Used car, $20K-$25K

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Countermoon
Posts: 48
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:22 pm

Used car, $20K-$25K

Post by Countermoon » Thu May 10, 2018 2:54 pm

I know, I know, yet another car advice thread. Please humor me. :happy

I'm thinking about replacing my 2012 Toyota Prius this year. I've grown tired of the lack of performance, absurd levels of road and wind noise, and just overall boring feel of the car. The following qualities are what I'm looking for in a replacement:

-Quiet ride. Low road noise and NVH. This is a big one.
-Smooth engine, probably a V6.
-Larger than a Prius.
-A sedan, but would consider a hatchback that has a composed and quiet ride.
-Decent level of luxury: leather seats, heated seats (ventilated would be nice too), soft-touch surfaces, etc.
-Decent level of technology: A nice infotainment display, blind spot monitoring, parking sensors. I don't think I need the collision mitigation braking and other "newer" safety technologies, but I wouldn't turn them down. Android Auto would be great, but not necessary.
-MPG is not a major concern because I only drive around 10,000 miles per year. My commute is only 3 miles each way.
-AWD would be a decent perk but I recognize that snow tires are more important.

Right off the bat I'll say that I'm veering away from the Camry/Accord. I don't think they're going to meet the expectations I mentioned above. However, I'm pretty impressed with the value and features in the refreshed 2018 Sonata...it has almost everything I want, but I'm not sure about the ride quality and noise levels. Hyundais depreciate pretty quickly so one option I have is waiting one to two more years and picking up a discounted 2018 Sonata Limited.

Other options I've been thinking about: 2012-2014 Lexus ES or GS (a popular choice here, but the infotainment is an issue), 2017 Buick Lacrosse (good reviews, seems a little more youthful than Buicks of old, and they've already depreciated into my price range), 2011-2014 BMW 3 or 5 series (worried about reliability), 2016 Chevy Impala (interior looks cheap from photos).

Can anyone offer comments on the cars that I mentioned? If I'm missing some obvious choices, please chime in. Thank you all!

Jags4186
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Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2014 7:12 pm

Re: Used car, $20K-$25K

Post by Jags4186 » Thu May 10, 2018 2:59 pm

2015 Hyundai Genesis.

capjak
Posts: 44
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2017 8:58 am

Re: Used car, $20K-$25K

Post by capjak » Thu May 10, 2018 3:09 pm

[quote=Countermoon post_id=3921828 time=1525982088 user_id=42862

Right off the bat I'll say that I'm veering away from the Camry/Accord. I don't think they're going to meet the expectations I mentioned above. However, I'm pretty impressed with the value and features in the refreshed 2018 Sonata...it has almost everything I want, but I'm not sure about the ride quality and noise levels. Hyundais depreciate pretty quickly so one option I have is waiting one to two more years and picking up a discounted 2018 Sonata Limited.

Other options I've been thinking about: 2012-2014 Lexus ES or GS (a popular choice here, but the infotainment is an issue), 2017 Buick Lacrosse (good reviews, seems a little more youthful than Buicks of old, and they've already depreciated into my price range), 2011-2014 BMW 3 or 5 series (worried about reliability), 2016 Chevy Impala (interior looks cheap from photos).

Can anyone offer comments on the cars that I mentioned? If I'm missing some obvious choices, please chime in. Thank you all!
[/quote]

I have owned BMWs 3series (2013) and Lexus ES350 (2011) and they are very different cars. Both very reliable per consumer reports. The downside of BMW is cost of ownership, however if you get one that is certified and still has the original warranty and maintenance package (i.e. BMWs come with included all maintenance with exception of tires, includes brakes/wipers etc no very little cost first 4 years 50,000 miles). They have changed their new car program so you want to get a 2013-2016 with low miles and certified from dealer for the maintenance package. l had heads up display which was fun in the BMW (Tech Package). At 20K-25k you should be able to get a loaded 3 series. BMW 5 series go with the newer body style. Can not go wrong with the ES lexus, the GS is sportier but dependent on where you live will want AWD same with BMW 3 series otherwise snow tires in winter.

Based on your description the Lexus ES350 would fit I think the best although Buicks are very nice as well. The Buick Lacrosse or Regal (a little smaller) my bothers/sisters/father all drive Buicks and of course love them and claim never have any issues. The Lacrosse is very similar in ride to the Lexus ES350.

capjak
Posts: 44
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2017 8:58 am

Re: Used car, $20K-$25K

Post by capjak » Thu May 10, 2018 3:11 pm

Jags4186 wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 2:59 pm
2015 Hyundai Genesis.
These are very nice cars, especially if you can get a newer one for 20-25k.

delamer
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Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 6:13 pm

Re: Used car, $20K-$25K

Post by delamer » Thu May 10, 2018 3:15 pm

If BMWs are on your radar, then I’d also consider a used Audi A4.

It is purely personal preference, but I think the Audi interiors are nicer.

livesoft
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Re: Used car, $20K-$25K

Post by livesoft » Thu May 10, 2018 3:18 pm

Lexus RX350.

Why is infotainment a question? Get a better smart phone. That's cheaper than a car.
Wiki This signature message sponsored by sscritic: Learn to fish.

Jags4186
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Re: Used car, $20K-$25K

Post by Jags4186 » Thu May 10, 2018 3:29 pm

capjak wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 3:11 pm
Jags4186 wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 2:59 pm
2015 Hyundai Genesis.
These are very nice cars, especially if you can get a newer one for 20-25k.
I see about 10 examples of 2015 models within 100 miles of me on AutoTrader for under $23,000. That should sneak the OP in under $25k when you add in TTL. Best part is that since Hyundais come with 5 year, 60k mile warranties, you’d still have around 10-15k (sub 23k models all have around 40-45k miles on them) worth of factory warranty on a used car that goes for 50% of its brand new retail price and 60k or so factory drivetrain warranty. It’s a great deal. Next time I’m in the market I’m going to look at this vs. a new car.

