Re: done with Gmail

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lotusflower
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Re: done with Gmail

Post by lotusflower » Mon May 21, 2018 9:36 am

Gadget wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 9:05 am
This is a KeePass issue. Not sure why you're blaming Gmail.
No, it sounds like a Windows issue. The way I read it, OP generated a new password, used it for Gmail, and then Windows crashed before he saved Keepass so the new password is no longer known. This is not Gmail's fault at all, but OP doesn't like Gmail for other reasons so it's still a fair question.
Gadget wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 9:05 am
All password managers have an automatic password change feature. And they should all keep a history of every automatically generated password. Even if you just hit generate a random password, then your browser crashed. This is what LastPass does anyway. If KeePass will generate a random password and not save it anywhere until it is done with a complete automated website password reset script, then that sounds like a KeePass bug that needs to be addressed. Although I am not entirely convinced that KeePass didn't save the password in a staging area for you anyway and you just haven't found it yet because it didn't update the website password prior to the crash. In LastPass, this would be in an area called randomly generated passwords or something.
I don't think Keepass has this automated password reset feature. It does have optional autosave, but if you don't actually finish editing the entry, it won't save. It could easily lose a password if the machine crashes before it can be saved. Personally I'm going to be a bit more careful to save Keepass first, now that I know it keeps a history, and even though my machine almost never crashes.

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Rob5TCP
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Re: done with Gmail

Post by Rob5TCP » Mon May 21, 2018 9:40 am

JoeRetire wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 8:48 am
Rob5TCP wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 8:37 am
My main issue with Gmail now is the 3-5 days before they will address the problem.
A paid email, with good service should resolve in hours.
This is certainly something you'll want to check into as you explore paid services.
I'm not sure I'd just assume that because it's paid, it "should" resolve so quickly.
The privacy with gmail has bothered me for awhile.
This just made leaving gmail a priority.
I don't think I understand this. Does this mean you are looking for a less secure/private email service? Or you want something that is "more private" than Gmail?
I am looking for a service that would be more responsive if there is a problems -- and the privacy issue has
become greater as I've read more about Google.

Fclevz
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Re: done with Gmail

Post by Fclevz » Mon May 21, 2018 9:42 am

Rob5TCP wrote:
Sun May 20, 2018 10:17 pm
My 2FA with google was a voice message to my home phone (I would change when going on vacation).
It attemps to send a text (rather than a voice message to my home phone). I am looking at alternatives
with 24/7 support.
It won't help you now, but for future reference, and for anyone else, you can bypass the 'can't get codes by phone' problem by printing out some backup codes: https://support.google.com/accounts/ans ... 7538?hl=en

Fclevz
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Re: done with Gmail

Post by Fclevz » Mon May 21, 2018 9:44 am

Rob5TCP wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 9:40 am
I am looking for a service that would be more responsive if there is a problems...
I've found that to be my internet service provider. They always provide email of some sort, and, since you're paying for their service, they answer the phone and have an incentive to help you in case of problems.

jebmke
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Re: done with Gmail

Post by jebmke » Mon May 21, 2018 10:19 am

Fclevz wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 9:44 am
Rob5TCP wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 9:40 am
I am looking for a service that would be more responsive if there is a problems...
I've found that to be my internet service provider. They always provide email of some sort, and, since you're paying for their service, they answer the phone and have an incentive to help you in case of problems.
Doesn't that create potential portability problem if you move or want to change ISPs?
When you discover that you are riding a dead horse, the best strategy is to dismount.

sksbog
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Re: done with Gmail

Post by sksbog » Mon May 21, 2018 10:34 am

You could use office 365 subscription, I think it's $5 a month. Well worth the amount of product s you will get in the package.

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Doom&Gloom
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Re: done with Gmail

Post by Doom&Gloom » Mon May 21, 2018 10:39 am

Afty wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 1:06 am
lotusflower wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 12:53 am
If you want to be ultra-safe with Keepass, you can always cut and paste the old password into the Notes area before generating a new password, and then save Keepass with both passwords before changing the password on whatever site you are using (e.g. Gmail). I don't do that for every site but I have done that for mission-critical sites.
No need to do this. Keepass keeps a history of old passwords under the history tab.
Dang! I have posted previously that I keep learning about Keepass features that I had been unaware of. This is another one. I have been using the same method as lotusflower. Thanks for saving me a bit of time and effort in my future!

