Paging BH Gearheads: Reasonable Net Worth for Exotic

Questions on how we spend our money and our time - consumer goods and services, home and vehicle, leisure and recreational activities
lazydavid
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Re: Paging BH Gearheads: Reasonable Net Worth for Exotic

Post by lazydavid » Sat Mar 17, 2018 1:58 pm

investingdad wrote:
Sat Mar 17, 2018 6:49 am
This is easy.

We are ok spending 1.2% of our net on a car, having done so last year.

So 20 million for me.
It's very easy to misread this as "I'm worth $1.7B, so I don't mind dropping $20M on a car every now and again". :sharebeer

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Re: Paging BH Gearheads: Reasonable Net Worth for Exotic

Post by BJJ nerd » Sat Mar 17, 2018 2:01 pm

hightower wrote:
Sat Mar 17, 2018 12:55 pm
BJJ nerd wrote:
Fri Mar 16, 2018 9:53 pm
First off, this is a fantastic forum that I came across relatively recently. Really looking forward to picking up some wisdom on these pages!

First, a bit about me. 34yrs old, happily married with 2 awesome kids (2 & 4 yrs old). While I don't consider myself to be a materialistic person, I do have a huge soft spot for cars. Always have been into cars as long as I can remember. All this to say that my lust for sports cars / exotics is not correlated to the typical status symbol drivers.

Now to the question, for those of you that share this passion, what would seem like a reasonable level of investment assets / net worth to even entertain a purchase of an exotic (think $250-300k).

I do live below my means, and save about half of my annual income (~ $120-150k depending on bonus), however I don't think my current investments of 1.3m is even close to justify/support that level of spending.

I don' think I would feel comfortable spending that kind of money until maybe the 3-4m mark.

I'm well aware that there is a huge number of factors that would be at play. Just wanted to get the discussion started and get your thoughts and opinions. :sharebeer
What line of work are you in? Maybe it's my profession (I'm a physician and see lot's of people with lives ruined due to car wrecks) or the fact I'm getting older (just turned 36), but I have ZERO desire to drive like a maniac. Maybe in my 20's I briefly thought it was fun to drive fast and turn corners like a race car driver, but now I see life as too precious to risk doing stuff like that. I mean, don't get me wrong, I appreciate the engineering and power of high end sports cars. But, I don't think I would ever want to spend that kind of cash on a car. I would however, love to get a fully restored (not hot rod, but actual restoration) late 1940's Cadillac convertible or Coupe DeVille however;) It would need to be under 50k for me to feel good about it though. Otherwise I'd be afraid to take it out of the garage, lol
I'm in finance. Started with IBanking, and currently do capital planning at a bank.

Did I mention I also do HPDEs on a motorcycle? :oops:

You're proving out my point. As we age, and arguably get wiser, our priorities change. I'm fairly certain that 25+ years from now I will have very little desire for flashy, exciting, adrenaline-packed supercars. Although, I'll most likely be able to easily afford any 'toy' at that point.

So, in my mind, it's really about finding that balance of enjoying your hard work throughout all stages in life, rather than squirrelling away every dollar your whole life only to hit 'that number' and having lived a less fulfilling life as a result.

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oldcomputerguy
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Re: Paging BH Gearheads: Reasonable Net Worth for Exotic

Post by oldcomputerguy » Sat Mar 17, 2018 3:55 pm

tibbitts wrote:
Sat Mar 17, 2018 10:59 am
oldcomputerguy wrote:
Sat Mar 17, 2018 8:05 am
I guess I just don’t get the allure. I cannot imagine myself ever plunking down that much for a car, especially one that I would be reluctant to drive.

Of course, my first new car was a 1977 zippo lighter Ford Pinto, so what do I know? :?
I don't get the exotic car thing either but most people have something they'd like to splurge on if they could. Oldcomputerguy probably wrote that post just before driving his Pinto to the hangar and strapping himself into his P-51.
Nah. I don't have that Pinto anymore (that was a long, long time ago). And there has been more than once in my life when I wished I had a nice Piper Warrior or Cessna 172. But other expenses always got in the way. :(
It’s taken me a lot of years, but I’ve come around to this: If you’re dumb, surround yourself with smart people. And if you’re smart, surround yourself with smart people who disagree with you.

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Re: Paging BH Gearheads: Reasonable Net Worth for Exotic

Post by BJJ nerd » Sat Mar 17, 2018 7:39 pm

HardHitter wrote:
Sat Mar 17, 2018 12:40 pm
It is crazy how many Bogleheads are car guys. I've seen 2-3 threads, including one of my own, the last week on purchasing "nice cars"

I am in the same situation. I currently own a 997 911 Turbo as my weekend cruiser and have been researching and looking into upgrading to a 991 911 Turbo, Mclaren 570s or the Audi R8 V10 Plus.

Each car has their own pros/cons and I only plan to own these cars for 2-3 years. In my head, I'm not looking at it as "I'm spending $150K for a car" but more so, "I'm spending $30-$50K on a super car" because that is likely going to be the cost of ownership (depreciation, maintenance, random problems) for those 2-3 years.

At the end of the day, I know that family/other priorities come first. My wife and I are expecting our first kid at the end of the year and we are saving up to buy another house. Buying a $150K car is most likely the stupidest decision to ever make, but as I said, when the time comes where we need to pay/invest in the kids college and/or buy another house and the $100K most likely I'll get from it is needed, the car is gone and I am OK with that. But time is valuable and if you wait, perhaps you may never get the chance later on in time.
Good to see a fellow car guy on the forum. Congrats on the upcoming addition to the family!

I would vote 570S, it would probably feel / look the most special but be the least 'daily drivable' of the three. I would love to one day daily a 991 Turbo.

Interesting take on considering the cost, certainly puts things in a different perspective.

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Re: Paging BH Gearheads: Reasonable Net Worth for Exotic

Post by BJJ nerd » Sat Mar 17, 2018 7:58 pm

Archimedes wrote:
Sat Mar 17, 2018 10:33 am
I always bought very economical cars. Until my net worth was quite high. Now I feel comfortable spending roughly one month's net salary on a very expensive car. So for you, you aren't going to make it to a supercar by my personal criteria. But if you want it, and you are willing to pay the price in terms of delayed financial security, it is your choice and you only live once. Good luck.
Is this a typo? 2m annual salary would produce +/- 110k in net monthly income. Are you saying your salary is 4m+ per year? If so, I don't think this rule / guideline would apply to 99.99% of us. Slightly different matter if you said all-in income.

investor997
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Re: Paging BH Gearheads: Reasonable Net Worth for Exotic

Post by investor997 » Sun Mar 18, 2018 1:30 pm

If you've already got a modded, 500hp 340i, a modded Z06 and you track sport bikes, then I don't think an exotic will offer a noteworthy improvement in terms of ability to generate an adrenaline rush. I think it should be more about the overall experience (sights, sounds, etc). To that end, the 991.2 GT3 is the proper choice. Get one with a manual transmission. Of all the exotic/semi-exotic iron out there, I don't think anything else will retain its value as well. You could own it for a few years and likely suffer minimal financial hit - or even turn a profit as one other poster did. Definitely get a stick and not PDK. Twenty years from now they'll probably be worth a small fortune, just as the 993 C4S and 993 Turbos are today.

