Any reasons to not put money down for a Tesla Model 3?

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ThankYouJack
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Any reasons to not put money down for a Tesla Model 3?

Post by ThankYouJack » Fri Jun 01, 2018 8:11 am

I think it could be a good next car for us. We can afford it and don't mind waiting. Their website says the wait for a Standard is 6-12 months but I'm guessing it's longer? We would want something very safe, somewhat nice and fun to drive.

My main hesitation is that having not been in one / driven one, I'm not sure how much we'll like it. I'll probably also prefer a stick shift over electric but would be nice to save on gas on for environmental reasons.

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Re: Any reasons to not put money down for a Tesla Model 3?

Post by iamlucky13 » Fri Jun 01, 2018 8:30 am

It sounds like you don't have a specific time frame in mind. If you're hoping to get one as soon as possible, you'd want to get the deposit down and accept that some prospective buyers who change their mind have had delays getting their refund.

Otherwise, you don't have to put money down now to get one later, and that wait time is going to start shrinking as they get production running smoothly. If you're not sure, just wait. If nothing else, at least wait until they're regularly available at the showrooms so you can actually test drive one.

Also, you might have read there's some sort of braking bug they're working on taking care of. Waiting gives more time for issues like this to be resolved.

Part of the reason I think you'll want to test drive one before ordering is how many controls they've pushed to the touchscreen instead of having dedicated tactile controls. I guess they didn't bother to hire any human factors engineers...

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Re: Any reasons to not put money down for a Tesla Model 3?

Post by Jack FFR1846 » Fri Jun 01, 2018 8:36 am

If you're looking for a stick shift and some sort of electric assist, look at the Honda CR-Z. I found the shifter to be very much in line with a Civic Si......not the rubbery floppy garbage in the regular Civic. It's also got a number of modes including a button that you can push to instantly give you electric assist along with the gas engine. I found the test drive to be quite fun. As a comparison, I also found the Civic Si to be fun and the non Si to be nearly as boring as a Prius. At about 1/3 of the price of an M3, a CR-Z can go quite a ways even if you're paying $10 a gallon for gas and your electricity is 1 cent a kWHr.
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itsgot8
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Re: Any reasons to not put money down for a Tesla Model 3?

Post by itsgot8 » Fri Jun 01, 2018 8:38 am

ThankYouJack wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 8:11 am
I'll probably also prefer a stick shift over electric but would be nice to save on gas on for environmental reasons.
Where do you think the electricity comes from to charge it?

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munemaker
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Re: Any reasons to not put money down for a Tesla Model 3?

Post by munemaker » Fri Jun 01, 2018 8:42 am

There are 20 pages of discussion by members who put money down on a Tesla Model 3 debating whether they should accept delivery of the vehicle or get a refund. You might start by reading that.
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=227143

Glockenspiel
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Re: Any reasons to not put money down for a Tesla Model 3?

Post by Glockenspiel » Fri Jun 01, 2018 8:50 am

itsgot8 wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 8:38 am
ThankYouJack wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 8:11 am
I'll probably also prefer a stick shift over electric but would be nice to save on gas on for environmental reasons.
Where do you think the electricity comes from to charge it?
Nearly 20% from renewable sources and only increasing in the future.

ThankYouJack
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Re: Any reasons to not put money down for a Tesla Model 3?

Post by ThankYouJack » Fri Jun 01, 2018 8:54 am

munemaker wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 8:42 am
There are 20 pages of discussion by members who put money down on a Tesla Model 3 debating whether they should accept delivery of the vehicle or get a refund. You might start by reading that.
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=227143
I read through a lot of it. Seems almost like Apple, where Tesla owners really like them, while non-owners pick out the problems and think they're overrated.

ThankYouJack
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Re: Any reasons to not put money down for a Tesla Model 3?

Post by ThankYouJack » Fri Jun 01, 2018 8:56 am

iamlucky13 wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 8:30 am
It sounds like you don't have a specific time frame in mind. If you're hoping to get one as soon as possible, you'd want to get the deposit down and accept that some prospective buyers who change their mind have had delays getting their refund.

Otherwise, you don't have to put money down now to get one later, and that wait time is going to start shrinking as they get production running smoothly. If you're not sure, just wait. If nothing else, at least wait until they're regularly available at the showrooms so you can actually test drive one.

Also, you might have read there's some sort of braking bug they're working on taking care of. Waiting gives more time for issues like this to be resolved.

