Honda reliability slipping?

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Alexa9
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Honda reliability slipping?

Post by Alexa9 » Sun Apr 08, 2018 10:14 am

I know many on here claim Honda/Toyota are the best when it comes to reliability but Honda seems to be slipping a bit lately although I still like their cars. I wonder if others have noticed this too.
I may consider a Toyota for my next vehicle. Honda seems to be pushing towards new transmissions and turbos (Accord, CR-V, Civic) while Toyota is staying fairly conservative with naturally aspirated engines and proven transmissions.

quantAndHold
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Re: Honda reliability slipping?

Post by quantAndHold » Sun Apr 08, 2018 11:17 am

According to consumer reports, which knows a lot more on car reliability than any particular Boglehead...Overall, Honda’s reliability is average. That said, in 2018, average reliability is actually pretty darn reliable. The April issue of CR has a chart telling what “average” is for their different reliability categories. For the category “Engine, Major”, you have to go all the way back to 2010, before the average number of cars with problems gets to 2%. Most categories are similar.

As far as overall brands, Toyota is much better than average (but avoid the Tacoma). Audi, BMW, Lexus, Kia, Subaru, Hyundai, and Mitsubishi are better than average. Porsche, Tesla, Honda, Chrysler, Mazda, Infiniti, Mercedes, Buick, Ford, and Nissan are average.

Note that the road test ratings for Hondas are quite a bit higher than for Toyota, and CR recommends a higher percentage of Hondas than Toyotas. But if you are basing your decision entirely on reliability, then Toyota is the best.

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Alexa9
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Re: Honda reliability slipping?

Post by Alexa9 » Sun Apr 08, 2018 11:39 am

quantAndHold wrote:
Sun Apr 08, 2018 11:17 am
According to consumer reports, which knows a lot more on car reliability than any particular Boglehead...Overall, Honda’s reliability is average. That said, in 2018, average reliability is actually pretty darn reliable. The April issue of CR has a chart telling what “average” is for their different reliability categories. For the category “Engine, Major”, you have to go all the way back to 2010, before the average number of cars with problems gets to 2%. Most categories are similar.

As far as overall brands, Toyota is much better than average (but avoid the Tacoma). Audi, BMW, Lexus, Kia, Subaru, Hyundai, and Mitsubishi are better than average. Porsche, Tesla, Honda, Chrysler, Mazda, Infiniti, Mercedes, Buick, Ford, and Nissan are average.

Note that the road test ratings for Hondas are quite a bit higher than for Toyota, and CR recommends a higher percentage of Hondas than Toyotas. But if you are basing your decision entirely on reliability, then Toyota is the best.
Good analysis. The Toyota seems more reliable if you're driving it until it dies but on the downside it feels more like an appliance.

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munemaker
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Re: Honda reliability slipping?

Post by munemaker » Sun Apr 08, 2018 11:45 am

Alexa9 wrote:
Sun Apr 08, 2018 11:39 am
quantAndHold wrote:
Sun Apr 08, 2018 11:17 am
According to consumer reports, which knows a lot more on car reliability than any particular Boglehead...Overall, Honda’s reliability is average. That said, in 2018, average reliability is actually pretty darn reliable. The April issue of CR has a chart telling what “average” is for their different reliability categories. For the category “Engine, Major”, you have to go all the way back to 2010, before the average number of cars with problems gets to 2%. Most categories are similar.

As far as overall brands, Toyota is much better than average (but avoid the Tacoma). Audi, BMW, Lexus, Kia, Subaru, Hyundai, and Mitsubishi are better than average. Porsche, Tesla, Honda, Chrysler, Mazda, Infiniti, Mercedes, Buick, Ford, and Nissan are average.

Note that the road test ratings for Hondas are quite a bit higher than for Toyota, and CR recommends a higher percentage of Hondas than Toyotas. But if you are basing your decision entirely on reliability, then Toyota is the best.
Good analysis. The Toyota seems more reliable if you're driving it until it dies but on the downside it feels more like an appliance.
+1 - This is the way I see it too.

sc9182
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Re: Honda reliability slipping?

Post by sc9182 » Sun Apr 08, 2018 4:02 pm

Following used car best value report by CR, littered with many good/reliable choices. Can't figure if Honda/Acura had more vehicles or Toyota/Lexus did in their recent report.

Most of resale value depends on high reliability and low-cost/easy maintenance. (prolly this list excluded: not-for-productive-driving-vehicles, such as: classics, Ultra/super-sports cars, or Trophy/Display/snow-plough/Safari-riding vehicles etc)

https://www.consumerreports.org/used-ca ... -by-price/

02nz
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Re: Honda reliability slipping?

