Medical alert "button"

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rjbraun
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Medical alert "button"

Post by rjbraun »

Just starting to research options for getting a medical alert "button" for my elderly parents (well, two buttons - one for each of them). I know of at least one person whose parent has one, and from what I can tell they seem satisfied enough.

My parents live independently, together, but are increasingly frail. While they have each other, there's still the chance that one of them is sleeping when the other needs assistance, doesn't hear the call for help, etc. As none of "the kids" live nearby I'm particularly concerned of some time passing before anyone even becomes aware that they needed help. Hence, the button idea / solution. And, yes, we are also working on trying to have a caregiver come in regularly to check-in on them. Even once we get that in place, it doesn't preclude the benefits of a button, imo.

For now, I guess on my list of things I am looking for are the following:

- easy to use and unobtrusive (will likely need to "sell" the idea to my parents)
- reliable, obviously
- ideally, no contract or high start-up fees (given their reluctance or desire to have one)

What else should I be considering? Anyone with experience to recommend on good or bad providers?

The attached list has "top 10", based on geographic area, though as the organization apparently can receive advertising revenue from companies I wonder about its objectivity.

https://www.consumersadvocate.org/medic ... gJ82_D_BwE

Thank you.
delamer
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Re: Medical alert "button"

Post by delamer »

My mother was given one to wear in her retirement community apartment.

It was the necklace type. Between general dislike of having it on and forgetfulness (due to the onset of dementia),she rarely wore it. One time that she did fall, it was nowhere to be found.

From what I gather, the failure/refusal to wear the button is the biggest problem with the whole system.

I don’t know if the bracelet type makes for better compliance.

Good luck. It is very frustrating to have such an obvious safety device available to someone who won’t use it. It reminds me of people who refuse to wear seatbelts in a car.
One thing that humbles me deeply is to see that human genius has its limits while human stupidity does not. - Alexandre Dumas, fils
littlebird
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Re: Medical alert "button"

Post by littlebird »

If your parents have a landline, I wear, and recommend, a Logic Mark alert purchased from the company directly and not through an Amazon vendor. They are a small extension phone and have no monthly fee, but are not unobtrusive. Another possibility now available is the Amazon Echo or Dot, possibly several. While they cannot, at this time, reach 911, you can set them up to reach a cooperative family member or neighbor by voice only. I use this as a back-up to my Logic Mark, but for people who, for whatever reason, are averse to wearing an alert device, this might be a good alternative. A certain amount of voice strength is needed, as well as a sufficient number of units to provide coverage.
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ResearchMed
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Re: Medical alert "button"

Post by ResearchMed »

rjbraun wrote: Sat Apr 21, 2018 9:57 am Just starting to research options for getting a medical alert "button" for my elderly parents (well, two buttons - one for each of them). I know of at least one person whose parent has one, and from what I can tell they seem satisfied enough.

My parents live independently, together, but are increasingly frail. While they have each other, there's still the chance that one of them is sleeping when the other needs assistance, doesn't hear the call for help, etc. As none of "the kids" live nearby I'm particularly concerned of some time passing before anyone even becomes aware that they needed help. Hence, the button idea / solution. And, yes, we are also working on trying to have a caregiver come in regularly to check-in on them. Even once we get that in place, it doesn't preclude the benefits of a button, imo.

For now, I guess on my list of things I am looking for are the following:

- easy to use and unobtrusive (will likely need to "sell" the idea to my parents)
- reliable, obviously
- ideally, no contract or high start-up fees (given their reluctance or desire to have one)

What else should I be considering? Anyone with experience to recommend on good or bad providers?

The attached list has "top 10", based on geographic area, though as the organization apparently can receive advertising revenue from companies I wonder about its objectivity.

https://www.consumersadvocate.org/medic ... gJ82_D_BwE

Thank you.
Think very seriously about getting a device that has "fall detection", so IF someone falls and can't move/etc., help is started (e.g., phone call sequence, then 911... whatever is set up).

MIL's friend (I think I mentioned in other thread) fell. She was lying there for a long time. Too long....
That's when MIL decided to agree to be moved near us, even though she was the fittest of all the "group" there.
Her ALF has panic buttons for all to wear (and she does), but it doesn't have fall detection.

When she DID fall (at previous ALF) she somehow fell backwards, and the panic button was under her back.
NOT good...
She is VERY lucky she is still with us. (We are lucky, too, of course!)

I've been trying to insist we get her a separate panic button with fall detection.
Heck, she could wear it *instead* of the other, and we could have the "instructions" be to *first* call her ALF, then us/911/etc.
(DH is the one I need to convince, I suppose....)

I don't have recommendations about which device or which monitoring agency. Yet.

Hope the care.com search works out. Sounds promising at the start!

RM
This signature is a placebo. You are in the control group.
Topic Author
rjbraun
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Re: Medical alert "button"

Post by rjbraun »

littlebird wrote: Sat Apr 21, 2018 10:17 am If your parents have a landline, I wear, and recommend, a Logic Mark alert purchased from the company directly and not through an Amazon vendor. They are a small extension phone and have no monthly fee, but are not unobtrusive. Another possibility now available is the Amazon Echo or Dot, possibly several. While they cannot, at this time, reach 911, you can set them up to reach a cooperative family member or neighbor by voice only. I use this as a back-up to my Logic Mark, but for people who, for whatever reason, are averse to wearing an alert device, this might be a good alternative. A certain amount of voice strength is needed, as well as a sufficient number of units to provide coverage.
Yes, my parents still have a landline (afaik -- I guess even though they maintain the same phone number, it could be VOIP(?). Anyway, easy enough to check). I will look into the Logic Mark. Based on the online picture they are, as you already noted, hardly unobtrusive :(

Am not familiar with the Amazon Echo or Dot but will definitely check them out. Being able to reach a family member or neighbor by voice only would be fine, at this point.