H-Town
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Re: Used car, $20K-$25K

Post by H-Town » Thu May 10, 2018 3:54 pm

Lexus ES 350
Hyundai Genesis
BMW 3 series
Audi A4
Cadillac XTS

Test drive all of them. Don't forget to use an independent mechanic to check the car.

Traveler
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Re: Used car, $20K-$25K

Post by Traveler » Thu May 10, 2018 7:07 pm

Nissan Maxima?

rooms222
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Re: Used car, $20K-$25K

Post by rooms222 » Thu May 10, 2018 7:49 pm

This All Wheel Drive 2018 Chrysler 300 with 15,000 miles for $24,999.. https://www.enterprisecarsales.com/list ... gnid=promo

Drove 2500 miles in a rental, and it had leather, vented and heated seats, logical computer and entertainment system, and easy to use bluetooth.

The car was smooth and quiet, and my daughter thought the seats were the most comfortable and adjustable she had ever been in.

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Flymore
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Re: Used car, $20K-$25K

Post by Flymore » Thu May 10, 2018 8:01 pm

I like my 2012 (generation 8) Impala more than the generation 9 Impala. The generation 9 will probably be dropped next year, cars are no longer popular SUV's are. The 2016 Impala Limited is like mine, unfortunately, GM cheapened the interior by putting a plastic foam steering wheel :oops: on it instead of the nice leather-wrapped wheel I have. The Impala forum has the part number and steps to change the cheap foam steering wheel out with a new leather wrapped one you can buy from GMpartsdirect if you're so inclined.

ETadvisor
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Joined: Tue Jul 04, 2017 1:37 pm

Re: Used car, $20K-$25K

Post by ETadvisor » Thu May 10, 2018 8:10 pm

rooms222 wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 7:49 pm
This All Wheel Drive 2018 Chrysler 300 with 15,000 miles for $24,999.. https://www.enterprisecarsales.com/list ... gnid=promo

Drove 2500 miles in a rental, and it had leather, vented and heated seats, logical computer and entertainment system, and easy to use bluetooth.

The car was smooth and quiet, and my daughter thought the seats were the most comfortable and adjustable she had ever been in.
I do not mean to hijack the thread but I needed a loaner when my car was in the shop and they made me sign something that I would not smoke in the car along with the other usual paperwork. I am extremely sensitive to smoke and I smelled it when I drove it. The car was new, low miles, leather, all the bells and whistles but the fact a prior driver smoked in it was a deal-breaker. My question leads to that if I buy used (never did) how can I be assured to avoid this issue.

delamer
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Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 6:13 pm

Re: Used car, $20K-$25K

Post by delamer » Thu May 10, 2018 9:01 pm

ETadvisor wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 8:10 pm
rooms222 wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 7:49 pm
This All Wheel Drive 2018 Chrysler 300 with 15,000 miles for $24,999.. https://www.enterprisecarsales.com/list ... gnid=promo

Drove 2500 miles in a rental, and it had leather, vented and heated seats, logical computer and entertainment system, and easy to use bluetooth.

The car was smooth and quiet, and my daughter thought the seats were the most comfortable and adjustable she had ever been in.
I do not mean to hijack the thread but I needed a loaner when my car was in the shop and they made me sign something that I would not smoke in the car along with the other usual paperwork. I am extremely sensitive to smoke and I smelled it when I drove it. The car was new, low miles, leather, all the bells and whistles but the fact a prior driver smoked in it was a deal-breaker. My question leads to that if I buy used (never did) how can I be assured to avoid this issue.
You have to get in the car before you buy; that is the only way to be sure.

We went to check out a used car that we found online a few years ago. When we opened the door it was probably the worst smell I’d ever encountered. My best guess was the someone had been violently ill — as in extensive vomiting — in the car and the smell was still in the carpet and upholstery. That smell was enchanced by the chemical used to clean up the car. :annoyed

It was awful. I wouldn’t even get into the car, much less buy it.

sport
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Location: Cleveland, OH

Re: Used car, $20K-$25K

Post by sport » Thu May 10, 2018 9:28 pm

Take a look at a Toyota Avalon. I believe it meets your requirements.

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Alexa9
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Re: Used car, $20K-$25K

Post by Alexa9 » Thu May 10, 2018 9:36 pm

You said hatchback and it hasn't been mentioned yet so the Subaru Outback is a great vehicle with excellent AWD system. A real snow warrior.

rgs92
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Re: Used car, $20K-$25K

Post by rgs92 » Thu May 10, 2018 10:58 pm

2015-6 Acura RLX w/about 25K miles. Several in your price range on cars.com. Some are CPOs.

emoore
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Re: Used car, $20K-$25K

Post by emoore » Thu May 10, 2018 11:23 pm

Just a suggestion for something different. How about an electric car? Seems like that’s where a lot of countries and car companies are headed.

ssquared87
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Joined: Tue Apr 02, 2013 9:54 am

Re: Used car, $20K-$25K

Post by ssquared87 » Fri May 11, 2018 12:09 am

Mazda 6
New Accord (know you said you’re steering away from accord/Camry but the new accord has a far more upscale interior and features in the higher trim versions)

2011 Bmw 3 is spectacular. I had one that saved my life in a crash, It’s last year of the old generation and it’s better built and more fun to drive than the F30 generation that came after. BMW inline 6 engines are way smoother than any V6 will ever be because they are inherently balanced. The primary and secondary forces cancel each other out.

2014 Bmw 5 series can probably be found in that price range but keep away from the v8 with a 10 foot pole.

ssquared87
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Joined: Tue Apr 02, 2013 9:54 am

Re: Used car, $20K-$25K

Post by ssquared87 » Fri May 11, 2018 12:10 am

ssquared87 wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 12:09 am
Mazda 6
New Accord (know you said you’re steering away from accord/Camry but the new accord has a far more upscale interior and features in the higher trim versions)

2011 Bmw 3 is spectacular. I had one that saved my life in a crash, It’s last year of the old generation and it’s better built and more fun to drive than the F30 generation that came after. BMW inline 6 engines are way smoother than any V6 will ever be because they are inherently balanced. The primary and secondary forces cancel each other out.

