When did this start?? [Restaurant tipping on total bill]

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tennisplyr
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When did this start?? [Restaurant tipping on total bill]

Post by tennisplyr » Fri May 25, 2018 6:48 am

I went to dinner last night and noticed something on the bill. Where the restaurant indicated suggested tipping on the bottom (20%, 18%, 15%), the tip is based on TOTAL bill including taxes. I've never tipped on the taxed amount, just the food and drink. Thoughts?
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AlohaJoe
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Re: When did this start??

Post by AlohaJoe » Fri May 25, 2018 6:54 am

tennisplyr wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 6:48 am
I went to dinner last night and noticed something on the bill. Where the restaurant indicated suggested tipping on the bottom (20%, 18%, 15%), the tip is based on TOTAL bill including taxes. I've never tipped on the taxed amount, just the food and drink. Thoughts?
It's been happening for many years. A google shows articles going back at least 8 years talking about restaurants doing it.

DragonJoey3
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Re: When did this start??

Post by DragonJoey3 » Fri May 25, 2018 6:57 am

I'm in the top 10% of income earners in the wealthiest country on the planet, and usually the person serving me food is working a crap job just to make ends meet and making less in tips in a day than I make in an hour. So I've always adopted the Dave Ramsey philosophy of being "Outrageously generous" with my tipping. My wife worked as a waitress for a while, and her family has been in the restaurant industry, so that might also be a reason that I feel compelled to give more.

My usual tip is 20-25% of the total, or $10 whichever is more. I recall the shock on managers face once at a particularly cheap diner we ate at when the tip exceeded the cost of the food. Giving away a small portion of our riches to make some poor waiter/waitresses day is fun. I guess I'm saying: "I don't worry if I'm tipping on taxes, the tip money is going to someone who is slaving away shuttling food to my table because I'm too lazy to go somewhere where I get it myself. Let the poor waiters have some money."

Obviously you tip whatever you're comfortable, but that's my perspective, and when viewed through the lens of "That waiter/waitress didn't take that job because they love waiting tables." I think it can give a different outlook on tips.

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simplesimon
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Re: When did this start??

Post by simplesimon » Fri May 25, 2018 7:11 am

I haven't paid that close attention - typically tip 20% of the pre-tax bill. I agree with the above poster that tipping is one of my ways of redistributing wealth.

Not to hijack the thread, but on a related note I experienced tip fraud for the first time last week. I left an $8 cash tip on a $35 tab so I left the tip line blank (I usually mark a line through it), wrote down the total, and signed the receipt. A few days later I see a credit card charge for exactly $5.00 more than what I signed for. I disputed the $5 difference with the credit card company online and they gave me a credit on the spot. I haven't decided yet if its worth calling the restaurant and pointing out what happened. I'm curious to see what this receipt looks like...anybody think they would still have it?

Bacchus01
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Re: When did this start??

Post by Bacchus01 » Fri May 25, 2018 7:15 am

DragonJoey3 wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 6:57 am
I'm in the top 10% of income earners in the wealthiest country on the planet, and usually the person serving me food is working a crap job just to make ends meet and making less in tips in a day than I make in an hour. So I've always adopted the Dave Ramsey philosophy of being "Outrageously generous" with my tipping. My wife worked as a waitress for a while, and her family has been in the restaurant industry, so that might also be a reason that I feel compelled to give more.

My usual tip is 20-25% of the total, or $10 whichever is more. I recall the shock on managers face once at a particularly cheap diner we ate at when the tip exceeded the cost of the food. Giving away a small portion of our riches to make some poor waiter/waitresses day is fun. I guess I'm saying: "I don't worry if I'm tipping on taxes, the tip money is going to someone who is slaving away shuttling food to my table because I'm too lazy to go somewhere where I get it myself. Let the poor waiters have some money."

Obviously you tip whatever you're comfortable, but that's my perspective, and when viewed through the lens of "That waiter/waitress didn't take that job because they love waiting tables." I think it can give a different outlook on tips.
You are making an enormous assumption that those tips go to your server.

livesoft
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Re: When did this start??

Post by livesoft » Fri May 25, 2018 7:22 am

Looks like something Richard Thaler and Cass Sunstein would have suggested. That is, a nudge.
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JoMoney
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Re: When did this start??

Post by JoMoney » Fri May 25, 2018 7:22 am

simplesimon wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 7:11 am
...anybody think they would still have it?
Yes, I think they would have it, especially at a restaurant, because of situations like yours.
But I'm kind of leaning against the idea of you personally contacting the restaurant about it, you disputed it with your credit card company, they've made you whole, let them handle where it goes from there.
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Luke Duke
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Re: When did this start??

