Regrets of the frugal and dying?
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Regrets of the frugal and dying?
Hopefully not too morbid of a subject. But to those that may have had the experience of being around and talking to the dying, have they ever expressed a regret that involved frugality and not spending money on something? And if so, what? I would imagine it would mostly be experiential (like not paying to go on that amazing vacation), but I'm also wondering if there were regrets around not buying something material (like maybe that exotic car they could have afforded).
EDIT: Just to be clear, I am aware that usually such regrets involve relationships, not spending enough time with loved ones, etc. I have read a lot of literature on that. What I'm talking about here is to the extent someone you knew that was dying may have had regrets involving not spending money on something, what that may have been. If nobody ever expressed such a regret, well that's fine and informative too.
EDIT: Just to be clear, I am aware that usually such regrets involve relationships, not spending enough time with loved ones, etc. I have read a lot of literature on that. What I'm talking about here is to the extent someone you knew that was dying may have had regrets involving not spending money on something, what that may have been. If nobody ever expressed such a regret, well that's fine and informative too.
Last edited by Lynx310650 on Sun Apr 08, 2018 2:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Regrets of the frugal and dying?
Usually dying people talk more about relationships than financial matters as far as regrets.
Re: Regrets of the frugal and dying?
I had a relative, on his hospital deathbed, too weak to move, complaining about the costs and wanting to get moved out of the hospital.
When it comes to frugal spending, the regrets I've personally had weren't because there was something I really wanted and never bought, it was that I waited too long or bought too cheap a product and it wound up costing more.
When it comes to frugal spending, the regrets I've personally had weren't because there was something I really wanted and never bought, it was that I waited too long or bought too cheap a product and it wound up costing more.
"To achieve satisfactory investment results is easier than most people realize; to achieve superior results is harder than it looks." - Benjamin Graham
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Re: Regrets of the frugal and dying?
Wrong - people regret NOT spending enough time with other people. People regret not taking that trip to visit relatives and/or close friends who live on the other side of the pond or country. People usually aren't so self-centered as to focus on material goods like that amazing vacation or exotic cars. Why buy, when you can rent? You can still drive the car. Cars, planes, boats, even homes - it doesn't mean much when time is or has run out.Lynx310650 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 08, 2018 2:38 pm Hopefully not too morbid of a subject. But to those that may have had the experience of being around and talking to the dying, have they ever expressed a regret that involved frugality and not spending money on something? And if so, what? I would imagine it would mostly be experiential (like not paying to go on that amazing vacation), but I'm also wondering if there were regrets around not buying something material (like maybe that exotic car they could have afforded).
"One should invest based on their need, ability and willingness to take risk - Larry Swedroe" Asking Portfolio Questions
Re: Regrets of the frugal and dying?
Remember when you wanted what you currently have?
Re: Regrets of the frugal and dying?
I always wanted to see the band New Order. Few years ago came to my city but thought tickets were to exspensive. They may not come by my way again. Kinda wish I went.
Re: Regrets of the frugal and dying?
No related to dying but related to aging -
Travel
Many older people wish they had traveled more when they were young / middle age. When older, their knees, hearts, etc, can't take the hiking or climbing.
The saying "everything interesting is upstairs or uphill" is often true.
A relative of mine died before retirement age. I was glad he had worked as a teacher so he and his wife we able to travel extensively over his summer vacations instead of having to wait for retirement.
Housing
Many seniors over 75 I've spoken to wish they had not delayed moving into their final-home-before-nursing-home. Many had had moved into their dream homes while in their 60s but had not downsized significantly.
The final downsizing of belongings is a huge job. Especially if you are exhausted with care taking of a spouse.
And the lovely cottage in the woods becomes a burden when you need to visit medical facilities often and the drive is over an hour away one way.
Travel
Many older people wish they had traveled more when they were young / middle age. When older, their knees, hearts, etc, can't take the hiking or climbing.
The saying "everything interesting is upstairs or uphill" is often true.
A relative of mine died before retirement age. I was glad he had worked as a teacher so he and his wife we able to travel extensively over his summer vacations instead of having to wait for retirement.
Housing
Many seniors over 75 I've spoken to wish they had not delayed moving into their final-home-before-nursing-home. Many had had moved into their dream homes while in their 60s but had not downsized significantly.