Thanks for the suggestions, littlebird!
Topic Author
rjbraun
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Re: Medical alert "button"

Post by rjbraun »

ResearchMed wrote: Sat Apr 21, 2018 10:19 am Think very seriously about getting a device that has "fall detection", so IF someone falls and can't move/etc., help is started (e.g., phone call sequence, then 911... whatever is set up).
RM
Thanks, RM. Will certainly add the "fall detection" feature to whatever "buttons" get short-listed!

Edit: Given that elderly are vulnerable to falling and as I understand things can really, really pose a setback that can be hard to subsequently overcome, fall detection would seem to be an essential feature on a device checklist.
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rjbraun
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Re: Medical alert "button"

Post by rjbraun »

delamer wrote: Sat Apr 21, 2018 10:14 am My mother was given one to wear in her retirement community apartment.

It was the necklace type. Between general dislike of having it on and forgetfulness (due to the onset of dementia),she rarely wore it. One time that she did fall, it was nowhere to be found.

From what I gather, the failure/refusal to wear the button is the biggest problem with the whole system.

I don’t know if the bracelet type makes for better compliance.

Good luck. It is very frustrating to have such an obvious safety device available to someone who won’t use it. It reminds me of people who refuse to wear seatbelts in a car.
Sorry to hear about your mother's fall. Perhaps not so different ultimately than my friend's mother's situation, with her button. Apparently, she is willing to wear / use it, but she wanted to keep it dry and safe and away from the bath area when she washed. But, then she fell and couldn't reach her safely set aside button. Spent the entire night laying on the floor. Fortunately, the caregiver scheduled to arrive the next morning found her and was able to take care of things. Her children made clear to the mother later that the devices are designed for some water contact (not immersion, presumably).

Yes, indeed very frustrating that people seem so reluctant to use them (okay, admittedly I might feel differently when that day comes). The seatbelt analogy seems apt.
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KlingKlang
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Re: Medical alert "button"

Post by KlingKlang »

rjbraun wrote: Sat Apr 21, 2018 10:53 am
ResearchMed wrote: Sat Apr 21, 2018 10:19 am Think very seriously about getting a device that has "fall detection", so IF someone falls and can't move/etc., help is started (e.g., phone call sequence, then 911... whatever is set up).
RM
Thanks, RM. Will certainly add the "fall detection" feature to whatever "buttons" get short-listed!

Edit: Given that elderly are vulnerable to falling and as I understand things can really, really pose a setback that can be hard to subsequently overcome, fall detection would seem to be an essential feature on a device checklist.
I've been reading up on these for my mother and mother-in-law. One thing to be aware of is that there will be a certain number of false alarms from the fall detection, the device has no way of determining if you have fallen or just dropped it on the floor or banged it into something.

My mother's objection to these devices (she has fallen several times) is that she doesn't want 911 responders to be breaking down her door. Her neighbors have her house keys but obviously they aren't home all the time.
delamer
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Re: Medical alert "button"

Post by delamer »

rjbraun wrote: Sat Apr 21, 2018 11:03 am
delamer wrote: Sat Apr 21, 2018 10:14 am My mother was given one to wear in her retirement community apartment.

It was the necklace type. Between general dislike of having it on and forgetfulness (due to the onset of dementia),she rarely wore it. One time that she did fall, it was nowhere to be found.

From what I gather, the failure/refusal to wear the button is the biggest problem with the whole system.

I don’t know if the bracelet type makes for better compliance.

Good luck. It is very frustrating to have such an obvious safety device available to someone who won’t use it. It reminds me of people who refuse to wear seatbelts in a car.
Sorry to hear about your mother's fall. Perhaps not so different ultimately than my friend's mother's situation, with her button. Apparently, she is willing to wear / use it, but she wanted to keep it dry and safe and away from the bath area when she washed. But, then she fell and couldn't reach her safely set aside button. Spent the entire night laying on the floor. Fortunately, the caregiver scheduled to arrive the next morning found her and was able to take care of things. Her children made clear to the mother later that the devices are designed for some water contact (not immersion, presumably).

Yes, indeed very frustrating that people seem so reluctant to use them (okay, admittedly I might feel differently when that day comes). The seatbelt analogy seems apt.
You just have to look at the alert device as one tool to help people stay safe, but not kid yourself that it is a panacea. People have a hard time dealing with their limitations as they age — as you said, who know how we’ll feel at that age — and don’t make good choices. (Some similarities to dealing with teenagers.)
One thing that humbles me deeply is to see that human genius has its limits while human stupidity does not. - Alexandre Dumas, fils
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ResearchMed
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Re: Medical alert "button"

Post by ResearchMed »

KlingKlang wrote: Sat Apr 21, 2018 11:19 am
rjbraun wrote: Sat Apr 21, 2018 10:53 am
ResearchMed wrote: Sat Apr 21, 2018 10:19 am Think very seriously about getting a device that has "fall detection", so IF someone falls and can't move/etc., help is started (e.g., phone call sequence, then 911... whatever is set up).
RM
Thanks, RM. Will certainly add the "fall detection" feature to whatever "buttons" get short-listed!