Don't know if this could be the OP's issue or not, but when I first started using Keepass several years ago, I would sometimes forget to click "Save" when I made password or other changes. On the bright side it didn't take long for me to remember to save changes after a few aggravating incidents.

lotusflower
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Re: done with Gmail

Post by lotusflower » Mon May 21, 2018 11:56 am

Doom&Gloom wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 10:39 am
Don't know if this could be the OP's issue or not, but when I first started using Keepass several years ago, I would sometimes forget to click "Save" when I made password or other changes. On the bright side it didn't take long for me to remember to save changes after a few aggravating incidents.
There is an autosave option to save whenever you change an entry but it's off by default. Check Tools > Options > Advanced.

lotusflower
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Re: done with Gmail

Post by lotusflower » Mon May 21, 2018 12:00 pm

jebmke wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 10:19 am
Doesn't that create potential portability problem if you move or want to change ISPs?
Yes, the OP would be smart to get a custom domain (is rob5tcp.net still available?) when setting up the new service. Then the address will be portable between service providers forever. I wish I had done that before switching to gmail but that horse left the barn long ago.

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Doom&Gloom
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Re: done with Gmail

Post by Doom&Gloom » Mon May 21, 2018 12:25 pm

lotusflower wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 11:56 am
Doom&Gloom wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 10:39 am
Don't know if this could be the OP's issue or not, but when I first started using Keepass several years ago, I would sometimes forget to click "Save" when I made password or other changes. On the bright side it didn't take long for me to remember to save changes after a few aggravating incidents.
There is an autosave option to save whenever you change an entry but it's off by default. Check Tools > Options > Advanced.
It was off; now it is on. I just don't know what I don't know about Keepass.

Thanks :beer

go_mets
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Re: done with Gmail

Post by go_mets » Mon May 21, 2018 12:42 pm

Bongleur wrote:
Sun May 20, 2018 11:33 pm
You should be using a POP account so all the emails are copied onto your personal hard drive as they are received.
http://www.pop2imap.com/

rgs92
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Re: done with Gmail

Post by rgs92 » Mon May 21, 2018 12:51 pm

Whenever I change an email password, I do it directly in the email account. I can't see how even a system crash could cause something to go wrong using this simple approach, because either it performs the change or does not, and either the old or new password works.

It sounds dangerous to me to use external software to perform such a critical change and something I would never do, since I am paranoid about such things.

(This reminds me of my database days with the "2-phase commit" for database transactions with updating.)

It sounds like this is what happened, but please correct me if I'm wrong.

By the way, most major email providers have recovery methods via phone numbers or other email addresses. I once had to use this and it worked fine.

My only issue with the big email services is that they will lock me out of an account (or even close it down) if I haven't used it for a long time, which can be an annoying hassle.

mptfan
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Re: done with Gmail

Post by mptfan » Mon May 21, 2018 1:23 pm

Fclevz wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 9:42 am
It won't help you now, but for future reference, and for anyone else, you can bypass the 'can't get codes by phone' problem by printing out some backup codes: https://support.google.com/accounts/ans ... 7538?hl=en
I don't think the backup codes help if you do not know the password, I think the backup codes are one form of two factor authentication that are meant to be used in addition to knowing your password. Am I correct about this?
Last edited by mptfan on Mon May 21, 2018 3:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

JoeRetire
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Re: done with Gmail

Post by JoeRetire » Mon May 21, 2018 2:42 pm

rgs92 wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 12:51 pm
Whenever I change an email password, I do it directly in the email account. I can't see how even a system crash could cause something to go wrong using this simple approach, because either it performs the change or does not, and either the old or new password works.
The way it could go wrong is that the OP doesn't know the new password:
"I was changing passwords with keepass - when there was a crash.
Password took, but keepass doesn't have the password."

