How much car to buy reasonably?

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N1CKV
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Re: How much car to buy reasonably?

Post by N1CKV » Tue Jun 19, 2018 7:35 am

From your initial list I would say the Miata / MX-5 looks like a fun car.

From my own experience with my wife's former Audi A6 - It was a fantastic car and fun to drive. The engineers did a phenomenal job on performance and luxury feel. They also did a terrible job on making the thing last. We dumped the car before 100K miles, just as soon as the extended warranty (that more than paid for itself in this case) ended. I would probably only have one again if it were leased or I planned to dump it before warranty was over.

I would also consider a 2 door Nissan Altima, or even the Infiniti equivalent.
I have met a lot of people that claim to love money, but they also seem to be the same people that are in the biggest hurry to get rid of it.

Exafchick
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Re: How much car to buy reasonably?

Post by Exafchick » Tue Jun 19, 2018 10:32 am

Hawaiishrimp wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:37 pm
Daryl wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:36 pm
Honda Civic.

I could afford to drive a "status symbol", but why? The new Civics are a lot of fun!
Civic is on my list.
civic hatchback is very sporty looking, great gas mileage and won't break the bank, even if you bought new!

dsmclone
Posts: 177
Joined: Fri Oct 25, 2013 8:50 am

Re: How much car to buy reasonably?

Post by dsmclone » Tue Jun 19, 2018 10:47 am

Exafchick wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 10:32 am
Hawaiishrimp wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:37 pm
Daryl wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:36 pm
Honda Civic.

I could afford to drive a "status symbol", but why? The new Civics are a lot of fun!
Civic is on my list.
civic hatchback is very sporty looking, great gas mileage and won't break the bank, even if you bought new!

JHC people, he is asking about buying a sports/sporty car. I assume you're you're not talking about a Civic Type R.

This is like asking someone "Can someone recommend a good set of golf clubs" and someone comes back recommending a baseball bat.

alfaspider
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Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2015 4:44 pm

Re: How much car to buy reasonably?

Post by alfaspider » Tue Jun 19, 2018 10:53 am

Exafchick wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 10:32 am
Hawaiishrimp wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:37 pm
Daryl wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:36 pm
Honda Civic.

I could afford to drive a "status symbol", but why? The new Civics are a lot of fun!
Civic is on my list.
civic hatchback is very sporty looking, great gas mileage and won't break the bank, even if you bought new!
Given the OP's parameters, Civic Type R or bust.

With your net worth, you "can afford" just about any new car in existence including Ferraris et al. The question is not what can you afford, but what you are willing to spend as compared to your financial goals. As a car enthusiast, I do think you get into serious diminishing returns as you go up the cost scale. A $100k car isn't twice as good as a $50k car, and may even be inferior in ways that matter to you. I think $30-60k is a reasonable range for something fast and fun, and the list is quite large. Consider:

VW Golf R (new)
Focus RS (new)
Civic Type R (new)
Subaru WRX STI (new)
Ford GT 350 (lightly used)
Camaro ZL1 1LE (lightly used)
C7 Corvette (lightly used)- Personally, I like the Grand Sport
Miata (rumor has it the 2019 will get some very worthwhile upgrades)
F80 M3 (lightly used- note that the M3 will be updated next year)
Cadillac CTS/ATS-V (lightly used)
Mercedes C63 (lightly used)
Alfa Giulia Quadrifoligo (lightly used)
997 Porsche 911 (older used)
Last edited by alfaspider on Tue Jun 19, 2018 11:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

alfaspider
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Re: How much car to buy reasonably?

Post by alfaspider » Tue Jun 19, 2018 11:00 am

Rifampin wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 6:46 pm
Lotus Evora 400
Toyota Camry motor with supercar looks and handling.
This has to be the boglehead sports car choice and will be my next fun car after selling my E46 M3.
I have some experience with Lotuses (Loti?). Fantastic fun, but I wouldn't want one as a daily driver. They handle great and almost feel like an extension of your self, but suffer from abysmal fit and finish and lack the power of similarly priced competitors. I'm glad they exist, but there's a reason why Lotus is a niche firm that tends to be perpetually on the brink of insolvency.

The "Camry motor" thing is slightly misleading, as the Lotus version has some significant head work and a blower on it. You can't expect a motor with a blower and a 7,000rpm redline to have the same reliability as a toned down version with a 6,000rpm redline mated to a lazy CVT designed to keep it out of the power band. Serviceability is also a problem, as the mid-engine fitment makes repairs that would be simple on a Camry very involved (and expensive) tasks.

ssquared87
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Re: How much car to buy reasonably?

Post by ssquared87 » Tue Jun 19, 2018 11:09 am

Hawaiishrimp wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 1:58 am
ssquared87 wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 12:46 am
The M240 isn't really worth it. The M2 is not all that much more if you pick similar options and the M2 drives a lot better. I've had both the M240 and the M2 on the track and while the M240 is pretty good, the M2 is friggin awesome.