Edit: Given that elderly are vulnerable to falling and as I understand things can really, really pose a setback that can be hard to subsequently overcome, fall detection would seem to be an essential feature on a device checklist.
I've been reading up on these for my mother and mother-in-law. One thing to be aware of is that there will be a certain number of false alarms from the fall detection, the device has no way of determining if you have fallen or just dropped it on the floor or banged it into something.

My mother's objection to these devices (she has fallen several times) is that she doesn't want 911 responders to be breaking down her door. Her neighbors have her house keys but obviously they aren't home all the time.
First, yes, falls can be, well, deadly.
So the best thing is to avoid them. That means *trying* to get someone to use a walker/etc., when it first becomes useful, and this is a difficult decision. (MIL didn't start using one until *after* her fall...)

Also, about false alarms, there could be (is there?) a set up where an intercom could "ask" if help is needed? A "yes" or no anwer generates help.
Or is there a device with a "cancel the alert/I'm fine" setting?
I don't know the answer to these questions...

As for "breaking down the door", on could have a keypad lock OR a lockbox with a regular extra key, such that law enforcement could get it (give code in advance, or have monitoring service give it).
Obviously, one needs to feel comfortable with *someone* having that code. If a relative, are they *always* available??

Tricky...

RM
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brandy
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Re: Medical alert "button"

Post by brandy »

Thanks for bringing this up. I have been sort of thinking about thinking about getting one of these.
Falling is not part of the family history. I am of the age--or within shouting distance of it :mrgreen: that I might need some help... Another reason for hesitancy on my part is that they (probably) dispatch a very expensive ambulance, but I can't safely go into hospitals, due to MCS/EI, AND I have everything the hospital would give, at home and in my car, if the problem is respiratory.

I have a key to give a neighbor, and will do so soon.

I'm disabled. I'm in a neighborhood where mail is delivered to the curb (not cluster boxes). If I don't remove mail every day, the mailperson will contact local gendarmes for a security/welfare check. There have been a few times I have felt pretty bad, and have, on purpose, left junk mail in the box just in case. I also have notes to remind me to get the mail by 8:00 AM the next day. (Since I made it through the night, I remove it early next day) This is a service the USPS provides. I think I made arrangements with the local postmaster years ago.

I have a battery operated automatic water shutoff on my shower head. I really do not want to die in the shower and have water running for days until my body is found. :annoyed I especially do not want to be a floater. :( I usually set it to turn off at 30 minutes.
I wish I could find a very simple timer with a high enough power to operate heat machines, such as a skillet to attach to machines that I could set to turn them off at a 10-15 minute point, or in a few hours, such as a crock pot. Something to turn on just before I use a machine. In one of my hobbies I use one, and it would also be used in the kitchen. I do not want the "about" timer, or one with lots of choices for hours, days, on/off times. Just a plain, simple timer.

I just bought a stove turner-offer. I have had a couple of episodes of dizziness, last one happened at the stove, and I did get it turned off before sitting.

Contact the local Council on Aging and find out what services they offer. I've been doing more of that, looking for info for myself, and have volunteered (as a "phone friend").

About the fall device, I'd prefer that it first alert a neighbor or two with a key, before 911.
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Watty
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Re: Medical alert "button"

Post by Watty »

My Mom had one and had to use it twice so they are a good idea. It was long enough ago that I can't really give a recommendation on the company.

When we looked into this the contracts with the company seem to be the biggest problem since and in addition to knowing how it works if they die you also need to know what the contract says about if they need to move into assisted living.
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ResearchMed
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Re: Medical alert "button"

Post by ResearchMed »

Watty wrote: Sat Apr 21, 2018 12:53 pm My Mom had one and had to use it twice so they are a good idea. It was long enough ago that I can't really give a recommendation on the company.

When we looked into this the contracts with the company seem to be the biggest problem since and in addition to knowing how it works if they die you also need to know what the contract says about if they need to move into assisted living.
Just to add... I'm trying to get MIL to add a device with "fall detection", instead of or in addition to the regular panic butter her ALF (Assisted Living Facility) provides.
She could decide whether the "first call" goes to the ALF or elsewhere, so if she preferred, it could operate just about the same as the regular ALF panic button, except "plus the fall detection".

Alas, she DID fall, in the ALF, as mentioned above, and the way she fell... she could not reach that button.
(Obviously, this ended up "happy", but she did crack some vertebrae in her neck (not good in late '90's!), and ended up in hospital for a while and then rehab for several weeks. We are all VERY lucky...)

RM
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RudyS
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Re: Medical alert "button"

Post by RudyS »

In our town, you can provide a list of data and contact info to the 911 service. Among the obvious other things is the opportunity to identify where a key is available (neighbor, hidden, etc) so they don't have to break in. My key is NOT under the door mat or in a flower pot.
PatrickA5
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Re: Medical alert "button"

Post by PatrickA5 »

I bought my dad one when he was 90 (and living alone). He basically wouldn't wear it - no matter how much I encourage it. Over the course of the next several years, he had numerous falls but always managed to eventually get to a phone. Until his last fall. I found him the next day laying on the floor with the phone directly above him which he couldn't reach. He had a stroke and basically couldn't move, so I don't know if his button would have helped or not. But, it sounds like fall detection might have helped. I'll look into that when my time comes. Hopefully, I'll be a little more inclined to wear something. I think maybe something on the wrist might be better.
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Pajamas
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Re: Medical alert "button"

Post by Pajamas »

Find out what devices are popular locally. You might contact the social work department at a local hospital or a services organization for older people to find out. However, I'm not so sure that a cell phone isn't just as useful these days.

