Help with shared child being spoiled

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ddurrett896
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Help with shared child being spoiled

Post by ddurrett896 » Wed Apr 11, 2018 5:22 pm

Have a child from a previous marriage currently split custody 50/50.

The child's grandparents from the exs side are awesome people and grandparents, however they spoil our child to the point where he is always asking for things when shopping. I get kids ask for things - it's natural, but this is non-stop. Was just in a store and he continued asking for things and we never give in.

I don't think it's the right move to ask the grandparent to stop spoiling him and frankly that's their right. The kids is happy, so I'm happy! What I'd like to know is if anyone had a similar issue (even with a child you have full custody of) and how it was corrected.

My thinking was to maybe tie it to a job. For example, he asks for a $5 toy and the response is "ok but it's going to cost you 2 bags of raked leaves when we get home."

Any input is appreciated!

McCharley
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Re: Help with shared child being spoiled

Post by McCharley » Wed Apr 11, 2018 5:38 pm

It is important for kids to have a sense of the value of a dollar. I recommend an allowance, tied to chores and grades, so your child can have their own money to spend or to save in Boglehead fashion. Later, when they are in a position to get a job, I would recommend that they do unpaid internships or volunteering -- the kind of "extras" that will get them into a good college -- and that you "pay" them to do these things.

You might encourage the grandparents to give money instead of just what the kid asks for.

I started working in all manner of entry-level jobs as early as I could (dishwasher, waiter, lawn mowing, whatever). I do not recommend this route because in my experience it doesn't teach responsibility. The restaurant world in particular was/is full of drugs and irresponsibility. :beer

JoeRetire
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Re: Help with shared child being spoiled

Post by JoeRetire » Wed Apr 11, 2018 5:43 pm

Kids are very flexible. They can easily understand that different rules apply in different contexts.

My wife and I watch our two grandchildren every Thursday night and Friday. At home, they have a fair amount of "screen time", but none with Nana and Papa. At 5 and 3 they already understand that the rules are different in our home.

Just figure out what you want, understanding that not all battles are worth fighting. Then be firm and completely consistent. "I'm sorry, but we just don't do that here." will be understood eventually.

annielouise
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Re: Help with shared child being spoiled

Post by annielouise » Wed Apr 11, 2018 5:45 pm

My answer will be different than others.

I do not believe in paying a child for chores. Families, in my opinion, do not charge each other to help. Families help out because they are a team. You don't make your child pay for the dinner you make, or the clothes you wash, and they should not expect to be paid for making a bed, doing yard work, etc. They can earn money working for other people, so that is an option, especially if you teach them how to do lots of jobs first.

Do you have a budget? What we did was put our child in charge of a portion of the budget that concerned him. For example, if we budgeted $10 a month for his toys/books then he was in charge of choosing when and how that money was spent. Snacks/desserts is another option. Later I put him in charge of his clothing and entertainment budgets, by that time we were transferring the money to his account so he had full control. Once he had a job at 16, we helped him start his own budget.

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Sandtrap
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Re: Help with shared child being spoiled

Post by Sandtrap » Wed Apr 11, 2018 5:47 pm

This is a difficult position.
An enabled child grows up with a feeling of entitlement. Rewards based on simply existing vs merit.

Values and behaviors are "instilled" not innate. Empowerment is based on age and maturity and life experience.

The sense of family and community, unity, and moral obligation comes from values, first, not rewards, not a paycheck (allowance), etc.

Perhaps you need to set boundaries and limitations on the raising and nurturing of your child as "his" parent. How to do it would be awkward but should be respected.
The other awkward position for you is that you will come off as the "bad guy" and that disempowers you which should not happen.

Unfortunately, the child will bear the full consequence of all this in his behavior, values, etc. And, you will bear the burden of guiding him henceforth.

Perhaps time to communicate to all parties.

aloha
j :D

staythecourse
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Re: Help with shared child being spoiled

Post by staythecourse » Wed Apr 11, 2018 5:52 pm

It may be their grandchild, but your kid. Talk to the other parent and discuss the best plan. If that means telling the grandparents to lay off of buying gifts that is okay. It isn't like you are doing it to punish the grandparents, but to prevent your kids from being spoiled and not understanding the value of a dollar. I have already told both sets of grandparents that I do NOT approve of any expensive gifts for the kids. That included giving back a $1000 check for one of their birthdays and $100 for lost tooth. Anything more then occasional clothing item or toy is a no-no to me.

