Watch Collection Reasonable or Unreasonable or Irresponsible?

Questions on how we spend our money and our time - consumer goods and services, home and vehicle, leisure and recreational activities
Grt2bOutdoors
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Re: Watch Collection Reasonable or Unreasonable or Irresponsible?

Post by Grt2bOutdoors » Thu Jul 19, 2018 12:08 pm

Nissanzx1 wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 11:59 am
Grt2bOutdoors wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 11:57 am
Collectibles may have value, it may not. I hope you have them fully insured and in a very safe place.

My good friend passed away, his wife claimed her collectibles were worth multiples of what they had paid for it - only to find out they were worth 10 cents on the dollar. That may not be the case with certain watches, but if watch collecting ever goes out of style, you know what you can expect.
For the record, one of my relatives collects watches - personally I think this person is nuts (keep it to myself). :oops:

The local tax collector will not take a watch in lieu of cash.
When you have something that is not easily accepted by others for payment, you know you have something of questionable value.
Unfortunately it would be many thousands of dollars per year to insure them because the replacement value would be somewhere near $250K. I have a bank deposit box for $30/yr and I visit about once a month to pick a couple to wear. Thanks for commenting.
You are taking an outsized risk given your current financial status. While you could pay $5K in insurance premiums, you only lose $5K. While the likelihood of a bank's safe deposit box vault being robbed are low, it can still happen. If it does occur, you will be out ALL of the loss, as you should know first hand that banks do not insure the contents of that particular vault.
"One should invest based on their need, ability and willingness to take risk - Larry Swedroe" Asking Portfolio Questions

Nissanzx1
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Re: Watch Collection Reasonable or Unreasonable or Irresponsible?

Post by Nissanzx1 » Thu Jul 19, 2018 12:36 pm

Pajamas wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 11:56 am
Nissanzx1 wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 11:50 am
She has three collectible watches herself (about $15K worth), but she honestly prefers her $100 Citizen.
I have a Seiko that I paid something like $125 or $150 for that I like as much as any other watch I've seen. When I last changed the battery I noticed that it needs a new gasket, though, so I haven't been using it and need to take care of that.
You are welcome to send it. No charge other than shipping. I have a watch makers bench with one drawer full of gaskets lol

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Pajamas
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Re: Watch Collection Reasonable or Unreasonable or Irresponsible?

Post by Pajamas » Thu Jul 19, 2018 12:40 pm

Nissanzx1 wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 12:36 pm
You are welcome to send it. No charge other than shipping. I have a watch makers bench with one drawer full of gaskets lol
Thanks! I just need to orders some gaskets, I had even figured out what size. That would be a good hobby/side business for you, though.

Nissanzx1
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Re: Watch Collection Reasonable or Unreasonable or Irresponsible?

Post by Nissanzx1 » Thu Jul 19, 2018 12:42 pm

Thanks everyone, wow what a vibrant forum community. I have purchased a couple of Jack Bogles books (reading Enough now) and have been trying to learn about investing.

It's difficult coming to the realization that I am significantly behind many of my peers. I have worked since 14. Most of the time 2 jobs at once. Even today, I do some reselling via eBay for extra hobby money.

So tempting to use debt and "get what you deserve" regarding consumer goods. In the last few years I have realized that that's a lie perpetuated by the financial industry...

Look forward to seeing you on the forum. Cheers!

DesertDiva
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Re: Watch Collection Reasonable or Unreasonable or Irresponsible?

Post by DesertDiva » Thu Jul 19, 2018 12:47 pm

Nissanzx1 wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 12:42 pm
Thanks everyone, wow what a vibrant forum community. I have purchased a couple of Jack Bogles books (reading Enough now) and have been trying to learn about investing.

It's difficult coming to the realization that I am significantly behind many of my peers. I have worked since 14. Most of the time 2 jobs at once. Even today, I do some reselling via eBay for extra hobby money.

So tempting to use debt and "get what you deserve" regarding consumer goods. In the last few years I have realized that that's a lie perpetuated by the financial industry...

Look forward to seeing you on the forum. Cheers!
After your done with Bogle's books, move on to Thomas Stanley's books - The Millionaire Next Door, Stop Acting Rich, etc. - for further reading
Kudos for getting a financial education and taking charge of your finances :happy

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FIREchief
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Re: Watch Collection Reasonable or Unreasonable or Irresponsible?

Post by FIREchief » Thu Jul 19, 2018 12:59 pm

Nissanzx1 wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 7:17 am
I have a wrist Watch collection valued at conservatively $80,000. Ive just turned 40, so I'm getting more serious about retirement investing and personal responsibility, etc. Should I be concerned to the point I should sell some of them?

Looking for opinions on if this is out of balance or workable?
Since you said you're looking for opinions, I'll give you one. Sell about $60K of those watches and plow the money into equities in tax advantaged retirement accounts (you may need to hold some in a taxable account for a few years before you'll be able to fully invest in tax advantaged). It is reasonable to expect that those stocks will appreciate much more than collectible watches over the next 20 - 30 years. 8-)
I am not a lawyer, accountant or financial advisor. Any advice or suggestions that I may provide shall be considered for entertainment purposes only.

mak1277
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Re: Watch Collection Reasonable or Unreasonable or Irresponsible?

Post by mak1277 » Thu Jul 19, 2018 1:03 pm

Am I the only one interested in what watches are in the collection? :)

stimulacra
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Re: Watch Collection Reasonable or Unreasonable or Irresponsible?

Post by stimulacra » Thu Jul 19, 2018 1:05 pm

Your collection as a percentage of your net worth, and as a percentage of your gross income seems a bit out of whack to me (and I consider myself a horologist).

Also in absolute terms, it's a bit of a liability. If you're keeping them in a safe deposit box, that might be one thing. If they're sitting in your bedroom or closet, however small the risk, you are making yourself a target for home robbery.

If it were me, I would reduce the collection to my top 3-5. Maybe have a mix of daily wearers and special occasion watches and sell the rest. You can always re-acquire a watch you sold unless you have something truly special. In my understanding only two brands of watches actually appreciate in value but they don't keep pace with even a conservative life-strategy fund.

deltaneutral83
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Re: Watch Collection Reasonable or Unreasonable or Irresponsible?

Post by deltaneutral83 » Thu Jul 19, 2018 1:15 pm

chevca wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 11:15 am
There are some pretty 'judgey' posts in this one. For all we know, the OP just got married last year and spent their single years building the watch collection. Let's not forget, they have NO debt and two houses (one rental). I don't think the implied decades of irresponsibility posts are called for.

I'd bet we all have an item or collection that other folks wouldn't spend a penny on. Judge not....
The OP is specifically asking others to judge his financial decision making as it pertains to his watch collection, no? This is BH, people post their details, ask for opinions, and we all get more informed (hopefully). One of the major themes of this website is that money is fungible, so we have to know as much about the OP's situation to gauge if we think it's prudent. Is the OP's rental that is paid off is worth $150k or $50k? Well that changes the game. He might be getting below market rent or above market rent at $650, just don't know, have to ask. By BH standards, I would assume OP is light in equities for retirement but he may be making up for it in another area not mentioned. The OP's car is also of relevance. If OP and his spouse drive used $8k cars as opposed to $60k new cars, well then that positively affects OP's cash flow from his income to purchase toys. If one drives a $60k car brand new for 12 months, that equates to one buying a $45k car and a $15k watch (and the watch actually has residual value of some kind in the end, at least significantly more than $0, cars eventually do not).

