Should reliability rankings eliminate Jeep Grand Cherokee?

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michaeljc70
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Should reliability rankings eliminate Jeep Grand Cherokee?

Post by michaeljc70 » Wed May 02, 2018 12:59 pm

We need to replace an old vehicle and a used (2016 most likely) Jeep Grand Cherokee is on our radar. The vehicle would most likely be out of warranty (except powertrain). I owned a JGC for 13 years until 3 years ago and had almost no problem with it. When I look at JD Power and Consumer Reports rating on reliability, Jeep comes in toward the bottom. There is not really a Toyota or Honda that is comparable (spouse is picky about look of vehicles so eyes will most likely be rolled at your other vehicle picks). The Ford Explorer we don't like as much looks wise and they are coming in at around $10k more for a comparable model. Opinions?

Just to add some info, they seem to be around $24k for a 2015-2016 AWD Limited with 40-50k miles. We did test drive a new one and it was around $43k sticker and TrueCar lists $38k.

bloom2708
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Re: Should reliability rankings eliminate Jeep Grand Cherokee?

Post by bloom2708 » Wed May 02, 2018 1:15 pm

Each vehicle is unique. You may get another with zero issues or get a near lemon. Your driving style has some effect. I cannot believe how hard some people drive their vehicles. Little 4 cylinders and just flooring them off the line, hard braking. Driving patterns would only be one factor in reliability.

I think you should expect it to be somewhat less reliable than comparable vehicles in that class. The Grand Cherokee is a 2 row vehicle. Seats 5. Hard to compare to a 3 row Explorer, Highlander, Pilot. Ford Edge would be a direct comparison. GMC Terrain is another you could compare to. 4Runner is a bit larger.

CRV, Rav4, Escape are more on the smaller side but could be considered competitors.

Millions buy Grand Cherokees so I do not think you would be crazy to buy one if you like the style/features and price. No right or wrong answers with cars, just personal experience and knowing the options.
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mega317
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Re: Should reliability rankings eliminate Jeep Grand Cherokee?

Post by mega317 » Wed May 02, 2018 1:19 pm

Reliability would eliminate it for me.

Highlander and Pilot are pretty similar in most ways. How about a Traverse? What are you using it for? Would a smaller SUV or wagon work?

If looks are that important to spouse and Grand Cherokee fits the bill, then you're probably wasting your time even asking.

rkhusky
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Re: Should reliability rankings eliminate Jeep Grand Cherokee?

Post by rkhusky » Wed May 02, 2018 1:26 pm

Reliability rankings don't mean very much. What is important is the difference in the reliability. 30 years ago, there were wide gaps in reliability. Most car companies have now substantially closed the gaps in reliability.

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Re: Should reliability rankings eliminate Jeep Grand Cherokee?

Post by Jack FFR1846 » Wed May 02, 2018 1:49 pm

You can mitigate the reliability potential problems with a CPO warranty from the dealer. This way, you are covered when the transmission falls out of the bottom of the vehicle. Pick a dealer who is convenient to you and has a good policy of free loaners.

Jeeps and some Rovers are sold to people who have an honest need for difficult condition travel. I've owned an Explorer and several Wranglers and when it snows, you might as well consider the explorer to be a Ferrari. You're going nowhere. The Grand Cherokee has killer amounts of ground clearance and real AWD systems to get through adverse conditions.

I own a Wrangler which is one of the worst vehicles for reliability, it's the crudest vehicle on earth and heck.....anyone can steal the battery and spare with few tools because the hood doesn't lock and the spare's bolted in an easily stolen place. But I snowplow my driveway and am a shade tree mechanic so my Wrangler hasn't seen the dealer since I bought it.

I don't know if it's the case with Grand Cherokees, but I ordered my Wrangler new. The price I paid was lower than any 3 year old used Wranglers I found within 50 miles of me (includes Boston and Worcester, MA). They hold their value better than anything. Again....not sure if Grand Cherokees are the same.
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fortfun
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Re: Should reliability rankings eliminate Jeep Grand Cherokee?

Post by fortfun » Wed May 02, 2018 1:53 pm

My parents had a Jeep Grand Cherokee when I was growing up. It was towed more miles than it was driven. That's why I drive a Toyota Highlander today :)

unstartable
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Re: Should reliability rankings eliminate Jeep Grand Cherokee?

Post by unstartable » Wed May 02, 2018 1:58 pm

rkhusky wrote:
Wed May 02, 2018 1:26 pm
Reliability rankings don't mean very much. What is important is the difference in the reliability. 30 years ago, there were wide gaps in reliability. Most car companies have now substantially closed the gaps in reliability.
This. Buy the vehicle you like the most that meets your needs at a price that is reasonable to you.

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Re: Should reliability rankings eliminate Jeep Grand Cherokee?

Post by mountain-lion » Wed May 02, 2018 2:00 pm

Across the industry, cars are much more reliable than they were sixteen years ago. By pretty much every measure.

If I do my math right, your old jeep was a 2000, and now you are looking at a 2016.

Jeep's reliability was below the industry average in 2006, and was also below the industry average in 2016. But the industry average has gotten remarkably better over time. This shows up in any statistic you care to look at.

JD Power Initial Quality surveys don't go back to 2000, but let's compare 2006 to 2016, problems are per 100 vehicles--lower is better.

Code: Select all

        Jeep   Toyota    Honda   Average
2006    264    179       194      227
2016    181    113       126      152
One can expect that a 2016 Jeep to be substantially better than the 2006 industry average, and as good as the legendarily reliable 2006 Honda or Toyota. If you thought that a 2006 Honda would have been adequately reliable, then you have every reason to believe that this 2016 Jeep will be.

Of course, every car is different, and you could get a lemon, but statistically, you are more likely than ever to get a solidly reliable car, regardless of brand.