I told my kids (the oldest being only KG) that they ONLY free stuff they get (gifts) is twice a year (birthday and Christmas). Everything else has to be earned just like in real life (no free handouts). Good behavior gets stuff (reward) and bad behavior gets no reward. Luckily, neither of my kids ever ask for anything (maybe a chicken and the egg situation though).

Good luck.
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Kenkat
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Re: Help with shared child being spoiled

Post by Kenkat » Wed Apr 11, 2018 6:05 pm

When the child asks you for things, tell them to ask grandma and grandpa because the money train doesn’t make a stop at our house...

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Pajamas
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Re: Help with shared child being spoiled

Post by Pajamas » Wed Apr 11, 2018 6:06 pm

When I was a child I understood that the rules were different with my grandparents than with my parents. If your son is old enough to rake leaves, he is old enough to understand that. Trying to change your ex's parents' behavior is probably not worth it, especially since that sort of behavior is expected.
Kenkat wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 6:05 pm
When the child asks you for things, tell them to ask grandma and grandpa because the money train doesn’t make a stop at our house...
Yes, that is exactly the sort of thing I meant. . . :D

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VictoriaF
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Re: Help with shared child being spoiled

Post by VictoriaF » Wed Apr 11, 2018 6:11 pm

ddurrett896 wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 5:22 pm
I don't think it's the right move to ask the grandparent to stop spoiling him and frankly that's their right.
No, it is not. Nobody has rights over your child. You have the rights. And you have the responsibility to raise your child according to your values.

Victoria
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Doom&Gloom
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Re: Help with shared child being spoiled

Post by Doom&Gloom » Wed Apr 11, 2018 6:12 pm

I would tell his grandparents that they can make more of an impact on their grandson by helping to fund his college education. And I would educate them on how best to do that if necessary--it probably is. I would emphasize that their generosity is appreciated, but their grandson will certainly have more appreciation and a longer lasting memory of how they helped him with his education rather than bringing home a new toy after each visit with them.

I would tell them that we prefer that they restrict gifts to Christmas, birthdays, and other special occasions. I would add that I hate having to donate so many of their gifts to Goodwill etc after such a short time of use, and that their grandson naturally tires of some and there simply isn't room for so many things to accumulate.

Good luck. It is a touchy situation.

gmc4h232
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Re: Help with shared child being spoiled

Post by gmc4h232 » Wed Apr 11, 2018 7:51 pm

ddurrett896 wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 5:22 pm
My thinking was to maybe tie it to a job. For example, he asks for a $5 toy and the response is "ok but it's going to cost you 2 bags of raked leaves when we get home."
Get the 2 bags of raked leaves up front, and btw you can fit a lot more leaves in a bag if they are ground up....just sayin

indexonlyplease
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Re: Help with shared child being spoiled

Post by indexonlyplease » Wed Apr 11, 2018 8:26 pm

ddurrett896 wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 5:22 pm
Have a child from a previous marriage currently split custody 50/50.

The child's grandparents from the exs side are awesome people and grandparents, however they spoil our child to the point where he is always asking for things when shopping. I get kids ask for things - it's natural, but this is non-stop. Was just in a store and he continued asking for things and we never give in.

I don't think it's the right move to ask the grandparent to stop spoiling him and frankly that's their right. The kids is happy, so I'm happy! What I'd like to know is if anyone had a similar issue (even with a child you have full custody of) and how it was corrected.

My thinking was to maybe tie it to a job. For example, he asks for a $5 toy and the response is "ok but it's going to cost you 2 bags of raked leaves when we get home."

Any input is appreciated!
How old is the child and how many times a week is he seeing the grandparents. Our kids were spoiled by the grandparent but they never behave that when when with us.

You state we never give in who is WE. Is this your new boyfriend/husband. Maybe your child is just lashing out when with the new family. If this is the case. I will have to ask Dr. Laura.