2013-2014 Bmw 535i series can probably be found in that price range if you negotiate but keep away from the v8 with a 10 foot pole.

inbox788
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Re: Used car, $20K-$25K

Post by inbox788 » Fri May 11, 2018 2:28 am

Countermoon wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 2:54 pm
-A sedan, but would consider a hatchback that has a composed and quiet ride.
I only drive around 10,000 miles per year. My commute is only 3 miles each way.
Besides the Avalon someone else mentioned, the LS 460 is a prime candidate. You'll have to reach a little older model to meet your price point.

BTW, that's a lot of miles for a very short commute. Where or how do you put on all those non-commute miles?

bubbadog
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Re: Used car, $20K-$25K

Post by bubbadog » Fri May 11, 2018 4:45 am

Jags4186 wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 3:29 pm
capjak wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 3:11 pm
Jags4186 wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 2:59 pm
2015 Hyundai Genesis.
These are very nice cars, especially if you can get a newer one for 20-25k.
I see about 10 examples of 2015 models within 100 miles of me on AutoTrader for under $23,000. That should sneak the OP in under $25k when you add in TTL. Best part is that since Hyundais come with 5 year, 60k mile warranties, you’d still have around 10-15k (sub 23k models all have around 40-45k miles on them) worth of factory warranty on a used car that goes for 50% of its brand new retail price and 60k or so factory drivetrain warranty. It’s a great deal. Next time I’m in the market I’m going to look at this vs. a new car.
+2 One of the most overlooked great values out there. Depreciation works in your favor! Definitely needs to be considered.

Countermoon
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Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:22 pm

Re: Used car, $20K-$25K

Post by Countermoon » Fri May 11, 2018 8:18 am

inbox788 wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 2:28 am
Countermoon wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 2:54 pm
-A sedan, but would consider a hatchback that has a composed and quiet ride.
I only drive around 10,000 miles per year. My commute is only 3 miles each way.
Besides the Avalon someone else mentioned, the LS 460 is a prime candidate. You'll have to reach a little older model to meet your price point.

BTW, that's a lot of miles for a very short commute. Where or how do you put on all those non-commute miles?
The LS is really nice, I looked at some of the 2013s but they are still out of my price range. I remain amazed at how well Lexus vehicles hold their value. The commute is short but I drive a lot - to the tennis club, to the Adirondacks, the mall/grocery store/other errands, day trips, etc. That's one of the reasons I'm looking for a comfortable cruiser.

To all those who suggested the Genesis: excellent idea. I hadn't thought of this. I'm seeing a lot of them with low miles under $25K. I'll explore this further.

After further thought, a 3 Series or A4 doesn't seem like the best choice for me. Nice cars, but maintenance issues and size are steering me (no pun intended) to other options.

ssquared87
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Joined: Tue Apr 02, 2013 9:54 am

Re: Used car, $20K-$25K

Post by ssquared87 » Fri May 11, 2018 8:41 am

Countermoon wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 8:18 am
To all those who suggested the Genesis: excellent idea. I hadn't thought of this. I'm seeing a lot of them with low miles under $25K. I'll explore this further.

After further thought, a 3 Series or A4 doesn't seem like the best choice for me. Nice cars, but maintenance issues and size are steering me (no pun intended) to other options.
The genesis is a great car

Not sure about your other comment though? Why would you “steer” away from the A4 and 3 series when Audi and BMW have been amongst the most reliable brands over the last few years?

https://www.consumerreports.org/car-rel ... -stack-up/

Also, if you’re looking at Bmw, also consider the 5 series it has a totally different feel and character than the 3. 3 has a cheap interior but is very fun to drive. The 5 is a lot less fun but it’s significanlty more comfortable and uses far better quality materials on the interior.

Just note that there are so many options on both cars that the way it looks and drives depends entirely on the options. M-sport versions have much tighter suspensions so you feel the road more. In the 5 series there is an option for multi-contour seats which makes a huge difference in comfort. The type of leather it has also changes your impression of the car. Nappa leather on the 5 has a much richer feel than the same car with Dakota leather.

Don’t worry about the cost of all of this though because the well optioned cars don’t sell for all that much more on the used market. If you were buying new, you may need to spend 10-15k extra in options. When you get it used, you may pay 1.5-2.5k extra for a car with all the extras

A 2014 535i should be in your price range, and I see plenty of 2015 models in my area between 25-30k

delamer
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Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 6:13 pm

Re: Used car, $20K-$25K

Post by delamer » Fri May 11, 2018 10:49 am

ssquared87 wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 8:41 am
Countermoon wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 8:18 am
To all those who suggested the Genesis: excellent idea. I hadn't thought of this. I'm seeing a lot of them with low miles under $25K. I'll explore this further.

After further thought, a 3 Series or A4 doesn't seem like the best choice for me. Nice cars, but maintenance issues and size are steering me (no pun intended) to other options.
The genesis is a great car

Not sure about your other comment though? Why would you “steer” away from the A4 and 3 series when Audi and BMW have been amongst the most reliable brands over the last few years?

https://www.consumerreports.org/car-rel ... -stack-up/

Also, if you’re looking at Bmw, also consider the 5 series it has a totally different feel and character than the 3. 3 has a cheap interior but is very fun to drive. The 5 is a lot less fun but it’s significanlty more comfortable and uses far better quality materials on the interior.

Just note that there are so many options on both cars that the way it looks and drives depends entirely on the options. M-sport versions have much tighter suspensions so you feel the road more. In the 5 series there is an option for multi-contour seats which makes a huge difference in comfort. The type of leather it has also changes your impression of the car. Nappa leather on the 5 has a much richer feel than the same car with Dakota leather.

Don’t worry about the cost of all of this though because the well optioned cars don’t sell for all that much more on the used market. If you were buying new, you may need to spend 10-15k extra in options. When you get it used, you may pay 1.5-2.5k extra for a car with all the extras

A 2014 535i should be in your price range, and I see plenty of 2015 models in my area between 25-30k
But maintenance is expensive for the German luxury cars, relative to the mainstream brands, which I think is what OP was referring to (at least in part). We’ve used prepaid AudiCare to lower the cost of routine maintenance and that was a good decision. However, non-routine repairs still are expensive and unpredictable.