The final downsizing of belongings is a huge job. Especially if you are exhausted with care taking of a spouse.
And the lovely cottage in the woods becomes a burden when you need to visit medical facilities often and the drive is over an hour away one way.
Re: Regrets of the frugal and dying?
Any generalizations that can be made on this front, in terms of what they regret? Dying people talk more about relationships that were very good or very bad? Wish they had tried harder to maintain a relationship or wish they had cut their losses sooner? Or does it just depend on each particular situation?
Re: Regrets of the frugal and dying?
My dad wished he had spent less time at work and more with family. He thought he Haden a poor father. My brother and I assured him he had been a great father.rjbraun wrote: ↑Sun Apr 08, 2018 5:21 pmAny generalizations that can be made on this front, in terms of what they regret? Dying people talk more about relationships that were very good or very bad? Wish they had tried harder to maintain a relationship or wish they had cut their losses sooner? Or does it just depend on each particular situation?
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Re: Regrets of the frugal and dying?
I am sorry about your father. Incidentally, this is also one of the top 5 regrets of the dying according to a palliative nurse:Dottie57 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 08, 2018 5:31 pmMy dad wished he had spent less time at work and more with family. He thought he Haden a poor father. My brother and I assured him he had been a great father.rjbraun wrote: ↑Sun Apr 08, 2018 5:21 pmAny generalizations that can be made on this front, in terms of what they regret? Dying people talk more about relationships that were very good or very bad? Wish they had tried harder to maintain a relationship or wish they had cut their losses sooner? Or does it just depend on each particular situation?
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/ ... 40593.html
Re: Regrets of the frugal and dying?
Many careers and businesses require a lot of time and focus to be at all successful. You can't really modulate the time and effort you put in all that much while still being successful. You may be able to retire early, but then you're in the other extreme of not working rather than working a lot, and it may be too late already to experience the things you missed. There isn't much middle ground, unfortunately. Hence, not sure what to make of the "worked too much" regrets because I don't know how such folks would have been successful in their careers or businesses without "working too much".
Re: Regrets of the frugal and dying?
Everyone living is in the process of dying.
Re: Regrets of the frugal and dying?
I was lucky to have my father. I have wonderful memories of him. He worked hard, but he was very good when around. I just hope he realized how lived he was.Lynx310650 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 08, 2018 5:37 pmI am sorry about your father. Incidentally, this is also one of the top 5 regrets of the dying according to a palliative nurse:Dottie57 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 08, 2018 5:31 pmMy dad wished he had spent less time at work and more with family. He thought he Haden a poor father. My brother and I assured him he had been a great father.rjbraun wrote: ↑Sun Apr 08, 2018 5:21 pmAny generalizations that can be made on this front, in terms of what they regret? Dying people talk more about relationships that were very good or very bad? Wish they had tried harder to maintain a relationship or wish they had cut their losses sooner? Or does it just depend on each particular situation?
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/ ... 40593.html
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Re: Regrets of the frugal and dying?
Dad wished he had taken mom on a cruise. I wish someone had told me mom wanted to go on a cruise, because I would have actually taken her. Dad was never going to take her. It wasn’t about money. He was afraid of ships.
Re: Regrets of the frugal and dying?
Don´t know about frugal, but my grandfather lived rather prodigal. He left a house behind for my grandmother, but everything he earned between 30- retirement, he spent on family vacations, making sure all family members lived as good as possible, sailing, cars, good food and wine.
He died 3 years after retiring. He never expressed regret about not having saved enough, even though he wasn´t well-off in the end.
He died 3 years after retiring. He never expressed regret about not having saved enough, even though he wasn´t well-off in the end.
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Re: Regrets of the frugal and dying?
I'm curious about the OP's goal. I think some wisdom can be gleaned from the regrets of the dying. It's less obvious to me that optimizing for deathbed regret versus whole-life enjoyment is the best thing to do.
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Re: Regrets of the frugal and dying?
I have spent quite a few years doing volunteer work in care and nursing homes, as well as with many relatives and family now long gone.
These seem to be the most common shared thoughts and feelings.
