Whole house generator

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doon
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Whole house generator

Post by doon »

I am in the process of getting quotes for a whole house generator. The range of quotes I have received are:

Low end - 16 KW - Generac - $8,400
Mid point - 20 KW - Kohler - $9,600
High end - 22 KW - Generac - $10,190

The sense I am getting is that they want to sell the biggest consumer product in their line up. Whenever I try to ask for limited circuits 11 KW option they say cost will be 500-1000 lower.

I understand that getting a whole house or limited circuits is a very personal decision. However I wanted to solicit inputs from fellow B'heads to truly get a sense of price for lower end of these generators. Is the price different truly this small that its better to take whole house version?

What about a 9 KW or 11 KW version of Generac or 10 or 12 KW from Kohler? Anyone installed this and how much did it cost you?

BTW I have 3400 Sq Ft home with Oven and HVAC as biggest power consumers. Having said that I can live with only essential circuits in case of power loss.
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GAAP
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Re: Whole house generator

Post by GAAP »

You can see list prices for gensets online. Google shows a 22KW Generac base price at about 5K without installation, delivery, etc.

There's not a lot of difference between a 22KW genset and an 11kw genset. What level of discount would you expect if you bought a car with the smaller engine instead of the bigger engine? Half or more of the install cost should be labor, most of which is duplicated between those options.

Generac has a decent sizing tool to get a much better idea of need and some model recommendations: http://www.generac.com/for-homeowners/h ... -generator.

The first question in my mind would be: do you want an automatic transfer or a tie-breaker? If you're truly looking for just the essentials, then the 2nd choice will be a little cheaper -- but you'll be hooking it up in the middle of the outage. You said "live with" essential circuits, sound to me like you would prefer everything. Hooking up a generator in a blizzard/hurricane is not my idea of fun...
dpm321
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Re: Whole house generator

Post by dpm321 »

First, you do not want Genrac, get the Kohler. Kohler manufactures their own motors and are much more reliable systems.

One problem I ran into when I first started looking for a "whole house" generator was that all the dealers sized the generator for the maximum possible load. This included AC and my woodshop. I kept pointing out that I could wait to use the workshop until I was off the generator and could probably live without AC for a short time as well. I finally found a Kohler dealer that installed a 14KW generator with auto transfer switch and a sensor for the AC. The sensor looks at capacity versus load and allows (or not) the AC to operate if the load allows. We've had it for 4 years with zero issues. By the way, the house square footage is not relevant to the problem. We get more use in winter than summer. We have 3800 sq ft and 14KW. It cost me $6800 installed.
arsenalfan
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Re: Whole house generator

Post by arsenalfan »

Your price seems fair; my HCOL east coast 20kw Kohler install with transfer switch = $9275 in 2012.

We have a subpanel, basically what we want on if the power's out for 3-7 days in winter or summer: heat/hotwater/entire kitchen (including all refrig/freeezer), first & second floor.

We did without the AC and the finished basement.

It's a lawnmower engine, change oil/spark plugs yourself, or have someone do it 2 visits per year, $200-350 per year maintenance contract. Expensive because where I am, there aren't many vendors - they work on the big building backup systems, no profit margin on small residential units.

Tip: Be sure the foundation of the unit is on a pad or poured concrete. They vibrate a ton and will get off-kilter otherwise.
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Blueskies123
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Re: Whole house generator

Post by Blueskies123 »

Are you factoring in a propane gas tank and permitting? In many places, it has be buried a few hundred feet from the house. Also, you do realize you cannot run every light and appliance at the same time, right. You will burn the generator out.
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glock19
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Re: Whole house generator

Post by glock19 »

In January of this year I installed a 22KW Natural gas powered Generac with automatic transfer switch. I did the complete install myself. I have had problems with the unit from day one. Fortunately, Generac is finally sending me a complete new generator which will be here in a couple of days. I am assuming the first one was just a lemon.

I have several neighbors that have had great success with Generac, but if I were starting over I would take a much closer look at Kohler.

