Any Boglehead powerlifters?

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NHRATA01
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Re: Any Boglehead powerlifters?

Post by NHRATA01 » Tue Jul 03, 2018 2:34 pm

2015 wrote:
Tue Jul 03, 2018 1:25 pm

Never. Because with all things in life based on a system (the body is based on a biological system), more can go wrong than right. As Charlie Munger would say, "invert, always invert." In this regard, all I want to know is the date of my major injury so I don't show up that day.


In goal setting, always ask, "and then what?" You're a powerlifter and you throw your back out. Or, you're an eighty year old who engaged in powerlifting when younger. What do you think the likely impact your prior actions will have had on your biology?
There is plenty of evidence showing the biological impact of a sedentary lifestyle. Now, not everyone needs to be a power lifter going for north of 300lbs on the major lifts. But there is also a preponderance of evidence showing the benefits to at least some level of strength training over the entirety of an individual's life, in most cases even exceeding that of cardio work.

In this case, inaction will cause more to go wrong than go right.

To stretch it to investing, simply setting and forgetting your portfolio will likely cause more to go wrong than go right. Occasional re balancing, adjusting asset allocation based on age/changing risk tolerance, and continuously lowering costs are more healthy ways to invest then neglect.

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Re: Any Boglehead powerlifters?

Post by corn18 » Tue Jul 03, 2018 3:18 pm

2015 wrote:
Tue Jul 03, 2018 1:25 pm
corn18 wrote:
Tue Jul 03, 2018 1:03 pm
2015 wrote:
Tue Jul 03, 2018 12:57 pm
Never. Because with all things in life based on a system (the body is based on a biological system), more can go wrong than right. As Charlie Munger would say, "invert, always invert." In this regard, all I want to know is the date of my major injury so I don't show up that day.
Huh? :?: :?:
It's not really helpful if I answer this because power comes from learning how we are out own worst enemies when it comes to decision making. What is helpful is to learn on your own the power of inversion in thinking, of subtractive versus additive modeling in goal setting. This helps in all areas of life, including investing.

In goal setting, always ask, "and then what?" You're a powerlifter and you throw your back out. Or, you're an eighty year old who engaged in powerlifting when younger. What do you think the likely impact your prior actions will have had on your biology?

Munger on inversion:
“The way complex adaptive systems work and the way mental constructs work is that problems frequently get easier, I’d even say usually are easier to solve, if you turn them around in reverse. In other words, if you want to help India, the question you should ask is not “how can I help India,” it’s “what is doing the worst damage in India? What will automatically do the worst damage and how do I avoid it?” “Figure out what you don’t want and avoid it and you’ll get what you do want”.
Or the opposite could be true. My cardiologist said it is likely the only reason I am still alive is because my heart was strong as an ox from powerlifting and that's why the heart attack didn't kill me. Powerlifting didn't clog my arteries, it saved my life.

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Re: Any Boglehead powerlifters?

Post by Shallowpockets » Tue Jul 03, 2018 3:26 pm

Other than to do it, what is the point of a one rep press, or a one rep anything?

I am sure you see it as a test. A marker for your fitness. What happens when you reach a maximum and you can no longer exceed that? Is that how you know your maximum fitness level? Then what.
If you are a bodybuilder than there is that personal aspect of the lifts.
I ask this because I often wonder how fit do I need to be? And if a bench press of 10# more makes any difference beyond pride.
If I can do all the things I want to in life that require a certain amount of fitness, can I back it down?

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Re: Any Boglehead powerlifters?

Post by letsgobobby » Tue Jul 03, 2018 3:59 pm

simplesimon wrote:
Mon Jul 02, 2018 4:25 pm
I don't call myself a powerlifter as I don't train singles, but I follow Mark Rippetoe/Starting Strength pretty closely.

I train for about 60-90 minutes a day during lunch on weekdays in a city gym (I work at a desk) and do 5x5 with ascending weight, one major lift per day.

33 year old, 6'3" 260lb, male
Press 187x5
Bench press 285x5
Squat 355x5
Deadlift 395x5

Wish I had more time to train.
I also discovered Starting Strength and recently have read The Barbell Prescription (for those of over 40).

I’ve markedly improved my deadlift in six months. My squat is slower and I am cautious because of back problems. My row is much better. I am off pressing movements now because of a shoulder problem but surprisingly, the squatting/deads/weighted pull ups have kept some chest development going.

The part that’s hard for me is the eating. Eating at a caloric excess to support muscle growth, and trying to get 1+ gm protein per lb daily is pretty tough. I run on off days so my overall health is fine but I don’t know if I really want to get bigger and stronger if it means continuing to eat hundreds of extra calories all the time.

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Re: Any Boglehead powerlifters?

Post by winterfan » Tue Jul 03, 2018 4:06 pm

Yes! I have an Olympic setup in my basement (squat rack, bench, barbell, etc.). Years of crazy yo-yo dieting have pulverized my muscles. I love what it has done to my body composition so far. I lift three times a week, sometimes two if my schedule is crazy.

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Re: Any Boglehead powerlifters?

Post by corn18 » Tue Jul 03, 2018 4:33 pm

Shallowpockets wrote:
Tue Jul 03, 2018 3:26 pm
Other than to do it, what is the point of a one rep press, or a one rep anything?

I am sure you see it as a test. A marker for your fitness. What happens when you reach a maximum and you can no longer exceed that? Is that how you know your maximum fitness level? Then what.
If you are a bodybuilder than there is that personal aspect of the lifts.
I ask this because I often wonder how fit do I need to be? And if a bench press of 10# more makes any difference beyond pride.
If I can do all the things I want to in life that require a certain amount of fitness, can I back it down?
Why does the sprinter try to go faster? Why does any athlete try to improve? I can't explain it, I just know it. I am a type A warrior and I must improve or die. Until I can't. Then I move on.