Part of the reason I think you'll want to test drive one before ordering is how many controls they've pushed to the touchscreen instead of having dedicated tactile controls. I guess they didn't bother to hire any human factors engineers...
That makes sense and is the practical thing to do. I'm sure I would like the car but not sure if I'd love it. And other cars may be coming out that I find more appealing.

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Re: Any reasons to not put money down for a Tesla Model 3?

Post by ThankYouJack » Fri Jun 01, 2018 8:58 am

Jack FFR1846 wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 8:36 am
If you're looking for a stick shift and some sort of electric assist, look at the Honda CR-Z. I found the shifter to be very much in line with a Civic Si......not the rubbery floppy garbage in the regular Civic. It's also got a number of modes including a button that you can push to instantly give you electric assist along with the gas engine. I found the test drive to be quite fun. As a comparison, I also found the Civic Si to be fun and the non Si to be nearly as boring as a Prius. At about 1/3 of the price of an M3, a CR-Z can go quite a ways even if you're paying $10 a gallon for gas and your electricity is 1 cent a kWHr.
Looks like it could be a good option, but I would want a 4 door because my kids will be riding in the car a decent amount.

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matjen
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Re: Any reasons to not put money down for a Tesla Model 3?

Post by matjen » Fri Jun 01, 2018 8:58 am

Well here is an excellent reason not to put money down on a Model 3. An absolutely horrid, scathing review of its build quality, quality control, etc. The Model S is already the most expensive car to insure in the US. The Model 3 will likely be similar and is not made to the standards of other manufacturers. A long term review like this is the only way to really ascertain these things. Almost all other reviews are just for a few days.

https://www.edmunds.com/tesla/model-3/2 ... -2018.html
We did local commuting and a few freeway journeys, sure, but everywhere we went the car was fraught with problems. Sixteen weeks into ownership, we've had so many issues with our Model 3 that we started a shared Google Doc to catalog various warning messages, necessary screen resets and general failures.
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Re: Any reasons to not put money down for a Tesla Model 3?

Post by letsgobobby » Fri Jun 01, 2018 9:14 am

itsgot8 wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 8:38 am
ThankYouJack wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 8:11 am
I'll probably also prefer a stick shift over electric but would be nice to save on gas on for environmental reasons.
Where do you think the electricity comes from to charge it?
Our PUD is 76% hydro and the rest from Nat gas. But we meet all our electric needs from solar so even that 76% would be overstating the environmental impact.

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Re: Any reasons to not put money down for a Tesla Model 3?

Post by BrandonBogle » Fri Jun 01, 2018 10:11 am

matjen wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 8:58 am
Well here is an excellent reason not to put money down on a Model 3. An absolutely horrid, scathing review of its build quality, quality control, etc. The Model S is already the most expensive car to insure in the US. The Model 3 will likely be similar and is not made to the standards of other manufacturers. A long term review like this is the only way to really ascertain these things. Almost all other reviews are just for a few days.

https://www.edmunds.com/tesla/model-3/2 ... -2018.html
We did local commuting and a few freeway journeys, sure, but everywhere we went the car was fraught with problems. Sixteen weeks into ownership, we've had so many issues with our Model 3 that we started a shared Google Doc to catalog various warning messages, necessary screen resets and general failures.
While one should always take into all various details and figure out what is right for them, especially for insurance, do keep in mind that your mileage may vary greatly for insurance. I am insured with Progressive for $250k/$500k/$250k with uninsured/underinsured, $500 deductible, all the perks and whistles, for $434.53 for 6 months. My prior 6 months was $419.51 and continuing to go back further they were in the upper $300s since first signing up about 2.5 years ago at $354.60. And this is a Model S that now has 72k miles on it. Yeah, I've had to get some things fixed, but the only cost has been a second set of tires, some retrofit upgrades I had them put in, wipers and air filters. My experience may vary from others, but I have thankfully had a great vehicle that even when it had issues, Tesla brought me another vehicle and took my car or I drove in and got a loaner. So while my car isn't perfect (whose is?) and I spent $60k on it, it isn't as bad as Edmunds has had with their Model 3.

ThankYouJack
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Re: Any reasons to not put money down for a Tesla Model 3?

Post by ThankYouJack » Fri Jun 01, 2018 10:39 am

matjen wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 8:58 am
Well here is an excellent reason not to put money down on a Model 3. An absolutely horrid, scathing review of its build quality, quality control, etc. The Model S is already the most expensive car to insure in the US. The Model 3 will likely be similar and is not made to the standards of other manufacturers. A long term review like this is the only way to really ascertain these things. Almost all other reviews are just for a few days.

https://www.edmunds.com/tesla/model-3/2 ... -2018.html
We did local commuting and a few freeway journeys, sure, but everywhere we went the car was fraught with problems. Sixteen weeks into ownership, we've had so many issues with our Model 3 that we started a shared Google Doc to catalog various warning messages, necessary screen resets and general failures.
Thanks. Will be interesting to see what JD Power and Consumer reports rate it. I'm also interested in the crash test scores which I believe aren't out yet.