Not to mention the added cost of premium gas for any luxury car.

It is wise to look not just at the purchase price, but the ongoing costs (forgot to mention insurance).

lomarica01
Posts: 102
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Re: Used car, $20K-$25K

Post by lomarica01 » Fri May 11, 2018 10:52 am

we just got a 2017 kia credenza which replaced our 2007 es350. it is as nice as our old lexus inside but not quiet as smooth or quiet. I do not care for the new lexus style inside or outside at all. The Kia is a large car and very nice inside and got a great price at carmax. recommend getting a car with android auto or apple version.

ssquared87
Posts: 718
Joined: Tue Apr 02, 2013 9:54 am

Re: Used car, $20K-$25K

Post by ssquared87 » Fri May 11, 2018 10:57 am

delamer wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 10:49 am
ssquared87 wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 8:41 am
Countermoon wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 8:18 am
To all those who suggested the Genesis: excellent idea. I hadn't thought of this. I'm seeing a lot of them with low miles under $25K. I'll explore this further.

After further thought, a 3 Series or A4 doesn't seem like the best choice for me. Nice cars, but maintenance issues and size are steering me (no pun intended) to other options.
The genesis is a great car

Not sure about your other comment though? Why would you “steer” away from the A4 and 3 series when Audi and BMW have been amongst the most reliable brands over the last few years?

https://www.consumerreports.org/car-rel ... -stack-up/

Also, if you’re looking at Bmw, also consider the 5 series it has a totally different feel and character than the 3. 3 has a cheap interior but is very fun to drive. The 5 is a lot less fun but it’s significanlty more comfortable and uses far better quality materials on the interior.

Just note that there are so many options on both cars that the way it looks and drives depends entirely on the options. M-sport versions have much tighter suspensions so you feel the road more. In the 5 series there is an option for multi-contour seats which makes a huge difference in comfort. The type of leather it has also changes your impression of the car. Nappa leather on the 5 has a much richer feel than the same car with Dakota leather.

Don’t worry about the cost of all of this though because the well optioned cars don’t sell for all that much more on the used market. If you were buying new, you may need to spend 10-15k extra in options. When you get it used, you may pay 1.5-2.5k extra for a car with all the extras

A 2014 535i should be in your price range, and I see plenty of 2015 models in my area between 25-30k
But maintenance is expensive for the German luxury cars, relative to the mainstream brands, which I think is what OP was referring to (at least in part). We’ve used prepaid AudiCare to lower the cost of routine maintenance and that was a good decision. However, non-routine repairs still are expensive and unpredictable.

Not to mention the added cost of premium gas for any luxury car.

It is wise to look not just at the purchase price, but the ongoing costs (forgot to mention insurance).
Fair, but maintenance isn't all that much either. Oil changes on my 2011 BMW 328 were $79.95 and it was 15k miles between oil changes. My dad's Acura is $59.95 for an oil change and needs to be done every 5k miles. So the Acura basically costs $40 more and 2 additional service visits to archive the same thing as my old 3 series.

The difference in premium vs. regular gas is like 20c a gallon, so about $3 each fill up. If you get gas once a week you're talking $150 difference a year. Not to mention, a lot of non-premium cars require premium to, its not specific to Audi or BMW.

phage
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Re: Used car, $20K-$25K

Post by phage » Fri May 11, 2018 11:05 am

Another plug for the Genesis. We bought a 2012 in 2014 for $20K with 25,000 miles. Super quiet, delightful ride. It is big though.

finite_difference
Posts: 1043
Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2015 7:00 pm

Re: Used car, $20K-$25K

Post by finite_difference » Fri May 11, 2018 11:08 am

ssquared87 wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 10:57 am
delamer wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 10:49 am
ssquared87 wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 8:41 am
Countermoon wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 8:18 am
To all those who suggested the Genesis: excellent idea. I hadn't thought of this. I'm seeing a lot of them with low miles under $25K. I'll explore this further.

After further thought, a 3 Series or A4 doesn't seem like the best choice for me. Nice cars, but maintenance issues and size are steering me (no pun intended) to other options.
The genesis is a great car

Not sure about your other comment though? Why would you “steer” away from the A4 and 3 series when Audi and BMW have been amongst the most reliable brands over the last few years?

https://www.consumerreports.org/car-rel ... -stack-up/

Also, if you’re looking at Bmw, also consider the 5 series it has a totally different feel and character than the 3. 3 has a cheap interior but is very fun to drive. The 5 is a lot less fun but it’s significanlty more comfortable and uses far better quality materials on the interior.

Just note that there are so many options on both cars that the way it looks and drives depends entirely on the options. M-sport versions have much tighter suspensions so you feel the road more. In the 5 series there is an option for multi-contour seats which makes a huge difference in comfort. The type of leather it has also changes your impression of the car. Nappa leather on the 5 has a much richer feel than the same car with Dakota leather.

Don’t worry about the cost of all of this though because the well optioned cars don’t sell for all that much more on the used market. If you were buying new, you may need to spend 10-15k extra in options. When you get it used, you may pay 1.5-2.5k extra for a car with all the extras

A 2014 535i should be in your price range, and I see plenty of 2015 models in my area between 25-30k
But maintenance is expensive for the German luxury cars, relative to the mainstream brands, which I think is what OP was referring to (at least in part). We’ve used prepaid AudiCare to lower the cost of routine maintenance and that was a good decision. However, non-routine repairs still are expensive and unpredictable.

Not to mention the added cost of premium gas for any luxury car.

It is wise to look not just at the purchase price, but the ongoing costs (forgot to mention insurance).
Fair, but maintenance isn't all that much either. Oil changes on my 2011 BMW 328 were $79.95 and it was 15k miles between oil changes. My dad's Acura is $59.95 for an oil change and needs to be done every 5k miles. So the Acura basically costs $40 more and 2 additional service visits to archive the same thing as my old 3 series.

