Two Year Old Leftover Car

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lormor
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Two Year Old Leftover Car

Post by lormor » Mon Jun 11, 2018 3:00 pm

I'm just getting familiar with this learned community and have a car buying question perhaps someone has seen before. Wife & I are car shopping and have settled on the Hyundai Santa Fe Sport 2.0 Turbo as good for us. Curiously, the dealers near me in Southern California seem to have not just 2018s in stock but a fair number of 2017s as well. When we test drove one of the '17s the TPMS light was on showing that all tires were under inflated, which is a sign that the car has been sitting for quite a while. I asked the salesman about whether we could get a better deal on it rather than a 2018 but he kind of waved it off saying, "We say they're 2017-18s, the same model."

He's right that the cars are virtually identical, however Hyundai is pushing the '18s with a $3750 rebate, with no special rebates or financing listed for the '17s. In most cases, the '18s are priced lower than the '17s. Doesn't make much sense to me.

Complicating the matter is that Hyundai is introducing a big redesign for the 2019 model, arriving later this fall, and these '17s and '18s are going to be looking quite long in the tooth.

My thinking is that since there's still so many of these in dealer stock, and they don't want two year old new cars on their new car lot, hyundai must be thinking of providing some kind of extra cash to get rid of them. MSRP on these 2017's is around $37500. I'm wondering if by late July or August they might get down to near the price of a 2017 used model, say $26000? Any thoughts appreciated.

bloom2708
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Re: Two Year Old Leftover Car

Post by bloom2708 » Mon Jun 11, 2018 4:33 pm

Interesting. I would stick with the 2018 unless you can get a pretty crazy good deal on the 2017.

Most likely, the dealer is getting incentives based on the current model year only. The 2017s are not the priority to sell.

It is interesting they they aren't discounted. Do a kbb on a 2017 model with 50 miles and see what private party resale has dropped to. If you drive a 2017 off the lot, it will be worth less immediately compared to the 2018. At least it should be if I was buying.

In my mind, all new cars are sold. I know that to not be true. There has to be a bunch of 2015, 2016, 2017 new cars sitting somewhere. I was in a bigger city this summer and a Mitsubishi dealer had a huge backlot of new 2017s out in a grass field. The weeds were half way up the sides of the new cars. It was kind of sad.
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dratkinson
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Re: Two Year Old Leftover Car

Post by dratkinson » Mon Jun 11, 2018 4:47 pm

If the 2017-2018 safety features are similar, I'd consider the 2017.

What does your insurance company say a 2017 model is worth if totaled as soon as you take it off the lot? I'd want to pay considerably less than that. I'd start by offering 75% of what the insurance company says they'd pay for it totaled. Less is the salesman annoyed me. And you can always vote with your feet.

If no one else wanted the older model, then why should you pay a lot for it?
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dm200
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Re: Two Year Old Leftover Car

Post by dm200 » Mon Jun 11, 2018 5:02 pm

Something I always wondered about is the impact (physical/mechanical - not financial) of a new model car sitting on the dealer lot for many months.

Anyone know?

CurlyDave
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Re: Two Year Old Leftover Car

Post by CurlyDave » Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:31 am

dm200 wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 5:02 pm
Something I always wondered about is the impact (physical/mechanical - not financial) of a new model car sitting on the dealer lot for many months.

Anyone know?
In the world of motorhomes this is known as "lot rot", and cars will have many of the same issues. Tires will deteriorate, the battery will deteriorate, the finish may be effected by the sun, and the interior may be deteriorated by sunlight through the windows. Engine components will age.

Personally, I would want about 20% off per year that a car had sat on a lot. The dealer may not bite on that offer, but cars are one thing where you can get an identical model from another dealer, so there is very little downside to making a lowball offer.

If I offered 20% less and a salesperson tried to talk me up in price, I would offer 5% less thanks my original offer.

AntsOnTheMarch
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Re: Two Year Old Leftover Car

Post by AntsOnTheMarch » Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:21 am

TPMS light being on may mean that one or more wheel sensors are bad.

livesoft
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Re: Two Year Old Leftover Car

Post by livesoft » Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:43 am

Here is the way I read the OP:
"I'm wondering if" everything is negotiable.

