Is there a boglehead muscle car?

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ronteller11
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Is there a boglehead muscle car?

Post by ronteller11 » Mon May 14, 2018 7:25 am

Owning a muscle car doesn’t seem to be a very economical thing to do. But for those that do, which is the best choice? I have been looking at the more fuel efficient v6/ecoboost, love the look of the challenger/charger but not too excited about Chrysler reputation, although it seems to have come a long way from where it was before. The Charger has always been my favorite car, but I don’t think I could live with myself if I bought one and it crapped out on me.

The mustang is popular and seems to have the best rating reliability wise, although the Mustang is almost too popular to me and doesntt stand out as much on the road to me as say a Camaro, challenger or charger.

Of course there are the more powerful options (GT, R/T, Hellcat) but I’m looking to stay below $25k. Plus it is mostly the appearance of muscle without the performance/noise I am chasing after

livesoft
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Re: Is there a boglehead muscle car?

Post by livesoft » Mon May 14, 2018 7:27 am

I think it's a Tesla with Ludicrous Speed.

I suppose one day somebody will put a Mustang body on a Tesla frame.
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Silk McCue
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Re: Is there a boglehead muscle car?

Post by Silk McCue » Mon May 14, 2018 7:31 am

BogleHead Smart Car Muscle Car

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Cheers

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midareff
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Re: Is there a boglehead muscle car?

Post by midareff » Mon May 14, 2018 7:32 am

anything AMG

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PrettyCoolWorkshop
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Re: Is there a boglehead muscle car?

Post by PrettyCoolWorkshop » Mon May 14, 2018 7:35 am

Probably a Nissan 240sx. That is the car that a lot of drifters buy for cheap so they can modify the heck out of them for cheap.
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Cyclesafe
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Re: Is there a boglehead muscle car?

Post by Cyclesafe » Mon May 14, 2018 7:39 am

A modified Honda Civic. That's what the kids covet around here. Leave the car for a few weeks at a shop and you'll not recognize it when you pick it up. Shouldn't cost too much and if its just for show for you the chip won't show any abuse so resale will be quick and easy.

matatupuncher
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Re: Is there a boglehead muscle car?

Post by matatupuncher » Mon May 14, 2018 7:49 am

Any rental car is definitely a muscle car as well. I always laugh when people talk about buying rental cars.

dsmclone
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Re: Is there a boglehead muscle car?

Post by dsmclone » Mon May 14, 2018 7:53 am

I see no reason why a modern day muscle car couldn't be on the list.

People don't think twice about buying a $50k Honda Pilot and then not have more than 2 people in it 99% of the time.

Buy a couple year old Camaro SS or Mustang GT and you'll have a fun and reliable car that will cost you less to own over it's lifetime than your average SUV. There are certain families where they don't make sense but for someone like myself who doesn't have kids, have another vehicle for long road trips, etc. they would be a fine choice.

If you go with a Mustang or Camaro I would go with the V8 without hesitation. The V6 options are a lot better than they use to be but the V8 is still where it's at. They get good gas mileage and they sound great. Most have active exhaust so they can be quiet if you want them to be. The only problem I have with the camaro is rear visibility. Correct mirror adjustment helps a lot but it's still pretty bad. I'd guess 95% of the people on the road have their mirrors set up incorrectly.
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stemikger
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Re: Is there a boglehead muscle car?

Post by stemikger » Mon May 14, 2018 7:55 am

The Nissan Versa. It's the most inexpensive car sold today. I tend to flex my muscles elsewhere.
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bubbadog
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Re: Is there a boglehead muscle car?

Post by bubbadog » Mon May 14, 2018 8:03 am

The Chevrolet SS comes to mind.

alfaspider
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Re: Is there a boglehead muscle car?

Post by alfaspider » Mon May 14, 2018 8:13 am

A bogglehead muscle car would be built by the owner rather than purchased as a muscle car. You might procure a motor such as this idea for a "free" 500hp LS motor produced by mixing and matching junkyard components and selling the extras:

https://oppositelock.kinja.com/how-to-s ... 1131506504

And then stuff it into an inexpensive and unassuming shell.