As it pertains to this scenario, I'd probably beef up retirement accounts and get the Roth cranking without selling any of them. But you could of course sell one if you wanted to ease the cash flow pain, it all depends. I guess it's a situation where a voluntary choice is present. A lot of people live and make financial decisions and then as a result have the choices made for them going forward. I like voluntary choices.

ebrasmus21
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Re: Watch Collection Reasonable or Unreasonable or Irresponsible?

Post by ebrasmus21 » Thu Jul 19, 2018 1:19 pm

mak1277 wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 1:03 pm
Am I the only one interested in what watches are in the collection? :)
Me too!

chevca
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Re: Watch Collection Reasonable or Unreasonable or Irresponsible?

Post by chevca » Thu Jul 19, 2018 1:21 pm

Pretty sure the OP asked for 'opinions' about their current financial situation and how to move forward. Not 'judgement' on how they got there up until now. It comes down to what we all define opinion vs. judgment, I guess.

My comment was on those judging the OP's adult life up until now without knowing all the facts. I don't find baseless judgments to relevant to the thread. But, that's just my opinion. :happy

Quaestner
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Re: Watch Collection Reasonable or Unreasonable or Irresponsible?

Post by Quaestner » Thu Jul 19, 2018 1:54 pm

The watches are a big part of your net worth, and part of that net worth is actually your expertise. In your family, you're the only one who would know how to get maximum value out of the watches. At a minimum, I'd leave your wife special instructions on how to dispose of them and who to trust while doing so (if you haven't yet). If I was in your situation, I might sell a few over time to diversify, and also to see if my assessment on the value (after any selling fees) was accurate. (I wish my dad had told me how to deal with his stamp collection!). Roth's are good - so might a 529 plan - some day - if you have a kid!

Nissanzx1
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Re: Watch Collection Reasonable or Unreasonable or Irresponsible?

Post by Nissanzx1 » Thu Jul 19, 2018 2:30 pm

ebrasmus21 wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 1:19 pm
mak1277 wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 1:03 pm
Am I the only one interested in what watches are in the collection? :)
Me too!
Fair question!

Lots of Rolex probably over 10 now
1 Patek Philippe
Several Omega
Several Jaeger Le Coultre
Several Universal Geneve
Vintage Chronographs, Pocket Watches, etc
Lots of assorted modern and vintage Seiko


I'm kind of a dress watch fan, even though I only really dress up for funerals... hopefully not one of those coming for a long time...

Jags4186
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Re: Watch Collection Reasonable or Unreasonable or Irresponsible?

Post by Jags4186 » Thu Jul 19, 2018 2:46 pm

At minimum unreasonable at worst irresponsible. Most people, unless they are very wealthy or make their living from said stuff, don’t have $80k in a certain category extraneous stuff.

KlangFool
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Re: Watch Collection Reasonable or Unreasonable or Irresponsible?

Post by KlangFool » Thu Jul 19, 2018 2:49 pm

OP,

It is reasonable if your net worth is at least 20 times that. Aka, 20 X 80K = 1.6 million.

KlangFool

mak1277
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Re: Watch Collection Reasonable or Unreasonable or Irresponsible?

Post by mak1277 » Thu Jul 19, 2018 3:06 pm

Nissanzx1 wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 2:30 pm
ebrasmus21 wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 1:19 pm
mak1277 wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 1:03 pm
Am I the only one interested in what watches are in the collection? :)
Me too!
Fair question!

Lots of Rolex probably over 10 now
1 Patek Philippe
Several Omega
Several Jaeger Le Coultre
Several Universal Geneve
Vintage Chronographs, Pocket Watches, etc
Lots of assorted modern and vintage Seiko


I'm kind of a dress watch fan, even though I only really dress up for funerals... hopefully not one of those coming for a long time...
Does your last sentence mean to imply that you don't wear each of your watches on a semi-regular basis? If that's the case, I'd definitely cull the collection a bit. I love watches but my personal rule is that I only buy/keep what I wear regularly.

retiredjg
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Re: Watch Collection Reasonable or Unreasonable or Irresponsible?

Post by retiredjg » Thu Jul 19, 2018 4:22 pm

It's difficult coming to the realization that I am significantly behind many of my peers. I have worked since 14. Most of the time 2 jobs at once.
You are behind where you should be in retirement savings. You are ahead in terms of having property and no mortgages.

All this talk of watches and cars has been interesting, but how can we help you with improving your retirement savings? Do you know where to save? How to invest? People here can help with that.

Nissanzx1
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Re: Watch Collection Reasonable or Unreasonable or Irresponsible?

Post by Nissanzx1 » Thu Jul 19, 2018 4:55 pm

mak1277 wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 3:06 pm
Nissanzx1 wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 2:30 pm
ebrasmus21 wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 1:19 pm
mak1277 wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 1:03 pm
Am I the only one interested in what watches are in the collection? :)
Me too!
Fair question!

Lots of Rolex probably over 10 now
1 Patek Philippe
Several Omega
Several Jaeger Le Coultre
Several Universal Geneve
Vintage Chronographs, Pocket Watches, etc
Lots of assorted modern and vintage Seiko


I'm kind of a dress watch fan, even though I only really dress up for funerals... hopefully not one of those coming for a long time...
Does your last sentence mean to imply that you don't wear each of your watches on a semi-regular basis? If that's the case, I'd definitely cull the collection a bit. I love watches but my personal rule is that I only buy/keep what I wear regularly.

Sorry for any confusion, no I do use all the pieces on a rotating basis.

I did list about three pieces last week that I wasn't ever wearing. Those should bring $1500-$2000 which I will inject in the Roth for 2018.

staythecourse
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Re: Watch Collection Reasonable or Unreasonable or Irresponsible?

Post by staythecourse » Thu Jul 19, 2018 5:00 pm

Apologize if I am repeating, but no I do not think it is reasonable. You are 40 and have just 180k in retirement? To make matters worst you have almost have half of that amount in a watch collection (80k) and you wonder if you should be selling it and adding to your retirement instead? If you were 30 I would say reasonable, but your not. I don't know your occupation, but MOST folks think they are going to work steadily or reasonably employed until 65, but that is not likely anymore. If you only have 20 years left of saving I would make the most of it.

Just my 2 cents since you asked.

Good luck.
"The stock market [fluctuation], therefore, is noise. A giant distraction from the business of investing.” | -Jack Bogle

afan
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Re: Watch Collection Reasonable or Unreasonable or Irresponsible?

Post by afan » Thu Jul 19, 2018 7:39 pm

OK, I'll say it.

You should sell most or all of this collection.

These sorts of items have volatile prices. When the economy does well people feel comfortable and have more money, so they bid up the prices of collectibles. When the economy turns down the prices crash, since no one needs to own expensive watches.

You have far too much of your networth in this collection.