If you don't find JD Power stats convincing, then literally every other reliability statistic also shows this. For example, the average age of a car on the road in 2000 was 8.9 years. Today it is 11.6 years.

You may want the most reliable car possible, in which case you should buy a Lexus or Porsche (yes, that is what the data show). Or you may find that a certain minimum reliability is acceptable. If you have fond memories of how reliable that old Jeep was, and think that would be acceptable, then the odds are very good that the 2016 is better.

There are never guarantees, but that is the state of the world today. The odds are just very, very good that any car you choose will be more reliable than any car you owned ten years ago.

quantAndHold
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Re: Should reliability rankings eliminate Jeep Grand Cherokee?

Post by quantAndHold » Wed May 02, 2018 2:08 pm

The one time I bought a used car that was towards the bottom of the Consumer Reports reliability rankings, I paid for it. Not in money so much, because I also bought an extended warranty. But the thing was constantly in the shop. The second that extended warranty expired, I sold my problem to some poor unsuspecting soul.

Jeeps are fantastic if you are actually going to use it off road. But other than that, they’re pretty terrible cars, not just because of reliability. Wife likes the way they look wouldn’t be a good enough reason for me to buy one.

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Re: Should reliability rankings eliminate Jeep Grand Cherokee?

Post by michaeljc70 » Wed May 02, 2018 2:13 pm

mountain-lion wrote:
Wed May 02, 2018 2:00 pm
Across the industry, cars are much more reliable than they were sixteen years ago. By pretty much every measure.

If I do my math right, your old jeep was a 2000, and now you are looking at a 2016.

Jeep's reliability was below the industry average in 2006, and was also below the industry average in 2016. But the industry average has gotten remarkably better over time. This shows up in any statistic you care to look at.

JD Power Initial Quality surveys don't go back to 2000, but let's compare 2006 to 2016, problems are per 100 vehicles--lower is better.

Code: Select all

        Jeep   Toyota    Honda   Average
2006    264    179       194      227
2016    181    113       126      152
One can expect that a 2016 Jeep to be substantially better than the 2006 industry average, and as good as the legendarily reliable 2006 Honda or Toyota. If you thought that a 2006 Honda would have been adequately reliable, then you have every reason to believe that this 2016 Jeep will be.

Of course, every car is different, and you could get a lemon, but statistically, you are more likely than ever to get a solidly reliable car, regardless of brand.

If you don't find JD Power stats convincing, then literally every other reliability statistic also shows this. For example, the average age of a car on the road in 2000 was 8.9 years. Today it is 11.6 years.

You may want the most reliable car possible, in which case you should buy a Lexus or Porsche (yes, that is what the data show). Or you may find that a certain minimum reliability is acceptable. If you have fond memories of how reliable that old Jeep was, and think that would be acceptable, then the odds are very good that the 2016 is better.

There are never guarantees, but that is the state of the world today. The odds are just very, very good that any car you choose will be more reliable than any car you owned ten years ago.
Thanks for the figures. I had a 2001. That was along the lines of my thinking. I think it is reliable enough given the situation. Unlike me, spouse is not a facts and figures kind of person and more interested in how it looks and drives. I've been shot down on several suggestions like the Highlander and Pilot. Take the Highlander. Very reliable. But how will the premium you pay over the Jeep compare to the potential repair costs on the Jeep? It is not comparing apples to apples. The Highlander runs about $10k-$13k more for a comparable year/mileage/equipped model. The Highlander holds its value better, but probably irrelevant since we will probably drive it into the ground.

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fortfun
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Re: Should reliability rankings eliminate Jeep Grand Cherokee?

Post by fortfun » Wed May 02, 2018 3:08 pm

[/quote]

Thanks for the figures. I had a 2001. That was along the lines of my thinking. I think it is reliable enough given the situation. Unlike me, spouse is not a facts and figures kind of person and more interested in how it looks and drives. I've been shot down on several suggestions like the Highlander and Pilot. Take the Highlander. Very reliable. But how will the premium you pay over the Jeep compare to the potential repair costs on the Jeep? It is not comparing apples to apples. The Highlander runs about $10k-$13k more for a comparable year/mileage/equipped model. The Highlander holds its value better, but probably irrelevant since we will probably drive it into the ground.
[/quote]

If you are going to drive it into the ground, I'd go with the Highlander for sure. I think it will last significantly longer and spend less time in the shop.

michaeljc70
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Re: Should reliability rankings eliminate Jeep Grand Cherokee?

Post by michaeljc70 » Wed May 02, 2018 3:13 pm

fortfun wrote:
Wed May 02, 2018 3:08 pm
Thanks for the figures. I had a 2001. That was along the lines of my thinking. I think it is reliable enough given the situation. Unlike me, spouse is not a facts and figures kind of person and more interested in how it looks and drives. I've been shot down on several suggestions like the Highlander and Pilot. Take the Highlander. Very reliable. But how will the premium you pay over the Jeep compare to the potential repair costs on the Jeep? It is not comparing apples to apples. The Highlander runs about $10k-$13k more for a comparable year/mileage/equipped model. The Highlander holds its value better, but probably irrelevant since we will probably drive it into the ground.
[/quote]

If you are going to drive it into the ground, I'd go with the Highlander for sure. I think it will last significantly longer and spend less time in the shop.
[/quote]

They don't want a Highlander! They won't drive a Highlander! Reliability is just one factor to consider when buying a car. They don't like the way Toyotas and Hondas look or drive. The Prius is one of the ugliest cars ever made. A Camry is so boring. They'd rather have a less reliable car than be miserable every day with a very reliable car you pay a premium for that they don't want. If Hondas and Toyotas were for everyone, there wouldn't be dozens of other brands of cars. There are other cars reliable that aren't Hondas and Toyotas. I am little worried about being at the bottom of the reliability pack though.

randomguy
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Re: Should reliability rankings eliminate Jeep Grand Cherokee?