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Pajamas
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Re: done with Gmail

Post by Pajamas » Mon May 21, 2018 2:53 pm

Rob5TCP wrote:
Sun May 20, 2018 9:43 pm
I was changing passwords with keepass - when there was a crash.
So really the problem has nothing to do with Gmail itself other than they make account recovery difficult if you lose your password.

I have had a couple of rarely-used Gmail accounts that I wasn't able to recover when I lost the password despite knowing when I created the account and having a forwarding account listed. There is no number to call or similar as far as I could determine for free Gmail accounts. Expecting advanced customer service for free email would be unreasonable, so I just accepted that I had lost access.

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weltschmerz
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Re: done with Gmail

Post by weltschmerz » Mon May 21, 2018 3:42 pm

OP, I recommend you do the following in the future:

1) create new password in Notepad or any text editor. Or if you create the password in Keepass, copy it and paste it into the text editor.
2) Save Notepad file to your desktop.
3) copy password out of the Notepad file.
4) paste password where needed, for example, Gmail, Keepass, etc.
5) once everything is done, and your system hasn't crashed, erase the Notepad file

This way, you have a backup copy of the password until all of your changes have been made.

mptfan
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Re: done with Gmail

Post by mptfan » Mon May 21, 2018 3:49 pm

I create a pass phrase for my Gmail account that I remember in my head and is known only to me, like "I like to post on Bogleheads" becomes "iltpob" and then I usually add some combination of numbers or special characters that has some significance to me and only I know, and that is my password. The result is a password that is a combination of letters and numbers and special characters that appears to be random, but is easy for me to remember. And I use two factor authentication. I've never had an issue and I don't see the need for KeePass or any other password program, that just adds an unnecessary layer of complication in my view.

lotusflower
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Re: done with Gmail

Post by lotusflower » Mon May 21, 2018 3:53 pm

mptfan wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 3:49 pm
I create a pass phrase for my Gmail account that I remember in my head, like "I like to post on Bogleheads" becomes "iltpob" and then I usually add some combination of numbers or special characters that has some significance to me and only I know, and that is my password. The result is a password that is a combination of letters and numbers and special characters that appears to be random, but is easy for me to remember. And I use two factor authentication. I've never had an issue and I don't see the need for KeePass or any other password program, that just adds an unnecessary layer of complication in my view.
I have about 200 passwords to keep track of. Do you use the same PW for every site?

jebmke
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Re: done with Gmail

Post by jebmke » Mon May 21, 2018 3:54 pm

mptfan wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 3:49 pm
I create a pass phrase for my Gmail account that I remember in my head, like "I like to post on Bogleheads" becomes "iltpob" and then I usually add some combination of numbers or special characters that has some significance to me and only I know, and that is my password. The result is a password that is a combination of letters and numbers and special characters that appears to be random, but is easy for me to remember. And I use two factor authentication. I've never had an issue and I don't see the need for KeePass or any other password program, that just adds an unnecessary layer of complication in my view.
I do something similar to this for my Keepass key; too many accounts to use this method broadly though. I'd never remember them all.
When you discover that you are riding a dead horse, the best strategy is to dismount.

jebmke
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Re: done with Gmail

Post by jebmke » Mon May 21, 2018 3:55 pm

lotusflower wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 3:53 pm
I have about 200 passwords to keep track of. Do you use the same PW for every site?
I sure hope not; that is like leaving a sign on all your locked doors explaining that the back door is unlocked.
When you discover that you are riding a dead horse, the best strategy is to dismount.

mptfan
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Re: done with Gmail

Post by mptfan » Mon May 21, 2018 3:56 pm

lotusflower wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 3:53 pm
I have about 200 passwords to keep track of. Do you use the same PW for every site?
No. I use the same method to create different passwords for the sites that I consider "mission critical" which include my email and my financial accounts. That adds up to 3 different passphrases that I am able to remember, and I use two factor authentication for each. Other than that, I create semi-random passwords that I keep track of on a spreadsheet and I do use the Chrome password extension for those.

I agree that the proliferation of accounts and sites that require usernames and passwords is an issue and does present challenges, but I think it's important to separate out those sites that are mission critical and give those sites special treatment regarding how you handle those passwords. I think one's primary email account is mission critical, and this thread illustrates what can go wrong when you add complexity to the process.