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arcticpineapplecorp.
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Re: Help with shared child being spoiled

Post by arcticpineapplecorp. » Wed Apr 11, 2018 9:20 pm

maybe share the following information with the grandparents:

https://www.google.com/search?q=marshma ... fox-b-1-ab

If they want their grandchildren to succeed they'll teach delayed gratification, not instant gratification. If not, why do the grandparents want their grandchildren to grow up to fail?

40 Years of Stanford Research Found That People With This One Quality Are More Likely to Succeed
https://jamesclear.com/delayed-gratification


What the Marshmallow Test Really Teaches About Self-Control

One of the most influential modern psychologists, Walter Mischel, addresses misconceptions about his study, and discusses how both adults and kids can master willpower.
https://www.theatlantic.com/health/arch ... ol/380673/
"Invest we must." -- Jack Bogle | “The purpose of investing is not to simply optimise returns and make yourself rich. The purpose is not to die poor.” -- William Bernstein

SrGrumpy
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Re: Help with shared child being spoiled

Post by SrGrumpy » Wed Apr 11, 2018 9:27 pm

Is that the only example - kid being obnoxious while shopping? Or are his values askew in other areas? It may or may not be solely related to the "awesome" grandparents - it could be spoiled peers, or other influences. Or, as mentioned above, indicative of other issues that need addressing. Kids love to push boundaries, and then they get bored and move on. Well, I do.

a2_alice
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Re: Help with shared child being spoiled

Post by a2_alice » Wed Apr 11, 2018 10:13 pm

The least work for you would be to get the ex and grandparents to agree not to buy stuff impulsively at the store. If you don’t expect them to stop buying stuff, ask them to agree with your child on what they will buy before they go into the store, so he knows there’s a plan. Even if it’s not specific and something like “one toy.” But that may be easier said than done.

I would try setting up a behavior chart for this at your house. Think of a reward your child would really like (preferably not a purchase, ideally an activity he enjoys with you) and work toward it. Make it clear what the reward is, the behavior you’re looking for (not asking for anything in the store) and how many good behavior events it will take to get the reward. The number of events must be achievable and you have to be consistent. Remind him of your expectation and that he’s working toward a goal before a shopping trip, and praise him for good behavior. (Just explaining in case you haven’t used one before.)

I help facilitate a parenting class for kids this age and find it to be a pretty effective solution for targeting specific, chronic misbehaviors.

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Alexa9
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Re: Help with shared child being spoiled

Post by Alexa9 » Wed Apr 11, 2018 10:17 pm

I would have a talk with the grandparents and set some rules (gifts/candy at birthday and holidays only, etc.).
If they want a gift at other times, it can only be books or college savings, etc.
They should have fun with grandparents but everyday shouldn't be their birthday party.

Beensabu
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Re: Help with shared child being spoiled

Post by Beensabu » Wed Apr 11, 2018 11:15 pm

I'm just going to leave this here: The Risks of Rewards

My kiddo went through this phase. I suggest engaging your child in the shopping experience. I chat with my kid non-stop while shopping. About what we need to get, what's next on the list, where do we find that, which aisle we're going down and why, do they see the item, where is it, how many zucchinis should we get and let's count, this is on sale, what was your favorite part of today so far, let's unload the cart, etc. It keeps the attention focused on interacting with you, helping with the shopping, feeling good about helping, and actually learning how to do it. Now, I only get asks in the checkout if the person in front is taking forever. And once in awhile, I say okay to a bag of chips - whatever.
"The only thing that makes life possible is permanent, intolerable uncertainty; not knowing what comes next."

a2_alice
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Re: Help with shared child being spoiled

Post by a2_alice » Thu Apr 12, 2018 12:55 am

Beensabu wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 11:15 pm
I'm just going to leave this here: The Risks of Rewards

My kiddo went through this phase. I suggest engaging your child in the shopping experience. I chat with my kid non-stop while shopping. About what we need to get, what's next on the list, where do we find that, which aisle we're going down and why, do they see the item, where is it, how many zucchinis should we get and let's count, this is on sale, what was your favorite part of today so far, let's unload the cart, etc. It keeps the attention focused on interacting with you, helping with the shopping, feeling good about helping, and actually learning how to do it. Now, I only get asks in the checkout if the person in front is taking forever. And once in awhile, I say okay to a bag of chips - whatever.
I’m assuming your link was in reply to my suggestion. When you use a shared activity as the reward instead of a material item, completing the behavior chart is a celebration of good behavior, not a transactional relationship. Behavior charts are often used in detrimental ways, and can be shaming. However, I supposed that someone on this forum posting a thoughtful question about how to cope with misbehavior is going to be able to use a chart in a positive way. I also supposed that OP has already tried interacting with his/her kid...but by all means OP, do that first.