Post by 02nz » Sun Apr 08, 2018 4:10 pm

I suspect part of Toyota's advantage in reliability is just how much of their cars' underlying bits carry over through the years. Honda tends to completely reengineer those bits (suspension, engine, etc.) with every full redesign or every other redesign, i.e. every 5-10 years, but at least until very recently many Toyota models have been using the same basic platforms (with changes) for two decades, in some cases. For example both the current Corolla and the Camry through 2017 are ancient, in terms of the underlying bits and pieces. Toyota is now moving many of their cars to a more modern global architecture, and we'll see if/how that impacts reliability. I do agree Hondas generally drive better than their Toyota competitors.

Bacchus01
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Re: Honda reliability slipping?

Post by Bacchus01 » Sun Apr 08, 2018 5:44 pm

quantAndHold wrote:
Sun Apr 08, 2018 11:17 am
According to consumer reports, which knows a lot more on car reliability than any particular Boglehead...Overall, Honda’s reliability is average. That said, in 2018, average reliability is actually pretty darn reliable. The April issue of CR has a chart telling what “average” is for their different reliability categories. For the category “Engine, Major”, you have to go all the way back to 2010, before the average number of cars with problems gets to 2%. Most categories are similar.

As far as overall brands, Toyota is much better than average (but avoid the Tacoma). Audi, BMW, Lexus, Kia, Subaru, Hyundai, and Mitsubishi are better than average. Porsche, Tesla, Honda, Chrysler, Mazda, Infiniti, Mercedes, Buick, Ford, and Nissan are average.

Note that the road test ratings for Hondas are quite a bit higher than for Toyota, and CR recommends a higher percentage of Hondas than Toyotas. But if you are basing your decision entirely on reliability, then Toyota is the best.

2% of all new cars with major engine issues is 1.4M cars. That is just a little better than a 2 sigma quality level in just one category. That’s terrible.

quantAndHold
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Re: Honda reliability slipping?

Post by quantAndHold » Sun Apr 08, 2018 5:54 pm

Bacchus01 wrote:
Sun Apr 08, 2018 5:44 pm
quantAndHold wrote:
Sun Apr 08, 2018 11:17 am
According to consumer reports, which knows a lot more on car reliability than any particular Boglehead...Overall, Honda’s reliability is average. That said, in 2018, average reliability is actually pretty darn reliable. The April issue of CR has a chart telling what “average” is for their different reliability categories. For the category “Engine, Major”, you have to go all the way back to 2010, before the average number of cars with problems gets to 2%. Most categories are similar.

As far as overall brands, Toyota is much better than average (but avoid the Tacoma). Audi, BMW, Lexus, Kia, Subaru, Hyundai, and Mitsubishi are better than average. Porsche, Tesla, Honda, Chrysler, Mazda, Infiniti, Mercedes, Buick, Ford, and Nissan are average.

Note that the road test ratings for Hondas are quite a bit higher than for Toyota, and CR recommends a higher percentage of Hondas than Toyotas. But if you are basing your decision entirely on reliability, then Toyota is the best.

2% of all new cars with major engine issues is 1.4M cars. That is just a little better than a 2 sigma quality level in just one category. That’s terrible.
Not new cars, eight year old cars. 2% of all 2010 models. For new cars, the average in all categories was 1% or less. Usually less.

Y.A.Tittle
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Re: Honda reliability slipping?

Post by Y.A.Tittle » Sun Apr 08, 2018 8:47 pm

I own Hondas and Toyotas. Both are pretty darn good. Probably more difference model-to-model than manufactuer-to-manufacturer.

I will say that Toyotas are easier to work on.

CULater
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Re: Honda reliability slipping?

Post by CULater » Sun Apr 08, 2018 10:55 pm

Just opinions. When it comes to vehicle reliability nobody knows nothin'. I don't know why people think they know everything there is to know about this topic, even though they are willing to admit nobody knows nothin' about the market. Let me know.
May you have the hindsight to know where you've been, The foresight to know where you're going, And the insight to know when you've gone too far. ~ Irish Blessing

H-Town
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Re: Honda reliability slipping?

Post by H-Town » Sun Apr 08, 2018 11:31 pm

CULater wrote:
Sun Apr 08, 2018 10:55 pm
Just opinions. When it comes to vehicle reliability nobody knows nothin'. I don't know why people think they know everything there is to know about this topic, even though they are willing to admit nobody knows nothin' about the market. Let me know.
:D :D :D

Yeah, that's true, at least in my case. I maintain my car on regular basis. Doesn't hurt to know more about the car I'm driving. Never had any issue with reliability, other than small stuff stopped working in my old Camry '98 before I handed it down to my brother. Things like window roller, radio, suspension. My Camaro is almost 7 year old - no issue yet *knock on the wood*

Neglect the maintenance and your car will break down regardless of a Toyota.

quantAndHold
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Re: Honda reliability slipping?

Post by quantAndHold » Sun Apr 08, 2018 11:44 pm

CULater wrote:
Sun Apr 08, 2018 10:55 pm
Just opinions. When it comes to vehicle reliability nobody knows nothin'. I don't know why people think they know everything there is to know about this topic, even though they are willing to admit nobody knows nothin' about the market. Let me know.
Except maybe the professional statisticians who collect mountains of data about auto reliability, and then publish their findings in Consumer Reports.