As far as price, look at the online dealer's pricing on the generators. These are the base price on the generator shipped to you, so no installation pricing is included. By knowing this you can determine what your bids are reflecting as far as installation and generator costs on respective generator models.

Regarding the type and sizing of the unit is strictly up to your expectations of convenience. As you know, a 10-12KW generator will run the essentials. On the other end, a 22KW will run your entire home and an automatic transfer switch will change to generator power with no effort required by you. My generator will deliver up to 90 amps on nat gas. I turned on everything I could find in my 3500 sq. ft. house, including both A/C units, and my house was pulling slightly less than 70 amps.

Remember one thing about Generac. Any problem under warranty will have to be handled by your dealer. Generac will do absolutely nothing directly for the end consumer. Make sure you have a dealer that will go to bat for you on warranty issues!!! I think you will find more authorized Generac dealers than Kohler dealers, but I wouldn't let that deter your consideration of Kohler.

Good luck with your decision.
Last edited by glock19 on Wed Aug 08, 2018 8:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
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ResearchMed
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Re: Whole house generator

Post by ResearchMed »

doon wrote: Tue Aug 07, 2018 1:12 pm I am in the process of getting quotes for a whole house generator. The range of quotes I have received are:

Low end - 16 KW - Generac - $8,400
Mid point - 20 KW - Kohler - $9,600
High end - 22 KW - Generac - $10,190

The sense I am getting is that they want to sell the biggest consumer product in their line up. Whenever I try to ask for limited circuits 11 KW option they say cost will be 500-1000 lower.

I understand that getting a whole house or limited circuits is a very personal decision. However I wanted to solicit inputs from fellow B'heads to truly get a sense of price for lower end of these generators. Is the price different truly this small that its better to take whole house version?

What about a 9 KW or 11 KW version of Generac or 10 or 12 KW from Kohler? Anyone installed this and how much did it cost you?

BTW I have 3400 Sq Ft home with Oven and HVAC as biggest power consumers. Having said that I can live with only essential circuits in case of power loss.
doon: There are several other threads, some of them lengthy, on just this topic: "generators".
You might want to do a search and then read through some of those for more information/opinions.

We put in a nat gas Generac that will switch on automatically, and it's been problem free.

After years of intermittent power losses, "of course" once we put it in, there were no problems for about 2 years, but the weekly self tests reminded us it was there and working.

In the more recent past, we've again had intermittent outages, from very brief to several hours.
Each time, that trusty Generac kicked in as needed.

We just need to have the wiring re-done, as we've realized we'd like some different circuitry included.
We didn't include everything; we don't need the electric clothes dryer, for example. We put in lights on each floor, plus each stairwell, but we'll redo some of the lights on the second floor (main bedrooms and bathrooms).

We'll also double check IF it's possible to have it work the AC, if other circuits are *not* used.
In retrospect, we probably should have gone up slightly in size.
However, this IS for "emergency use", and it's worked just fine for that.

RM
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greyny
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Re: Whole house generator

Post by greyny »

We had a 12 KW Kohler generator installed with a transfer switch for $6,500 last year. It is enough to keep maybe 80% of our house running. Our electric dryer didn't make the cut, but we already use a drying rack instead much of the time.

Obviously we haven't lost power for an extended period since we got it. The piece of mind it has provided for our situation has made it worth it for me. I had been debating just getting a portable generator to keep on hand, but I'm satisfied with our choice.
carguyny
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Re: Whole house generator

Post by carguyny »

Just keep in mind that Nat Gas pipelines are increasingly relying on electricity for gas compression and processing. There is an increasing probability that in a severe power failure that the gas supply is compromised. In recent years, due to increased nat gas power generation, regional transmission operators were also given the ability to control Nat Gas flows and ensure they're supplying centralized power plants before individual homes/businesses.