Loik098
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Re: done with Gmail

Post by Loik098 » Mon May 21, 2018 4:08 pm

In my opinion, relying solely on a password manager is dangerous:

1) I use a lot of randomly-generated passwords that can't be remembered. I also don't reuse passwords for sensitive sites. If password manager does something like OP's did, I'm toast.
2) If I get hit by a bus tomorrow and wife doesn't know my LastPass master password, or can't access it, or can't remember which pw manager I use, or has any other technical issue, she's toast.

Wife also doesn't necessarily know financial things like when bills are auto-paid/by which account, or when to cancel open credit cards with AFs, etc. She knows a lot of it, but not all of it....particularly the stuff I do on my own.

For these reasons, we have a jump drive + paper copy of a "Death Doc" excel sheet that has all passwords, bills that we pay, accounts that we each hold individually, etc., in our safety deposit box. I'll pull it out of the box each time I visit it and update with any necessary information.
Last edited by Loik098 on Mon May 21, 2018 4:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

jebmke
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Re: done with Gmail

Post by jebmke » Mon May 21, 2018 4:09 pm

I could remember 3 but I probably have 25-30 mission critical/sensitive personal sites plus about a dozen related to volunteer work I do.

No way I could remember that many.
When you discover that you are riding a dead horse, the best strategy is to dismount.

JoeRetire
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Re: done with Gmail

Post by JoeRetire » Mon May 21, 2018 4:50 pm

lotusflower wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 3:53 pm
I have about 200 passwords to keep track of. Do you use the same PW for every site?
I also have many passwords.

I use a scheme involving a base password derived from a phrase, numbers and special characters significant to me, plus a site-unique portion derived from the site name.

Each password is unique, but not hard to remember.

mxs
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Re: done with Gmail

Post by mxs » Mon May 21, 2018 8:15 pm

I know with the mobile version of Gmail you can authenticate with your phone using some code within the Android system menus. Not sure if that is of use to you or not.

SittingOnTheFence
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Re: done with Gmail

Post by SittingOnTheFence » Tue May 22, 2018 12:48 am

student wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 5:27 am
SittingOnTheFence wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 12:30 am
There is a guy in the UK who tries to use my email (xyz@gmail.com) but since I use that he then tries x.yz or xy.z
Google strips the '.' so when this guy gives out an address for correspondence (x.yz or varient) the original xyz acct (me) gets all of it.
Since Gmail treats xyz is the same as x.yz, I don't think Gmail will allow someone to setup a new account with x.yz. Maybe the person mistyped it.
You are absolutely correct that Google would not allow such an account to be created. Maybe I did not express the issue properly. So let's use Bogleheads as an example.

You sign up for Bogleheads. They want an email address. So you give it xyz@gmail.com. So Bogleheads sends a confirmation to me (also xyz). I am not signing up for Bogleheads so I delete the email w/o verifying the address.

Sometime later, you realize that you never received the verification and decide to try x.yz. Same thing happens.

In the cases I mentioned earlier, most likely the person merely gave an email address of xyz or one of it's legal variants when filling out a registration for whatever, but this address was not verified by either party. This is similar to you going to a Doctor and them asking for an email addr. No one is going to check and see if it's valid.

And as I mentioned earlier regarding Reddit, Reddit is checking that I entered a valid email address. Since someone else entered my xyz email account name, they are refusing to allow me to use it. That person will never get an email from Reddit, I will get that email. In all likelihood, some time in the past I received a verification from Reddit but simply deleted it as spam (at that time not realizing what was really happening). Now, when I wish to change my Reddit email from Yahoo to Gmail, and cannot I try x.yz and the verification goes to me because x.yz goes to my xyz acct. Reddit could break this if they programed a way to detect gmail's various legitimate alternative addresses. And if Reddit gave me a way to try to address the issue of my email address being falsely used then I would do it. However, their site seems to be mostly automatic and support gives only canned responses.