Since I'm not in a rush and not sure I'd love the car, I figure it's better to wait, test drive one at some point and get more feedback in terms of reliability and consumer reviews.

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Re: Any reasons to not put money down for a Tesla Model 3?

Post by dsmclone » Fri Jun 01, 2018 10:50 am

I just think it's too early to buy the model 3. For the same price, you have so many amazing options without all the compromises like poor interior, poor build quality, range anxiety, high insurance, etc. If it was $35k loaded, that may be a different story but you're going to pay at least $50k for a decent equipped one and I can think of a lot better options in that price range. But if it's worth it to you to be green, go for it. If I really wanted to be green but still have fun, I would buy a used Nissan Leaf for $10k use it as a daily driver and then buy a fun $30k sports car. I do think there are some comparisons to the iphone but at least with the iphone you know you're overpaying but you're getting one of the best phones on the market.

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Re: Any reasons to not put money down for a Tesla Model 3?

Post by niceguy7376 » Fri Jun 01, 2018 10:51 am

ThankYouJack wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 8:11 am
I'll probably also prefer a stick shift over electric but would be nice to save on gas on for environmental reasons.
Is there a stick shift aka manual option in any electric cars on the road? I am a novice asking this question.

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Re: Any reasons to not put money down for a Tesla Model 3?

Post by TravelGeek » Fri Jun 01, 2018 10:54 am

ThankYouJack wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 8:11 am
Their website says the wait for a Standard is 6-12 months but I'm guessing it's longer? We would want something very safe, somewhat nice and fun to drive.
I just canceled my reservation last night because we decided a few weeks ago that the 2018 Nissan LEAF was the right vehicle for us at this time.

My reservation was made on April 1, 2016, and the estimated delivery times for me (west coast, not CA, not employee or previous customer) were as of last night:

“First Production” (310 mi range, Premium Upgrades) - May-July 2018
“Dual Motor AWD” - Late 2018
“Standard Battery” - Early 2019

We were interested in the standard battery $35k model.

ThankYouJack
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Re: Any reasons to not put money down for a Tesla Model 3?

Post by ThankYouJack » Fri Jun 01, 2018 10:57 am

niceguy7376 wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 10:51 am
ThankYouJack wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 8:11 am
I'll probably also prefer a stick shift over electric but would be nice to save on gas on for environmental reasons.
Is there a stick shift aka manual option in any electric cars on the road? I am a novice asking this question.
I think they have a single speed transmission.

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Re: Any reasons to not put money down for a Tesla Model 3?

Post by jdb » Fri Jun 01, 2018 3:48 pm

ThankYouJack wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 10:57 am
niceguy7376 wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 10:51 am
ThankYouJack wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 8:11 am
I'll probably also prefer a stick shift over electric but would be nice to save on gas on for environmental reasons.
Is there a stick shift aka manual option in any electric cars on the road? I am a novice asking this question.
I think they have a single speed transmission.
Tesla has a single speed gearbox. Instant torque when press accelerator. I loved my manual transmission cars for years before had to drive in rush hour traffic and my left leg got tired of pushing clutch every 10 seconds. The Tesla is as close as you can get to manual transmission acceleration experience. Actually even better since no one second delay. And the regenerative braking is like downshifting to get braking. One of reasons we love our Model S and Model X and ordered Model 3 for adult sons, one of which is being built. Good luck.
Last edited by jdb on Fri Jun 01, 2018 3:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ssquared87
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Re: Any reasons to not put money down for a Tesla Model 3?

Post by ssquared87 » Fri Jun 01, 2018 3:55 pm

The seats are terrible.

I had a deposit on one but had to replace my old car sooner than expected so I cancelled the order. Took Tesla forever to give my deposit back.

When I finally got a chance to sit in the model 3, the seats were awful. Model S has far more comfortable seats and I’d be willing to pay extra just for that.

The interior of the model 3 is also quite bland cd the model s.

Go to a Tesla showroom and check it out before you part with your money.

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Re: Any reasons to not put money down for a Tesla Model 3?

Post by neilpilot » Fri Jun 01, 2018 4:03 pm

ssquared87 wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 3:55 pm
......