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Re: Is there a boglehead muscle car?

Post by alfaspider » Mon May 14, 2018 8:15 am

midareff wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 7:32 am
anything AMG
I'd submit a new AMG (especially anything other than a C63 or E63) is literally the opposite of a bogglehead muscle car. It's the car-guy version of paying Edward Jones a 2% AUM to buy loaded mutual funds :mrgreen:

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JMacDonald
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Re: Is there a boglehead muscle car?

Post by JMacDonald » Mon May 14, 2018 8:15 am

This website might give you some information on how a car you are interested in has been doing:
https://www.carcomplaints.com
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warowits
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Re: Is there a boglehead muscle car?

Post by warowits » Mon May 14, 2018 8:34 am

A Suburu WRX with snow tires.
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jeffG
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Re: Is there a boglehead muscle car?

Post by jeffG » Mon May 14, 2018 8:38 am

If it’s going to be a summer car, a C5 corvette is a good choice. You can get a immaculate, low mileage, 6 speed convertible for under $15K, have a 170 mph car that still gets 30 mpg on the highway. If you want something newer, 2011 or newer mustang Gt’s are good choices, just look for the garage Queen not the daily driver.

FlyAF
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Re: Is there a boglehead muscle car?

Post by FlyAF » Mon May 14, 2018 8:46 am

Don't buy a v6 mustang, camaro, or charger/challenger. Aside from being boring to drive, it will be completely worthless in a few years where as the v8 version should retain value pretty well.

Besides, everyone laughs at the guy driving a v6 camaro/mustang.

Ecorp
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Re: Is there a boglehead muscle car?

Post by Ecorp » Mon May 14, 2018 8:47 am

livesoft wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 7:27 am
I think it's a Tesla with Ludicrous Speed.

I suppose one day somebody will put a Mustang body on a Tesla frame.
Yes P90D. 700+ HP. will blow away alot of mustangs.

By Muscle I assume you mean American muscle and not European?

panhead
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Re: Is there a boglehead muscle car?

Post by panhead » Mon May 14, 2018 8:50 am

I rented a camaro ss convertible for a month and loved it, so if I was going new(er) I'd look into one of these. I love the challengers, but I'm a convertible guy.

My personal preference is the "real" musclecars from that era (American models, 60s to early 70s) and is what I personally own. The ones that I own get driven and driven fairly hard once in a while, as that is what they are for. I prefer non-matching number cars and/or well done 'clones' to the collectibles, as I want to have fun with them, and not pay too much for them. Cars like this can be had for anywhere between $5k to $25k with varying degrees of quality and very model dependent. Mopars in general are more expensive, with many Ford and GM models being very reasonable.

So, that being said I also like to wrench. If you don't, or don't have the space or tools to, then this might not be the best choice.

ad2007
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Re: Is there a boglehead muscle car?

Post by ad2007 » Mon May 14, 2018 8:51 am

ronteller11 wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 7:25 am
... more fuel efficient v6
Come on now, that's the antithesis of a muscle car.

To qualify your ride as a muscle car, you have to buy a reliable modern day 2 door coupe with a V8 from GM, Ford or Dodge. Upon delivery, start doing completely idiotic mods: like changing out the camshaft, ECU tune, add a supercharger or turbocharger, exhaust, suspension, whatever your budget will allow. In doing so, you'll render the car completely unreliable, horrible to drive... but fun as hell to play with in the garage.

Or just buy a classic muscle car.

ad2007
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Re: Is there a boglehead muscle car?

Post by ad2007 » Mon May 14, 2018 8:52 am

Oh, NASCAR runs the Camry.

I often see the Camry recommended, so that's it, That must be the Boglehead Muscle Car

Teague
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Re: Is there a boglehead muscle car?