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Re: Any Boglehead powerlifters?

Post by guymontag » Tue Jul 03, 2018 4:58 pm

For those interested in general fitness with regards to aging and functionality look into Dan John, a well regarded and articulate strength coach. He addresses many concerns and attitudes on this topic. Plenty of content via YouTube and his personal blog.

As for me, I don’t have some of the lifts or experience as some that have replied but I’m on a powerlifting routine and like to emulate Rich Hawthorne as his strength to weight ratio is simply phenomenal.

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Re: Any Boglehead powerlifters?

Post by simplesimon » Tue Jul 03, 2018 5:01 pm

letsgobobby wrote:
Tue Jul 03, 2018 3:59 pm
simplesimon wrote:
Mon Jul 02, 2018 4:25 pm
I don't call myself a powerlifter as I don't train singles, but I follow Mark Rippetoe/Starting Strength pretty closely.

I train for about 60-90 minutes a day during lunch on weekdays in a city gym (I work at a desk) and do 5x5 with ascending weight, one major lift per day.

33 year old, 6'3" 260lb, male
Press 187x5
Bench press 285x5
Squat 355x5
Deadlift 395x5

Wish I had more time to train.
I also discovered Starting Strength and recently have read The Barbell Prescription (for those of over 40).

I’ve markedly improved my deadlift in six months. My squat is slower and I am cautious because of back problems. My row is much better. I am off pressing movements now because of a shoulder problem but surprisingly, the squatting/deads/weighted pull ups have kept some chest development going.

The part that’s hard for me is the eating. Eating at a caloric excess to support muscle growth, and trying to get 1+ gm protein per lb daily is pretty tough. I run on off days so my overall health is fine but I don’t know if I really want to get bigger and stronger if it means continuing to eat hundreds of extra calories all the time.
+1 for The Barbell Prescription - I'm a huge fan. I'm at a point where part of me worries that if my parents don't do Starting Strength they're going to trip, fall, and die.

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Re: Any Boglehead powerlifters?

Post by RagnarRahl » Tue Jul 03, 2018 7:19 pm

I do the basic powerlifts and a few other weight training exercises. I am 70 and am not lifting very heavy. So I am using the three basic exercises from powerlifting, but am not really powerlifting.
I lift three days a week. The first day is squats 1 set of 12, one of 8 (mostly as warmups) and a set of 4-6. I also do crunches and one high rep set of calf raises that day.
The second day is deadlifts with the same three sets and three similar sets of barbell rows.
The third day is bench press with the same three sets. I then do two sets each of dumbell presses and curls, and one high rep set of shrugs.
I walk three or four days on the days I don't lift.
I do my lifting in a home gym with a half cage.
If you are older and can squat it is very good for you because it will keep you from getting the old man's loss of all muscle in your rear end. (I know some of you have posted that you can't squat due to knee or back injuries.)

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Re: Any Boglehead powerlifters?

Post by MJW » Tue Jul 03, 2018 7:26 pm

Shallowpockets wrote:
Tue Jul 03, 2018 3:26 pm
Other than to do it, what is the point of a one rep press, or a one rep anything?

I am sure you see it as a test. A marker for your fitness.
Strength.
Shallowpockets wrote:
Tue Jul 03, 2018 3:26 pm
What happens when you reach a maximum and you can no longer exceed that? Is that how you know your maximum fitness level? Then what.
If you are a bodybuilder than there is that personal aspect of the lifts.
I ask this because I often wonder how fit do I need to be? And if a bench press of 10# more makes any difference beyond pride.
If I can do all the things I want to in life that require a certain amount of fitness, can I back it down?
Why not just set goals that are appropriate for you and what you want?

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Re: Any Boglehead powerlifters?

Post by skjoldur » Tue Jul 03, 2018 7:29 pm

letsgobobby wrote:
Tue Jul 03, 2018 3:59 pm
The part that’s hard for me is the eating. Eating at a caloric excess to support muscle growth, and trying to get 1+ gm protein per lb daily is pretty tough. I run on off days so my overall health is fine but I don’t know if I really want to get bigger and stronger if it means continuing to eat hundreds of extra calories all the time.
1 g/lb protein may be overkill:

https://bayesianbodybuilding.com/the-my ... ybuilders/
Take Home Messages
• There is normally no advantage to consuming more than 0.82g/lb (1.8g/kg) of protein per day to preserve or build muscle for natural trainees. This already includes a mark-up, since most research finds no more benefits after 0.64g/lb.
• Optimal protein intake decreases with training age, because your body becomes more efficient at preventing protein breakdown resulting from training and less protein is needed for the increasingly smaller amount of muscle that is built after each training session.

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Re: Any Boglehead powerlifters?

Post by MJW » Tue Jul 03, 2018 7:32 pm

If the thread digresses much further into a debate/discussion about protein intake it's likely to be closed. Just putting that out there.

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Re: Any Boglehead powerlifters?

Post by randomguy » Tue Jul 03, 2018 7:57 pm

NHRATA01 wrote:
Tue Jul 03, 2018 2:34 pm


There is plenty of evidence showing the biological impact of a sedentary lifestyle. Now, not everyone needs to be a power lifter going for north of 300lbs on the major lifts. But there is also a preponderance of evidence showing the benefits to at least some level of strength training over the entirety of an individual's life, in most cases even exceeding that of cardio work.

In this case, inaction will cause more to go wrong than go right.