Post by randomguy » Wed May 02, 2018 3:21 pm

mountain-lion wrote:
Wed May 02, 2018 2:00 pm
Across the industry, cars are much more reliable than they were sixteen years ago. By pretty much every measure.

If I do my math right, your old jeep was a 2000, and now you are looking at a 2016.

Jeep's reliability was below the industry average in 2006, and was also below the industry average in 2016. But the industry average has gotten remarkably better over time. This shows up in any statistic you care to look at.

JD Power Initial Quality surveys don't go back to 2000, but let's compare 2006 to 2016, problems are per 100 vehicles--lower is better.

Code: Select all

        Jeep   Toyota    Honda   Average
2006    264    179       194      227
2016    181    113       126      152
One can expect that a 2016 Jeep to be substantially better than the 2006 industry average, and as good as the legendarily reliable 2006 Honda or Toyota. If you thought that a 2006 Honda would have been adequately reliable, then you have every reason to believe that this 2016 Jeep will be.

Of course, every car is different, and you could get a lemon, but statistically, you are more likely than ever to get a solidly reliable car, regardless of brand.

If you don't find JD Power stats convincing, then literally every other reliability statistic also shows this. For example, the average age of a car on the road in 2000 was 8.9 years. Today it is 11.6 years.

You may want the most reliable car possible, in which case you should buy a Lexus or Porsche (yes, that is what the data show). Or you may find that a certain minimum reliability is acceptable. If you have fond memories of how reliable that old Jeep was, and think that would be acceptable, then the odds are very good that the 2016 is better.

There are never guarantees, but that is the state of the world today. The odds are just very, very good that any car you choose will be more reliable than any car you owned ten years ago.
Initial quality stats have almost nothing to do with long term reliability. It is one thing I assemble something properly. It is another for it to stay that way for 15 years/200k miles. As far as I know there are no good stats for cost of repairs in years 7-15 out there.

And a CPO is of limited use. It gets you from say year 3 to 7 but those are still low mileage/high reliability years.

But for couple thousand dollars buy what you like. Odds things will work out.

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Alexa9
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Re: Should reliability rankings eliminate Jeep Grand Cherokee?

Post by Alexa9 » Wed May 02, 2018 3:54 pm

Dear Prudence,

I am worried about reliability but don't think Honda or Toyota are purdy. Please help...

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fortfun
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Re: Should reliability rankings eliminate Jeep Grand Cherokee?

Post by fortfun » Wed May 02, 2018 6:11 pm

michaeljc70 wrote:
Wed May 02, 2018 3:13 pm
fortfun wrote:
Wed May 02, 2018 3:08 pm
Thanks for the figures. I had a 2001. That was along the lines of my thinking. I think it is reliable enough given the situation. Unlike me, spouse is not a facts and figures kind of person and more interested in how it looks and drives. I've been shot down on several suggestions like the Highlander and Pilot. Take the Highlander. Very reliable. But how will the premium you pay over the Jeep compare to the potential repair costs on the Jeep? It is not comparing apples to apples. The Highlander runs about $10k-$13k more for a comparable year/mileage/equipped model. The Highlander holds its value better, but probably irrelevant since we will probably drive it into the ground.
If you are going to drive it into the ground, I'd go with the Highlander for sure. I think it will last significantly longer and spend less time in the shop.
[/quote]

They don't want a Highlander! They won't drive a Highlander! Reliability is just one factor to consider when buying a car. They don't like the way Toyotas and Hondas look or drive. The Prius is one of the ugliest cars ever made. A Camry is so boring. They'd rather have a less reliable car than be miserable every day with a very reliable car you pay a premium for that they don't want. If Hondas and Toyotas were for everyone, there wouldn't be dozens of other brands of cars. There are other cars reliable that aren't Hondas and Toyotas. I am little worried about being at the bottom of the reliability pack though.
[/quote]

I agree about Prius :) The 4Runner might have the look your family is after.

btenny
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Re: Should reliability rankings eliminate Jeep Grand Cherokee?

Post by btenny » Wed May 02, 2018 6:52 pm

Your wife is right the Jeep Grand Cherokee is just cool and a great SUV. No other car SUV offers similar functionality. I own one now and used to own two. I will probably buy a third this summer They are just unbeatable for driving in bad weather with big snow or towing big boats or going out in the boon docks. Both of mine were rock solid reliability until over 100K miles. In fact my current 1999 JGC has 120K miles and I have only done $3K or so in repairs since new. I think that is great for 16 years of service.

So go and buy her a good reliable JGC. It really is a do everything SUV.

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Re: Should reliability rankings eliminate Jeep Grand Cherokee?

Post by Bacchus01 » Wed May 02, 2018 7:03 pm

I’m on my 4th JGC. Had a ‘93 Limited with the 4.0 and Selectrac, a ‘97 Laredo with 4.0 and Quadratrac, a 2007 Limited with the Hemi and now a 2017 Trailhawk. All of them have been fantastic vehicles. The first two I sold at 150-170k miles, the 2007 was traded with around 110k miles and the 2017 has just over 25K miles now.

I would characterize my service costs as extremely low with no major issues ever.

One word of caution, the new ones with the V6 and 8 speed transmission are rated for 27mpg Highway. That’s only possible I’d you get out and do exactly 65moh. I have a 110 miles commute daily and I see barely above 20mpg, but my speeds are often 70-80 mph.

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Re: Should reliability rankings eliminate Jeep Grand Cherokee?