H-Town
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Re: Honda reliability slipping?

Post by H-Town » Sun Apr 08, 2018 11:49 pm

quantAndHold wrote:
Sun Apr 08, 2018 11:44 pm
CULater wrote:
Sun Apr 08, 2018 10:55 pm
Just opinions. When it comes to vehicle reliability nobody knows nothin'. I don't know why people think they know everything there is to know about this topic, even though they are willing to admit nobody knows nothin' about the market. Let me know.
Except maybe the professional statisticians who collect mountains of data about auto reliability, and then publish their findings in Consumer Reports.
Hahahaha,.... yeah of course. Those financial advisors are experts who collect mountains of investing information, technical analytics, or something like that, and will make you rich.

:sharebeer

quantAndHold
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Re: Honda reliability slipping?

Post by quantAndHold » Mon Apr 09, 2018 12:11 am

thangngo wrote:
Sun Apr 08, 2018 11:49 pm
quantAndHold wrote:
Sun Apr 08, 2018 11:44 pm
CULater wrote:
Sun Apr 08, 2018 10:55 pm
Just opinions. When it comes to vehicle reliability nobody knows nothin'. I don't know why people think they know everything there is to know about this topic, even though they are willing to admit nobody knows nothin' about the market. Let me know.
Except maybe the professional statisticians who collect mountains of data about auto reliability, and then publish their findings in Consumer Reports.
Hahahaha,.... yeah of course. Those financial advisors are experts who collect mountains of investing information, technical analytics, or something like that, and will make you rich.

:sharebeer
Got it. Facts and stuff don’t matter. I’ll keep that in mind.

CULater
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Re: Honda reliability slipping?

Post by CULater » Mon Apr 09, 2018 9:41 am

quantAndHold wrote:
Sun Apr 08, 2018 11:44 pm
CULater wrote:
Sun Apr 08, 2018 10:55 pm
Just opinions. When it comes to vehicle reliability nobody knows nothin'. I don't know why people think they know everything there is to know about this topic, even though they are willing to admit nobody knows nothin' about the market. Let me know.
Except maybe the professional statisticians who collect mountains of data about auto reliability, and then publish their findings in Consumer Reports.
CR is not the fountain of knowledge regarding vehicles, that's for sure. Some of the major issues with various models and brands never are reported there. For example, there have been major problems with the inverter in the Toyota Prius, with oil consumption in the Subaru, with fuel dilution of oil in the new Honda CRV to mention a few. Ever hear about this stuff in CR? Nope. These guys steer clear of controversy. They are scared to death of the big vehicle manufacturers. All you get is a rubber stamp endorsements of the good old favs of the past: Toyota, Honda, Subaru. If you really want to know what's going on, you need to investigate other information sources, such as Carcomplaints.com, NHTSA, various brand discussion boards such as those on Honda, Toyota, others, where owners are free to express their uncensored comments and concerns. But even then, you're only getting fragments of information. There is no "authoritative source" on this topic.
May you have the hindsight to know where you've been, The foresight to know where you're going, And the insight to know when you've gone too far. ~ Irish Blessing

unstartable
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Re: Honda reliability slipping?

Post by unstartable » Mon Apr 09, 2018 10:05 am

I feel that car reliability is close enough among manufactures that most people should go out and test drive and inspect every vehicle with a nearby dealer in the class they are interested in and buy the one they like the most.

Jack FFR1846
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Re: Honda reliability slipping?

Post by Jack FFR1846 » Mon Apr 09, 2018 10:06 am

Y.A.Tittle wrote:
Sun Apr 08, 2018 8:47 pm
I own Hondas and Toyotas. Both are pretty darn good. Probably more difference model-to-model than manufactuer-to-manufacturer.

I will say that Toyotas are easier to work on.
But for someone looking at a new car, do you own something that would compare with new? Is it a Direct injected turbo engine with a CVT transmission Honda? If not, I would submit that you might as well own a space shuttle in comparison. They're not at all the same. Toyota is still running 1990 designs, so your Toyota would compare well with a new (at least 2017) one.
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wrongfunds
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Re: Honda reliability slipping?

Post by wrongfunds » Mon Apr 09, 2018 10:14 am

unstartable wrote:
Mon Apr 09, 2018 10:05 am
I feel that car reliability is close enough among manufactures that most people should go out and test drive and inspect every vehicle with a nearby dealer in the class they are interested in and buy the one they like the most.
+1

However, one can still look at the data and try to find the weak spots. One can also look at what is involved in fixing the weak spots. You can also look at maintainability of a vehicle (e.g. remove engine to replace spark plugs type of situation or drop the front half off the car on the ground to change alternator belt) before the purchase. One can also look at the rubber and plastic components inside the engine compartment to see how they will withstand decades of use.