Unless you have been selling as well as buying this whole time I am not convinced you could know the market price of your collection. It depends on the demand for exactly what you have and the condition of each item. Experienced watch dealers might know what they could get for each piece, but there is no assurance you could get the same prices. How easy will it be for potential buyers to find out you have something they might want? Can they drop by and look at the pieces that interest them? Are you an authorized dealer?

If the real value, that is price for which you could sell after any transaction costs, were far lower, say $4,000, then I would agree you could hold on. But $8,000 would be too much in a hobby collection for someone in your financial situation.

My one exception might be to hold off on selling any watch whose market price is currently increasing rapidly. You need to sell to invest in something more reliable and diversified, but you don't need to sell all at once.
Last edited by afan on Fri Jul 20, 2018 4:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
We don't know how to beat the market on a risk-adjusted basis, and we don't know anyone that does know either | --Swedroe | We assume that markets are efficient, that prices are right | --Fama

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GoldStar
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Re: Watch Collection Reasonable or Unreasonable or Irresponsible?

Post by GoldStar » Thu Jul 19, 2018 7:41 pm

What's your networth? (Home Equity, Value, etc.)
Depends upon what Networth you've built up whether or not your watch collection is reasonable or not.

Nissanzx1
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Re: Watch Collection Reasonable or Unreasonable or Irresponsible?

Post by Nissanzx1 » Thu Jul 19, 2018 7:48 pm

GoldStar wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 7:41 pm
What's your networth? (Home Equity, Value, etc.)
Depends upon what Networth you've built up whether or not your watch collection is reasonable or not.
Just a touch under $500K.

frugalecon
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Re: Watch Collection Reasonable or Unreasonable or Irresponsible?

Post by frugalecon » Thu Jul 19, 2018 7:54 pm

KlangFool wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 2:49 pm
OP,

It is reasonable if your net worth is at least 20 times that. Aka, 20 X 80K = 1.6 million.

KlangFool
I think I agree with KlangFool. Personally, I would not want to have such a large fraction of my wealth tied up in something that generated no return. But I have made do with cheap Timex watches for years. The aesthetics and social signaling of high end watches are just not important to me. On the other hand, a female friend of mine did once say she loved falling asleep with the sound of a man’s Rolex ticking in her ear, so perhaps there are nonpecuniary benefits. It would be interesting to know why OP posted this question, though.

KlangFool
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Re: Watch Collection Reasonable or Unreasonable or Irresponsible?

Post by KlangFool » Thu Jul 19, 2018 8:22 pm

frugalecon wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 7:54 pm
KlangFool wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 2:49 pm
OP,

It is reasonable if your net worth is at least 20 times that. Aka, 20 X 80K = 1.6 million.

KlangFool
I think I agree with KlangFool. Personally, I would not want to have such a large fraction of my wealth tied up in something that generated no return. But I have made do with cheap Timex watches for years. The aesthetics and social signaling of high end watches are just not important to me. On the other hand, a female friend of mine did once say she loved falling asleep with the sound of a man’s Rolex ticking in her ear, so perhaps there are nonpecuniary benefits. It would be interesting to know why OP posted this question, though.
frugalecon,

https://www.scmp.com/magazines/style/wa ... very-china

<< A colloquialism illuminates how important they are to signalling success among Chinese elites.

The Chinese phrase literally translates as “the poor play with luxury cars while the rich play with luxury watches”. >>

KlangFool

gmc4h232
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Re: Watch Collection Reasonable or Unreasonable or Irresponsible?

Post by gmc4h232 » Thu Jul 19, 2018 8:29 pm

mak1277 wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 1:03 pm
Am I the only one interested in what watches are in the collection? :)
+1 lets have the list! I’ll break the ice with my “collection”:

Oris 7720
Seiko 7N43-0AZ0

JBTX
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Re: Watch Collection Reasonable or Unreasonable or Irresponsible?

Post by JBTX » Thu Jul 19, 2018 8:33 pm

The question of reasonable is a relative question. I would say approx 25% of your net worth in watches is not optimal.

You would probably know better whether holding them is a better investment than mutual funds.

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FIREchief
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Re: Watch Collection Reasonable or Unreasonable or Irresponsible?

Post by FIREchief » Thu Jul 19, 2018 8:38 pm

gmc4h232 wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 8:29 pm
mak1277 wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 1:03 pm
Am I the only one interested in what watches are in the collection? :)
+1 lets have the list! I’ll break the ice with my “collection”:

Oris 7720
Seiko 7N43-0AZ0
Here's my "collection":
Timex Expedition w/leather band (~$25 on sale several years ago - needs a new $2 battery)
Timex Expedition w/leather-fabric band (free with Kohl's bucks)

I'm guessing nobody is going to suggest that I have too much of my net worth tied up in this. 8-)
I am not a lawyer, accountant or financial advisor. Any advice or suggestions that I may provide shall be considered for entertainment purposes only.

Nissanzx1
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Re: Watch Collection Reasonable or Unreasonable or Irresponsible?

Post by Nissanzx1 » Thu Jul 19, 2018 8:51 pm

retiredjg wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 4:22 pm
It's difficult coming to the realization that I am significantly behind many of my peers. I have worked since 14. Most of the time 2 jobs at once.
You are behind where you should be in retirement savings. You are ahead in terms of having property and no mortgages.

All this talk of watches and cars has been interesting, but how can we help you with improving your retirement savings? Do you know where to save? How to invest? People here can help with that.
Thank you. Yes I have a 401K at work that gets 10% and matches 4.5%. Then, I will max out my Roth. Right now I own some Vanguard Index ETF in the Roth but $1400 is liquid in the account. I'm open to suggestions. I'm just finding Jack Bogle in the last couple of weeks...

The 401K is a mix of about 12 different mutual funds that seems to be performing reasonably well. Some lower expense funds, and some a little higher expense.

I also have a fidelity account invested in a Fidelity Index fund that is from a previous employer. I was able to roll it to an IRA myself and fund it with help from a work friend that is a fan of index funds.

Barefoot
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Re: Watch Collection Reasonable or Unreasonable or Irresponsible?

Post by Barefoot » Thu Jul 19, 2018 8:51 pm

I haven't worn my Timex since I retired at the end of May...

Nissanzx1
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Re: Watch Collection Reasonable or Unreasonable or Irresponsible?

Post by Nissanzx1 » Thu Jul 19, 2018 8:59 pm

frugalecon wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 7:54 pm
KlangFool wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 2:49 pm
OP,

It is reasonable if your net worth is at least 20 times that. Aka, 20 X 80K = 1.6 million.

KlangFool
I think I agree with KlangFool. Personally, I would not want to have such a large fraction of my wealth tied up in something that generated no return. But I have made do with cheap Timex watches for years. The aesthetics and social signaling of high end watches are just not important to me. On the other hand, a female friend of mine did once say she loved falling asleep with the sound of a man’s Rolex ticking in her ear, so perhaps there are nonpecuniary benefits. It would be interesting to know why OP posted this question, though.
Mostly posted this because this year I turned 40. My Mother in Law passed and Father in Law is ill. I'm kinda growing up, I guess you can say. I'm thinking more about what's important to myself and my wife.