The difference in premium vs. regular gas is like 20c a gallon, so about $3 each fill up. If you get gas once a week you're talking $150 difference a year. Not to mention, a lot of non-premium cars require premium to, its not specific to Audi or BMW.
Changing oil every 15k miles is a pretty terrible idea based on my research. Did oil analysis support that interval? If you are using pure synthetic oil, I would argue you should still be doing it every 5-6k miles unless you really know what you are doing (and are testing.) And you should always use pure synthetic oil. But I’m an armchair oil geek now.

Also, premium is more like 25% more, not 20c. So instead of spending $10,000 in gas you’re spending $12,500. Not to mention probably worse mpg due to likely a more powerful engine and heavier chassis. Kind of still at the noise level and arguably worth it for a luxury vehicle though!
The most precious gift we can offer anyone is our attention. - Thich Nhat Hanh

ssquared87
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Joined: Tue Apr 02, 2013 9:54 am

Re: Used car, $20K-$25K

Post by ssquared87 » Fri May 11, 2018 11:16 am

finite_difference wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 11:08 am
ssquared87 wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 10:57 am
delamer wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 10:49 am
ssquared87 wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 8:41 am
Countermoon wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 8:18 am
To all those who suggested the Genesis: excellent idea. I hadn't thought of this. I'm seeing a lot of them with low miles under $25K. I'll explore this further.

After further thought, a 3 Series or A4 doesn't seem like the best choice for me. Nice cars, but maintenance issues and size are steering me (no pun intended) to other options.
The genesis is a great car

Not sure about your other comment though? Why would you “steer” away from the A4 and 3 series when Audi and BMW have been amongst the most reliable brands over the last few years?

https://www.consumerreports.org/car-rel ... -stack-up/

Also, if you’re looking at Bmw, also consider the 5 series it has a totally different feel and character than the 3. 3 has a cheap interior but is very fun to drive. The 5 is a lot less fun but it’s significanlty more comfortable and uses far better quality materials on the interior.

Just note that there are so many options on both cars that the way it looks and drives depends entirely on the options. M-sport versions have much tighter suspensions so you feel the road more. In the 5 series there is an option for multi-contour seats which makes a huge difference in comfort. The type of leather it has also changes your impression of the car. Nappa leather on the 5 has a much richer feel than the same car with Dakota leather.

Don’t worry about the cost of all of this though because the well optioned cars don’t sell for all that much more on the used market. If you were buying new, you may need to spend 10-15k extra in options. When you get it used, you may pay 1.5-2.5k extra for a car with all the extras

A 2014 535i should be in your price range, and I see plenty of 2015 models in my area between 25-30k
But maintenance is expensive for the German luxury cars, relative to the mainstream brands, which I think is what OP was referring to (at least in part). We’ve used prepaid AudiCare to lower the cost of routine maintenance and that was a good decision. However, non-routine repairs still are expensive and unpredictable.

Not to mention the added cost of premium gas for any luxury car.

It is wise to look not just at the purchase price, but the ongoing costs (forgot to mention insurance).
Fair, but maintenance isn't all that much either. Oil changes on my 2011 BMW 328 were $79.95 and it was 15k miles between oil changes. My dad's Acura is $59.95 for an oil change and needs to be done every 5k miles. So the Acura basically costs $40 more and 2 additional service visits to archive the same thing as my old 3 series.

The difference in premium vs. regular gas is like 20c a gallon, so about $3 each fill up. If you get gas once a week you're talking $150 difference a year. Not to mention, a lot of non-premium cars require premium to, its not specific to Audi or BMW.
Changing oil every 15k miles is a pretty terrible idea based on my research. Did oil analysis support that interval? If you are using pure synthetic oil, I would argue you should still be doing it every 5-6k miles unless you really know what you are doing (and are testing.) And you should always use pure synthetic oil. But I’m an armchair oil geek now.

Also, premium is more like 25% more, not 20c. So instead of spending $10,000 in gas you’re spending $12,500. Not to mention probably worse mpg due to likely a more powerful engine and heavier chassis. Kind of still at the noise level and arguably worth it for a luxury vehicle though!
15k miles is what is specified by BMW, its full synthetics. I was concerned as well, but blackstone reports have indicated the 15k mile interval is appropriate on my vehicle.

Premium at the costco near me in LA is $3.59, regular is $3.39. Chevron is $3.99 for premium and $3.79 for regular.

My 328 mileage wasn't great. I was getting about 28mpg highway, but it was before BMW switched to turbo, and it was 6MT so mileage wasn't as good as the current gen 8speed auto, and it was AWD so it was heavy. My 2017 530i is a bigger and heavier car, but I've been getting about 25mpg in stop and go city driving and on a road trip on pure highway I get anywhere between 33-36mpg. I think its mostly due to the 8sp auto transmission, turbo engine, and extremely low drag coefficient.

delamer
Posts: 6267
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 6:13 pm

Re: Used car, $20K-$25K

Post by delamer » Fri May 11, 2018 11:29 am

finite_difference wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 11:08 am
ssquared87 wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 10:57 am
delamer wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 10:49 am
ssquared87 wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 8:41 am
Countermoon wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 8:18 am
To all those who suggested the Genesis: excellent idea. I hadn't thought of this. I'm seeing a lot of them with low miles under $25K. I'll explore this further.

After further thought, a 3 Series or A4 doesn't seem like the best choice for me. Nice cars, but maintenance issues and size are steering me (no pun intended) to other options.
The genesis is a great car

Not sure about your other comment though? Why would you “steer” away from the A4 and 3 series when Audi and BMW have been amongst the most reliable brands over the last few years?

https://www.consumerreports.org/car-rel ... -stack-up/

Also, if you’re looking at Bmw, also consider the 5 series it has a totally different feel and character than the 3. 3 has a cheap interior but is very fun to drive. The 5 is a lot less fun but it’s significanlty more comfortable and uses far better quality materials on the interior.