Post by lazydavid » Wed May 02, 2018 7:04 pm

The current JGC has been pretty solid, except for the 2014 model year. It was plagued with tons of defects, the majority of which were corrected from the 2014.5 model onward. Interior on the upper trim levels positively shames vehicles like the Highlander and Pilot, and out-luxes the Lexus RX and Acura MDX quite handily as well. I personally would have no qualms about buying one.
Bacchus01 wrote:
Wed May 02, 2018 7:03 pm
I’m on my 4th JGC. Had a ‘93 Limited with the 4.0 and Selectrac, a ‘97 Laredo with 4.0 and Quadratrac
I miss the 4.0L straight-six. Fuel economy was abysmal, but that engine just will not die no matter how ruthlessly you abuse it.
Last edited by lazydavid on Wed May 02, 2018 7:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Bacchus01
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Re: Should reliability rankings eliminate Jeep Grand Cherokee?

Post by Bacchus01 » Wed May 02, 2018 7:07 pm

quantAndHold wrote:
Wed May 02, 2018 2:08 pm
The one time I bought a used car that was towards the bottom of the Consumer Reports reliability rankings, I paid for it. Not in money so much, because I also bought an extended warranty. But the thing was constantly in the shop. The second that extended warranty expired, I sold my problem to some poor unsuspecting soul.

Jeeps are fantastic if you are actually going to use it off road. But other than that, they’re pretty terrible cars, not just because of reliability. Wife likes the way they look wouldn’t be a good enough reason for me to buy one.
While the off road comment is true, they are also the best driving vehicle in snow. I live in Wisconsin. Driving in snow in the Jeep is so smooth that it’s almost like there is no snow. Also, the JGC has one of the highest tow ratings for a V6 Mid-size SUV. Oh, and for a comparably equipped vehicle, it’s cheaper.

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Re: Should reliability rankings eliminate Jeep Grand Cherokee?

Post by mountain-lion » Wed May 02, 2018 7:13 pm

Initial quality stats have almost nothing to do with long term reliability. It is one thing I assemble something properly. It is another for it to stay that way for 15 years/200k miles. As far as I know there are no good stats for cost of repairs in years 7-15 out there.
Car reliability is a hobby of mine. I look at quite a few different takes on it. Including TrueCar, Consumer Reports, JD Power and many others.

In general, long-term reliability is positively correlated with initial quality. Not exactly, not always, and not 100%. But as the initial quality of a car improves, so does its long-term reliability. (It's not an accident those famously long-term reliable Hondas were also very high in initial quality.) Of course various cars and models are exceptions. This is statistical in nature, and is all about playing the odds.

Beyond that, even if you want to ignore JD Power, every other statistic I have seen that analyzes the long-term reliability of cars shows a marked upward trajectory across every single class and price range.

Pick any stat you like, from any source, kept over a decade or more, and you will see this same trend. Every. Single. One.

The various sources all have their drawbacks--nothing in this field approaches mathematical proof--but when the evidence from such a wide variety of sources, collected in such a wide variety of ways, measuring automobile quality in such a wide variety of ways, all points to the same conclusion, that is extremely strong evidence.

The number of years on the road stat is a really good one, and it is going up fairly steadily. The thing to note there is that it is a long-term trailing indicator, a car built today won't start bringing that average up until it is about twenty years old.

Cars are more reliable today than they ever have been. And it isn't close.
Last edited by mountain-lion on Wed May 02, 2018 7:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Tc99
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Re: Should reliability rankings eliminate Jeep Grand Cherokee?

Post by Tc99 » Wed May 02, 2018 7:15 pm

quantAndHold wrote:
Wed May 02, 2018 2:08 pm
The one time I bought a used car that was towards the bottom of the Consumer Reports reliability rankings, I paid for it. Not in money so much, because I also bought an extended warranty. But the thing was constantly in the shop. The second that extended warranty expired, I sold my problem to some poor unsuspecting soul.

Jeeps are fantastic if you are actually going to use it off road. But other than that, they’re pretty terrible cars, not just because of reliability. Wife likes the way they look wouldn’t be a good enough reason for me to buy one.
I would have to say my experience is exactly the opposite. We bought a 2015 Grand Cherokee (but we bought it new) and have not had one issue with it so far and it has been an outstanding and very comfortable vehicle for us.

Back in 1992 (I think) CR gave the 86 Ford Bronco very bad ratings. That was one of the best vehicles I ever purchased and I bought it used. I was worried because of the ratings but it held up for many years with just regular maintenance and a starter and alternator a couple of times in the 14 years I had it.

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Re: Should reliability rankings eliminate Jeep Grand Cherokee?

Post by gator15 » Wed May 02, 2018 7:25 pm

I have a 2015 JGC bought new. I love the vehicle. I ultimately bought it because I got a lot of bang for my buck. I considered a 4 runner but I didn’t like the interior. Didn’t like the look of the pilot. I like the explorer but liked the JGC and Lexus GX 460 more. While I wanted the Lexus I didn’t think it was $20k better than the JGC. I considered the reliability rating of the Jeep but wasn’t deterred because I had an 8 year old Wrangler and I never had issues with it. To this point the JGC has been great. My wife wants it and wants me to get another vehicle. No thanks

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Re: Should reliability rankings eliminate Jeep Grand Cherokee?

Post by mountain-lion » Wed May 02, 2018 7:28 pm

One other thing that needs to be added here:

This is all about statistics and probability, and citing individual examples risks falls prey to all the issues associated with the Availability heuristic. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Availability_heuristic

If Jeep A is a total lemon, and Jeep B worked flawlessly for 500,000 miles, that tells us almost nothing about the overall situation.

If you take a single roll of the dice and get snake eyes, you don't have enough evidence to determine that the dice are loaded. You have a single data-point that isn't really even that unlucky. It takes many rolls of the dice to figure that out.

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Re: Should reliability rankings eliminate Jeep Grand Cherokee?

Post by DaftInvestor » Wed May 02, 2018 7:32 pm

I like the JGC but eliminated it for reliability.
Statistically you are more likely to have problems than with other choices. You can take the risk you will beat the odds - up to you.

rkhusky
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Re: Should reliability rankings eliminate Jeep Grand Cherokee?