General trends are available for buyer to read. Of course the data itself does not tell you what will happen to you in particulars but the odds are staring at you all the time.

ncbill
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Re: Honda reliability slipping?

Post by ncbill » Mon Apr 09, 2018 10:55 am

Honda has had serious problems with transmissions dating back to the early 2000s.

And once out of warranty their response to customers about the above was often "tough luck."

Currently they're having major oil contamination issues wth their new turbo engine designs.

I've owned Hondas but would not buy a new one.

ssquared87
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Re: Honda reliability slipping?

Post by ssquared87 » Mon Apr 09, 2018 11:07 am

wrongfunds wrote:
Mon Apr 09, 2018 10:14 am
unstartable wrote:
Mon Apr 09, 2018 10:05 am
I feel that car reliability is close enough among manufactures that most people should go out and test drive and inspect every vehicle with a nearby dealer in the class they are interested in and buy the one they like the most.
+1

However, one can still look at the data and try to find the weak spots. One can also look at what is involved in fixing the weak spots. You can also look at maintainability of a vehicle (e.g. remove engine to replace spark plugs type of situation or drop the front half off the car on the ground to change alternator belt) before the purchase. One can also look at the rubber and plastic components inside the engine compartment to see how they will withstand decades of use.

General trends are available for buyer to read. Of course the data itself does not tell you what will happen to you in particulars but the odds are staring at you all the time.
+2

NJdad6
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Re: Honda reliability slipping?

Post by NJdad6 » Mon Apr 09, 2018 11:44 am

munemaker wrote:
Sun Apr 08, 2018 11:45 am
Alexa9 wrote:
Sun Apr 08, 2018 11:39 am
quantAndHold wrote:
Sun Apr 08, 2018 11:17 am
According to consumer reports, which knows a lot more on car reliability than any particular Boglehead...Overall, Honda’s reliability is average. That said, in 2018, average reliability is actually pretty darn reliable. The April issue of CR has a chart telling what “average” is for their different reliability categories. For the category “Engine, Major”, you have to go all the way back to 2010, before the average number of cars with problems gets to 2%. Most categories are similar.

As far as overall brands, Toyota is much better than average (but avoid the Tacoma). Audi, BMW, Lexus, Kia, Subaru, Hyundai, and Mitsubishi are better than average. Porsche, Tesla, Honda, Chrysler, Mazda, Infiniti, Mercedes, Buick, Ford, and Nissan are average.

Note that the road test ratings for Hondas are quite a bit higher than for Toyota, and CR recommends a higher percentage of Hondas than Toyotas. But if you are basing your decision entirely on reliability, then Toyota is the best.
Good analysis. The Toyota seems more reliable if you're driving it until it dies but on the downside it feels more like an appliance.
+1 - This is the way I see it too.
++1. I have had Hondas since 1990. Yes, they are not as reliable as they used to be. I agree with an average rating. However reliability is very model and option specific.

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fandango
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Re: Honda reliability slipping?

Post by fandango » Mon Apr 09, 2018 6:42 pm

The reliability bar keeps rising every year.

It's not so much that Toyota and Honda are getting worse - other makes of car are getting better!

NJdad6
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Re: Honda reliability slipping?

Post by NJdad6 » Tue Apr 10, 2018 8:42 am

fandango wrote:
Mon Apr 09, 2018 6:42 pm
The reliability bar keeps rising every year.

It's not so much that Toyota and Honda are getting worse - other makes of car are getting better!
Agree that many other brands are getting much more reliable. I do believe tha Honda is getting worse. There are a number of issues now that did not exist 10-15 years ago. I think it is a combination of much more complicated vehicles and a decrease in the quality of parts.

Dead Man Walking
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Re: Honda reliability slipping?

Post by Dead Man Walking » Wed Apr 11, 2018 1:02 am

I've owned 6 Hondas. I agree that their reliability has dipped into average territory especially with new models. The last 2 that I purchased were the last model of a generation. My reasoning was that Honda had probably resolved any problems over the 4-5 years of the generation's existence. So far these 2 have been extremely reliable. No recalls either. My 2007 Accord was actually one that wasn't involved in the seatbelt recall. Of course, I'm never driving the model with the latest styling or innovations.

DMW

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whodidntante
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Re: Honda reliability slipping?

Post by whodidntante » Wed Apr 11, 2018 1:16 am

I don't think it's slipping, I think it was overrated to begin with. I had a Honda that was hard to live with and the definition of a "cheap" car in so many ways, and they've had some major issues through the years. Some older Accords liked to ask the owner for a new transmission, quite prematurely. My SO has a modern Accord and pays more for maintenance than I've paid for any car. I think that car will be dumped (I mean traded in ) in a couple years max.

To be clear, I'm not bashing Honda, but I don't think it's fantastically better than other brands I've owned. It's average.

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MortgageOnBlack
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Re: Honda reliability slipping?