Of course everything is negotiable And that's especially true with buying a car. Here is my philosophy: If the sales associate* says it is not negotiable, then it is definitely negotiable.

I just bought a car on Monday. Believe me. Everything is negotiable. If you don't want to pay for a 2017 unless it is 20% less than a 2018, then don't do it. If no one will sell you a 2017 for 20% less at the present time, then that's pretty easy to figure out, too,

*I learned that "associate" was a new term for salesman nowadays.
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AntsOnTheMarch
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Re: Two Year Old Leftover Car

Post by AntsOnTheMarch » Wed Jun 13, 2018 6:34 am

Dealer: No difference between 2017 and 2018.
You: Great! I’ll take the 2018 and you can sell the 2017 to someone else just as easy.

Jesa
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Re: Two Year Old Leftover Car

Post by Jesa » Wed Jun 13, 2018 6:41 am

Just yesterday I closed a deal on a 2017 Ford Focus. Similar situation where the '18's were advertised with great discounts and the '17's not so much. After some back and forth banter and letting the dealer know this is not only a '17, but now a discontinued model we were able to come to a out the door price.

MSRP - $21,100 on an SE model
Out the door price including tax (7%), tag, & title - $12,000

The discounts are there from the manufacturer - they just aren't discussed up front.

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djpeteski
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Re: Two Year Old Leftover Car

Post by djpeteski » Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:21 am

lormor wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 3:00 pm
My thinking is that since there's still so many of these in dealer stock, and they don't want two year old new cars on their new car lot, hyundai must be thinking of providing some kind of extra cash to get rid of them.
You have a fundamental problem here: you are overlaying logic onto the situation. The car dealership and their representatives are only interested in two things: the first is getting you to buy a car, the second is charging you the most amount of money for that car. Most of the time that is best accomplished by emotions rather than logic. They will ignore any of your logical arguments and seek for you and your SO to become emotional.

Of course you are right, in the general sense, that at some point the dealership or Hyundai will discount those older models severely to get them to go away. However, in your case, it does not sound like that time is now. Even if it was the time for big discounts, do not expect them to advertise the fact. The initial write up for the deal will price the car as if it was a 2019.

We found ourselves in a similar situation with a Ford Edge last year. The 2018's were coming out and they had several 2016 sitting on the lot. We informed them we were looking for a deal. The first write up included the full retail for the car, and a bunch of added things like pin stripping for $800. It is all a trick, they would have been happy to sell us the car for full retail if they took off the pin stripping charge.

Luckily I am a pretty good negotiator, but my wife is much better. We went around and around with them, walking out of the dealership twice, but finally got the deal that we wanted. Are you prepared to do that kind of battle to save a few bucks? Is it worth your time? Maybe yes, maybe no.

If you want the deepest discount, sure target the 2016, but come up with a price. I will pay this amount and no more. Most likely you will have to go home without a car the first day you sit to do the deal.

If you want a discount without too much negotiation, then go for the 2017. The rebate helps you out in this manner.

However, consider waiting for the 2019 if you want the latest and greatest and can afford to pay for it.

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Blueskies123
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Re: Two Year Old Leftover Car

Post by Blueskies123 » Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:27 am

If you want a shock, compare they price they are giving to you to the going price for two year old, very low mileage cars for sale on the internet. You will suffer a large amount of depreciation the moment you drive off the lot but if you plan to keep the car for 10 years it does not make a difference. One other point, as more and more cars become electric, semi-self driving, accident sensing and prevention; these older cars will plummet in value.

Jack FFR1846
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Re: Two Year Old Leftover Car

Post by Jack FFR1846 » Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:27 am

It all depends.

With the turn of the model year, car manufacturers and dealers can work in opposite directions at times. Look for a VW as the new model year is already on the lot and they have 50 previous year cars (and most dealers also have tons) and VW gives dealers $6k to get rid of the old model year cars.