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Re: Paging BH Gearheads: Reasonable Net Worth for Exotic

Post by BJJ nerd » Sun Mar 18, 2018 6:31 pm

investor997 wrote:
Sun Mar 18, 2018 1:30 pm
If you've already got a modded, 500hp 340i, a modded Z06 and you track sport bikes, then I don't think an exotic will offer a noteworthy improvement in terms of ability to generate an adrenaline rush. I think it should be more about the overall experience (sights, sounds, etc). To that end, the 991.2 GT3 is the proper choice. Get one with a manual transmission. Of all the exotic/semi-exotic iron out there, I don't think anything else will retain its value as well. You could own it for a few years and likely suffer minimal financial hit - or even turn a profit as one other poster did. Definitely get a stick and not PDK. Twenty years from now they'll probably be worth a small fortune, just as the 993 C4S and 993 Turbos are today.
Thanks for chiming in. Don't get me wrong, I'm pretty happy with my current garage. Just trying to map out next logical step in my addiction.

I've just always written off GT3s/RSs as track cars that can be driven on the street. Also, I'd certainly need to double my net worth a few times before I would feel comfortable pushing a car like that on the track.

But I guess the latest crop of GT cars is much more street friendly, so may also be a good fit for the street... have not had a chance to get behind the wheel of a 991 GT3.

My challenge is the going rate for 991.2 is 180+... that's 570S territory.

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Re: Paging BH Gearheads: Reasonable Net Worth for Exotic

Post by ssquared87 » Sun Mar 18, 2018 9:43 pm

Even if I had 10M I wouldn’t get one as a daily driver. Pulling up to dinner in a 488 is idiotic and arrogant. If I were serious about Motorsport and actually went to the track a few times a month I would consider one as a track car which is what it’s made for.

On public roads it’s more fun driving something slower and taking advantage of a greater percentage of its potential.

The most fun I’ve had on public roads has been with a Subaru BRZ because I don’t have to worry about getting arrested. My E36 M3 is fun too.

I’ve driven many far more powerful cars on track and on the road, but swear by the saying “More fun to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow”

As much as I love driving on the track and fast cars, my daily driver is a Bmw 530i M-sport. Great handling sufficient power especially given my traffic filled commute, and I don’t feel like I’m holding back all the time so my driving is more relaxed.

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Re: Paging BH Gearheads: Reasonable Net Worth for Exotic

Post by ChinchillaWhiplash » Sun Mar 18, 2018 10:07 pm

How about a Cayman GT4? Nice car for the money with phenomenal performance.

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Re: Paging BH Gearheads: Reasonable Net Worth for Exotic

Post by NoGambleNoFuture » Mon Mar 19, 2018 12:00 am

ssquared87 wrote:
Sun Mar 18, 2018 9:43 pm
Even if I had 10M I wouldn’t get one as a daily driver. Pulling up to dinner in a 488 is idiotic and arrogant. If I were serious about Motorsport and actually went to the track a few times a month I would consider one as a track car which is what it’s made for.
I don't know, man... I took a 488 to the track at DreamRacing in Vegas a few months ago and I can't wait to pull up to dinner in one of those in the future.

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Re: Paging BH Gearheads: Reasonable Net Worth for Exotic

Post by OldAtHeart » Mon Mar 19, 2018 12:02 am

FWIW, I am around the same age and income with higher net worth but less liquid (RE equity). I came very close to buying an exotic last year for around half the price you are asking about and backed out last minute. It was a used model that is rare enough that it should hold value better than most, but I still decided it wasn’t right. The cost of taxes, insurance, maintenance, registration, etc adds up, and the irony of these cars is that they lose value every mile you drive them, but what good are they if you don’t?

Buying used with low miles is definitely the way to go, and buy something that has a chance of holding value. The new McLarens are very nice cars but drop like rocks. Find something like a used Lambo with the 6-speed manual transmission and then you have are in a better spot depreciation-wise.

I struggle with this myself because my heart loves cars but my brain loves saving and investing. Finding a balance is hard.

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Re: Paging BH Gearheads: Reasonable Net Worth for Exotic

Post by BJJ nerd » Mon Mar 19, 2018 7:56 am

OldAtHeart wrote:
Mon Mar 19, 2018 12:02 am
FWIW, I am around the same age and income with higher net worth but less liquid (RE equity). I came very close to buying an exotic last year for around half the price you are asking about and backed out last minute. It was a used model that is rare enough that it should hold value better than most, but I still decided it wasn’t right. The cost of taxes, insurance, maintenance, registration, etc adds up, and the irony of these cars is that they lose value every mile you drive them, but what good are they if you don’t?

Buying used with low miles is definitely the way to go, and buy something that has a chance of holding value. The new McLarens are very nice cars but drop like rocks. Find something like a used Lambo with the 6-speed manual transmission and then you have are in a better spot depreciation-wise.

I struggle with this myself because my heart loves cars but my brain loves saving and investing. Finding a balance is hard.
All good points, I'm right there with you on the last one.

I would not buy one now if you put a gun to my head, but get a kick out of contemplating when I would be in position to do so.

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Re: Paging BH Gearheads: Reasonable Net Worth for Exotic

Post by Jack FFR1846 » Mon Mar 19, 2018 8:20 am

BJJ nerd wrote:
Sat Mar 17, 2018 1:28 pm
It's funny how insecure some people are to feel the need to 'live up' to a certain standard that would need to come with owning an exotic.
That's very unfair and quite judgmental. Let me restate it a little and tell me what you think.

It's funny how insecure some people are to feel the need to 'live up' to a certain standard that would need to come with having a 2 comma retirement portfolio.

There are true car guys out there who love the cars. They don't own a car because they're insecure. They love the design or look or feel of the car. Back before kids, I would spend an entire weekend washing, waxing, cleaning, maintaining my 86 Laser Red Dodge Daytona Turbo Z CS package. I didn't do this so someone else would notice the car. I did it for me. People value different things. I tend to value good looking, good handling cars. I don't drink so a $500 bottle of wine/scotch/whatever is radiator fluid to me. A self driving car that's all the rage on this forum to me already exists.....it's called a bus. Exotic travel seems like a waste of time to me because I burned out on work travel years ago. That doesn't mean that any of those things are worthless to someone else. Heck, since I don't drink, I could probably buy an exotic with the money I haven't spent over the years on alcohol.
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Re: Paging BH Gearheads: Reasonable Net Worth for Exotic

Post by Watty » Mon Mar 19, 2018 8:25 am

I don't have a good answer as to what is reasonable but you should also budget for your spouse to be able to spend similar amounts on their toys so you should probably take whatever number you come up with and double it.
oldcomputerguy wrote:
Sat Mar 17, 2018 3:55 pm
tibbitts wrote:
Sat Mar 17, 2018 10:59 am
oldcomputerguy wrote:
Sat Mar 17, 2018 8:05 am
I guess I just don’t get the allure. I cannot imagine myself ever plunking down that much for a car, especially one that I would be reluctant to drive.