You should also consider having a physical or occupational therapist do a complete in-home falls risk assessment and make recommendations about removing hazards, adding safety devices such as grab bars, and similar. They can also teach safety and transfer techniques, what to do if there is a fall, etc.
mouses
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Re: Medical alert "button"

Post by mouses »

I'm starting to get some flack from my younger brother that I should have one of these. My concern is that somehow it would go off and the emergency people would break into the house, and my cat would get out and get lost. I even imagine it going off and sending them to my house when I'm in a neighboring state or something, result, lost cat. I don't know the solution to this paranoia, or if it is justified or not, even though some have GPS.

I also would prefer a bracelet to a pendant. I just can see falling and the pendant goes flying across the room, or the chain catches on something and there goes my neck.

Yes, I would say automatic fall detection is a must.

If I got one, it would be the Consumer Cellular Ally, which lets you talk to the monitoring center. It basically includes a cell phone, so no distance from a base unit worries. $150 for the device, $25 a month for monitoring. But, it's a pendant, not a bracelet.

In the meantime, I have my cell phone within a few feet including on a chair next to the bathtub when I take a shower.
Last edited by mouses on Sat Apr 21, 2018 6:31 pm, edited 2 times in total.
fsrph
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Re: Medical alert "button"

Post by fsrph »

One of my relatives uses a Five Star Great Call Splash which she purchased at Wal-Mart. Advantages is it uses the Verizon wireless network so it works outside the home. Also, this device has one of the lowest cost monthly plans at $19.99.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/GreatCall-Sp ... r/37248986

https://www.greatcall.com/devices/livel ... -providers

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bklyn96
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Re: Medical alert "button"

Post by bklyn96 »

I recommend taking a look at VTech phones. https://www.vtechphones.com/products/ca ... ior-phones

We have regular handsets along with a programmable pendant and two programmable picture phones; I'd check with the company but I'm sure you can purchase additional pendants.
mouses
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Re: Medical alert "button"

Post by mouses »

bklyn96 wrote: Sat Apr 21, 2018 6:30 pm I recommend taking a look at VTech phones. https://www.vtechphones.com/products/ca ... ior-phones

We have regular handsets along with a programmable pendant and two programmable picture phones; I'd check with the company but I'm sure you can purchase additional pendants.
That doesn't seem to come with monitoring?
downshiftme
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Re: Medical alert "button"

Post by downshiftme »

Some of these devices work with a base station that needs to be in range to activate and to respond to the assistance operator. Others have speakers/microphone on the pendant itself. Some can work with cell phones (coverage in the yard or away from home) and others only work in the immediate vicinity of the base. Some are supposed to be worn in the shower or bath (common fall area) and others are not water resistant enough. Be sure you ask a lot of questions before you settle on a device and company.

I have one friend who consistently wears his everywhere, even though I'm surprised he needs one. I have one relative who definitely needs one, but only wears it when his daughter reminds him. Pretty much every day until she is out of the house, then he sets it down somewhere and forgets about it. At least we put cordless phone extensions in every room as a backup.
bklyn96
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Re: Medical alert "button"

Post by bklyn96 »

mouses wrote: Sat Apr 21, 2018 7:32 pm
bklyn96 wrote: Sat Apr 21, 2018 6:30 pm I recommend taking a look at VTech phones. https://www.vtechphones.com/products/ca ... ior-phones

We have regular handsets along with a programmable pendant and two programmable picture phones; I'd check with the company but I'm sure you can purchase additional pendants.
That doesn't seem to come with monitoring?
Correct. While there's not a "company" monitor I decided the system's flexibility was enough for our needs. My wife uses the pendant; one button dials my cell phone which is kept on 24/7. The other pendant button dials our building security desk which is staffed 24/7.
mouses
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Re: Medical alert "button"

Post by mouses »

bklyn96 wrote: Sat Apr 21, 2018 9:11 pm
mouses wrote: Sat Apr 21, 2018 7:32 pm
bklyn96 wrote: Sat Apr 21, 2018 6:30 pm I recommend taking a look at VTech phones. https://www.vtechphones.com/products/ca ... ior-phones

We have regular handsets along with a programmable pendant and two programmable picture phones; I'd check with the company but I'm sure you can purchase additional pendants.
That doesn't seem to come with monitoring?
Correct. While there's not a "company" monitor I decided the system's flexibility was enough for our needs. My wife uses the pendant; one button dials my cell phone which is kept on 24/7. The other pendant button dials our building security desk which is staffed 24/7.
Oh, a building security staff would be excellent. People right at hand, with pass keys, probably know about pets, etc.
jpohio
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Re: Medical alert "button"

Post by jpohio »

We got one of these for my mother about 2 years ago. Company is Medical Guardian, I think. Very pleased so far. My mother fell within 3 months of having the device, which comes with both a necklace and wrist band, plus a speaker-phone like device that sits on a table sort of in the middle of her house. Of course she was not wearing the necklace when she fell.

We were worried about the "Emergency responder knocking down your door" issue, but turns out that the police department where she lives has a program where they give you a lockbox type device similar to what real estate agents use. Supposedly only the police, fire and EMT folks know the code, and my mother hangs it on her side door, out of sight.