The M2 offers more steering feel than the M240 (still numb compared to older cars but M2 is less numb than M240), and the engine is more responsive. The M2 handles much better as well. I think most of that is due to the limited slip differential, plus the suspension is tighter in the M2, and it has more camber so turn in is sharper.

If you drive on terrible roads, then perhaps the M240 would be a better choice, but the M2 is by no means harsh. The M2 has a better sounding engine compared to the M240. This may change on the 2019 model, as the S55 engine from the M3 will be used in the M2, and that engine sounds like garbage. While the 2019 M2 will have more power and some other upgrades vs the 2018, it will also cost $4k or so more, so then the price gap between the M2 and the M240 increases. For 2018, the gap isn't so big.

If you get an M2 prior to the 2019 model, it has a modified N55 engine. the standard 4 year/50k warranty should be fine. Its a pretty reliable engine. The 2019 will have the s55 engine from the M3 which has also proven reliable, but its a more complicated engine and an extended warranty would probably make sense on that version
Thanks for the detail break-down. I don't intend to track the car, and I love the idea of a open-top since I live in CA. Have you encountered or heard of any electronic issues with the car? My biggest worry is repair cost once the car is out of warranty. Thanks.
Honestly, the electrics in the BMWs are the least likely issue. The problems you'll most likely encounter with a BMW are oil leaks around 100k miles, and possibly a bad water pump around that time as well. Fixing the oil leaks is pretty easy and cheap except for the oil pan gasket. The water pump shouldn't be more than 750 to fix, and honestly the water pump may not even be a problem anymore...it was an issue on the N52 engines, but they have redesigned it for the N55 and the B58 (which is in the M240).

As far as tracking vs. not tracking the car, that doesn't matter. You'll feel the difference between the M2 and the M240i instantly on the street even at low speeds. You should really drive both of them before you make a decision. In every day driving, the M2 is still more enjoyable than the M240i even if you are not using the full capability. The only downside is the M2 being slightly harsher (but not bad) and louder (you can code out the sound through exhaust the speakers and then its much quieter) Understand that you're interested in a drop top so M240 may be the only way to go, but absolutely drive the two cars first. The difference is pretty large and you may be swayed to just go with the M2 instead because its much more of a joy to drive.

The other difference to consider, you can probably get a better deal on a 2018 M2 right now. The 2019 has the engine from the M3, so it's getting a price hike and some other upgrades. Many enthusiasts are itching for the 2019 model, so if you can find a 2018 on the dealer lot, you'll probably be able to get quite a large discount on it. Yes, the 2019 will have a more powerful engine, but the 2018 is a blast to drive so I don't really think holding out for the 2019 is worth it.

If you absolutely must go with the M240i for the convertible, do yourself a favor and fit the M-Performance Limited Slip Diff. It makes a big difference in how the car feels on the road. And no, you don't need to go on the track to feel the difference. In normal driving if you're going around a curve you feel the car just bite in and push through the curve in a way which the M240 without the limited slip doesn't feel....the feel is similar to what you'd get in a BRZ.

Also, you may want to consider the 230i. A lot of reviewers prefer the 230 over the 240 due to the lighter weight and better tossability. Yes, the sound isn't as good, but I've driven the 330i with the same engine as the 230i and the car was a blast to drive in the malibu canyons. I never wanted more power out of it. In a 230, you have less weight than the 330 so it would be even better. My 530i has the same engine as the 230i and its a great engine...A bit underpowered for a 5 series, but very smooth and refined. Its much better than the older N26 4 cylinder that was in the 228

Here's a good writeup on the 228 vs the 235 vs the M2:
https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/showt ... ?t=1268894

Since then the 228 has been upgraded to the B46 engine and is now called the 230, and the 235 has been upgraded to the B58 inline 6 engine. Those new engines are spectacular.

EnjoyIt
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Re: How much car to buy reasonably?

Post by EnjoyIt » Tue Jun 19, 2018 11:43 am

May I give you a bit of a different discussion. I get where you are coming from. You make good money, and have been saving it for years to create the wealth that you have. Spending it frivolously on something so silly as a fancy car just seams down right stupid because any car gets you from A to B. But lets evaluate your wealth for a few minutes first to see where you really stand because I think it will make your car buying decision a little easier. Answer the following questions for yourself:

1) What do you currently spend every year and how close are you to being financially independent? I personally like 25x expenses but there are plenty of people here who think 33x is better. You will need to decide what financial independence likes like to you.

2) Do you have any intentions of going part time or retiring early?

3) If starting in 2019 you stopped adding any money to retirement accounts how long would it take you to be financially independent from pure growth. Figure it out for 3%, 4% and 5% growth just to see where you stand.

4) Next figure it out with contributions?