I agree with a lot of Alfie Kohn’s views, by the way.

Beensabu
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Re: Help with shared child being spoiled

Post by Beensabu » Thu Apr 12, 2018 1:49 am

a2_alice wrote:I’m assuming your link was in reply to my suggestion. When you use a shared activity as the reward instead of a material item, completing the behavior chart is a celebration of good behavior, not a transactional relationship. Behavior charts are often used in detrimental ways, and can be shaming. However, I supposed that someone on this forum posting a thoughtful question about how to cope with misbehavior is going to be able to use a chart in a positive way. I also supposed that OP has already tried interacting with his/her kid...but by all means OP, do that first.
I left the link due to a few posts. Rewards work to obtain desired behavior, but they kill intrinsic motivation, self-drive, and creation of an internal value system -- perseverance for passion's sake, doing something because it's the right thing to do. Shared activities with a loved one are a wonderful reward, but you run the risk of turning that into an emotional transaction: the need to buy attention and time by performing desired behavior. Attention, time, and love are a given. Tying them to a reward can be confusing.

Perhaps OP has tried my approach alreday. In certain stressful moments or intervals, though, some things just don't come to mind. Just trying to help, as I know you are as well. I've definitely used rewards at times -- it's just not the best long-term go-to, and it can easily become a crutch without realizing it.
"The only thing that makes life possible is permanent, intolerable uncertainty; not knowing what comes next."

Hillview
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Re: Help with shared child being spoiled

Post by Hillview » Thu Apr 12, 2018 6:07 am

Had to know if it just the kid or if the grandparents are contributing to an issue. I wouldn't tie it to chores. If the child is ~ 6 or older, I WOULD give an allowance and let them spend it as they want to -- over time they will learn a lot. If the child is younger I would say it is totally age appropriate (regardless of grandparent) and go with rules going into the store (we are not buying anything, if we have time on the way home we can stop and look at the puppies but if we cannot get out of the store in time we won't have time) and natural consequences. Additionally I'd come up with one quick response "the rule is we only buy toys on birthdays" for ALL requests

Leemiller
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Re: Help with shared child being spoiled

Post by Leemiller » Thu Apr 12, 2018 7:04 am

My grandmother spoiled me with gifts of cash and it didn’t ruin me for life. I certainly didn’t ask - more than once - for something when we were out. Some of the above responses just feel extreme.

I don’t take my kid to stores very much, but when we do I’ve explained to her that she won’t always get something. So when we buy a friend’s birthday present - she doesn’t get one too - which isn’t the case for all her friends apparently. Also, when we are on vacation I emphasize being ‘picky’ and sure about what you want. We usually get her something when we travel as a keepsake. Also, that we should get good value for what we pay for and that not everything is worth it.

Generally, I tell my kid that my job is to teach her how to be the kind of person that other people want to be around and complaining and whining isn’t it. I reinforce this by telling her good comments I get about her from others. I will say that I personally struggle with how much I can spoil my kids vs what is good for them.

ddurrett896
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Re: Help with shared child being spoiled

Post by ddurrett896 » Thu Apr 12, 2018 8:39 am

indexonlyplease wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 8:26 pm
You state we never give in who is WE.
Married. Child is 13 and we have been married since age 2.

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12345
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Re: Help with shared child being spoiled

Post by 12345 » Thu Apr 12, 2018 8:46 am

ddurrett896 wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 5:22 pm
Have a child from a previous marriage currently split custody 50/50.

The child's grandparents from the exs side are awesome people and grandparents, however they spoil our child to the point where he is always asking for things when shopping. I get kids ask for things - it's natural, but this is non-stop. Was just in a store and he continued asking for things and we never give in.