Post by MortgageOnBlack » Wed Apr 11, 2018 1:30 am

I'm still using my 91 Civic sedan as my daily driver (currently at 158k). Reliability aside, I'm not a fan of the look of the newer Honda/Acuras. I really felt like Honda nailed it in the early 90's and slowly dropped ever since. I had a 91 and 93 Legend that are still my favorite cars owned to this day. I absolutely cringe when I see what Honda did to the Civic and Acura RL.

Although, Honda has been good to me, my next car will likely be a Toyota if buying for cheap commuting purposes. I may splurge and treat myself to a luxury sedan though (I like Infiniti and some of the older Acura models)

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snackdog
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Re: Honda reliability slipping?

Post by snackdog » Wed Apr 11, 2018 2:51 am

The most reliable source of dependability info/prediction on new cars is the JD Powers initial quality study. For 2017 Honda and Acura both ranked in the bottom half.

However, in 2017 the industry average was 97 problems per 100 vehicles, so Honda at 105 was low and just ahead of Dodge.

In 2008, industry average was 118 and Honda scored 110 (top quartile).

If the surveys are comparable, then Honda has improved in reliability over the last 10 years but the rest of industry has improved at a higher rate and overtaken Honda.

It is certainly the case that more features on a car means more potential things to break. This has dogged European luxury brands for ages. As Honda adds more features to typical cars sold, reliability may fall.

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Dog_Papa
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Re: Honda reliability slipping?

Post by Dog_Papa » Wed Apr 11, 2018 8:48 am

Consumer Reports is only one of several different organizations and blogs, that review cars & light trucks for consumers. I would suggest
getting several different opinions, many of which can be gotten for free on a web site, and see if you can find a consensuses. Another
consideration is resale figures. Strong resale suggests good quality and reliability, and less deprecation for the buyer of a new auto.
Edmunds, Blue Book and NADA Guide can give you info on resale.

What is going on with reliability right now, is auto makers trying to get better mpg. So as to meet future EPA requirements. This has been
a factor in reducing reliability. Turbo-charging for instance adds a lot of complexity, cost and likely future repairs to a car. They do get a
little better mpg, but not all that much. Turbo replacement can cost $3,000. Chrysler and several European auto makers tried and failed
marketing turbo cars in the 1980s. Turbo failure was the reason for the Chrysler's decision to stop selling turbo cars. Turbos work on diesel
engines much better, because the exhaust from a diesel in not near as hot as gasoline exhaust. At this point in time I would not buy a turbo
gasoline powered car or truck.

Transmissions with 7 to 10 speeds is another way to get better mpg. Toyota's 4-cly Camry w/8 speed auto trans gets 41 mpg on the hwy. Ford
& GM conspired and colluded (they didn't even try to hide it....lol) on the design of a 10 speed trans, to give pickup trucks better mpg. Time
will tell if these transmissions will last like the 4-6 speed auto transmissions currently in use.

Other technology like cly deactivation has also added to the complexity of cars and trucks. While not saving very much fuel. These are the
reason reliability seems to be slipping.

stan1
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Re: Honda reliability slipping?

Post by stan1 » Wed Apr 11, 2018 9:02 am

All manufacturers are balancing improved mileage (often that means lower weight), improved safety, manufacturing cost, warranty service cost, and customer desires for sophisticated infotainment systems with reliability. Infotainment and other electronics are a major source of problems in newer cars. Some of the electronics associated with safety systems like blind spot detection are still relatively new & reliability/cost of repair out of warranty might still be unknown. These systems have been around for awhile as options on high end cars but only within the past few years have they been pushed down as widely installed equipment in cars in the $20-35K range.

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wander
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Re: Honda reliability slipping?

Post by wander » Wed Apr 11, 2018 9:12 am

I think CR is one thing and how you maintain the car plays an important role as well. For example, I've been driving a Nissan Maxima last 20+ years, and I know Nissan is not a top reliable brand. However, it has reached 390,000 miles without new engine or transmission. My friends say that I am just lucky. Whatever it is, I have saved a lot of money for not buying new cars.
Last edited by wander on Wed Nov 14, 2018 10:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

dbr
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Re: Honda reliability slipping?

Post by dbr » Wed Apr 11, 2018 9:16 am

quantAndHold wrote:
Sun Apr 08, 2018 11:44 pm
CULater wrote:
Sun Apr 08, 2018 10:55 pm
Just opinions. When it comes to vehicle reliability nobody knows nothin'. I don't know why people think they know everything there is to know about this topic, even though they are willing to admit nobody knows nothin' about the market. Let me know.
Except maybe the professional statisticians who collect mountains of data about auto reliability, and then publish their findings in Consumer Reports.
Who just like the financial statisticians never publish error bars around their data or actually test whether there is a statistically significant difference across makes and models. The problem is also plagued by the fact that the data set changes model year by model year and predicting this model year from past model years is subject to significant uncertainty, the old "past results . . ." The worst misinformation is skating where the puck was to avoid problems that have long since been fixed while having no idea what the current problems are going to be.