5) Consider the worst case scenario where you quite tomorrow, sell your home and move into something worth 1/2 the price. I put this one in because I bet you would be financially independent in a lower cost home location.

Now that you have a decent financial perspective I think you will find that you are doing pretty damn well and that you can afford spending a little money on a sporty car even if you do it just once. Based on your current wealth and what looks to be your spending I would not go over $60k on a car. So the next step is for you to decide what are the most important features of a vehicle to you. Is it acceleration, comfort, showiness, handling, or reliability. Your answer will help decide what to get.

Personally I think getting a sports car and never taking it to a HPDE event (High performance driving education) is such a waste. It is just as silly as getting a huge pickup truck and never hauling anything with it. Getting a car with better brakes and handling just to go around an on ramp of a highway is using a tiny fraction of the potential of the vehicle. Personally, If I was you I would get a sporty car and take it to an HPDE event at least once. The Miata is a perfect car for this. It is sporty, can take the top down, fun to drive and great at the track. If you want something with a little more comfort maybe a Porsche is your answer but that comes with more expensive service and maintenance. A Porsche Caymen can be had for about $45050k. Lotus is a fun car to drive but it is not a commuter car. There is no comfort in a Lotus. Maybe the car for you is something in between such as an Audi S4 which is fast and comfortable and I believe can be bought used for around $35k. Something a little lower but more utilitarian Is the Volkswagen Golf R for about $40k new. It is lighter than the Audi but still packs a solid Engine. The Golf GTI is under $30k new but is much less sporty. Personally I do not like what Mercedes Benz has to offer and am sick of seeing 3 series BMWs. In my area it seams like anyone with a little bit of money buys a 3 series. Another good option is the WRX STI which is a powerful car with All Wheel Drive and Japanese so the cost of repair is lower. Lastly if you want the looks and simple 0-60 power with a loud engine look into a Mustang GT or Camaro ZL1. Not much on handling or interior but damn they look good, sound good and feel great hitting that throttle. Lastly we can not talk about sporty cars without bringing up the Corvette. 2 options. One is consider getting a C6 Z06 which is a monster or a newer C7 model. If you really want something interesting then look at the Honda S2000. They stopped making them in 2009 and I am almost positive it will end up being a classic if you keep it long enough. It is like a Miata on steroids. Light, nibble, but with a more powerful engine. I am currently seriously thinking about buying one of these for the track.

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Hawaiishrimp
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Re: How much car to buy reasonably?

Post by Hawaiishrimp » Tue Jun 19, 2018 11:44 am

ssquared87 wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 11:09 am
Hawaiishrimp wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 1:58 am
ssquared87 wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 12:46 am
The M240 isn't really worth it. The M2 is not all that much more if you pick similar options and the M2 drives a lot better. I've had both the M240 and the M2 on the track and while the M240 is pretty good, the M2 is friggin awesome.

The M2 offers more steering feel than the M240 (still numb compared to older cars but M2 is less numb than M240), and the engine is more responsive. The M2 handles much better as well. I think most of that is due to the limited slip differential, plus the suspension is tighter in the M2, and it has more camber so turn in is sharper.

If you drive on terrible roads, then perhaps the M240 would be a better choice, but the M2 is by no means harsh. The M2 has a better sounding engine compared to the M240. This may change on the 2019 model, as the S55 engine from the M3 will be used in the M2, and that engine sounds like garbage. While the 2019 M2 will have more power and some other upgrades vs the 2018, it will also cost $4k or so more, so then the price gap between the M2 and the M240 increases. For 2018, the gap isn't so big.

If you get an M2 prior to the 2019 model, it has a modified N55 engine. the standard 4 year/50k warranty should be fine. Its a pretty reliable engine. The 2019 will have the s55 engine from the M3 which has also proven reliable, but its a more complicated engine and an extended warranty would probably make sense on that version
Thanks for the detail break-down. I don't intend to track the car, and I love the idea of a open-top since I live in CA. Have you encountered or heard of any electronic issues with the car? My biggest worry is repair cost once the car is out of warranty. Thanks.
Honestly, the electrics in the BMWs are the least likely issue. The problems you'll most likely encounter with a BMW are oil leaks around 100k miles, and possibly a bad water pump around that time as well. Fixing the oil leaks is pretty easy and cheap except for the oil pan gasket. The water pump shouldn't be more than 750 to fix, and honestly the water pump may not even be a problem anymore...it was an issue on the N52 engines, but they have redesigned it for the N55 and the B58 (which is in the M240).

As far as tracking vs. not tracking the car, that doesn't matter. You'll feel the difference between the M2 and the M240i instantly on the street even at low speeds. You should really drive both of them before you make a decision. In every day driving, the M2 is still more enjoyable than the M240i even if you are not using the full capability. The only downside is the M2 being slightly harsher (but not bad) and louder (you can code out the sound through exhaust the speakers and then its much quieter) Understand that you're interested in a drop top so M240 may be the only way to go, but absolutely drive the two cars first. The difference is pretty large and you may be swayed to just go with the M2 instead because its much more of a joy to drive.

