[Balancing school workload and family time]

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SimonJester
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[Balancing school workload and family time]

Post by SimonJester » Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:28 am

[Split into a new thread from: Child expenses - what to expect as your kids go from daycare to school --admin LadyGeek]
AMG79 wrote:
Fri Apr 13, 2018 7:41 am
Westcoaster7... this is my question exactly. These responses have been very helpful for me so thanks for posing the question. We have two more years of high childcare costs and then I think we are going to plan to continue to put a good portion of the money we are spending now into an account earmarked for all of these expenses other parents are talking about. Some can go into 529s but it seems like there won't be much reprieve before new expenses arise. What do you think of that approach?
I would switch it around and put a good portion of the money into the 529 account and some into savings for the expensive extras. For the most part you can control many of these extras. We told our kids they could do one extra curricular activity outside of school and one attached to school. Ie Scouts outside of school and Music or swimming team with school.

You have to balance their school workload and the overall family time. Ie we are not going to running around to 20 different activities each week. From middle school onward my kids were expected to do 6-8+ hours of home work every night.

College costs are a real issue and I would say for most all Bogleheads financial aid means Parent Plus loans. Scholarships are VERY competitive even if you kids has a 4.0+ GPA.
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin

Loik098
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Re: Child expenses - what to expect as your kids go from daycare to school

Post by Loik098 » Tue Apr 17, 2018 4:03 pm

SimonJester wrote:
Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:28 am

You have to balance their school workload and the overall family time. Ie we are not going to running around to 20 different activities each week. From middle school onward my kids were expected to do 6-8+ hours of home work every night.
:shock:

With that much homework, how is there any time left for any sort of "balance"?

In your estimation, how much of this time was spent doing work vs. messing around? As kids in the 80s, my sister and I certainly didn't have anywhere close to this amount of homework. If expectations have changed in this area, I'll probably want some proof from my kids' future teachers that giving more homework is directly correlated to better educational outcomes. That's ridiculous.

SimonJester
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Re: Child expenses - what to expect as your kids go from daycare to school

Post by SimonJester » Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:17 pm

Loik098 wrote:
Tue Apr 17, 2018 4:03 pm
SimonJester wrote:
Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:28 am

You have to balance their school workload and the overall family time. Ie we are not going to running around to 20 different activities each week. From middle school onward my kids were expected to do 6-8+ hours of home work every night.
:shock:

With that much homework, how is there any time left for any sort of "balance"?

In your estimation, how much of this time was spent doing work vs. messing around? As kids in the 80s, my sister and I certainly didn't have anywhere close to this amount of homework. If expectations have changed in this area, I'll probably want some proof from my kids' future teachers that giving more homework is directly correlated to better educational outcomes. That's ridiculous.
Believe me it was all work, I sat with my kids at the dinner table watching and helping them. Many a night my kids did homework from about 3:00 pm until 11:00pm with an hour break for dinner.

It usually consisted of an hour or so of math, an english report, science worksheet, social studies worksheet, at least one "Major" project a week in one class, plus music instrument practice. It seems most of the class time was taken up going over the homework from the previous night. We couldn't believe the amount of homework the kids were expected to do. When you approach the teachers you got the standard line, this is what the district / State is pushing to ready every kid for college. Ready every kid for college in the 6th grade?

Then they spend two months going over how to take the state mandated tests and what material will be on the test. My kids got so fed up taking the yearly state mandated tests they eventually just stopped, ie they filled in all one answer on multiple guess, or turned the scantron over and colored a picture out of the bubble boxes.

By the time they hit their Junior / Senior year they are burnt out.


In high school my kids found out quickly that Honors and AP classes did not mean more in depth learning, it mean faster paced plus more home work. Read one Shakespearean type novel a week with a 6-12 page essay, but little time to discuss / reflect on the material.
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin

Loik098
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Re: Child expenses - what to expect as your kids go from daycare to school

Post by Loik098 » Tue Apr 17, 2018 9:46 pm

SimonJester wrote:
Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:17 pm
Loik098 wrote:
Tue Apr 17, 2018 4:03 pm
SimonJester wrote:
Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:28 am

You have to balance their school workload and the overall family time. Ie we are not going to running around to 20 different activities each week. From middle school onward my kids were expected to do 6-8+ hours of home work every night.
:shock:

With that much homework, how is there any time left for any sort of "balance"?