I had a deposit on one but had to replace my old car sooner than expected so I cancelled the order. Took Tesla forever to give my deposit back.

.....
I also asked for my deposit back since I didn't want to wait until next year. My deposit was back in my checking via ACH in 24 hours.

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Re: Any reasons to not put money down for a Tesla Model 3?

Post by dustinst22 » Fri Jun 01, 2018 8:41 pm

I decided against it and got my deposit back. Electric car technology is in the very early stages, I'd rather not be the guinea pig to test it out with my money. It's sort of like buying the first iphone but spending 45 grand on it instead of a few hundred bucks. Pretty sure I'd have buyers remorse after seeing the improvements that will come out very quickly in terms of range, build quality, and competitor products (even a family member who works at the gigafactory suggested the tech is going to improve a ton very fast). Once it's a mature marketplace I'll purchase.

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Re: Any reasons to not put money down for a Tesla Model 3?

Post by TravelGeek » Fri Jun 01, 2018 11:08 pm

neilpilot wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 4:03 pm
ssquared87 wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 3:55 pm
......

I had a deposit on one but had to replace my old car sooner than expected so I cancelled the order. Took Tesla forever to give my deposit back.

.....
I also asked for my deposit back since I didn't want to wait until next year. My deposit was back in my checking via ACH in 24 hours.
That was my experience as well.

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Re: Any reasons to not put money down for a Tesla Model 3?

Post by magneto » Sat Jun 02, 2018 4:43 am

With any car purchase, prefer to buy towards the end of a production run, rather than towards the beginning.
More info then available.
Not trendy though 8-)
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Re: Any reasons to not put money down for a Tesla Model 3?

Post by Longdog » Sat Jun 02, 2018 5:42 am

Right now Tesla Model 3 buyers are in the “early adopters” phase of technology adaptation. These people are not the very first to try new technology but are sooner than the vast majority of people. They are willing to take some risk and are tolerant of some hiccoughs in the technology, and in exchange gain some satisfaction at getting it before most others because they believe in the future of the technology. I believe the next year or so will be make or break for Tesla, and as goes Tesla, goes EV development by other manufacturers.

So, I think whether this is right for you depends where you are in the technology adaptation phase. Consumer Reports now has the Tesla Model 3 as a recommended car. That changed in the past few days after Tesla addressed a braking issue identified by CR via an over the air software update.
Steve

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matjen
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Re: Any reasons to not put money down for a Tesla Model 3?

Post by matjen » Sat Jun 02, 2018 8:04 am

Longdog wrote:
Sat Jun 02, 2018 5:42 am
I believe the next year or so will be make or break for Tesla, and as goes Tesla, goes EV development by other manufacturers.
Nah. Musk deserves all the credit in the world for basically dragging the (urban) consumer's taste toward electric and showing there is demand but the other manufacturers are all scrambling to fill the void. They all have announced big plans in the area and real cars are coming very shortly. That is one of the reasons why I would recommend against committing to the Model 3.

You have the Jaguar I-Pace coming in a few weeks/months. The Audi E-Tron Quattro in Q4, the Mercedes EQC and Porsche Mission E next year. Not to mention the various BMW cars, the Bolt, and various Asian lower price entrants coming out or already rapidly improving like the Nissan Leaf.

https://www.jaguarusa.com/all-models/i-pace/index.html

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new- ... or-mirrors

https://www.porsche.com/usa/aboutporsch ... article01/
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Iorek
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Re: Any reasons to not put money down for a Tesla Model 3?

Post by Iorek » Sat Jun 02, 2018 8:11 am

You should go test drive a Chevy Bolt-- that is an affordable well-built EV with 200+ mile range you can actually test drive (see Motor Trend's verdict after a year here http://www.motortrend.com/cars/chevrole ... m-verdict/)

If you need a bit less range you could look at a Leaf or wait for the new model.

EVs are tremendously fun to drive.

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Re: Any reasons to not put money down for a Tesla Model 3?

Post by Valuethinker » Sat Jun 02, 2018 9:54 am

itsgot8 wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 8:38 am
ThankYouJack wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 8:11 am
I'll probably also prefer a stick shift over electric but would be nice to save on gas on for environmental reasons.
Where do you think the electricity comes from to charge it?
As you can imagine a number of third parties have looked into this one -- it's been debated to death.

If you live in the US Midwest or parts of the South, and your utility is c. 80% generation coal fired, then it's still cleaner than an Internal Combustion Engine car. Because electric motors are 80%+ efficient in turning battery charge into motive power, but ICE engines are c. 25% efficient. So even giving battery loss, you still come out ahead.