To stretch it to investing, simply setting and forgetting your portfolio will likely cause more to go wrong than go right. Occasional re balancing, adjusting asset allocation based on age/changing risk tolerance, and continuously lowering costs are more healthy ways to invest then neglect.
The issue is that more is not always better than less. Running 60 mins 4x week is better than sitting on your butt. Statistically it isn't as good as running 30mins though. Same things works for lifting. Lifting to improve requires you to take on risk of injury. If health is the only reason you are doing this stuff, the level of lifting people are talking about is overkill.

But there are a lot more reasons to exercise than for health benefits. And the risks just aren't high enough to avoid doing something that you want to.

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Re: Any Boglehead powerlifters?

Post by 2pedals » Tue Jul 03, 2018 8:02 pm

Powerlifting is that when someone buys powershares? :twisted:

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Re: Any Boglehead powerlifters?

Post by LadyGeek » Tue Jul 03, 2018 8:34 pm

MJW wrote:
Tue Jul 03, 2018 7:32 pm
If the thread digresses much further into a debate/discussion about protein intake it's likely to be closed. Just putting that out there.
Here's why: Re: Dental implant or retreatment of root canal?

Please be careful not to go into details about health benefits.
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Re: Any Boglehead powerlifters?

Post by CFM300 » Tue Jul 03, 2018 10:02 pm

Shallowpockets wrote:
Tue Jul 03, 2018 3:26 pm
What happens when you reach a maximum and you can no longer exceed that? Is that how you know your maximum fitness level? Then what.
Now that I'm over 50, I've found that I have to train hard and strive for improvement just to maintain what I have. This applies not only to strength, but also endurance, mobility, concentration, math skills, etc. I'm fighting hard just to slow the decline!

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Re: Any Boglehead powerlifters?

Post by CFM300 » Tue Jul 03, 2018 10:08 pm

MJW wrote:
Tue Jul 03, 2018 11:27 am
...I was struck by the parallels in philosophy and the sometimes militant adherence/advocacy between the 3-fund approach here and the Rippetoe/SS methodology...
I think the true 3-fund approach would be Bill Starr's program from the Strongest Shall Survive: Squat, Power Clean, Bench.

In all seriousness, I can't stand Rippetoe's low-bar squat mechanics.

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Re: Any Boglehead powerlifters?

Post by Cycle » Tue Jul 03, 2018 10:20 pm

I did 5x5 stronglifts the last year. I really enjoyed it, but would always get to a plateau, then injured myself and have to go way down in weight to get the form fixed.

Now I'm doing solely aerobic training to try and get 8 minutes off my marathon time and qualify for Boston. MAF method. Hoping to not train a single anaerobic fiber for the next 4 months. Not even doing a sit-up.

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Re: Any Boglehead powerlifters?

Post by MJW » Tue Jul 03, 2018 10:30 pm

CFM300 wrote:
Tue Jul 03, 2018 10:08 pm
MJW wrote:
Tue Jul 03, 2018 11:27 am
...I was struck by the parallels in philosophy and the sometimes militant adherence/advocacy between the 3-fund approach here and the Rippetoe/SS methodology...
I think the true 3-fund approach would be Bill Starr's program from the Strongest Shall Survive: Squat, Power Clean, Bench.

In all seriousness, I can't stand Rippetoe's low-bar squat mechanics.
I was thinking mainly about the dogma associated with Rip's followers. I enjoyed reading Starr's book.

I thought Rip's squat was more of a middle ground between high bar/oly and powerlifter, but it's been a while since I've been in that world so I could be mistaken.

I remember switching to a high bar squat later in my lifting tenure and having better success with it. It actually helped my low bar squat when I switched back to it. I was surprised by the results.

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Re: Any Boglehead powerlifters?

Post by HRPennypacker » Tue Jul 03, 2018 11:14 pm

CFM300 wrote:
Tue Jul 03, 2018 10:08 pm
In all seriousness, I can't stand Rippetoe's low-bar squat mechanics.
Really? Switching to low-bar improved things considerably for me. I can do more weight, it feels better, etc.

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Re: Any Boglehead powerlifters?

Post by CFM300 » Tue Jul 03, 2018 11:35 pm

HRPennypacker wrote:
Tue Jul 03, 2018 11:14 pm
CFM300 wrote:
Tue Jul 03, 2018 10:08 pm
In all seriousness, I can't stand Rippetoe's low-bar squat mechanics.
Really? Switching to low-bar improved things considerably for me. I can do more weight, it feels better, etc.
I realize that a lot of people like it and use it successfully. Not me. I no longer coach it either, except in limited cases -- like when someone is missing an ACL. But if it's working for you, fantastic.

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Re: Any Boglehead powerlifters?

Post by CaliJim » Wed Jul 04, 2018 12:01 am

Never competed in power lifting. Soccer was my sport growing up and through college. I won't tell you my Power Lifting PRs...too embarrassingly light....but I love the power lifts for limit strength development, and oly lifts for speed and power. I got back into a disciplined exercise regime in my late 40's via xfit. Eventually outfitted a home gym and did Starting Strength and then the 5x5 Texas Method when I plateaued on SS. Now at 60 I do more Yoga and Interval Training than lifting. I like group classes at the gym. But I do power lift occasionally w/ Dear Daughter, with whom I'm very happy for her interest in this weight lifting thing.

Staying physically strong is awesome. I love being supple and strong enough to get stuff done about the house and garden without tiring or worrying I might hurt myself.

Have any of you all read "Becoming a Supple Leapard" by K Starret?
https://www.amazon.com/Becoming-Supple- ... 1628600837
I've been a fan of his for years but just found out about the book and am starting to read it now.
-calijim- | | For more info, click this Wiki

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Re: Any Boglehead powerlifters?