In short, the case for a Nat Gas generator at home continues to get weaker. I personally don't care about an hour or 2 or even 5 - I would want something that I have 100% certainty will work in a 7+ day power failure and I don't see that as Nat Gas generators. Something like a Tesla Powerwall and Solar is a much better, but more expensive solution. Prices will come down, so its up to you if you can wait.
longbets
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Re: Whole house generator

Post by longbets »

The problem I have found is that you need to choose natural gas as a fuel source to do it right and you have two options: utility supply or a stand alone tank.

As someone else pointed out, in a true emergency the gas may or may not be available from the utility company. To do it right, you need your own onsite tank. That requires lots of permits and the tank size can matter more than your generator size. You may buy a 20kw generator - but if you only have a small tank you're not going to have enough fuel to last long.

We recently went through this and decided on a two part setup contingent on NOT having the whole house powered at once. A HVAC unit is HUGE power draw in itself. We selected the 8-10 circuits we wanted powered (lights mostly, microwave oven, fridge, freezer, radio, tv, wifi internet) and we have two separate generator systems: a portable gas honda unit and a larger unit. If it's an outage where we don't need a lot, we use the small Honda units. They sip gas so keeping them filled is simple. We get 4000 watts which is more than enough to power lights and a microwave.

If it's an extended outage we switch to the larger unit to power the fridge and freezer along with everything mentioned above - mind you both can go hours without power before we worry with food spoilage, etc. Fuel is onsite LPG tank.

With the savings, we are focusing on LED lighting everywhere through the house and making things as energy efficient as possible - meaning less load on a generator. The 20kw whole house "I can keep my HVAC running during a hurricane" simply has a poor ROI where we are at - we have power outages 3-4 times a year. The portable generators we have can be put in the back of our car for camping, used for tailgating, etc. so we use them a lot. Better ROI. If it's really hot that we need HVAC we will just head out of town to a comfortable hotel.
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ResearchMed
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Re: Whole house generator

Post by ResearchMed »

I forgot to mention that the reason we initially got a generator was due to concern about our sump pump.
IF the power went off for too long, the marine batteries wouldn't last, and storms are getting longer.
(We made the decision, after equivocating too long, after Sandy. It didn't affect us, but it did give us pause...)

And we also didn't want to risk having pipes freeze if it were winter.

It's automated, so if we aren't home, it will still switch on.
We travel a lot now, and our housesitter isn't always right on site.

For everything else, we could get by with the heat relatively low, and very few lights, etc.
In some cases, *we* could go to a hotel, or leave town, but we wanted to do our best to keep the house safe from the aforementioned risks.

RM
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pshonore
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Re: Whole house generator

Post by pshonore »

longbets wrote: Tue Aug 07, 2018 9:31 pm The problem I have found is that you need to choose natural gas as a fuel source to do it right and you have two options: utility supply or a stand alone tank.

As someone else pointed out, in a true emergency the gas may or may not be available from the utility company. To do it right, you need your own onsite tank. That requires lots of permits and the tank size can matter more than your generator size. You may buy a 20kw generator - but if you only have a small tank you're not going to have enough fuel to last long.

I've never heard of having one's own natural gas tank. How does it get filled and refilled? Propane of course can work that way but NG?
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Blueskies123
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Re: Whole house generator

Post by Blueskies123 »

You call the delivery company and they drive out with a big truck and fill it. Then comes the invoice. Of course, if you never or rarely fill it you will only have to buy gas once.
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pshonore
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Re: Whole house generator

Post by pshonore »

Blueskies123 wrote: Wed Aug 08, 2018 7:55 am You call the delivery company and they drive out with a big truck and fill it. Then comes the invoice. Of course, if you never or rarely fill it you will only have to buy gas once.
I'm not aware of any companies who deliver NG in my area. There are lots who deliver Propane (which is not interchangeable with NG AFAIK)
jharkin
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Re: Whole house generator

Post by jharkin »

Haven't read the whole thread yet. ... but the very first question I ask people on generator threads is:

"Why do you think you need a whole house generator?"

- Do you loose power frequently?
- When you loose power, do you often loose it long enough that waiting the situation out with flashlights is not practical? (i.e. for days or weeks)
- Do you live in a cold state and loose power often in winter when freezing pies, etc is a concern?
- Do you have large critical loads like a 240v well pump?

