fine.

If I was set on buying, I would only do so behind dunes.

Southern Florida will be underwater within most of the people on this board's lifetimes, IMHO. Heck on many sunny days it already is.

I cannot imagine what the insurance prices will be in 10 years, assuming you can even get it.
Seawalls are a thing. The idea that we're just going to one day, all of a sudden, be underwater, doesn't make any sense to me. If sea level rises it will rise gradually, and the wealthy people who live on the water can (and do already) afford to install and modify seawalls.

I wouldn't make any decisions about where to live based on something that a climate model predicts could happen in 50-100 years.
Seawalls won't help with southern Florida. Miami is built on porous limestone, and the water bubbles up from underneath. They were already having major problems a few years back (not 50-100 years from now), but they raised some roads, and upgraded their pumps, and they are doing okay now.

Seawalls might help in other parts of Florida, but a wall surrounding an entire state sounds pretty expensive.

I would not want to buy beachfront property at this time either.
The J stands for Jay

UniversityEmployee9
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Re: Retire in Florida or Alabama?

Post by UniversityEmployee9 » Tue Aug 14, 2018 3:58 pm

HomerJ wrote:
Tue Aug 14, 2018 3:56 pm
UniversityEmployee9 wrote:
Tue Aug 14, 2018 9:17 am
Admiral wrote:
Tue Aug 14, 2018 9:07 am
My personal opinion is that due to climate change buying beach-front or beach-adjacent property anywhere in the southern half (and possibly even the northern half) of the United States is a risk not worth taking. In 20 years many of those areas will be unrecognizable. At the bare minimum the disruption from storms will be significant. Whatever they save in taxes will be wiped out by the hassle of constant evacuations. I have relatives off Savanah, GA and also in southern FL. It's a nightmare.

If you want to rent, fine.

If I was set on buying, I would only do so behind dunes.

Southern Florida will be underwater within most of the people on this board's lifetimes, IMHO. Heck on many sunny days it already is.

I cannot imagine what the insurance prices will be in 10 years, assuming you can even get it.
Seawalls are a thing. The idea that we're just going to one day, all of a sudden, be underwater, doesn't make any sense to me. If sea level rises it will rise gradually, and the wealthy people who live on the water can (and do already) afford to install and modify seawalls.

I wouldn't make any decisions about where to live based on something that a climate model predicts could happen in 50-100 years.
Seawalls won't help with southern Florida. Miami is built on porous limestone, and the water bubbles up from underneath. They were already having major problems a few years back (not 50-100 years from now), but they raised some roads, and upgraded their pumps, and they are doing okay now.

Seawalls might help in other parts of Florida, but a wall surrounding an entire state sounds pretty expensive.

I would not want to buy beachfront property at this time either.
Seawalls are obviously just one form of technology, you just listed a few others that are also effective and that can also be implemented incrementally.

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HomerJ
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Re: Retire in Florida or Alabama?

Post by HomerJ » Tue Aug 14, 2018 3:59 pm

vested1 wrote:
Tue Aug 14, 2018 9:36 am
A valid point. However, without getting into the science of climate change, or if it is man made or not, everywhere is getting hotter. This is a concern of mine because we are considering moving from the central coast of California to South Carolina or Georgia. How hot will it be in those locations in 10 years, in twenty years? How hot will it be in Phoenix?
This is an important consideration for me too..

We are considering Phoenix as a retirement home... but I am indeed worried how hot it will get there in 10-20 years, and if they will have water issues.
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HomerJ
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Re: Retire in Florida or Alabama?

Post by HomerJ » Tue Aug 14, 2018 4:01 pm

UniversityEmployee9 wrote:
Tue Aug 14, 2018 3:58 pm
Seawalls are obviously just one form of technology, you just listed a few others that are also effective and that can also be implemented incrementally.
Well none of it is free. Expect taxes to go up.

And if the OP's parents are retiring for the beaches, they will not protected with pumps.
The J stands for Jay

UniversityEmployee9
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Re: Retire in Florida or Alabama?

Post by UniversityEmployee9 » Tue Aug 14, 2018 4:13 pm

HomerJ wrote:
Tue Aug 14, 2018 4:01 pm
UniversityEmployee9 wrote:
Tue Aug 14, 2018 3:58 pm
Seawalls are obviously just one form of technology, you just listed a few others that are also effective and that can also be implemented incrementally.
Well none of it is free. Expect taxes to go up.

And if the OP's parents are retiring for the beaches, they will not protected with pumps.
Agreed, taxes will probably go up. Big deal.

I still think that cautioning people against moving to Florida because of model-predicted sea level rise is alarmist and uncalled for.

mrmass
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Re: Retire in Florida or Alabama?