Post by simplesimon » Wed Jul 04, 2018 7:14 am

In true Starting Strength fashion, I think the "three-lift portfolio" is the overhead press, squat, and deadlift.

Bill Starr's TSSS targets coaches who need to train a whole team of football players most effectively with limited resources. In it, he recommends omitting the deadlift because of how difficult it can be to maintain a proper lower back position in the lift and that for power development, power cleans will get your athlete where he needs to be. It's hard for a coach to make sure that 40+ people are doing heavy deadlifts at the same time all with proper technique. No disagreement there.

However, he does believe that "the deadlift is a most beneficial exercise for men and women and athletes of both sexes of all ages."

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Re: Any Boglehead powerlifters?

Post by letsgobobby » Wed Jul 04, 2018 8:03 am

Cycle wrote:
Tue Jul 03, 2018 10:20 pm
I did 5x5 stronglifts the last year. I really enjoyed it, but would always get to a plateau, then injured myself and have to go way down in weight to get the form fixed.

Now I'm doing solely aerobic training to try and get 8 minutes off my marathon time and qualify for Boston. MAF method. Hoping to not train a single anaerobic fiber for the next 4 months. Not even doing a sit-up.
Maybe some middle ground would be appropriate?

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Re: Any Boglehead powerlifters?

Post by jackietreehorn » Wed Jul 04, 2018 8:24 am

simplesimon wrote:
Wed Jul 04, 2018 7:14 am
In true Starting Strength fashion, I think the "three-lift portfolio" is the overhead press, squat, and deadlift.

Bill Starr's TSSS targets coaches who need to train a whole team of football players most effectively with limited resources. In it, he recommends omitting the deadlift because of how difficult it can be to maintain a proper lower back position in the lift and that for power development, power cleans will get your athlete where he needs to be. It's hard for a coach to make sure that 40+ people are doing heavy deadlifts at the same time all with proper technique. No disagreement there.

However, he does believe that "the deadlift is a most beneficial exercise for men and women and athletes of both sexes of all ages."
By no means should you take my reply as rude, or disrespectful, as I am critiquing Starr’s belief. Did he really say that? Was he advocating 40+ people doing power cleans instead of deadlifting? If so, I find that to be insane.

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Re: Any Boglehead powerlifters?

Post by simplesimon » Wed Jul 04, 2018 8:40 am

jackietreehorn wrote:
Wed Jul 04, 2018 8:24 am
simplesimon wrote:
Wed Jul 04, 2018 7:14 am
In true Starting Strength fashion, I think the "three-lift portfolio" is the overhead press, squat, and deadlift.

Bill Starr's TSSS targets coaches who need to train a whole team of football players most effectively with limited resources. In it, he recommends omitting the deadlift because of how difficult it can be to maintain a proper lower back position in the lift and that for power development, power cleans will get your athlete where he needs to be. It's hard for a coach to make sure that 40+ people are doing heavy deadlifts at the same time all with proper technique. No disagreement there.

However, he does believe that "the deadlift is a most beneficial exercise for men and women and athletes of both sexes of all ages."
By no means should you take my reply as rude, or disrespectful, as I am critiquing Starr’s belief. Did he really say that? Was he advocating 40+ people doing power cleans instead of deadlifting? If so, I find that to be insane.
I meant over 40 student athletes in one gym session, not people over the age of 40.

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Re: Any Boglehead powerlifters?

Post by squirm » Wed Jul 04, 2018 8:52 am

I've been lifting and doing cardio for over thirty years consistently, on vacations I still go to the gym.

I find if I don't go for a week do to a hectic schedule, my body lets me know.

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Re: Any Boglehead powerlifters?

Post by jackietreehorn » Wed Jul 04, 2018 9:20 am

simplesimon wrote:
Wed Jul 04, 2018 8:40 am
jackietreehorn wrote:
Wed Jul 04, 2018 8:24 am
simplesimon wrote:
Wed Jul 04, 2018 7:14 am
In true Starting Strength fashion, I think the "three-lift portfolio" is the overhead press, squat, and deadlift.

Bill Starr's TSSS targets coaches who need to train a whole team of football players most effectively with limited resources. In it, he recommends omitting the deadlift because of how difficult it can be to maintain a proper lower back position in the lift and that for power development, power cleans will get your athlete where he needs to be. It's hard for a coach to make sure that 40+ people are doing heavy deadlifts at the same time all with proper technique. No disagreement there.

However, he does believe that "the deadlift is a most beneficial exercise for men and women and athletes of both sexes of all ages."
By no means should you take my reply as rude, or disrespectful, as I am critiquing Starr’s belief. Did he really say that? Was he advocating 40+ people doing power cleans instead of deadlifting? If so, I find that to be insane.
I meant over 40 student athletes in one gym session, not people over the age of 40.
Yes, I understood that. What I was getting at is if proper form is what Starr is worrying about, the power clean is a much more difficult lift to perform, with more moving parts than the deadlift.

I agree that improper form on either lift can have major consequences, and that overseeing proper form on that many people on either lift is difficult, but I personally would not have anyone perform a power clean until they have mastered the basic lifts.

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Re: Any Boglehead powerlifters?

Post by simplesimon » Wed Jul 04, 2018 9:29 am

jackietreehorn wrote:
Wed Jul 04, 2018 9:20 am
simplesimon wrote:
Wed Jul 04, 2018 8:40 am
jackietreehorn wrote:
Wed Jul 04, 2018 8:24 am
simplesimon wrote:
Wed Jul 04, 2018 7:14 am
In true Starting Strength fashion, I think the "three-lift portfolio" is the overhead press, squat, and deadlift.