In your estimation, how much of this time was spent doing work vs. messing around? As kids in the 80s, my sister and I certainly didn't have anywhere close to this amount of homework. If expectations have changed in this area, I'll probably want some proof from my kids' future teachers that giving more homework is directly correlated to better educational outcomes. That's ridiculous.
Believe me it was all work, I sat with my kids at the dinner table watching and helping them. Many a night my kids did homework from about 3:00 pm until 11:00pm with an hour break for dinner.

It usually consisted of an hour or so of math, an english report, science worksheet, social studies worksheet, at least one "Major" project a week in one class, plus music instrument practice. It seems most of the class time was taken up going over the homework from the previous night. We couldn't believe the amount of homework the kids were expected to do. When you approach the teachers you got the standard line, this is what the district / State is pushing to ready every kid for college. Ready every kid for college in the 6th grade?

Then they spend two months going over how to take the state mandated tests and what material will be on the test. My kids got so fed up taking the yearly state mandated tests they eventually just stopped, ie they filled in all one answer on multiple guess, or turned the scantron over and colored a picture out of the bubble boxes.

By the time they hit their Junior / Senior year they are burnt out.


In high school my kids found out quickly that Honors and AP classes did not mean more in depth learning, it mean faster paced plus more home work. Read one Shakespearean type novel a week with a 6-12 page essay, but little time to discuss / reflect on the material.
Thanks for sharing all of this detail and experience! I am not looking forward to this.

smitcat
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Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:51 am

Re: Child expenses - what to expect as your kids go from daycare to school

Post by smitcat » Wed Apr 18, 2018 8:06 am

Loik098 wrote:
Tue Apr 17, 2018 9:46 pm
SimonJester wrote:
Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:17 pm
Loik098 wrote:
Tue Apr 17, 2018 4:03 pm
SimonJester wrote:
Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:28 am

You have to balance their school workload and the overall family time. Ie we are not going to running around to 20 different activities each week. From middle school onward my kids were expected to do 6-8+ hours of home work every night.
:shock:

With that much homework, how is there any time left for any sort of "balance"?

In your estimation, how much of this time was spent doing work vs. messing around? As kids in the 80s, my sister and I certainly didn't have anywhere close to this amount of homework. If expectations have changed in this area, I'll probably want some proof from my kids' future teachers that giving more homework is directly correlated to better educational outcomes. That's ridiculous.
Believe me it was all work, I sat with my kids at the dinner table watching and helping them. Many a night my kids did homework from about 3:00 pm until 11:00pm with an hour break for dinner.

It usually consisted of an hour or so of math, an english report, science worksheet, social studies worksheet, at least one "Major" project a week in one class, plus music instrument practice. It seems most of the class time was taken up going over the homework from the previous night. We couldn't believe the amount of homework the kids were expected to do. When you approach the teachers you got the standard line, this is what the district / State is pushing to ready every kid for college. Ready every kid for college in the 6th grade?

Then they spend two months going over how to take the state mandated tests and what material will be on the test. My kids got so fed up taking the yearly state mandated tests they eventually just stopped, ie they filled in all one answer on multiple guess, or turned the scantron over and colored a picture out of the bubble boxes.

By the time they hit their Junior / Senior year they are burnt out.


In high school my kids found out quickly that Honors and AP classes did not mean more in depth learning, it mean faster paced plus more home work. Read one Shakespearean type novel a week with a 6-12 page essay, but little time to discuss / reflect on the material.
Thanks for sharing all of this detail and experience! I am not looking forward to this.
FWIW - our daughter did not experience even half that time involved in studies during Jr and Sr year. That along with varsity sports, school clubs, college level classes, volunteering, traveling to see potential colleges and learning to drive was not nearly as stressful as what has been described.
YMMV

Beach
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Re: Child expenses - what to expect as your kids go from daycare to school

Post by Beach » Wed Apr 18, 2018 9:54 am

kenyan wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 9:06 am
Beach wrote:
Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:27 am
Our expenses decreased about 50%. Before and after school daycare is still expensive for our public school. Additionally, sports and other activities are eating into our "savings"
This is similar to our experience, though it's more like a 40% reduction for us. The public school schedules around us are extremely unfriendly to working parents (very short school days, random days that are even shorter, plus the myriad of extra holidays/vacations that schools are off for that regular jobs don't get off), and we have to pay a big chunk for before/after school care.

