My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

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smitcat
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by smitcat » Thu Sep 13, 2018 11:53 am

CULater wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 8:31 pm
It has been reported for the 2.4 engine as well, as here (scroll down to #13):

https://www.crvownersclub.com/forums/11 ... ase-2.html

I have no experience or first-hand knowledge of oil dilution problems with this engine. Far less has appeared than for the 1.5T engine. It does have direct fuel injection, which most other small 4-cyl engines also have these days, and my oil analysis report stated that "High fuel dilution can be common in direct injected engines." The extent of this problem varies across models and manufacturers. If I had to guess, based on the sketchy information I've seen, I'd say the 2.4 might well have the problem but it is likely to be less severe than in the 1.5T engine which uses turbocharging. My understanding is that the engine in the RAV4 uses both port and direct injection, relying on port injection for normal driving. Port injection is not known to have a serious fuel dilution problem and it also keeps the valves from carboning up, which can be another problem with direct injection. Me -- I'd buy the Toyota and avoid both direct injection and turbo. The 2019 is due out in November - December and it looks every bit as good as the CRV on paper.
FWIW - The toyota is also a direct injection engine, which is not a signal for future problems. I have had a bunch of cars/trucks with direct injection and they have had no symtoms of fuel dilution.
These problems follow specific engine builds and not general engine designs.

Broken Man 1999
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by Broken Man 1999 » Thu Sep 13, 2018 12:16 pm

Ouch!

Reading this thread sure doesn't give anyone a warm and fuzzy feeling about Honda products!

DD has a 2018 Acura MDX that is having the transmission replaced at the moment. This was after daughter, and DW noticed some issues with shifting. What kinda alarms me is the Honda dealership seemed to go very quickly fixing by replacing the transmission. Just took a few days. Hopefully this issue is simply a case of this car having a bad transmission, and not an issue where there is a known, or unknown transmission defect that will manifest itself down the road when the car is out of warrantee.

I have to believe in the case of the oil gas-dilution there is simply NOT a fix, nor is there a game plan from Honda.

The attitude of the Honda folks really surprises me, although if they face the peril that all these engines have a defect, and their engineers haven't been able to come up with a fix, then Honda is in deep doo doo.

Broken Man 1999
“If I cannot drink Bourbon and smoke cigars in Heaven than I shall not go. " -Mark Twain

CULater
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by CULater » Thu Sep 13, 2018 12:50 pm

smitcat wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 11:53 am
CULater wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 8:31 pm
It has been reported for the 2.4 engine as well, as here (scroll down to #13):

https://www.crvownersclub.com/forums/11 ... ase-2.html

I have no experience or first-hand knowledge of oil dilution problems with this engine. Far less has appeared than for the 1.5T engine. It does have direct fuel injection, which most other small 4-cyl engines also have these days, and my oil analysis report stated that "High fuel dilution can be common in direct injected engines." The extent of this problem varies across models and manufacturers. If I had to guess, based on the sketchy information I've seen, I'd say the 2.4 might well have the problem but it is likely to be less severe than in the 1.5T engine which uses turbocharging. My understanding is that the engine in the RAV4 uses both port and direct injection, relying on port injection for normal driving. Port injection is not known to have a serious fuel dilution problem and it also keeps the valves from carboning up, which can be another problem with direct injection. Me -- I'd buy the Toyota and avoid both direct injection and turbo. The 2019 is due out in November - December and it looks every bit as good as the CRV on paper.
FWIW - The toyota is also a direct injection engine, which is not a signal for future problems. I have had a bunch of cars/trucks with direct injection and they have had no symtoms of fuel dilution.
These problems follow specific engine builds and not general engine designs.
The 2019 will have dual (port and direct) injection. Guess I assumed that previous versions were the same, along with the Camry.
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WhiteMaxima
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by WhiteMaxima » Thu Sep 13, 2018 1:39 pm

I guess there is no alternative. Change engine oil every 3000 miles or three months whichever come 1st. You can smell the dip stick to see if you have fuel dilution problem. If it smells gas, then you have problem. Avoid frequent short tip is also recommended.

