A vehicle that "sits up" but can't afford CRV

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CULater
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Re: A vehicle that "sits up" but can't afford CRV

Post by CULater » Mon Jun 18, 2018 11:41 am

Rupert wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 11:13 am
jadd806 wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 8:53 am

Amusing how all the people who seem to be obsessed with sitting up high always seem to be tailgaters. They feel the need to "see over" the vehicles in front of them because they're so close that the vehicle in front would otherwise comprise a good 1/3 of their total visual area. Maintaining a safe following distance negates most or all of the benefits of "seeing over" other vehicles.
That's funny -- I've had exactly the opposite experience. I find it's typically young women or men (young to middle-aged) driving small sedans who tailgate most often. Most of the people I know who buy SUVs to "sit up higher" are short older women.
Last time I looked I'm not a short older woman. I think lots of people prefer the higher driving position in SUVs. It's a visibility thing. I also like being able to enter and exit without bending over or grabbing the pillars to haul myself out. Since moving to an SUV several years ago, I can't imagine why anyone would buy a sedan, except they're cheaper and get better mileage usually. The sedan is a dying species because a lot of other people feel the same way.
May you have the hindsight to know where you've been, The foresight to know where you're going, And the insight to know when you've gone too far. ~ Irish Blessing

dbr
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Re: A vehicle that "sits up" but can't afford CRV

Post by dbr » Mon Jun 18, 2018 11:48 am

CULater wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 11:41 am
Rupert wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 11:13 am
jadd806 wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 8:53 am

Amusing how all the people who seem to be obsessed with sitting up high always seem to be tailgaters. They feel the need to "see over" the vehicles in front of them because they're so close that the vehicle in front would otherwise comprise a good 1/3 of their total visual area. Maintaining a safe following distance negates most or all of the benefits of "seeing over" other vehicles.
That's funny -- I've had exactly the opposite experience. I find it's typically young women or men (young to middle-aged) driving small sedans who tailgate most often. Most of the people I know who buy SUVs to "sit up higher" are short older women.
Last time I looked I'm not a short older woman. I think lots of people prefer the higher driving position in SUVs. It's a visibility thing. I also like being able to enter and exit without bending over or grabbing the pillars to haul myself out. Since moving to an SUV several years ago, I can't imagine why anyone would buy a sedan, except they're cheaper and get better mileage usually. The sedan is a dying species because a lot of other people feel the same way.
Exactly so.

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Alexa9
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Re: A vehicle that "sits up" but can't afford CRV

Post by Alexa9 » Mon Jun 18, 2018 12:16 pm

CULater wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 11:41 am
Last time I looked I'm not a short older woman. I think lots of people prefer the higher driving position in SUVs. It's a visibility thing. I also like being able to enter and exit without bending over or grabbing the pillars to haul myself out. Since moving to an SUV several years ago, I can't imagine why anyone would buy a sedan, except they're cheaper and get better mileage usually. The sedan is a dying species because a lot of other people feel the same way.
I mostly agree with you. Ford is giving up on sedans. However, sedans are better looking than boxy SUV's and hideous crossovers. They're more nimble driving around town and aerodynamic on the highway. Faster accelerating and braking. Sure an SUV has more clearance and is better in the snow and is heavier, but I wouldn't say it is a better vehicle by any means for the average driver. If you don't get much snow, I don't see much reason to get an SUV. If gas prices go back up, I think people will be changing their tune as well.

smitcat
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Re: A vehicle that "sits up" but can't afford CRV

Post by smitcat » Mon Jun 18, 2018 12:28 pm

Alexa9 wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 12:16 pm
CULater wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 11:41 am
Last time I looked I'm not a short older woman. I think lots of people prefer the higher driving position in SUVs. It's a visibility thing. I also like being able to enter and exit without bending over or grabbing the pillars to haul myself out. Since moving to an SUV several years ago, I can't imagine why anyone would buy a sedan, except they're cheaper and get better mileage usually. The sedan is a dying species because a lot of other people feel the same way.
I mostly agree with you. Ford is giving up on sedans. However, sedans are better looking than boxy SUV's and hideous crossovers. They're more nimble driving around town and aerodynamic on the highway. Faster accelerating and braking. Sure an SUV has more clearance and is better in the snow and is heavier, but I wouldn't say it is a better vehicle by any means for the average driver. If you don't get much snow, I don't see much reason to get an SUV. If gas prices go back up, I think people will be changing their tune as well.

Of course many of us have more than one vehicle and choose what we need/want in each one based upon our needs and desires.
"If you don't get much snow, I don't see much reason to get an SUV."
- snow
- towing
- hauling
- many passengers

z91
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Re: A vehicle that "sits up" but can't afford CRV

Post by z91 » Mon Jun 18, 2018 12:32 pm

Surprised no-one said "Mazda 5" yet. They can be had fairly easily under 10k and no known "catastrophic" issues. The only thing is they don't make them anymore so you will need to buy used, but it's great as they can be had so cheap.