I don't think it's the right move to ask the grandparent to stop spoiling him and frankly that's their right. The kids is happy, so I'm happy! What I'd like to know is if anyone had a similar issue (even with a child you have full custody of) and how it was corrected.

My thinking was to maybe tie it to a job. For example, he asks for a $5 toy and the response is "ok but it's going to cost you 2 bags of raked leaves when we get home."

Any input is appreciated!

Yeah it is difficult issue. You need try to explain your children value of money. It helps them in future

Glockenspiel
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Re: Help with shared child being spoiled

Post by Glockenspiel » Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:16 am

ddurrett896 wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 5:22 pm

I don't think it's the right move to ask the grandparent to stop spoiling him and frankly that's their right. The kids is happy, so I'm happy! What I'd like to know is if anyone had a similar issue (even with a child you have full custody of) and how it was corrected.
Why would it not be right to ask the grandparent to stop spoiling him? If my parents wanted to buy my child an iPad I would absolutely shut that down.

My kid is 3 and never asks for toys when we're in a store. Why? Because he doesn't know any different. He doesn't know that he can ask for a toy and get it. My kid also never asks for juice to drink. Why? Because he has only had it twice in his life and probably doesn't even like it. The point is, not every kid intrinsically wants these things if they don't know any different.

Kids are tremendously adaptable to their environment. If they live in an environment where they're spoiled, well, they're going to act spoiled. If they are raised in an environment where they are allowed to watch TV for 4 hours a day, then they're going to want to watch TV a lot.

This is your child and you have the right to dictate how they are raised. I 100% agree with Beensabu's post about constantly engaging your child and asking them questions they have to think about. They can learn so much just from a trip to the store.

barnaclebob
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Re: Help with shared child being spoiled

Post by barnaclebob » Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:16 am

ddurrett896 wrote:
Thu Apr 12, 2018 8:39 am
Child is 13 and we have been married since age 2.
Show him/her this thread and how everyone assumed it was a 5 year old based on the description of the behavior, lol.

MP173
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Re: Help with shared child being spoiled

Post by MP173 » Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:23 am

This line worked great when my boys were younger and would ask for something:

"No, but thanks for asking!" It seemed to stop the conversation in its tracks.

Example:

"DAD! The new Michael Jordan shoes are coming out and only cost $100 (20 years ago). Can I have a pair?!!?"

Reply - "No, but thanks for asking."

End of conversation.

Ed

Glockenspiel
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Re: Help with shared child being spoiled

Post by Glockenspiel » Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:47 am

barnaclebob wrote:
Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:16 am
ddurrett896 wrote:
Thu Apr 12, 2018 8:39 am
Child is 13 and we have been married since age 2.
Show him/her this thread and how everyone assumed it was a 5 year old based on the description of the behavior, lol.
+1 I also assumed the kid was somewhere between 4 and 6.

forgeblast
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Re: Help with shared child being spoiled

Post by forgeblast » Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:55 am

Need vs want. Is this something you need, or something you want. Something you want is what you spend your money on. Save up or do chores. If its something you need food, clothing, medical etc I will pay for it. :D

NotWhoYouThink
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Re: Help with shared child being spoiled

Post by NotWhoYouThink » Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:57 am

In my experience, they stop asking if you say NO clearly and directly, and don't hint that nagging might change your mind, and are consistent. 13 is plenty old to figure out that Dad's family is not like Mom's family.

You can be assertive and authoritative (you know, parental) by setting expectations on spending and sticking to them. Does he have an allowance? Whatever jobs you decide he needs to do around the house, if he has money of his own that he is free to spend or save at his own discretion he'll be able to learn how to make his own decisions and quit asking you for stuff. At that age my kids had a budget and were choosing their own clothes. One was always broke with a cool wardrobe, the other was always flush with cash wearing worn-out jeans. Both were satisfied with their choices.

You're the adult in the relationship. Figure out what rules you want, communicate those rules, and be consistent.

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Re: Help with shared child being spoiled

Post by Andyrunner » Thu Apr 12, 2018 10:08 am

I don't know what type of relationship you have with the ex, but I think this is where you need to sit down with him/her and discuss this issue. You are both the parents and need to create join action plans as far as raising the child. If you're having this 'want' issue than the ex probably is too. It's not your place to discuss with the ex's parents, but it is his/hers issue that needs to be brought up. I would hope the grandparents would respect that.