The other difference to consider, you can probably get a better deal on a 2018 M2 right now. The 2019 has the engine from the M3, so it's getting a price hike and some other upgrades. Many enthusiasts are itching for the 2019 model, so if you can find a 2018 on the dealer lot, you'll probably be able to get quite a large discount on it. Yes, the 2019 will have a more powerful engine, but the 2018 is a blast to drive so I don't really think holding out for the 2019 is worth it.

If you absolutely must go with the M240i for the convertible, do yourself a favor and fit the M-Performance Limited Slip Diff. It makes a big difference in how the car feels on the road. And no, you don't need to go on the track to feel the difference. In normal driving if you're going around a curve you feel the car just bite in and push through the curve in a way which the M240 without the limited slip doesn't feel....the feel is similar to what you'd get in a BRZ.

Also, you may want to consider the 230i. A lot of reviewers prefer the 230 over the 240 due to the lighter weight and better tossability. Yes, the sound isn't as good, but I've driven the 330i with the same engine as the 230i and the car was a blast to drive in the malibu canyons. I never wanted more power out of it. In a 230, you have less weight than the 330 so it would be even better. My 530i has the same engine as the 230i and its a great engine...A bit underpowered for a 5 series, but very smooth and refined. Its much better than the older N26 4 cylinder that was in the 228

Here's a good writeup on the 228 vs the 235 vs the M2:
https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/showt ... ?t=1268894

Since then the 228 has been upgraded to the B46 engine and is now called the 230, and the 235 has been upgraded to the B58 inline 6 engine. Those new engines are spectacular.
Thank you so much for the insight. I will definitely look into the comparison of the three. That're a lot of useful info there. I really appreciate that!
I save and invest my money, so money can make money for me, so I don't have to make money eventually.

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Hawaiishrimp
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Re: How much car to buy reasonably?

Post by Hawaiishrimp » Tue Jun 19, 2018 12:02 pm

EnjoyIt wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 11:43 am
May I give you a bit of a different discussion. I get where you are coming from. You make good money, and have been saving it for years to create the wealth that you have. Spending it frivolously on something so silly as a fancy car just seams down right stupid because any car gets you from A to B. But lets evaluate your wealth for a few minutes first to see where you really stand because I think it will make your car buying decision a little easier. Answer the following questions for yourself:

1) What do you currently spend every year and how close are you to being financially independent? I personally like 25x expenses but there are plenty of people here who think 33x is better. You will need to decide what financial independence likes like to you.

2) Do you have any intentions of going part time or retiring early?

3) If starting in 2019 you stopped adding any money to retirement accounts how long would it take you to be financially independent from pure growth. Figure it out for 3%, 4% and 5% growth just to see where you stand.

4) Next figure it out with contributions?

5) Consider the worst case scenario where you quite tomorrow, sell your home and move into something worth 1/2 the price. I put this one in because I bet you would be financially independent in a lower cost home location.

Now that you have a decent financial perspective I think you will find that you are doing pretty damn well and that you can afford spending a little money on a sporty car even if you do it just once. Based on your current wealth and what looks to be your spending I would not go over $60k on a car. So the next step is for you to decide what are the most important features of a vehicle to you. Is it acceleration, comfort, showiness, handling, or reliability. Your answer will help decide what to get.

Personally I think getting a sports car and never taking it to a HPDE event (High performance driving education) is such a waste. It is just as silly as getting a huge pickup truck and never hauling anything with it. Getting a car with better brakes and handling just to go around an on ramp of a highway is using a tiny fraction of the potential of the vehicle. Personally, If I was you I would get a sporty car and take it to an HPDE event at least once. The Miata is a perfect car for this. It is sporty, can take the top down, fun to drive and great at the track. If you want something with a little more comfort maybe a Porsche is your answer but that comes with more expensive service and maintenance. A Porsche Caymen can be had for about $45050k. Lotus is a fun car to drive but it is not a commuter car. There is no comfort in a Lotus. Maybe the car for you is something in between such as an Audi S4 which is fast and comfortable and I believe can be bought used for around $35k. Something a little lower but more utilitarian Is the Volkswagen Golf R for about $40k new. It is lighter than the Audi but still packs a solid Engine. The Golf GTI is under $30k new but is much less sporty. Personally I do not like what Mercedes Benz has to offer and am sick of seeing 3 series BMWs. In my area it seams like anyone with a little bit of money buys a 3 series. Another good option is the WRX STI which is a powerful car with All Wheel Drive and Japanese so the cost of repair is lower. Lastly if you want the looks and simple 0-60 power with a loud engine look into a Mustang GT or Camaro ZL1. Not much on handling or interior but damn they look good, sound good and feel great hitting that throttle. Lastly we can not talk about sporty cars without bringing up the Corvette. 2 options. One is consider getting a C6 Z06 which is a monster or a newer C7 model. If you really want something interesting then look at the Honda S2000. They stopped making them in 2009 and I am almost positive it will end up being a classic if you keep it long enough. It is like a Miata on steroids. Light, nibble, but with a more powerful engine. I am currently seriously thinking about buying one of these for the track.
Thanks for such helpful advice. It does put things in perspective. I probably need to read this several more times and let it sink in. I always been a "Spend no more than $25k on a car" kind-of guy. Been dreaming about a M3 since high school. Got a job but never pulled the trigger for obvious reasons (i.e, saving for retirement/buying a house/kids etc). There are always higher priorities in life than buying a sport car. Definitely am looking into the cars you mentioned about. Especially interested in s2000, miata, 230/240, brz and s5.
I save and invest my money, so money can make money for me, so I don't have to make money eventually.