Bill Starr's TSSS targets coaches who need to train a whole team of football players most effectively with limited resources. In it, he recommends omitting the deadlift because of how difficult it can be to maintain a proper lower back position in the lift and that for power development, power cleans will get your athlete where he needs to be. It's hard for a coach to make sure that 40+ people are doing heavy deadlifts at the same time all with proper technique. No disagreement there.

However, he does believe that "the deadlift is a most beneficial exercise for men and women and athletes of both sexes of all ages."
By no means should you take my reply as rude, or disrespectful, as I am critiquing Starr’s belief. Did he really say that? Was he advocating 40+ people doing power cleans instead of deadlifting? If so, I find that to be insane.
I meant over 40 student athletes in one gym session, not people over the age of 40.
Yes, I understood that. What I was getting at is if proper form is what Starr is worrying about, the power clean is a much more difficult lift to perform, with more moving parts than the deadlift.

I agree that improper form on either lift can have major consequences, and that overseeing proper form on that many people on either lift is difficult, but I personally would not have anyone perform a power clean until they have mastered the basic lifts.
I agree with you, and yes that is what he said in a section in TSSS that is titled "omit the deadlift". And he does talk about how great a lift the deadlift is in the link above.

I guess the thinking was that even though its technically more difficult to complete the lift, assuming equal proficiency the power clean just isn't heavy enough compared to the deadlift to do the same kind of damage to the lower back.

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Re: Any Boglehead powerlifters?

Post by CFM300 » Wed Jul 04, 2018 10:26 am

simplesimon wrote:
Wed Jul 04, 2018 7:14 am
In true Starting Strength fashion, I think the "three-lift portfolio" is the overhead press, squat, and deadlift.
Starting Strength also includes the power clean and the bench press, so if we're going to pick just three exercises, I think there are lots of reasonable permutations.

The three you've chosen are fantastic, of course, and are what Rippetoe himself chose when proposing the CrossFit Total as a test of strength. They're also the three lifts contested in the relatively new US Strengthlifting Federation.

My own top three for training would be: Overhead Press, Front Squat, and Deadlift.

One advantage to these three is that you don't need a rack, bench, or spotter. If you start every lift from the floor, then you'll also perform a number of cleans (to start the press and to rack the front squat), so I'm sneaking in a fourth lift. And if you perform the exercises in the order listed, then you'll just keep adding weight to the bar as you progress through your workout.

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Re: Any Boglehead powerlifters?

Post by jwaxjwax » Wed Jul 04, 2018 11:18 am

If I had to pick about 5 exercises for general strength development, I'd choose deadlift (off of blocks if needed to reduce low back and overall fatigue), low-bar squat (allows you to move the most amount of weight), bench press with a football bar neutral grip (healthier for shoulders), heavy farmers walks, and weighted pull ups. If someone progressively overloaded with those exercises alone, then you could just about guarantee significant progress.

As to my lifting, bench was my best lift. I could bench just over 300 at a body weight of 150 a couple of years ago. More recently I've switched to neutral grip dumbbells because I think it's a healthier exercise for the shoulders long term. My squat has made the most progress, from once having a goal of 225x8, to now trying to close in on 315x8 and hopefully 415x1 within a year. My deadlift form comes most naturally but my numbers aren't really there. Relatively shorter arms don't help. I hit an easy 405x1 but then failed 420x1 6 inches off the floor. Serious deadlift training takes a bit out of me but I'll make another run at some point.

As to training, I've run a variety of programs. I program for myself now and keep things moderate. As I'm in my late 30s, I take a little extra recovery time and focus on auto-regulation. I do think that squatting at least twice a week is important.

2015
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Re: Any Boglehead powerlifters?

Post by 2015 » Wed Jul 04, 2018 11:51 am

corn18 wrote:
Tue Jul 03, 2018 3:18 pm
2015 wrote:
Tue Jul 03, 2018 1:25 pm
corn18 wrote:
Tue Jul 03, 2018 1:03 pm
2015 wrote:
Tue Jul 03, 2018 12:57 pm
Never. Because with all things in life based on a system (the body is based on a biological system), more can go wrong than right. As Charlie Munger would say, "invert, always invert." In this regard, all I want to know is the date of my major injury so I don't show up that day.
Huh? :?: :?:
It's not really helpful if I answer this because power comes from learning how we are out own worst enemies when it comes to decision making. What is helpful is to learn on your own the power of inversion in thinking, of subtractive versus additive modeling in goal setting. This helps in all areas of life, including investing.

In goal setting, always ask, "and then what?" You're a powerlifter and you throw your back out. Or, you're an eighty year old who engaged in powerlifting when younger. What do you think the likely impact your prior actions will have had on your biology?

Munger on inversion:
“The way complex adaptive systems work and the way mental constructs work is that problems frequently get easier, I’d even say usually are easier to solve, if you turn them around in reverse. In other words, if you want to help India, the question you should ask is not “how can I help India,” it’s “what is doing the worst damage in India? What will automatically do the worst damage and how do I avoid it?” “Figure out what you don’t want and avoid it and you’ll get what you do want”.
Or the opposite could be true. My cardiologist said it is likely the only reason I am still alive is because my heart was strong as an ox from powerlifting and that's why the heart attack didn't kill me. Powerlifting didn't clog my arteries, it saved my life.
One of the things I like most about Munger is he does not respect professional boundaries. As such, I can see him questioning such a statement (as he has done in the past with his own medical providers). I would be very careful in the appeal to authority bias inherent in believing your cardiologist's statement regarding "the only reason I'm alive" as it relates to your physicality. Biology exists in one of the more complex systems found in nature, and you could just as easily be dead as a result of powerlifting. Even if the statement that powerlifting "saved my life" were true, when extrapolated to the general population it suffers from a sample bias of one.