I echo the other suggestions of looking into the fall detection capability.
book lover
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Re: Medical alert "button"

Post by book lover »

With their permission, have you considered installing Nest cameras or something similar in their home to be able to check on them? This could supplement the medical alert button.
Broken Man 1999
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Re: Medical alert "button"

Post by Broken Man 1999 »

KlingKlang wrote: Sat Apr 21, 2018 11:19 am
rjbraun wrote: Sat Apr 21, 2018 10:53 am
ResearchMed wrote: Sat Apr 21, 2018 10:19 am Think very seriously about getting a device that has "fall detection", so IF someone falls and can't move/etc., help is started (e.g., phone call sequence, then 911... whatever is set up).
RM
Thanks, RM. Will certainly add the "fall detection" feature to whatever "buttons" get short-listed!

Edit: Given that elderly are vulnerable to falling and as I understand things can really, really pose a setback that can be hard to subsequently overcome, fall detection would seem to be an essential feature on a device checklist.
I've been reading up on these for my mother and mother-in-law. One thing to be aware of is that there will be a certain number of false alarms from the fall detection, the device has no way of determining if you have fallen or just dropped it on the floor or banged it into something.

My mother's objection to these devices (she has fallen several times) is that she doesn't want 911 responders to be breaking down her door. Her neighbors have her house keys but obviously they aren't home all the time.
To save the door, check with your local fire department. They might use a Knox Box. A Knox Box is a box with a clip that goes over the top of your front door. The fire department has a master key for the Knox Box to open and retrieve the homeowner's key. I have one on my door, provided free by my FD.

Just google "Knox Box" for details.

Broken Man 1999
“If I cannot drink Bourbon and smoke cigars in Heaven then I shall not go." - Mark Twain
Dottie57
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Re: Medical alert "button"

Post by Dottie57 »

My mom has a button on necklace. She wears it all the time including showers.

The service is bought from the local hospital. The monthly check in is always done. Luckily nothing has happened.
robertbm
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Re: Medical alert "button"

Post by robertbm »

+1 for the Logical mark freedom alert. Purchased one for my Mom when she was alive. She was able to talk to me through the pendant and no monthly fees.
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rjbraun
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Re: Medical alert "button"

Post by rjbraun »

Thanks to all for the helpful feedback and sharing of information, particularly as some instances involved very personal situations.

I am still reviewing the posts but now recognize that getting my parents to use the button may be even more challenging than I thought. Also, even if they use one it's quite possible based on others' experience that it won't be available when they need it, alas. So, as others have said or implied, it would be just "one arrow in the quiver" of senior care (which I can now see may turn out to be quite challenging). We've been shot done repeatedly about having my parents actively improve safety aspects of the house (loose carpets, lack of grab bars in shower, etc.) that we've almost given up, but I guess it's important to keep trying ...

I don't think my parents are good candidates now for in-house monitoring by cameras. I will keep in mind for the future, but for now I think they will consider it too invasive, which I can totally appreciate. That said, in case others have situations where a camera may be better received, I've been told that "baby monitors" are very good, and at reasonable cost, and could be just as effective for adult (elder) situations based on the monitoring individual's ability to hear sounds clearly and also to apparently zoom in to make out a face well enough to see that everything is fine (or not).

The need to find a way for a neighbor or police, etc. to gain entry without breaking down the door is definitely something we will work on. That may be the "low hanging fruit" though even then I suspect we will encounter resistance from my parents (including perhaps out of legitimate concern of the spare key getting in the wrong hands).

Anyway, definitely interested to hear additional thoughts or ideas anyone may have, and many thanks again!
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rjbraun
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Re: Medical alert "button"

Post by rjbraun »

robertbm wrote: Sun Apr 22, 2018 3:27 pm +1 for the Logical mark freedom alert. Purchased one for my Mom when she was alive. She was able to talk to me through the pendant and no monthly fees.
Thank you. I will look into the LogicMark Freedom Alert more closely (or their other products), but from what I gather it doesn't seem to have "fall protection" which would seem to be a desirable feature (assuming the device is worn :( )
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rjbraun
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Re: Medical alert "button"

Post by rjbraun »

Broken Man 1999 wrote: Sun Apr 22, 2018 12:12 pm
KlingKlang wrote: Sat Apr 21, 2018 11:19 am
rjbraun wrote: Sat Apr 21, 2018 10:53 am
ResearchMed wrote: Sat Apr 21, 2018 10:19 am Think very seriously about getting a device that has "fall detection", so IF someone falls and can't move/etc., help is started (e.g., phone call sequence, then 911... whatever is set up).
RM
Thanks, RM. Will certainly add the "fall detection" feature to whatever "buttons" get short-listed!

Edit: Given that elderly are vulnerable to falling and as I understand things can really, really pose a setback that can be hard to subsequently overcome, fall detection would seem to be an essential feature on a device checklist.
I've been reading up on these for my mother and mother-in-law. One thing to be aware of is that there will be a certain number of false alarms from the fall detection, the device has no way of determining if you have fallen or just dropped it on the floor or banged it into something.

My mother's objection to these devices (she has fallen several times) is that she doesn't want 911 responders to be breaking down her door. Her neighbors have her house keys but obviously they aren't home all the time.
To save the door, check with your local fire department. They might use a Knox Box. A Knox Box is a box with a clip that goes over the top of your front door. The fire department has a master key for the Knox Box to open and retrieve the homeowner's key. I have one on my door, provided free by my FD.

Just google "Knox Box" for details.