I'm hoping that in a few more years, we'll be comfortable enough for the kids to walk themselves the few blocks to/from school and not get in too much trouble while unsupervised at home for an hour or two, though we'd still have to confront the problem of the extra holidays.
We will be stuck for awhile, our school is too far to walk and I don't trust putting my kids on the bus for a variety of reasons :(

Glockenspiel
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Re: Child expenses - what to expect as your kids go from daycare to school

Post by Glockenspiel » Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:03 am

SimonJester wrote:
Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:28 am

From middle school onward my kids were expected to do 6-8+ hours of home work every night.
Sorry but this just de-railed the thread. I absolutely do not believe this. So basically, your kid worked 13-16 hour days from age 12-18? That is preposterous and so far out of the experience I've had. Middle and high schoolers in my Midwestern city with good public schools don't typically spend more than 2 hours per night on homework.

stoptothink
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Re: Child expenses - what to expect as your kids go from daycare to school

Post by stoptothink » Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:41 am

Glockenspiel wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:03 am
SimonJester wrote:
Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:28 am

From middle school onward my kids were expected to do 6-8+ hours of home work every night.
Sorry but this just de-railed the thread. I absolutely do not believe this. So basically, your kid worked 13-16 hour days from age 12-18? That is preposterous and so far out of the experience I've had. Middle and high schoolers in my Midwestern city with good public schools don't typically spend more than 2 hours per night on homework.
+1. My sister is an honors/AP student at one of the top ranked high schools in the state and might do 8hrs of homework total a week. My stepfather also happens to teach English, including AP English Lit, at said high school. Even at the chance that 6-8hrs a night is expected for SimonJester's kids, that certainly isn't the norm.

smitcat
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Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:51 am

Re: Child expenses - what to expect as your kids go from daycare to school

Post by smitcat » Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:46 am

Glockenspiel wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:03 am
SimonJester wrote:
Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:28 am

From middle school onward my kids were expected to do 6-8+ hours of home work every night.
Sorry but this just de-railed the thread. I absolutely do not believe this. So basically, your kid worked 13-16 hour days from age 12-18? That is preposterous and so far out of the experience I've had. Middle and high schoolers in my Midwestern city with good public schools don't typically spend more than 2 hours per night on homework.
Yes - agreed 100%.

smitcat
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Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:51 am

Re: Child expenses - what to expect as your kids go from daycare to school

Post by smitcat » Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:46 am

stoptothink wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:41 am
Glockenspiel wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:03 am
SimonJester wrote:
Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:28 am

From middle school onward my kids were expected to do 6-8+ hours of home work every night.
Sorry but this just de-railed the thread. I absolutely do not believe this. So basically, your kid worked 13-16 hour days from age 12-18? That is preposterous and so far out of the experience I've had. Middle and high schoolers in my Midwestern city with good public schools don't typically spend more than 2 hours per night on homework.
+1. My sister is an honors/AP student at one of the top ranked high schools in the state and might do 8hrs of homework total a week. My stepfather also happens to teach English, including AP English Lit, at said high school. Even at the chance that 6-8hrs a night is expected for SimonJester's kids, that certainly isn't the norm.
Yes - agreed 100%.

alfaspider
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Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2015 4:44 pm

Re: Child expenses - what to expect as your kids go from daycare to school

Post by alfaspider » Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:12 am

stoptothink wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:41 am
Glockenspiel wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:03 am
SimonJester wrote:
Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:28 am

From middle school onward my kids were expected to do 6-8+ hours of home work every night.
Sorry but this just de-railed the thread. I absolutely do not believe this. So basically, your kid worked 13-16 hour days from age 12-18? That is preposterous and so far out of the experience I've had. Middle and high schoolers in my Midwestern city with good public schools don't typically spend more than 2 hours per night on homework.
+1. My sister is an honors/AP student at one of the top ranked high schools in the state and might do 8hrs of homework total a week. My stepfather also happens to teach English, including AP English Lit, at said high school. Even at the chance that 6-8hrs a night is expected for SimonJester's kids, that certainly isn't the norm.
+2 Being in my early 30s, I am not THAT far away from high school. When I was in high school at a competitive top public, the administrators would tell prospective students and parents that every AP class was expected to have an hour and a half of homework per night. That was nonsense. I, along with most of my friends, were enrolled in 5-6 AP classes at a time and nobody was consistently spending 9 hours on homework a night. If they did, that would have left zero time for commuting to and from school, eating, bathing- not to mention any extracurricular activities. My thought was the reason they told everyone that was to scare marginal students away from taking the classes, as that would create more work for the schools and teachers.