As this relates to investing, I believe it's imperative that we study outside the fields of investing, personal finance, and economics, because only then can we learn to be better thinkers and decision-makers. The feedback from doing so will actually improve our performance as it relates to our own investing, personal finance, and economics.

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Re: Any Boglehead powerlifters?

Post by stoptothink » Wed Jul 04, 2018 12:11 pm

jwaxjwax wrote:
Wed Jul 04, 2018 11:18 am
If I had to pick about 5 exercises for general strength development, I'd choose deadlift (off of blocks if needed to reduce low back and overall fatigue), low-bar squat (allows you to move the most amount of weight), bench press with a football bar neutral grip (healthier for shoulders), heavy farmers walks, and weighted pull ups. If someone progressively overloaded with those exercises alone, then you could just about guarantee significant progress.
+1. I've had to seriously rethink my training in the last few years as injuries and age have made recovery so much more important. It's humbling because I am only 37. I've cut my volume, drastically; it's now about 1/3 of what it was in the past. I also can't squat at all, at least conventionally (with a load directly on my spine) and heavy presses are totally out of the picture. I love deadlifting and am naturally very good at it, but if I do more than about 3 sets of 5 reps with near maximal loads, I'm trashed for the entire week. Some things I am currently focusing on: deadlifting with a pronated and often very wide grip (not even close to maximal loads, but I am greatly increasing grip strength), a lot of weighted carries (again, not super heavy loads) and sled work, weighted pullups, sprints (running, cycling, rowing - the only conventional "cardio" I do is very low intensity stuff with the entire family), and narrow grip pressing with light loads and full RM and pause (focusing on explosive concentric movement and very controlled eccentric phase).

My goal is to simply not hurt and maintain functional strength and conditioning to do stuff with my kids (hiking, family bike rides). Taking it easy and putting more emphasis on recovery hasn't hurt my overall strength and definitely not my body composition; in fact, based upon the mirror I might be in the best overall shape of my life (6'1", ~200, a real <8%bf - real, as in measured in a DEXA).

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Re: Any Boglehead powerlifters?

Post by topper1296 » Wed Jul 04, 2018 1:06 pm

lostdog wrote:
Mon Jul 02, 2018 6:36 pm
Planet fitness. I am not a power lifter but I am getting ripped with almost a 6 pack at 42. I do higher reps around 10 to 15 on bench press and other free weights. More of the definition typre rather than bulk.
Similar story here going for definition over bulk. I have noticed (and some of my co-workers at work) that my back, traps and biceps are looking bigger going to PF at age 44.

On a side note, of all of the services I pay for, Planet Fitness is the best bang for buck out there.

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Re: Any Boglehead powerlifters?

Post by RobLyons » Wed Jul 04, 2018 1:30 pm

I work in an ICU where we see daily the negative consequences of sedentary lifestyle and poor diet. It's very sad and unfortunate. There is a lot of evidence showing what we here are doing is highly beneficial over the long run in terms of physical and mental health.


And although we have experts for everything from nephrology to orthopedic, cardiac, neurology and neurosurgery, pharmacology, burns, surgical, etc, the one area that lacks the most attention is healthy weight management. We all know diet is important but very few docs specialize in diet and exercise. If anyone has a few extra LBS on and is finding it hard to shed, look up Dr Spencer Nadolsky. Wealth of knowledge. :thumbsup


Also I can't stress enough the importance of injury prevention. The #s posted do not matter if you end up with a bad back or busted shoulders for the rest of your life. Good luck and happy 4th
:happy

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Re: Any Boglehead powerlifters?

Post by corn18 » Wed Jul 04, 2018 1:59 pm

2015 wrote:
Wed Jul 04, 2018 11:51 am
corn18 wrote:
Tue Jul 03, 2018 3:18 pm
2015 wrote:
Tue Jul 03, 2018 1:25 pm
corn18 wrote:
Tue Jul 03, 2018 1:03 pm
2015 wrote:
Tue Jul 03, 2018 12:57 pm
Never. Because with all things in life based on a system (the body is based on a biological system), more can go wrong than right. As Charlie Munger would say, "invert, always invert." In this regard, all I want to know is the date of my major injury so I don't show up that day.
Huh? :?: :?:
It's not really helpful if I answer this because power comes from learning how we are out own worst enemies when it comes to decision making. What is helpful is to learn on your own the power of inversion in thinking, of subtractive versus additive modeling in goal setting. This helps in all areas of life, including investing.

In goal setting, always ask, "and then what?" You're a powerlifter and you throw your back out. Or, you're an eighty year old who engaged in powerlifting when younger. What do you think the likely impact your prior actions will have had on your biology?

Munger on inversion:
“The way complex adaptive systems work and the way mental constructs work is that problems frequently get easier, I’d even say usually are easier to solve, if you turn them around in reverse. In other words, if you want to help India, the question you should ask is not “how can I help India,” it’s “what is doing the worst damage in India? What will automatically do the worst damage and how do I avoid it?” “Figure out what you don’t want and avoid it and you’ll get what you do want”.
Or the opposite could be true. My cardiologist said it is likely the only reason I am still alive is because my heart was strong as an ox from powerlifting and that's why the heart attack didn't kill me. Powerlifting didn't clog my arteries, it saved my life.
One of the things I like most about Munger is he does not respect professional boundaries. As such, I can see him questioning such a statement (as he has done in the past with his own medical providers). I would be very careful in the appeal to authority bias inherent in believing your cardiologist's statement regarding "the only reason I'm alive" as it relates to your physicality. Biology exists in one of the more complex systems found in nature, and you could just as easily be dead as a result of powerlifting. Even if the statement that powerlifting "saved my life" were true, when extrapolated to the general population it suffers from a sample bias of one.

