LTC strategy: make health your hobby

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praxis
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LTC strategy: make health your hobby

Post by praxis »

I'm soon to be 70 and am considering LTC costs and am reading a BH thread about self insuring where a poster said his parents (in their 80's) had improved their quality of life and decreased the risk of using up their savings in LTC by adopting a strong, health-focused lifestyle upon retirement and now, years later, were less worried about lifetime LTC costs because they'd stayed healthy.

It makes sense to me to postpone health problems if I can. We can't control all aspects of our health, but if we could help postpone serious illness until later in life by making some healthier choices, why not?

Changing our mind is hard. Changing diet and exercise habits late in life is hard but the thought of me or my wife running out of money providing care for the other is scary. Healthcare costs are unpredictable and I can't provide for all possible future risks by self insuring or LTC insurance.

This is a health question, but relates to LTC cost risk.

What are the top tips from retirees who are proactive about staying healthy as they age?
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Re: LTC strategy: make health your hobby

Post by zmaqoptyxbglp »

Changing diet and exercise habits late in life is hard
My grandfather in his mid nineties jogs for almost half an hour daily, and has very good food habits (especially compared to mine :?). I think diet and exercise are THE two main things you can control, from a non-financial perspective.
Point
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Re: LTC strategy: make health your hobby

Post by Point »

Agreed. What you can do is work on the condition of your health. Coincidentially, I joined the YMCA recently and am working on cardio and weight/resistance training. Diet too.
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tadamsmar
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Re: LTC strategy: make health your hobby

Post by tadamsmar »

Healthy individuals might ironically be more in need of care, as living a long life also means experiencing greater odds for physical or mental decline as well.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/wadepfau/2 ... ad56584ceb
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Re: LTC strategy: make health your hobby

Post by 57Ab90tH4 »

In addition to focusing on health (immediate benefits because you feel better immediately), take a look at your home. Is it conducive to aging? Criteria that I would consider...

Near medical facilities. (Don't want a 200 mile drive to a good hospital).
No or few steps or ability to add a chair lift when necessary.
Accessible bathrooms - low entry, grab bars etc.
Manageable maintenance.
Access to in home health care and other support personnel like meals on wheels, housekeepers etc. (Trend is away from LTC facilities and more in home health care.)

Keep it simple... diet, moderate exercise, no smoking, moderate alcohol, manage RX carefully and do your homework before you start popping pills.

The worst case scenario (long expensive stay in a LTC facility) does not play out very often, although it is certainly a possibility.
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Re: LTC strategy: make health your hobby

Post by golfCaddy »

Staying healthy is an admirable goal, but not because it eliminates or even reduces the need for long term care. Someone who drops dead of a heart attack at 55 will never need LTC. Someone who makes all the right decisions and lives to 85 has a 50%+ probability of some form of dementia. Healthy individuals may have a higher lifetime need for LTC.
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Re: LTC strategy: make health your hobby

Post by adamthesmythe »

Walk every day. Do more if at all possible.

Hate to say it, but I assume no intelligent person smokes. Other than that, moderation in all things, unless your particular medical conditions require abstinence.
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Re: LTC strategy: make health your hobby

Post by randomguy »

adamthesmythe wrote: Sat Jul 28, 2018 7:10 pm Walk every day. Do more if at all possible.

Hate to say it, but I assume no intelligent person smokes. Other than that, moderation in all things, unless your particular medical conditions require abstinence.
I bet smoking is a great way of reducing LTC costs. You die earlier and tend to avoid the things like dementia that lead to long stays. I doubt the higher rate of strokes makes up for that given that they tend to result in relatively short stays. And the massive heart attacks will reduce your chances of ever needing LTC:) And of course it is also a great way of handling sequence of risks when your odds of making it 30 years are much lower:)

The post above sums it up. Living healthy isn't going to avoid LTC costs. It is just going to push of by several years and could make them worse. An unhealthy 75 year old who enters LTC facility, is likely to die in a couple of years. The really healthy 80 year old who ends with dementia might have better odds of making it 5 years.