BobStrauss
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Re: How much car to buy reasonably?

Post by BobStrauss » Tue Jun 19, 2018 12:27 pm

With your net worth, income, and job stability, you should easily be able to afford a 60k+ vehicle if that’s what you’re truly interested in putting money into. If you have your bases covered with savings to the degree you’re comfortable with, you should be able to spend your disposable income however you please. You’ll get a lot of opinions on here advocating fruglism to a ridiculous extent, but not all of us want to follow the same ascetic path.

dknightd
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Re: How much car to buy reasonably?

Post by dknightd » Tue Jun 19, 2018 12:28 pm

Kenkat wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:17 pm
Considering that your avatar is a yellow BMW, you should buy a yellow BMW.
Everybody knows Blue is the best color for a BMW. Maybe ;)

czr
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Re: How much car to buy reasonably?

Post by czr » Tue Jun 19, 2018 12:30 pm

I test drove a 328i and GTI back to back and bought the latter in proper stick. That bimmer just felt heavy, did not have the road feel and it was $10k more. I think the 2 series is more of what I wanted but with little kids and the need for space it just wasn't in the cards. My brother has an M2 and he loves it but he does not need the room. He does complain that it is punishing on his back and the roads in his area don't help. If I were you I would consider also consider certified as in M235i or 230i as they can be had for $30k and the added warranty will help. The Audi S3 or S4 or Golf R or Cayman should also be in consideration. I think it will all come down to the test drive as you can afford them all initially and the maintenance and so it depends on what you can live with but you are in a good position to pick what you like as there are many options.

ssquared87
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Joined: Tue Apr 02, 2013 9:54 am

Re: How much car to buy reasonably?

Post by ssquared87 » Tue Jun 19, 2018 1:28 pm

czr wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 12:30 pm
I test drove a 328i and GTI back to back and bought the latter in proper stick. That bimmer just felt heavy, did not have the road feel and it was $10k more. I think the 2 series is more of what I wanted but with little kids and the need for space it just wasn't in the cards. My brother has an M2 and he loves it but he does not need the room. He does complain that it is punishing on his back and the roads in his area don't help. If I were you I would consider also consider certified as in M235i or 230i as they can be had for $30k and the added warranty will help. The Audi S3 or S4 or Golf R or Cayman should also be in consideration. I think it will all come down to the test drive as you can afford them all initially and the maintenance and so it depends on what you can live with but you are in a good position to pick what you like as there are many options.
The Cayman is the best out of every car previously mentioned in the thread. It's as fun as the BRZ/86, but more comfortable as a daily.

The downsides are
1. no back seats
2. more expensive than the BMWs both new and used (even getting on e a few years old is close to the price new...the porsches don't depreciate much)
3. Maintenance - Porsche is extremely reliable, but they're challenging to work on. If something goes wrong in a Cayman, its usually an engine out procedure due to it being mid mounted.

That said, I think the trade offs are probably worth it. The Cayman is my top choice if money was no concern, otherwise The 2 series is the better compromise.

Jack FFR1846
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Re: How much car to buy reasonably?

Post by Jack FFR1846 » Tue Jun 19, 2018 1:39 pm

alfaspider wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 11:00 am
Rifampin wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 6:46 pm
Lotus Evora 400
Toyota Camry motor with supercar looks and handling.
This has to be the boglehead sports car choice and will be my next fun car after selling my E46 M3.
I have some experience with Lotuses (Loti?). Fantastic fun, but I wouldn't want one as a daily driver. They handle great and almost feel like an extension of your self, but suffer from abysmal fit and finish and lack the power of similarly priced competitors. I'm glad they exist, but there's a reason why Lotus is a niche firm that tends to be perpetually on the brink of insolvency.