Post by Luke Duke » Fri May 25, 2018 7:28 am

The CC company will do nothing about it. If I were a restaurant manager/owner I would want to know if one of my staff was stealing from my customers.

retiredjg
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Re: When did this start??

Post by retiredjg » Fri May 25, 2018 7:35 am

tennisplyr wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 6:48 am
I've never tipped on the taxed amount, just the food and drink. Thoughts?
I think tipping on just the food and drink is "righter", but I'd been doing it the other way for so many years before I realized it....I just never changed.

I don't think it is a new thing. I just think people have different ways of doing it.

dbr
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Re: When did this start??

Post by dbr » Fri May 25, 2018 7:39 am

Thoughts? Do whatever you think the service deserves. Don't worry about what some system prints out for you.

NextMil
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Re: When did this start??

Post by NextMil » Fri May 25, 2018 7:42 am

Always tip on the full amount. 20% if Service is is good. 15% or 10% if mediocre or terrible. 20+% and a note on tab that you had great service if it was outstanding. The latter helps a server get better shifts, and if they are good you are helping diners to obtain better service.

Don’t try to reason your way out of tipping on the overall bill. That reflects poorly on the diner.

Valuethinker
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Re: When did this start??

Post by Valuethinker » Fri May 25, 2018 8:00 am

DragonJoey3 wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 6:57 am
I'm in the top 10% of income earners in the wealthiest country on the planet, and usually the person serving me food is working a crap job just to make ends meet and making less in tips in a day than I make in an hour. So I've always adopted the Dave Ramsey philosophy of being "Outrageously generous" with my tipping. My wife worked as a waitress for a while, and her family has been in the restaurant industry, so that might also be a reason that I feel compelled to give more.

My usual tip is 20-25% of the total, or $10 whichever is more. I recall the shock on managers face once at a particularly cheap diner we ate at when the tip exceeded the cost of the food. Giving away a small portion of our riches to make some poor waiter/waitresses day is fun. I guess I'm saying: "I don't worry if I'm tipping on taxes, the tip money is going to someone who is slaving away shuttling food to my table because I'm too lazy to go somewhere where I get it myself. Let the poor waiters have some money."

Obviously you tip whatever you're comfortable, but that's my perspective, and when viewed through the lens of "That waiter/waitress didn't take that job because they love waiting tables." I think it can give a different outlook on tips.
Well said.

It's the amount of the tip that matters, not just the percentage.

$10 means little to you, but a lot to the serving staff. 25% on a $500 bill is a lot of money, 25% on a $40 bill is not (for us). But-- behavioural finance says-- our brains don't think that way.

bob60014
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Re: When did this start??

Post by bob60014 » Fri May 25, 2018 8:02 am

Bacchus01 wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 7:15 am
DragonJoey3 wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 6:57 am
I'm in the top 10% of income earners in the wealthiest country on the planet, and usually the person serving me food is working a crap job just to make ends meet and making less in tips in a day than I make in an hour. So I've always adopted the Dave Ramsey philosophy of being "Outrageously generous" with my tipping. My wife worked as a waitress for a while, and her family has been in the restaurant industry, so that might also be a reason that I feel compelled to give more.

My usual tip is 20-25% of the total, or $10 whichever is more. I recall the shock on managers face once at a particularly cheap diner we ate at when the tip exceeded the cost of the food. Giving away a small portion of our riches to make some poor waiter/waitresses day is fun. I guess I'm saying: "I don't worry if I'm tipping on taxes, the tip money is going to someone who is slaving away shuttling food to my table because I'm too lazy to go somewhere where I get it myself. Let the poor waiters have some money."

Obviously you tip whatever you're comfortable, but that's my perspective, and when viewed through the lens of "That waiter/waitress didn't take that job because they love waiting tables." I think it can give a different outlook on tips.
You are making an enormous assumption that those tips go to your server.
In most places the tips will be split between, usually on a percentage basis, from the server to the bus staff and perhaps others. 10-15 percent seems to be the average each server puts into the pool.

Indeed, tipping large is a good way to share ones good fortune.
Last edited by bob60014 on Fri May 25, 2018 8:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

blueman457
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Re: When did this start??

Post by blueman457 » Fri May 25, 2018 8:03 am

I've noticed this before and it's a bit sneaky in my opinion. I'm an ok tipper (not horrible, not great).