Rgds, xyz. aka x.yz. aka xy.z. aka xyz+(any numeric string)

student
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Re: done with Gmail

Post by student » Tue May 22, 2018 5:41 am

SittingOnTheFence wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 12:48 am
student wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 5:27 am
SittingOnTheFence wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 12:30 am
There is a guy in the UK who tries to use my email (xyz@gmail.com) but since I use that he then tries x.yz or xy.z
Google strips the '.' so when this guy gives out an address for correspondence (x.yz or varient) the original xyz acct (me) gets all of it.
Since Gmail treats xyz is the same as x.yz, I don't think Gmail will allow someone to setup a new account with x.yz. Maybe the person mistyped it.
You are absolutely correct that Google would not allow such an account to be created. Maybe I did not express the issue properly. So let's use Bogleheads as an example.

You sign up for Bogleheads. They want an email address. So you give it xyz@gmail.com. So Bogleheads sends a confirmation to me (also xyz). I am not signing up for Bogleheads so I delete the email w/o verifying the address.

Sometime later, you realize that you never received the verification and decide to try x.yz. Same thing happens.

In the cases I mentioned earlier, most likely the person merely gave an email address of xyz or one of it's legal variants when filling out a registration for whatever, but this address was not verified by either party. This is similar to you going to a Doctor and them asking for an email addr. No one is going to check and see if it's valid.

And as I mentioned earlier regarding Reddit, Reddit is checking that I entered a valid email address. Since someone else entered my xyz email account name, they are refusing to allow me to use it. That person will never get an email from Reddit, I will get that email. In all likelihood, some time in the past I received a verification from Reddit but simply deleted it as spam (at that time not realizing what was really happening). Now, when I wish to change my Reddit email from Yahoo to Gmail, and cannot I try x.yz and the verification goes to me because x.yz goes to my xyz acct. Reddit could break this if they programed a way to detect gmail's various legitimate alternative addresses. And if Reddit gave me a way to try to address the issue of my email address being falsely used then I would do it. However, their site seems to be mostly automatic and support gives only canned responses.

Rgds, xyz. aka x.yz. aka xy.z. aka xyz+(any numeric string)
Thanks for the clarification.

tibbitts
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Re: done with Gmail

Post by tibbitts » Tue May 22, 2018 6:46 am

JoeRetire wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 4:50 pm
lotusflower wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 3:53 pm
I have about 200 passwords to keep track of. Do you use the same PW for every site?
I also have many passwords.

I use a scheme involving a base password derived from a phrase, numbers and special characters significant to me, plus a site-unique portion derived from the site name.

Each password is unique, but not hard to remember.
That's interesting, and probably okay, although when one of your passwords gets published on the internet (happened to me just this weekend) as

me123bogleheads

it might not be too big a jump for somebody to translate that to me123vanguard. I guess I'd feel a little exposed if the me123 part got out and the site portion was somewhat obvious.

Of course if your user-ids are also unique (many of mine aren't) you wouldn't have as much of an issue.

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N1CKV
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Re: done with Gmail

Post by N1CKV » Tue May 22, 2018 8:32 am

The problem is in your efforts to have a super secure password (so secure that even you don't know it) that you depended on a piece of software to keep track of it, when that piece of software failed you want to blame you lack of knowing your password on the email account provider. The account provider expects you to know your password, I know, it's a novel concept and all...

For the record, I do use a password manager, but I do not allow it to make random passwords for me.

Also, can't you use a secondary email account to facilitate recovery of your primary gmail account? Are you some high level executive or government official that is likely to be targeted by criminals that necessitates having uber secure passwords?
I have met a lot of people that claim to love money, but they also seem to be the same people that are in the biggest hurry to get rid of it.

cocoon
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Re: done with Gmail

Post by cocoon » Tue May 22, 2018 8:34 am

Yeah, I also think Zoho Mail is a good option!

JoeRetire
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Re: done with Gmail

Post by JoeRetire » Tue May 22, 2018 2:05 pm

tibbitts wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 6:46 am
That's interesting, and probably okay, although when one of your passwords gets published on the internet (happened to me just this weekend) as

me123bogleheads

it might not be too big a jump for somebody to translate that to me123vanguard. I guess I'd feel a little exposed if the me123 part got out and the site portion was somewhat obvious.