Of course, my first new car was a 1977 zippo lighter Ford Pinto, so what do I know? :?
I don't get the exotic car thing either but most people have something they'd like to splurge on if they could. Oldcomputerguy probably wrote that post just before driving his Pinto to the hangar and strapping himself into his P-51.
Nah. I don't have that Pinto anymore (that was a long, long time ago). And there has been more than once in my life when I wished I had a nice Piper Warrior or Cessna 172. But other expenses always got in the way. :(
I just sold my Honda Fit. A couple of times when I was driving it I would be stuck in stop and go Atlanta traffic next to something like a Maserati and I would rev my engine like I wanted to race.

I am not a "car guy" but I REALLY do not understand wanting to drive a car like that in traffic like we have around here.

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Re: Paging BH Gearheads: Reasonable Net Worth for Exotic

Post by bgf » Mon Mar 19, 2018 8:45 am

sambb wrote:
Sat Mar 17, 2018 6:59 am
Have owned many high end brands and exotics.
My advice is the following:
Buy a ~100k preowned high end porsche 911, drive it for a year or two. See if you can stomach the issues with regards to parking, insurance, and maintenance. If you can, then consider an exotic for weekend fun. You wont lose much on the 911.
I would NOT go from a toyota to a lambo without an intermediate step for a few years.
while i cannot say i have personal experience with a 911/lambo, this is the same rationale i used when purchasing my first motorcycle. apart from not wanting to kill myself within 300m of the parking lot, i also didn't want to make too big of a jump financially without ever having lived with one previously. i was happy that i did because i realized that it was just a phase and not a true lifelong passion. sold the bike a few years ago for around what i paid. still have the gear though...
“TE OCCIDERE POSSUNT SED TE EDERE NON POSSUNT NEFAS EST"

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Re: Paging BH Gearheads: Reasonable Net Worth for Exotic

Post by ssquared87 » Mon Mar 19, 2018 9:03 am

ChinchillaWhiplash wrote:
Sun Mar 18, 2018 10:07 pm
How about a Cayman GT4? Nice car for the money with phenomenal performance.
This...only challenge will be finding one with the options you want at a reasonable price...demand is high supply is low and sellers are squeezing every penny they can out of these

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Re: Paging BH Gearheads: Reasonable Net Worth for Exotic

Post by BJJ nerd » Mon Mar 19, 2018 9:11 am

ssquared87 wrote:
Sun Mar 18, 2018 9:43 pm
Even if I had 10M I wouldn’t get one as a daily driver. Pulling up to dinner in a 488 is idiotic and arrogant. If I were serious about Motorsport and actually went to the track a few times a month I would consider one as a track car which is what it’s made for.

On public roads it’s more fun driving something slower and taking advantage of a greater percentage of its potential.

The most fun I’ve had on public roads has been with a Subaru BRZ because I don’t have to worry about getting arrested. My E36 M3 is fun too.

I’ve driven many far more powerful cars on track and on the road, but swear by the saying “More fun to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow”

As much as I love driving on the track and fast cars, my daily driver is a Bmw 530i M-sport. Great handling sufficient power especially given my traffic filled commute, and I don’t feel like I’m holding back all the time so my driving is more relaxed.
Lol if I was serious about Motorsport, I would buy an actual race car for the track. Road cars, no matter how track focused, are full of compromises for going fast.

It's interesting you bring up BRZ, I've owned one as a daily for 3 years, before getting my 340i. I probably had ~ 20 track days on that thing. The best thing about it was the chassis, great steering, and light weight. It was a dog in a straightline, with a very uninspiring engine note and low limits. The last piece made it fun on back roads, but boring and underwhelming on the track. It was much better suited for autocross.

I found my Z to be much more enjoyable on the street and on the track. Fantastic engine note (7.0 L cammed v8), race suspension, low and wide stance, etc make it a much more special experience no matter how fast you're going. It drips with testosterone just sitting at a red light. WOT pulls through the first 3 gears (can still talk yourself out of jail time) in a 570whp rwd 6spd car that weighs 3,000 lbs need to be experienced to be appreciated. Don't think I need to elaborate on why a car like this is also a lot more fun (for intermediate/advanced drivers) on the track. :thumbsup

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Re: Paging BH Gearheads: Reasonable Net Worth for Exotic

Post by investingdad » Mon Mar 19, 2018 9:12 am

I missed the OPs numbers upon first read. I see them now.

But it appears my wife and I together earn what he is earning (250k to 300k) and our net is higher (he mentioned 1.5 million in retirement). We also have two kids and live on about 120k a year. So very similar to him, but we are mid 40s.

It took a year and a half to get her onboard when I decided to purchase a 5k pinball machine.

I'm trying to imagine what that would look like with the car prices that are getting tossed around here.

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Re: Paging BH Gearheads: Reasonable Net Worth for Exotic

Post by ssquared87 » Mon Mar 19, 2018 9:19 am

BJJ nerd wrote:
Mon Mar 19, 2018 9:11 am
ssquared87 wrote:
Sun Mar 18, 2018 9:43 pm
Even if I had 10M I wouldn’t get one as a daily driver. Pulling up to dinner in a 488 is idiotic and arrogant. If I were serious about Motorsport and actually went to the track a few times a month I would consider one as a track car which is what it’s made for.

On public roads it’s more fun driving something slower and taking advantage of a greater percentage of its potential.

The most fun I’ve had on public roads has been with a Subaru BRZ because I don’t have to worry about getting arrested. My E36 M3 is fun too.

I’ve driven many far more powerful cars on track and on the road, but swear by the saying “More fun to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow”

As much as I love driving on the track and fast cars, my daily driver is a Bmw 530i M-sport. Great handling sufficient power especially given my traffic filled commute, and I don’t feel like I’m holding back all the time so my driving is more relaxed.
Lol if I was serious about Motorsport, I would buy an actual race car for the track. Road cars, no matter how track focused, are full of compromises for going fast.

It's interesting you bring up BRZ, I've owned one as a daily for 3 years, before getting my 340i. I probably had ~ 20 track days on that thing. The best thing about it was the chassis, great steering, and light weight. It was a dog in a straightline, with a very uninspiring engine note and low limits. The last piece made it fun on back roads, but boring and underwhelming on the track. It was much better suited for autocross.