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monkey_business
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Re: Honda reliability slipping?

Post by monkey_business » Wed Apr 11, 2018 12:12 pm

Dog_Papa wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 8:48 am
What is going on with reliability right now, is auto makers trying to get better mpg. So as to meet future EPA requirements. This has been
a factor in reducing reliability. Turbo-charging for instance adds a lot of complexity, cost and likely future repairs to a car. They do get a
little better mpg, but not all that much. Turbo replacement can cost $3,000. Chrysler and several European auto makers tried and failed
marketing turbo cars in the 1980s. Turbo failure was the reason for the Chrysler's decision to stop selling turbo cars.
I agree. I think the same has been happening with appliances such as washers. Stringent requirements for efficiency have made them a lot more complicated and less reliable. Almost impossible to get a basic, reliable washer these days.

I do think that some of the new powertrains are very impressive though. 32/42 mpg while getting 174hp and actual low end power on a Civic is quite a jump from the high revving, no torque 100-120hp Civics of the 90s.

jacksonm
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Re: Honda reliability slipping?

Post by jacksonm » Wed Nov 14, 2018 12:56 pm

Bought my first Honda in March of this year - a 2018 CRV. Mostly it was because it was the car my wife wanted although I thought it would be a good choice due to Honda's reputation for quality.

It may still turn out to be a good choice but I've had two things so far that have caused me to take it to the dealer.

1.) The Collision avoidance system seems to get a lot of false positives with the word "BRAKE" flashing on the control panel. My wife says it happens frequently but it only happened once for me and I could see no rhyme or reason for it. Fortunately it just comes on for a second or two. If it ever actually applied the brakes hard I'm sure she would really freak out. The dealer said they tested it and it was functioning normally and the service representative showed me the place in the manual where it showed all the things that can trigger it. Basically anything, the way I read it.

2.) It has cloth interior and the threads on one spot of the driver's seat have started to unravel. I took it in this morning and they said they were going to do a complimentary fix one time but that it was most likely caused by something we were doing. I politely called B.S. on that because my wife drove the 13 year old Hyundai with 200k miles on it that we traded in and the upholstery was still in perfect condition. She is doing nothing different with the CRV. The same is true of the 2006 Dodge Caravan I'm still driving.

Anybody else have either of these problems?

harrington
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Re: Honda reliability slipping?

Post by harrington » Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:15 pm

I drive a 2012 Fiat 500 that CR says is one of the worse cars on the road as far as reliability. I bought it used in 2012 for 10K from a Nissan dealer with only 600 miles on it. I maintain all my cars and I have to say it is the most reliable car I have ever owned. I'm currently at 130,000 miles and other than a few issues fixed under warranty I have had no issues. Did I get lucky? Possibly.....I really don't see the large gaps in quality that we used to see many years ago. I think most modern new cars should easily make it to 100,000 miles with no issues. I passed my 2009 Elantra down to my son and he has close to 200,000 on it with no issues. I think Hyundai makes great reliable cars and it's tough to beat a 10 year warranty on the powertrain.

3feetpete
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Re: Honda reliability slipping?

Post by 3feetpete » Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:31 pm

I bought Subaru's twice based on Consumer Reports Reliability. Both had major issues at 100k miles. I will never buy a Subaru again or listen to Consumer Reports. I suspect Consumers doesn't gather much data on high mileage cars. Any car should get 100k miles without a problem so Consumers telling me a car has good reliability at less than 100k is of no value.

I had a 2007 Honda Pilot that went over 200k miles without a major problem. Based on that I was going to buy a 2018 Honda CRV until I read the thread in here about the oil dilution problem. The oil dilution issue seems to be the result of Honda trying to get better fuel economy in order to meet Fed Requirements. I suspect as the entire industry attempts to increase their gas mileage, reliability may suffer and getting a reliable model may be somewhat of a crap shoot.

I bought a Hyundai Tucson instead of the CRV. So far I am happy with it but it remains to be seen whether it will be a good high mileage car. At least I saved some money up front and it has a 100k mile warranty on the power train.

randomguy
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Re: Honda reliability slipping?

Post by randomguy » Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:32 pm

snackdog wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 2:51 am
The most reliable source of dependability info/prediction on new cars is the JD Powers initial quality study. For 2017 Honda and Acura both ranked in the bottom half.
Initial quality is all about how easy it is to pair your phone to the car😁 What people really want to know is something along the lines of what is the average cost in repairs/maintence to run a car 10 years/150k (or 15/225). That data isnt really out there. I dont know what the euros do, but every repait I have had seems to require 2x as many hours as my honda😃 My honda has been in the shop 2x (2 times versus 1) as either my audi or dodge. Small sample size issues of course but getting a 300 dollar bill for bad engine sensor is one thing. Getting an 800 bill for a replacement door lock is another

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whodidntante
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Re: Honda reliability slipping?