Of course if your user-ids are also unique (many of mine aren't) you wouldn't have as much of an issue.
LOL! I wouldn't use anything like "bogleheads" or "vanguard" in a password. (Nor would I use "me" or "123" for that matter. The method I use isn't close to being that obvious.

mouses
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Re: done with Gmail

Post by mouses » Tue May 22, 2018 3:07 pm

munemaker wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 6:21 am
I don't know if this happens for everyone, but I assume it does. When I set up my gmail account, they give you a bunch of codes (10 I think) to use to restore your account if you ever get locked out. Did you try one of these codes?

edit: Thinking back, I think this was for Chrome. Not sure if it would help in this case?
Not sure I understand your post. I have a gmail account, but I don't recall getting any codes. If I'm logged in, can I get these codes somehow to store away?

My problem with gmail is its spam filter. It probably decides something is spam about once a week, and 3 times out of 4 it's legitimate email. So I have to periodically visit it on the web, even though I use thunderbird. It's beyond me how their spam algorithm works.

mptfan
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Re: done with Gmail

Post by mptfan » Tue May 22, 2018 3:09 pm

mouses wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 3:07 pm
I have a gmail account, but I don't recall getting any codes. If I'm logged in, can I get these codes somehow to store away?
Yes, you can.

https://support.google.com/accounts/ans ... 7538?hl=en

tesuzuki2002
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Re: done with Gmail

Post by tesuzuki2002 » Tue May 22, 2018 3:32 pm

Rob5TCP wrote:
Sun May 20, 2018 8:45 pm
Is there a better, easier to recover email than Gmail (even if I have to pay).
Today was the last straw.
I know a lot of people love gmail; I just reached my end.
I don't like hotmail or outlook or yahoo.
Are there better ones, even if I have to pay.
To clear my Gmail it will take 3-5 days.
This happened once before and it was 10 days.
Should have dumped gmail back then.

Suggestions welcome.

I'd love to hear about why you are having such trouble?? to clear will take 3-5 days? What is needed to clear? Many other platforms are trying to provide the features that gmail already does and they can't keep up... I think it is GREAT and some of the features in the labs are Fantastic and I submit new suggestions often and I see them being worked on! It's great stuff...

cheers!

mptfan
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Re: done with Gmail

Post by mptfan » Tue May 22, 2018 3:51 pm

tesuzuki2002 wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 3:32 pm
I'd love to hear about why you are having such trouble??
It's simple really, he is trying to access a Gmail account without knowing the password. That SHOULD be hard to do.

tesuzuki2002
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Re: done with Gmail

Post by tesuzuki2002 » Tue May 22, 2018 5:48 pm

mptfan wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 3:51 pm
tesuzuki2002 wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 3:32 pm
I'd love to hear about why you are having such trouble??
It's simple really, he is trying to access a Gmail account without knowing the password. That SHOULD be hard to do.
oh! well then kudos to GMAIL for making it difficult to access your account when you forgot the password!!!

mptfan
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Re: done with Gmail

Post by mptfan » Wed May 23, 2018 9:15 am

tesuzuki2002 wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 5:48 pm
oh! well then kudos to GMAIL for making it difficult to access your account when you forgot the password!!!
He did not forget the password, he never knew it.

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Rob5TCP
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Re: done with Gmail

Post by Rob5TCP » Thu May 24, 2018 7:34 am

This morning Gmail sent me a link to reset my password.
I am changing my procedure so I do a backup of the new password BEFORE I reset it.
But, I am still looking to switch off gmail for the privacy issues raised as well.

Thank you for the suggestions. At least my Memorial day weekend I won't be dwelling on this.

Have good Holiday all.

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Pancakes-Eggs-Bacon
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Re: done with Gmail

Post by Pancakes-Eggs-Bacon » Thu May 24, 2018 7:34 am

Rob5TCP wrote:
Sun May 20, 2018 10:17 pm
My 2FA with google was a voice message to my home phone (I would change when going on vacation).
It attemps to send a text (rather than a voice message to my home phone).
I coulda sworn you could have Gmail call your recovery phone to reset your password instead of text message.