I found my Z to be much more enjoyable on the street and on the track. Fantastic engine note (7.0 L cammed v8), race suspension, low and wide stance, etc make it a much more special experience no matter how fast you're going. It drips with testosterone just sitting at a red light. WOT pulls through the first 3 gears (can still talk yourself out of jail time) in a 570whp rwd 6spd car that weighs 3,000 lbs need to be experienced to be appreciated. Don't think I need to elaborate on why a car like this is also a lot more fun (for intermediate/advanced drivers) on the track. :thumbsup
Absolutely agreed...BRZ would not be my first choice in track car unless my goal was to improve my strategy. Having a momentum car to keep you honest with picking lines is so valuable.

Love the BRZ as a daily though, especially driving through the canyons outside of LA...engine does sound like a bag of marbles though.

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Re: Paging BH Gearheads: Reasonable Net Worth for Exotic

Post by Tal- » Mon Mar 19, 2018 9:21 am

This is hard to answer because a 250K purchase with many more K in annual obligations is a big decision that will impact all other parts of your financial life - and we only have a glimpse into yours. But, here are a few considerations:

1: I strongly encourage you to treat the purchase as having zero resale value. I know that this is not true, but it lets you frame the discussion in the right way. My personal view is to avoid the'if you buy X exotic, you can resale for Y...' mindset.
2: What about other purchases or luxuries? If you're living a modest 80K lifestyle, and will continue to do so, that's one thing. If this is one of three luxuries that you have, that's another.
3: Never - ever - make this purchase without your wife being 100% on board.
4: Understand how much longer you will need to work if you make this purchase. I don't know the exact number, but I'm guessing that if you make this purchase, you will need to work a full 1-3 years longer. I know that retirement is not a defined thing for you yet, but an additional 1-3 years of work, when you want to be retired, is a real expense.

With that said, if you're in your early 30's with 1.7M in assets, and are on track to surpass all of your financial goals, I'd consider something like this:

At every $5M benchmark, you get to spend 2.5% of your net worth on a car. However, you must be: 100% debt free save a mortgage (both before and after the purchase), be on track to hit all of your financial goals, and have saved 40% of your income in each of the last 2 years.

I would not waffle on the $5M number or other criteria, but could go up slightly on the %. But, 5% (250K) is probably too high for me - even at $5M.

Either way, I really applaud you for two big things. First and obviously, you're doing great financially. Second, and more importantly, you're doing a great job of making a crazy purchase in the most responsible manner possible! So, determine what criteria you will use, and then write them down, and work to get there over several years. When you do, enjoy yourself.

Happy Hunting!
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Re: Paging BH Gearheads: Reasonable Net Worth for Exotic

Post by alfaspider » Mon Mar 19, 2018 10:18 am

Purchase price is just part of the ownership cost of the car, so part of the analysis is what you are buying and how you will be driving it.

If you buy a brand new Ferrari Portofino for $200k, you can be assured of staggering depreciation in the first few years- plus very high insurance and maintenance costs. If you buy a blue chip classic with a relatively common drive train (like an American muscle car) in mint condition for $200k and don't drive it much, total cost of ownership is likely much less.

It's hard to say what is "reasonable" when you get into these conversations. You've clearly passed the minimum threshold in the sense you do have the funds. It's really all about priorities and goals- which is something only you can decide.

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Re: Paging BH Gearheads: Reasonable Net Worth for Exotic

Post by GmanJeff » Mon Mar 19, 2018 10:26 am

I have always enjoyed sporty cars, drove a government 911 for a while at work, and thought an exotic would be great to have. Paradoxically, and to my surprise, now that I am in a position to buy an exotic car financially, I find I really don't want one. Well, I do want one still, but the practical realities involved once the possibility really exists have turned me away from such a purchase. As others have noted, you really do kill the value of the asset with each mile you put on, so driving it daily or even with any frequency is quite costly, beyond the purchase price and maintenance costs. It's not possible to find high performance all-season tires to fit most exotics, so they are warm weather-only cars, further limiting how often you can use them if you live where temps seasonally drop into the lower 40s or below, where summer tires become dangerous. Or, you can buy snow tires, but you have to change them back to summer tires and vice versa twice each year. I also realized I'd be afraid to park one in most places, for fear of it getting accidentally dinged or deliberately scratched.

Consequently, I have shifted my thinking more to the sub-exotic high performance category - something zoomier than most mass market cars, but without the same drawbacks as true exotics. Examples would include the new BMW M5, or perhaps a Porsche Macan Turbo with the performance package.

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Re: Paging BH Gearheads: Reasonable Net Worth for Exotic

Post by staythecourse » Mon Mar 19, 2018 10:36 am

hicabob wrote:
Fri Mar 16, 2018 10:05 pm
livesoft's, paraphrased as "spend what your portfolio makes or loses in a good/bad day" algorithm works for me.

This I agree with. It is a great rule of thumb.

Good luck.
"The stock market [fluctuation], therefore, is noise. A giant distraction from the business of investing.” | -Jack Bogle

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randomizer
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Re: Paging BH Gearheads: Reasonable Net Worth for Exotic

Post by randomizer » Mon Mar 19, 2018 10:40 am

Just rent one and get it out of your system.
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Re: Paging BH Gearheads: Reasonable Net Worth for Exotic

Post by Drew777 » Mon Mar 19, 2018 10:42 am

Check out Exotic Car Hacks. It is 100% legit. The Facebook group is full of people driving and flipping exotics for a profit or breakeven. I've seen some cases where someone made $20k off of one flip. The key is just waiting it out until you can find one at a low enough price. It's well worth the money for the course and access to the FB group. I couldn't imagine just trying to learn it all on your own. You can literally drive an exotic for free, even after accounting for all expenses involved.

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Re: Paging BH Gearheads: Reasonable Net Worth for Exotic

Post by midareff » Mon Mar 19, 2018 10:50 am

For my 70th birthday I ordered a car I have wanted for many years. It represents about 5% of my net worth. The time for me to enjoy it is now, not a decade from now. With a cola'd pension from a well funded state and SS paying the bills, everything else is discretionary at this point in life.

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Re: Paging BH Gearheads: Reasonable Net Worth for Exotic

Post by NoGambleNoFuture » Mon Mar 19, 2018 11:00 am

midareff wrote:
Mon Mar 19, 2018 10:50 am
For my 70th birthday I ordered a car I have wanted for many years. It represents about 5% of my net worth. The time for me to enjoy it is now, not a decade from now. With a cola'd pension from a well funded state and SS paying the bills, everything else is discretionary at this point in life.
What'd we go with?!?! :sharebeer

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Re: Paging BH Gearheads: Reasonable Net Worth for Exotic

Post by rockonhumblepie » Mon Mar 19, 2018 11:15 am

I'm with Sandtrap on this. Bang for the buck,cost of ownership and thrill per mile is very high with 64'-72' American muscle car.

I had a 70' Mustang Boss 302 for years and was a great machine.Car show,cruisin',road trip, reliable and I sold it for x2 what I paid for it.