CULater
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by CULater » Thu Sep 13, 2018 2:56 pm

WhiteMaxima wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 1:39 pm
I guess there is no alternative. Change engine oil every 3000 miles or three months whichever come 1st. You can smell the dip stick to see if you have fuel dilution problem. If it smells gas, then you have problem. Avoid frequent short tip is also recommended.
It always smells of gas. I just had the oil/filter change and it smells of gas. Gas gets into the oil on most DI/Turbo engines, at least according to what I've read. But it's when the fluid level on the dipstick starts to rise above full that you're told to get an oil change. I'll see how long that takes -- last time it was within 500 miles after an oil change.
May you have the hindsight to know where you've been, The foresight to know where you're going, And the insight to know when you've gone too far. ~ Irish Blessing

comehither2k18
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by comehither2k18 » Thu Sep 13, 2018 4:31 pm

Thank you to everyone on here for helping with our decision. We were scheduled for delivery on Saturday for a CRV LX but just canceled the purchase agreement. Even though the problem seems to be "mostly" with the 1.5t, I just don't want to constantly wonder if its going crop up at some time. One of benefits of buying a new vehicle is "peace of mind" for 3 yrs. Knowing what I know so far, if we bought the CRV I wouldn't have that peace of mind and that makes it tough to enjoy a new car. Im also concerned about the resale value when its time for a new one. That could take a hit.
Dealer was good on the cancel and insisted its not a problem with the LX engine, but it just doesn't feel right.

I also mentioned that as a current 08 civic owner, Im disappointed the way Honda is handling this problem with those of you affected so far, and that also factored into our decision to cancel the sale. So hopefully they will pass that along to Honda..Im living proof that this issue is affecting new sales. Maybe it will help them speed up with a resolution..

Good luck everyone... Im off check out the Ravs..... Again...... Ugggggg.. This is why I only car shop evry 5 to 7 years... Too damn stressful!

CULater
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by CULater » Thu Sep 13, 2018 4:41 pm

comehither2k18 wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 4:31 pm
Thank you to everyone on here for helping with our decision. We were scheduled for delivery on Saturday for a CRV LX but just canceled the purchase agreement. Even though the problem seems to be "mostly" with the 1.5t, I just don't want to constantly wonder if its going crop up at some time. One of benefits of buying a new vehicle is "peace of mind" for 3 yrs. Knowing what I know so far, if we bought the CRV I wouldn't have that peace of mind and that makes it tough to enjoy a new car. Im also concerned about the resale value when its time for a new one. That could take a hit.
Dealer was good on the cancel and insisted its not a problem with the LX engine, but it just doesn't feel right.

I also mentioned that as a current 08 civic owner, Im disappointed the way Honda is handling this problem with those of you affected so far, and that also factored into our decision to cancel the sale. So hopefully they will pass that along to Honda..Im living proof that this issue is affecting new sales. Maybe it will help them speed up with a resolution..

Good luck everyone... Im off check out the Ravs..... Again...... Ugggggg.. This is why I only car shop evry 5 to 7 years... Too damn stressful!
Thanks for the update. If I were lucky enough to be able to jump into the Wayback Machine, I'd go back and cancel my CRV purchase too! I only buy a car about every 15 years, so I made the decision to splurge and get the CRV Touring AWD. :oops: Glad you were able to reach a decision. Let us know what you end up doing.
May you have the hindsight to know where you've been, The foresight to know where you're going, And the insight to know when you've gone too far. ~ Irish Blessing

Will 82
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by Will 82 » Thu Sep 13, 2018 5:45 pm

Ended up getting changing my appointment from tomorrow to this afternoon for CarMax to appraise my '17 CRV.

Details of my car at time of appraisal:

Vehicle: 2017 HONDA CR-V 4D SPORT UTILITY EX AWD
Mileage: 19857
Engine: 1.5L


Appraisal Offer: $21,000
Valid through 09/20/2018

I was expecting $23-$24k.. I see 3 of the 2017 CRV EX in their database - one with 6k miles on it for $28,998 (AWD - this is $2k more than I paid for mine brand new!), another with 6k miles for $27,998 (2WD), and one with 26k miles on it for $24998 (2WD).

So considering mine has 20k miles and is AWD - I'd expect they would list it for $25998.

CULater
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by CULater » Thu Sep 13, 2018 6:25 pm

Will 82 wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 5:45 pm
Ended up getting changing my appointment from tomorrow to this afternoon for CarMax to appraise my '17 CRV.

Details of my car at time of appraisal:

Vehicle: 2017 HONDA CR-V 4D SPORT UTILITY EX AWD
Mileage: 19857
Engine: 1.5L


Appraisal Offer: $21,000
Valid through 09/20/2018

I was expecting $23-$24k.. I see 3 of the 2017 CRV EX in their database - one with 6k miles on it for $28,998 (AWD - this is $2k more than I paid for mine brand new!), another with 6k miles for $27,998 (2WD), and one with 26k miles on it for $24998 (2WD).