The "Camry motor" thing is slightly misleading, as the Lotus version has some significant head work and a blower on it. You can't expect a motor with a blower and a 7,000rpm redline to have the same reliability as a toned down version with a 6,000rpm redline mated to a lazy CVT designed to keep it out of the power band. Serviceability is also a problem, as the mid-engine fitment makes repairs that would be simple on a Camry very involved (and expensive) tasks.
An earlier N/A Evora would be a potentially great choice. Prices are very reasonable. The car is as docile to drive as an S4. When I spent an hour test driving a N/A Evora, back when I was considering trading my Elise, my immediate impression was that it drove like an S4 (I have owned one of those). They are MUCH bigger and MUCH more civilized than an Elise/Exige. After my older son graduates college and younger son graduates (private) high school, an Evora is on my short list. I'm keeping an eye on one owned by the previous owner of the Elise that I owned for 4 years as he gets tired of cars and moves on.

An Evora is certainly not as fun to drive as an Elise, nor does it handle nearly as well, being 50% heavier but neither does anything short of an Ariel Atom. But it's a very nice driving car that gets attention and has the same great forum support over on LotusTalk.
Bogle: Smart Beta is stupid

RollTide31457
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Re: How much car to buy reasonably?

Post by RollTide31457 » Tue Jun 19, 2018 1:47 pm

F-150. Great vehicle for tailgating.

caffeperfavore
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Re: How much car to buy reasonably?

Post by caffeperfavore » Tue Jun 19, 2018 2:04 pm

Audi S4.

Sporty, nimble, and fun, yet comfortable for a daily driver. Four doors for friends to ride along and a functional trunk to throw stuff into. Fancy enough that you can get your nice car fix, but not so expensive that you'll stay awake at night. Audi reliability has also come a long way. I only had mine for four years until we outgrew it, but it never gave us a problem. Not so much as a rattle. Others I know have also had good experiences too.

A friend is currently enjoying an S3, which is a rabid little badger of a car. It might be more fun than the S4. Something to consider as well.

WhiteMaxima
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Re: How much car to buy reasonably?

Post by WhiteMaxima » Tue Jun 19, 2018 2:55 pm

RollTide31457 wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 1:47 pm
F-150. Great vehicle for tailgating.
Dodge Ram is more formidable in that sense. As one of the BH said, A $28000 Toyota would be perfect for boring but perfect money saving machine during its life span. No BMW, MB. Like BH investing, boring and price conscuious.

Teague
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Re: How much car to buy reasonably?

Post by Teague » Tue Jun 19, 2018 3:35 pm

No Corvette on the list? They do have some Boglehead features:

Good fuel economy (considering), parts are not made of back-ordered German Unobtanium and are available at any Chevy dealer, and prices for low mileage used models can be quite reasonable.
Semper Augustus

WhiteMaxima
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Re: How much car to buy reasonably?

Post by WhiteMaxima » Tue Jun 19, 2018 3:56 pm

No MB UNIMOG 6x6 on the list?

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corn18
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Re: How much car to buy reasonably?

Post by corn18 » Tue Jun 19, 2018 3:59 pm

I like the new stuff from Alfa Romeo. The 4C Spyder would be my choice. Cost ya $65k, though. I think you can afford it.

unstartable
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Re: How much car to buy reasonably?

Post by unstartable » Tue Jun 19, 2018 6:53 pm

Audi TT mk3. or TTS, or TTRS.

BJJ nerd
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Re: How much car to buy reasonably?

Post by BJJ nerd » Wed Jun 20, 2018 11:16 am

BHs crack me up. OP is looking for a sporty / fun to drive car and people are suggesting civics, accords and camrys.

He has good earnings and a solid NW. I'd be comfortable spending up to 50% of my annual income, but then this is one of my passions.

I vote a used 991.2 Carrera (base).

mervinj7
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Re: How much car to buy reasonably?

Post by mervinj7 » Wed Jun 20, 2018 11:51 am

dknightd wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 12:28 pm
Kenkat wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:17 pm
Considering that your avatar is a yellow BMW, you should buy a yellow BMW.
Everybody knows Blue is the best color for a BMW. Maybe ;)
My wife's dream car when she was growing up in Hawaii was a yellow BMW with a surfboard on top. :sharebeer

However, she recently bought a blue Nissan Leaf. Even with your income, once you factor in two kids and a mortgage in CA, you may end up scaling back on other aspects of your life. That said, with your net worth, my vote is on a Tesla Model S.

md&pharmacist
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Re: How much car to buy reasonably?

Post by md&pharmacist » Wed Jun 20, 2018 5:30 pm

At 38, I purchased a sports car for $170K. Why not a supercar (as long as it's not your daily driver)? You only live once, don't settle for what you don't really want.
Get a Ferrari f430 with 15K miles for about $100K. Or maybe and Audi R8, Nissan GT-R, Bentley Continental GT, Maserati, Porsche 911 Turbo as long as they're 10-15 years old with no more than 15 K miles. You can own it for 20 years and it will barely depreciate at this point, if your lucky possibly appreciate. All the cars you're looking at depreciate much faster.

mountain-lion
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Re: How much car to buy reasonably?