Of course I wish I had keep it...can't go wrong with Camaro,Goat(GTO),Chevelle,Challenger,Firebird,Falcon,Fairlane or Mustang.

911 and Vette are great but over my budget. Alittle to exotic for this farmer.

By the way 68',69' and 70' Camaro Z28 had a 302 engine for Trans-Am racing. 8-) rockon and turn it up with a V-8

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Re: Paging BH Gearheads: Reasonable Net Worth for Exotic

Post by alfaspider » Mon Mar 19, 2018 11:27 am

rockonhumblepie wrote:
Mon Mar 19, 2018 11:15 am
I'm with Sandtrap on this. Bang for the buck,cost of ownership and thrill per mile is very high with 64'-72' American muscle car.

I had a 70' Mustang Boss 302 for years and was a great machine.Car show,cruisin',road trip, reliable and I sold it for x2 what I paid for it.

Of course I wish I had keep it...can't go wrong with Camaro,Goat(GTO),Chevelle,Challenger,Firebird,Falcon,Fairlane or Mustang.

911 and Vette are great but over my budget. Alittle to exotic for this farmer.

By the way 68',69' and 70' Camaro Z28 had a 302 engine for Trans-Am racing. 8-) rockon and turn it up with a V-8
I think this is a "different strokes for different folks" sort of thing. Some people love the rumble and power of a classic muscle car, others can't stand the poor braking and handling (compared to European sports cars of the same era). To some extent, what makes sense for you is your use case. If it's something to take to shows and cruise around, I think American muscle makes a lot of sense. But at least in stock form, they aren't the best option for someone who wants to drive on winding back roads or take it to the track. The aesthetic component is a very personal factor.

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Re: Paging BH Gearheads: Reasonable Net Worth for Exotic

Post by BJJ nerd » Mon Mar 19, 2018 11:28 am

bgf wrote:
Mon Mar 19, 2018 8:45 am
sambb wrote:
Sat Mar 17, 2018 6:59 am
Have owned many high end brands and exotics.
My advice is the following:
Buy a ~100k preowned high end porsche 911, drive it for a year or two. See if you can stomach the issues with regards to parking, insurance, and maintenance. If you can, then consider an exotic for weekend fun. You wont lose much on the 911.
I would NOT go from a toyota to a lambo without an intermediate step for a few years.
while i cannot say i have personal experience with a 911/lambo, this is the same rationale i used when purchasing my first motorcycle. apart from not wanting to kill myself within 300m of the parking lot, i also didn't want to make too big of a jump financially without ever having lived with one previously. i was happy that i did because i realized that it was just a phase and not a true lifelong passion. sold the bike a few years ago for around what i paid. still have the gear though...
With bikes, it's all about your right hand and how crazy you want to get (your self-control). Size of the bike is nothing but an artificial governor to minimize the damage once you've lost control / got in over your head. I've clocked my (modded) bike at 157 in the quarter.. leagues above the 600cc crop of bikes. Margin for error with that level of acceleration is razor-thin...BUT you don't have to go that fast!

I started riding at 19 on a 750cc ninja. Moved up to liter bikes in my early 20s and haven't looked back.

To bring this full circle, I'd like to avoid settling for a car that does not check all the boxes. I'd much rather hold off, work harder and longer and get what I'm truly after.

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Re: Paging BH Gearheads: Reasonable Net Worth for Exotic

Post by stoptothink » Mon Mar 19, 2018 11:29 am

rockonhumblepie wrote:
Mon Mar 19, 2018 11:15 am
I'm with Sandtrap on this. Bang for the buck,cost of ownership and thrill per mile is very high with 64'-72' American muscle car.

I had a 70' Mustang Boss 302 for years and was a great machine.Car show,cruisin',road trip, reliable and I sold it for x2 what I paid for it.

Of course I wish I had keep it...can't go wrong with Camaro,Goat(GTO),Chevelle,Challenger,Firebird,Falcon,Fairlane or Mustang.

911 and Vette are great but over my budget. Alittle to exotic for this farmer.

By the way 68',69' and 70' Camaro Z28 had a 302 engine for Trans-Am racing. 8-) rockon and turn it up with a V-8
Based upon the OP's current garage, which contains a race-prepped corvette, one of the fastest production superbikes, and a heavily modded daily driver, I am thinking that a muscle car is not going to scratch that adrenaline itch. I love me some muscle cars, but a modern day Honda Accord will outperform most of them in almost every performance metric.

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Re: Paging BH Gearheads: Reasonable Net Worth for Exotic

Post by SeaToTheBay » Mon Mar 19, 2018 11:50 am

I'm about your age, similar income (a bit less individually, a bit more combined), no kids yet (plan on one in next 1-2yrs), lower NW but at a great level saving at a very good clip. Also addicted to cars since I was a fetus.

A few months ago my wife proposed that I start a "dream car fund" where a portion of my raises and bonuses go into an account that I invest, with the goal of getting something awesome (for me, ~$100k) in 5 years. At that point, I am guessing our NW will be ~$3M.

I think you can afford it, as you have a great income and your costs are lower + NW is higher than ours (we live in the Bay Area).

However: I would personally much rather go with a used car that is not likely to depreciate much. This is pretty much a requirement for my situation. I made money on my last two cars even after several years of ownership and daily driving (2001 BMW M5, 2002 Honda S2000) and that is a big reason I'm in good shape now. If I had bought brand new cars every few years I'd have a lot less "car equity" to build off of. I can somewhat justify a $100k purchase of an F430, R8 V10 manual, or 997/991.1 GT3 in a few years because they are very unlikely to depreciate much more. A brand new $250-300k McLaren might depreciate 6 figures in the time you own it. I personally couldn't live with that, on top of all the other exotic car expenses.

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Re: Paging BH Gearheads: Reasonable Net Worth for Exotic

Post by BJJ nerd » Mon Mar 19, 2018 12:17 pm

Tal- wrote:
Mon Mar 19, 2018 9:21 am
This is hard to answer because a 250K purchase with many more K in annual obligations is a big decision that will impact all other parts of your financial life - and we only have a glimpse into yours. But, here are a few considerations:

1: I strongly encourage you to treat the purchase as having zero resale value. I know that this is not true, but it lets you frame the discussion in the right way. My personal view is to avoid the'if you buy X exotic, you can resale for Y...' mindset.
2: What about other purchases or luxuries? If you're living a modest 80K lifestyle, and will continue to do so, that's one thing. If this is one of three luxuries that you have, that's another.
3: Never - ever - make this purchase without your wife being 100% on board.
4: Understand how much longer you will need to work if you make this purchase. I don't know the exact number, but I'm guessing that if you make this purchase, you will need to work a full 1-3 years longer. I know that retirement is not a defined thing for you yet, but an additional 1-3 years of work, when you want to be retired, is a real expense.