I grew up with folks who both worked corporate gigs and we luckily didn't want for anything. If you needed it, it appeared (within reason). I acted a fool in my 20's and 30's with fancy cars (car payments) and at one time had 11 credit cards with balances. Stupidest thing I bought was a hot tub on payments :(

So just in the last few years, I've eliminated debts, found my lovely wife, etc...

retiredjg
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Re: Watch Collection Reasonable or Unreasonable or Irresponsible?

Post by retiredjg » Fri Jul 20, 2018 5:22 am

Nissanzx1 wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 8:51 pm
I'm open to suggestions. I'm just finding Jack Bogle in the last couple of weeks...I'm kinda growing up, I guess you can say. I'm thinking more about what's important to myself and my wife.
Sounds like you are ready to get serious and have paved the way by eliminating debt and finding a good partner. At this point, your watch collection and your car collection are not particularly important. What you should do with them will become evident to you in time.

What is important is to increase your savings - maybe start with the same 10% and 2 Roth IRAs.

Start here.... https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Getting_started Follow a lot of the links and be sure to watch the videos.

When you are ready, post your information in the format shown in the link at the bottom of this message. People here will help you get your portfolio in shape (12 funds in a 401k is probably not your best choice) and get you on your way.

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GoldStar
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Re: Watch Collection Reasonable or Unreasonable or Irresponsible?

Post by GoldStar » Fri Jul 20, 2018 7:08 am

Nissanzx1 wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 7:48 pm
GoldStar wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 7:41 pm
What's your networth? (Home Equity, Value, etc.)
Depends upon what Networth you've built up whether or not your watch collection is reasonable or not.
Just a touch under $500K.
Looks like others have already pointed this out (by calculating what they thing your NetWorth should be to have such a collection) - my feeling is the same - having a watch collection that is equal to 16% of the you total NetWorth certainly seems excessive to me. My watch collection is 1/4 the value of yours and my NetWorth is many multiples higher so perhaps I'm biased :)
Personally I would stop collecting and perhaps only keep your 2 favorites and sell the rest. If you don't plan on having a family it might not matter but if you want to build a family it seems irresponsible to me to spend such a high percentage of your income/networth on such a luxury (just my opinion).

goodlifer
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Re: Watch Collection Reasonable or Unreasonable or Irresponsible?

Post by goodlifer » Fri Jul 20, 2018 9:38 am

My husband and I both collect things. Sometimes we each spend less than $100 a year, sometimes it is in the tens of thousands. It just depends. I don't see your collection as unreasonable. That is a separate issue from your retirement savings. Does your 10% 401k contribution equal out to $18,500? If not, start raising it. If you do it one percent at a time, you probably won't even notice the extra money missing. Determine how much you think you will actually need for retirement, and then how to get it. You have a great start with being mortgage free. We had to basically start from scratch when my husband was in his 40's due to some poor choices on his part. Until very recently, we were earning about the same as you and we now have about $500,000 in retirement and still plugging away at it. You can catch up. Just don't invest in risky things in an effort to make a big score.

As for the watches, set some aside that you don't love and put them up for sale when you notice price spikes. You don't need to rush and sell things when you are not getting top dollar. Set a little money aside each month for repairs and possible acquisitions so you don't blow your monthly salary on something you "just gotta have".

pejp
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Re: Watch Collection Reasonable or Unreasonable or Irresponsible?

Post by pejp » Fri Jul 20, 2018 1:16 pm

Fellow watch collector checking in here. It's a very hard question....I've spent LOTS of money on watches. I bought and sold a lot over the years, almost entirely down to my love of them, but also a couple of good opportunities that came my way as a short term trade. I've made money on some, lost money on others. My advice is to never buy watches or consider them as an investment unless you really really know what you're doing. I was in a similar situation to you, albeit at a younger age. When I was 31 (I'm now 36), I had around $70k of watches, mainly vintage Rolex with a few other brands (FP Journe, AP, Omega, IWC)....around 2015 I decided to keep a 'core' collection of just 3 or 4 watches, either the pieces I truly loved or the rare pieces that wold be foolish to let go, and I slowly sold the rest and put the money into my savings. When I was buying them, I always thought of them as just temporary and an extension of my savings account (albeit a more volatile part!) and I knew that I'd sell most of them one day, so it wasn't too hard, but there are still some I regret selling (I really miss my Royal Oak Chrono!).

One thing that I would stress, is that any return you see on them will be down to luck, so keep that in mind. I'm currently considering selling my Pepsi 1675 from the late 70's, as the GMT market has gone absolute insane over the past year. I paid maybe 6k for this piece 7 years ago, and similar examples are now selling for 15-20k. Obviously that's just the way the market has gone, not down to any particular foresight on my part. I love the watch, but everyone has their price!

I'd love to know the details of the collection, as I'd be happy to give a second opinion on the current value of them, and more important, the liquidity. At the moment, good examples of vintage Rolex sports models are very easy to sell, but outside of that, nothing is a sure thing. An 80k collection can very easily become a 50k collection if you have to sell quickly due to circumstance.

One last point, take advice here with a pinch of salt, as a lot of people on here will either a) know nothing about the vintage watch market or b) just not 'get' watches in the first place.
Last edited by pejp on Fri Jul 20, 2018 1:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

pejp
Posts: 88
Joined: Thu Jan 04, 2018 4:12 pm

Re: Watch Collection Reasonable or Unreasonable or Irresponsible?

Post by pejp » Fri Jul 20, 2018 1:26 pm

FlyAF wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 10:48 am
KlangFool wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 10:30 am
FlyAF wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 10:21 am
Personally I'd feel a little weird and "poser'ish" by wearing a 5k+ dollar status symbol on my wrist when my income was less than six figures. 40 and just starting a Roth is not somewhere I'd want to be, but I'm not going to tell you how to spend your money.
FlyAF,

Sometimes, folks wear the imitation wristwatch on their wrist while keeping the actual 10K to 20K wristwatch in their safes. So, they have both. It is not safe to wear the actual 10K to 20K wristwatch in some part of the world.

KlangFool
Well then, I understand high priced watches even less now. People wear fakes around while keeping the actual watch in a safe? What if you strike up a convo with a fellow at the bar and he spots your fake? Wouldn't that be mortifying? Lets face it, the only reason people buy and wear expensive watches is in the hopes that someone DOES notice.
I've been obsessed with watches since I was 10 years old. I've collected them for a long time, I've been interviewed by a major watch manufacutrer for their blog, I was on a CNN feature about watch collectors, I was recently quoted in the NY Times, and I've been a member and continue to be a member of several watch collecting groups. Not to boast, just saying that I know what I'm talking about and have a lot of experience in this field.....I've literally never heard of anyone wearing a fake whilst keeping the 'real' one in a safe. I've never even heard anyone claim that before. Perhaps KlangFool knows someone who has done that, but the idea that this is widespread practice is not correct.

Also, your idea of them being purely for a status symbol or only wearing them in the hope that someone will notice is very judgmental. There is no doubt that there are some people who are like that, and for the most part these are people who couldn't tell you the first thing about watches or horology, in the same way that not every Ferrari owner is a true car enthusiast, but the vast majority of collectors that I know have a true passion for the craftsmanship and engineering that goes into a mechanical watch. I'm currently wearing a watch that was made 5 years before I was born, and runs purely on a mechanical movement. If looked after, it will outlive me. If you don't understand the appeal, that's fine, but I suggest you leave out the judgement calls on the motivation for why someone might want to wear an 'expensive' watch.