Post by mrmass » Tue Aug 14, 2018 4:28 pm

Gill wrote:
Tue Aug 14, 2018 7:54 am
mrmass wrote:
Tue Aug 14, 2018 6:36 am
Naples FL, specifically within walking distance of 5th Ave.
Are you serious? Only if you have a minimum of a million or more and very few that cheap. Lived there for 30 years.
Gill
I didn't see OP list a budget, I only saw FL vs AL. I visit there every Thanksgiving week. Stay at the Inn on 5th. Great place to live if you have the money.

Admiral
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Re: Retire in Florida or Alabama?

Post by Admiral » Tue Aug 14, 2018 4:40 pm

UniversityEmployee9 wrote:
Tue Aug 14, 2018 4:13 pm
HomerJ wrote:
Tue Aug 14, 2018 4:01 pm
UniversityEmployee9 wrote:
Tue Aug 14, 2018 3:58 pm
Seawalls are obviously just one form of technology, you just listed a few others that are also effective and that can also be implemented incrementally.
Well none of it is free. Expect taxes to go up.

And if the OP's parents are retiring for the beaches, they will not protected with pumps.
Agreed, taxes will probably go up. Big deal.

I still think that cautioning people against moving to Florida because of model-predicted sea level rise is alarmist and uncalled for.
It is neither alarmist nor uncalled for. It is a data point, one among many. Regardless of what you think is causing climate change, in most corners of the scientific world it is well accepted that it is happening, and is well supported by the evidence. Higher seas, more severe storms. If those things are not data points to consider when thinking about buying beachfront property, what is? Sure, if you want to have a home for 10 years and that's it, then it's fine to ignore the trends and hope for the best.

But if it's an investment that you hope to hold long term or pass along, why would you NOT consider the long term implications? That's not alarmist, it's effective planning.

And that's putting aside the increasing expense of insurance.

Broken Man 1999
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Re: Retire in Florida or Alabama?

Post by Broken Man 1999 » Tue Aug 14, 2018 4:49 pm

UniversityEmployee9 wrote:
Tue Aug 14, 2018 4:13 pm
HomerJ wrote:
Tue Aug 14, 2018 4:01 pm
UniversityEmployee9 wrote:
Tue Aug 14, 2018 3:58 pm
Seawalls are obviously just one form of technology, you just listed a few others that are also effective and that can also be implemented incrementally.
Well none of it is free. Expect taxes to go up.

And if the OP's parents are retiring for the beaches, they will not protected with pumps.
Agreed, taxes will probably go up. Big deal.

I still think that cautioning people against moving to Florida because of model-predicted sea level rise is alarmist and uncalled for.
Maybe Florida can get the engineers who are responsible for New Orleans (NO) infrastructure. Isn't NO sitting in a "bowl" with pumping keeping things dry....mostly...sometimes?

I am inland from Tampa Bay, far enough to have no concerns with storm surge. As well, my home's elevation is 50'+. IOW, if my place floods, I'll be looking out for Noah and his family.

Some coastal areas are certainly pretty low. My sister had a fish camp on the Steinhatchee river, which goes to the Gulf, and it was routinely flooded with spring tides. There were spaces in the floor, dried out quickly. Probably another couple of feet higher on the stilts would have been better.

Broken Man 1999
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denovo
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Re: Retire in Florida or Alabama?

Post by denovo » Tue Aug 14, 2018 6:32 pm

DanMahowny wrote:
Tue Aug 14, 2018 9:18 am
adamthesmythe wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 6:24 pm
I would pay good money to not live in either Florida or Alabama.

I do consider Florida more civilized.
Why? Please explain. Where do you live?

Not challenging you at all. I honestly want to know what you think. Figure I might learn something. Thanks.
This thread will be locked if it goes down that route, it'll go into heated discussions of politics and society.
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daveydoo
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Re: Retire in Florida or Alabama?

Post by daveydoo » Tue Aug 14, 2018 7:06 pm

UniversityEmployee9 wrote:
Tue Aug 14, 2018 9:17 am

I wouldn't make any decisions about where to live based on something that a climate model predicts could happen in 50-100 years.
And therein lies the problem. "I don't intend to plan my retirement around what some stupid model predicts for fifty years from now." But, you see, that is almost the entire basis for this forum. :D
"I mean, it's one banana, Michael...what could it cost? Ten dollars?"

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whodidntante
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Re: Retire in Florida or Alabama?

Post by whodidntante » Tue Aug 14, 2018 7:18 pm

Mississippi is worse. So at least it's not the worst.

UniversityEmployee9
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Re: Retire in Florida or Alabama?

Post by UniversityEmployee9 » Tue Aug 14, 2018 7:30 pm

daveydoo wrote:
Tue Aug 14, 2018 7:06 pm
UniversityEmployee9 wrote:
Tue Aug 14, 2018 9:17 am

I wouldn't make any decisions about where to live based on something that a climate model predicts could happen in 50-100 years.
And therein lies the problem. "I don't intend to plan my retirement around what some stupid model predicts for fifty years from now." But, you see, that is almost the entire basis for this forum. :D
I was under the impression that this forum believes that you can't trust forecasts as gospel truth.