With that said, if you're in your early 30's with 1.7M in assets, and are on track to surpass all of your financial goals, I'd consider something like this:

At every $5M benchmark, you get to spend 2.5% of your net worth on a car. However, you must be: 100% debt free save a mortgage (both before and after the purchase), be on track to hit all of your financial goals, and have saved 40% of your income in each of the last 2 years.

I would not waffle on the $5M number or other criteria, but could go up slightly on the %. But, 5% (250K) is probably too high for me - even at $5M.

Either way, I really applaud you for two big things. First and obviously, you're doing great financially. Second, and more importantly, you're doing a great job of making a crazy purchase in the most responsible manner possible! So, determine what criteria you will use, and then write them down, and work to get there over several years. When you do, enjoy yourself.

Happy Hunting!
Thanks for great feedback; you mentioned a few things and ideas I had not thought of, which I'll need to mull over. Posts like this, and others, is why I joined this forum. :sharebeer

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Re: Paging BH Gearheads: Reasonable Net Worth for Exotic

Post by bgf » Mon Mar 19, 2018 12:52 pm

BJJ nerd wrote:
Mon Mar 19, 2018 11:28 am
bgf wrote:
Mon Mar 19, 2018 8:45 am
sambb wrote:
Sat Mar 17, 2018 6:59 am
Have owned many high end brands and exotics.
My advice is the following:
Buy a ~100k preowned high end porsche 911, drive it for a year or two. See if you can stomach the issues with regards to parking, insurance, and maintenance. If you can, then consider an exotic for weekend fun. You wont lose much on the 911.
I would NOT go from a toyota to a lambo without an intermediate step for a few years.
while i cannot say i have personal experience with a 911/lambo, this is the same rationale i used when purchasing my first motorcycle. apart from not wanting to kill myself within 300m of the parking lot, i also didn't want to make too big of a jump financially without ever having lived with one previously. i was happy that i did because i realized that it was just a phase and not a true lifelong passion. sold the bike a few years ago for around what i paid. still have the gear though...
With bikes, it's all about your right hand and how crazy you want to get (your self-control). Size of the bike is nothing but an artificial governor to minimize the damage once you've lost control / got in over your head. I've clocked my (modded) bike at 157 in the quarter.. leagues above the 600cc crop of bikes. Margin for error with that level of acceleration is razor-thin...BUT you don't have to go that fast!

I started riding at 19 on a 750cc ninja. Moved up to liter bikes in my early 20s and haven't looked back.

To bring this full circle, I'd like to avoid settling for a car that does not check all the boxes. I'd much rather hold off, work harder and longer and get what I'm truly after.
i scared the hell out of myself a couple times on my gs500e, not due to speed but to miscalculating corner and poor instincts with braking/acceleration. i probably would have wrecked any size gixxer in that situation as my mistakes would have been magnified.

so what do you currently have then? all vehicles combined? might also help your original question.
“TE OCCIDERE POSSUNT SED TE EDERE NON POSSUNT NEFAS EST"

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Re: Paging BH Gearheads: Reasonable Net Worth for Exotic

Post by Glockenspiel » Mon Mar 19, 2018 1:00 pm

I have a difficult time spending more than 5% of net worth on a vehicle. I would need at least $5- million to even think about what you're considering. Or if you make more than $2 million/year, then I'd consider it.

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Re: Paging BH Gearheads: Reasonable Net Worth for Exotic

Post by rockonhumblepie » Mon Mar 19, 2018 1:04 pm

3 generations of GT40? Give my regards to your friend. The Better :idea:

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Re: Paging BH Gearheads: Reasonable Net Worth for Exotic

Post by dsmclone » Mon Mar 19, 2018 1:08 pm

snackdog wrote:
Sat Mar 17, 2018 1:25 pm
My rule of thumb on total invested in cars is less than 5% of net worth (for car freaks; 1-2% for non-car freaks). If you have a million dollars that gives you $50k to play with.
1-2% is very conservative. With a million dollar net worth, a 2 car family would be able to have 2 10k cars.

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Re: Paging BH Gearheads: Reasonable Net Worth for Exotic

Post by bgf » Mon Mar 19, 2018 1:35 pm

dsmclone wrote:
Mon Mar 19, 2018 1:08 pm
snackdog wrote:
Sat Mar 17, 2018 1:25 pm
My rule of thumb on total invested in cars is less than 5% of net worth (for car freaks; 1-2% for non-car freaks). If you have a million dollars that gives you $50k to play with.
1-2% is very conservative. With a million dollar net worth, a 2 car family would be able to have 2 10k cars.
yea, not even just very conservative. i would say downright inapplicable at the bottom ranges. two used last gen toyota camrys for a working couple with kids would require a net worth over one million. just silly really.
“TE OCCIDERE POSSUNT SED TE EDERE NON POSSUNT NEFAS EST"

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Re: Paging BH Gearheads: Reasonable Net Worth for Exotic

Post by BJJ nerd » Mon Mar 19, 2018 2:04 pm

bgf wrote:
Mon Mar 19, 2018 12:52 pm
BJJ nerd wrote:
Mon Mar 19, 2018 11:28 am
bgf wrote:
Mon Mar 19, 2018 8:45 am
sambb wrote:
Sat Mar 17, 2018 6:59 am
Have owned many high end brands and exotics.
My advice is the following:
Buy a ~100k preowned high end porsche 911, drive it for a year or two. See if you can stomach the issues with regards to parking, insurance, and maintenance. If you can, then consider an exotic for weekend fun. You wont lose much on the 911.
I would NOT go from a toyota to a lambo without an intermediate step for a few years.
while i cannot say i have personal experience with a 911/lambo, this is the same rationale i used when purchasing my first motorcycle. apart from not wanting to kill myself within 300m of the parking lot, i also didn't want to make too big of a jump financially without ever having lived with one previously. i was happy that i did because i realized that it was just a phase and not a true lifelong passion. sold the bike a few years ago for around what i paid. still have the gear though...
With bikes, it's all about your right hand and how crazy you want to get (your self-control). Size of the bike is nothing but an artificial governor to minimize the damage once you've lost control / got in over your head. I've clocked my (modded) bike at 157 in the quarter.. leagues above the 600cc crop of bikes. Margin for error with that level of acceleration is razor-thin...BUT you don't have to go that fast!

I started riding at 19 on a 750cc ninja. Moved up to liter bikes in my early 20s and haven't looked back.

To bring this full circle, I'd like to avoid settling for a car that does not check all the boxes. I'd much rather hold off, work harder and longer and get what I'm truly after.
i scared the hell out of myself a couple times on my gs500e, not due to speed but to miscalculating corner and poor instincts with braking/acceleration. i probably would have wrecked any size gixxer in that situation as my mistakes would have been magnified.

so what do you currently have then? all vehicles combined? might also help your original question.
Fair point, I was ultra cautious with my first bike, and rode it like a grandma the first year or so, this is after taking a rider satefy course in college. Don't think I went WOT until my second year, as anything over 50% throttle terrified me.