For many people in mild climates, you can often just go to a hotel whenever hte power is out and come out ahead financial vs. buying a generator. If you are in a cold climate and worry about the house freezing, keep in mind an expensive automatic backup is not the only option. You could get a large portable and a transfer panel - just enough to keep the heat and water on and a few critical circuits.

In our case outages are infrequent, but they have lasted a couple days once or twice, and we are in a cold climate where just leaving the house for days could mean burst pipes. We are on city water and have gas for heat and cooking so we don't have any high wattage 240v loads other than the clothes dryer. We do have a damp basement and a sump pump.

My solution is a wood stove for heat and a 3500 watt contractor portable ($400) with a transfer panel/input socket ($250, self install). I have it setup so it can run the boiler for heat/hot water, the basement sump pump, the septic pump, a couple lighting circuits (kitchen, bath, family room), and a kitchen appliance circuit (mainly for keeping the refrigerator cold).

People buy these giant systems but the few times Ive needed to use my little Genny i haven't even run it much over half load. Just because your house has a 200amp panel (48KW) doesnt mean it actually uses anywhere near 200 amps... If I do the math from my electric bill my average usage over a month is only around 1200w. The largest peak Ive ever seen on my whole house power monitor is about 8kW. if you have electic heat you might peak at 20k. The generator need be no larger than the peak load of your minimum, critical loads.


When we have long outages I usually run the generator for a couple hours in the morning and a couple hours in the evening, just enough to keep the refrigerated food cold, make hot water for showers, charge up flashlight batteries, etc. Used this way we could likely survive a week long outage on 10 gallons of gas. The wood stove can provide whole house heating indefinitely, and the gas range satisfies all cooking needs (you can even make coffee with an old fashion perk pot). If the kids get bored they can read books and play board games. If we need to be online for some reason we can use an ipad and turn on the cell phone wifi hotpot.... No reasons to burn gallons of gasoline just to maintain the internet addiction.
Last edited by jharkin on Wed Aug 08, 2018 8:47 am, edited 2 times in total.
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DanMahowny
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Re: Whole house generator

Post by DanMahowny »

I have a Kohler whole house generator. Spent around $10k on the unit.

Power outages are infrequent, but glad I own it.
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pshonore
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Re: Whole house generator

Post by pshonore »

I like your approach but would size it a little bigger. We have a 240V well pump so we have a 6KW gen. And we probably burn 5-6 gallons a day. Doubt that spouse could start the generator in my absence. Also the generator is quite noisy but you learn to live with it.
glock19
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Re: Whole house generator

Post by glock19 »

pshonore wrote: Wed Aug 08, 2018 7:50 am
longbets wrote: Tue Aug 07, 2018 9:31 pm The problem I have found is that you need to choose natural gas as a fuel source to do it right and you have two options: utility supply or a stand alone tank.

As someone else pointed out, in a true emergency the gas may or may not be available from the utility company. To do it right, you need your own onsite tank. That requires lots of permits and the tank size can matter more than your generator size. You may buy a 20kw generator - but if you only have a small tank you're not going to have enough fuel to last long.

I've never heard of having one's own natural gas tank. How does it get filled and refilled? Propane of course can work that way but NG?
I've never heard of using Compressed Natural Gas in a residential situation either. Propane is the standard for generators and is a great choice. The Generac is 10% more efficient on propane than NG. The output of the 22KW model is actually 20KW running on NG.

The choice of propane does come with a cost. Generac recommends a minimum tank size of 250 gal for the 22KW model. When you look at run time, a 1000 gal tank would be much more preferable. You are talking several thousand dollars more for a tank and the initial fill. Unless your whole hose is propane powered, and you have a contract with a propane delivery service, I think you will find the cost per hour of running your generator higher than NG.