Obviously don't do it in a demeaning manor, but say we need to teach our kid they can't have everything they want and purchases are rewards not givens. At the age of 13, the child needs to learn the value of money. Earning money through chores I don't think is the right idea. They need to learn that chores are needed to maintain a household. If they go above and beyond something, maybe reward them.

At some point the kid is going to ask for a 'car' and if the grandparents want to...leave that to them but then make the kid pay the insurance.

Katietsu
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Re: Help with shared child being spoiled

Post by Katietsu » Thu Apr 12, 2018 10:19 am

I would separate these issues.

1) Do you have a problem with the items the grandparents are gifting? For instance, I am careful not to buy tablets or video consoles for other people's kids without the parents' consent. Similarly, if the grandparents promise your son a car without your consent or the father's consent, that is an issue. On the other hand, if the type and number of gifts themselves are not a problem and your concern is only for your son's behavior, then I do not think the grandparents are the problem.

2) Is your issue instead that your son is constantly asking for things when with you and does not seem to have a good appreciation for the value of money? Then, let the grandparents keep doing what they are doing. The problem is within your household. There are many books and programs that focus on teaching kids how to view and handle finances. Take a look at them and decide which one aligns most closely with your philosophy. Make a plan. Implement it in your household. Better yet if you can get the other parent to go along with a united plan. Leave the grandparents out of it unless they are acting in the role of the second parent.

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Doom&Gloom
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Re: Help with shared child being spoiled

Post by Doom&Gloom » Thu Apr 12, 2018 11:26 am

Glockenspiel wrote:
Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:47 am
barnaclebob wrote:
Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:16 am
ddurrett896 wrote:
Thu Apr 12, 2018 8:39 am
Child is 13 and we have been married since age 2.
Show him/her this thread and how everyone assumed it was a 5 year old based on the description of the behavior, lol.
+1 I also assumed the kid was somewhere between 4 and 6.
Yep. A shocker.

OP's ship has probably already sailed. This now seems clearly to be a relationship issue.

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Pajamas
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Re: Help with shared child being spoiled

Post by Pajamas » Thu Apr 12, 2018 1:12 pm

Doom&Gloom wrote:
Thu Apr 12, 2018 11:26 am
Glockenspiel wrote:
Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:47 am
barnaclebob wrote:
Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:16 am
ddurrett896 wrote:
Thu Apr 12, 2018 8:39 am
Child is 13 and we have been married since age 2.
Show him/her this thread and how everyone assumed it was a 5 year old based on the description of the behavior, lol.
+1 I also assumed the kid was somewhere between 4 and 6.
Yep. A shocker.
He did say something about raking leaves in the initial post. The grandparents' influence on his son's behavior may be overestimated and the parents' and stepparents' influence underestimated. Really, it sounds like the behavior falls within the normal range for a 13 year old, from what I observe.
Last edited by Pajamas on Thu Apr 12, 2018 2:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

deltaneutral83
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Re: Help with shared child being spoiled

Post by deltaneutral83 » Thu Apr 12, 2018 2:09 pm

No one knows OP's customized relationship with ex and ex-inlaws. That could be easy, or it could be difficult, or somewhere in the middle. I'd consider dropping your kid off at the local soup kitchen or food bank and let them put in 3 hours on a Saturday morning. You could join him to make it not seem as a punishment. it might not do any good, but I highly doubt it will do any bad. If ex in laws are open to communication, tell them any monies beyond an agreed upon amount would be graciously appreciated toward college.

SrGrumpy
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Re: Help with shared child being spoiled

Post by SrGrumpy » Thu Apr 12, 2018 2:44 pm

Glockenspiel wrote:
Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:47 am
barnaclebob wrote:
Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:16 am
ddurrett896 wrote:
Thu Apr 12, 2018 8:39 am
Child is 13 and we have been married since age 2.
Show him/her this thread and how everyone assumed it was a 5 year old based on the description of the behavior, lol.
+1 I also assumed the kid was somewhere between 4 and 6.
The usual story here. A cryptic, bare-bones post. Scolds offer heavy-handed advice. OP goes MIA, then tersely offers some germane info. I'd say the grandparents are the least of the problem.