Current stable consists of B58 340i, C6Z06, Gen 4 ZX10R, and Camry. You can guess which one is wife's car. I've tried to convince her to upgrade, but for now will take no for an answer.

To address a few points brought up by other posters, if I ever got an exotic it would absolutely be used, likely 2-3yrs old with <10k miles, to be used on weekends etc. No way in hell I'm daily driving it or tracking it - unless I win powerball, which would be unlikely since I don't play.

The problem with fast sedans (M5s, E63s, etc) is that they greatly diminish the sense of speed and excitement because they're so insulated from the environment.

Doing 50 in the Z at high rpms feels like I'm going 70-80mph due to engine roar, being low to the ground, road feel, lack of insulation, etc. Where as in the bimmer, I've caught myself doing 90 on the freeway when it feels like you're just cruising along. I've tried to remedy this by dropping in a full exhaust including catless downpipes. She sounds much more proper now. :happy

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Re: Paging BH Gearheads: Reasonable Net Worth for Exotic

Post by randomguy » Mon Mar 19, 2018 2:36 pm

BJJ nerd wrote:
Sat Mar 17, 2018 1:28 pm


+1. You and I have very similar approaches to spending. There are very few material things that interest me outside of cars. I'm very fortunate to have a wife that shares that mindset.

I tend to focus my energy on activities vs material possessions. Being an avid martial artist most of my life, my current goal is to earn a black belt in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu before I turn 40, and continue to compete in the masters division as I get older. My oldest is itching to start classes next year.

It's funny how insecure some people are to feel the need to 'live up' to a certain standard that would need to come with owning an exotic.

Agreed that 10% would be stretching it. I think I could get comfortable with 5% or 4-5m in earning assets. Don't think I'll pull the trigger until I get to that level. But I always like to plan things out so I have something to shoot for.

I think percentage of network is the wrong way to look at large discretionary spending. Either you can afford the absolute amount or you can't. If I have 3 million and only need 2.5m (i.e. I am fine living on 100k/year), I have 500k to spend on whatever makes me happy. Doesn't matter what percent it is. If I need 200k to live on the fact that I have 4 million doesn't mean I can afford a 250k car.

Obviously with all discretionary spending you have to decide how happy it will make you. And you have to figure out the costs. That sticker price is very little to do with what your TCO will be. Depending on what you are a looking at and expected driving patterns, you can be looking at an asset that appreciates (before maintence and like) over your ownership period. Or you might think about it more and realize that renting one for 6 days/year is all you really need.

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Re: Paging BH Gearheads: Reasonable Net Worth for Exotic

Post by bgf » Mon Mar 19, 2018 3:17 pm

BJJ nerd wrote:
Mon Mar 19, 2018 2:04 pm
Current stable consists of B58 340i, C6Z06, Gen 4 ZX10R, and Camry. You can guess which one is wife's car. I've tried to convince her to upgrade, but for now will take no for an answer.

To address a few points brought up by other posters, if I ever got an exotic it would absolutely be used, likely 2-3yrs old with <10k miles, to be used on weekends etc. No way in hell I'm daily driving it or tracking it - unless I win powerball, which would be unlikely since I don't play.
so two questions. 1) would you sell the Z06 when you got the exotic? 2) considering the level of performance of the Z06 and you intended use for it, no track, not daily driving, and purchasing used, sounds like another consideration would be which exotic would be best value over your intended length of ownership? i have no idea about that, but given your intended use, it sounds like the most time should be spent figuring out depreciation curves etc. if that is the case, you might be able to find an exotic that holds it value quite well over a one or two year period? i have no idea as ive never been remotely close to that market.
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Re: Paging BH Gearheads: Reasonable Net Worth for Exotic

Post by alfaspider » Mon Mar 19, 2018 3:23 pm

BJJ nerd wrote:
Mon Mar 19, 2018 2:04 pm


To address a few points brought up by other posters, if I ever got an exotic it would absolutely be used, likely 2-3yrs old with <10k miles, to be used on weekends etc. No way in hell I'm daily driving it or tracking it - unless I win powerball, which would be unlikely since I don't play.

I suppose to each their own, but to me owning an exotic and not ever taking it to the track would be like marrying a supermodel and taking a vow of celibacy.

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Re: Paging BH Gearheads: Reasonable Net Worth for Exotic

Post by 10YearPlan » Mon Mar 19, 2018 3:30 pm

Not a car person myself, but I like the Livesoft Rule for Extravagant Purchases heuristic. It makes good sense to me as a way to measure the true impact to one's financial situation.

That said, I think it is important, in my opinion, to take into consideration the optics of such extravagant purchases, whether they're in the form of cars, watches, jewelry, or anything other people in your orbit would notice.

One optic to consider is that of your house. I always chuckle inwardly when I see a super expensive sports car outside of a house that could use some tlc. It's judgy of me, I know, but I cannot help it. Or when one spouse has a spendy car and the other has a hoopty. Another optic to consider is the people you work with/for and what they will say if you were to roll up in the car at work. Or how it looks compared to the rest of your life/style. None of these are reasons NOT to purchase, mind you, but just some food for thought. People can/will have thoughts about it, so might as well get comfortable with that in advance.

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Re: Paging BH Gearheads: Reasonable Net Worth for Exotic

Post by SeaToTheBay » Mon Mar 19, 2018 4:18 pm

10YearPlan wrote:
Mon Mar 19, 2018 3:30 pm
Not a car person myself, but I like the Livesoft Rule for Extravagant Purchases heuristic. It makes good sense to me as a way to measure the true impact to one's financial situation.

That said, I think it is important, in my opinion, to take into consideration the optics of such extravagant purchases, whether they're in the form of cars, watches, jewelry, or anything other people in your orbit would notice.

One optic to consider is that of your house. I always chuckle inwardly when I see a super expensive sports car outside of a house that could use some tlc. It's judgy of me, I know, but I cannot help it. Or when one spouse has a spendy car and the other has a hoopty. Another optic to consider is the people you work with/for and what they will say if you were to roll up in the car at work. Or how it looks compared to the rest of your life/style. None of these are reasons NOT to purchase, mind you, but just some food for thought. People can/will have thoughts about it, so might as well get comfortable with that in advance.
While I generally don't care that much about what random people may think (I would like my car just as much if it had a Hyundai badge instead of a BMW one), this is one thing that makes me hesitate in buying my dream car. People will look at a $20k used Porsche Boxster and think/say, "Oooh he drives a Porsche! Must be rich/paid too much/reckless with money." Meanwhile a co-worker will show up in a new loaded F-150 pickup that cost $60k and will depreciate more than the Porsche's value in 2-3 years, and no one will bat an eye. It's frustrating.

I feel like if I do buy a used Ferrari in a few years, I will have to keep it a secret from all but my very closest friends/family (certainly no co-workers or Facebook posts). People don't stop to consider people's passions in life (many car enthusiasts don't spend much on anything else) or that certain expensive cars can actually be decently responsible financial decisions (the case of say a Porsche 911 GT3 retaining virtually all of its value or even appreciating).