Edit: Nevermind. Looks like you got a reset e-mail sent from Support. Still, in the future, make sure you set up a recovery phone number and recovery e-mail address in case you can't access the password.

I'm currently still with Microsoft and Google's e-mail solutions but need to switch to a more private provider. I'm thinking of Protonmail, since I'm not anywhere ready to "roll my own" e-mail server in my house.

JoeRetire
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Re: done with Gmail

Post by JoeRetire » Thu May 24, 2018 7:46 am

Rob5TCP wrote:
Thu May 24, 2018 7:34 am
But, I am still looking to switch off gmail for the privacy issues raised as well.
Good luck.
Let us know which email client you choose that meets your privacy needs.

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Rob5TCP
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Re: done with Gmail

Post by Rob5TCP » Thu May 24, 2018 7:53 am

JoeRetire wrote:
Thu May 24, 2018 7:46 am
Rob5TCP wrote:
Thu May 24, 2018 7:34 am
But, I am still looking to switch off gmail for the privacy issues raised as well.
Good luck.
Let us know which email client you choose that meets your privacy needs.
I intend to take my time -- I don't want to change and then find the grass is greener ...
I will be looking at each of the selections in detail before I make a move.
I may even do a test change first just to see how it is (maybe use it for a month or so before I transfer all
my contacts).

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lthenderson
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Re: done with Gmail

Post by lthenderson » Thu May 24, 2018 8:12 am

Loik098 wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 4:08 pm
In my opinion, relying solely on a password manager is dangerous:

1) I use a lot of randomly-generated passwords that can't be remembered. I also don't reuse passwords for sensitive sites. If password manager does something like OP's did, I'm toast.
2) If I get hit by a bus tomorrow and wife doesn't know my LastPass master password, or can't access it, or can't remember which pw manager I use, or has any other technical issue, she's toast.

Wife also doesn't necessarily know financial things like when bills are auto-paid/by which account, or when to cancel open credit cards with AFs, etc. She knows a lot of it, but not all of it....particularly the stuff I do on my own.

For these reasons, we have a jump drive + paper copy of a "Death Doc" excel sheet that has all passwords, bills that we pay, accounts that we each hold individually, etc., in our safety deposit box. I'll pull it out of the box each time I visit it and update with any necessary information.
In my case, it was much easier to teach my wife one single password to access the password manager than to teach her how to access the information on a jump drive in a safe deposit box downtown that may or may not have been updated to the latest passwords from each of our accounts.

Angelus359
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Re: done with Gmail

Post by Angelus359 » Thu May 24, 2018 8:21 am

I've heard good things about proton mail
IT-DevOps System Administrator

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pondering
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Re: done with Gmail

Post by pondering » Thu May 24, 2018 8:59 am

The problem is that google’s customers, the advertisers, don’t care about small problems with the service, in this case the SLA for users with locked mailboxes.
--Robert Sterbal | 412-977-3526 call/text

mptfan
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Re: done with Gmail

Post by mptfan » Thu May 24, 2018 9:59 am

Rob5TCP wrote:
Thu May 24, 2018 7:34 am
This morning Gmail sent me a link to reset my password.
I am changing my procedure so I do a backup of the new password BEFORE I reset it.
Out of curiosity, what did you have to do to convince Gmail that it was your account? Obviously you did not know the password. Did you have other methods of authentication set up, like a second email, or a phone number, or the Google Authenticator app?

mptfan
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Re: done with Gmail

Post by mptfan » Thu May 24, 2018 10:59 am

Angelus359 wrote:
Thu May 24, 2018 8:21 am
I've heard good things about proton mail
This is from the Proton mail website...

ProtonMail's zero access architecture means that your data is encrypted in a way that makes it inaccessible to us. Data is encrypted on the client side using an encryption key that we do not have access to. This means we don't have the technical ability to decrypt your messages, and as a result, we are unable to hand your data over to third parties. With ProtonMail, privacy isn't just a promise, it is mathematically ensured. For this reason, we are also unable to do data recovery. If you forget your password, we cannot recover your data.

So, if the OP had Protonmail instead of Gmail and he was in the same situation, there would have been no way for him to recover his email.

