Dealer sold me a Certified Vehicle invloved in a prior collision

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AKBTX14
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Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2014 2:46 pm

Dealer sold me a Certified Vehicle invloved in a prior collision

Post by AKBTX14 » Fri May 11, 2018 4:27 pm

I was getting new insurance quotes for my vehicles and one agent told me that my Certified Toyota Camry was involved in a collision on 08/03/2014 and the claim was $6500 (amount paid).

This just irritates me and I do not know what should be my course of action.

I have obtained CLUE file # and claim data from the insurance agent.

The car was originally sold and serviced by the same Toyota dealer.
08/21/2013 - sold to first owner
05/25/2014 - 5,000 miles service
01/07/2015 - 10,000 miles service
03/27/2015 - 12,000 miles offered for sale as certified Toyota vehicle
04/10/2015 - sold to me as certified "clean" vehicle

Has anyone been in a similar situation? Any attorneys here? I live in TX and the Camry was bought in TX as well. They even gave me Carfax report and told me it was a clean vehicle.

Regards

livesoft
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Re: Dealer sold me a Certified Vehicle invloved in a prior collision

Post by livesoft » Fri May 11, 2018 4:29 pm

Nothing wrong with Certified vehicles that have been in accidents. Indeed, accident history and CPO are two different things. One can buy a CPO vehicle for less money if it has an accident history no matter how minor.

I don't know what you mean by clean. Did you ask if it had been in an accident? Do you have paperwork that the dealer said it had not been in an accident? Clean to me means it went through a car wash and the title is not contested.
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N10sive
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Re: Dealer sold me a Certified Vehicle invloved in a prior collision

Post by N10sive » Fri May 11, 2018 4:38 pm

I think you might be qualified for a Carfax buyback guarantee but not sure what it entails.

AKBTX14
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Re: Dealer sold me a Certified Vehicle invloved in a prior collision

Post by AKBTX14 » Fri May 11, 2018 4:45 pm

Yes, I asked if the vehicle had been in any accident. I was given a Carfax report by the dealer (Carfax report states the dealer's name/address, Provided by the dealer. No accident/damage reported to Carfax). I still have the report.

The car could have been repaired by the same dealer. I don't know yet how to find that information. I remember seeing the name of the last owner somewhere, now I can't recall it. I had Googled the previous owner's name for the sake of curiosity and he was local person.

livesoft
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Re: Dealer sold me a Certified Vehicle invloved in a prior collision

Post by livesoft » Fri May 11, 2018 4:52 pm

I'm sorry, but I don't see where you confirmed that the dealer stated the car had not been in an accident. Giving you a Carfax report with no accident noted is not that same as the dealer stating that the car had not been in an accident.

Do you have teenagers? Have you listened to some of their statements that are not lies?
Example:
Did you go to Joe's house last night?
I went to Mary's house last night.
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randomguy
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Re: Dealer sold me a Certified Vehicle invloved in a prior collision

Post by randomguy » Fri May 11, 2018 4:55 pm

AKBTX14 wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 4:45 pm
Yes, I asked if the vehicle had been in any accident. I was given a Carfax report by the dealer (Carfax report states the dealer's name/address, Provided by the dealer. No accident/damage reported to Carfax). I still have the report.

The car could have been repaired by the same dealer. I don't know yet how to find that information. I remember seeing the name of the last owner somewhere, now I can't recall it. I had Googled the previous owner's name for the sake of curiosity and he was local person.
Or it could have been repaired some place else and the dealer had no clue. To some extent this is one of the risks of buying a used car. Checking the Carfax guarantee might be the way to go but i am not sure if you are covered.

Nate79
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Re: Dealer sold me a Certified Vehicle invloved in a prior collision

Post by Nate79 » Fri May 11, 2018 5:14 pm

So you have a Carfax report that doesn't list the accident? I'm not sure how normal this is but many accidents are not reported and do not end up on a Carfax report. The dealer likely only knows what is on the Carfax report and thus sounds like reported to you what they knew. Even if it was repaired in their shop doesn't mean that their sales side knew about it.

delamer
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Re: Dealer sold me a Certified Vehicle invloved in a prior collision

Post by delamer » Fri May 11, 2018 5:42 pm

Nate79 wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 5:14 pm
So you have a Carfax report that doesn't list the accident? I'm not sure how normal this is but many accidents are not reported and do not end up on a Carfax report. The dealer likely only knows what is on the Carfax report and thus sounds like reported to you what they knew. Even if it was repaired in their shop doesn't mean that their sales side knew about it.
My thoughts also.

Do you think that somehow the dealer manipulated the CarFax report?