Realistically, students enrolled in advanced classes DO spend a lot of time doing homework, but actual time spent is more like 2-3 hours a night with the occasional slack day and the occasional 6 hour cram session before a big test. Things are a bit worse Junior year, a bit easier Freshman year (much easier second semester Senior year). Three hours is still a lot of homework if you consider they are often at school from 7:30 to 4:30 after extra circulars are accounted for.

The whole thing reminds me a bit of surveys of adults where a huge portion claim to be working 60 hour weeks. When they actually track their time, it turns out they are actually working more like 45. People who were actually working 60 hours often claimed 80.

stoptothink
Posts: 4125
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2010 9:53 am

Re: Child expenses - what to expect as your kids go from daycare to school

Post by stoptothink » Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:21 am

alfaspider wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:12 am
stoptothink wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:41 am
Glockenspiel wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:03 am
SimonJester wrote:
Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:28 am

From middle school onward my kids were expected to do 6-8+ hours of home work every night.
Sorry but this just de-railed the thread. I absolutely do not believe this. So basically, your kid worked 13-16 hour days from age 12-18? That is preposterous and so far out of the experience I've had. Middle and high schoolers in my Midwestern city with good public schools don't typically spend more than 2 hours per night on homework.
+1. My sister is an honors/AP student at one of the top ranked high schools in the state and might do 8hrs of homework total a week. My stepfather also happens to teach English, including AP English Lit, at said high school. Even at the chance that 6-8hrs a night is expected for SimonJester's kids, that certainly isn't the norm.
+2 Being in my early 30s, I am not THAT far away from high school. When I was in high school at a competitive top public, the administrators would tell prospective students and parents that every AP class was expected to have an hour and a half of homework per night. That was nonsense. I, along with most of my friends, were enrolled in 5-6 AP classes at a time and nobody was consistently spending 9 hours on homework a night. If they did, that would have left zero time for commuting to and from school, eating, bathing- not to mention any extracurricular activities. My thought was the reason they told everyone that was to scare marginal students away from taking the classes, as that would create more work for the schools and teachers.

Realistically, students enrolled in advanced classes DO spend a lot of time doing homework, but actual time spent is more like 2-3 hours a night with the occasional slack day and the occasional 6 hour cram session before a big test. Things are a bit worse Junior year, a bit easier Freshman year (much easier second semester Senior year). Three hours is still a lot of homework if you consider they are often at school from 7:30 to 4:30 after extra circulars are accounted for.

The whole thing reminds me a bit of surveys of adults where a huge portion claim to be working 60 hour weeks. When they actually track their time, it turns out they are actually working more like 45. People who were actually working 60 hours often claimed 80.
Exactly. My wife is expected to do 2hrs of studying per class, per day, per her syllabus' as a full-time student in the business program at local U. She works full-time and travels on business, has 2 kids, and also is still a competitive athlete; she might spend 2hrs a week total studying and doing coursework outside of class and is a 4.0 student. Of course experiences vary, but it is no different than when we were in school.

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Re: [Balancing school workload and family time]

Post by LadyGeek » Wed Apr 18, 2018 3:53 pm

SimonJester - I moved your discussion into a new thread.

If you want to change the thread title further, just edit the Subject: line in Post #1.
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SimonJester
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Re: [Balancing school workload and family time]

Post by SimonJester » Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:09 pm

I had this split into its own thread as it was derailing the other thread.

My kids actually saw more homework in middle school and freshman year of high school then the junior and senior years.
Might just be something in my school district but speaking with other parents in other schools they were complaining of the same.

Keep in mind my 6-8 hours also included 2 hours of practicing their music instruments which was the recommended time. In fact in high school they were required to go into private tutoring for their respective music classes.