So considering mine has 20k miles and is AWD - I'd expect they would list it for $25998.
How much of a knockdown from the MSRP on yours?
May you have the hindsight to know where you've been, The foresight to know where you're going, And the insight to know when you've gone too far. ~ Irish Blessing

CULater
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by CULater » Thu Sep 13, 2018 6:33 pm

KBB gives trade-in value as 22,800 for EX in excellent condition with same mileage. 22,400 for very good. At least in my zip code.
May you have the hindsight to know where you've been, The foresight to know where you're going, And the insight to know when you've gone too far. ~ Irish Blessing

Will 82
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by Will 82 » Thu Sep 13, 2018 7:33 pm

CULater wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 6:25 pm
Will 82 wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 5:45 pm
Ended up getting changing my appointment from tomorrow to this afternoon for CarMax to appraise my '17 CRV.

Details of my car at time of appraisal:

Vehicle: 2017 HONDA CR-V 4D SPORT UTILITY EX AWD
Mileage: 19857
Engine: 1.5L


Appraisal Offer: $21,000
Valid through 09/20/2018

I was expecting $23-$24k.. I see 3 of the 2017 CRV EX in their database - one with 6k miles on it for $28,998 (AWD - this is $2k more than I paid for mine brand new!), another with 6k miles for $27,998 (2WD), and one with 26k miles on it for $24998 (2WD).

So considering mine has 20k miles and is AWD - I'd expect they would list it for $25998.
How much of a knockdown from the MSRP on yours?
MSRP was $29,035 for mine when I bought it. Purchase price was $27,090 in Aug 2017.

CULater
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by CULater » Thu Sep 13, 2018 8:15 pm

Killer. About 28% off MSRP for year-old vehicle. I'll take a bath on trade-in on mine. Thanks Honda.
May you have the hindsight to know where you've been, The foresight to know where you're going, And the insight to know when you've gone too far. ~ Irish Blessing

Barefoot
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by Barefoot » Thu Sep 13, 2018 8:49 pm

comehither2k18 wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 4:31 pm
Dealer was good on the cancel and insisted its not a problem with the LX engine
Does that imply that the dealer recognizes that there IS a problem with the EX?

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monkey_business
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by monkey_business » Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:20 pm

So if trading an almost new one in will cause big losses, doesn't it make more sense to just drive the car? You could also purchase an extended Honda Care warranty for 8 years for $1,000-1500 online if you want piece of mind.

I guess I just don't understand the rush to get rid of it. It drives fine, correct? There's just concern about long term reliability? Wouldn't what you lose by trading it in alone be enough to buy a whole new engine, in the worst case scenario?

Plus, there might be a fix from Honda in the future. Or an extended warranty on affected components free of charge.

CULater
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by CULater » Fri Sep 14, 2018 5:43 am

monkey_business wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:20 pm
So if trading an almost new one in will cause big losses, doesn't it make more sense to just drive the car? You could also purchase an extended Honda Care warranty for 8 years for $1,000-1500 online if you want piece of mind.

I guess I just don't understand the rush to get rid of it. It drives fine, correct? There's just concern about long term reliability? Wouldn't what you lose by trading it in alone be enough to buy a whole new engine, in the worst case scenario?

Plus, there might be a fix from Honda in the future. Or an extended warranty on affected components free of charge.
There's an old saying that goes something like "If you wouldn't buy, then you should sell." I know I wouldn't buy a CRV under the threat of death. Continuing to own one is being sentenced to a future of doubt and worry, checking the oil all the time, paying for oil analyses frequently to see if the engine is grinding itself to death. And the embarrassment of owning a piece of kr*p. But that's just me.
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JPH
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by JPH » Fri Sep 14, 2018 7:14 am

The latest from Honda to me in regard to my complaint is: "To better meet to expectation, how were you hoping for American Honda Motor Company, inc. to provide assistance?" :x
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Jack FFR1846
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by Jack FFR1846 » Fri Sep 14, 2018 7:37 am

WhiteMaxima wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 1:39 pm
I guess there is no alternative. Change engine oil every 3000 miles or three months whichever come 1st. You can smell the dip stick to see if you have fuel dilution problem. If it smells gas, then you have problem. Avoid frequent short tip is also recommended.
I'm glad I don't own one of these. I work 5.2 miles from home. Would they recommend I get on the highway and drive away 20 miles, then turn around and drive back 20 miles before heading to work?
barefoot wrote:Does that imply that the dealer recognizes that there IS a problem with the EX?
I think this means that the sales guy isn't deaf and blind. He isn't speaking for the dealer or for American Honda, he just sees incidents of the 1.5 turbo engine coming in with problems.
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DonDraper
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by DonDraper » Fri Sep 14, 2018 7:49 am

I think many in this thread are over stressing about this potential problem. Any issues you encounter are going to be covered by the 5 year/ 60,000 mile warranty. If you are still worried about it at after that point, trade it in.