Just note that there are so many options on both cars that the way it looks and drives depends entirely on the options. M-sport versions have much tighter suspensions so you feel the road more. In the 5 series there is an option for multi-contour seats which makes a huge difference in comfort. The type of leather it has also changes your impression of the car. Nappa leather on the 5 has a much richer feel than the same car with Dakota leather.

Don’t worry about the cost of all of this though because the well optioned cars don’t sell for all that much more on the used market. If you were buying new, you may need to spend 10-15k extra in options. When you get it used, you may pay 1.5-2.5k extra for a car with all the extras

A 2014 535i should be in your price range, and I see plenty of 2015 models in my area between 25-30k
But maintenance is expensive for the German luxury cars, relative to the mainstream brands, which I think is what OP was referring to (at least in part). We’ve used prepaid AudiCare to lower the cost of routine maintenance and that was a good decision. However, non-routine repairs still are expensive and unpredictable.

Not to mention the added cost of premium gas for any luxury car.

It is wise to look not just at the purchase price, but the ongoing costs (forgot to mention insurance).
Fair, but maintenance isn't all that much either. Oil changes on my 2011 BMW 328 were $79.95 and it was 15k miles between oil changes. My dad's Acura is $59.95 for an oil change and needs to be done every 5k miles. So the Acura basically costs $40 more and 2 additional service visits to archive the same thing as my old 3 series.

The difference in premium vs. regular gas is like 20c a gallon, so about $3 each fill up. If you get gas once a week you're talking $150 difference a year. Not to mention, a lot of non-premium cars require premium to, its not specific to Audi or BMW.
Changing oil every 15k miles is a pretty terrible idea based on my research. Did oil analysis support that interval? If you are using pure synthetic oil, I would argue you should still be doing it every 5-6k miles unless you really know what you are doing (and are testing.) And you should always use pure synthetic oil. But I’m an armchair oil geek now.

Also, premium is more like 25% more, not 20c. So instead of spending $10,000 in gas you’re spending $12,500. Not to mention probably worse mpg due to likely a more powerful engine and heavier chassis. Kind of still at the noise level and arguably worth it for a luxury vehicle though!
And, obviously, oil changes aren’t the only maintenance needed.

NHRATA01
Posts: 500
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2011 1:57 pm
Location: New York City area

Re: Used car, $20K-$25K

Post by NHRATA01 » Fri May 11, 2018 11:44 am

If you're looking for something more sporting, being you have the LaCrosse on there and aren't shied away from Buicks, what about the Regal GS instead? They have very bad depreciation so you can find a great deal. Also have transferrable 4/50 B2B and 6/72 powertrain warranties. Had a '12 myself which had a 270hp turbo 4, reasonably good pull, but handling and braking were stellar for a FWD sedan. A little tighter in the back vs. the LaCrosse though if you carry passengers. The '14-'17s had pretty nice bells and whistles, most of what you mentioned plus an LCD configurable gauge cluster and adjustable suspension. Also have AWD available.
Last edited by NHRATA01 on Fri May 11, 2018 1:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

dsmclone
Posts: 207
Joined: Fri Oct 25, 2013 8:50 am

Re: Used car, $20K-$25K

Post by dsmclone » Fri May 11, 2018 11:48 am

I just recently sold an Infniti M56x and it met all of your criteria. 420 hp V8 (21mpg premium). Reliable, fast, smooth ride, good tech, etc. Originally a $70k+ car and a good one can be bought for just above your price range. They are pretty rare and hard to find. Another option is the M37, which has a decent V6.

LawEgr1
Posts: 127
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2016 10:34 pm

Re: Used car, $20K-$25K

Post by LawEgr1 » Fri May 11, 2018 1:47 pm

Just bought a 2018 Sonata. Agree with you that the value is tremendous. Bought 2018 SE w/ tech package 21.5 OTD. Super happy with the purchase and if I didn't have a relatively new Taurus I'd get a second one for myself. Hours of research indicates for new cars (I understand you asked used) is that the Hyundai is extremely tough to beat with the tech offered at their price point.

I will comment on the following for you -

-Quiet ride. Low road noise and NVH. This is a big one.
I find the ride to be fine. Other vehicle is a Taurus, which is exceptionally quiet. The Sonata is very serviceable, however.
-Smooth engine, probably a V6.
We have the 2.4 GDI with 180 HP. Not what you're looking for, thus I cannot comment. No experience with the turbos from Hyundai. The 2.4 GDI is very serviceable and has a remarkably smooth 6 speed
-Larger than a Prius.
This car is remarkably spacious. The backseat is almost too large. It has more room in the back vs. the Taurus, the front has a ton of legroom.
Plenty of headroom. Thus, larger than a Prius.

-A sedan, but would consider a hatchback that has a composed and quiet ride.
Sedan - check
-Decent level of luxury: leather seats, heated seats (ventilated would be nice too), soft-touch surfaces, etc.
My opinion is the Limited version which can be had for 25k OTD currently has leather, heated and ventilated seats and would suit you very well
-Decent level of technology: A nice infotainment display, blind spot monitoring, parking sensors. I don't think I need the collision mitigation braking and other "newer" safety technologies, but I wouldn't turn them down. Android Auto would be great, but not necessary.
Bingo - another vote for the limited trim without the ULTIMATE package. The ultimate package adds emergency braking, adaptive cruise, lane assist and a ton of other items. We opted for the 2018 SE with the tech package which gave us all the updated safety systems without cost for leather, ventilated seats, etc. (it worked for us) Anyway - check out the limited package without the ultimate package, seems like that is your sweet spot. All Sonatas come with blind spot monitoring and rear cross traffic alert, which is a useful feature IMO
-MPG is not a major concern because I only drive around 10,000 miles per year. My commute is only 3 miles each way.
we went on a longer trip for a nice dinner and obtained 38 MPG back and forth highway driving 50-70 MPH for 1.5 hours. City is average, as expected.
-AWD would be a decent perk but I recognize that snow tires are more important.
We live in a snowy upper midwest state in a large metro. I've never been stuck in snow in my life and have never had 4wd or awd. Either: you don't drive, you leave work early to beat the storm, or you get snow tires. I don't think awd is necessary as you've pointed out. Nice to have? Sure, but not required.