I think it'll all poorly constructed because the back of the kitchen line chefs need better income support. Ex: if you have really good food you might leave a better tip, but that doesn't go to the line chef. Usually, the tip goes to the server. There are some restaurants that are going to the 20% service fee model, where a 20% surcharge on food/drink will be split to the line chefs, servers, front of the house, busboys, etc to share in tips.

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mortfree
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Re: When did this start??

Post by mortfree » Fri May 25, 2018 8:08 am

It's there at the bottom of the bill for the people who are not good at math.

I imagine they do it to ensure the server is tipped "fairly", whatever someone's definition of that might be.

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lthenderson
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Re: When did this start??

Post by lthenderson » Fri May 25, 2018 8:09 am

I've always tipped on the full amount. Never thought to do otherwise.

dbr
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Re: When did this start??

Post by dbr » Fri May 25, 2018 8:11 am

Valuethinker wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 8:00 am
DragonJoey3 wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 6:57 am
I'm in the top 10% of income earners in the wealthiest country on the planet, and usually the person serving me food is working a crap job just to make ends meet and making less in tips in a day than I make in an hour. So I've always adopted the Dave Ramsey philosophy of being "Outrageously generous" with my tipping. My wife worked as a waitress for a while, and her family has been in the restaurant industry, so that might also be a reason that I feel compelled to give more.

My usual tip is 20-25% of the total, or $10 whichever is more. I recall the shock on managers face once at a particularly cheap diner we ate at when the tip exceeded the cost of the food. Giving away a small portion of our riches to make some poor waiter/waitresses day is fun. I guess I'm saying: "I don't worry if I'm tipping on taxes, the tip money is going to someone who is slaving away shuttling food to my table because I'm too lazy to go somewhere where I get it myself. Let the poor waiters have some money."

Obviously you tip whatever you're comfortable, but that's my perspective, and when viewed through the lens of "That waiter/waitress didn't take that job because they love waiting tables." I think it can give a different outlook on tips.
Well said.

It's the amount of the tip that matters, not just the percentage.

$10 means little to you, but a lot to the serving staff. 25% on a $500 bill is a lot of money, 25% on a $40 bill is not (for us). But-- behavioural finance says-- our brains don't think that way.
Yep, I don't hesitate to leave a ridiculous percentage on a small check. Also, I couldn't care less if the % is on food or total. That is a minor variation.

NextMil
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Re: When did this start??

Post by NextMil » Fri May 25, 2018 8:12 am

blueman457 wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 8:03 am
I've noticed this before and it's a bit sneaky in my opinion. I'm an ok tipper (not horrible, not great).

I think it'll all poorly constructed because the back of the kitchen line chefs need better income support. Ex: if you have really good food you might leave a better tip, but that doesn't go to the line chef. Usually, the tip goes to the server. There are some restaurants that are going to the 20% service fee model, where a 20% surcharge on food/drink will be split to the line chefs, servers, front of the house, busboys, etc to share in tips.

Blue Man
When I served in college, I always tipped out the bar and kitchen staff, and I was generous. Its a system, and you want the back office happy and helpful when you are in the weeds. It was a no brainer for me, my food always came up fast and in great shape, and everyone made a lot more money.

chevca
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Re: When did this start??

Post by chevca » Fri May 25, 2018 8:25 am

Bacchus01 wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 7:15 am
DragonJoey3 wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 6:57 am
I'm in the top 10% of income earners in the wealthiest country on the planet, and usually the person serving me food is working a crap job just to make ends meet and making less in tips in a day than I make in an hour. So I've always adopted the Dave Ramsey philosophy of being "Outrageously generous" with my tipping. My wife worked as a waitress for a while, and her family has been in the restaurant industry, so that might also be a reason that I feel compelled to give more.

My usual tip is 20-25% of the total, or $10 whichever is more. I recall the shock on managers face once at a particularly cheap diner we ate at when the tip exceeded the cost of the food. Giving away a small portion of our riches to make some poor waiter/waitresses day is fun. I guess I'm saying: "I don't worry if I'm tipping on taxes, the tip money is going to someone who is slaving away shuttling food to my table because I'm too lazy to go somewhere where I get it myself. Let the poor waiters have some money."

Obviously you tip whatever you're comfortable, but that's my perspective, and when viewed through the lens of "That waiter/waitress didn't take that job because they love waiting tables." I think it can give a different outlook on tips.
You are making an enormous assumption that those tips go to your server.
Where else would the tips go?

TX_Drew
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Re: When did this start??