Nissanzx1
Posts: 91
Joined: Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:13 pm

Re: Watch Collection Reasonable or Unreasonable or Irresponsible?

Post by Nissanzx1 » Fri Jul 20, 2018 1:54 pm

pejp wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 1:16 pm
Fellow watch collector checking in here. It's a very hard question....I've spent LOTS of money on watches. I bought and sold a lot over the years, almost entirely down to my love of them, but also a couple of good opportunities that came my way as a short term trade. I've made money on some, lost money on others. My advice is to never buy watches or consider them as an investment unless you really really know what you're doing. I was in a similar situation to you, albeit at a younger age. When I was 31 (I'm now 36), I had around $70k of watches, mainly vintage Rolex with a few other brands (FP Journe, AP, Omega, IWC)....around 2015 I decided to keep a 'core' collection of just 3 or 4 watches, either the pieces I truly loved or the rare pieces that wold be foolish to let go, and I slowly sold the rest and put the money into my savings. When I was buying them, I always thought of them as just temporary and an extension of my savings account (albeit a more volatile part!) and I knew that I'd sell most of them one day, so it wasn't too hard, but there are still some I regret selling (I really miss my Royal Oak Chrono!).

One thing that I would stress, is that any return you see on them will be down to luck, so keep that in mind. I'm currently considering selling my Pepsi 1675 from the late 70's, as the GMT market has gone absolute insane over the past year. I paid maybe 6k for this piece 7 years ago, and similar examples are now selling for 15-20k. Obviously that's just the way the market has gone, not down to any particular foresight on my part. I love the watch, but everyone has their price!

I'd love to know the details of the collection, as I'd be happy to give a second opinion on the current value of them, and more important, the liquidity. At the moment, good examples of vintage Rolex sports models are very easy to sell, but outside of that, nothing is a sure thing. An 80k collection can very easily become a 50k collection if you have to sell quickly due to circumstance.

One last point, take advice here with a pinch of salt, as a lot of people on here will either a) know nothing about the vintage watch market or b) just not 'get' watches in the first place.
Very good stuff! Thanks for commenting!

Some of my current collection from memory:
16700
1501 14K
1601
16570
1803
16233
16234
15200
16610
16613
Steel Bubbleback

Triple Date Universal with Moonphase in Steel
Jaeger Reserve de Marche
Jaeger 18K Rose Gold Triple Calendar Moonphase
Patek Ellipse 14K
Jaeger 70's 14K Time Only
Universal Polerouter Steel
Omega Moon Manual Wind
Omega Seamaster Chrono Auto Steel
Omega Schumacher Speedmaster Red
14K Longines Manual Wind
Loads of modern and vintage Seiko
Sinn 556
14K WG Vacheron Manual Wind

Wife:
18K Cartier Tank Manual Wind
Ladies President
Steel OP

Probably lots that I'm forgetting at the moment.....

KlangFool
Posts: 9512
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2008 12:35 pm

Re: Watch Collection Reasonable or Unreasonable or Irresponsible?

Post by KlangFool » Fri Jul 20, 2018 2:07 pm

pejp wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 1:26 pm


I've literally never heard of anyone wearing a fake whilst keeping the 'real' one in a safe. I've never even heard anyone claim that before. Perhaps KlangFool knows someone who has done that, but the idea that this is widespread practice is not correct.

Also, your idea of them being purely for a status symbol or only wearing them in the hope that someone will notice is very judgmental. There is no doubt that there are some people who are like that, and for the most part these are people who couldn't tell you the first thing about watches or horology, in the same way that not every Ferrari owner is a true car enthusiast, but the vast majority of collectors that I know have a true passion for the craftsmanship and engineering that goes into a mechanical watch. I'm currently wearing a watch that was made 5 years before I was born, and runs purely on a mechanical movement. If looked after, it will outlive me. If you don't understand the appeal, that's fine, but I suggest you leave out the judgement calls on the motivation for why someone might want to wear an 'expensive' watch.
pejp,

1) Are you Asian?

2) Are you Chinese?

My observations are specific to Asians and Chinese.

KlangFool

FlyAF
Posts: 126
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Re: Watch Collection Reasonable or Unreasonable or Irresponsible?

Post by FlyAF » Fri Jul 20, 2018 2:22 pm

pejp wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 1:26 pm
FlyAF wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 10:48 am
KlangFool wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 10:30 am
FlyAF wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 10:21 am
Personally I'd feel a little weird and "poser'ish" by wearing a 5k+ dollar status symbol on my wrist when my income was less than six figures. 40 and just starting a Roth is not somewhere I'd want to be, but I'm not going to tell you how to spend your money.
FlyAF,

Sometimes, folks wear the imitation wristwatch on their wrist while keeping the actual 10K to 20K wristwatch in their safes. So, they have both. It is not safe to wear the actual 10K to 20K wristwatch in some part of the world.

KlangFool
Well then, I understand high priced watches even less now. People wear fakes around while keeping the actual watch in a safe? What if you strike up a convo with a fellow at the bar and he spots your fake? Wouldn't that be mortifying? Lets face it, the only reason people buy and wear expensive watches is in the hopes that someone DOES notice.
I've been obsessed with watches since I was 10 years old. I've collected them for a long time, I've been interviewed by a major watch manufacutrer for their blog, I was on a CNN feature about watch collectors, I was recently quoted in the NY Times, and I've been a member and continue to be a member of several watch collecting groups. Not to boast, just saying that I know what I'm talking about and have a lot of experience in this field.....I've literally never heard of anyone wearing a fake whilst keeping the 'real' one in a safe. I've never even heard anyone claim that before. Perhaps KlangFool knows someone who has done that, but the idea that this is widespread practice is not correct.

Also, your idea of them being purely for a status symbol or only wearing them in the hope that someone will notice is very judgmental. There is no doubt that there are some people who are like that, and for the most part these are people who couldn't tell you the first thing about watches or horology, in the same way that not every Ferrari owner is a true car enthusiast, but the vast majority of collectors that I know have a true passion for the craftsmanship and engineering that goes into a mechanical watch. I'm currently wearing a watch that was made 5 years before I was born, and runs purely on a mechanical movement. If looked after, it will outlive me. If you don't understand the appeal, that's fine, but I suggest you leave out the judgement calls on the motivation for why someone might want to wear an 'expensive' watch.
No judgments here. I have more wrapped up in a single collector car that sits in my garage that I might drive once a week and serves zero utilitarian purpose. I do however realize that I do drive it to be noticed even though I also enjoy it. It's not coincidence that we take it when we go out for dinner where I know it will be valet'ed front and center. I'm an engineer working in manufacturing so I can very much so appreciate the mechanics of fine watches. We all have our things, but I find it insincere to say that you don't want people to notice or to strike up a conversation.

pejp
Posts: 88
Joined: Thu Jan 04, 2018 4:12 pm

Re: Watch Collection Reasonable or Unreasonable or Irresponsible?