You live a healthy lifestyle because it will make those years up until you enter the LTC facility a heck of a lot better.
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Re: LTC strategy: make health your hobby

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Re: LTC strategy: make health your hobby

Post by willthrill81 »

golfCaddy wrote: Sat Jul 28, 2018 7:08 pmHealthy individuals may have a higher lifetime need for LTC.
Precisely. :beer

The person who lives to 100 is probably much more likely to need LTC than someone who dies at 70.

And with regard to medical expenses, healthy living may reduce expenses per year of life lived, but the total costs over a lifetime may be higher.

Actually, dying at the point of retirement solves a great many financial problems.
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Re: LTC strategy: make health your hobby

Post by Nate79 »

I don't think any of this really matters. You can kid yourself that you are reducing the likelihood of needing LTC but there are MANY things that can put you in some type of LTC situation that was completely out of your control.
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Re: LTC strategy: make health your hobby

Post by camillus »

Somewhere in my education I picked up a CNA license (certified nurse assistant), that is, the person who bathes and changes the elderly in nursing homes (see my avatar).

Because of that training & experience, my goal upon entering assisted living is to weigh as little as possible. I'm 6'4" and would like to weigh closer to 200 lbs than 300 lbs when I am totally dependent.

Also - I believe I've read that low calorie diets are consistent with longevity.
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david99
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Re: LTC strategy: make health your hobby

Post by david99 »

I think that making healthy lifestyle choices such as eating well and staying physically and mentally active may postpone the need for LTC but not avoid it. If you make it to 90 you will probably need assisted living or a nursing home. Still I would rather be healthy in my retirement years and enjoy all the money that I saved and worry about LTC at a later time.
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Re: LTC strategy: make health your hobby

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afan
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Re: LTC strategy: make health your hobby

Post by afan »

The likelihood of ending up in long term care is too unpredictable for this plan to work. Many of the things that can happen are independent of the lifestyle one adopts at 70. Some have nothing to do with healthy lifestyle at all. Others, many others, depend on the healthiness of lifestyle all along. Changing at 70 does not undo all those decades of low fitness and bad diet.

Some bad health outcomes depend on genetics, which you cannot change. It is not as simple as the later life health of parents. Genes interact in complicated ways and a family history will give only an incomplete picture of risk.

The hard part about LTC insurance is that it is expensive. I believe it is still true that "Those who need it cannot afford it. Those who can afford it do not need it."


Adopting a healthy lifestyle is a great idea, but it is not at all a substitute for a long term care plan.
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Re: LTC strategy: make health your hobby

Post by Rupert »

afan wrote: Sun Jul 29, 2018 8:40 am The likelihood of ending up in long term care is too unpredictable for this plan to work. Many of the things that can happen are independent of the lifestyle one adopts at 70. Some have nothing to do with healthy lifestyle at all. Others, many others, depend on the healthiness of lifestyle all along. Changing at 70 does not undo all those decides of low fitness and bad diet.

Some bad health outcomes depend on genetics, which you cannot change. It is not as simple as the later life health of parents. Genes interact in complicated ways and a family history will give only an incomplete picture of risk.

The hard part about LTC insurance is that it is expensive. I believe it is still true that "Those who need it cannot afford it. Those who can afford it do not need it."


Adopting a healthy lifestyle is a great idea, but it is not at all a substitute for a long term care plan.
+1. I recall reading a study once that said that to a surprisingly large extent our health is determined by what our grandparents ate and how they lived during their formative years. When a woman is pregnant, she is, after all, carrying not just her child but also all of her child's potential children. And Johns Hopkins recently reported that a surprisingly large number of cancers (as high as 90% for some types of cancer) are caused by random DNA copying errors, not lifestyle/environmental factors. The longer you live the more opportunities there are for random DNA copying errors to occur. So life is a crapshoot for which you most definitely need a Plan A and a Plan B and, given how long we're now living, probably a Plan C.
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Re: LTC strategy: make health your hobby

Post by Shackleton »

Defining "healthy eating" is a good place to start. The diet that has been pushed by government agencies (with funding from many industries) for the last 50-60 years is NOT based on sound science, nor is it how our bodies evolved to eat/live (high carb/low fat). I think many people would be good to start by questioning many of the things that they hold as absolute truths.
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Re: LTC strategy: make health your hobby