The only thing to watch out for is how the owner used the vehicle, as many were used for transporting goods all the time, so they could have low mileage, but be very rough miles.

inbox788
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Re: A vehicle that "sits up" but can't afford CRV

Post by inbox788 » Mon Jun 18, 2018 12:33 pm

smitcat wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 7:40 am
Data that is a bit more current than 2005 ....
http://www.iihs.org/iihs/topics/t/gener ... r-vehicles
Interesting and surprising numbers.
Historically, the rates of driver deaths per million registered vehicles have been higher for the smaller and lighter vehicles. This was true again in 2016, but the differences were less extreme than they used to be.

[TABLE]Driver deaths per million registered passenger vehicles 1-3 years old, 2016
Small/Med/Large cars are clustered around 40 while Very Large Cars and Small/Medium SUV are around 20.

There are driver factors and car factors, and these numbers suggest to me that some car factors may be at play. Weight factors seem minor comparing Small vs Large cars or Very Large Cars vs Small SUVs. The driver profile of Very Large Cars is IMO the big determinant why it's so much lower than Large Cars.

Are Small/Medium SUV drivers more conservative like Very Large Car drivers?

dbr
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Re: A vehicle that "sits up" but can't afford CRV

Post by dbr » Mon Jun 18, 2018 12:33 pm

Alexa9 wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 12:16 pm
CULater wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 11:41 am
Last time I looked I'm not a short older woman. I think lots of people prefer the higher driving position in SUVs. It's a visibility thing. I also like being able to enter and exit without bending over or grabbing the pillars to haul myself out. Since moving to an SUV several years ago, I can't imagine why anyone would buy a sedan, except they're cheaper and get better mileage usually. The sedan is a dying species because a lot of other people feel the same way.
I mostly agree with you. Ford is giving up on sedans. However, sedans are better looking than boxy SUV's and hideous crossovers. They're more nimble driving around town and aerodynamic on the highway. Faster accelerating and braking. Sure an SUV has more clearance and is better in the snow and is heavier, but I wouldn't say it is a better vehicle by any means for the average driver. If you don't get much snow, I don't see much reason to get an SUV. If gas prices go back up, I think people will be changing their tune as well.
The overwhelming observed fact is that tens if not hundreds of thousands of people have chosen each of the hundreds of available makes/models/trim levels on the market. That means there is no possibility of asking a few people what to buy when it comes to cars. The same applies to beer, whiskey and whisky, where in the country to live, etc., etc. The discussion may provide some helpful information and always does provide lots of preference. Not that I disagree with any preference in particular.

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jadd806
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Location: New England

Re: A vehicle that "sits up" but can't afford CRV

Post by jadd806 » Mon Jun 18, 2018 12:45 pm

CULater wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 11:41 am
Rupert wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 11:13 am
jadd806 wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 8:53 am

Amusing how all the people who seem to be obsessed with sitting up high always seem to be tailgaters. They feel the need to "see over" the vehicles in front of them because they're so close that the vehicle in front would otherwise comprise a good 1/3 of their total visual area. Maintaining a safe following distance negates most or all of the benefits of "seeing over" other vehicles.
That's funny -- I've had exactly the opposite experience. I find it's typically young women or men (young to middle-aged) driving small sedans who tailgate most often. Most of the people I know who buy SUVs to "sit up higher" are short older women.
Last time I looked I'm not a short older woman. I think lots of people prefer the higher driving position in SUVs. It's a visibility thing. I also like being able to enter and exit without bending over or grabbing the pillars to haul myself out. Since moving to an SUV several years ago, I can't imagine why anyone would buy a sedan, except they're cheaper and get better mileage usually. The sedan is a dying species because a lot of other people feel the same way.
Fair enough, I'm pretty young so ease of getting in/out of the car doesn't really factor in to my decisions. But again, I've driven several SUVs and I'll always choose the nimbleness and maneuverability of a sedan over a bit more visibility.

I doubt sedans are dying, they're just in low demand right now. When gas prices plummeted, it seems most Americans just put that line item savings into a new SUV payment. It will be interesting to see what happens if the conversation turns to $5/gallon gasoline again. The surge in popularity of 72 month and now 84 month auto loans, combined with the ridiculously low savings rates of the average American signals to me that the trend towards SUVs is more likely a temporary shift. Obviously the Bogleheads will be fine, but I can imagine more than a few future scenarios where impound lots are filled to the brim with the SUVs being bought right now.

smitcat
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Re: A vehicle that "sits up" but can't afford CRV

Post by smitcat » Mon Jun 18, 2018 12:57 pm

inbox788 wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 12:33 pm
smitcat wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 7:40 am
Data that is a bit more current than 2005 ....
http://www.iihs.org/iihs/topics/t/gener ... r-vehicles
Interesting and surprising numbers.
Historically, the rates of driver deaths per million registered vehicles have been higher for the smaller and lighter vehicles. This was true again in 2016, but the differences were less extreme than they used to be.