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Rob5TCP
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Re: done with Gmail

Post by Rob5TCP » Thu May 24, 2018 11:30 am

mptfan wrote:
Thu May 24, 2018 9:59 am
Rob5TCP wrote:
Thu May 24, 2018 7:34 am
This morning Gmail sent me a link to reset my password.
I am changing my procedure so I do a backup of the new password BEFORE I reset it.
Out of curiosity, what did you have to do to convince Gmail that it was your account? Obviously you did not know the password. Did you have other methods of authentication set up, like a second email, or a phone number, or the Google Authenticator app?
I found my backup codes. Plus I had a backup email. For some reason they never tried any of my phone numbers.
Plus I gave them them the prior password.

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Rob5TCP
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Re: done with Gmail

Post by Rob5TCP » Sun May 27, 2018 7:46 am

mptfan wrote:
Thu May 24, 2018 10:59 am
Angelus359 wrote:
Thu May 24, 2018 8:21 am
I've heard good things about proton mail
This is from the Proton mail website...

ProtonMail's zero access architecture means that your data is encrypted in a way that makes it inaccessible to us. Data is encrypted on the client side using an encryption key that we do not have access to. This means we don't have the technical ability to decrypt your messages, and as a result, we are unable to hand your data over to third parties. With ProtonMail, privacy isn't just a promise, it is mathematically ensured. For this reason, we are also unable to do data recovery. If you forget your password, we cannot recover your data.

So, if the OP had Protonmail instead of Gmail and he was in the same situation, there would have been no way for him to recover his email.
Retrieving all the old emails is not critical - this particular account gets all my receipts from online purchases. I immediately download and save the .pdf files.

I have hundreds and hundreds of sites here -- what I intend to do (after the holidays) is port over my emails
to the other site (Proton looks to be the best option, for me anyway) and then gradually go about changing all my sites to the new email.

It was the inability (yes I should have downloaded them to a file) to have the list of everyone that I receive receipts.

tibbitts
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Re: done with Gmail

Post by tibbitts » Sun May 27, 2018 8:36 am

JoeRetire wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 2:05 pm
tibbitts wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 6:46 am
That's interesting, and probably okay, although when one of your passwords gets published on the internet (happened to me just this weekend) as

me123bogleheads

it might not be too big a jump for somebody to translate that to me123vanguard. I guess I'd feel a little exposed if the me123 part got out and the site portion was somewhat obvious.

Of course if your user-ids are also unique (many of mine aren't) you wouldn't have as much of an issue.
LOL! I wouldn't use anything like "bogleheads" or "vanguard" in a password. (Nor would I use "me" or "123" for that matter. The method I use isn't close to being that obvious.
How have you documented your method such that others can reproduce your passwords when they'll need to? If you don't use the precise site name as I suggested how can someone else determine the name you chose? Obviously I was giving an example but if it's not that simple you have to have it documented for others to understand - and then you have to make that documentation both secure and available.

JoeRetire
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Re: done with Gmail

Post by JoeRetire » Sun May 27, 2018 12:27 pm

tibbitts wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 8:36 am
JoeRetire wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 2:05 pm
tibbitts wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 6:46 am
That's interesting, and probably okay, although when one of your passwords gets published on the internet (happened to me just this weekend) as

me123bogleheads

it might not be too big a jump for somebody to translate that to me123vanguard. I guess I'd feel a little exposed if the me123 part got out and the site portion was somewhat obvious.

Of course if your user-ids are also unique (many of mine aren't) you wouldn't have as much of an issue.
LOL! I wouldn't use anything like "bogleheads" or "vanguard" in a password. (Nor would I use "me" or "123" for that matter. The method I use isn't close to being that obvious.
How have you documented your method such that others can reproduce your passwords when they'll need to? If you don't use the precise site name as I suggested how can someone else determine the name you chose? Obviously I was giving an example but if it's not that simple you have to have it documented for others to understand - and then you have to make that documentation both secure and available.
The "algorithm" is documented in my "after I'm gone" (printed) file, which sits in my safe deposit box, along with other important documents.
It allows anyone who reads it to determine all the passwords I use.

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