Post by mountain-lion » Wed Jun 20, 2018 5:38 pm

md&pharmacist wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 5:30 pm
Why not a supercar (as long as it's not your daily driver)?
The first sentence in his messages was literally "I am looking to buy a daily car for commute and fun".

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TimeRunner
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Re: How much car to buy reasonably?

Post by TimeRunner » Wed Jun 20, 2018 6:30 pm

Note that OP is in SoCal, so a pure manual shift transmission is painful in typical stop-and-go traffic. That will rule out some fun choices if it's a daily commuter car.
"What'd ya expect in an opera, a happy ending?" -Bugs Bunny ...:... One cannot enlighten the unconscious.

md&pharmacist
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Re: How much car to buy reasonably?

Post by md&pharmacist » Wed Jun 20, 2018 7:05 pm

mountain-lion wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 5:38 pm
md&pharmacist wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 5:30 pm
Why not a supercar (as long as it's not your daily driver)?
The first sentence in his messages was literally "I am looking to buy a daily car for commute and fun".
You're right. I have a BMW M6 convertible for my daily driver. Maybe that can be in the running. OP, your picks for a fun daily driver seem good too.

ssquared87
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Re: How much car to buy reasonably?

Post by ssquared87 » Wed Jun 20, 2018 8:10 pm

TimeRunner wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 6:30 pm
Note that OP is in SoCal, so a pure manual shift transmission is painful in typical stop-and-go traffic. That will rule out some fun choices if it's a daily commuter car.
No it doesn't. I live in the same area and had no problem daily driving a stick before I developed some back issues. Now I still drive it once a week or so in traffic and I never once think "gee, life would be easier if I had an automatic." I do frequently ask myself why I put up with the traffic to begin with though.

On the flip side, my daily driver is auto, and a lot of times I'll be driving that and wish it was manual.

Shifting is muscle memory, traffic is irrelevant. You don't think about shifting. The only time it's a problem is if you're texting and driving, which you obviously shouldn't be doing to begin with.

md&pharmacist
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Re: How much car to buy reasonably?

Post by md&pharmacist » Wed Jun 20, 2018 8:20 pm

ssquared87 wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 8:10 pm
TimeRunner wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 6:30 pm
Note that OP is in SoCal, so a pure manual shift transmission is painful in typical stop-and-go traffic. That will rule out some fun choices if it's a daily commuter car.
No it doesn't. I live in the same area and had no problem daily driving a stick before I developed some back issues. Now I still drive it once a week or so in traffic and I never once think "gee, life would be easier if I had an automatic." I do frequently ask myself why I put up with the traffic to begin with though.

On the flip side, my daily driver is auto, and a lot of times I'll be driving that and wish it was manual.

Shifting is muscle memory, traffic is irrelevant. You don't think about shifting. The only time it's a problem is if you're texting and driving, which you obviously shouldn't be doing to begin with.
Both my daily driver and my exotic have F1 paddle shifters. Much less demanding than manual shifter with clutch, but can redline as you please with the F1 gear shifting. They also have automatic modes for the best of both worlds ( ie. automatic when stuck in traffic). Problem solved!

MotoTrojan
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Re: How much car to buy reasonably?

Post by MotoTrojan » Wed Jun 20, 2018 8:28 pm

Lexus RC350 or LC500.

ssquared87
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Re: How much car to buy reasonably?

Post by ssquared87 » Wed Jun 20, 2018 8:29 pm

md&pharmacist wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 8:20 pm
ssquared87 wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 8:10 pm
TimeRunner wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 6:30 pm
Note that OP is in SoCal, so a pure manual shift transmission is painful in typical stop-and-go traffic. That will rule out some fun choices if it's a daily commuter car.
No it doesn't. I live in the same area and had no problem daily driving a stick before I developed some back issues. Now I still drive it once a week or so in traffic and I never once think "gee, life would be easier if I had an automatic." I do frequently ask myself why I put up with the traffic to begin with though.

On the flip side, my daily driver is auto, and a lot of times I'll be driving that and wish it was manual.

Shifting is muscle memory, traffic is irrelevant. You don't think about shifting. The only time it's a problem is if you're texting and driving, which you obviously shouldn't be doing to begin with.
Both my daily driver and my exotic have F1 paddle shifters. Much less demanding than manual shifter with clutch, but can redline as you please with the F1 gear shifting. They also have automatic modes for the best of both worlds ( ie. automatic when stuck in traffic). Problem solved!
My daily has the paddles also, but its a 5 series, so I suppose its just a boring car in general compared to the sporty cars I prefer...maybe thats part of it.

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TimeRunner
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Re: How much car to buy reasonably?