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Doom&Gloom
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Re: Retire in Florida or Alabama?

Post by Doom&Gloom » Tue Aug 14, 2018 7:53 pm

UniversityEmployee9 wrote:
Tue Aug 14, 2018 7:30 pm
daveydoo wrote:
Tue Aug 14, 2018 7:06 pm
UniversityEmployee9 wrote:
Tue Aug 14, 2018 9:17 am

I wouldn't make any decisions about where to live based on something that a climate model predicts could happen in 50-100 years.
And therein lies the problem. "I don't intend to plan my retirement around what some stupid model predicts for fifty years from now." But, you see, that is almost the entire basis for this forum. :D
I was under the impression that this forum believes that you can't trust forecasts as gospel truth.
And I wouldn't base my decision about where to retire upon the opinions of people on this, or any other, internet forum.

To OP: if too much traffic is a concern, check out the "Forgotten Coast" area of FL east of Destin. Personally, that is where I would be looking, but as I said above ...

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bottlecap
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Re: Retire in Florida or Alabama?

Post by bottlecap » Tue Aug 14, 2018 8:09 pm

Florida is a great place. Fantastic beaches. My mother lives there. I have only been in northern and middle Alabama (wife's parents), so for all I know there may be some great beaches there, too.

Other than that, from a retirement prospective:

Florida:

Higher property taxes
Higher home insurance rates
Lower sales tax
Have to deal with more Yankees
Likely better seafood

Alabama:

Lower property taxes
Higher sales taxes
Possibly less Home insurance rates
Likely less Yankees to deal with
Likely better barbecue
Better college football (as much as it pains me to say so)

My guess would be better hunting in Alabama, but perhaps the fishing is better in Florida with a bigger coastline? Golfing is pretty good in Florida, too.

Why don’t they visit each, maybe do a vrbo a few times, to see what they like?

Good luck,

JT

P.S. There are probably more retirees in some areas of Florida, if social aspects are a concern.
Last edited by bottlecap on Tue Aug 14, 2018 8:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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LadyGeek
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Re: Retire in Florida or Alabama?

Post by LadyGeek » Tue Aug 14, 2018 8:16 pm

This thread is now in the Personal Consumer Issues forum (where to live).

The OP has cast a wider net and is also looking for suggestions outside the US here: As an American, where are some great places in the world to retire?

As for taxes, the wiki has some background info: State income taxes - Download Individual Income Tax Provisions in the States to find states that are "retirement friendly".

For example, PA does not tax retirement income.
Wiki To some, the glass is half full. To others, the glass is half empty. To an engineer, it's twice the size it needs to be.

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LadyGeek
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Re: Retire in Florida or Alabama?

Post by LadyGeek » Tue Aug 14, 2018 8:17 pm

With regards to some previous comments, rants about state taxes (or the political process) are off-topic. Please state your concerns in a civil, factual manner.
Wiki To some, the glass is half full. To others, the glass is half empty. To an engineer, it's twice the size it needs to be.

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Toons
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Re: Retire in Florida or Alabama?

Post by Toons » Tue Aug 14, 2018 8:30 pm

The Panhandle Of Florida.


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yukonjack
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Re: Retire in Florida or Alabama?

Post by yukonjack » Tue Aug 14, 2018 8:47 pm

The fact that the Alabama coast is referred to as the “Redneck Riviera “ would give me pause. And if I’m not mistaken that same vibe exists in northern Florida.

UniversityEmployee9
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Re: Retire in Florida or Alabama?

Post by UniversityEmployee9 » Tue Aug 14, 2018 8:57 pm

yukonjack wrote:
Tue Aug 14, 2018 8:47 pm
The fact that the Alabama coast is referred to as the “Redneck Riviera “ would give me pause. And if I’m not mistaken that same vibe exists in northern Florida.
That name is used in a jocular and endearing way. If you think everyone there is married to their sisters then you've seen too many movies.

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HomerJ
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Re: Retire in Florida or Alabama?

Post by HomerJ » Tue Aug 14, 2018 10:12 pm

bottlecap wrote:
Tue Aug 14, 2018 8:09 pm
Florida is a great place. Fantastic beaches. My mother lives there. I have only been in northern and middle Alabama (wife's parents), so for all I know there may be some great beaches there, too.

Other than that, from a retirement prospective:

Florida:

Higher property taxes
Higher home insurance rates
Lower sales tax
Have to deal with more Yankees
Likely better seafood

Alabama:

Lower property taxes
Higher sales taxes
Possibly less Home insurance rates
Likely less Yankees to deal with
Likely better barbecue
Better college football (as much as it pains me to say so)

My guess would be better hunting in Alabama, but perhaps the fishing is better in Florida with a bigger coastline? Golfing is pretty good in Florida, too.