Post by pejp » Fri Jul 20, 2018 2:27 pm

FlyAF wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 2:22 pm
pejp wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 1:26 pm
FlyAF wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 10:48 am
KlangFool wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 10:30 am
FlyAF wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 10:21 am
Personally I'd feel a little weird and "poser'ish" by wearing a 5k+ dollar status symbol on my wrist when my income was less than six figures. 40 and just starting a Roth is not somewhere I'd want to be, but I'm not going to tell you how to spend your money.
FlyAF,

Sometimes, folks wear the imitation wristwatch on their wrist while keeping the actual 10K to 20K wristwatch in their safes. So, they have both. It is not safe to wear the actual 10K to 20K wristwatch in some part of the world.

KlangFool
Well then, I understand high priced watches even less now. People wear fakes around while keeping the actual watch in a safe? What if you strike up a convo with a fellow at the bar and he spots your fake? Wouldn't that be mortifying? Lets face it, the only reason people buy and wear expensive watches is in the hopes that someone DOES notice.
I've been obsessed with watches since I was 10 years old. I've collected them for a long time, I've been interviewed by a major watch manufacutrer for their blog, I was on a CNN feature about watch collectors, I was recently quoted in the NY Times, and I've been a member and continue to be a member of several watch collecting groups. Not to boast, just saying that I know what I'm talking about and have a lot of experience in this field.....I've literally never heard of anyone wearing a fake whilst keeping the 'real' one in a safe. I've never even heard anyone claim that before. Perhaps KlangFool knows someone who has done that, but the idea that this is widespread practice is not correct.

Also, your idea of them being purely for a status symbol or only wearing them in the hope that someone will notice is very judgmental. There is no doubt that there are some people who are like that, and for the most part these are people who couldn't tell you the first thing about watches or horology, in the same way that not every Ferrari owner is a true car enthusiast, but the vast majority of collectors that I know have a true passion for the craftsmanship and engineering that goes into a mechanical watch. I'm currently wearing a watch that was made 5 years before I was born, and runs purely on a mechanical movement. If looked after, it will outlive me. If you don't understand the appeal, that's fine, but I suggest you leave out the judgement calls on the motivation for why someone might want to wear an 'expensive' watch.
No judgments here. I have more wrapped up in a single collector car that sits in my garage that I might drive once a week and serves zero utilitarian purpose. I do however realize that I do drive it to be noticed even though I also enjoy it. It's not coincidence that we take it when we go out for dinner where I know it will be valet'ed front and center. I'm an engineer working in manufacturing so I can very much so appreciate the mechanics of fine watches. We all have our things, but I find it insincere to say that you don't want people to notice or to strike up a conversation.
I discuss watches with other collectors. I actually love that I can go out wearing an FP Journe and it won't get a second glance, whereas wearing a bog standard Rolex Submariner will often elicit a 'wow, a Rolex!'. Most of the watches I collect wouldn't look at all significant to the average person. If I were wearing a diamond studded Hublot and making that claim, then it would be insincere, but I don't wear those kind of watches.

retiredjg
Posts: 33245
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Re: Watch Collection Reasonable or Unreasonable or Irresponsible?

Post by retiredjg » Fri Jul 20, 2018 4:08 pm

Nissanzx1 wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 1:54 pm
Some of my current collection from memory:
16700......14K WG Vacheron Manual Wind
Let me just point something out here. If you decide to post your financial information, anyone who knows your watches and your cars will know your exact financial information, even more than the general information you have posted already. That is likely not to be a good idea. Even the general information is probably not that good to have posted already....now that you have identified yourself pretty specifically.

I'd delete this information above and maybe some of the financial stuff earlier.

Also, when it is time to post everything, if you choose to do so, I'd join under a new username (get one of the admin people's approval).


To edit out previously posted information, use the pencil thingy in the upper right of your posts.

investingdad
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Re: Watch Collection Reasonable or Unreasonable or Irresponsible?

Post by investingdad » Fri Jul 20, 2018 4:37 pm

I'll wrap up my comments here with a throwback to the thread where I discussed spending 5k on a pinball machine for myself. I got a lot of varied replies. I have shared on here my age (40s) and net (somewhere between 2 and 3 million).

I have to wonder what the replies would have been if I had said I had 80k in pinball machines already...:)

Rick Rock
Posts: 70
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Re: Watch Collection Reasonable or Unreasonable or Irresponsible?

Post by Rick Rock » Fri Jul 20, 2018 5:27 pm

Nissanzx1 wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 11:41 am
livesoft wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 11:26 am
OK, let's guess about the OP's car now.
There are 6 vehicles with plates:

03 Honda
03 Nissan
02 Honda Motorcycle
1977 Motorhome
92 Mercedes
07 Mercedes

I am doing most of the maintenance myself to save there...
Keep the watch collection.

Sell your car collection! :)

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cheese_breath
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Re: Watch Collection Reasonable or Unreasonable or Irresponsible?

Post by cheese_breath » Fri Jul 20, 2018 6:48 pm

investingdad wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 4:37 pm
I'll wrap up my comments here with a throwback to the thread where I discussed spending 5k on a pinball machine for myself. I got a lot of varied replies. I have shared on here my age (40s) and net (somewhere between 2 and 3 million).

I have to wonder what the replies would have been if I had said I had 80k in pinball machines already...:)
I think they would have been different given you have between 2-3 million. OP doesn't and needs to begin funding his retirement.
The surest way to know the future is when it becomes the past.

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Re: Watch Collection Reasonable or Unreasonable or Irresponsible?

Post by LadyGeek » Fri Jul 20, 2018 6:57 pm

This thread is now in the Personal Consumer Issues forum (how you spend your money and your time).
Wiki To some, the glass is half full. To others, the glass is half empty. To an engineer, it's twice the size it needs to be.

penumbra
Posts: 260
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Re: Watch Collection Reasonable or Unreasonable or Irresponsible?

Post by penumbra » Fri Jul 20, 2018 7:27 pm

Well, from my perspctive, you have an issue with “stuff”, judging from your watches and cars. Have you accumulated multiples of other things, too? I can just tell you my perspective. I’m much older, and have accumulated well into 8 figures. Can’t imagine being burdened with so many watches. I’ve often thought I’d take 20 cents on the dollar for everything I own, except my house, and be thrilled to be rid of it all. Maybe 10 cents. It just seems like so much junk. I spend my money on experiences.. when I was your age, there were a few bright shiny things that appealed to me, but, as my father in law advised me, “just lie down til it goes away.”
Turned out that was good advice, I think. The beauty of life is that you get to make your own choices, so you may come to different conclusions now. I feel you’re way behind on retirement savings, though. Let us know what you decide.😉

AlwaysWannaLearn
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Re: Watch Collection Reasonable or Unreasonable or Irresponsible?