I never experienced anything close to the level of homework my kids had. It just seemed like instead of reinforcing what was taught at school that day the homework was the actual lesson.

The longer homework sessions were usually when they had some sort of project to do, such as science fair, or building a atom model, or cell model.
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin

DarthSage
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Re: Child expenses - what to expect as your kids go from daycare to school

Post by DarthSage » Thu Apr 19, 2018 6:04 am

alfaspider wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:12 am
stoptothink wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:41 am
Glockenspiel wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:03 am
SimonJester wrote:
Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:28 am

From middle school onward my kids were expected to do 6-8+ hours of home work every night.
Sorry but this just de-railed the thread. I absolutely do not believe this. So basically, your kid worked 13-16 hour days from age 12-18? That is preposterous and so far out of the experience I've had. Middle and high schoolers in my Midwestern city with good public schools don't typically spend more than 2 hours per night on homework.
+1. My sister is an honors/AP student at one of the top ranked high schools in the state and might do 8hrs of homework total a week. My stepfather also happens to teach English, including AP English Lit, at said high school. Even at the chance that 6-8hrs a night is expected for SimonJester's kids, that certainly isn't the norm.
+2 Being in my early 30s, I am not THAT far away from high school. When I was in high school at a competitive top public, the administrators would tell prospective students and parents that every AP class was expected to have an hour and a half of homework per night. That was nonsense. I, along with most of my friends, were enrolled in 5-6 AP classes at a time and nobody was consistently spending 9 hours on homework a night. If they did, that would have left zero time for commuting to and from school, eating, bathing- not to mention any extracurricular activities. My thought was the reason they told everyone that was to scare marginal students away from taking the classes, as that would create more work for the schools and teachers.

Realistically, students enrolled in advanced classes DO spend a lot of time doing homework, but actual time spent is more like 2-3 hours a night with the occasional slack day and the occasional 6 hour cram session before a big test. Things are a bit worse Junior year, a bit easier Freshman year (much easier second semester Senior year). Three hours is still a lot of homework if you consider they are often at school from 7:30 to 4:30 after extra circulars are accounted for.

The whole thing reminds me a bit of surveys of adults where a huge portion claim to be working 60 hour weeks. When they actually track their time, it turns out they are actually working more like 45. People who were actually working 60 hours often claimed 80.
+3. My DD14 is a straight-A, all-honors classes kid, who is also an advanced and talented cellist. She's very serious about her schoolwork (and her cello), and her study/practice time is nowhere near this. She probably spends 2-3 hours on homework--sometimes less, sometimes more if there's a project. She also manages to work in 8 hours of dance and a couple hours a week at a job. Her cello tutor tells her she should be practicing 45 minutes a day, which she does--but, she's not planning on a career in music. However, she's first chair.

Now, I expect next year to be tougher for her--she'll be doubling up on math and science, in preparation for getting an IB diploma.

I also have a 6th grader who, this week, has no homework--he did his math homework in class and already handed it in for the week. More typically, he might have 30 minutes a night--but, he also makes good use of mandatory study hall.

smitcat
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Re: [Balancing school workload and family time]

Post by smitcat » Thu Apr 19, 2018 7:26 am

SimonJester wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:09 pm
I had this split into its own thread as it was derailing the other thread.

My kids actually saw more homework in middle school and freshman year of high school then the junior and senior years.
Might just be something in my school district but speaking with other parents in other schools they were complaining of the same.

Keep in mind my 6-8 hours also included 2 hours of practicing their music instruments which was the recommended time. In fact in high school they were required to go into private tutoring for their respective music classes.

I never experienced anything close to the level of homework my kids had. It just seemed like instead of reinforcing what was taught at school that day the homework was the actual lesson.

The longer homework sessions were usually when they had some sort of project to do, such as science fair, or building a atom model, or cell model.
Thank you for the clarification but in our case it was still not even half what you have described. Our daughter graduated HS in 2011 with 12 college credits completed, 2 varsity letters Jr and senior year, a number of clubs, NHS, volunteering at the Hospital, and she worked part time when it overlapped the summers. All in a highly rated and competitive LI NY high school.
FWIW - her study time more than doubled during college and grad school so taking that same ratio and using your 6 hrs a day they will need 12 hours a day in college.
What school district?

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