Post by TX_Drew » Fri May 25, 2018 8:26 am

DragonJoey3 wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 6:57 am
I'm in the top 10% of income earners in the wealthiest country on the planet, and usually the person serving me food is working a crap job just to make ends meet and making less in tips in a day than I make in an hour. So I've always adopted the Dave Ramsey philosophy of being "Outrageously generous" with my tipping. My wife worked as a waitress for a while, and her family has been in the restaurant industry, so that might also be a reason that I feel compelled to give more.

My usual tip is 20-25% of the total, or $10 whichever is more. I recall the shock on managers face once at a particularly cheap diner we ate at when the tip exceeded the cost of the food. Giving away a small portion of our riches to make some poor waiter/waitresses day is fun. I guess I'm saying: "I don't worry if I'm tipping on taxes, the tip money is going to someone who is slaving away shuttling food to my table because I'm too lazy to go somewhere where I get it myself. Let the poor waiters have some money."

Obviously you tip whatever you're comfortable, but that's my perspective, and when viewed through the lens of "That waiter/waitress didn't take that job because they love waiting tables." I think it can give a different outlook on tips.
Same here. Good post.

DetroitRick
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Re: When did this start??

Post by DetroitRick » Fri May 25, 2018 8:31 am

Like others have said, it's just there for the convenience of the math-challenged public. I wouldn't read anything more into it or feel one ounce of pressure. As far as tipping on tax, I do - I'm just not going to parse the bill.

We feel the same as DragonJoey3 says above - tipping can be fun. My way of saying "thanks". We've had an unusual spurt of great service over the past few years, and have had a number of meals at "off" hours where the wait staff isn't making much money but is still providing stellar service. So I'll typically drop a 30% tip or more. Maybe I'm "buying" a smile, but there are worse ways to drop money so I don't intend to change.

Tipping is just not something bothers me. Life is short - might as well have some fun with this stuff.

bob60014
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Re: When did this start??

Post by bob60014 » Fri May 25, 2018 8:41 am

It a big benefit for those visitors from overseas where tipping is not used. Take a look at the travel forums where the tipping questions are numerous and get many posters tied up in knots trying to figure it all out!

FlyAF
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Re: When did this start??

Post by FlyAF » Fri May 25, 2018 8:42 am

chevca wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 8:25 am
Bacchus01 wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 7:15 am
DragonJoey3 wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 6:57 am
I'm in the top 10% of income earners in the wealthiest country on the planet, and usually the person serving me food is working a crap job just to make ends meet and making less in tips in a day than I make in an hour. So I've always adopted the Dave Ramsey philosophy of being "Outrageously generous" with my tipping. My wife worked as a waitress for a while, and her family has been in the restaurant industry, so that might also be a reason that I feel compelled to give more.

My usual tip is 20-25% of the total, or $10 whichever is more. I recall the shock on managers face once at a particularly cheap diner we ate at when the tip exceeded the cost of the food. Giving away a small portion of our riches to make some poor waiter/waitresses day is fun. I guess I'm saying: "I don't worry if I'm tipping on taxes, the tip money is going to someone who is slaving away shuttling food to my table because I'm too lazy to go somewhere where I get it myself. Let the poor waiters have some money."

Obviously you tip whatever you're comfortable, but that's my perspective, and when viewed through the lens of "That waiter/waitress didn't take that job because they love waiting tables." I think it can give a different outlook on tips.
You are making an enormous assumption that those tips go to your server.
Where else would the tips go?
There's a lot of people on this board that have deluded themselves into thinking that all restaurants have moved to a sort of tip share scenario where the house takes the tips and then distributes as they see fit. This is simply not the case and is usually only bought into by people who are opposed to tipping and bad tippers in general. I normally avoid tipping threads here (been a lot lately) because a lot of the responses make me cringe. As if waiting tables isn't a big enough beating, you have millionaires on here that break down every nuance of a tip. I mean, being vehemently opposed to tipping on the few bucks of tax?

Like others mentioned, my household income is top couple of percent of the world so I enjoy tipping well and the perks that come with it. I also consider it like I'm subsidizing the guy at the next table over that refuses to tip anything more than 15% and only on the pre-tax total. I waited tables through college and there is nothing more defeating then getting a bad/mediocre tip when you did everything right just because the guy signing the bill seems to not agree with the societal norm of tipping.

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rustymutt
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Re: When did this start??