On opposite world, a new model year comes out but previous model year cars are in short supply. Bargain hunters sometimes come in with blinders on, focusing on the previous year car which has no factory incentives while the new model year car may have incentives. I've seen this many times and the guy buying the leftover pays more than he could have got the new model year car for.

You really need to look at the individual car. Sometimes the individual model at the specific dealer.

More exotic cars always have older new cars on the showroom floor. Want a new, 3 year old Maserati Quattroporte? I can find you whatever color you want. Need to get that left over Ferrari 458 Italia that's never been bought? They're out there. Aston Martin often creates very limited edition specials that are astronomically expensive compared to the "normal" model. You'll see them at my local dealership from last year and the year before with no discount while a run of the mill Vantage V8 is discounted to increase dealer volume.
Last edited by Jack FFR1846 on Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Jesa
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Re: Two Year Old Leftover Car

Post by Jesa » Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:29 am

djpeteski wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:21 am
lormor wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 3:00 pm
My thinking is that since there's still so many of these in dealer stock, and they don't want two year old new cars on their new car lot, hyundai must be thinking of providing some kind of extra cash to get rid of them.
You have a fundamental problem here: you are overlaying logic onto the situation. The car dealership and their representatives are only interested in two things: the first is getting you to buy a car, the second is charging you the most amount of money for that car. Most of the time that is best accomplished by emotions rather than logic. They will ignore any of your logical arguments and seek for you and your SO to become emotional.

Of course you are right, in the general sense, that at some point the dealership or Hyundai will discount those older models severely to get them to go away. However, in your case, it does not sound like that time is now. Even if it was the time for big discounts, do not expect them to advertise the fact. The initial write up for the deal will price the car as if it was a 2019.

We found ourselves in a similar situation with a Ford Edge last year. The 2018's were coming out and they had several 2016 sitting on the lot. We informed them we were looking for a deal. The first write up included the full retail for the car, and a bunch of added things like pin stripping for $800. It is all a trick, they would have been happy to sell us the car for full retail if they took off the pin stripping charge.

Luckily I am a pretty good negotiator, but my wife is much better. We went around and around with them, walking out of the dealership twice, but finally got the deal that we wanted. Are you prepared to do that kind of battle to save a few bucks? Is it worth your time? Maybe yes, maybe no.

If you want the deepest discount, sure target the 2016, but come up with a price. I will pay this amount and no more. Most likely you will have to go home without a car the first day you sit to do the deal.

If you want a discount without too much negotiation, then go for the 2017. The rebate helps you out in this manner.

However, consider waiting for the 2019 if you want the latest and greatest and can afford to pay for it.
This...

Same situation as I stated above. The discounts are there, you just have to be persistent. My dealer kept going lower and lower until he finally asked how he can earn my business. I said 12k out the door. He said no way. I literally waited 2 hours (all communication done through email) and he hit the 12k out the door.

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djpeteski
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Re: Two Year Old Leftover Car

Post by djpeteski » Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:42 am

Jesa wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:29 am
djpeteski wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:21 am

They will ignore any of your logical arguments and seek for you and your SO to become emotional.
This...

Same situation as I stated above. The discounts are there, you just have to be persistent. My dealer kept going lower and lower until he finally asked how he can earn my business. I said 12k out the door. He said no way. I literally waited 2 hours (all communication done through email) and he hit the 12k out the door.
Very good to do it via email, that was smart.

Ours would not deal via email or the phone; and, and when we did the deal changed when we got there.

At one point the "sales manager" tried to start a fight between my wife and I. He also suggested I wan't a real man because I was letting her do the negotiation. Whatever dude, do we get the price we want or not? That is the only thing that matters.

tibbitts
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Re: Two Year Old Leftover Car

Post by tibbitts » Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:49 am

I tried to buy a leftover once but couldn't get a better price than on a current model. I do wonder what becomes of these cars; someone must know.

bob60014
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Re: Two Year Old Leftover Car

Post by bob60014 » Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:54 am

The dealer is usually paying a loan to have those vehicles sitting on their lot. Mr. Salesman isn't interested in a low ball offer but if the request gets to a manager/owner he/she will certainly listen. Your offer needs to be presented correctly to get it up the chain.

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