Post by TimeRunner » Wed Jun 20, 2018 9:41 pm

ssquared87 wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 8:10 pm
TimeRunner wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 6:30 pm
Note that OP is in SoCal, so a pure manual shift transmission is painful in typical stop-and-go traffic. That will rule out some fun choices if it's a daily commuter car.
No it doesn't. I live in the same area and had no problem daily driving a stick before I developed some back issues. Now I still drive it once a week or so in traffic and I never once think "gee, life would be easier if I had an automatic." I do frequently ask myself why I put up with the traffic to begin with though.

On the flip side, my daily driver is auto, and a lot of times I'll be driving that and wish it was manual.

Shifting is muscle memory, traffic is irrelevant. You don't think about shifting. The only time it's a problem is if you're texting and driving, which you obviously shouldn't be doing to begin with.
I had a manual that I drove on the 101 and 405 for a few years in heavy traffic, and it sucked. YMMV. Yes, for subsequent post about Paddle Shifters, they are cool. I specifically mentioned pure manual shift transmissions, which TO ME, sucked in heavy stop and go traffic. Again, YMMV, and something to consider.
"What'd ya expect in an opera, a happy ending?" -Bugs Bunny ...:... One cannot enlighten the unconscious.

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peterinjapan
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Re: How much car to buy reasonably?

Post by peterinjapan » Wed Jun 20, 2018 9:49 pm

I drive a stick when in California, and wouldn't trade it for anything. Here in Japan, where traffic is even more stop-and-go (and where it costs a $25 toll to drive to Tokyo), I am happier with automatic + paddle shifts that I never use, except when driving down a mountain.

alfaspider
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Re: How much car to buy reasonably?

Post by alfaspider » Thu Jun 21, 2018 7:36 am

I prefer a manual in heavy traffic because it means I don't have to cover the brake when traffic is stopped. Hate the "creep forward" behavior that autos exhibit. Interestingly, some electrics allow you to disable the creep. Only time I would sometimes prefer a paddleshift is racing. On the track, your brain can sometimes get overloaded with everything going on and you can almost always drive faster if you aren't worried about your gear shifts. On the other hand, in a track day where I'm just trying to have fun, I still prefer the manual. Different strokes and all.

On an entirely separate note: it's important to consider whether you want a fast car or a fun to drive car. They often overlap but not always. Sometimes, the powerful luxury cars designed for burning down the autobahn will be incredibly quick but not really that fun to drive because they isolate you quite a bit from that speed. On the other hand, cars like the Subaru BRZ may be fun to drive but get left in the dust by some minivans from stop lights. The luxury car will probably be nicer on a commute, while the lightweight sports car will be a lot more fun when you do get to open the taps.

fourwheelcycle
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Re: How much car to buy reasonably?

Post by fourwheelcycle » Thu Jun 21, 2018 7:58 am

alfaspider wrote:
Thu Jun 21, 2018 7:36 am
On an entirely separate note: it's important to consider whether you want a fast car or a fun to drive car. They often overlap but not always. Sometimes, the powerful luxury cars designed for burning down the autobahn will be incredibly quick but not really that fun to drive because they isolate you quite a bit from that speed. On the other hand, cars like the Subaru BRZ may be fun to drive but get left in the dust by some minivans from stop lights. The luxury car will probably be nicer on a commute, while the lightweight sports car will be a lot more fun when you do get to open the taps.
+1. I agree, this is an important consideration. I have tried to stay close to the "fun too drive" divide with my last two cars, a 2003 Honda S2000 and a 2008 BMW 135i. The Honda definitely won on the "fun to drive" scale - it was small, quick, and felt like driving my own private race car. Unfortunately, it made all of its impressive power above 5,000 RPM, which made it quite loud inside for the driver. Driven at more reasonable 2,500 RPM it still cornered great but the power was more like an older VW. Also, it had no back seat and minimal trunk space, so there was no way to bring home a decent size purchase from Home Depot, etc. However, I was still working and drove it all over my rural NE state as part of my job, which was great fun.

After the Honda I resolved to get a car that made much more power at low RPM and also had decent storage room for boxes, fly fishing rods, etc., as I entered retirement. I bought myself a first year, twin turbo, 135i, which came out the same year I retired. It makes fantastic power (torque) at very low RPM and has very good storage space under its hatchback when you drop the rear seats. The equivalent car today is the M240i coupe.

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Hawaiishrimp
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Re: How much car to buy reasonably?

Post by Hawaiishrimp » Fri Jun 22, 2018 12:08 am

I have decided not to buy the sport car for a while. After careful consideration, I'd rather reach $3.0MM first. That is always my primary goal. Need to keep that in focus.
Last edited by Hawaiishrimp on Fri Jun 22, 2018 10:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
I save and invest my money, so money can make money for me, so I don't have to make money eventually.

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Toons
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Re: How much car to buy reasonably?

Post by Toons » Fri Jun 22, 2018 5:26 am

Honda Civic ,Touring



:mrgreen:
"One does not accumulate but eliminate. It is not daily increase but daily decrease. The height of cultivation always runs to simplicity" –Bruce Lee

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