Roughly speaking, burning oil is 70% of the emissions of burning coal (depends on your pollutant) although ICE pollution controls are excellent. You still get some NOX, PM 10 and PM 2.5. And there is a supply chain getting crude oil from some well in Venezuela or Nigeria to your gas pump as refined gasoline- -that also burns energy.

Now if you happen to live in parts of the USA where the electricity is on average generated by cleaner means-- i.e. basically all the rest of the USA, then the table tips even more sharply towards Electric Vehicles.

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Re: Any reasons to not put money down for a Tesla Model 3?

Post by Valuethinker » Sat Jun 02, 2018 9:55 am

dustinst22 wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 8:41 pm
I decided against it and got my deposit back. Electric car technology is in the very early stages, I'd rather not be the guinea pig to test it out with my money. It's sort of like buying the first iphone but spending 45 grand on it instead of a few hundred bucks. Pretty sure I'd have buyers remorse after seeing the improvements that will come out very quickly in terms of range, build quality, and competitor products (even a family member who works at the gigafactory suggested the tech is going to improve a ton very fast). Once it's a mature marketplace I'll purchase.
It's definitely worth considering leasing over buying. The technology is moving very fast (for a car technology).

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Re: Any reasons to not put money down for a Tesla Model 3?

Post by dustinst22 » Sat Jun 02, 2018 11:22 am

Valuethinker wrote:
Sat Jun 02, 2018 9:55 am


It's definitely worth considering leasing over buying. The technology is moving very fast (for a car technology).
This is a good point. I also considered this, but of course you lose out on the tax credit which is not to be taken lightly.

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Re: Any reasons to not put money down for a Tesla Model 3?

Post by TravelGeek » Sat Jun 02, 2018 11:35 am

dustinst22 wrote:
Sat Jun 02, 2018 11:22 am
This is a good point. I also considered this, but of course you lose out on the tax credit which is not to be taken lightly.
I don’t think there are Model 3 leases available from Tesla.

If we are looking at EVs in general, I think it depends on the leasing deal. Nissan was known to pass the $7500 tax credit through as a rebate in leases (also helpful if you don’t actually pay enough taxes to use the credit) while GM was known to pocket it. I think Nissan has changed its approach recently.

State specific rebates and credits may apply to leases as well. E.g. the new OR $2500 EV rebate.

http://www.oregon.gov/deq/aq/programs/P ... ebate.aspx

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Re: Any reasons to not put money down for a Tesla Model 3?

Post by dustinst22 » Sat Jun 02, 2018 3:35 pm

My business partner leased his Tesla model S under our business, but from what I can recall we couldn't get the rebate. This was a few years ago though so maybe the rules have changed.

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Re: Any reasons to not put money down for a Tesla Model 3?

Post by drk » Sat Jun 02, 2018 4:12 pm

ThankYouJack wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 8:11 am
I think it could be a good next car for us. We can afford it and don't mind waiting. Their website says the wait for a Standard is 6-12 months but I'm guessing it's longer? We would want something very safe, somewhat nice and fun to drive.

My main hesitation is that having not been in one / driven one, I'm not sure how much we'll like it. I'll probably also prefer a stick shift over electric but would be nice to save on gas on for environmental reasons.
At this point, I would be very concerned about making an unsecured loan to Tesla in the form of a deposit for a Model 3. It's not as though its cash-flow and debt issues are a secret. I also see little upside to putting down the money, so the risk/reward relationship is way out of whack.

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Re: Any reasons to not put money down for a Tesla Model 3?

Post by PhilosophyAndrew » Sat Jun 02, 2018 7:19 pm

Are there any reasons not to put down a deposit? Of course! The company may fail, the car might be unreliable or poorly-made, when you are able to purchase it, the car may not meet your family’s need or when you other companies may make better electric cars, and so on. There are always reasons not to act.

The more important questions, I think, are what are the specific reasons you want to do this to do this, and do those reasons still seem sufficient after reviewing all the reasons to fear and doubt the wisdom of this purchase
others have raised.

Your individual needs (and preferences and values and financial situation) should surely dominate your decision -making. If, however, you want one more response from a fellow Boglehead, here’s one: My wife just purchased a Model 3 and, so far, she loves it.

My question for you is what are the specific reasons you you want to make this purchase?

Andy.

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Re: Any reasons to not put money down for a Tesla Model 3?