Jack FFR1846
Posts: 7956
Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2013 7:05 am

Re: Used car, $20K-$25K

Post by Jack FFR1846 » Fri May 11, 2018 1:52 pm

If you do consider a Hyundai, look into whether the factory warranty will be valid for you. I remembered that they weren't in the past. Auto trader says:

Exceptions: Hyundai and Kia. Although Hyundai and Kia are well known for offering the best powertrain warranties in the industry -- 10 years or 100,000 miles -- these legendary warranties aren't transferable to a new owner.
Bogle: Smart Beta is stupid

FCM
Posts: 204
Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2009 7:28 pm

Re: Used car, $20K-$25K

Post by FCM » Sat May 12, 2018 7:01 am

I also just bought a 2018 Hyundai Sonata Limited model with all the safety features. The car's appearance, safety features, ergonomics, and the 5 year/60K miles warranty sold me. I've only driven it less than 100 miles so far (I'm retired), but so far I'm pleased, especially given that the price I paid was pretty good for what I got - just slightly over your $25K limit. My wife has a 2014 Subaru Outback.

GUMD
Posts: 23
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2016 8:49 pm

Re: Used car, $20K-$25K

Post by GUMD » Sat May 12, 2018 8:52 am

I just bought a 2015 Kia k900 with 50k miles for 24k. Basic warranty is still intact until 60k miles, but the car is in perfect condition. Only downside for you may be the v8, 420 HP. But you should test drive one, really is a nice car. Lots of room in the back for my two car seats.

finite_difference
Posts: 1043
Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2015 7:00 pm

Re: Used car, $20K-$25K

Post by finite_difference » Sun May 13, 2018 8:04 pm

ssquared87 wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 11:16 am
finite_difference wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 11:08 am
ssquared87 wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 10:57 am
delamer wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 10:49 am
ssquared87 wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 8:41 am


The genesis is a great car

Not sure about your other comment though? Why would you “steer” away from the A4 and 3 series when Audi and BMW have been amongst the most reliable brands over the last few years?

https://www.consumerreports.org/car-rel ... -stack-up/

Also, if you’re looking at Bmw, also consider the 5 series it has a totally different feel and character than the 3. 3 has a cheap interior but is very fun to drive. The 5 is a lot less fun but it’s significanlty more comfortable and uses far better quality materials on the interior.

Just note that there are so many options on both cars that the way it looks and drives depends entirely on the options. M-sport versions have much tighter suspensions so you feel the road more. In the 5 series there is an option for multi-contour seats which makes a huge difference in comfort. The type of leather it has also changes your impression of the car. Nappa leather on the 5 has a much richer feel than the same car with Dakota leather.

Don’t worry about the cost of all of this though because the well optioned cars don’t sell for all that much more on the used market. If you were buying new, you may need to spend 10-15k extra in options. When you get it used, you may pay 1.5-2.5k extra for a car with all the extras

A 2014 535i should be in your price range, and I see plenty of 2015 models in my area between 25-30k
But maintenance is expensive for the German luxury cars, relative to the mainstream brands, which I think is what OP was referring to (at least in part). We’ve used prepaid AudiCare to lower the cost of routine maintenance and that was a good decision. However, non-routine repairs still are expensive and unpredictable.

Not to mention the added cost of premium gas for any luxury car.

It is wise to look not just at the purchase price, but the ongoing costs (forgot to mention insurance).
Fair, but maintenance isn't all that much either. Oil changes on my 2011 BMW 328 were $79.95 and it was 15k miles between oil changes. My dad's Acura is $59.95 for an oil change and needs to be done every 5k miles. So the Acura basically costs $40 more and 2 additional service visits to archive the same thing as my old 3 series.

The difference in premium vs. regular gas is like 20c a gallon, so about $3 each fill up. If you get gas once a week you're talking $150 difference a year. Not to mention, a lot of non-premium cars require premium to, its not specific to Audi or BMW.
Changing oil every 15k miles is a pretty terrible idea based on my research. Did oil analysis support that interval? If you are using pure synthetic oil, I would argue you should still be doing it every 5-6k miles unless you really know what you are doing (and are testing.) And you should always use pure synthetic oil. But I’m an armchair oil geek now.

Also, premium is more like 25% more, not 20c. So instead of spending $10,000 in gas you’re spending $12,500. Not to mention probably worse mpg due to likely a more powerful engine and heavier chassis. Kind of still at the noise level and arguably worth it for a luxury vehicle though!
15k miles is what is specified by BMW, its full synthetics. I was concerned as well, but blackstone reports have indicated the 15k mile interval is appropriate on my vehicle.

Premium at the costco near me in LA is $3.59, regular is $3.39. Chevron is $3.99 for premium and $3.79 for regular.

My 328 mileage wasn't great. I was getting about 28mpg highway, but it was before BMW switched to turbo, and it was 6MT so mileage wasn't as good as the current gen 8speed auto, and it was AWD so it was heavy. My 2017 530i is a bigger and heavier car, but I've been getting about 25mpg in stop and go city driving and on a road trip on pure highway I get anywhere between 33-36mpg. I think its mostly due to the 8sp auto transmission, turbo engine, and extremely low drag coefficient.
Oh you’re in CA, which has perfect weather year round. No cold temps to mess up your oil. My research recommended to do a minimum of one oil change per year in spring if your oil was otherwise fine since the cold temps reduce the lifespan significantly. Otherwise every 6k miles. Interesting that you find via oil analysis that you can last 15k miles. That’s 24k kilometers. That’s impressive!!
The most precious gift we can offer anyone is our attention. - Thich Nhat Hanh

jadedfalcons
Posts: 192
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2017 8:55 pm

Re: Used car, $20K-$25K

Post by jadedfalcons » Sun May 13, 2018 8:14 pm

Chrysler 300S. You can get RWD or AWD. Very nice car 🚗, fast, and they depreciate a lot quickly, so you can easily fit one in your budget.

ssquared87
Posts: 718
Joined: Tue Apr 02, 2013 9:54 am

Re: Used car, $20K-$25K

Post by ssquared87 » Sun May 13, 2018 8:24 pm

finite_difference wrote:
Sun May 13, 2018 8:04 pm
ssquared87 wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 11:16 am
finite_difference wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 11:08 am
ssquared87 wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 10:57 am
delamer wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 10:49 am


But maintenance is expensive for the German luxury cars, relative to the mainstream brands, which I think is what OP was referring to (at least in part). We’ve used prepaid AudiCare to lower the cost of routine maintenance and that was a good decision. However, non-routine repairs still are expensive and unpredictable.