[TABLE]Driver deaths per million registered passenger vehicles 1-3 years old, 2016
Small/Med/Large cars are clustered around 40 while Very Large Cars and Small/Medium SUV are around 20.

There are driver factors and car factors, and these numbers suggest to me that some car factors may be at play. Weight factors seem minor comparing Small vs Large cars or Very Large Cars vs Small SUVs. The driver profile of Very Large Cars is IMO the big determinant why it's so much lower than Large Cars.

Are Small/Medium SUV drivers more conservative like Very Large Car drivers?
Yes - many factors at work with safety statistics.

I believe that the larger trucks tend to be out in the 'really bad stuff' significantly more than any other type of vehicle and they tend to be a single driver when they are out there (plowing, emergency service, construction , etc). I believe that looking at the separate results for single vehicle accidents vs multi vehicle accidents shows where the trend lies.

So the large variables to these results include: weight/size , driver, application of use - not necessarily in that order.

"The likelihood of crash death varies markedly among these vehicle types according to size. Small/light vehicles have less structure and size to absorb crash energy, so crash forces on occupants will be higher. People in lighter vehicles are at a disadvantage in collisions with heavier vehicles. 1 Pickups and SUVs are proportionally more likely than cars to be in fatal single-vehicle crashes, especially rollovers. However, pickups and SUVs generally are heavier than cars, so occupant deaths in SUVs and pickups are less likely to occur in multiple-vehicle crashes."

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Alexa9
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Re: A vehicle that "sits up" but can't afford CRV

Post by Alexa9 » Mon Jun 18, 2018 12:58 pm

smitcat wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 12:28 pm
Of course many of us have more than one vehicle and choose what we need/want in each one based upon our needs and desires.
"If you don't get much snow, I don't see much reason to get an SUV."
- snow
- towing
- hauling
- many passengers
Right there are good reasons to use an SUV for a small minority, but people did fine without them for years. I know many people that drive SUV's that just want a large vehicle because they can and I think it's such a silly reason and waste of gas. The same goes for Pickups with beds that never get used by men that want to look like cowboys. But I won't turn this into a rant other than that most people would be fine with a sedan.

smitcat
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Re: A vehicle that "sits up" but can't afford CRV

Post by smitcat » Mon Jun 18, 2018 1:04 pm

Alexa9 wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 12:58 pm
smitcat wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 12:28 pm
Of course many of us have more than one vehicle and choose what we need/want in each one based upon our needs and desires.
"If you don't get much snow, I don't see much reason to get an SUV."
- snow
- towing
- hauling
- many passengers
Right there are good reasons to use an SUV for a small minority, but people did fine without them for years. I know many people that drive SUV's that just want a large vehicle because they can and I think it's such a silly reason and waste of gas. The same goes for Pickups with beds that never get used by men that want to look like cowboys. But I won't turn this into a rant other than that most people would be fine with a sedan.
People buy what they want - whether that is a home, car, truck , vacation, food, wine, watches, or whatever.
Rarely is it a matter of what someone minimally needs vs what they actually want.
FWIW - I see no difference with cars/trucks then all the rest.
Hopefully most folks do buy what makes them happy.

SDLinguist
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Re: A vehicle that "sits up" but can afford CRV

Post by SDLinguist » Mon Jun 18, 2018 1:49 pm

sport wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 9:27 am
She might even try a sedan with a power seat. The vertical adjustment is great for shorter drivers.
+1 seat adjustment doesn't even need to be power. Just a seat with vertical adjustment.

I have found the biggest reason people who say they need the seat hight of a cross over don't like sedans is just because they have no clue how to correctly adjust a car seat and set their mirrors so as to have good visibility.

The vast, vast, vast majority of drivers sit way too far back, way too low and way too reclined with their mirrors pointed at their own car. So they buy cross overs for 'better visibility and safety' for $$$ instead of just getting into a correct position.

Not only do the safety features like seatbelts and airbags work better if something does happen, you have better control of the car and better situational awareness.

ClemsonBogle
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Re: A vehicle that "sits up" but can't afford CRV

Post by ClemsonBogle » Mon Jun 18, 2018 4:16 pm

Trying to change someones opinion is impossible.

However try and look at complete costs at the minimum. AKA run a few different insurance scenarios and also take a look at consumer reports for repair costs. A friend of mine bought a 2012 Audi Q5 3.2 for right inline with your budget of 11,000 but the insurance and maintenance are killer.

Your best bet is to fix the devil you know aka her current car (not knowing what year hers is but with only 2K in trade value im going to assume 1st gen).

If she is prior to 2005 then by all means a 2005-2008 model could be had for 7-8K.

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munemaker
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Re: A vehicle that "sits up" but can't afford CRV

Post by munemaker » Tue Jun 19, 2018 8:48 am

KSOC wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 1:11 pm
jlawrence01 wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:25 am
One car that I like to drive that would fit all of the qualifications is the KIA Soul.
+1.
Sits up, great vision, easy in & out, great sound, drives great. Most fun driving car I ever had.
Hamsters love 'em.

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