Post by PhilosophyAndrew » Sat Jun 02, 2018 7:25 pm

iamlucky13 wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 8:30 am
Part of the reason I think you'll want to test drive one before ordering is how many controls they've pushed to the touchscreen instead of having dedicated tactile controls. I guess they didn't bother to hire any human factors engineers...
My wife and I both found the controls easy to use. They are different from other cars, but were clearly engineered with some care.

The controls may not work well for everyone, but I would surprised how easy it was to get used to them. I agree that taking a long test drive would be prudent.

Andy.

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Re: Any reasons to not put money down for a Tesla Model 3?

Post by PhilosophyAndrew » Sat Jun 02, 2018 7:32 pm

ssquared87 wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 3:55 pm
The interior of the model 3 is also quite bland cd the model s.
This is obviously a subjective aesthetic judgment. I think the interior of the Model 3 is the best of all three Tesla models and the interior of the Model S the worst (to me, it looks cheap). I didn’t know if I would like the monimalist aesthetics of my wife’s Model 3, but I do.

To my eye, however, none of the Tesla interiors match the beauty of my Mercedes W213. I considered purchasing a Model S, but liked the Mercedes’ interior and seat comfort much better. The torque of the Model S is amazing!

Andy.
Last edited by PhilosophyAndrew on Sat Jun 02, 2018 7:48 pm, edited 2 times in total.

TravelGeek
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Re: Any reasons to not put money down for a Tesla Model 3?

Post by TravelGeek » Sat Jun 02, 2018 7:34 pm

dustinst22 wrote:
Sat Jun 02, 2018 3:35 pm
My business partner leased his Tesla model S under our business, but from what I can recall we couldn't get the rebate. This was a few years ago though so maybe the rules have changed.
The lessor gets the federal tax credit. You can’t claim it on your tax return for a leased vehicle. Whether they pocket it quietly or factor it into a reduced cost for the lessee is the question.

Eg https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads ... dit.98574/

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Re: Any reasons to not put money down for a Tesla Model 3?

Post by Big Dog » Sat Jun 02, 2018 8:11 pm

My wife and I both found the controls easy to use. They are different from other cars, but were clearly engineered with some care.

The controls may not work well for everyone, but I would surprised how easy it was to get used to them.
Ditto. I was actually surprised that my wife "really likes driving" that car. I thought for sure that the different control system would scare her off, but just the opposite.

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Re: Any reasons to not put money down for a Tesla Model 3?

Post by PhilosophyAndrew » Sat Jun 02, 2018 8:25 pm

Big Dog wrote:
Sat Jun 02, 2018 8:11 pm
My wife and I both found the controls easy to use. They are different from other cars, but were clearly engineered with some care.

The controls may not work well for everyone, but I would surprised how easy it was to get used to them.
Ditto. I was actually surprised that my wife "really likes driving" that car. I thought for sure that the different control system would scare her off, but just the opposite.
The car is a blast to drive, and I’m so glad that my wife splurged on a fun car for herself after decades driving a Ford Taurus or Toyota Prous. She is normally extremely prudent financially — even abstemious — but she loved the look of the Tesla Model S the first time she saw it and deposited on the Model 3 the first day that was possible.

I imagine we’ll get the federal tax credit, and the dealer let us know about a $3,000 state excise tax credit. Since my wife didn’t want the autopilot software, we didntbosy for thst. That makes the net cost of her configuration around $44,0000. Well worth it to make her happy!

Andy.

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Re: Any reasons to not put money down for a Tesla Model 3?

Post by TravelGeek » Sat Jun 02, 2018 8:27 pm

Big Dog wrote:
Sat Jun 02, 2018 8:11 pm

Ditto. I was actually surprised that my wife "really likes driving" that car. I thought for sure that the different control system would scare her off, but just the opposite.
One interesting side effect is that Tesla could improve some of the user experience with a simple software update. Could also be a negative if you have gotten used to a certain UI and it suddenly gets changed (do they have opt-in controls)?

I have often wondered why, for example, the designers of the Prius 2010 user interface found it necessary to add three physical buttons to change to clock (hour, min, reset to zero). I used those buttons twice a year to adjust for Daylight Saving Time changes. Physical buttons seem like a waste of real estate and unnecessary complexity. The car has a touch screen display; why not put that in a settings page somewhere. I think in the 4th generation models that is what has happened now.

But on the other hand I don’t quite understand why Tesla found it necessary to replace the physical glove box locking mechanism with an electronic one accessible via te touch screen. Maybe to keep valets from rifling through it, but I don’t use valets and keep nothing of value in my glove box, so it just is an unnecessary complexity and potential cause for problems for me. That they can’t really change via software.