Post by rustymutt » Fri May 25, 2018 8:50 am

I enjoy giving to others who serve. It lets them know they are appreciated. We all need to know that we're appreciated for doing the service we provide. I have in the past, paid for veterans meals at restaurants. No reason other than I could, and wanted them to know how much their service to our nation means to me personally. Wealth is meaningless without grace to go with it. We can't take it with us, but can use it now to spread truth.
Share what you've have in excess with those less off than yourself. We can make America great again! It starts in our own hearts.
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chevca
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Re: When did this start??

Post by chevca » Fri May 25, 2018 8:53 am

I hadn't heard of that about the tips going to the house. I don't believe that either. Although, I've heard Starbucks does that with the tip jar. But, that's hardly what was brought up in this thread. Maybe what that other poster meant?

I'm not all that high an income earner, but I still enjoy being a generous tipper. My reason is mainly it is a job I have never wanted to do and can appreciate those willing to wait on us. I don't like people enough to wait on them. :happy

Frank Grimes
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Re: When did this start??

Post by Frank Grimes » Fri May 25, 2018 9:03 am

My general routine is look at the final total, times 0.1 and double it in my head. Takes 5 seconds, or maybe 10 if I'm feeling dumb.

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Clever_Username
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Re: When did this start??

Post by Clever_Username » Fri May 25, 2018 9:06 am

tennisplyr wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 6:48 am
I went to dinner last night and noticed something on the bill. Where the restaurant indicated suggested tipping on the bottom (20%, 18%, 15%), the tip is based on TOTAL bill including taxes. I've never tipped on the taxed amount, just the food and drink. Thoughts?
Happened to me Wednesday night too. When I get the bill, I figure out how much I'm going to tip based on the usual factors (cost, quality of service, etc).
"What was true then is true now. Have a plan. Stick to it." -- XXXX, _Layer Cake_

H-Town
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Re: When did this start??

Post by H-Town » Fri May 25, 2018 9:14 am

tennisplyr wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 6:48 am
I went to dinner last night and noticed something on the bill. Where the restaurant indicated suggested tipping on the bottom (20%, 18%, 15%), the tip is based on TOTAL bill including taxes. I've never tipped on the taxed amount, just the food and drink. Thoughts?
I didn't realize this before. I tip based on the level of service I receive and rarely use the suggested tipping at the bottom of the receipt.

Glockenspiel
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Re: When did this start??

Post by Glockenspiel » Fri May 25, 2018 9:31 am

Lately I've been calculating my tip based on 20% of the pre-tax bill and then will round either down or up to the nearest dollar depending on service. For haircuts, I often tip like 30-35% of the bill, because I go to an inexpensive place. I worked as a server in a restaurant while I was in college and seriously, tipping an extra few dollars will help make that server's day, but means almost nothing to me. You may think a $10 tip for an hour long dinner is a lot, but most servers only get about 24-36 hours of work a week.

delamer
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Re: When did this start??

Post by delamer » Fri May 25, 2018 10:31 am

tennisplyr wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 6:48 am
I went to dinner last night and noticed something on the bill. Where the restaurant indicated suggested tipping on the bottom (20%, 18%, 15%), the tip is based on TOTAL bill including taxes. I've never tipped on the taxed amount, just the food and drink. Thoughts?
My thought is that the difference is a trivial amount to you but adds up for a server over the course of a shift.

As long as the service was good, be generous.

Glockenspiel
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Re: When did this start??

Post by Glockenspiel » Fri May 25, 2018 10:51 am

Bacchus01 wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 7:15 am

You are making an enormous assumption that those tips go to your server.
The vast majority of those tips do go directly to your server. When I was a server, I did have to pay 2% of my SALES to the bartenders, hosts, and busboys. This was called a tip pool. This means that on a $100 bill, I paid $2 to the tip pool and kept the rest of my tip. So if someone tipped 15% on a $100 bill, it was only equivalent to a 13% tip.

Thus, if someone just plain didn't leave a tip at all, I actually LOST money. In effect, I paid OTHERS to serve YOU food.

scottgekko
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Re: When did this start??

Post by scottgekko » Fri May 25, 2018 11:02 am

I've never understand arguing the nuance of tipping pre-tax vs post-tax totals....If you have a $50 meal and tax is 8%, that's $4 in tax....if you tip 20% of pre-tax that's $9.20. 20% of post-tax is $10....why are some of y'all such sticklers for 80 cents? Talking about taking the pre-tax total and rounding down, or separating alcoholic beverages vs food and having some kind of tipping algorithm, etc....give the server a good tip or don't eat there. Jeez....I feel like some of y'all can't enjoy your meal without worrying you're going to tip too much. No offense meant to anyone, I just feel like there's plenty of other ways to pinch your pennies.