Post by Teague » Mon May 14, 2018 8:54 am

jeffG wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 8:38 am
If it’s going to be a summer car, a C5 corvette is a good choice. You can get a immaculate, low mileage, 6 speed convertible for under $15K, have a 170 mph car that still gets 30 mpg on the highway. If you want something newer, 2011 or newer mustang Gt’s are good choices, just look for the garage Queen not the daily driver.
I'll second that - I've got one. Bought it with 125K on the odometer. Looks good and goes real quick-like. As noted above, if you can keep your right foot out of it, you'll get nearly 30MPG on the highway.
Semper Augustus

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El Greco
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Re: Is there a boglehead muscle car?

Post by El Greco » Mon May 14, 2018 8:57 am

Boglehead muscle car?

A 25 year old Toyota Camry with a spoiler.

CoAndy
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Re: Is there a boglehead muscle car?

Post by CoAndy » Mon May 14, 2018 9:06 am

I had a 2009 Pontiac G8 GT. Loved driving it. Unfortunately, Pontiac is no longer around. The same vehicle has been repackaged as the Chevy SS but I think it just got discontinued. Maybe look at getting a 2016.

pencap75
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Re: Is there a boglehead muscle car?

Post by pencap75 » Mon May 14, 2018 9:06 am

Not muscle, but used Infiniti G37 coupes are dirt cheap now.

330hp, pseudo luxury, japanese reliability. Terrible gas mileage, so thats the only anti-boglehead thing about it.

Frisco Kid
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Re: Is there a boglehead muscle car?

Post by Frisco Kid » Mon May 14, 2018 9:09 am

OP ends by saying looking for the appearance of a muscle car without the performance/noise so in reality OP is not looking for a muscle car at all but a boy racer trim package might fit the bill.....

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Re: Is there a boglehead muscle car?

Post by nisiprius » Mon May 14, 2018 9:14 am

I think it's about "investing advice inspired by Jack Bogle," not fashion or lifestyle advice.

But, of course, according to the Vanguard cost comparison tool, the savings on 0.15% expense ratio instead of 0.75%, for a year 2050 target-date fund, on a $500,000 portfolio, over 10 years, assuming 6% annual returns...

Image

..."could" create $51,593.93 more wealth, which is more than the difference between a Toyota Yaris and a Ford Mustang Shelby GT350.
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Pippen_001
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Re: Is there a boglehead muscle car?

Post by Pippen_001 » Mon May 14, 2018 9:23 am

Look into the Honda Civic Type R

wolf359
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Re: Is there a boglehead muscle car?

Post by wolf359 » Mon May 14, 2018 9:29 am

My Boglehead muscle car is a 2007 Honda Civic Hybrid. I measure my cars by their mileage, maintenance costs, and lack of impact to my budget. I have a friend with a similar car, and we bet on how high we can push the miles per gallon (The Hyper-miling Challenge).

I'd rather sink my spare funds into investing, not in a depreciating asset.

ALinLI
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Re: Is there a boglehead muscle car?

Post by ALinLI » Mon May 14, 2018 9:33 am

I own a Dodge charger RT with the V8. Great car , comfortable , fast , sounds great and looks aweseme. Dont care about the gas mileage so far has been solid would not worry about reliability , buy the car you want. It's my toy . :D

wilshuer
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Re: Is there a boglehead muscle car?

Post by wilshuer » Mon May 14, 2018 9:40 am

We just got a low mileage Challenger SRT8 - it is a fun car, true modern muscle car. Was a bit of a splurge, but we're doing well on the other finances and figured why not, it's time to live. DW is just going back to work, so she reallocated my bonus for me - and she's the bigger fan of it than me.

Now will probably need to start a speeding ticket fund.

stimulacra
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Re: Is there a boglehead muscle car?

Post by stimulacra » Mon May 14, 2018 9:47 am

Going with the “sleeper car” / millionaire next door angle… I would suggest that the recently discontinued Chevy SS would be the ideal boglehead muscle car.

You have a very nice old-school performance sedan that everyone thinks is a rental Malibu or Impala.

dsmclone
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Re: Is there a boglehead muscle car?