Post by Freefun »

praxis wrote: Sat Jul 28, 2018 4:50 pm

What are the top tips from retirees who are proactive about staying healthy as they age?
I'm staying mentally active.
Remember when you wanted what you currently have?
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Re: LTC strategy: make health your hobby

Post by afan »

Freefun wrote: Sun Jul 29, 2018 9:14 am
praxis wrote: Sat Jul 28, 2018 4:50 pm

What are the top tips from retirees who are proactive about staying healthy as they age?
I'm staying mentally active.
And working as long as your ability permits.
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Re: LTC strategy: make health your hobby

Post by Rick Rock »

randomguy wrote: Sat Jul 28, 2018 8:53 pm
adamthesmythe wrote: Sat Jul 28, 2018 7:10 pm Walk every day. Do more if at all possible.

Hate to say it, but I assume no intelligent person smokes. Other than that, moderation in all things, unless your particular medical conditions require abstinence.
I bet smoking is a great way of reducing LTC costs. You die earlier and tend to avoid the things like dementia that lead to long stays. I doubt the higher rate of strokes makes up for that given that they tend to result in relatively short stays. And the massive heart attacks will reduce your chances of ever needing LTC:) And of course it is also a great way of handling sequence of risks when your odds of making it 30 years are much lower:)
I know this was slightly tongue in cheek, but coming from a proud family lineage of smokers, it doesn't always work it that way... long hospital and LTC stays due to COPD, helicopter Flights for Life from rural homes to urban hospitals (yes - multiple flights), fascinating and rare but ultimately deadly forms of cancer and the resultant experimental treatments...

Not all of the endings that smoking facilitates are rapid (or extended, as in my experiences) but they all come far too soon. And at far too high of a financial cost
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Re: LTC strategy: make health your hobby

Post by willthrill81 »

goaties wrote: Sun Jul 29, 2018 8:25 am This is just one woman's opinion, but I have shepherded two parents to the grave and have watched as my friends and cousins have done the same for theirs.

Dementia. Can't predict it. Can't control whether you'll get it. And you may live for many years (my dad went at least 10!) needing 24-hour care. Physical disabilities, such as those you avoid by living a healthy lifestyle, are not nearly as expensive to manage because you can be trusted to be left alone in your home. Having a CNA come in for a couple hours a day to help you bathe/shop/cook is not so expensive. But round-the-clock care....whole other ballgame!

So far, research into the causes of the many forms of dementia is inconclusive and contradictory. It's still a crapshoot, as far as I'm concerned. A very expensive crapshoot.
+1

From what I've seen, a large proportion of those in nursing homes suffer from a mental illness of some sort, usually dementia or Alzheimer's.
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Re: LTC strategy: make health your hobby

Post by TravelforFun »

camillus wrote: Sun Jul 29, 2018 1:41 am Somewhere in my education I picked up a CNA license (certified nurse assistant), that is, the person who bathes and changes the elderly in nursing homes (see my avatar).

Because of that training & experience, my goal upon entering assisted living is to weigh as little as possible. I'm 6'4" and would like to weigh closer to 200 lbs than 300 lbs when I am totally dependent.

Also - I believe I've read that low calorie diets are consistent with longevity.
My father in law is in a nursing home and gets around in a wheelchair. When we want to take time somewhere, it takes two of us to lift him out of the wheelchair and put him in the car even though he's a skinny guy. I do feel sorry for the CNAs.

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Re: LTC strategy: make health your hobby

Post by regularguy455 »

adamthesmythe wrote: Sat Jul 28, 2018 7:10 pm Walk every day. Do more if at all possible.

Hate to say it, but I assume no intelligent person smokes. Other than that, moderation in all things, unless your particular medical conditions require abstinence.
The other poster had an interesting point. Smoking or staying relatively unhealthy likely eliminates the need for LTC. From what I have observed, most people beyond a certain age have a low quality of life. The health, social and economic quality of most individuals significantly decreases as one creeps into the 70s and 80s.