Shallowpockets
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Re: Help with shared child being spoiled

Post by Shallowpockets » Thu Apr 12, 2018 3:10 pm

I am kind of surprised also that the age of this child is 13.
Starting the age of "me and my needs". Learning manipulation. Keep up with the other teens.
There will be good times ahead, financed with OPM (other people's money).
There is no Bogleheaded future with this behavior.

In 13 more years he will be posting on here about his student debt, car debt, and other finance problems he never learned. Like LBYM.

NotWhoYouThink
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Re: Help with shared child being spoiled

Post by NotWhoYouThink » Thu Apr 12, 2018 3:31 pm

Wow, tough crowd here.

I'm glad OP recognizes there is a problem and wants to improve his son's behavior and is asking for advice. No matter how smart you are you can't improve if you can't accept coaching. That goes for all of us, and is a hard thing for me to do so I admire it when I see others asking for coaching.

So I'll repeat my advice to give the kid enough money to make his own spending decisions, and then stay out of it. We don't know what the child support or other arrangements are or could be, and it seems unlikely that OP is going to meaningfully affect the behavior of his ex's parents. But if the kid has his own budget to manage he can practice choosing among all the various options for spending or saving. Very boglehead.

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arcticpineapplecorp.
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Re: Help with shared child being spoiled

Post by arcticpineapplecorp. » Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:07 pm

ddurrett896 wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 5:22 pm
My thinking was to maybe tie it to a job. For example, he asks for a $5 toy and the response is "ok but it's going to cost you 2 bags of raked leaves when we get home."
Sorry, I thought he was in the 4-6 range too. That's why I posted the Stanford Marshmallow Experiment (it was kids around that range).

This certainly explains why a 13 year old would be raking 2 bags of leaves (and not a 4-6 year old)

My next question is what 13 year old asks for a $5 toy?

Most 13 year olds I know want an iphone or some type of technology that costs more than $5.
"Invest we must." -- Jack Bogle | “The purpose of investing is not to simply optimise returns and make yourself rich. The purpose is not to die poor.” -- William Bernstein

ddurrett896
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Re: Help with shared child being spoiled

Post by ddurrett896 » Fri Apr 13, 2018 7:29 am

arcticpineapplecorp. wrote:
Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:07 pm
My next question is what 13 year old asks for a $5 toy?
Maybe I shouldn't have been specific with the dollar amount. Pretty much includes any low cost item, likely on an endcap or display in a store that jumps out at him. Could be a cheap squirt gun at the register or a bin of DVDs in the middle or the isle or even a baseball hat in the isle. Nothing crazy like a Macbook or iPhone.

Appreciate the help! A lot of his behavior has been corrected with age and consistent follow up (turning off lights, pickup up room without asking, etc) and the money/spending is the last thing.

Maybe in overthinking it and it's just a kid being a kid. Being a Boglehead, I'm confident we will be set in the future with $ as will he when we pass. I'd like him to continue the Boglehead tradition and snowball our/his new money, not blow it on everything he walks by.

He currently receives no money for chores - what has everyone had success with in terms of their child receiving an allowance and how it's spent/saved? I'm not a fan of just giving money and want to incorporate some type of saving structure. When I was a kid, the elementary school had a "bank" where we could deposit money that was then transferred to a local bank. I used to get so excited to save...and today it continues. Thanks for all the help, tough or not! I couldn't ask for a better kid, just want to solve this.

Pigeon
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Re: Help with shared child being spoiled

Post by Pigeon » Fri Apr 13, 2018 9:37 am

I'd let it go. Kids can understand that different rules apply in different situations. If they are great grandparents otherwise, this is pretty minor.

cantos
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Re: Help with shared child being spoiled

Post by cantos » Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:14 am

ddurrett896 wrote:
Thu Apr 12, 2018 8:39 am
...we have been married since age 2.
That's amazing. I'm not so sure I could have committed so soon myself!

learning_head
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Re: Help with shared child being spoiled

Post by learning_head » Fri Apr 13, 2018 1:27 pm

Leemiller wrote:
Thu Apr 12, 2018 7:04 am
Generally, I tell my kid that my job is to teach her how to be the kind of person that other people want to be around and complaining and whining isn’t it. I reinforce this by telling her good comments I get about her from others.
If done too much, do you think this may cause the kid to care too much about what others think? E.g. later on trying to keep up with the "coolness" of peers?