Post by rkhusky » Wed May 02, 2018 7:56 pm

Similar to comparing two funds, one with an ER of 0.05% and the other with 0.04%. The latter must be the obvious choice, the ER is 20% lower after all.

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Re: Should reliability rankings eliminate Jeep Grand Cherokee?

Post by munemaker » Wed May 02, 2018 8:34 pm

Should reliability rankings eliminate Jeep Grand Cherokee?

Absolutely

Jeep comes in as second to last in CR reliability report, year after year. Yes, it may be better than Fiat.

What would make you want to buy a vehicle that you pretty much know you are going to have problems with? Why not buy something closer to the top of the list, or even average?
Last edited by munemaker on Wed May 02, 2018 9:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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DaftInvestor
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Re: Should reliability rankings eliminate Jeep Grand Cherokee?

Post by DaftInvestor » Wed May 02, 2018 8:38 pm

rkhusky wrote:
Wed May 02, 2018 7:56 pm
Similar to comparing two funds, one with an ER of 0.05% and the other with 0.04%. The latter must be the obvious choice, the ER is 20% lower after all.
A better analogy would be to compare two funds knowing that one is 20% more likely to lose money over the other. You can hope to beat the odds and pick the statistical loser.

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Re: Should reliability rankings eliminate Jeep Grand Cherokee?

Post by GCD » Wed May 02, 2018 8:43 pm

As a former Jeep owner it seems you may have that "Jeep Thing" going. The last place I worked all but one guy owned an F150 or a Jeep with a bunch of aftermarket parts. One guy owned a Prius and was the subject of endless practical jokes.

I say go for it. I use Consumer Reports and similar ratings as a guide, not an obligation. If somebody gives an F150 a bad rating I'm gonna call BS and buy another. I would rely on your personal experience.

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Re: Should reliability rankings eliminate Jeep Grand Cherokee?

Post by RabbMD » Wed May 02, 2018 9:04 pm

Do what i did... buy a lifetime warranty for around $2700 from one of the big three jeep dealers that sell the mopar warrantys online. I paid around $2700 for a true lifetime unlimited mile warranty. See the jeep garage site for more details. Ive only owned Toyotas and hondas before, and they have been plagued with problems.... 5,000 miles in my jeep is perfect. You can get the lifetime on a used one as long as it’s still under factory warranty 3/36. It costs a bit more after 1 year and 12,000 miles than new.

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Re: Should reliability rankings eliminate Jeep Grand Cherokee?

Post by GCD » Wed May 02, 2018 9:09 pm

munemaker wrote:
Wed May 02, 2018 8:34 pm
What would make you want to buy a vehicle that you pretty much know you are going to have problems with? Why not buy something closer to the top of the list, or even average?
Because it's more fun than a Camry. And some people like to bolt on all kinds of aftermarket stuff. It's a Jeep thing, you wouldn't understand.

I've never owned a Jeep, but have humored people afflicted with the disease before.

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Re: Should reliability rankings eliminate Jeep Grand Cherokee?

Post by Bacchus01 » Wed May 02, 2018 9:42 pm

lazydavid wrote:
Wed May 02, 2018 7:04 pm
The current JGC has been pretty solid, except for the 2014 model year. It was plagued with tons of defects, the majority of which were corrected from the 2014.5 model onward. Interior on the upper trim levels positively shames vehicles like the Highlander and Pilot, and out-luxes the Lexus RX and Acura MDX quite handily as well. I personally would have no qualms about buying one.
Bacchus01 wrote:
Wed May 02, 2018 7:03 pm
I’m on my 4th JGC. Had a ‘93 Limited with the 4.0 and Selectrac, a ‘97 Laredo with 4.0 and Quadratrac
I miss the 4.0L straight-six. Fuel economy was abysmal, but that engine just will not die no matter how ruthlessly you abuse it.
Actually, I got over 20mpg in my ‘93 with that 4.0. Better than I get today with a vehicle 25 years newer.

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Re: Should reliability rankings eliminate Jeep Grand Cherokee?

Post by alwi228 » Wed May 02, 2018 10:05 pm

Owner of a 2015 Overland 4x4 with 40k miles on it, bought new. I looked at a lot of suv's in 2015 and the Lincoln MKX was the other car that I seriously considered. Firstly, the jeep was a year off (model started in 2014 with bugs, as previously stated) a refresh, and they added in what I figured are features that would be awesome to have. Mainly the keyless start, heated steering wheel, heated and cooled seats, the uconnect system, air suspension, the reclining rear seats, pano sunroof and HID headlights with the LED running lights. There just wasn't anything out there that I felt looked proportional and still be a somewhat enthusiasts car. The way everything is tied together is really convenient too; like remote start either starts the heated seats AND wheel, or the AC seats. My wifes 2016 Acura MDX Advance (which is a caveman inside) had to get the top model to even get the heated/ac seats, but they dont work with the remote start. Thats a very little thing but man, winters are easier.

...I've typed a lot but haven't really answered any question regarding reliability. Im a car guy and know the ratings jeep gets, I've had problem free miles but I've been so paranoid to have anything change on my jeep that I haven't gone in for the 14/15 shifter recall (automatically puts car into park when the doors are open now...I believe), which doesn't speak highly of my faith in the brand. I also worry about the air suspension 4-5 years from now or the fancy headlights. But I would absolutely buy it again, outside of my concerns from reviews from the likes of jdpowers, I haven't had a single issue with mine and it still has all the relevant tech as any car available. It's smooth, has a great driving position, and the 8speed ZF is a life saver. I would add that the Overland is the off-road version and they use a much stiffer foam in the seats than the limited or Summit. It's not super different but....8 hour drives could be a little easier with more cushion. Hope this confusing rant helped in some way....

Carefreeap
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Re: Should reliability rankings eliminate Jeep Grand Cherokee?