Regrets
1 Time - better spent toward things of the heart vs time wasted on what is impermanent.
2 Money - toward the greater good.
3 Efforts - connections made, never made, broken - treasured or thrown away.
Satisfactions
1 Forgiveness
2 Giving of self, time, and money (without reward and/or recognition)
3 Serving a greater good, a higher purpose.
aloha
j
These seem to be the most common shared thoughts and feelings.
Regrets
1 Time - better spent toward things of the heart vs time wasted on what is impermanent.
2 Money - toward the greater good.
3 Efforts - connections made, never made, broken - treasured or thrown away.
Satisfactions
1 Forgiveness
2 Giving of self, time, and money (without reward and/or recognition)
3 Serving a greater good, a higher purpose.
aloha
j
Re: Regrets of the frugal and dying?
I have had conversations with frugal elderly people (not those nearing death) who regretted not spending money on things earlier in life. The regrets sometimes were missed special occasions, eg that World Series ticket or a special overseas trip. Sometimes, it was more about physical creature comforts, eg driving the dangerous, physically unpleasant, emotionally harrowing beater car with the hole in the floor or sleeping on the uncomfortable 25 yr old mattress that caused pain.
I do not recall hearing regrets over exotic cars or upgraded cruise suites.
I do not recall hearing regrets over exotic cars or upgraded cruise suites.
Re: Regrets of the frugal and dying?
I've thought about this subject a lot lately, and wish we could have some ghost Bogleheads come back and tell us, "Well, was the frugal lifestyle really worth it?" I can't help but think that some people might have regretted it. We can all say, well people on their death beds say they wish they spent more time with their families, etc. -- and I think that is true. But have we ever heard people on their death beds also say "Gee, I wish I had never bought that exotic car" or some other purchase that would be roundly criticized on these boards? I imagine not. You really do only live once.
Re: Regrets of the frugal and dying?
My parents were pretty frugal for their income. My mom then passed away rather unexpectedly a few years ago in her early 70’s. My dad expressed regrets that they didn’t spend money more freely when my mom was alive. I have been encouraging my dad to increase his spending. He will be taking a Mediterranean cruise with his college friends next week.
For myself, I sometimes think that I should loose the purse string a little more. My wife enjoys staying at nice hotels/resorts when we travel. Maybe we should splurge a little and stay at the Ritz or Four Seasons on our next vacation.
For myself, I sometimes think that I should loose the purse string a little more. My wife enjoys staying at nice hotels/resorts when we travel. Maybe we should splurge a little and stay at the Ritz or Four Seasons on our next vacation.
Re: Regrets of the frugal and dying?
Here's an article on the top 5 regrets of the dying: http://www.aarp.org/relationships/grief ... ing.2.html
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Michael |
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Invest your time actively and your money passively.
Re: Regrets of the frugal and dying?
I heard no regrets from either dying patients or dying relatives about working too long or saving too much. One patient did not want to go into a nursing home because she wanted her children to inherit money. I kept her out of a nursing home for as long as I was in medical practice.
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Re: Regrets of the frugal and dying?
Gee, I should have worked longer.
This is the classic sarcastic line for a tombstone. Lots of regrets may be tied to not retiring sooner. Especially in this day and age. Relationships, time is needed for that. Travel, time is needed for that. Family, time is needed for that. Bucket list, time is needed for that.
Those that work until they die are here. Those that work when they do not have to are here.
If you have the money then you should make the time. Or, take the time.
Frugality regrets are probably tied to the experience of whatever regret it was. You don't need a lot of money for the things people seem to regret as posted here.
Sometimes people cannot find their possible regrets. You may have to think deep on that, and be very honest with yourself. Maybe that is what the dying have - a final honesty with themselves.
You look in that dying mirror and you see the person you have become, because you are out of time and that is as far as you will ever go as a person. Face to face with the final self.
This is the classic sarcastic line for a tombstone. Lots of regrets may be tied to not retiring sooner. Especially in this day and age. Relationships, time is needed for that. Travel, time is needed for that. Family, time is needed for that. Bucket list, time is needed for that.
Those that work until they die are here. Those that work when they do not have to are here.
If you have the money then you should make the time. Or, take the time.
Frugality regrets are probably tied to the experience of whatever regret it was. You don't need a lot of money for the things people seem to regret as posted here.