[OT comment removed by admin LadyGeek]
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Re: LTC strategy: make health your hobby

Post by regularguy455 »

Ok maybe the 70s is a stretch these days, but how many people do you know in their 80s or 90s that have rich and fulfilling lives? I’d be willing to bet many do not.
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Re: LTC strategy: make health your hobby

Post by ChinchillaWhiplash »

I personally know people in their 70's that started doing Crossfit which has vastly improved their physical and mental well being. One of them is now doing Spartan Races and other strenous physical activities. Working out/staying active in your older age will definitly help you stay healthier longer. My parents are 91 and 89 and are just now having serious health issues. They are still living on their own and able to drive, etc. Good diet and staying active has kept them going. I'm in my 50's and do Crossfit which has helped my stay fit. Now just need to work on my diet. I definitly see it as an investment in my future health and hope it will keep medical costs down later.
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Re: LTC strategy: make health your hobby

Post by LadyGeek »

This thread is now in the Personal Consumer Issues forum (how you spend your money and your time).

Also see: Tips for staying active / injury-free into older age

Update: I removed some off-topic comments related to life-ending situations. The discussion was getting derailed.
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Re: LTC strategy: make health your hobby

Post by InMyDreams »

tadamsmar wrote: Sat Jul 28, 2018 5:07 pm
Healthy individuals might ironically be more in need of care, as living a long life also means experiencing greater odds for physical or mental decline as well.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/wadepfau/2 ... ad56584ceb
OTH, The Okinawa Program cites statistics that living a long and healthy life means fewer terminal years of disability and dependence
https://www.amazon.com/Okinawa-Program- ... ig+Willcox

another book I was going to mention, Miriam Nelson's Strong Women Stay Young, which includes the study she did on re-mobilizing nursing home patients.
https://www.amazon.com/Strong-Women-You ... lson+books
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Re: LTC strategy: make health your hobby

Post by 3-20Characters »

Blue Zones are regions of the world where people live much longer than average. The term first appeared in the November 2005 National Geographic magazine cover story "The Secrets of a Long Life"[1] by Dan Buettner. Buettner identified five geographic areas where people live statistically longest: Okinawa (Japan); Sardinia (Italy); Nicoya (Costa Rica); Icaria(Greece) and among the Seventh-day Adventists in Loma Linda, California. He offers an explanation, based on empirical data and first hand observations, as to why these populations live healthier and longer lives.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Zone

blue zones diet...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1zzLvGXBIE&t=3m27s
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Re: LTC strategy: make health your hobby

Post by InMyDreams »

regularguy455 wrote: Sun Jul 29, 2018 11:09 am Ok maybe the 70s is a stretch these days, but how many people do you know in their 80s or 90s that have rich and fulfilling lives? I’d be willing to bet many do not.
And another interesting to read about populations with higher-than-average longevity, The Blue Zones
https://www.amazon.com/Blue-Zones-Secon ... blue+zones

Easy read, talks a lot about people living well past their 80s and enjoying life - and also admits that there are those who do not. But I also see that in people in any decade. Biological and chronological aging diverge more and more as we age, especially once we're past ~50yo.
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Re: LTC strategy: make health your hobby

Post by brandy »

Great thread! I've already been "reminded" :happy and I'm not half way through. So I'll do better. :!: :wink: One thing that I strongly suggest is that you eliminate as many chemicals as you can from your personal care, laundry, home, and hobby and auto products as you can. The chemicals in common items cause a myriad of health problems, and many can be eliminated or replaced with non-toxic ingredients. (one example in another thread re dealing with bugs is using a "skeeter-bag" rather than bug sprays and repellents.)
Anyway, the MSDS for the chemicals in ingredient lists is easily googled. Look into some to see what they do. Some are carcinogens and/or central nervous system disrupters, some say do not flush, others are on hazardous waste lists--these are in products people use daily! They cause problems in our bodies and environment.
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Re: LTC strategy: make health your hobby

Post by TheDDC »

I approve of this strategy. It's cheap and doesn't require insurance (i.e., lining someone else's pockets). But why start when you are close to retirement and thinking of LTC? I am 36 and started the strategy of eating right / exercising with the help of my wife. The earlier the better.