Broken Man 1999
Regarding the Knox Box, I'm not sure it will work in my parents' situation, but I figured I would share what I learned in case it could be helpful to others.

My parents' local Fire Department said that typically office buildings and large(?) apartment buildings may use a Knox Box. Individual homeowners do not, though the person I spoke with said my parents weren't precluded from getting one if they like. He just that they are pretty expensive (no quantification of this), I guess not only to buy but also to install. In any case, once the box is installed the Fire Dept will come out to use their Master Key (only one, for the entire county) to open the box and take the keys the resident wants placed in the box.

The cost isn't really the issue, it's more that the Knox Box doesn't give a way for a neighbor to gain access. Maybe a "Realtor Box" like what's shown in the link below would offer a solution. I guess we could hide the realtor box in another box, to be kept outside or in an unlocked area. That would allow both close neighbors and fire / police access.

Fwiw, the Fire Dept said that they will normally try to find a way to gain access that will cause minimal or limited damage, and not simply "break down the door".

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Master-Lock ... /100124915
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Re: Medical alert "button"

Post by Broken Man 1999 »

The Knox Box I have is the model 3200. The Knox Box site shows a price of $308.

The installation cost would be zero if someone can use a screwdriver. You simply put the box clip over the top of your door, and tighten a set screw on the inside side of the door, which prevents the box from sliding around. There is no other activity needed to secure the box.

There are other models of the box that would require drilling into an outside wall to secure the box, I wouldn't want that style myself.

So far as neighbors not being able to use the box, very true. We have in hand longtime neighbors door keys and alarm codes, and they have ours as well. It isn't uncommon for an alarm to go off while the resident is on at work/vacation, so we can and do help each other.

The boxes aren't necessarily coded per county, as in Florida, at least, but rather by specific fire departments. Many counties have multiple municipalities, with their own fire departments.

We have had our box for awhile, and a few months ago we re-keyed our home. A fireman who lived nearby stopped by after his shift and opened the box so we could change the key.

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Re: Medical alert "button"

Post by Artsdoctor »

You might try the AARP site:

http://medicalert.systems/aarp-recommen ... t-systems/

I set my mom up with Medical Alert. It looks OK and the concept is good, but we've not had to test them.
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Re: Medical alert "button"

Post by rjbraun »

Broken Man 1999 wrote: Mon Apr 23, 2018 3:49 pm The Knox Box I have is the model 3200. The Knox Box site shows a price of $308.

The installation cost would be zero if someone can use a screwdriver. You simply put the box clip over the top of your door, and tighten a set screw on the inside side of the door, which prevents the box from sliding around. There is no other activity needed to secure the box.

There are other models of the box that would require drilling into an outside wall to secure the box, I wouldn't want that style myself.

So far as neighbors not being able to use the box, very true. We have in hand longtime neighbors door keys and alarm codes, and they have ours as well. It isn't uncommon for an alarm to go off while the resident is on at work/vacation, so we can and do help each other.

The boxes aren't necessarily coded per county, as in Florida, at least, but rather by specific fire departments. Many counties have multiple municipalities, with their own fire departments.

We have had our box for awhile, and a few months ago we re-keyed our home. A fireman who lived nearby stopped by after his shift and opened the box so we could change the key.

Broken Man 1999
Thank you for the additional information, Broken Man. Perhaps we will consider the Knox Box after all -- not sure, I suppose that and the "realtor / passcode box" are both worthy of consideration, especially as only family members currently have house keys and none of us lives locally.
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Re: Medical alert "button"

Post by rjbraun »

Artsdoctor wrote: Mon Apr 23, 2018 4:41 pm You might try the AARP site:

http://medicalert.systems/aarp-recommen ... t-systems/

I set my mom up with Medical Alert. It looks OK and the concept is good, but we've not had to test them.
Thank you, looks like there's some helpful information on the site.
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Re: Medical alert "button"

Post by tc101 »

I just read over this thread and found it helpful. The last post was over a year ago, and with technology changing so quickly I would like to know if there are any new thoughts on this topic.
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Re: Medical alert "button"

Post by FI4LIFE »

Assuming the person is mentally sound and able to speak, I would consider getting amazon echo (Alexa) throughout the house so they can just tell it to call 911 and they can speak directly to the 911 call-taker. No middle man. As someone who responds to medical alert device activations through my job, I can tell you a majority are false alarms. This can lead to people not wanting to wear their pendants due to constant false activations. I have not found any one "life alert" system to be better than another.
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Re: Medical alert "button"

Post by White Coat Investor »

rjbraun wrote: Sat Apr 21, 2018 9:57 am Just starting to research options for getting a medical alert "button" for my elderly parents (well, two buttons - one for each of them). I know of at least one person whose parent has one, and from what I can tell they seem satisfied enough.

My parents live independently, together, but are increasingly frail. While they have each other, there's still the chance that one of them is sleeping when the other needs assistance, doesn't hear the call for help, etc. As none of "the kids" live nearby I'm particularly concerned of some time passing before anyone even becomes aware that they needed help. Hence, the button idea / solution. And, yes, we are also working on trying to have a caregiver come in regularly to check-in on them. Even once we get that in place, it doesn't preclude the benefits of a button, imo.

For now, I guess on my list of things I am looking for are the following:

- easy to use and unobtrusive (will likely need to "sell" the idea to my parents)
- reliable, obviously
- ideally, no contract or high start-up fees (given their reluctance or desire to have one)

What else should I be considering? Anyone with experience to recommend on good or bad providers?