With that said, if I would have had a good location for a tank, I would have gone propane. I still would not hesitate going NG.
badger42
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Re: Whole house generator

Post by badger42 »

For those sorts of prices, why not go with a pair of Tesla Powerball units (6k/ea)? Runtime is likely comparabale to your onsite fuel storage, no moving parts, and you could still add solar later for even longer off-the-grid runtime.
jharkin
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Re: Whole house generator

Post by jharkin »

badger42 wrote: Wed Aug 08, 2018 8:38 am For those sorts of prices, why not go with a pair of Tesla Powerball units (6k/ea)? Runtime is likely comparabale to your onsite fuel storage, no moving parts, and you could still add solar later for even longer off-the-grid runtime.
If you don't have rooftop solar to recharge it, a powerwall has only the storage capacity of about 30 minutes to 1 hour run time of those large standby generators being discussed in the first post. Granted most real world usage is a lot lower but still the powerwall probably has a capacity measured in hours vs. generators that can run days, or indefinitely with refueling.

Even if you do have rooftop solar, it might not be producing much exactly when you need it - if for instance you have that week long outage during an ice storm and the panels are buried under a foot of snow.
Last edited by jharkin on Wed Aug 08, 2018 9:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
Broken Man 1999
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Re: Whole house generator

Post by Broken Man 1999 »

I live in Florida, and have used my back-up generator a few times over the years, most recently last year.

When I first bought my generator, I thought about whether to buy a whole house, or a portable generator. After a bit of time researching, I decided to buy a portable generator.

My decision was based mostly on the fuel issue. It is not unusual to be without power for an extended period of time. And whole house generators require more fuel.

I would dearly love to have the auto-starting whole house setup, but I just am not confident I could keep it in fuel.

If gas powered, you must store, and for maximum usage, you must store a lot.

If NG powered, you must hope the line isn't compromised along the route. NG wasn't an option for me anyway.

Propane has worked well for me, and by choosing a small portable generator (8000w), I do not stress about the usage, as I have a 120g propane tank.

We do not run the generator continuously, which also conserves fuel.

Also the portable generator is stored inside the garage out of the elements, until needed. The unit is started by a battery, which has a trickle charger that keeps the battery fully charged. Neighbors help us put the generator in place, and hookup is easy. I have a gas head right at the generator location, hooks up with the hose to unit. The output connection plugs into a socket on the garage wall that goes to the transfer panel. Easy peasy.

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queso
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Re: Whole house generator

Post by queso »

We went whole house Kohler on NG. It's dual fuel so could have installed propane tank(s) and plumbed that up as well in the event we have no NG. We decided that risk wasn't worth insuring against. The only time I remember hearing about NG outages were during Katrina, Sandy and some of the big storms and if those happened near me I'm pretty sure whether or not I had propane backup would be pretty far down the list of worries. You can go as far down the rabbit hole with preparations as you want - NG, backed up by propane, backed up with a battery bank, solar panels and then a gasoline portable or even a redundant primary genset in case the main fails. It kind of boils down to your own determination of what is a reasonable cost vs. likelihood of needing that many layers of protection.
GAAP
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Re: Whole house generator

Post by GAAP »

Two notes on Propane vs. Natural Gas.

You will note that the propane model of the same generator is rated for slightly more KWH than the natural gas version because Propane has slightly more heat energy. The difference should not be a reason to choose one over the other.

If you want to use natural gas keep in mind that the supply has to support both the generator and any natural gas appliances that you have. It is quite possible that adding a whole-house generator will require more gas supply than you have.
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queso
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Re: Whole house generator

Post by queso »

GAAP wrote: Wed Aug 08, 2018 9:17 am Two notes on Propane vs. Natural Gas.

You will note that the propane model of the same generator is rated for slightly more KWH than the natural gas version because Propane has slightly more heat energy. The difference should not be a reason to choose one over the other.