As this relates to investing, I believe it's imperative that we study outside the fields of investing, personal finance, and economics, because only then can we learn to be better thinkers and decision-makers. The feedback from doing so will actually improve our performance as it relates to our own investing, personal finance, and economics.
I don’t understand any of this.

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Re: Any Boglehead powerlifters?

Post by abuss368 » Wed Jul 04, 2018 4:22 pm

Powerlifted and bodybuilding for many years - 25 plus.

I ended with a 450 bench press in competition. I used to "play and toy" with the squat and deadlift as it was hard for a 6' guy. My squat was 450 or so and 560 - 600 deadlifts. I could only imagine if I trained those over time like the bench. Bentover barbell rows with 435 for reps. Tricep pushdowns with 185-200 for reps. 200 - 225 barbell curls for reps then 85 - 95 dumbbell curls. Seated should presses was a specialty at 365 for reps. 1,300 - 1,400 leg press with huge range of motion. Incline Press 425 for reps. Dips was another specialty over the years. After 3-4 heavy sets of bench pressing in the 400s, then incline pressing for 3 sets in the 400s, I would do 3 sets of dips with 185 dumbbell chained to my waist for 3-5 reps. That far into the workout essentially made or breaked you! Then finish with 3 sets of 80s for dumbbell flies. Chins with 75s strapped around the waist.

Each muscle group was trained once a week on a 4 or 5 day routine. I gave up hitting a muscle twice a week after the first year and only got stronger as a result. I had the huge benefit of having a very good powerlifter, who was a friend of our family, show me at a young age. Most muscle groups were sore after a workout for 2 - 4 days. Huge amounts of disciple, missing family events, but it worked. The numbers game never lies!

Yeah, there were some dings along the way! I think my wife would love to have the trophies removed!
Last edited by abuss368 on Wed Jul 18, 2018 5:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Any Boglehead powerlifters?

Post by Cycle » Wed Jul 04, 2018 5:59 pm

letsgobobby wrote:
Wed Jul 04, 2018 8:03 am
Cycle wrote:
Tue Jul 03, 2018 10:20 pm
I did 5x5 stronglifts the last year. I really enjoyed it, but would always get to a plateau, then injured myself and have to go way down in weight to get the form fixed.

Now I'm doing solely aerobic training to try and get 8 minutes off my marathon time and qualify for Boston. MAF method. Hoping to not train a single anaerobic fiber for the next 4 months. Not even doing a sit-up.
Maybe some middle ground would be appropriate?
I don't want to risk injury and anaerobic functionality isn't needed much for a flat marathon, at least for people running 3hr marathons. Perhaps for those elites who already have stellar aerobic function it is.

I've seen bumps in 5k times when adding in squats, so I am a believer in weight training helping runners. I think these gains are small compared to what can be gained from further develping the aerobic system.

I will no doubt add in strength training (and interval training), but not until I plateau my aerobic function, which could be a month or a year... who knows.

In three weeks of MAF training, I've already resolved my IT band issue I got from an ironman a year ago. I had been doing yoga and stretching the last year, and couldn't knock it out. Finally put it to bed though with 3 weeks of slow running.

I'm always open to trying new things, but exclusive aerobic training makes sense to me now.

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Re: Any Boglehead powerlifters?

Post by letsgobobby » Wed Jul 04, 2018 6:33 pm

I don't think running marathon is good for the body, and I've run several. I also don't think exclusive powerlifting is adequate for good health. Some combination is likely best for most. Leaving it there given forum policies, etc.

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Re: Any Boglehead powerlifters?

Post by warowits » Wed Jul 04, 2018 7:24 pm

I came to lifting late, at 35. I had not done any exercise, not even goofing off in the gym for over a decade. I had done no strength training at any point in my life. In a little less than a year I got to;

1rms,
415 Squat
235 Bench
425 Deadlift

Since I am just finishing up my first year I still regularly set new PRs. The health benefits are undeniable. I lost 30lbs, but probably closer to 40lbs of fat, since my muscles are noticeably larger. My resting heart rate has dropped about 12 bpm. I started with Stronglifts 5x5, and have moved to the texas method. I feel adrift since linear progression has ended, but I am still posting PRs. I am trying to bring my bench more in line with my other lifts, but it still seems to be lagging.
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Re: Any Boglehead powerlifters?

Post by crg11 » Wed Jul 04, 2018 8:01 pm

Lifted my first barbell ever 9 months ago at age 35 when I joined a local CrossFit gym. I'm a skinny guy with no upper body strength (I'm really close to passing 100# on a clean and jerk), so has been a slow build up, but absolutely love it. Changed everything about my health: my back, knees, and hip feel so much better and stronger. I eat better now and have been slowly gaining weight as I work on increasing my lifts. I've noticed big mental benefits of focus and improving my habits.

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Re: Any Boglehead powerlifters?

Post by letsgobobby » Wed Jul 04, 2018 8:53 pm

despite having no more L4-L5 disc due to degeneration, and facet arthropathy, my pain mostly disappears when I regularly deadlift. If I have to take a few months off, as I did for a shoulder injury this spring, my back got much worse to the point of almost needing injections again. Fortunately i got back into the gym and things are humming along again.

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Re: Any Boglehead powerlifters?

Post by CFM300 » Wed Jul 04, 2018 10:13 pm

crg11 wrote:
Wed Jul 04, 2018 8:01 pm
Lifted my first barbell ever 9 months ago at age 35 when I joined a local CrossFit gym. I'm a skinny guy with no upper body strength (I'm really close to passing 100# on a clean and jerk), so has been a slow build up, but absolutely love it. Changed everything about my health: my back, knees, and hip feel so much better and stronger. I eat better now and have been slowly gaining weight as I work on increasing my lifts. I've noticed big mental benefits of focus and improving my habits.
Fantastic! :beer

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Re: Any Boglehead powerlifters?