Sometimes people cannot find their possible regrets. You may have to think deep on that, and be very honest with yourself. Maybe that is what the dying have - a final honesty with themselves.
You look in that dying mirror and you see the person you have become, because you are out of time and that is as far as you will ever go as a person. Face to face with the final self.
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Re: Regrets of the frugal and dying?
I visit my WWII vet ( to give you an idea of his age) spouse in his care home every day. He has never expressed regret over anything. Often we talk about a wonderful or amazing experience we have shared, usually during our so-far 30 year retirement.
Re: Regrets of the frugal and dying?
Regrets when dying don't matter much in my opinion. Life is almost over at that point, and the dead don't feel anything. If you didn't regret something until dying, and only regret it then, I don't think it matters that much because you don't have to live with it for long.
The tougher problem is with having regrets when there is still significant time to live with the regrets, but it's too late to change the things which are regretted.
The tougher problem is with having regrets when there is still significant time to live with the regrets, but it's too late to change the things which are regretted.
Re: Regrets of the frugal and dying?
This is an important point. I have seen a lot of people die and sure, some of them knew it was coming and it took a while and they had plenty of time to talk and think and experience emotions, but when it actually comes right down to it, most people are either asleep or unconscious or confused or so medicated that they aren't expressing much of anything and their thoughts are likely incoherent when it comes time for them to die. It's best to face these issues right now and not worry so much about what will happen on your deathbed beyond making sure you have advance directives on file and have discussed them with your health care proxy.visualguy wrote: ↑Mon Apr 09, 2018 10:39 am Regrets when dying don't matter much in my opinion. Life is almost over at that point, and the dead don't feel anything. If you didn't regret something until dying, and only regret it then, I don't think it matters that much because you don't have to live with it for long.
The tougher problem is with having regrets when there is still significant time to live with the regrets, but it's too late to change the things which are regretted.
Re: Regrets of the frugal and dying?
Husband and wife nurses here. In our early years of nursing, we took care of many older folks status post elective joint replacements. Now, these patients weren't "dying", rather they were fairly healthy, but many were 60+ years old with money; many were 75+ years of age. The ones who were outspoken always expressed the regret in not traveling more in their early years.
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Re: Regrets of the frugal and dying?
My mom is dying from brain cancer. Her regrets are that she isn't going to be around to see milestones for my kids. She has never expressed any concern for how much money is left sitting in her bank account.
Re: Regrets of the frugal and dying?
I'm in my 40's, but if I were on my deathbed, I would regret having not traveled more. Besides that, I'm frugal and want for nothing. My family isn't into stuff. As my boys get older, that travel piece will be fulfilled. By far, the most important part of my life is my family. No regrets there.
Re: Regrets of the frugal and dying?
visualguy- thanks for posting that. Very insightful and thought-provoking.
I'm around enough elderly people to make me aware that the most important thing to do is maintain health and mobility. If you lose mobility, your world gets really small. Also, keep a positive outlook--don't get cranky and weird because no one will want to be around you. Lastly, have enough financial resources that you're not worried about paying bills. These are my take-aways from spending time with oldsters.
Re: Regrets of the frugal and dying?
This is an example of the psychological phenomenon of "peak and end," first demonstrated by Daniel Kahneman in colonoscopy experiments. People ignore duration of experiences and focus on their peak points and endings. With colonoscopy, people rated the experience much higher when the procedure was artificially extended with a painless process. Rationally, the extended procedures should have been rated worse, because the patients had all the painful moments plus additional time on the table. But emotionally, the mild ending made the entire experience judged as less painful.Pajamas wrote: ↑Mon Apr 09, 2018 10:54 amThis is an important point. I have seen a lot of people die and sure, some of them knew it was coming and it took a while and they had plenty of time to talk and think and experience emotions, but when it actually comes right down to it, most people are either asleep or unconscious or confused or so medicated that they aren't expressing much of anything and their thoughts are likely incoherent when it comes time for them to die. It's best to face these issues right now and not worry so much about what will happen on your deathbed beyond making sure you have advance directives on file and have discussed them with your health care proxy.visualguy wrote: ↑Mon Apr 09, 2018 10:39 am Regrets when dying don't matter much in my opinion. Life is almost over at that point, and the dead don't feel anything. If you didn't regret something until dying, and only regret it then, I don't think it matters that much because you don't have to live with it for long.