Post by AlwaysWannaLearn » Fri Jul 20, 2018 7:32 pm

Nissanzx1 wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 7:17 am
I have a wrist Watch collection valued at conservatively $80,000. Ive just turned 40, so I'm getting more serious about retirement investing and personal responsibility, etc. Should I be concerned to the point I should sell some of them? I've built them up over years and years and really enjoy them.
I'm 40, wife is 36- no children yet.
Combined household gross about $125K.
No debts whatsoever, no mortgages. We own our primary and get $650/mo rent from our rental.
Cash Savings $52,000, some is savings for another rental.
Retirement accounts total $184,000.
This is my first year of Roth IRA :(
Looking for opinions on if this is out of balance or workable?
Just found this forum, love it!
Nissanzx1 wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 12:42 pm
Thanks everyone, wow what a vibrant forum community. I have purchased a couple of Jack Bogles books (reading Enough now) and have been trying to learn about investing. It's difficult coming to the realization that I am significantly behind many of my peers. I have worked since 14. Most of the time 2 jobs at once. Even today, I do some reselling via eBay for extra hobby money.So tempting to use debt and "get what you deserve" regarding consumer goods. In the last few years I have realized that that's a lie perpetuated by the financial industry...
Nissanzx1 wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 11:53 am
Thanks for commenting, my Grandfather was also a jeweler and watchmaker. I have learned how to do most simple Watch repairs and have acquired some tools. This has given me such great joy over the last year or two. Just enjoy the heck out of working on the Watches...
Nissanzx1 wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 11:57 am
chevca wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 11:15 am
There are some pretty 'judgey' posts in this one. For all we know, the OP just got married last year and spent their single years building the watch collection. Let's not forget, they have NO debt and two houses (one rental). I don't think the implied decades of irresponsibility posts are called for.

I'd bet we all have an item or collection that other folks wouldn't spend a penny on. Judge not....
We have been married 3 years and in the first 2.5 years eliminated $60,000 in student loans that she had from law school. We are really trying to work together as a team. Thanks for commenting.
Nissanzx1 wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 8:59 pm
Mostly posted this because this year I turned 40. My Mother in Law passed and Father in Law is ill. I'm kinda growing up, I guess you can say. I'm thinking more about what's important to myself and my wife.

I grew up with folks who both worked corporate gigs and we luckily didn't want for anything. If you needed it, it appeared (within reason). I acted a fool in my 20's and 30's with fancy cars (car payments) and at one time had 11 credit cards with balances. Stupidest thing I bought was a hot tub on payments :( So just in the last few years, I've eliminated debts, found my lovely wife, etc...
OP, the above posts of yours tell a wonderful story of progression, learning, maturation - just like all of us do, and hopefully continue to do. And I appreciate your candor and authenticity. You do your wife, family and your jeweler-watchmaker grandfather proud. Hey, we all have to start somewhere in that process of (to use your words) "growing up"; hopefully we all get wiser/better over time. Heck, I'm in my 50s and still workin' on it btw, hahaha - but I digress. And hey listen: Everyone on this forum, whether they're willing to admit it or not, knows they did some stupid things in their 20s and 30s - some perhaps more costly (and joyous :)) than others' but no matter. No one's keeping score. For the record, I know I did! ; )

Moreover, everyone on this forum (again, whether they're willing to admit it or not - I completely concur with chevca's post) has some category of "thing" they spend on that brings them tremendous joy and pleasure, and that plenty of others would say they're wasting money on. If we disregard all "joy value", well yes of course it's easy to deliver the standard line to stop doing it, sell what assets exist from that dalliance, and invest the proceeds and any other funds one would otherwise sink into that "thing" going forward. As someone else said, "everyone has their thing". BUT, Who wants a "joyless" life, no matter the FI? The issue really is "Balance" and as you said in your last quoted posted above, "Priorities" as to what's important to you, and now your lovely wife and your future family. (Duly noted that you did say you have no children "yet".)

So back to your question: You asked, "Should I be concerned to the point I should sell some of them?" Ultimately, only you can make that decision, OP. Here's my view, for what it's worth given how much you're paying for my and everyone else's advice on this forum, hahaha: Don't sell immediately. Candidly, I think you're jumping the gun but that assumes that you're willing to take the next logical step in your above progression. My suggention: Instead of throwing it all out the window right this minute, as some have suggested because they don't "get" the beauty, workmanship and value that goes into these valued timepieces:

1. For net worth purposes, don't include your watch collection at all as an "investment" or an "asset". IOW, take the most conservative position: Think of it as money spent on a wonderful hobby that brings you great joy, pleasure and happiness, and honors your grandfather's legacy. It's your "thing". I get that and respect it. For purposes of assessing and getting your financial/retirement house in order, though, assign a zero value to it from a net worth perspective for now. You can decide later (per #2 below) based on the advice you get whether it might be wise to sell some of the pieces in order to access what you already know is a WAY GREATER than zero value, in order to accelerate your financial situation. But that's later and up to you. Hey, there are LOTS of people who have figured out how to "monetize" something they did as a hobby and that they never viewed as an "investment", "asset" or "income stream". You're just taking the reverse commute. ; )

2. Follow the forum guidance on posting your current investment situation and financial goals, and ask for guidance on whether or not you're on track to meet your and your wife's goals. You will be floored at how smart and generous the folks here are in helping you and your family get where you want and need to go in order to secure your financial security. Based on the info in your OP, as you've acknowledged, I suspect you're likely a bit behind in getting your retirement accounts to where they should be. However, much depends on your future plans (family, careers, COL, etc.), and you've not shared those.

3. Anyway, once you've gotten the feedback, if you decide you DO need to sell some or all of your watch collection to reach your family's financial goals, others here with far more expertise in watch-collecting have identified themselves in this thread. PM them. They can help you get max dollar for anything you choose to sell.

OP, I commend you and your wife. You are off to a great start having paid off ALL debts (how many of your peers can say THAT?), and having not 1 but 2 RE properties free and clear with one of them income-producing, and more to the point: I commend you both on focusing on your future, and how to reach your envisioned future. :sharebeer Bottom line: I hope something I've said here has been helpful to you, OP. I wish you both nothing but the best.

P.S. I'm no expert in watches, but I know a *bit* for reasons I won't bore you with. I perused the listed items you recalled off the top of your head. Bottom line: Dang, OP. That's one heck of a collection....! :o Oh and I hope you and your lovely wife did something special - that you can afford within your financial goals, of course - for your 40th! Happy birthday!!

ddurrett896
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Joined: Wed Nov 05, 2014 3:23 pm

Re: Watch Collection Reasonable or Unreasonable or Irresponsible?

Post by ddurrett896 » Fri Jul 20, 2018 8:16 pm

“Big hat, no cattle”

Nissanzx1
Posts: 91
Joined: Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:13 pm

Re: Watch Collection Reasonable or Unreasonable or Irresponsible?