Post by dsmclone » Mon May 14, 2018 9:49 am

I've never heard a muscle car owner say "I really wish I would have gotten the smaller engine".

alfaspider
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Re: Is there a boglehead muscle car?

Post by alfaspider » Mon May 14, 2018 9:54 am

ad2007 wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 8:52 am
Oh, NASCAR runs the Camry.

I often see the Camry recommended, so that's it, That must be the Boglehead Muscle Car
NSACAR runs a tube frame race car with "Camry" written on it. The name is the only thing the race car has in common with the production car.

Silk McCue
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Re: Is there a boglehead muscle car?

Post by Silk McCue » Mon May 14, 2018 10:22 am

It certainly isn't a muscle car but driving my 2005 Honda S2000 is a blast and it looks good on the road.

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Sandtrap
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Re: Is there a boglehead muscle car?

Post by Sandtrap » Mon May 14, 2018 10:28 am

The perfect "Boglehead" muscle car has the right allocation between practicality, economy, and performance. With a higher allocation to performance per dollar for younger folks in the accumulation stage.

Thus, a used quick and spiffy Honda Civic or other performance compact.

The allocation changes as one approaches retirement with a smaller allocation to performance and greater emphasis on economy. So for those early seniors, a Toyota Prius.

Then, at the later stages of retirement, notwithstanding "lifestyle creep", the allocation glide slope would call for either a 100% electric vehicle such as a . . . Nissan Leaf,. . . a 40 volt Golf Cart, . . . or . . . a rechargeable "power chair".

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Mudd44
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Re: Is there a boglehead muscle car?

Post by Mudd44 » Mon May 14, 2018 10:58 am

I would love a V8, but considering I had a V6 2011 Camaro w 30k miles fall into my lap. I'm m good! My buddy sold it b/c the 300 go wasn't enough- he has 450 hp w/ the SS, but 7 years of payments. I paid $14,000 cash. I'm good! Not too concerned with people mocking the V6. A blast to drive

azanon
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Re: Is there a boglehead muscle car?

Post by azanon » Mon May 14, 2018 11:14 am

I drive a Mk6 VW GTI that I’ve taken to Stage 2+ using parts and software from Unitronic. It was quite a fun project to take a modestly priced sports car and make it so fast. GTIs go for mid 20s to mid 30s and my mods were about 8 grand including labor for everything.

NHRATA01
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Re: Is there a boglehead muscle car?

Post by NHRATA01 » Mon May 14, 2018 11:16 am

I'm sorry but if you're asking for a muscle car a Honda Civic or other "performance compact" really isn't going to cut it.

A boglehead muscle car is probably either a Mustang GT or Camaro SS (1SS trim), both which are pushing upwards of 450hp, rear drive and easy to find with a manual transmission. Bargain hunting and keeping the options down will allow access in the mid 30s. The Camaro particularly at times has a lot of cash on the hood. As there is a refreshed car coming out for '19, you can probably find some good deals on '18s soon (and personally I think the '19 refresh is far less handsome). A true bogglehead would probably scrounge for a deal on a used one and lower the price of entry to 20K or so.

To be honest, it's not really fair to call them muscle cars anymore. The cognoscenti will nit pick the definition of a muscle car ad naseum, but generally it's thought of as cheap straight line speed, fast from stoplight to stoplight and nothing more. The reality is both of those two are more than credible all around performance cars, as they can go fast, turn and stop with the best of them, including the high priced Germans like the M4 and AMG's. A far cry from when I bought my new (still owned) 2001 Trans Am that was full of compromises, and lacking in quality and comfort just to have a ton of power and a 6 speed at a newly hired engineer's affordability.

I can vouch for the Chevy SS Sedan being an excellent muscle car as I bought one, at a 20% discount. :) But as mentioned they are out of production as of 2017 and they are still holding very strong value on the used market, particularly the 6 speed cars. If you don't need 4 doors, the Camaro is a better deal and faster, if you do need 4 doors the 485hp Scat Pack Chargers can be had for well under 40 new.