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Re: Any reasons to not put money down for a Tesla Model 3?

Post by ThankYouJack » Sat Jun 02, 2018 8:32 pm

PhilosophyAndrew wrote:
Sat Jun 02, 2018 7:19 pm

My question for you is what are the specific reasons you you want to make this purchase?
I think it would be a nice, fun and safe car to own. I wasn't really overanalyzing things by only putting down a $1,000 refundable deposit. But after the post, I've decided to wait.

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Re: Any reasons to not put money down for a Tesla Model 3?

Post by ssquared87 » Sun Jun 03, 2018 12:20 am

PhilosophyAndrew wrote:
Sat Jun 02, 2018 7:32 pm
ssquared87 wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 3:55 pm
The interior of the model 3 is also quite bland cd the model s.
This is obviously a subjective aesthetic judgment. I think the interior of the Model 3 is the best of all three Tesla models and the interior of the Model S the worst (to me, it looks cheap). I didn’t know if I would like the monimalist aesthetics of my wife’s Model 3, but I do.

To my eye, however, none of the Tesla interiors match the beauty of my Mercedes W213. I considered purchasing a Model S, but liked the Mercedes’ interior and seat comfort much better. The torque of the Model S is amazing!

Andy.
Agreed, the model S does use low quality materials and the build quality is lacking.

Funny you mention the W213, that was a strong contender for me as well but I ended up going with the BMW G30 5 series because it’s a bit more agile than the non AMG versions of the W213, but it was a close call, love the design of the e class interior

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Re: Any reasons to not put money down for a Tesla Model 3?

Post by TomatoTomahto » Sun Jun 03, 2018 5:22 am

Glockenspiel wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 8:50 am
itsgot8 wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 8:38 am
ThankYouJack wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 8:11 am
I'll probably also prefer a stick shift over electric but would be nice to save on gas on for environmental reasons.
Where do you think the electricity comes from to charge it?
Nearly 20% from renewable sources and only increasing in the future.
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Re: Any reasons to not put money down for a Tesla Model 3?

Post by matjen » Sun Jun 03, 2018 8:26 am

Valuethinker wrote:
Sat Jun 02, 2018 9:55 am

It's definitely worth considering leasing over buying. The technology is moving very fast (for a car technology).
100% agree (though I did buy my used BMW i3 after a 60% depreciation or so). Elon Musk just answered the leasing question negatively via Twitter of course.
Leasing negatively effects Tesla cash flow, so we prob won’t offer Model 3 leases for 6 to 9 months. Loan financing is a better deal anyway, as bank conservatism for new car models is v conservative about residual value, but Teslas have always had strong residual value.
This company's finances are in dire straits IMO.
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Re: Any reasons to not put money down for a Tesla Model 3?

Post by PhilosophyAndrew » Sun Jun 03, 2018 9:22 am

matjen wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 8:26 am

This company's finances are in dire straits IMO.
Possibly, but the decision to delay leasing makes good sense: The company needs cash to finance the huge backlog of orders, and demand is strong enough that they can se all they produce to cash customers.

If the company is able to fulfill existing orders without going bankrupt, I imagine there will come a time when they will offer leases.

I don’t know enough about the company’s finance to know how strong or weak their prospects are. Conpant faikute was one of the risks my wife assumed when she bought her Model 3.

Andy.

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Re: Any reasons to not put money down for a Tesla Model 3?

Post by itsgot8 » Fri Jun 08, 2018 7:45 am

Valuethinker wrote:
Sat Jun 02, 2018 9:54 am
itsgot8 wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 8:38 am
ThankYouJack wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 8:11 am
I'll probably also prefer a stick shift over electric but would be nice to save on gas on for environmental reasons.
Where do you think the electricity comes from to charge it?
As you can imagine a number of third parties have looked into this one -- it's been debated to death.

If you live in the US Midwest or parts of the South, and your utility is c. 80% generation coal fired, then it's still cleaner than an Internal Combustion Engine car. Because electric motors are 80%+ efficient in turning battery charge into motive power, but ICE engines are c. 25% efficient. So even giving battery loss, you still come out ahead.

Roughly speaking, burning oil is 70% of the emissions of burning coal (depends on your pollutant) although ICE pollution controls are excellent. You still get some NOX, PM 10 and PM 2.5. And there is a supply chain getting crude oil from some well in Venezuela or Nigeria to your gas pump as refined gasoline- -that also burns energy.