The attached list has "top 10", based on geographic area, though as the organization apparently can receive advertising revenue from companies I wonder about its objectivity.

https://www.consumersadvocate.org/medic ... gJ82_D_BwE

Thank you.
First of all, make sure you're "treating the patient." What I mean by that is that many people buy these things for their parents to make THEMSELVES feel better. Don't do that. Old people fall. Sometimes they lay there for a few hours or overnight before they're found. I suppose sometimes they even become more injured or ill or even die because they were not found for an extended period of time. But we're talking about someone who is already in the last years of life. One of the best indicators of life expectancy, at least in later decades, is how fast someone can walk across the room. Someone you are worried is going to fall and not be able to get up is already having trouble walking. They're probably not long for this world and no device you can hang around their neck or put on their arm is really going to change that by any significant margin.

So ask your parents whether they'd rather wear the device or lay there for a few hours waiting for help and do what they want to do without feeling guilty about THEIR DECISION in any way. You probably shouldn't "sell it" to them.

Second, remember that the device doesn't prevent the fall in the first place and that's probably a better place to spend time, money, and effort. The bathroom is a great place to start. Walkers actually work pretty well if the person will use it. A live-in caretaker isn't cheap, but might be a much better use of someone's money than leaving a larger inheritance.

Third, I'd make sure the device has a way to turn off a false alarm before the cavalry shows up. That might increase compliance.
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Re: Medical alert "button"

Post by URSnshn »

OP I agree with White Coat Invester's comment: "First of all, make sure you're "treating the patient." What I mean by that is that many people buy these things for their parents to make THEMSELVES feel better"

I have had the experience of caregiving for several people. One in particular had a device such as this at the family's insistence. Personally if the person doesn't want it, won't wear it - their opinion counts - and so life has risks. Even when there is 24/7 care - there are risks. When we "tend" too much for others their spirit and independence can whither. I'd rather trust them and their decisions and the risks they want to take, do what is helpful and move on.

I don't want to "sell" anyone of any age on these devices or other similar products. The message they send may not only whither the spirit - they may send untended messages as well.

I was a major part of "the family who insisted that a family member have such a device". I would not insist so today. It seemed so practical, so obvious, so purposeful - that little device - and for all that I'd never propose it today.

That said, there are many situations and some people may want to wear them for all kinds of reasons. I'm sure you'll do what is best in yours. Good luck!

Edited to add a clarification.
Last edited by URSnshn on Wed Jul 24, 2019 11:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Medical alert "button"

Post by KT785 »

tc101 wrote: Tue Jul 23, 2019 11:08 am I just read over this thread and found it helpful. The last post was over a year ago, and with technology changing so quickly I would like to know if there are any new thoughts on this topic.
One thought is if the person has an iPhone, an Apple Watch may be a viable solution. The newest edition (series 4) has fall detection built in. It's certainly less conspicuous than a medical alert pendent or bracelet (and has other functions); the main issue I see is the need to charge the device daily. I suppose screen size, usability, and need to have an iPhone are other issues--but I know a great many advanced (in age :wink: ) seniors who use iPhones with relative proficiency.

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Re: Medical alert "button"

Post by iasw »

My grandma has LifeAlert and she wears it as a necklace. I had to activate it for her last week, as she fainted and I was able to get to her before she hit the ground. My phone was in the other room, so I pushed the button and the speaker box in the other room was activated.

I told the LifeAlert person that we needed medical assistance, and she sent it while staying on the line.

They then called my aunt, who came over and arrived a minute after ambulance.

LifeAlert also asked who I was, and i only gave my first name. I'm in their system as a contact person, and my phone rang a moment later. My child brought my phone to me and it was the county 911 dispatcher asking for more info.

LifeAlert has the garage code, and so if we weren't able to answer the door, they could come in through the garage.

Grandma, due to fainting, was not able to push the button. I don't know if she would have when she came to, if she was alone. It does not have fall detection as far as I'm aware, and i didn't realize that tech existed. Seems worthwhile.

I like that emergency family contacts can be reached, and that they confirm an issue before sending help. False alarms have happened, and it was just a quick, whoops accidentally pushed the button, and LifeAlert ended the call.

It can be scary when someone falls or faints or has some issue, and pushing a button is really nice.
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Re: Medical alert "button"

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White Coat Investor wrote: Tue Jul 23, 2019 11:58 am First of all, make sure you're "treating the patient." What I mean by that is that many people buy these things for their parents to make THEMSELVES feel better. Don't do that. Old people fall. Sometimes they lay there for a few hours or overnight before they're found. I suppose sometimes they even become more injured or ill or even die because they were not found for an extended period of time. But we're talking about someone who is already in the last years of life. One of the best indicators of life expectancy, at least in later decades, is how fast someone can walk across the room. Someone you are worried is going to fall and not be able to get up is already having trouble walking. They're probably not long for this world and no device you can hang around their neck or put on their arm is really going to change that by any significant margin.
Excuse me. Due to a doctor misdiagnosing a hip stress fracture from exercising as "mild arthritis", my joints below the waist are all non-optimal, as apparently "walking funny" to compensate screws them up, but I can walk at a reasonable speed across a room. If I were to fall, I would have to get myself near something I could pull myself up on, and a chair, sofa, etc does not make it. I have to get near something small like a foot stool then from there to a chair. This is due to the knees not being able to be kneeled on without significant pain, thanks, first ortho doc.

(I have practiced, so I know what works.)