If you want to use natural gas keep in mind that the supply has to support both the generator and any natural gas appliances that you have. It is quite possible that adding a whole-house generator will require more gas supply than you have.
Good points. On the NG supply, the installer will work with the gas company to figure out what you have running to your house and if it is sufficient. That adds significantly to the cost if it isn't. Our line was, but they had to replace our meter with a split meter that supplies more gas/pressure to the generator vs. the rest of the house (I forget the working pressures, but I'm sure you can find it online). The installer handled the order with the gas company and they just sent us the bill. I think it was $300-$500.
longbets
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Re: Whole house generator

Post by longbets »

pshonore wrote: Wed Aug 08, 2018 7:50 am
longbets wrote: Tue Aug 07, 2018 9:31 pm The problem I have found is that you need to choose natural gas as a fuel source to do it right and you have two options: utility supply or a stand alone tank.

As someone else pointed out, in a true emergency the gas may or may not be available from the utility company. To do it right, you need your own onsite tank. That requires lots of permits and the tank size can matter more than your generator size. You may buy a 20kw generator - but if you only have a small tank you're not going to have enough fuel to last long.

I've never heard of having one's own natural gas tank. How does it get filled and refilled? Propane of course can work that way but NG?

I mis-typed - we utilized LPG, not NG, in the tank setup. The tank is also used to power our LPG fireplace.
longbets
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Re: Whole house generator

Post by longbets »

glock19 wrote: Wed Aug 08, 2018 8:36 am The choice of propane does come with a cost. Generac recommends a minimum tank size of 250 gal for the 22KW model. When you look at run time, a 1000 gal tank would be much more preferable. You are talking several thousand dollars more for a tank and the initial fill. Unless your whole hose is propane powered, and you have a contract with a propane delivery service, I think you will find the cost per hour of running your generator higher than NG.

With that said, if I would have had a good location for a tank, I would have gone propane. I still would not hesitate going NG.
I looked at 1000gal tanks and the setup and regulations in placing them in our area were very restrictive. I would love to have a big tank like that buried underground which was very cost prohibitive, and we believe permits were needed. I could imagine filling the thing would cost an arm and a leg, and the company we have would charge us each year if we didn't at least 80% of the gas....essentially charging me a fee for having them come out to fill it to make it worth their time. I honestly don't believe we would put a dent in that much gas as well with our current setup. If we had more appliances using it (stove, dryer, hot water tank, etc.), it may make it worth it, but in our situation it didn't make sense.
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tcassette
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Re: Whole house generator

Post by tcassette »

dpm321 wrote: Tue Aug 07, 2018 4:41 pm First, you do not want Genrac, get the Kohler. Kohler manufactures their own motors and are much more reliable systems.
Please point to documented proof of your statements. Generac makes their own motors as well, and I have yet to find any accurate sources of reliability comparisons among generators.
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Re: Whole house generator

Post by pshonore »

tcassette wrote: Wed Aug 08, 2018 9:59 am
dpm321 wrote: Tue Aug 07, 2018 4:41 pm First, you do not want Genrac, get the Kohler. Kohler manufactures their own motors and are much more reliable systems.
Please point to documented proof of your statements. Generac makes their own motors as well, and I have yet to find any accurate sources of reliability comparisons among generators.
Consumer Reports Sept 2018 issue. Among large home standby, all five (Generac, Champion, Kohler, Cummins and Briggs) ranked almost equally well.
Thegame14
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Re: Whole house generator

Post by Thegame14 »

Why not just get solar panels with a battery? My solar panels are about 12KWH and cost after Govt 30% rebate $18,000, without a battery. The battery I was told is about $5-8K additional, and then you would get 30% off that as well, so for about 20-23K you can get the same effect of having a generator, while not having to worry about fuel.

Also the solar panels increase the value of your home. Also we have zero electric bill each month for a savings of $2.5K per year, plus we generate an SREC, Solar Renewable Energy Credit about 10 a year, and sell them for about $200 each. so that is about $4,500 positive per year so a payback of about 4-5 years, and the solar panels have a 30 year warranty for parts and performance, and have a positive ROI of about 100K total, not NPV.