Post by whodidntante » Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:40 pm

harrington wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:15 pm
I drive a 2012 Fiat 500 that CR says is one of the worse cars on the road as far as reliability. I bought it used in 2012 for 10K from a Nissan dealer with only 600 miles on it. I maintain all my cars and I have to say it is the most reliable car I have ever owned. I'm currently at 130,000 miles and other than a few issues fixed under warranty I have had no issues. Did I get lucky? Possibly.....I really don't see the large gaps in quality that we used to see many years ago. I think most modern new cars should easily make it to 100,000 miles with no issues. I passed my 2009 Elantra down to my son and he has close to 200,000 on it with no issues. I think Hyundai makes great reliable cars and it's tough to beat a 10 year warranty on the powertrain.
I've also had excellent results from cars on the CR naughty list.

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JPH
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Re: Honda reliability slipping?

Post by JPH » Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:47 pm

jacksonm wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 12:56 pm
Bought my first Honda in March of this year - a 2018 CRV. Mostly it was because it was the car my wife wanted although I thought it would be a good choice due to Honda's reputation for quality.

It may still turn out to be a good choice but I've had two things so far that have caused me to take it to the dealer.

1.) The Collision avoidance system seems to get a lot of false positives with the word "BRAKE" flashing on the control panel. My wife says it happens frequently but it only happened once for me and I could see no rhyme or reason for it. Fortunately it just comes on for a second or two. If it ever actually applied the brakes hard I'm sure she would really freak out. The dealer said they tested it and it was functioning normally and the service representative showed me the place in the manual where it showed all the things that can trigger it. Basically anything, the way I read it.

2.) It has cloth interior and the threads on one spot of the driver's seat have started to unravel. I took it in this morning and they said they were going to do a complimentary fix one time but that it was most likely caused by something we were doing. I politely called B.S. on that because my wife drove the 13 year old Hyundai with 200k miles on it that we traded in and the upholstery was still in perfect condition. She is doing nothing different with the CRV. The same is true of the 2006 Dodge Caravan I'm still driving.

Anybody else have either of these problems?
I wish I had your problems. Check out this thread.
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=244271
While the moments do summersaults into eternity | Cling to their coattails and beg them to stay - Townes Van Zandt

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munemaker
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Re: Honda reliability slipping?

Post by munemaker » Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:52 pm

CULater wrote:
Sun Apr 08, 2018 10:55 pm
Just opinions. When it comes to vehicle reliability nobody knows nothin'.
Consumer Reports reliability ratings are based on hard data, not opinions. Unlike the market, in this case, someone knows somethin'.

CoAndy
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Re: Honda reliability slipping?

Post by CoAndy » Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:55 pm

This is an anecdote of course but I bought my 2012 Honda Accord on November 11, 2011. Will hit 82k miles tonight after work. Have not had a single problem with it.

jacksonm
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Re: Honda reliability slipping?

Post by jacksonm » Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:09 pm

JPH wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:47 pm
jacksonm wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 12:56 pm
Bought my first Honda in March of this year - a 2018 CRV. Mostly it was because it was the car my wife wanted although I thought it would be a good choice due to Honda's reputation for quality.

It may still turn out to be a good choice but I've had two things so far that have caused me to take it to the dealer.

1.) The Collision avoidance system seems to get a lot of false positives with the word "BRAKE" flashing on the control panel. My wife says it happens frequently but it only happened once for me and I could see no rhyme or reason for it. Fortunately it just comes on for a second or two. If it ever actually applied the brakes hard I'm sure she would really freak out. The dealer said they tested it and it was functioning normally and the service representative showed me the place in the manual where it showed all the things that can trigger it. Basically anything, the way I read it.

2.) It has cloth interior and the threads on one spot of the driver's seat have started to unravel. I took it in this morning and they said they were going to do a complimentary fix one time but that it was most likely caused by something we were doing. I politely called B.S. on that because my wife drove the 13 year old Hyundai with 200k miles on it that we traded in and the upholstery was still in perfect condition. She is doing nothing different with the CRV. The same is true of the 2006 Dodge Caravan I'm still driving.

Anybody else have either of these problems?
I wish I had your problems. Check out this thread.
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=244271
Yes, I'm well aware of that thread and have been keeping my eye on it. I live in Florida but will be giving my new CRV a cold weather test next month when I drive to Columbus, Ohio and Chicago.

sport
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Re: Honda reliability slipping?

Post by sport » Wed Nov 14, 2018 5:45 pm

I take my cars to a local private mechanic for service. He specializes in service for Hondas and Toyotas. His personal car is a Toyota and so was his previous car.

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tennisplyr
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Re: Honda reliability slipping?

Post by tennisplyr » Wed Nov 14, 2018 6:06 pm

Owned Hondas since 1983, many with well over 100k on them. Presently own an Accord EX and Civic Hatchback. Have not noticed any declines. The batteries may be going a bit quicker, maybe. Never owned a Toyota.
Those who move forward with a happy spirit will find that things always work out.