Jags4186
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Re: When did this start??

Post by Jags4186 » Fri May 25, 2018 11:08 am

Glockenspiel wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 10:51 am
Bacchus01 wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 7:15 am

You are making an enormous assumption that those tips go to your server.
The vast majority of those tips do go directly to your server. When I was a server, I did have to pay 2% of my SALES to the bartenders, hosts, and busboys. This was called a tip pool. This means that on a $100 bill, I paid $2 to the tip pool and kept the rest of my tip. So if someone tipped 15% on a $100 bill, it was only equivalent to a 13% tip.

Thus, if someone just plain didn't leave a tip at all, I actually LOST money. In effect, I paid OTHERS to serve YOU food.
This is the reason I hate the tipping culture of the United States. Sit down restaurants used to be 15%, then 18%, then 20%, then 20% post tax, now some people mention $10 minimum, etc. etc. etc. You are telling me if I leave a 15% tip and you are forced to share it with the bar staff I really only left 13%. It’s incredibly frustrating as a consumer to know all the secret rules of not offending people I’m already giving money too. We’ve significantly curtailed our restaurant habit because of this. I don’t want to be directly responsible for determining someones income when all I want to do is eat a hamburger.

Jags4186
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Re: When did this start??

Post by Jags4186 » Fri May 25, 2018 11:12 am

scottgekko wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 11:02 am
I've never understand arguing the nuance of tipping pre-tax vs post-tax totals....If you have a $50 meal and tax is 8%, that's $4 in tax....if you tip 20% of pre-tax that's $9.20. 20% of post-tax is $10....why are some of y'all such sticklers for 80 cents? Talking about taking the pre-tax total and rounding down, or separating alcoholic beverages vs food and having some kind of tipping algorithm, etc....give the server a good tip or don't eat there. Jeez....I feel like some of y'all can't enjoy your meal without worrying you're going to tip too much. No offense meant to anyone, I just feel like there's plenty of other ways to pinch your pennies.
It’s the principle. What is the breaking point? Would you tip 25%? What about 30%? What about 50%? When you buy a consumer item, do you not shop around for the best price? If I can buy an item at Amazon for $100 and Walmart is selling the identical item for $97 would I buy from Walmart. Maybe maybe not. What if the difference was $100 or $80? What if the difference was $120 and $50? What if it was Amazon or the store on the corner you want to support?

rbaldini
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Re: When did this start??

Post by rbaldini » Fri May 25, 2018 11:13 am

The additional amount paid in relative terms is (proportion_tip)*(proportion_sales_tax). So, if you tip 20% and your sales tax is 10% (yours is probably less than this), then that is 2% of the cost of the meal. Sure, that adds up over a lifetime, but ultimately it's $1 extra on a $50 meal. I wouldn't overthink it.

The whole "mandatory gratuity" (an oxymoron if there ever was one) system is very strange, but that's a different discussion.

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jharkin
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Re: When did this start??

Post by jharkin » Fri May 25, 2018 11:24 am

DragonJoey3 wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 6:57 am
I'm in the top 10% of income earners in the wealthiest country on the planet, and usually the person serving me food is working a crap job just to make ends meet and making less in tips in a day than I make in an hour. So I've always adopted the Dave Ramsey philosophy of being "Outrageously generous" with my tipping. My wife worked as a waitress for a while, and her family has been in the restaurant industry, so that might also be a reason that I feel compelled to give more.

My usual tip is 20-25% of the total, or $10 whichever is more. I recall the shock on managers face once at a particularly cheap diner we ate at when the tip exceeded the cost of the food. Giving away a small portion of our riches to make some poor waiter/waitresses day is fun. I guess I'm saying: "I don't worry if I'm tipping on taxes, the tip money is going to someone who is slaving away shuttling food to my table because I'm too lazy to go somewhere where I get it myself. Let the poor waiters have some money."

Obviously you tip whatever you're comfortable, but that's my perspective, and when viewed through the lens of "That waiter/waitress didn't take that job because they love waiting tables." I think it can give a different outlook on tips.
+1000

I always tip 20% of the total, minimum ; and for really small totals I often go quite a bit over that (as the servers dont work any less hard at a cheap chain restaurant then they do at the 4 seasons). When I'm dining with a large group and the restaurant adds an automatic 18%, I will throw in some on top of that even if nobody else in the party wants to.