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Re: LTC strategy: make health your hobby

Post by JMacDonald »

regularguy455 wrote: Sun Jul 29, 2018 11:09 am Ok maybe the 70s is a stretch these days, but how many people do you know in their 80s or 90s that have rich and fulfilling lives? I’d be willing to bet many do not.
Well, here are two people.

https://www.sfchronicle.com/books/artic ... 764802.php

http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/20 ... rever.html
Last edited by JMacDonald on Sun Jul 29, 2018 4:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: LTC strategy: make health your hobby

Post by BogleBike »

3-20Characters wrote: Sun Jul 29, 2018 11:48 am
Blue Zones are regions of the world where people live much longer than average. The term first appeared in the November 2005 National Geographic magazine cover story "The Secrets of a Long Life"[1] by Dan Buettner. Buettner identified five geographic areas where people live statistically longest: Okinawa (Japan); Sardinia (Italy); Nicoya (Costa Rica); Icaria(Greece) and among the Seventh-day Adventists in Loma Linda, California. He offers an explanation, based on empirical data and first hand observations, as to why these populations live healthier and longer lives.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Zone

blue zones diet...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1zzLvGXBIE&t=3m27s
Handy link.

I notice several of the comments in this thread focus on diet and exercise, yet several other habits are just as important according to the summary: strong family relationships, social engagement, and "life purpose." Perhaps this health focus will be more fulfilling than I expected!

:)
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Re: LTC strategy: make health your hobby

Post by Earl Lemongrab »

Hmmm. That sounds like an awful lot of work to me.
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Re: LTC strategy: make health your hobby

Post by JoeRetire »

praxis wrote: Sat Jul 28, 2018 4:50 pmChanging our mind is hard. Changing diet and exercise habits late in life is hard
All change is hard. Sometimes hard is still worthwhile.

That said, choosing to "make health your hobby" doesn't make the need for LTC insurance go away.
I was healthy until last November. Then I found out I had cancer.
One of my neighbors was healthy and very active until a few years ago - then she needed a knee replacement, followed by a hip replacement.
Stuff happens despite our best plans.

Be as healthy as you can. But insure against the risks you can't afford.
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Re: LTC strategy: make health your hobby

Post by amazonchic »

As a pianist, I plan to continue playing and teaching piano as long as I can.
I've seen many of the teachers in my professional group remain mentally sharp into their 80's.
My close friend and mentor just passed away at age 88, teaching until she passed away.

My brain is far more compromised by the hormone changes from pregnancy.

I look forward to playing piano MORE in retirement when I can work less at other things.
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Re: LTC strategy: make health your hobby

Post by Limoncello402 »

Move your body--a lot! It really doesn't matter how. Biking, walking, swimming can be done until a very ripe old age. Get a fitbit and count steps.
Eat well, for health and enjoyment. Achieve a manageable weight in a normal range. No smoking, no drugs, minimal alcohol.
Go to regular doctor's appointments, eye doctor appointments, and dentist cleanings/appointments. Take care of any health issue right away, to the extent you can.
Keep your mind stimulated every day by reading, a hobby, good conversation, outdoor activity, puzzles, etc. Stop watching TV and keep away from a constant stream of negative news/the outrage du jour.
Pray. Cultivate spirituality or religious observance. Be thankful every day for what you have and give back.
Maintain a positive approach to life and don't dwell on regrets or past mistakes. Have children in your life.
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Re: LTC strategy: make health your hobby

Post by afan »

regularguy455 wrote: Sun Jul 29, 2018 11:09 am Ok maybe the 70s is a stretch these days, but how many people do you know in their 80s or 90s that have rich and fulfilling lives? I’d be willing to bet many do not.
Ginsberg seems to find serving as an Associate Justice fulfilling enough that she plans to keep it up at least till she is 90.

I have known plenty of people that age who are happily engaged in life. Some are still working at jobs they like. Others have had to cut back on work because they don't have the stamina for full time employment, but they have rich intellectual lives, travel, appreciate music, see friends. When you get above 95, the smaller number of people I have known were pretty deteriorated. But the 80's? Sure. that is not that old. With luck I hope to be working past that age. We will see.
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Re: LTC strategy: make health your hobby

Post by chessknt »

All this talk about dementia brings up an important point--talk to your surrogate decision maker about what you'd want done if you lose your mental faculties and fill out advanced directives. An in depth advanced directive (ie one that defines independence to you and at what point you would not want life sustaining measures or even elective longevity measures taken) is invaluable. The garbage 'I don't want to be a vegetable' is completely useless.
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