Chicago60
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Re: Dealer sold me a Certified Vehicle invloved in a prior collision

Post by Chicago60 » Fri May 11, 2018 5:52 pm

If the dealer misrepresented the history of the car, you likely have a valid claim under your State's consumer fraud protection statute. Your State may also have a specific statute addressed to car dealers. You may want to consider finding a consumer attorney in your area.

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whodidntante
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Re: Dealer sold me a Certified Vehicle invloved in a prior collision

Post by whodidntante » Fri May 11, 2018 6:12 pm

I would be mad if I bought a Camry, too. But what is the tort?

Chicago60
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Re: Dealer sold me a Certified Vehicle invloved in a prior collision

Post by Chicago60 » Fri May 11, 2018 6:17 pm

The tort would be fraud. Representing the vehicle as "clean", which would suggest to this purchaser that there had been no material damage to the car. Maybe the OP asked about prior damage and was told there was none. In addition to common law fraud, as noted above, there may have been a violation of one or more Texas consumer statutes. Of course, more than 3 years have lapsed since OP purchased the vehicle, so the statute of limitations might be a factor.
Last edited by Chicago60 on Fri May 11, 2018 6:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ResearchMed
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Re: Dealer sold me a Certified Vehicle invloved in a prior collision

Post by ResearchMed » Fri May 11, 2018 6:19 pm

Chicago60 wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 5:52 pm
If the dealer misrepresented the history of the car, you likely have a valid claim under your State's consumer fraud protection statute. Your State may also have a specific statute addressed to car dealers. You may want to consider finding a consumer attorney in your area.
Does your state allow "triple damages" for consumer fraud?

If so, AND if you want your money back (and another car elsewhere), you might want to mumble something about this to the right person(s) at the dealer...

This assumes there *is* actual fraud that you can prove (or if the situation is close enough to worry the dealer).

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multiham
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Re: Dealer sold me a Certified Vehicle invloved in a prior collision

Post by multiham » Fri May 11, 2018 6:49 pm

My only question is who does the inspection and maintenance to have the car classified as CPO? IMHO if it is the selling dealer, their inspection of the vehicle would have uncovered that the car had been repaired.

Do agree that just because a car is CPO, that does not mean it was never in an accident.

arf1410
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Re: Dealer sold me a Certified Vehicle invloved in a prior collision

Post by arf1410 » Fri May 11, 2018 6:54 pm

In used car parlance, "clean" means clean title, which it was... unless it was a "salvage" title. If you didn't know that, unfortunately, you shouldn't have been buying a used car.

randomguy
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Re: Dealer sold me a Certified Vehicle invloved in a prior collision

Post by randomguy » Fri May 11, 2018 6:59 pm

Chicago60 wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 6:17 pm
The tort would be fraud. Representing the vehicle as "clean", which would suggest to this purchaser that there had been no material damage to the car. Maybe the OP asked about prior damage and was told there was none. In addition to common law fraud, as noted above, there may have been a violation of one or more Texas consumer statutes. Of course, more than 3 years have lapsed since OP purchased the vehicle, so the statute of limitations might be a factor.
It seems like you would have to prove 2 things
a) the dealer knew about the damage
b) the damage means the car isn't considered clean and shouldn't have been CPOed.

seems like both of those are likely to be hard to prove. The word clean might have a very specific meaning when selling a car. That meaning might not match your expectations. Read the description of a CPO car. I am not aware of any that mention things like not being in an accident. They all talk about fluff (best of the best), some x checkpoint, and the extended warranty period.

At a certain point you will need to decide if you want to talk to a local lawyer and see what they think your chances are and what the costs will be. You might end up be suing over a couple thousand dollars (diminished value). You also hit the dealer up and see if they have some policy on this. Maybe if it is the "honest mistake", toyota or the dealer has some way of making things right. I sort of doubt you will get anywhere though.

Barefoot
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Re: Dealer sold me a Certified Vehicle invloved in a prior collision

Post by Barefoot » Fri May 11, 2018 7:27 pm

Now you know how much value there is in a Carfax report that shows no accidents...

Jack FFR1846
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Re: Dealer sold me a Certified Vehicle invloved in a prior collision

Post by Jack FFR1846 » Fri May 11, 2018 7:36 pm

Listen to the following carefully......

CARFAX IS USELESS

Ever read what a carfax refund requires? It requires that an accident or other bad mark was reported to carfax and that this didn't show on the carfax report. So how are you going to prove that the accident was reported to them?

I have bought a car with a clean carfax. I knew by looking at it that the hood and at least one fender had been replaced. 2 years later, when selling it, the buyer mentioned the accident in Connecticut and that it looked like the repairs were done well.

The dealer may not have known by the carfax that the car had not been in an accident. But a competent auto body guy would absolutely be able to tell. Heck....I can tell and although I've painted some cars, I am far from an expert.