I never understood why people go to such efforts to justify penny pinching. The other things that make me scratch my head are people who wont tip on alcohol, and groups that get out the calculator to split the bill down to the penny. If I'm out with a large group and somebody is short on cash I just cover it... the favor always gets repaid at some point.


Oh and BTW Im not a "2 comma" boglehead. You dont have to be wealthy to be generous.

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jharkin
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Re: When did this start??

Post by jharkin » Fri May 25, 2018 11:31 am

Bacchus01 wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 7:15 am

You are making an enormous assumption that those tips go to your server.
They often go into a pool and get split with the busboys and kitchen support staff - people who do even more thankless work than the waitstaff. If you are especially concerned, leave the tip in cash rather than on the credit card slip.

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jharkin
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Re: When did this start??

Post by jharkin » Fri May 25, 2018 11:34 am

Jags4186 wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 11:12 am
scottgekko wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 11:02 am
I've never understand arguing the nuance of tipping pre-tax vs post-tax totals....If you have a $50 meal and tax is 8%, that's $4 in tax....if you tip 20% of pre-tax that's $9.20. 20% of post-tax is $10....why are some of y'all such sticklers for 80 cents? Talking about taking the pre-tax total and rounding down, or separating alcoholic beverages vs food and having some kind of tipping algorithm, etc....give the server a good tip or don't eat there. Jeez....I feel like some of y'all can't enjoy your meal without worrying you're going to tip too much. No offense meant to anyone, I just feel like there's plenty of other ways to pinch your pennies.
It’s the principle. What is the breaking point? Would you tip 25%? What about 30%? What about 50%? When you buy a consumer item, do you not shop around for the best price? If I can buy an item at Amazon for $100 and Walmart is selling the identical item for $97 would I buy from Walmart. Maybe maybe not. What if the difference was $100 or $80? What if the difference was $120 and $50? What if it was Amazon or the store on the corner you want to support?
In your example the extra dollar is adding to Jeff Bezos' billions or buying another estate for Sam Walton's spoiled grandchildren. I dont shed a tear not helping them out.

The poor kid bringing me a burger at the local bar can use that buck a lot more.

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Re: When did this start??

Post by PVW » Fri May 25, 2018 11:40 am

scottgekko wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 11:02 am
I've never understand arguing the nuance of tipping pre-tax vs post-tax totals....If you have a $50 meal and tax is 8%, that's $4 in tax....if you tip 20% of pre-tax that's $9.20. 20% of post-tax is $10....why are some of y'all such sticklers for 80 cents? Talking about taking the pre-tax total and rounding down, or separating alcoholic beverages vs food and having some kind of tipping algorithm, etc....give the server a good tip or don't eat there. Jeez....I feel like some of y'all can't enjoy your meal without worrying you're going to tip too much. No offense meant to anyone, I just feel like there's plenty of other ways to pinch your pennies.
I can afford to pay extra for a lot of things, but I choose not to.

chevca
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Re: When did this start??

Post by chevca » Fri May 25, 2018 11:45 am

A question for the penny pinching tipsters.... why even go out to eat then, if worried about mere penny differences in tipping protocols? I mean, going out to eat is certainly not a way to spend less on food.

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Re: When did this start??

Post by arf1410 » Fri May 25, 2018 11:47 am

At the restaurant I worked at back in the day, the kitchen and bussing staff got a mandatory 20 or 25% cut off the tips, depending in the day of the week. At the mon and pop pace my daughter worked with counter service only, the owner kept 100% of tip jar. Partially for that reason, I virtually never put money in tip jars. Also, one does not know the quality of the food, or if the order wad even correct, until after it is eaten, so how can one tip beforehand? This tipping I everything system in the USA is awful...

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Re: When did this start??

Post by Jags4186 » Fri May 25, 2018 11:53 am

chevca wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 11:45 am
A question for the penny pinching tipsters.... why even go out to eat then, if worried about mere penny differences in tipping protocols? I mean, going out to eat is certainly not a way to spend less on food.
It's not about penny pinching, it's about the ever moving goal post and, as you just so perfectly exemplified, the browbeating of people for questioning the ever moving goal post.
Last edited by Jags4186 on Fri May 25, 2018 11:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Artful Dodger
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Re: When did this start??

Post by Artful Dodger » Fri May 25, 2018 11:54 am

tennisplyr wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 6:48 am
I went to dinner last night and noticed something on the bill. Where the restaurant indicated suggested tipping on the bottom (20%, 18%, 15%), the tip is based on TOTAL bill including taxes. I've never tipped on the taxed amount, just the food and drink. Thoughts?
I looked at this recently when I was replying to the thread on wine tipping. The vast majority of my restaurant checks don't give any guidance. The two I have from the past two months both base the recommended percentage on the food / drink bill before tax is added.