Why don’t they visit each, maybe do a vrbo a few times, to see what they like?

Good luck,

JT

P.S. There are probably more retirees in some areas of Florida, if social aspects are a concern.
Based on the above, I say live on the Alabama/Florida border, but in Alabama proper.

Lower property taxes on your house in Alabama.
Cross the border to shop for lower sales taxes in Florida
Get to enjoy seafood AND BBQ,
Get to enjoy hunting AND fishing
Golfing in Florida, and run back to Alabama if the Yankees get too thick :)
The J stands for Jay

daveydoo
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Re: Retire in Florida or Alabama?

Post by daveydoo » Tue Aug 14, 2018 10:14 pm

UniversityEmployee9 wrote:
Tue Aug 14, 2018 7:30 pm
daveydoo wrote:
Tue Aug 14, 2018 7:06 pm
UniversityEmployee9 wrote:
Tue Aug 14, 2018 9:17 am

I wouldn't make any decisions about where to live based on something that a climate model predicts could happen in 50-100 years.
And therein lies the problem. "I don't intend to plan my retirement around what some stupid model predicts for fifty years from now." But, you see, that is almost the entire basis for this forum. :D
I was under the impression that this forum believes that you can't trust forecasts as gospel truth.
No one said anything about "truth" or even ( :D ) "gospel truth."

We use models. To help us prepare. For the future.

We don't forecast the future; we forecast a range of possible futures based upon available data, and updated as new data emerge. We make educated predictions -- sometimes with narrow confidence intervals and sometimes with wide confidence intervals. But all of financial planning is based on models. So are lots of other things. Some people only respect models when their own money is on the line. :D

So you've learned from this forum that the tenets of this forum can not be trusted. :D
"I mean, it's one banana, Michael...what could it cost? Ten dollars?"

More Please
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Re: Retire in Florida or Alabama?

Post by More Please » Thu Aug 16, 2018 7:47 am

I live on the Alabama Florida border, on Perdido Bay. HomerJ pretty much described my situation.

Valuethinker
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Re: Retire in Florida or Alabama?

Post by Valuethinker » Thu Aug 16, 2018 8:42 am

UniversityEmployee9 wrote:
Tue Aug 14, 2018 9:17 am
Admiral wrote:
Tue Aug 14, 2018 9:07 am
My personal opinion is that due to climate change buying beach-front or beach-adjacent property anywhere in the southern half (and possibly even the northern half) of the United States is a risk not worth taking. In 20 years many of those areas will be unrecognizable. At the bare minimum the disruption from storms will be significant. Whatever they save in taxes will be wiped out by the hassle of constant evacuations. I have relatives off Savanah, GA and also in southern FL. It's a nightmare.

If you want to rent, fine.

If I was set on buying, I would only do so behind dunes.

Southern Florida will be underwater within most of the people on this board's lifetimes, IMHO. Heck on many sunny days it already is.

I cannot imagine what the insurance prices will be in 10 years, assuming you can even get it.
Seawalls are a thing. The idea that we're just going to one day, all of a sudden, be underwater, doesn't make any sense to me. If sea level rises it will rise gradually, and the wealthy people who live on the water can (and do already) afford to install and modify seawalls.
And the limitations of sea walls are a thing, too. They are not a panacea. In particular they simply shift the water somewhere else but the water still will try to flow.

New York is building flood defences. However to protect lower Manhattan will probably mean greater flooding risk up river and in parts of Queens, Brooklyn and Staten Island that are on the harbor. The Thames Tidal barrier in London, perhaps the world's largest installation of that type, both prevents high tidal/ storm tidal flooding of London, but also worsens it downstream (and upstream - the Thames is a river basin and excessive rain particularly on still frozen ground, causes flooding).

The bottom line is more flood defences will be built, and especially around the most valuable real estate. But it's not a good assumption that everywhere can, or will, be protected. BTW there is a world shortage of beach sand, so that's another issue in terms of protection of beach front. We also cannot assume that the losses will always be socialized - individuals may bear a big chunk of their own losses.

It's also not the case that the sea level rise is certain to be gradual. That's a comforting assumption of our models, but only an assumption - we are not good at modelling discontinuous change.

I wouldn't make any decisions about where to live based on something that a climate model predicts could happen in 50-100 years.
For Miami, Norfolk VA, New Orleans local conditions mean the problem is *now* or nearly now. There may be some other places - for complex reasons around the AMOC (the "Gulf Stream") the sea level rise on the east coast of North America is 2x as fast as in most other places.

Miami the problem is the underlying rock which is sea water permeable - you literally cannot dam around it-- in principle you can move infrastructure to higher levels and jack up buildings. Flooding in the Norfolk area has become habitual.