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Alexa9
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Re: Is there a boglehead muscle car?

Post by Alexa9 » Mon May 14, 2018 11:20 am

I'd have to say Mustang GT. Maybe a Camaro. Dodge would have to be actively managed by your mechanic :mrgreen:

totallystudly
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Re: Is there a boglehead muscle car?

Post by totallystudly » Mon May 14, 2018 11:31 am

Nobody likes Corvettes I suppose... If I were to buy a muscle car that would be it. Holds a decent value, looks good and nice performance.

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Re: Is there a boglehead muscle car?

Post by ArmchairArchitect » Mon May 14, 2018 11:38 am

totallystudly wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 11:31 am
Nobody likes Corvettes I suppose... If I were to buy a muscle car that would be it. Holds a decent value, looks good and nice performance.
Corvettes aren't muscle cars. They're proper sports cars.

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Re: Is there a boglehead muscle car?

Post by VonRyan » Mon May 14, 2018 11:41 am

1996 Chevrolet Caprice.

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Re: Is there a boglehead muscle car?

Post by GoldenFinch » Mon May 14, 2018 11:59 am

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gundlached
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Re: Is there a boglehead muscle car?

Post by gundlached » Mon May 14, 2018 12:08 pm

warowits wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 8:34 am
A Suburu WRX with snow tires.
+1

bubbadog
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Re: Is there a boglehead muscle car?

Post by bubbadog » Mon May 14, 2018 12:11 pm

stimulacra wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 9:47 am
Going with the “sleeper car” / millionaire next door angle… I would suggest that the recently discontinued Chevy SS would be the ideal boglehead muscle car.

You have a very nice old-school performance sedan that everyone thinks is a rental Malibu or Impala.
The single best answer!

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Re: Is there a boglehead muscle car?

Post by Easy Rhino » Mon May 14, 2018 12:12 pm

I remember reading about some guys putting drag racing engines into a geo metro.

Buy that car.

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Re: Is there a boglehead muscle car?

Post by gundlached » Mon May 14, 2018 12:13 pm

El Greco wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 8:57 am
Boglehead muscle car?

A 25 year old Toyota Camry with a spoiler.
In "champagne" beige

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whodidntante
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Re: Is there a boglehead muscle car?

Post by whodidntante » Mon May 14, 2018 12:17 pm

I drive a mustang GT as my only car in a place where winter weather is measured by suicide rates. It is comfortable, quiet, has a good ride, and will do ridiculous antics when called upon. It is incredibly reliable for a rocket ship.

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Doom&Gloom
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Re: Is there a boglehead muscle car?

Post by Doom&Gloom » Mon May 14, 2018 1:11 pm

A boglehead muscle car is a Honda or a Toyota with an after-market spoiler and exhaust.

OTOH my view of being a Boglehead is to help enable one to be able to afford things and experiences that are important to them. If I really wanted a muscle car, I would check the financial implications to see if I could afford one and what effect the costs would have on my long-term plans. If those parameters checked out, I would shop for good value in something that would satisfy my needs.

What I would not do is settle for something short of what I really wanted or reach for something I could not afford. I would choose to defer that luxury until I didn't have to ask about "boglehead muscle cars" and could get what I wanted. Good luck in your search!

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Re: Is there a boglehead muscle car?

Post by alfaspider » Mon May 14, 2018 1:25 pm

Doom&Gloom wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 1:11 pm


What I would not do is settle for something short of what I really wanted or reach for something I could not afford. I would choose to defer that luxury until I didn't have to ask about "boglehead muscle cars" and could get what I wanted. Good luck in your search!
I suspect the OP would consider an economy car with an aftermarket muffler (commonly known in car circles as a "fart cannon") something short of what they really want.

Seeing as the OP is more interested in the look of a muscle car than the performance and cares about reliability, I submit an 3-5 year old v6 Mustang or Camaro is a cheap and relatively reliable way to do it. Pendants will call these "Pony Cars" but I submit they are close enough to what the OP is looking for. There's a reason why common cars are common.

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