The tougher problem is with having regrets when there is still significant time to live with the regrets, but it's too late to change the things which are regretted.
Thus, I agree that it's not worthwhile changing one's entire life for the sake of a momentary regret or satisfaction at its very end.
Victoria
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Re: Regrets of the frugal and dying?
My experience with those who are dying is they share and cherish memories. Now go make some memories.
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Re: Regrets of the frugal and dying?
Reminds me of a favorite New Yorker cartoon....
https://www.art.com/products/p150632451 ... artoon.htm
https://www.art.com/products/p150632451 ... artoon.htm
Re: Regrets of the frugal and dying?
(SARCASM) I think there's a Ben Franklin quote that relates, I think it goes like
https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/benj ... lin_143171
(/SARCASM)"If you would not be forgotten as soon as you are dead," ...either buy something worth buying or do things that cost money...
https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/benj ... lin_143171
"To achieve satisfactory investment results is easier than most people realize; to achieve superior results is harder than it looks." - Benjamin Graham
Re: Regrets of the frugal and dying?
They might not say it on their deathbed (because at that point it doesn't matter), but in the 2-10 years before their deathbed, the broke ones might definitely say "I wish I had never bought that exotic car."
Re: Regrets of the frugal and dying?
That is actionable. Next time a band comes by that you want to see, go see it (as long as you can pay for the tickets without going into debt
Retired 2019. So far, so good. I want to wake up every morning. But I want to die in my sleep. Just another conundrum. I think the solution might be afternoon naps ;)
Re: Regrets of the frugal and dying?
No, I’ve never heard of anyone regretting on their death bed that they didn’t buy something.
If that is one’s regret then either that person is a really great person (as they made sure to take care of the typical regrets) or a terrible person.
Most dying people are concerned with dying and what will happen to their loved ones.
JT
If that is one’s regret then either that person is a really great person (as they made sure to take care of the typical regrets) or a terrible person.
Most dying people are concerned with dying and what will happen to their loved ones.
JT
Re: Regrets of the frugal and dying?
I cannot speak for others, but we may have some almost ghost Bogleheads. I had a near death experience with a medical issue that was nearly fatal. I never had any regret about finances or whether I had spent enough of my money. Had I died I would have saved a lot more than I needed, but that was not a concern. I was full of regret for problems with my marriage. I was concerned that my kids would inherit more money than might be good for them at too early an age. I never regretted not taking any trips, spending too much on anything or not spending enough on anything. I have a newfound respect for quality of life and decline work that requires too much interaction with hostile people. I am more interested in retiring to pursue my own interests and volunteering than I was before, but have no regrets about being frugal. Since I survived, I am even more pleased that I was frugal and now enjoy enough security to choose my work battles, to plan for a future retirement, and fully realize money is just a tool and not a scoreboard. I have no desire to use all that I have, nor to collect more than I need. I do like safety, so I'll probably continue to accumulate more than I will likely use. To be secure will almost certainly mean that I will die with a pile. That's okay. Heirs and charities can use it after I no longer need it. No regrets.
Also, I'm fully acclimated to my frugal lifestyle. I'm comfortable with the kinds of expenses I incur. I like my moderately priced bottle of wine and cannot taste any difference or enjoy any more an extravagantly expensive one. I enjoy familiar foods and like a well prepared meal of foods I like more than an expensive taste creation of a highly rated chef pushing the the bounds of expectations. I enjoy trying new foods, such as new ethnic cooking, but never feel like I'm missing out by not eating more expensive fare. I feel no need to drive a high-end luxury car, although I enjoy a nice but not too expensive vehicle. If anything I'm more secure in thinking that the frugal (moderately frugal, I'm not feeling like I'm denying myself much) lifestyle is comfortable for me. I'm happy with how it's turning out. I would have been happy with that choice if it had ended too soon. I expect I will be happy with the frugal choices I've made as I proceed though the rest of my life, realizing more than I used to how uncertain the future is.
Re: Regrets of the frugal and dying?
Almost all my family has passed, and some of my husband's family, and I've been close to the edge myself. My observation is that most people close to death are too ill to regret anything, they are often in and out of consciousness, in a fever, or drugged. Some people die quickly, say of a heart attack, and there's little time to think. So there's often no time for regrets, and no energy if there is time.