Post by Carefreeap » Wed May 02, 2018 10:40 pm

fortfun wrote:
Wed May 02, 2018 1:53 pm
My parents had a Jeep Grand Cherokee when I was growing up. It was towed more miles than it was driven. That's why I drive a Toyota Highlander today :)
Lol and why I wound up trading mine for "parts" value in 2005 and bought a 4Runner. Still have the 4Runner with 147k miles.

My Jeep Grand Cherokee was never towed but I did have some major problems with it. One of the more problematic was the brake rotors were insufficient to handle the weight of the vehicle. They kept warping and I'm not a hard driver. Jeep knew about it too. For a while the dealer was replacing my rotors monthly (4x!) when the service guy said "We're not supposed to say this but if you buy after market brake parts suitable for a taxi you'll be fine." I did and he was right.

I'm a person who values reliability. I'm sure the car will "look great" in the shop! :wink:

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Re: Should reliability rankings eliminate Jeep Grand Cherokee?

Post by denovo » Thu May 03, 2018 4:36 am

RabbMD wrote:
Wed May 02, 2018 9:04 pm
Do what i did... buy a lifetime warranty for around $2700 from one of the big three jeep dealers that sell the mopar warrantys online. I paid around $2700 for a true lifetime unlimited mile warranty. See the jeep garage site for more details. Ive only owned Toyotas and hondas before, and they have been plagued with problems.... 5,000 miles in my jeep is perfect. You can get the lifetime on a used one as long as it’s still under factory warranty 3/36. It costs a bit more after 1 year and 12,000 miles than new.
Lifetime warranty? Link please.
"Don't trust everything you read on the Internet"- Abraham Lincoln

dsmclone
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Re: Should reliability rankings eliminate Jeep Grand Cherokee?

Post by dsmclone » Thu May 03, 2018 6:21 am

I like looking at JD power for overall trends but I would never use it as an end-all be-all. A few things to think about when it comes to JD power.

1. If you're looking at a whole brand, look at years worth of data not just one year. Some brands have just a few models and one bad model can ruin it for the whole lineup. A perfect example of this is Infiniti. From 2017 to 2018 it went from 28th to 4th. Do you think the whole Infiniti line improved that much in one year? So this was actually looking at the 2014-2015 models. Well guess what happened in 2014...Their most popular car got a completed redesign (Q50). I would assume that in 2015 they worked through their first year issues.

2. People don't take redesigns into account enough. Yes, it's great to have the latest and greatest but some of the most reliable vehicles are going to be the ones that came out right before the new ones. All the bugs are out and you can usually get a deal.

3. Look at JD power long term

Not related to JD power but
Even if you're buying new, go and drive a 5+ year old model and see how it has held up. This is where quality really shows up. Some friends of ours just sold off a 2005 Honda Pilot with over 200k miles and besides the dated interior, it was like a rock. No wind leaks, no creaks, drove nice, didn't burn oil, etc.

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munemaker
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Re: Should reliability rankings eliminate Jeep Grand Cherokee?

Post by munemaker » Thu May 03, 2018 6:39 am

GCD wrote:
Wed May 02, 2018 9:09 pm
munemaker wrote:
Wed May 02, 2018 8:34 pm
What would make you want to buy a vehicle that you pretty much know you are going to have problems with? Why not buy something closer to the top of the list, or even average?
Because it's more fun than a Camry. And some people like to bolt on all kinds of aftermarket stuff. It's a Jeep thing, you wouldn't understand.

I've never owned a Jeep, but have humored people afflicted with the disease before.
I guess it comes down to whether you want a car or a hobby.

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Re: Should reliability rankings eliminate Jeep Grand Cherokee?

Post by mmmodem » Thu May 03, 2018 7:06 am

If reliability rankings were all that mattered, we'd all be driving Toyotas and Hondas. And if it were all about money, we'd all be driving used vehicles instead of new.

We bought a Mitsubishi Outlander. Among other things, we know it's less reliable but it cost us less than a comparable Rav4 or CRV. DW doesn't like the styling of the Rav4 and I cannot stomach the transactions prices of the best selling crossover in the US. The Outlander comes with a longer warranty and third row seats that I thought was unnecessary but DW wanted it. I suggest you look at the vehicle in its entirety and not just concentrate on reliability.

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Re: Should reliability rankings eliminate Jeep Grand Cherokee?

Post by spitty » Thu May 03, 2018 7:22 am

Here's a link to extended warranty purchase as recommended on several Jeep forums: http://www.chryslerfactoryplans.com/

I've not used it but apparently much cheaper than dealer sells for. Of course if you have a favorite dealer you can challenge them to meet or beat. Since you're looking at a 2016 I assume there's still some original coverage left. We just picked up our ordered JGC_Overland a couple months ago and love it! The Uconnect system is very nice and well thought out. It's a V-6 with nice pep and good MPG. But with all the fancy electronics it's a crap-shoot keeping out of warranty. We've never bought an extended but have a few years to decide.

OP you might look at the regular size Cherokee which is slightly smaller; a new one with full warranty may be similar in price to what you're looking at. The JGC is pretty big with slightly pontoon-like handling...I'm comparing to the Wrangler-Sahara we traded in. Probably not a fair comparison.

Finally, a forum you might like: http://jeepgarage.org/f73/
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Re: Should reliability rankings eliminate Jeep Grand Cherokee?

Post by sunny_socal » Thu May 03, 2018 8:28 am

munemaker wrote:
Thu May 03, 2018 6:39 am
GCD wrote:
Wed May 02, 2018 9:09 pm
munemaker wrote:
Wed May 02, 2018 8:34 pm
What would make you want to buy a vehicle that you pretty much know you are going to have problems with? Why not buy something closer to the top of the list, or even average?
Because it's more fun than a Camry. And some people like to bolt on all kinds of aftermarket stuff. It's a Jeep thing, you wouldn't understand.