Now if you happen to live in parts of the USA where the electricity is on average generated by cleaner means-- i.e. basically all the rest of the USA, then the table tips even more sharply towards Electric Vehicles.
How do you figure? Looks like ~60% of generation comes from fossil fuels and ~20% from nuclear. Of course, I'm assuming when you state "cleaner means" you are talking about renewable energy sources like wind, solar and hydro which largely make up the remaining ~20%. If you include natural gas as part of that, then I better comprehend your stance.

https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=427&t=3

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrici ... ted_States


Also, bravo to those who are actually considering the total system and using renewable power generation as a means of powering their homes. It's good to see people be cognizant of the big picture and not just buying an EV thinking they are environment 'do-gooders' and ignore the rest.

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Re: Any reasons to not put money down for a Tesla Model 3?

Post by Jack FFR1846 » Fri Jun 08, 2018 7:52 am

niceguy7376 wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 10:51 am
ThankYouJack wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 8:11 am
I'll probably also prefer a stick shift over electric but would be nice to save on gas on for environmental reasons.
Is there a stick shift aka manual option in any electric cars on the road? I am a novice asking this question.
Not on current production, but Solectria converted small cars to electric back in the 80's and I remember one of the engineers there had a small pickup that was converted to electric and had the factory manual transmission. They were manufactured outside of Boston. The company was later sold and now make truck hybrid conversions (over the road big trucks) for the last 10 years or so.
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Re: Any reasons to not put money down for a Tesla Model 3?

Post by CaliJim » Wed Sep 12, 2018 11:13 pm

I just want to resurrect this thread for a moment to say one thing:

I LOVE our new Tesla Model 3.

It is the best car I have ever owned. ever. hands down. I had a bmw 740i for a while. That had been the 'nicest car', but no longer. BMWs don't hold a candle to this car. Fun to drive. Rock solid, impeccable, precise on the road. Perfect size. Great performance/acceleration/breaking. Drove it up from the coast into the high sierras last weekend. No bogging down at elevation. Eats up the twisty roads. With 310 miles of range... no issues... no range anxiety. Supercharging is QUICK. Got a full charge while stopping for lunch at Anderson's Split Pea Soup. Recharged it up again while hiking via a 15ampx110v outlet at the destination. Now I need to join the 99-11 foundation, if you now what I mean.
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Re: Any reasons to not put money down for a Tesla Model 3?

Post by FoolStreet » Thu Sep 13, 2018 8:13 am

CaliJim wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 11:13 pm
I just want to resurrect this thread for a moment to say one thing:

I LOVE our new Tesla Model 3.

It is the best car I have ever owned. ever. hands down. I had a bmw 740i for a while. That had been the 'nicest car', but no longer. BMWs don't hold a candle to this car. Fun to drive. Rock solid, impeccable, precise on the road. Perfect size. Great performance/acceleration/breaking. Drove it up from the coast into the high sierras last weekend. No bogging down at elevation. Eats up the twisty roads. With 310 miles of range... no issues... no range anxiety. Supercharging is QUICK. Got a full charge while stopping for lunch at Anderson's Split Pea Soup. Recharged it up again while hiking via a 15ampx110v outlet at the destination. Now I need to join the 99-11 foundation, if you now what I mean.
So glad to hear! I want one so bad and can easily afford it, but my frugal side is making me tread too slowly. I have to order today if I want silver. But I really need my wife to testdrive it first. I have considered renting one from Turo for her for the day, but it seems complicated. What to do...

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Re: Any reasons to not put money down for a Tesla Model 3?

Post by TravelGeek » Thu Sep 13, 2018 8:50 am

I was at a local Nation Drive Electric Week event yesterday to demo our Nissan LEAF and talk with fellow EV owners and other folks interested in EVs.

There were a few Model 3 owners and a few with orders scheduled to be fulfilled in the next few months. One owner had brought his vehicle for people to look at. Overall the Model 3 owners seemed very happy with their purchasing decision.

There are hundreds of local Drive Electric events this week; might be of interest to some here.

https://driveelectricweek.org
FoolStreet wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 8:13 am
But I really need my wife to testdrive it first. I have considered renting one from Turo for her for the day, but it seems complicated. What to do...

FoolStreet - perhaps there is a local event for you/your wife to attend. Some owners offered test drives.

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Re: Any reasons to not put money down for a Tesla Model 3?

Post by NJdad6 » Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:50 am

Seems to be mixed reviews. Buyers also have to understand what they are getting into regarding driving range and recharging capabilities.

That aside, a friend of mine just got one and he loves it. Much more than his 911 convertible (which he is now selling).

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