The living might regret various things "for" those about to die, so to speak-- e.g., the son who regrets the parents' smoking, or the sister who regrets her siblings did not get to the deathbed in time, etc. In my experience, most regrets are about bad behaviors, especially treating people badly or poor health habits. I've never known anyone who regretted buying stuff, as it's completely pointless to worry about that at the end.
The living might regret various things "for" those about to die, so to speak-- e.g., the son who regrets the parents' smoking, or the sister who regrets her siblings did not get to the deathbed in time, etc. In my experience, most regrets are about bad behaviors, especially treating people badly or poor health habits. I've never known anyone who regretted buying stuff, as it's completely pointless to worry about that at the end.
"My bond allocation is the amount of money that I cannot afford to lose." -- Taylor Larimore
Re: Regrets of the frugal and dying?
Mr. Landry was my patient. He had terminal liver cancer and a bird feeder outside his window. His nurse filled the feeder with seed mix each day after she gave him his bath, and on good days, he stayed awake for a while as his “regulars” visited the feeder for lunch. His favorite was a bright red male cardinal that ate the sunflower seeds from the mix, shelling each seed with amazing skill using his tongue and his beak. There was no end to the delight this brought to Mr. Landry. He would laugh out loud as he watched the birds each day. He loved this time he spent lying on his clean sheets in the late morning sun until his eyes slowly closed and his body relaxed and he drifted off to sleep.
As I sat with Mr. Landry in his bright, cheery bedroom, I began to notice how he watched death approaching. He certainly knew he was dying soon, and he was quite matter-of-fact about it. He accepted his visitors’ offers to pray for him with gratitude and nodded when the priest asked him if he would like another visit later in the week. But Mr. Landry didn’t seem to focus much on his predicament. For one at the brink of crossing over, he was not trying very hard to catch up from a lifetime of missing church on Sundays. This puzzled me, so one day when he was in a talkative mood, I explored his thoughts about the afterlife.
“Those birds are so beautiful, Mr. Landry.”
“Yes, they are my daily experience of the sacred.”
“What do you think it will be like after you pass on, Mr. Landry?”
“I don’t know,” he said. “It is a wonderful mystery. I believe God’s silence is a test, like unexplained evil in the world.”
“Help me understand what you mean.”
“Well, son, have you ever heard of Pascal’s Wager?”
“Yes. Pascal was an early philosopher who suggested it was better to bet there was a God than to bet against Him.”
“Right, and Pascal’s suggestion makes sense if you’re a betting man. But I’ve spent my life as a scientist and I have an intellectual concern for seeking out, testing and confirming truth. I figure that given the evil in the world and in the Bible, either there is no God, or God is testing our morality. If we have free will and can make our own choices in life, then I believe a righteous God would want us to choose morality over faith. Morality is universal, but believers of all faiths think that only their religion is true. Without proof of God on earth, I have lived my life morally. If there is a just God, he will reward me for that.”
“So God is testing our moral strength by staying silent and allowing evil?”
“Right, he wants to see if we have the courage to choose morality over faith and be good without fear or hope of divine reward.”
“You’re a brave man, Mr. Landry. Would you like a sip of water?”
“What I’d like is a cold beer, but it’s against my religion.”
As I sat with Mr. Landry in his bright, cheery bedroom, I began to notice how he watched death approaching. He certainly knew he was dying soon, and he was quite matter-of-fact about it. He accepted his visitors’ offers to pray for him with gratitude and nodded when the priest asked him if he would like another visit later in the week. But Mr. Landry didn’t seem to focus much on his predicament. For one at the brink of crossing over, he was not trying very hard to catch up from a lifetime of missing church on Sundays. This puzzled me, so one day when he was in a talkative mood, I explored his thoughts about the afterlife.
“Those birds are so beautiful, Mr. Landry.”
“Yes, they are my daily experience of the sacred.”
“What do you think it will be like after you pass on, Mr. Landry?”
“I don’t know,” he said. “It is a wonderful mystery. I believe God’s silence is a test, like unexplained evil in the world.”
“Help me understand what you mean.”
“Well, son, have you ever heard of Pascal’s Wager?”