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Re: Paging BH Gearheads: Reasonable Net Worth for Exotic

Post by Hyperborea » Mon Mar 19, 2018 5:10 pm

BJJ nerd wrote:
Mon Mar 19, 2018 2:04 pm
The problem with fast sedans (M5s, E63s, etc) is that they greatly diminish the sense of speed and excitement because they're so insulated from the environment.

Doing 50 in the Z at high rpms feels like I'm going 70-80mph due to engine roar, being low to the ground, road feel, lack of insulation, etc. Where as in the bimmer, I've caught myself doing 90 on the freeway when it feels like you're just cruising along. I've tried to remedy this by dropping in a full exhaust including catless downpipes. She sounds much more proper now. :happy
What you are talking about tells me that you don't really want a supercar because you'll never get the speeds to make it feel like that on the street without being in danger of going to jail on a regular basis. What you want is a simple, maybe a bit more "primitive", great handling car that is like a go-cart. A couple that spring to mind are the Lotus Elise, Caterham Super 7, Ariel Atom, or even a hopped up Miata.

As I mentioned before, see if there's an exotic car club with rentals near you and take a bunch of different cars for a spin. You will get a taste of what it's like to drive some of them and see if that's what you really want. You might also find that doing a number of rental days over the year is all you need for your exotic car fix or that it's not what you want after all. On the two days I've been on outings with Club Sportiva, I found that at legal or close-to-legal speeds that all of the exotics I drove had that same feeling of not going so fast as you really were. The only one that didn't have that feel was the not so exotic Elise.
"Plans are worthless, but planning is everything." - Dwight D. Eisenhower

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Re: Paging BH Gearheads: Reasonable Net Worth for Exotic

Post by BJJ nerd » Mon Mar 19, 2018 6:47 pm

10YearPlan wrote:
Mon Mar 19, 2018 3:30 pm
Not a car person myself, but I like the Livesoft Rule for Extravagant Purchases heuristic. It makes good sense to me as a way to measure the true impact to one's financial situation.

That said, I think it is important, in my opinion, to take into consideration the optics of such extravagant purchases, whether they're in the form of cars, watches, jewelry, or anything other people in your orbit would notice.

One optic to consider is that of your house. I always chuckle inwardly when I see a super expensive sports car outside of a house that could use some tlc. It's judgy of me, I know, but I cannot help it. Or when one spouse has a spendy car and the other has a hoopty. Another optic to consider is the people you work with/for and what they will say if you were to roll up in the car at work. Or how it looks compared to the rest of your life/style. None of these are reasons NOT to purchase, mind you, but just some food for thought. People can/will have thoughts about it, so might as well get comfortable with that in advance.
I really could not care less about what other people think about my passions/interests/possessions and how I live my life (unless it's close family/loved ones). Life is too short for that nonsense. I'm an immigrant, and have dealt with plenty of stereotypes and prejustices over the years. I do agree that it's something to consider, but the weight assigned to it would be minimal in my book.

These decisions are highly personal. My boss makes over 1m a year, and drives a car with MSRP of 40k, so there is that. Come to think of it, he may be on this board! He likely would not care, as I'm paid for the value I generate, which in many ways is set my the market/industry.

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Re: Paging BH Gearheads: Reasonable Net Worth for Exotic

Post by dknightd » Mon Mar 19, 2018 7:07 pm

The reality is, it is up to you.
I can't imagine paying $250k for a car.
What did you have in mind?

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Re: Paging BH Gearheads: Reasonable Net Worth for Exotic

Post by tmcc » Mon Mar 19, 2018 7:26 pm

if you're accumulating money at the rate the claim and you work in finance, why did you make this thread

lol

Independent George
Posts: 280
Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2016 12:13 pm

Re: Paging BH Gearheads: Reasonable Net Worth for Exotic

Post by Independent George » Mon Mar 19, 2018 8:55 pm

Everybody has things they like to spend on. For some, it's travel; others, fine dining. For you, it's cars. It's ok to spend money you can afford to spend, even if it's frivolous, and it's never ok to spend money you can't afford to spend, even on something serious (like a house).

You need to treat the car like any other expenditure: get the true price of the car, including taxes, insurance, maintenance, fuel, depreciation, etc. You work in finance, so do a true cost accounting of owning the car over its expected life. Don't massage the numbers to fit what you want - if necessary, get a friend to run the numbers for you. This is the true cost of owning the car.

Once you have that number, only you can decide it if you can afford that hit against your current assets (if you're paying cash) or the monthly upkeep (including depreciation) if you're making payments.

BJJ nerd
Posts: 39
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2018 2:20 pm

Re: Paging BH Gearheads: Reasonable Net Worth for Exotic

Post by BJJ nerd » Mon Mar 19, 2018 9:10 pm

Hyperborea wrote:
Mon Mar 19, 2018 5:10 pm
BJJ nerd wrote:
Mon Mar 19, 2018 2:04 pm
The problem with fast sedans (M5s, E63s, etc) is that they greatly diminish the sense of speed and excitement because they're so insulated from the environment.

Doing 50 in the Z at high rpms feels like I'm going 70-80mph due to engine roar, being low to the ground, road feel, lack of insulation, etc. Where as in the bimmer, I've caught myself doing 90 on the freeway when it feels like you're just cruising along. I've tried to remedy this by dropping in a full exhaust including catless downpipes. She sounds much more proper now. :happy
What you are talking about tells me that you don't really want a supercar because you'll never get the speeds to make it feel like that on the street without being in danger of going to jail on a regular basis. What you want is a simple, maybe a bit more "primitive", great handling car that is like a go-cart. A couple that spring to mind are the Lotus Elise, Caterham Super 7, Ariel Atom, or even a hopped up Miata.

As I mentioned before, see if there's an exotic car club with rentals near you and take a bunch of different cars for a spin. You will get a taste of what it's like to drive some of them and see if that's what you really want. You might also find that doing a number of rental days over the year is all you need for your exotic car fix or that it's not what you want after all. On the two days I've been on outings with Club Sportiva, I found that at legal or close-to-legal speeds that all of the exotics I drove had that same feeling of not going so fast as you really were. The only one that didn't have that feel was the not so exotic Elise.
Ha, maybe you're right and it's just the idea of an exotic that I lust after. I will say that I love beautiful, flashy, unique cars... this is a big factor in the attraction.

To me, open-wheel and track cars present too many compromises. Very few are street legal. Then you'd need to factor in a truck and trailer set up... a bit too much hassle for my liking.

Besides, I'm not looking to part ways with the Z. It's taken some time but is now set up perfectly for the track, and I enjoy driving it to work when the weather is nice.

Exotic car club membership would have definitely been my first choice - there is nothing close to where I live.

The more I think about it, the more I keep coming back to GT3/RS. Minimal/low depreciation curve is certainly a huge benefit.

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