LiterallyIronic
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Re: Help with shared child being spoiled

Post by LiterallyIronic » Fri Apr 13, 2018 1:44 pm

annielouise wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 5:45 pm
My answer will be different than others.

I do not believe in paying a child for chores. Families, in my opinion, do not charge each other to help. Families help out because they are a team. You don't make your child pay for the dinner you make, or the clothes you wash, and they should not expect to be paid for making a bed, doing yard work, etc. They can earn money working for other people, so that is an option, especially if you teach them how to do lots of jobs first.
This is my view as well. Working around the house/yard is part of being a family. Our kid is only one, so this isn't a thing I have to worry about yet, but everyone is expected to do their share of chores. There's no opting out with, "Nah, I don't need the money, so I won't do any chores."

NotWhoYouThink
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Re: Help with shared child being spoiled

Post by NotWhoYouThink » Fri Apr 13, 2018 1:54 pm

He currently receives no money for chores - what has everyone had success with in terms of their child receiving an allowance and how it's spent/saved? I'm not a fan of just giving money and want to incorporate some type of saving structure.
Here is a somewhat recent thread

viewtopic.php?t=213721

To summarize, this forum has members that do or don't recommend allowance, that do or don't recommend paying for chores, that do or don't recommend requiring kids to save or donate some portion of their allowance, that do and don't match earned income with parental contributions which may or may not be to Roth IRAs, that do and don't require kids to obtain paid work in order to use the family car. It's all over the map, and I expect most of us overestimate the extent to which our parenting choices influenced our kids' development.

Hillview
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Re: Help with shared child being spoiled

Post by Hillview » Fri Apr 13, 2018 3:23 pm

We go by age, starting at 7 years old. My 12 year old gets $12 a week, the 10 year old gets $10. His chores are separate (he is expected to do as he is asked and pitch in and not get paid). They buy what they want to buy or they invest. The 12 year old has spend $30 in the last 2 years. The 10 year old has spent more than half of his allowances (on baseball cards and soccer jerseys). The allowances take the "I wants" totally off the table. We buy them school clothes and sports equipment (not fancy stuff) if they want the nicer/more $ version they pay for that additional cost (eg want the fancy cleats you pay the difference between the I'd cleats buy you and what you want). This has worked out very well for us and ended all discussions of what they ask for. We get them gifts at holidays and I treat on ice cream on Fridays. On vacations we sometimes give them a vacation allowance. YMMV. My 12 year old is very interested in finance and we look at our YNAB budget together. My 10 year old not so much (yet).

This is a very good book (he also writes for the NYT).
https://www.amazon.com/Opposite-Spoiled ... 0062247026

ddurrett896
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Re: Help with shared child being spoiled

Post by ddurrett896 » Fri Apr 13, 2018 3:54 pm

Hillview wrote:
Fri Apr 13, 2018 3:23 pm
We go by age, starting at 7 years old. My 12 year old gets $12 a week, the 10 year old gets $10. His chores are separate (he is expected to do as he is asked and pitch in and not get paid). They buy what they want to buy or they invest.
Mind giving some example of chores?

Hillview
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Re: Help with shared child being spoiled

Post by Hillview » Fri Apr 13, 2018 5:08 pm

ddurrett896 wrote:
Fri Apr 13, 2018 3:54 pm
Mind giving some example of chores?
Sure expected chores on a daily or so basis are
- setting table
- clearing table
- helping prep dinner
- doing own laundry (I will put washing into dryer if needed) includes putting it all away
- feeding/giving water dogs
- taking dogs out
- doing what is asked (covers special projects of organizing a space, deep cleaning, vacuuming, shoveling snow, raking etc)
- taking trash/recycling out
I don't consider putting your stuff away/hanging stuff up a chore but it is expected. ETA: cleaning their own rooms is also expected and not something I consider a chore.

Years ago we had chore charts for the kids. We got rid of those once they did as they were asked without effort. Before that the chore charts were super helpful to get kids to visualize what was required/expected. They had a morning chart and an after school chart.

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