“Yes. Pascal was an early philosopher who suggested it was better to bet there was a God than to bet against Him.”
“Right, and Pascal’s suggestion makes sense if you’re a betting man. But I’ve spent my life as a scientist and I have an intellectual concern for seeking out, testing and confirming truth. I figure that given the evil in the world and in the Bible, either there is no God, or God is testing our morality. If we have free will and can make our own choices in life, then I believe a righteous God would want us to choose morality over faith. Morality is universal, but believers of all faiths think that only their religion is true. Without proof of God on earth, I have lived my life morally. If there is a just God, he will reward me for that.”
“So God is testing our moral strength by staying silent and allowing evil?”
“Right, he wants to see if we have the courage to choose morality over faith and be good without fear or hope of divine reward.”
“You’re a brave man, Mr. Landry. Would you like a sip of water?”
“What I’d like is a cold beer, but it’s against my religion.”
- DWesterb2iz2
- Posts: 179
- Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2015 5:27 am
Re: Regrets of the frugal and dying?
I was friends with an elderly couple back in the 1980s. He was a professor of finance at the University of Chicago. They lived in a simple apartment near the University. I brought them lentil soup. They were gracious company.
Anyway, I visited them often as he was dying of cancer. He died that year at the age of 89.
Shortly after he died, she was contacted by a committee for the Nobel Memorial Prize in Economic Sciences inquiring if he was alive, and so eligible for a prize (you have to be alive to win one). Alas, he had very recently passed.
But then, to her great surprise, she was told by a lawyer that her husband had invested their money very shrewdly and steadily over many decades and she was worth a lot of money (8 figures). She had no idea.
She was absolutely livid. "What do I need the money for now??? I'm 86 years old!! We could have had a house!! We could have had a garden!! WE COULD HAVE HELPED THE KIDS!!!!"
I thought she was going to dig him up and beat him. Make what you will of all that.
Anyway, I visited them often as he was dying of cancer. He died that year at the age of 89.
Shortly after he died, she was contacted by a committee for the Nobel Memorial Prize in Economic Sciences inquiring if he was alive, and so eligible for a prize (you have to be alive to win one). Alas, he had very recently passed.
But then, to her great surprise, she was told by a lawyer that her husband had invested their money very shrewdly and steadily over many decades and she was worth a lot of money (8 figures). She had no idea.
She was absolutely livid. "What do I need the money for now??? I'm 86 years old!! We could have had a house!! We could have had a garden!! WE COULD HAVE HELPED THE KIDS!!!!"
I thought she was going to dig him up and beat him. Make what you will of all that.
- lthenderson
- Posts: 8499
- Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2012 11:43 am
- Location: Iowa
Re: Regrets of the frugal and dying?
I've read several books on various aspects of being a "Boglehead" and not once do I recall any of them saying you had to be frugal in anyway except for the fees you pay to have your investments managed. I consider myself a Boglehead because I save more than I spend and invest my savings into index funds. I still spend more than I need to get by but it is much much less than my savings so I don't get too worked up about it. I certainly wouldn't consider myself frugal.
Re: Regrets of the frugal and dying?
I can make several things out of that:DWesterb2iz2 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 09, 2018 2:10 pm I was friends with an elderly couple back in the 1980s. He was a professor of finance at the University of Chicago. They lived in a simple apartment near the University. I brought them lentil soup. They were gracious company.
Anyway, I visited them often as he was dying of cancer. He died that year at the age of 89.
Shortly after he died, she was contacted by a committee for the Nobel Memorial Prize in Economic Sciences inquiring if he was alive, and so eligible for a prize (you have to be alive to win one). Alas, he had very recently passed.
But then, to her great surprise, she was told by a lawyer that her husband had invested their money very shrewdly and steadily over many decades and she was worth a lot of money (8 figures). She had no idea.
She was absolutely livid. "What do I need the money for now??? I'm 86 years old!! We could have had a house!! We could have had a garden!! WE COULD HAVE HELPED THE KIDS!!!!"
I thought she was going to dig him up and beat him. Make what you will of all that.