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Re: Honda reliability slipping?

Post by dknightd » Wed Nov 14, 2018 6:42 pm

munemaker wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:52 pm
CULater wrote:
Sun Apr 08, 2018 10:55 pm
Just opinions. When it comes to vehicle reliability nobody knows nothin'.
Consumer Reports reliability ratings are based on hard data, not opinions. Unlike the market, in this case, someone knows somethin'.
I'm pretty sure Consumer reports bases their reliability ratings on the annual survey they send out. I'm lazy I have never completed their survey. Their ratings are basically based on the opinion/experience of the people who return their survey. The reality is you do not know how reliable something will be until you have owned it for some time. By then it is too late since the new model will be different. I'd be wary of the honda engine that seems to have an gas in the oil problem, but the other ones are still probably good. I don't know . . .

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ClevrChico
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Re: Honda reliability slipping?

Post by ClevrChico » Wed Nov 14, 2018 7:55 pm

I have a nine year old Honda, daily driven since new. It's had:

- Three safety recalls. All due to Honda's suppliers. Cost to fix: $0, and may make me money due to a class action lawsuit.
- Two repairs due to cheap plastic bits breaking. DIY cost, < $50 of parts. That's it.
- Dealer - Terrible, hostile, attempted to expand the warranty work into big money maintenance that was not needed or called for. Damaged car during one warranty repair, requiring a return trip. Unfortunately, I can't leave a bad survey, as I never know when I'll return for another warranty repair.

It's a hoot to drive every day. Great interior and near-perfect manual transmission. Very zippy engine, I bounce it off the rev limiter daily. Maintenance is dead simple.

Toyota would surely win on reliability/dealer experience, but at the cost of being boring.

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Re: Honda reliability slipping?

Post by kmurp » Wed Nov 14, 2018 8:28 pm

Our 2008 accord has been the most reliable Honda (or any car) that we have owned. Only 95k miles at this point but absolutely zero problems; only routine maintenance.

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6miths
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Re: Honda reliability slipping?

Post by 6miths » Wed Nov 14, 2018 9:36 pm

My personal experience is yes but pretty limited sample size. Have owned 13 Honda/Acura vehicles over the years and up until the 2010 Odyssey they were all great. The Odyssey's transmission went at 65k. Still drive and love my 2007 Acura CSX Type S (a tuned Civic for the Canadian market) which now has 180k on it and has only ever had brakes and one clutch done. Current 2014 Odyssey had a power door cable break at about 35k and some door lock issues. I don't like the styling of the current Civics and Acuras so my last purchase was a Hyundai Elantra and next will be a Subaru Impreza.
'It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so!' Mark Twain

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Re: Honda reliability slipping?

Post by TheOscarGuy » Thu Nov 15, 2018 6:48 am

Alexa9 wrote:
Sun Apr 08, 2018 10:14 am
I know many on here claim Honda/Toyota are the best when it comes to reliability but Honda seems to be slipping a bit lately although I still like their cars. I wonder if others have noticed this too.
I may consider a Toyota for my next vehicle. Honda seems to be pushing towards new transmissions and turbos (Accord, CR-V, Civic) while Toyota is staying fairly conservative with naturally aspirated engines and proven transmissions.
I was disappointed as well when Honda went all in with CVT. Turbos, I am not sure why you think that is a bad thing.
Honestly, after they deal with their problems with CVT, I think their reliability would be same as what it was, and same as Toyotas.

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sleepysurf
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Re: Honda reliability slipping?

Post by sleepysurf » Thu Nov 15, 2018 8:17 am

I've never owned a Honda/Acura, but am (er, ? was) interested in buying the new '19 Acura RDX. Unfortunately, the Acura forums are filled with exasperating complaints about mechanical and technical/software issues with this (U.S. manufactured) crossover SUV (for example... https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-rdx-problems-fixes-458/). Seems there are far more problems being reported than usual for a new model design.

Cars today are rolling computers, and major software glitches (such as the reported RDX "limp mode" and others) give new meaning to the "blue screen of death" scenario. Although Toyota/Lexus and Nissan/Infinity have had their fair share of issues, I don't recall (pardon the pun) reading about so many serious "bugs" with their latest models.
Retired 2018 | ~50/45/5 (partially sliced and diced)

Nowizard
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Re: Honda reliability slipping?

Post by Nowizard » Thu Nov 15, 2018 8:29 am

Years ago, my wife purchased a Dodge Intrepid due to its styling, and I intrepidly hoped it would be reasonably reliable. It was her "car of a lifetime" with no problems, and she has always had reliable cars regardless of the model. The driver is a key, along with maintenance in our experience even though our cars never darken the door of a dealership after purchase except for a recall. If you look closely at CR ratings on many products, the overall, numerical rating may be within very few percentage points for many of the same products. Seems to me that choosing a car based on personal preference, followed by adhering to maintenance requirements (With an independent mechanic in our case) and individual driving style will determine reliability.

Tim

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