Valuethinker
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Re: Retire in Florida or Alabama?

Post by Valuethinker » Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:01 am

UniversityEmployee9 wrote:
Tue Aug 14, 2018 4:13 pm
HomerJ wrote:
Tue Aug 14, 2018 4:01 pm
UniversityEmployee9 wrote:
Tue Aug 14, 2018 3:58 pm
Seawalls are obviously just one form of technology, you just listed a few others that are also effective and that can also be implemented incrementally.
Well none of it is free. Expect taxes to go up.

And if the OP's parents are retiring for the beaches, they will not protected with pumps.
Agreed, taxes will probably go up. Big deal.
I still think that cautioning people against moving to Florida because of model-predicted sea level rise is alarmist and uncalled for.
The source of the forecast is getting less interesting. The future speed is likely to be a lot faster than the historic speed - the numbers from glaciated parts of the world are just shocking - 30 degree C temperature anomalies etc.

What is interesting is what is happening *now* and in south Florida in particular Miami (and perhaps other parts, I don't know the area) it is a very real and immediate problem. In Miami it is a problem of water permeable rock.

This is valuable real estate in downtown Miami so one imagines that things will be done to protect. What can be done is not clear. But it's soon enough that it will affect the saleability of homes in that part of the world within the time horizon of some buyers now. There are other places in the USA which will be so affected. Unfortunately the historic rate of change is not a good guide to the future rate of change. We know from housing crashes (or Turkey) that something can be known, be background, and then suddenly the market crystallizes its fears - hits a "tipping point".

What it means is if you move down there you shouldn't buy. Rent. Let someone else bear the risk. Or be prepared to accept that there might be no resale value. Or find some place at a decent elevation.

History is full of cities where the environment changed and the city lost its function. Bruges in Belgium is chocolate box preserved because the harbour silted up. Ditto Rye in East Sussex. The Venetians originally settled much closer to mainland (Torcello) but then malaria got worse so they migrated further into the Lagoon.

smitcat
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Re: Retire in Florida or Alabama?

Post by smitcat » Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:06 am

If you concerns include areas affected by potential future weather events perhaps include these in your research and selection:
- Inland flooding/landslides
- earthquakes
- tornadoes
- hurricanes
- sink holes
- tsunamis
- ARK rains
- Fires
- Volcanic activity

michaeljc70
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Re: Retire in Florida or Alabama?

Post by michaeljc70 » Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:10 am

adamshousecat wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 7:27 pm
The beaches from Gulf Shores Al through the Florida panhandle are absolutely gorgeous
They are gorgeous. That is not all year round beach weather though. I remember going to Destin in November and wearing a sweater on the beach.

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Chicken lady
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Re: Retire in Florida or Alabama?

Post by Chicken lady » Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:45 am

Seems to me that the financial/fact based information you are looking for would be easily accessible via the internet or even just referring to a decent reference book at your local library. A tit-for-tat property tax, income tax, average level of education, etc. should make for an easy comparison.

I can say that I lived in Alabama for many years and it's like most states - there are impoverished areas, well endowed areas, high education, poor education areas, etc. but overall Alabama is a very poor state. Its government makes decisions based on 'no money' or how many times can a penny be split. You see the poverty in the way the public schools (K-12 and higher) are funded, the road maintenance, etc. Now, there are some very nice areas along the coast - Fairview and Perido Bay are nice and not overly inhabited. There are tons of condo's on Orange Beach so if your folks would be satisfied with that lifestyle that may be an option for them but there are a lot of tourists there.

Can't say I know much about Florida. It looks a lot like the Alabama coast.

Texanbybirth
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Re: Retire in Florida or Alabama?

Post by Texanbybirth » Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:04 am

michaeljc70 wrote:
Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:10 am
adamshousecat wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 7:27 pm
The beaches from Gulf Shores Al through the Florida panhandle are absolutely gorgeous
They are gorgeous. That is not all year round beach weather though. I remember going to Destin in November and wearing a sweater on the beach.
Nothing wrong with that if you've ever been to that same beach in August and felt like your skin was melting off. :beer

(Agree with your main point: "beach" doesn't mean swimming and surfing all year round.)

We'd move to the FL panhandle yesterday if our community here (in TX!) wasn't so amazing.

tydas
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Re: Retire in Florida or Alabama?

Post by tydas » Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:14 am

For a retiree, I would be concerned about Alabama's poor ratings on access and quality of healthcare.

RollTide31457
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Re: Retire in Florida or Alabama?

Post by RollTide31457 » Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:39 am

Alabama is as good as it gets. Great people, great places and great food.

Roll tide!

Beehave
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Re: Retire in Florida or Alabama?

Post by Beehave » Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:42 am

HomerJ wrote:
Tue Aug 14, 2018 10:12 pm
bottlecap wrote:
Tue Aug 14, 2018 8:09 pm
Florida is a great place. Fantastic beaches. My mother lives there. I have only been in northern and middle Alabama (wife's parents), so for all I know there may be some great beaches there, too.