And you would be going green and helping to save the world.....I guess the only issue is how much sunlight you have on your house, and how big of a battery to get.
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ResearchMed
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Re: Whole house generator

Post by ResearchMed »

Thegame14 wrote: Wed Aug 08, 2018 10:56 am Why not just get solar panels with a battery? My solar panels are about 12KWH and cost after Govt 30% rebate $18,000, without a battery. The battery I was told is about $5-8K additional, and then you would get 30% off that as well, so for about 20-23K you can get the same effect of having a generator, while not having to worry about fuel.

Also the solar panels increase the value of your home. Also we have zero electric bill each month for a savings of $2.5K per year, plus we generate an SREC, Solar Renewable Energy Credit about 10 a year, and sell them for about $200 each. so that is about $4,500 positive per year so a payback of about 4-5 years, and the solar panels have a 30 year warranty for parts and performance, and have a positive ROI of about 100K total, not NPV.

And you would be going green and helping to save the world.....I guess the only issue is how much sunlight you have on your house, and how big of a battery to get.
We would have loved solar. Or think we would have, but we never looked into it seriously.

We just don't have enough sunlight, and are least likely to have sunlight, for an extended time, when we most need an extra power source, such as major weather conditions (hurricanes or other extended storms, or blizzards, when there's no sun plus the "snow cover" problem).

For those in very sunny climates, it's probably ideal. (Or are there potential power problems that would also be associated with lack of sun in those locales, too?)

BTW, every time I read one of these threads, about how much better Kohler (or anything else) is than Generac, I get really annoyed that we just took the advice of our long-term HVAC/plumber "guy" (who owns the his business).
But we have had no trouble with it (knock on wood, etc.).
We now have it send us a message whenever it turns on or off, so we know about those weekly tests no matter where we are, or if there is an actual power outage. It will also "announce" at least some of the service needs. (Adding this later was surprisingly inexpensive.)

RM
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GAAP
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Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2016 12:41 pm

Re: Whole house generator

Post by GAAP »

Thegame14 wrote: Wed Aug 08, 2018 10:56 am Why not just get solar panels with a battery? My solar panels are about 12KWH and cost after Govt 30% rebate $18,000, without a battery. The battery I was told is about $5-8K additional, and then you would get 30% off that as well, so for about 20-23K you can get the same effect of having a generator, while not having to worry about fuel.

Also the solar panels increase the value of your home. Also we have zero electric bill each month for a savings of $2.5K per year, plus we generate an SREC, Solar Renewable Energy Credit about 10 a year, and sell them for about $200 each. so that is about $4,500 positive per year so a payback of about 4-5 years, and the solar panels have a 30 year warranty for parts and performance, and have a positive ROI of about 100K total, not NPV.

And you would be going green and helping to save the world.....I guess the only issue is how much sunlight you have on your house, and how big of a battery to get.
Sealed batteries are only good for 7-10 years, in spite of what the warranty is -- and the capacity decreases over time. Batteries and solar panels each have their own environmental issues with heavy metals and rare earths, but don't directly generate greenhouse gasses. A battery system sufficient to provide 12KWH for multiple days is going to be much bigger and much more expensive. It would also require bigger solar panels to recharge the batteries every day while simultaneously providing power for the house.

The ideal thing would be solar for "typical" usage, plus a generator backup for longer outages.
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tcassette
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Location: Southeast Tennessee

Re: Whole house generator

Post by tcassette »

pshonore wrote: Wed Aug 08, 2018 10:11 am
tcassette wrote: Wed Aug 08, 2018 9:59 am
dpm321 wrote: Tue Aug 07, 2018 4:41 pm First, you do not want Genrac, get the Kohler. Kohler manufactures their own motors and are much more reliable systems.
Please point to documented proof of your statements. Generac makes their own motors as well, and I have yet to find any accurate sources of reliability comparisons among generators.
Consumer Reports Sept 2018 issue. Among large home standby, all five (Generac, Champion, Kohler, Cummins and Briggs) ranked almost equally well.
Thanks. The only Consumer Reports I have seen since unsubscribing a few years ago are the ancient ones at my dentist's office. But that's a whole different thread.
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