I prefer that someone not use your guidelines and decide that I am not long for this world, when I have every hope of lasting twenty more years or so. My heart, lungs, etc., are all in good shape.

Any number of people are in wheelchairs and can't walk across a room at all, but are not slated for the rubbish pile for decades.
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Re: Medical alert "button"

Post by sleepysurf »

littlebird wrote: Sat Apr 21, 2018 10:17 am ...Another possibility now available is the Amazon Echo or Dot, possibly several. While they cannot, at this time, reach 911, you can set them up to reach a cooperative family member or neighbor by voice only...
Actually, if there's a landline, the Amazon Echo Connect (see... https://www.amazon.com/Echo-Connect-req ... B076ZRFP6Y) can be paired with Echo Dot(s) to enable direct 911 calls, with no monthly fees. As previously mentioned, Dots, by themselves, can dial a friend/relative using VOIP (but not 911).

I just set this system up for my 88 y/o Mother, who lives alone, and is 1+ hour from me. She was reluctant to wear a monitoring bracelet/necklace, but is somewhat tech savvy, and agreed to TRY the Amazon Dot plus Echo Connect. I installed five Dots around her house, such that she can call out to one from any room (including bathroom/shower). I had her spend an hour "practicing" how to use them, and we also "tested" the 911 capability (after checking with local police Dept for protocol) and ensured it properly displays her address. She really likes the Dots, as she can listen to music and interact with "Alexa" everywhere, and even answer incoming calls hands-free.

Just in case, I also installed a "combination lockbox" near her front door with spare key inside. If her situation isn't critical, she'll call me or a sibling first, and, if indicated, we'll call 911 for her, and give them the lockbox code. In a true emergency she'd call 911 herself. Obviously, this solution isn't perfect, if she's rendered unconscious.
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Re: Medical alert "button"

Post by fru-gal »

FI4LIFE wrote: Tue Jul 23, 2019 11:45 am Assuming the person is mentally sound and able to speak, I would consider getting amazon echo (Alexa) throughout the house so they can just tell it to call 911 and they can speak directly to the 911 call-taker. No middle man. As someone who responds to medical alert device activations through my job, I can tell you a majority are false alarms. This can lead to people not wanting to wear their pendants due to constant false activations. I have not found any one "life alert" system to be better than another.
What's with the false alarms? That's why I don't have one of these, the fear that the cops would break down my door and the cat would get outside and get lost, when I wasn't even near my house and had no idea that the thing had alarmed.

A house system is no use if someone falls outside the house.
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Re: Medical alert "button"

Post by FI4LIFE »

fru-gal wrote: Tue Jul 23, 2019 5:15 pm
FI4LIFE wrote: Tue Jul 23, 2019 11:45 am Assuming the person is mentally sound and able to speak, I would consider getting amazon echo (Alexa) throughout the house so they can just tell it to call 911 and they can speak directly to the 911 call-taker. No middle man. As someone who responds to medical alert device activations through my job, I can tell you a majority are false alarms. This can lead to people not wanting to wear their pendants due to constant false activations. I have not found any one "life alert" system to be better than another.
What's with the false alarms? That's why I don't have one of these, the fear that the cops would break down my door and the cat would get outside and get lost, when I wasn't even near my house and had no idea that the thing had alarmed.

A house system is no use if someone falls outside the house.
Some of the pendants are overly sensitive and the wearers of such pendants are often hard of hearing, so they do not hear the phone ring when the life alert people call. This leads to fire/ems being dispatched.

I don't want to dissuade anyone from getting one as they help a lot of people. Amazon echo may better suit your individual needs.
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Re: Medical alert "button"

Post by White Coat Investor »

fru-gal wrote: Tue Jul 23, 2019 5:00 pm
White Coat Investor wrote: Tue Jul 23, 2019 11:58 am First of all, make sure you're "treating the patient." What I mean by that is that many people buy these things for their parents to make THEMSELVES feel better. Don't do that. Old people fall. Sometimes they lay there for a few hours or overnight before they're found. I suppose sometimes they even become more injured or ill or even die because they were not found for an extended period of time. But we're talking about someone who is already in the last years of life. One of the best indicators of life expectancy, at least in later decades, is how fast someone can walk across the room. Someone you are worried is going to fall and not be able to get up is already having trouble walking. They're probably not long for this world and no device you can hang around their neck or put on their arm is really going to change that by any significant margin.
Excuse me. Due to a doctor misdiagnosing a hip stress fracture from exercising as "mild arthritis", my joints below the waist are all non-optimal, as apparently "walking funny" to compensate screws them up, but I can walk at a reasonable speed across a room. If I were to fall, I would have to get myself near something I could pull myself up on, and a chair, sofa, etc does not make it. I have to get near something small like a foot stool then from there to a chair. This is due to the knees not being able to be kneeled on without significant pain, thanks, first ortho doc.

(I have practiced, so I know what works.)

I prefer that someone not use your guidelines and decide that I am not long for this world, when I have every hope of lasting twenty more years or so. My heart, lungs, etc., are all in good shape.

Any number of people are in wheelchairs and can't walk across a room at all, but are not slated for the rubbish pile for decades.
It's obviously not a perfect prediction tool. I mean, look at a 20 year old in a wheelchair, right? But there is a correlation among the elderly. When you have enough medical problems (deconditioning, heart failure whatever) that you walk slowly, your life expectancy is lower than otherwise.

If you want a medic-alert device, then buy one. But don't force one on someone else that doesn't want one. They won't use it anyway.
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