I've never owned a Jeep, but have humored people afflicted with the disease before.
I guess it comes down to whether you want a car or a hobby.
OP if you like the vehicle, buy it. I'm sure it will be ok.

Toyota/Honda are reliable but they can be boring.

ncbill
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Re: Should reliability rankings eliminate Jeep Grand Cherokee?

Post by ncbill » Thu May 03, 2018 8:42 am

denovo wrote:
Thu May 03, 2018 4:36 am
RabbMD wrote:
Wed May 02, 2018 9:04 pm
Do what i did... buy a lifetime warranty for around $2700 from one of the big three jeep dealers that sell the mopar warrantys online. I paid around $2700 for a true lifetime unlimited mile warranty. See the jeep garage site for more details. Ive only owned Toyotas and hondas before, and they have been plagued with problems.... 5,000 miles in my jeep is perfect. You can get the lifetime on a used one as long as it’s still under factory warranty 3/36. It costs a bit more after 1 year and 12,000 miles than new.
Lifetime warranty? Link please.
https://www.chryslerwarrantys.com

Based on what I've read on Pacifica forums, $2700 for the lifetime sounds right, but IIRC that's with a $100 deductible.

http://www.pacificaforums.com/forum/433 ... post353754
Last edited by ncbill on Thu May 03, 2018 8:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

onourway
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Re: Should reliability rankings eliminate Jeep Grand Cherokee?

Post by onourway » Thu May 03, 2018 8:45 am

The Jeep affliction appears to be pretty serious. My wife's family primarily owns Jeeps, and they currently have 3 Grand Cherokees between them, all between 2010 and 2016. I cannot agree with the sentiments here that these are 'enthusiast' vehicles in their dynamics nor that they are anything special in snow. To a one every Grand Cherokee I've ever driven has had sub-par road manners compared to the best SUV's in their size class - the suspension wallows and the steering is vague. Snow performance short of getting started from deep snow is 99% determined by tires no matter the vehicle.

That said, I did drive one for a thousand miles as a rental in Colorado recently on all sorts of roads - from 75mph highway (where I can tell you the highway ratings were accurate - was seeing high 20's) to 4wd access roads (where I was not impressed by the basic 4wd system on my rental model - it got stuck easily in conditions other rentals made it through easily). They are nicely enough appointed and drive well enough. I wouldn't sweat the reliability if it's the vehicle your wife will be happiest with.

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Re: Should reliability rankings eliminate Jeep Grand Cherokee?

Post by CULater » Thu May 03, 2018 11:49 am

You can do some research here:

https://www.carcomplaints.com/Jeep/Grand_Cherokee/


Numbers are relatively small but you can get an idea of the relative problems between vehicles and what the biggest problems are. For example, you can see that the 2017 Grand Cherokee has had a lot of tranny problems so that's probably a weak spot for that vehicle.

Also check the vehicle owners forums online where you can find out about problems. Bigger pool of data than just the few posters here, half of whom usually say "this is a great vehicle, we love it" and half say "it's a piece of ....., I'll never buy one again." :confused
May you have the hindsight to know where you've been, The foresight to know where you're going, And the insight to know when you've gone too far. ~ Irish Blessing

capjak
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Re: Should reliability rankings eliminate Jeep Grand Cherokee?

Post by capjak » Thu May 03, 2018 2:10 pm

According to the April 2018 Consumer Reports Auto Issue the
2017 JGC has ratings in every category of green above average or much above average (the top rating). The predicted reliability is "Average".
2016 JGC has rating the same as 2017 except for power equipment and incur Electronics which is rated as "average" the predicted reliability is "below average".
I just traded in my very reliable 2013 BMW for a 2018 JGC High Altitude it is somewhat of a unicorn in that it is a midsize SUV that can tow 6200 lbs+ (7200 with V8). Most in this class can not. I have only had it a few days and have to say the interior trim and tech gadgets are great.

You can buy 'Maxcare" which cover most everything anywhere from adding 1 to unlimited/lifetime warranty. Although I buy used, I thought for this one I would buy new and at least I would know how it was maintained and driven.

Buying used may tip me more toward the averages (honda/Toyota). You can go to Jeepgarage.org but most on there really like their Jeeps.

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Re: Should reliability rankings eliminate Jeep Grand Cherokee?

Post by bloom2708 » Thu May 03, 2018 2:25 pm

onourway wrote:
Thu May 03, 2018 8:45 am
The Jeep affliction appears to be pretty serious. My wife's family primarily owns Jeeps, and they currently have 3 Grand Cherokees between them, all between 2010 and 2016. I cannot agree with the sentiments here that these are 'enthusiast' vehicles in their dynamics nor that they are anything special in snow. To a one every Grand Cherokee I've ever driven has had sub-par road manners compared to the best SUV's in their size class - the suspension wallows and the steering is vague. Snow performance short of getting started from deep snow is 99% determined by tires no matter the vehicle.

That said, I did drive one for a thousand miles as a rental in Colorado recently on all sorts of roads - from 75mph highway (where I can tell you the highway ratings were accurate - was seeing high 20's) to 4wd access roads (where I was not impressed by the basic 4wd system on my rental model - it got stuck easily in conditions other rentals made it through easily). They are nicely enough appointed and drive well enough. I wouldn't sweat the reliability if it's the vehicle your wife will be happiest with.
+1

The Wrangler (2 or 4 door) seems to be the choice for modding. Big tires. Rock hopping. The Grand Cherokee is just a normal SUV. I was on a walk through the parking lot at work today. The Grand Cherokee isn't farther off the ground. It isn't built for off-roading. Tires aren't bigger.

I think people tend to wrap all "Jeeps" up together. The Commander, Compass, Cherokee, Grand Cherokee are just below average SUVs. Millions are sold, but I think all cars made are eventually sold. Maybe there is a secret lot somewhere where all the unsold vehicles go to rest.
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Re: Should reliability rankings eliminate Jeep Grand Cherokee?