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Fudgie
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Re: When did this start??

Post by Fudgie » Fri May 25, 2018 11:54 am

DragonJoey3 wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 6:57 am
I'm in the top 10% of income earners in the wealthiest country on the planet, and usually the person serving me food is working a crap job just to make ends meet and making less in tips in a day than I make in an hour. So I've always adopted the Dave Ramsey philosophy of being "Outrageously generous" with my tipping. My wife worked as a waitress for a while, and her family has been in the restaurant industry, so that might also be a reason that I feel compelled to give more.

My usual tip is 20-25% of the total, or $10 whichever is more. I recall the shock on managers face once at a particularly cheap diner we ate at when the tip exceeded the cost of the food. Giving away a small portion of our riches to make some poor waiter/waitresses day is fun. I guess I'm saying: "I don't worry if I'm tipping on taxes, the tip money is going to someone who is slaving away shuttling food to my table because I'm too lazy to go somewhere where I get it myself. Let the poor waiters have some money."

Obviously you tip whatever you're comfortable, but that's my perspective, and when viewed through the lens of "That waiter/waitress didn't take that job because they love waiting tables." I think it can give a different outlook on tips.
This! 100%

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HomerJ
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Re: When did this start??

Post by HomerJ » Fri May 25, 2018 12:00 pm

We went to Top Golf the other day where it costs so much per hour to play... But they also have food and drinks.

So at the end of the two hours, I get a bill for like $120. Which includes $60 for playing, and $60 for the actual food and drinks.

Yet the tip suggestion was on the entire amount. So they were trying to trick me into paying a tip to the waitress on the $60 we paid for golf.
The J stands for Jay

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Gort
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Re: When did this start??

Post by Gort » Fri May 25, 2018 12:04 pm

At restaurants I tip on the pre-tax amount and then adjust and add an extra amount if I had tiped on the whole amount. Ha! Just kidding to see if anyone reads all these comments. I tip on the whole amount and round up the tip to a whole dollar. Makes it easier to do the math after a glass of wine or two :). I know people who tip an exact percentage then have to get out their phone calculator to add up the numbers. Drives me crazy! I also know some people who figure out the tip to make the bill and tip add up to a whole dollar amount. I don't know why they do this.

muddgirl
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Re: When did this start??

Post by muddgirl » Fri May 25, 2018 12:23 pm

arf1410 wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 11:47 am
At the mon and pop pace my daughter worked with counter service only, the owner kept 100% of tip jar.
That's illegal but unfortunately no employee is going to complain. What they can do is mandate to their employees how the tip jar is divided, but owners and supervisors can't be part of the tip pool.

Edit: FLSA is very clear, tips are the property of the employees.

PVW
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Re: When did this start??

Post by PVW » Fri May 25, 2018 12:26 pm

HomerJ wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 12:00 pm
We went to Top Golf the other day where it costs so much per hour to play... But they also have food and drinks.

So at the end of the two hours, I get a bill for like $120. Which includes $60 for playing, and $60 for the actual food and drinks.

Yet the tip suggestion was on the entire amount. So they were trying to trick me into paying a tip to the waitress on the $60 we paid for golf.
Do they also suggest a tip on the golf amount if you don't order any food and drinks?

TheDDC
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Re: When did this start??

Post by TheDDC » Fri May 25, 2018 12:30 pm

I tip based on service which is defined as work needed to accommodate my table based on consumed food and beverage. The state enforced rape/pillage on that service has no bearing on said tip. Therefore I don’t include it in the calculation. If you have particularly good service then tip 25% or hell, just double your bill and pay it for all I care. I have done this (when the bill was under $10).

- TheDDC

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HomerJ
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Re: When did this start??

Post by HomerJ » Fri May 25, 2018 12:30 pm

PVW wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 12:26 pm
HomerJ wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 12:00 pm
We went to Top Golf the other day where it costs so much per hour to play... But they also have food and drinks.

So at the end of the two hours, I get a bill for like $120. Which includes $60 for playing, and $60 for the actual food and drinks.

Yet the tip suggestion was on the entire amount. So they were trying to trick me into paying a tip to the waitress on the $60 we paid for golf.
Do they also suggest a tip on the golf amount if you don't order any food and drinks?
That would be an interesting experiment :)

But then golf isn't nearly as fun without a bucket of beer.
The J stands for Jay

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