1. Professors of the Nobel caliber have preoccupations like the rest of us. This particular professor may have been obsessed with asset accumulation never considering his assets as the means for a better lifestyle. Somewhere in his papers there may be hidden a paper on how to beat the market!
or
2. The professor wanted to ensure that his widow would live well after his death, whenever it had happened and however many mistakes she had made.
or
3. The professor thought that his children needed to make it on their own and if his wife knew about the money, she would have distorted their natural professional paths.
or
4. As a productive scientist, the professor dreaded any disturbance of his routine that would have affected his productivity. He did not want to move to a house, because that would have meant the stress of moving, the stress of adaptation to a new place, and the stress of a new commute. And possibly stresses of having to give dinner parties and having his children staying over.
or
5. All of the above.
Victoria
Inventor of the Bogleheads Secret Handshake |
Winner of the 2015 Boglehead Contest. |
Every joke has a bit of a joke. ... The rest is the truth. (Marat F)
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- Posts: 89
- Joined: Thu Oct 19, 2017 2:44 pm
Re: Regrets of the frugal and dying?
I was a hospice volunteer for years. It was almost always about relationships.
Of course, you could tell who was frugal and who wasn't. The frugal people had money saved up, and that made things a lot easier for families.
Re: Regrets of the frugal and dying?
Funny, I suspected a different motivation, so I'll add it to your list. Perhaps you were thinking the same thing with your 1st point but I mis-interpretted it?VictoriaF wrote: ↑Mon Apr 09, 2018 5:12 pmI can make several things out of that:DWesterb2iz2 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 09, 2018 2:10 pm I was friends with an elderly couple back in the 1980s. He was a professor of finance at the University of Chicago. They lived in a simple apartment near the University. I brought them lentil soup. They were gracious company.
Anyway, I visited them often as he was dying of cancer. He died that year at the age of 89.
Shortly after he died, she was contacted by a committee for the Nobel Memorial Prize in Economic Sciences inquiring if he was alive, and so eligible for a prize (you have to be alive to win one). Alas, he had very recently passed.
But then, to her great surprise, she was told by a lawyer that her husband had invested their money very shrewdly and steadily over many decades and she was worth a lot of money (8 figures). She had no idea.
She was absolutely livid. "What do I need the money for now??? I'm 86 years old!! We could have had a house!! We could have had a garden!! WE COULD HAVE HELPED THE KIDS!!!!"
I thought she was going to dig him up and beat him. Make what you will of all that.
1. Professors of the Nobel caliber have preoccupations like the rest of us. This particular professor may have been obsessed with asset accumulation never considering his assets as the means for a better lifestyle. Somewhere in his papers there may be hidden a paper on how to beat the market!
or
2. The professor wanted to ensure that his widow would live well after his death, whenever it had happened and however many mistakes she had made.
or
3. The professor thought that his children needed to make it on their own and if his wife knew about the money, she would have distorted their natural professional paths.
or
4. As a productive scientist the professor dreaded any disturbance of his routine that would have affected his productivity. He did not want to move to a house, because that would have meant the stress of moving, the stress of adaptation to the new place, and the stress of a new commute. And possibly stresses of having to give dinner parties and having his children staying over.
or
5. All of the above.
Victoria
6. He was an academic with simple likes and pursuits and was quite happy with the way he was living and never saw any need or desire for lifestyle inflation. (Similar to how Warren Buffet hasn't sized up his house as his wealth has grown)... Judging by the fact that the widow had no idea of their financial situation, they likely had poor communication. He may have never even known the Wife wanted to spend more money!
Re: Regrets of the frugal and dying?
I actually am the same way, but quite a few of the "Should I buy this" threads are answered with a resounding NO (even if the person can clearly afford it) and then a fair amount of finger wagging and the like about why everyone should buy a Honda and a modest house with a 15 year mortgage, etc.lthenderson wrote: ↑Mon Apr 09, 2018 5:04 pmI've read several books on various aspects of being a "Boglehead" and not once do I recall any of them saying you had to be frugal in anyway except for the fees you pay to have your investments managed. I consider myself a Boglehead because I save more than I spend and invest my savings into index funds. I still spend more than I need to get by but it is much much less than my savings so I don't get too worked up about it. I certainly wouldn't consider myself frugal.
Re: Regrets of the frugal and dying?
thanks for sharing
Retired 2019. So far, so good. I want to wake up every morning. But I want to die in my sleep. Just another conundrum. I think the solution might be afternoon naps ;)