Post by Spedward » Thu Jul 05, 2018 7:15 am

I have been lifting for about 20 years, but have gotten to the point whereby it takes months for me to increase the Wright on the bar - but still pushing.

PRs are below

Squat - 495
Dead - 475
Bench - 335
Press - 205

That bench PR is from years ago and do not really do it much due to shoulder issues, but did just square 465 3x3 on Tuesday.

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Re: Any Boglehead powerlifters?

Post by timmy » Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:05 am

Spedward wrote:
Thu Jul 05, 2018 7:15 am
I have been lifting for about 20 years, but have gotten to the point whereby it takes months for me to increase the Wright on the bar - but still pushing.

PRs are below

Squat - 495
Dead - 475
Bench - 335
Press - 205

That bench PR is from years ago and do not really do it much due to shoulder issues, but did just square 465 3x3 on Tuesday.
Big numbers!

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Re: Any Boglehead powerlifters?

Post by LadyGeek » Wed Jul 18, 2018 3:17 pm

FYI - There's a relevant discussion here: Older Women Lifting Weights
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Re: Any Boglehead powerlifters?

Post by HoleInTheAir » Sun Jul 29, 2018 2:12 pm

Lifted weights for football in high school, did a bodybuilding show in college, and then really focused on PL, and got up to a 330 bench, 585 deadlift, and 510 squat. I was about 215 at the time.

Since that time, I started doing some hard running, and managed a 5:28 mile and 19:57 5K at 5'11, 200 pounds.

Now, I don't run much as I find it takes away from squatting, and pulling but currently:

5'11, 195 lbs
Some recents:
Bench - 300x1
Press - 160x5
Squat - 375x10, 465x1
Deadlift - 435x10, 500x4, 550x1


Some of you also might find this cool. For my wedding, one of my good friends who also loves lifting and was a groomsman, did a liftoff with me.

Max Reps #225 Bench
Max Reps #315 Squat
Max Reps #135 Press
Max Reps #405 Deadlift

I won 67 vs 62, going 16/22/14/15, and he went 16/15/18/13

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Re: Any Boglehead powerlifters?

Post by corn18 » Sun Jul 29, 2018 6:07 pm

HoleInTheAir wrote:
Sun Jul 29, 2018 2:12 pm
Lifted weights for football in high school, did a bodybuilding show in college, and then really focused on PL, and got up to a 330 bench, 585 deadlift, and 510 squat. I was about 215 at the time.

Since that time, I started doing some hard running, and managed a 5:28 mile and 19:57 5K at 5'11, 200 pounds.

Now, I don't run much as I find it takes away from squatting, and pulling but currently:

5'11, 195 lbs
Some recents:
Bench - 300x1
Press - 160x5
Squat - 375x10, 465x1
Deadlift - 435x10, 500x4, 550x1


Some of you also might find this cool. For my wedding, one of my good friends who also loves lifting and was a groomsman, did a liftoff with me.

Max Reps #225 Bench
Max Reps #315 Squat
Max Reps #135 Press
Max Reps #405 Deadlift

I won 67 vs 62, going 16/22/14/15, and he went 16/15/18/13
I like the progression of 1,2,3,4 plates.

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Re: Any Boglehead powerlifters?

Post by HoleInTheAir » Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:41 am

corn18 wrote:
Sun Jul 29, 2018 6:07 pm
HoleInTheAir wrote:
Sun Jul 29, 2018 2:12 pm
Lifted weights for football in high school, did a bodybuilding show in college, and then really focused on PL, and got up to a 330 bench, 585 deadlift, and 510 squat. I was about 215 at the time.

Since that time, I started doing some hard running, and managed a 5:28 mile and 19:57 5K at 5'11, 200 pounds.

Now, I don't run much as I find it takes away from squatting, and pulling but currently:

5'11, 195 lbs
Some recents:
Bench - 300x1
Press - 160x5
Squat - 375x10, 465x1
Deadlift - 435x10, 500x4, 550x1


Some of you also might find this cool. For my wedding, one of my good friends who also loves lifting and was a groomsman, did a liftoff with me.

Max Reps #225 Bench
Max Reps #315 Squat
Max Reps #135 Press
Max Reps #405 Deadlift

I won 67 vs 62, going 16/22/14/15, and he went 16/15/18/13
I like the progression of 1,2,3,4 plates.

Yeah, we thought it was cool, too. Was a lot of fun. Made for a sore wedding! Haha

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Re: Any Boglehead powerlifters?

Post by abuss368 » Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:06 pm

HoleInTheAir wrote:
Sun Jul 29, 2018 2:12 pm
Lifted weights for football in high school, did a bodybuilding show in college, and then really focused on PL, and got up to a 330 bench, 585 deadlift, and 510 squat. I was about 215 at the time.

Since that time, I started doing some hard running, and managed a 5:28 mile and 19:57 5K at 5'11, 200 pounds.

Now, I don't run much as I find it takes away from squatting, and pulling but currently:

5'11, 195 lbs
Some recents:
Bench - 300x1
Press - 160x5
Squat - 375x10, 465x1
Deadlift - 435x10, 500x4, 550x1


Some of you also might find this cool. For my wedding, one of my good friends who also loves lifting and was a groomsman, did a liftoff with me.

Max Reps #225 Bench
Max Reps #315 Squat
Max Reps #135 Press
Max Reps #405 Deadlift

I won 67 vs 62, going 16/22/14/15, and he went 16/15/18/13
That is original and funny!
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