Post by munemaker » Thu May 03, 2018 2:33 pm

capjak wrote:
Thu May 03, 2018 2:10 pm
According to the April 2018 Consumer Reports Auto Issue the
JGC 2011 --> 2015 are on the "Worst Used Cars" list.

Guess how many Jeep models are on the "Best Used Car" lists? None! Zero. Zip. Nada.

So when you are spending your hard earned money, why not buy a good car?

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Re: Should reliability rankings eliminate Jeep Grand Cherokee?

Post by rgs92 » Thu May 03, 2018 2:38 pm

I see a huge number of Jeep Cherokees around, so it's hard to believe they are lemons. (Unless everyone just leases them and turns them in every few years.) I know a couple of people who have them and say they love them.
This is all just anecdotal, but that's my impression.
I also see lots of Chrysler 300s, just to note.
I have Japanese cars.
Last edited by rgs92 on Thu May 03, 2018 2:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

capjak
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Re: Should reliability rankings eliminate Jeep Grand Cherokee?

Post by capjak » Thu May 03, 2018 2:40 pm

Just for clarification, The Jeep Grand Cherokee High Altitude and others lower to exit the vehicle and raise once in them. In addition, if off roading you can raise them higher. The wheels are 20 inch on HA but can be modified larger if needed. In addition, they can be equipped with under carriage protection etc....

car and driver:

"As before, the Trailhawk starts with the best off-road gear in the Jeep pantheon: the Quadra-Drive II four-wheel-drive system with its two-speed transfer case and Selec-Terrain dial, along with an electronically controlled limited-slip rear differential, hill-descent and -ascent control (HDC), a full gamut of skid plates, and Jeep’s nifty off-road app. The standard air springs can rise to provide up to 10.8 inches of ground clearance (0.4 inch more than any other air-spring-equipped Grand Cherokee) or lower the vehicle to ease ingress and egress. The rolling stock is no joke: Kevlar-reinforced 265/60R-18 Goodyear Wrangler All-Terrain Adventure all-terrain tires wrapped around aluminum wheels with matte-black inserts. Not surprisingly, the Trailhawk handled everything we tossed its way, from traversing body-bending staggered ruts to climbing steep, silt-covered hillsides to navigating down even steeper slopes on the back side. With HDC’s combination of hill-ascent and -descent control—the off-road equivalent of cruise control—the Trailhawk kept a steady pace over all but the craggiest of rocky paths while those awesome seats anchored us firmly in place."
Last edited by capjak on Thu May 03, 2018 2:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

capjak
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Re: Should reliability rankings eliminate Jeep Grand Cherokee?

Post by capjak » Thu May 03, 2018 2:55 pm

munemaker wrote:
Thu May 03, 2018 2:33 pm
capjak wrote:
Thu May 03, 2018 2:10 pm
According to the April 2018 Consumer Reports Auto Issue the
JGC 2011 --> 2015 are on the "Worst Used Cars" list.

Guess how many Jeep models are on the "Best Used Car" lists? None! Zero. Zip. Nada.

So when you are spending your hard earned money, why not buy a good car?
This is accurate JGC 2011-2015 are on consumer reports worst car list. However CR's review is below:

" The JGC has a solid, upscale interior; comfortable seats; and a mostly compliant and controlled ride, all of which endow it with a premium, substantial feel. Handling is competent, fit and finish is excellent, and the 8 speed automatic shifts smoothly. The standard 3.6 liter V6 return just 18 mph, though..... The Uconnect infotainment system, with its large, well-labeled touch screen, is one of the best we've tested. Appropriately optioned, the Jeep makes a good tow vehicle or a capable off-roader. Recent updates include engine stop-start for the revised V6, Siri eyes free, and an easier to use shift lever..." Does not sound like a car that sucks.....

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Re: Should reliability rankings eliminate Jeep Grand Cherokee?

Post by deikel » Thu May 03, 2018 3:09 pm

unstartable wrote:
Wed May 02, 2018 1:58 pm
rkhusky wrote:
Wed May 02, 2018 1:26 pm
Reliability rankings don't mean very much. What is important is the difference in the reliability. 30 years ago, there were wide gaps in reliability. Most car companies have now substantially closed the gaps in reliability.
This. Buy the vehicle you like the most that meets your needs at a price that is reasonable to you.
NOT this at all. The reason a Grand Cherokee Used is cheaper than compatibles is because the upkeep cost is higher (aka, its unreliable) - what you safe up front, you easily spend on the tail end in repairs.

The only exception is the Wrangler which keeps its value due to the brand recognition (marketing), not for its capabilities.

Also, for Winter use, the road clearance is almost irrelevant, Winter tires is what moves you and AWD of any kind is what makes the driving more controlled.

And for the record, I loved my bathtub grand cherokee - I just hated the constant repairs and the overall cost of ownership, so it had to go and I would never buy one again.
Everything you read in this post is my personal opinion. If you disagree with this disclaimer, please un-read the text immidiatly and destroy any copy or remembrance of it.

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Re: Should reliability rankings eliminate Jeep Grand Cherokee?

Post by deikel » Thu May 03, 2018 3:13 pm

rgs92 wrote:
Thu May 03, 2018 2:38 pm
I see a huge number of Jeep Cherokees around, so it's hard to believe they are lemons. (Unless everyone just leases them and turns them in every few years.) I know a couple of people who have them and say they love them.
This is all just anecdotal, but that's my impression.
I also see lots of Chrysler 300s, just to note.
I have Japanese cars.
Buyers remorse usually sets in very late (because folks don't like to admit a mistake until its glaringly obvious), that's why reliability statistics are more interesting than peoples face to face reviews IMO.

...kind of like in politics right now, but lets not derail the thread...
Everything you read in this post is my personal opinion. If you disagree with this disclaimer, please un-read the text immidiatly and destroy any copy or remembrance of it.

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