Other than that, from a retirement prospective:

Florida:

Higher property taxes
Higher home insurance rates
Lower sales tax
Have to deal with more Yankees
Likely better seafood

Alabama:

Lower property taxes
Higher sales taxes
Possibly less Home insurance rates
Likely less Yankees to deal with
Likely better barbecue
Better college football (as much as it pains me to say so)

My guess would be better hunting in Alabama, but perhaps the fishing is better in Florida with a bigger coastline? Golfing is pretty good in Florida, too.

Why don’t they visit each, maybe do a vrbo a few times, to see what they like?

Good luck,

JT

P.S. There are probably more retirees in some areas of Florida, if social aspects are a concern.
Based on the above, I say live on the Alabama/Florida border, but in Alabama proper.

Lower property taxes on your house in Alabama.
Cross the border to shop for lower sales taxes in Florida
Get to enjoy seafood AND BBQ,
Get to enjoy hunting AND fishing
Golfing in Florida, and run back to Alabama if the Yankees get too thick :)
Lots of concert halls, theaters, museums, good schools, art galleries, interesting restaurants, and diverse museums and cultures where those Yankees congregate. To each her or his own... :beer or :sharebeer as you wish.

wolf359
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Re: Retire in Florida or Alabama?

Post by wolf359 » Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:03 am

Admiral wrote:
Tue Aug 14, 2018 4:40 pm
UniversityEmployee9 wrote:
Tue Aug 14, 2018 4:13 pm
HomerJ wrote:
Tue Aug 14, 2018 4:01 pm
UniversityEmployee9 wrote:
Tue Aug 14, 2018 3:58 pm
Seawalls are obviously just one form of technology, you just listed a few others that are also effective and that can also be implemented incrementally.
Well none of it is free. Expect taxes to go up.

And if the OP's parents are retiring for the beaches, they will not protected with pumps.
Agreed, taxes will probably go up. Big deal.

I still think that cautioning people against moving to Florida because of model-predicted sea level rise is alarmist and uncalled for.
It is neither alarmist nor uncalled for. It is a data point, one among many. Regardless of what you think is causing climate change, in most corners of the scientific world it is well accepted that it is happening, and is well supported by the evidence. Higher seas, more severe storms. If those things are not data points to consider when thinking about buying beachfront property, what is? Sure, if you want to have a home for 10 years and that's it, then it's fine to ignore the trends and hope for the best.

But if it's an investment that you hope to hold long term or pass along, why would you NOT consider the long term implications? That's not alarmist, it's effective planning.

And that's putting aside the increasing expense of insurance.
I think it's a perfectly valid data point. Knowing that there are projections of rising sea levels and more severe storms should be considered. You weight those projections in accordance with your own judgement. Maybe the projections are right, and maybe they're wrong. Who knows? We'll find out in 50 years.

Meanwhile, any time you're considering living at sea level in an area prone to flooding and storms, it's prudent to account for it in your planning.

smitcat
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Re: Retire in Florida or Alabama?

Post by smitcat » Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:11 am

tydas wrote:
Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:14 am
For a retiree, I would be concerned about Alabama's poor ratings on access and quality of healthcare.
Yes - perhaps consult some data on health and life expectancy as well like this....
https://www.businessinsider.com/ranked- ... ate-2018-4

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HomerJ
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Re: Retire in Florida or Alabama?

Post by HomerJ » Thu Aug 16, 2018 1:30 pm

wolf359 wrote:
Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:03 am
Meanwhile, any time you're considering living at sea level in an area prone to flooding and storms, it's prudent to account for it in your planning.
Most ocean front property is going to get hit by a storm sooner or later with corresponding high water levels.

Every time I'm watching HGTV Beachfront Property Hunters or Island Hunters with my wife, I always note when the house is very near sea level.

Some are higher up on a hill, others are down low just a couple of feet higher than the ocean. Of those, some on on stilts, others are not.

There's no way I'd EVER buy the ones the close to sea level with no stilts.

I notice the real estate brokers NEVER mention storms though when showing the properties :(
The J stands for Jay

Jack FFR1846
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Re: Retire in Florida or Alabama?

Post by Jack FFR1846 » Thu Aug 16, 2018 1:56 pm

Colorado29 wrote:
Tue Aug 14, 2018 2:44 pm
Jack FFR1846 wrote:
Tue Aug 14, 2018 6:44 am
I'd lean towards Virginia. No alligators.

Why Virginia? Never been up there, but is there some nice retirement spots?
The wife and I have been looking for someplace for years. After going to Ft Myers, thinking that between Sanibel and the everlasting beaches of the west coast, we'd like it. Less hectic than the east coast. After a week in August, we crossed the entire state off our list. I realized that I hate it when the temp is anything over 70 degrees.