Now.....if the toyota definition of "Certified" is that the car had never been in an accident, you certainly could hold them to that and to make you whole either by compensating you or by trading the car for an identical model/year/options/mileage car that had NOT been in an accident.
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maroon
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Re: Dealer sold me a Certified Vehicle invloved in a prior collision

Post by maroon » Fri May 11, 2018 7:43 pm

Barefoot wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 7:27 pm
Now you know how much value there is in a Carfax report that shows no accidents...
This! Not all body shops report accidents to Carfax.
More info. here: https://oppositelock.kinja.com/how-carf ... 1639660981

I'm not sure how you can prove the dealer knew about the accident when the Carfax showed no accidents.
This is a risk in buying used cars, even certified used cars.

Also, see here: https://www.toyotacertified.com/certification
"Each candidate for certification can be a current model year vehicle, up to and including six year old models, with 85,000 miles or less on the odometer. Prior to the rigorous 160-point inspection every certified Toyota goes through, a CARFAX vehicle history report is reviewed to ensure that only the best of the best vehicles receive the Toyota Certified Seal of approval."

This does not say Toyota certifies that the car has never been in an accident, only that the CARFAX is reviewed...
Last edited by maroon on Fri May 11, 2018 7:54 pm, edited 2 times in total.

randomguy
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Re: Dealer sold me a Certified Vehicle invloved in a prior collision

Post by randomguy » Fri May 11, 2018 7:50 pm

Jack FFR1846 wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 7:36 pm
Listen to the following carefully......

CARFAX IS USELESS

Ever read what a carfax refund requires? It requires that an accident or other bad mark was reported to carfax and that this didn't show on the carfax report. So how are you going to prove that the accident was reported to them?

I have bought a car with a clean carfax. I knew by looking at it that the hood and at least one fender had been replaced. 2 years later, when selling it, the buyer mentioned the accident in Connecticut and that it looked like the repairs were done well.

The dealer may not have known by the carfax that the car had not been in an accident. But a competent auto body guy would absolutely be able to tell. Heck....I can tell and although I've painted some cars, I am far from an expert.

Now.....if the toyota definition of "Certified" is that the car had never been in an accident, you certainly could hold them to that and to make you whole either by compensating you or by trading the car for an identical model/year/options/mileage car that had NOT been in an accident.
https://www.toyotacertified.com/160-point-inspection

Note how they explicitly state that repairs are fine as long as they are "proper". CPO inspections are only slightly more valuable than car fax reports:)

AKBTX14
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Re: Dealer sold me a Certified Vehicle invloved in a prior collision

Post by AKBTX14 » Fri May 11, 2018 8:24 pm

I don't know what happened to my last post.

May be wrong choice of words to put "clean" in my first post. I did not mean a washed car and do understand clean vs. salvage title. :D

This is a great forum and people are extremely helpful and whole lot smarter and knowledgeable than me. You guys actually take time to search info to help each other.

I take that I didn't know for sure that cars involved in an accident can be sold as CPO. But, hey life is not that short to learn new facts! :idea:

But I did ask them if they knew if the car had any accident or flood damage etc. history. They gave me Carfax and told me this vehicle had been sold and serviced at their location. Of course there is a whole paragraph of fine print that works in their favor in such a scenario. If I had asked them to give me in writing, even then the "fine print" will work in their favor.

No worries. Life has much more than to loose sleep over some things some times.

Many regards to all of you :sharebeer

dknightd
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Re: Dealer sold me a Certified Vehicle invloved in a prior collision

Post by dknightd » Fri May 11, 2018 8:37 pm

AKBTX14 wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 4:27 pm
I was getting new insurance quotes for my vehicles and one agent told me that my Certified Toyota Camry was involved in a collision on 08/03/2014 and the claim was $6500 (amount paid).

This just irritates me and I do not know what should be my course of action.
I'd take a few deep breaths. Then not worry about it. I don't like to be irritated.

Nate79
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Re: Dealer sold me a Certified Vehicle invloved in a prior collision

Post by Nate79 » Fri May 11, 2018 8:53 pm

You could always go into the dealership and kindly complain and ask for something in return. Who knows, they may offer you some free oil changes or something.

KyleAAA
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Re: Dealer sold me a Certified Vehicle invloved in a prior collision

Post by KyleAAA » Fri May 11, 2018 11:52 pm

If you ask a used car dealer if a car is clean, you are referring to the title, not whether or not it’s been in an accident. You may have just asked the wrong question?

wfrobinette
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Re: Dealer sold me a Certified Vehicle invloved in a prior collision

Post by wfrobinette » Mon May 14, 2018 10:54 am

N10sive wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 4:38 pm
I think you might be qualified for a Carfax buyback guarantee but not sure what it entails.
I think you have to buy the carfax report to get the guarantee.

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