Not to mention the added cost of premium gas for any luxury car.

It is wise to look not just at the purchase price, but the ongoing costs (forgot to mention insurance).
Fair, but maintenance isn't all that much either. Oil changes on my 2011 BMW 328 were $79.95 and it was 15k miles between oil changes. My dad's Acura is $59.95 for an oil change and needs to be done every 5k miles. So the Acura basically costs $40 more and 2 additional service visits to archive the same thing as my old 3 series.

The difference in premium vs. regular gas is like 20c a gallon, so about $3 each fill up. If you get gas once a week you're talking $150 difference a year. Not to mention, a lot of non-premium cars require premium to, its not specific to Audi or BMW.
Changing oil every 15k miles is a pretty terrible idea based on my research. Did oil analysis support that interval? If you are using pure synthetic oil, I would argue you should still be doing it every 5-6k miles unless you really know what you are doing (and are testing.) And you should always use pure synthetic oil. But I’m an armchair oil geek now.

Also, premium is more like 25% more, not 20c. So instead of spending $10,000 in gas you’re spending $12,500. Not to mention probably worse mpg due to likely a more powerful engine and heavier chassis. Kind of still at the noise level and arguably worth it for a luxury vehicle though!
15k miles is what is specified by BMW, its full synthetics. I was concerned as well, but blackstone reports have indicated the 15k mile interval is appropriate on my vehicle.

Premium at the costco near me in LA is $3.59, regular is $3.39. Chevron is $3.99 for premium and $3.79 for regular.

My 328 mileage wasn't great. I was getting about 28mpg highway, but it was before BMW switched to turbo, and it was 6MT so mileage wasn't as good as the current gen 8speed auto, and it was AWD so it was heavy. My 2017 530i is a bigger and heavier car, but I've been getting about 25mpg in stop and go city driving and on a road trip on pure highway I get anywhere between 33-36mpg. I think its mostly due to the 8sp auto transmission, turbo engine, and extremely low drag coefficient.
Oh you’re in CA, which has perfect weather year round. No cold temps to mess up your oil. My research recommended to do a minimum of one oil change per year in spring if your oil was otherwise fine since the cold temps reduce the lifespan significantly. Otherwise every 6k miles. Interesting that you find via oil analysis that you can last 15k miles. That’s 24k kilometers. That’s impressive!!
Yep, sadly no cold temps. I actually miss the changing of the seasons that I had back in NY and as strange as it sounds, sun all the time does get played out after a while.

I'll PM you in a few weeks...I've got to change the oil on my 98 M3 and I'm going to send it in for analysis at Blackstone, curious what they find out. The car has 150k miles and this one will be about 5-6k since my last oil change. The car's oil monitor says I can go longer, but it's been a year since my last change and I change it out at a year no matter what the mileage has been.

SeaToTheBay
Posts: 109
Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2017 6:11 pm

Re: Used car, $20K-$25K

Post by SeaToTheBay » Mon May 14, 2018 12:58 pm

I like the Genesis idea. Lots of car for the $.

User avatar
Socrates28
Posts: 108
Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 10:27 pm

Just me, I'd stay away fro Buick and Chevy

Post by Socrates28 » Mon May 14, 2018 7:29 pm

Not sure why you don't like Honda Accord....and Camry are both very nice and hold their value and very easy to maintain. Super easy to drive and will last a lifetime. High end Accords are very nice. I also highly recommend Lexus (Toyota upgrade), but you will not find low mileage car for $20-25).

You could go BMW or Mercedes, but they are very expensive to maintain and will be high mileage also.

User avatar
BogleFanGal
Posts: 202
Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2017 6:59 pm

Re: Used car, $20K-$25K

Post by BogleFanGal » Mon May 14, 2018 9:45 pm

Take a look at the 2016 Buick Verano Turbo - there are some very low mileage personal leases loaded with options priced in high teens/very low '20s. The verano rides so smooth, and has triple insulated glass - VERY quiet. We bought the base engine - which most critics hated and said lagged (we're fine with it personally), but most praised the turbo as a fantastic performer and good on gas for a turbo. The car is in the luxury compact class, very nice interiors with most trims including a lot of the safety options you seek. We think it's a really nice car for the money and it gets high reliability ratings from Consumer Reports and others.

The biggest downside is poor gas mileage overall when compared against other compacts in its class, but you did mention that wasn't super important. We're very happy with the car.

User avatar
Sasquatch
Posts: 239
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Re: Used car, $20K-$25K

Post by Sasquatch » Mon May 14, 2018 9:59 pm

Lexus ES or LS

Or.......

Camry or Avalon XLE package

Countermoon
Posts: 48
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:22 pm

Re: Used car, $20K-$25K

Post by Countermoon » Thu May 17, 2018 1:46 pm

Thanks for the input folks. I've done a lot of research on the 2015 Genesis and it appears to be a great car. I'll be test driving one this weekend. That said, I'm still considering a 2018 Sonata Limited. I have a feeling that if I wait a few months, Hyundai will have one of their blowout rebate offers/sales and I can get the Sonata for even less than a Genesis. Obviously it's not as luxurious but it's still a nice vehicle.

If I don't do that, I'll go the used Genesis route. I have a feeling that CPO 2015s will start popping up everywhere as we get further into 2018, which I hope will depress the prices a bit. Seeing a lot of 2015s with the Technology package in the $25-$28K range, which is a bit more than I'd like to pay.

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