Anyways, just south of Virginia Beach, there are affordable, nicely set houses. I also did enough research to determine that it's just north of the "where alligators could be" line. We were looking there because the wife wants something near the beach. I could be in Colorado and do fine as I hate the beach. We'll likely just stay in our current house, west of Boston and go on trips.



I did get a kick out of a post up a bit saying that seawalls cure any of the rising sea issues. I guess that poster has never been to Miami. Sort of hard to build an effective seawall when some streets are below mean high tide levels.
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seychellois_lib
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Re: Retire in Florida or Alabama?

Post by seychellois_lib » Thu Aug 16, 2018 1:59 pm

https://www.wsj.com/articles/climate-fe ... 1524225600

It appears seal level rise - or the fear of a rise - is already impacting RE values in Florida. IMO it would be silly to ignore this risk which is increasingly being realized near term, not 50 years from now. It doesn't really matter if it is rising or not, what matters is the perception it is rising and that perception seems to be pretty well fixed at this point. As has been pointed out, insurance cover for places near the water or ai low elevation is also looming as a signifigant risk to property values. I have often wondered if "view of" might be better than "living on".

I "live on" the water in the California Delta area so I can relate to the concern.

smitcat
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Re: Retire in Florida or Alabama?

Post by smitcat » Thu Aug 16, 2018 2:04 pm

Jack FFR1846 wrote:
Thu Aug 16, 2018 1:56 pm
Colorado29 wrote:
Tue Aug 14, 2018 2:44 pm
Jack FFR1846 wrote:
Tue Aug 14, 2018 6:44 am
I'd lean towards Virginia. No alligators.

Why Virginia? Never been up there, but is there some nice retirement spots?
The wife and I have been looking for someplace for years. After going to Ft Myers, thinking that between Sanibel and the everlasting beaches of the west coast, we'd like it. Less hectic than the east coast. After a week in August, we crossed the entire state off our list. I realized that I hate it when the temp is anything over 70 degrees.

Anyways, just south of Virginia Beach, there are affordable, nicely set houses. I also did enough research to determine that it's just north of the "where alligators could be" line. We were looking there because the wife wants something near the beach. I could be in Colorado and do fine as I hate the beach. We'll likely just stay in our current house, west of Boston and go on trips.



I did get a kick out of a post up a bit saying that seawalls cure any of the rising sea issues. I guess that poster has never been to Miami. Sort of hard to build an effective seawall when some streets are below mean high tide levels.
FWIW - more people are killed by cows than alligators.

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bltkmt
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Re: Retire in Florida or Alabama?

Post by bltkmt » Thu Aug 16, 2018 2:08 pm

adamthesmythe wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 6:24 pm
Well it only matters what they think...but...

I would pay good money to not live in either Florida or Alabama.

I do consider Florida more civilized.
This.

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DanMahowny
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Re: Retire in Florida or Alabama?

Post by DanMahowny » Thu Aug 16, 2018 2:10 pm

bltkmt wrote:
Thu Aug 16, 2018 2:08 pm
adamthesmythe wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 6:24 pm
Well it only matters what they think...but...

I would pay good money to not live in either Florida or Alabama.

I do consider Florida more civilized.
This.
Please explain. Thanks man.
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Silk McCue
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Re: Retire in Florida or Alabama?

Post by Silk McCue » Thu Aug 16, 2018 2:18 pm

DanMahowny wrote:
Thu Aug 16, 2018 2:10 pm
bltkmt wrote:
Thu Aug 16, 2018 2:08 pm
adamthesmythe wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 6:24 pm
Well it only matters what they think...but...

I would pay good money to not live in either Florida or Alabama.

I do consider Florida more civilized.
This.
Please explain. Thanks man.
The original post and the “This” are condescending as well as ... . The posts add no value to this conversation and are more suitable for a Facebook post, not an investing board.

BTW - Born and raised Floridian.

Cheers

jehovasfitness
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Re: Retire in Florida or Alabama?

Post by jehovasfitness » Thu Aug 16, 2018 2:20 pm

adamthesmythe wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 6:24 pm
Well it only matters what they think...but...

I would pay good money to not live in either Florida or Alabama.

I do consider Florida more civilized.
:sharebeer

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bottlecap
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Re: Retire in Florida or Alabama?

Post by bottlecap » Thu Aug 16, 2018 3:35 pm

Beehave wrote:
Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:42 am
Lots of concert halls, theaters, museums, good schools, art galleries, interesting restaurants, and diverse museums and cultures where those Yankees congregate. To each her or his own... :beer or :sharebeer as you wish.
Yet for all that exposure, it still leaves one with a provincial attitude, a strongly held yet baseless belief that places where one's never been before are provincial themselves, and an eager willingness profess this sentiment - without any hint of irony - loudly in public.