Post by Nissanzx1 » Fri Jul 20, 2018 11:52 pm

AlwaysWannaLearn wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 7:32 pm
Nissanzx1 wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 7:17 am
I have a wrist Watch collection valued at conservatively $80,000. Ive just turned 40, so I'm getting more serious about retirement investing and personal responsibility, etc. Should I be concerned to the point I should sell some of them? I've built them up over years and years and really enjoy them.
I'm 40, wife is 36- no children yet.
Combined household gross about $125K.
No debts whatsoever, no mortgages. We own our primary and get $650/mo rent from our rental.
Cash Savings $52,000, some is savings for another rental.
Retirement accounts total $184,000.
This is my first year of Roth IRA :(
Looking for opinions on if this is out of balance or workable?
Just found this forum, love it!
Nissanzx1 wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 12:42 pm
Thanks everyone, wow what a vibrant forum community. I have purchased a couple of Jack Bogles books (reading Enough now) and have been trying to learn about investing. It's difficult coming to the realization that I am significantly behind many of my peers. I have worked since 14. Most of the time 2 jobs at once. Even today, I do some reselling via eBay for extra hobby money.So tempting to use debt and "get what you deserve" regarding consumer goods. In the last few years I have realized that that's a lie perpetuated by the financial industry...
Nissanzx1 wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 11:53 am
Thanks for commenting, my Grandfather was also a jeweler and watchmaker. I have learned how to do most simple Watch repairs and have acquired some tools. This has given me such great joy over the last year or two. Just enjoy the heck out of working on the Watches...
Nissanzx1 wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 11:57 am
chevca wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 11:15 am
There are some pretty 'judgey' posts in this one. For all we know, the OP just got married last year and spent their single years building the watch collection. Let's not forget, they have NO debt and two houses (one rental). I don't think the implied decades of irresponsibility posts are called for.

I'd bet we all have an item or collection that other folks wouldn't spend a penny on. Judge not....
We have been married 3 years and in the first 2.5 years eliminated $60,000 in student loans that she had from law school. We are really trying to work together as a team. Thanks for commenting.
Nissanzx1 wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 8:59 pm
Mostly posted this because this year I turned 40. My Mother in Law passed and Father in Law is ill. I'm kinda growing up, I guess you can say. I'm thinking more about what's important to myself and my wife.

I grew up with folks who both worked corporate gigs and we luckily didn't want for anything. If you needed it, it appeared (within reason). I acted a fool in my 20's and 30's with fancy cars (car payments) and at one time had 11 credit cards with balances. Stupidest thing I bought was a hot tub on payments :( So just in the last few years, I've eliminated debts, found my lovely wife, etc...
OP, the above posts of yours tell a wonderful story of progression, learning, maturation - just like all of us do, and hopefully continue to do. And I appreciate your candor and authenticity. You do your wife, family and your jeweler-watchmaker grandfather proud. Hey, we all have to start somewhere in that process of (to use your words) "growing up"; hopefully we all get wiser/better over time. Heck, I'm in my 50s and still workin' on it btw, hahaha - but I digress. And hey listen: Everyone on this forum, whether they're willing to admit it or not, knows they did some stupid things in their 20s and 30s - some perhaps more costly (and joyous :)) than others' but no matter. No one's keeping score. For the record, I know I did! ; )

Moreover, everyone on this forum (again, whether they're willing to admit it or not - I completely concur with chevca's post) has some category of "thing" they spend on that brings them tremendous joy and pleasure, and that plenty of others would say they're wasting money on. If we disregard all "joy value", well yes of course it's easy to deliver the standard line to stop doing it, sell what assets exist from that dalliance, and invest the proceeds and any other funds one would otherwise sink into that "thing" going forward. As someone else said, "everyone has their thing". BUT, Who wants a "joyless" life, no matter the FI? The issue really is "Balance" and as you said in your last quoted posted above, "Priorities" as to what's important to you, and now your lovely wife and your future family. (Duly noted that you did say you have no children "yet".)

So back to your question: You asked, "Should I be concerned to the point I should sell some of them?" Ultimately, only you can make that decision, OP. Here's my view, for what it's worth given how much you're paying for my and everyone else's advice on this forum, hahaha: Don't sell immediately. Candidly, I think you're jumping the gun but that assumes that you're willing to take the next logical step in your above progression. My suggention: Instead of throwing it all out the window right this minute, as some have suggested because they don't "get" the beauty, workmanship and value that goes into these valued timepieces:

1. For net worth purposes, don't include your watch collection at all as an "investment" or an "asset". IOW, take the most conservative position: Think of it as money spent on a wonderful hobby that brings you great joy, pleasure and happiness, and honors your grandfather's legacy. It's your "thing". I get that and respect it. For purposes of assessing and getting your financial/retirement house in order, though, assign a zero value to it from a net worth perspective for now. You can decide later (per #2 below) based on the advice you get whether it might be wise to sell some of the pieces in order to access what you already know is a WAY GREATER than zero value, in order to accelerate your financial situation. But that's later and up to you. Hey, there are LOTS of people who have figured out how to "monetize" something they did as a hobby and that they never viewed as an "investment", "asset" or "income stream". You're just taking the reverse commute. ; )

2. Follow the forum guidance on posting your current investment situation and financial goals, and ask for guidance on whether or not you're on track to meet your and your wife's goals. You will be floored at how smart and generous the folks here are in helping you and your family get where you want and need to go in order to secure your financial security. Based on the info in your OP, as you've acknowledged, I suspect you're likely a bit behind in getting your retirement accounts to where they should be. However, much depends on your future plans (family, careers, COL, etc.), and you've not shared those.

3. Anyway, once you've gotten the feedback, if you decide you DO need to sell some or all of your watch collection to reach your family's financial goals, others here with far more expertise in watch-collecting have identified themselves in this thread. PM them. They can help you get max dollar for anything you choose to sell.

OP, I commend you and your wife. You are off to a great start having paid off ALL debts (how many of your peers can say THAT?), and having not 1 but 2 RE properties free and clear with one of them income-producing, and more to the point: I commend you both on focusing on your future, and how to reach your envisioned future. :sharebeer Bottom line: I hope something I've said here has been helpful to you, OP. I wish you both nothing but the best.

P.S. I'm no expert in watches, but I know a *bit* for reasons I won't bore you with. I perused the listed items you recalled off the top of your head. Bottom line: Dang, OP. That's one heck of a collection....! :o Oh and I hope you and your lovely wife did something special - that you can afford within your financial goals, of course - for your 40th! Happy birthday!!
Thank you so much for your comments. We are celebrating this weekend as a matter of fact. Big family birthday celebration weekend with myself and two on the wife's side.

I do appreciate everyone's comments. I'm still thinking through some options, some of them I'm so attached to that I wouldn't sell short of some awful emergency (which we hope not to experience).

Yes I will get a plan together on specific asset allocation soon with help from this wonderful forum. Thank you.

mouses
Posts: 3521
Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2015 12:24 am

Re: Watch Collection Reasonable or Unreasonable or Irresponsible?

Post by mouses » Sat Jul 21, 2018 8:55 am

I haven't read all the responses, but I hope you have this insured (probably needs a special addition to your policy) and stored safely.

chevca
Posts: 1769
Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2017 11:22 am

Re: Watch Collection Reasonable or Unreasonable or Irresponsible?

Post by chevca » Sat Jul 21, 2018 9:58 am

penumbra wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 7:27 pm
Well, from my perspctive, you have an issue with “stuff”, judging from your watches and cars. Have you accumulated multiples of other things, too? I can just tell you my perspective. I’m much older, and have accumulated well into 8 figures. Can’t imagine being burdened with so many watches. I’ve often thought I’d take 20 cents on the dollar for everything I own, except my house, and be thrilled to be rid of it all. Maybe 10 cents. It just seems like so much junk.
For all we know the OP has just necessities beyond the watches and cars. The OP seems to enjoy, appreciate, and have a purpose for their cars and watches. While you consider yourself to just have "so much junk". Who has the issue with "stuff"? That's a strong argument you make there... :wink: :happy

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