To each his or her own indeed.

Anyway, off to the theatre!

JT

Beehave
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Re: Retire in Florida or Alabama?

Post by Beehave » Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:37 pm

bottlecap wrote:
Thu Aug 16, 2018 3:35 pm
Beehave wrote:
Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:42 am
Lots of concert halls, theaters, museums, good schools, art galleries, interesting restaurants, and diverse museums and cultures where those Yankees congregate. To each her or his own... :beer or :sharebeer as you wish.
Yet for all that exposure, it still leaves one with a provincial attitude, a strongly held yet baseless belief that places where one's never been before are provincial themselves, and an eager willingness profess this sentiment - without any hint of irony - loudly in public.

To each his or her own indeed.

Anyway, off to the theatre!

JT
Got it. Expressing the desire to avoid the presence of "Yankees" is not provincial, but expressing the idea that "Yankees" bring something good to the table is provincial. Thanks.

RollTide31457
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Re: Retire in Florida or Alabama?

Post by RollTide31457 » Fri Aug 17, 2018 8:09 am

bottlecap wrote:
Thu Aug 16, 2018 3:35 pm
Beehave wrote:
Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:42 am
Lots of concert halls, theaters, museums, good schools, art galleries, interesting restaurants, and diverse museums and cultures where those Yankees congregate. To each her or his own... :beer or :sharebeer as you wish.
Yet for all that exposure, it still leaves one with a provincial attitude, a strongly held yet baseless belief that places where one's never been before are provincial themselves, and an eager willingness profess this sentiment - without any hint of irony - loudly in public.

To each his or her own indeed.

Anyway, off to the theatre!

JT
Correct! Nothing worse than dealing with the typically uncouth coastal “elites.”

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darkhorse346
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Re: Retire in Florida or Alabama?

Post by darkhorse346 » Fri Aug 17, 2018 8:53 am

Colorado29 wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 6:07 pm
My parents live in Texas and have talked about retiring in some other state in the United States. They have considered Florida as a likely top candidate, but also have looked at Alabama. They've also considered "being retired" in Texas, but buying a house to live part of the year by the beach in either Florida or Alabama.

What advantages/disadvantages of retiring in each of these states? Same goes for just purchasing a house in either state. What are some things to consider when thinking this through?

They like both areas, but don't have any special feelings towards one or the other. There is no family out there, they just are looking for a tax friendly, or financially advantageous place to retire or spend some time.

Any advice would be appreciated!
Being such an important decision, if it is feasible for them, I'd suggest a Florida/Alabama tour. Really take the time to get know the areas, pros/cons, etc. Experience tells me to not fall into stereotyping any place, person, etc. Lived in and visited many places that have certain stereotypes (rude, uneducated, snobby, etc.) Don't fall for any of that.

I make better decisions based off what I know (facts), not what I think I know (theory/myths).

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friar1610
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Re: Retire in Florida or Alabama?

Post by friar1610 » Fri Aug 17, 2018 9:23 am

I live in a coastal town in the "south" (south of Boston, that is :happy ) but not ocean front. Our town and several nearby have taken some big hits from nor'easters in the past few years. My conclusions from watching this are:

- It's not all bad that I can't afford oceanfront property.
- If I had the money I woul love to live in a house with an ocean view but high enough to avoid flooding.
- I wouldn't trust a seawall to protect my property; I've seen them breached too often.

And to repeat what I said in an earlier post, those Florabama beaches are beautiful.
Friar1610

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bottlecap
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Re: Retire in Florida or Alabama?

Post by bottlecap » Fri Aug 17, 2018 9:29 am

Beehave wrote:
Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:37 pm
Got it. Expressing the desire to avoid the presence of "Yankees" is not provincial, but expressing the idea that "Yankees" bring something good to the table is provincial. Thanks.
You're welcome. I realize its hard to understand, but if the OP's father is from Texas, he will. Sometimes you don't want to be around people whose sole base of reference about you comes from 160 year-old stereotypes.

This thread is a great example. Questioning the level of civilization? Suggesting that there are no different cultures or foods? Ridiculous.
Demonstrably untrue. If you were to speak about a foreign country - any foreign country - that way, you be derided as an ignoramus in short order. Yet somehow it's acceptable if you are talking about certain areas of the U.S. that you've never spent much - or any - time in.

Just to give you a little perspective.

JT

Olemiss540
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Re: Retire in Florida or Alabama?

Post by Olemiss540 » Fri Aug 17, 2018 10:46 am

One person's fishing hole is another persons opera house. Culture is what you make it, and I don't see any issue as long as you don't claim your version is somehow superior just because it is your personal preference or somehow culturally superior due to its exclusivity.

One persons "Redneck Riviera" is another person's "Yuppie Snob Slugville".
I hold index funds because I do not overestimate my ability to pick stocks OR stock pickers.

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