Yes it’s mildly disappointing, but this hardly a catastrophic monetary issue. Trading in a Honda after 4 or 5 years isn’t the end of the world.

I own a 2018 CRV and I’m not worrying about it until i approach the end of the warranty.

UpperNwGuy
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by UpperNwGuy » Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:02 am

My daughter also has a 2018 CRV, and she has experienced no problems. She loves her car. And, yes, she is aware of the oil-gas-dilution issue that affects some CRVs.

CULater
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by CULater » Fri Sep 14, 2018 10:35 am

DonDraper wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 7:49 am
I think many in this thread are over stressing about this potential problem. Any issues you encounter are going to be covered by the 5 year/ 60,000 mile warranty. If you are still worried about it at after that point, trade it in.

Yes it’s mildly disappointing, but this hardly a catastrophic monetary issue. Trading in a Honda after 4 or 5 years isn’t the end of the world.

I own a 2018 CRV and I’m not worrying about it until i approach the end of the warranty.
I'm not quite as sanguine about the warranty coverage as you are. Honda has pretty much been blaming owners for the problem since it's been recognized by telling them it is due to their driving style and where they live. I don't trust them not to be looking to blame major engine failures on the owners also. Gee, wouldn't it be fun if you do have the oil dilution problem if they come back at you for not changing the oil every 500 miles when the oil level was an inch above overfill if you knew about the problem? Every time you take the thing in for an oil change, you're going to have to make sure to go through the hassle of having them document the overage and gas smell in the service report. And I'm not even mentioning the worry of having the engine crap out while you're on a long trip somewhere or any other time. You better have good roadside service and be prepared to be without your vehicle for days or weeks. Too much headache for some of us. The catastrophic issue is putting up with this thing for another 3-4 years instead of driving a decent vehicle instead and probably for 10-15 like I usually do.
May you have the hindsight to know where you've been, The foresight to know where you're going, And the insight to know when you've gone too far. ~ Irish Blessing

WhiteMaxima
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by WhiteMaxima » Fri Sep 14, 2018 10:53 am

I am just wondering if all Honda turbo engines have similar problems. Like the 2.0L and 1.5L. Maybe I should just get a 2.0L NA engine coming with basic Honda Civic.

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jabberwockOG
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by jabberwockOG » Fri Sep 14, 2018 10:56 am

CULater wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 10:35 am
DonDraper wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 7:49 am
I think many in this thread are over stressing about this potential problem. Any issues you encounter are going to be covered by the 5 year/ 60,000 mile warranty. If you are still worried about it at after that point, trade it in.

Yes it’s mildly disappointing, but this hardly a catastrophic monetary issue. Trading in a Honda after 4 or 5 years isn’t the end of the world.

I own a 2018 CRV and I’m not worrying about it until i approach the end of the warranty.
I'm not quite as sanguine about the warranty coverage as you are. Honda has pretty much been blaming owners for the problem since it's been recognized by telling them it is due to their driving style and where they live. I don't trust them not to be looking to blame major engine failures on the owners also. Gee, wouldn't it be fun if you do have the oil dilution problem if they come back at you for not changing the oil every 500 miles when the oil level was an inch above overfill if you knew about the problem? Every time you take the thing in for an oil change, you're going to have to make sure to go through the hassle of having them document the overage and gas smell in the service report. And I'm not even mentioning the worry of having the engine crap out while you're on a long trip somewhere or any other time. You better have good roadside service and be prepared to be without your vehicle for days or weeks. Too much headache for some of us. The catastrophic issue is putting up with this thing for another 3-4 years instead of driving a decent vehicle instead and probably for 10-15 like I usually do.
Agree warranty is worth very little compared to hassles involved going forward. Honda's public posture on this mess is a puzzle to me. Management seems to be reacting in a manner that will seriously damage the brand (quality and great engineering) and provide an excellent reason for many long time loyal customers to move to another manufacturer. Suggest you dump the car before the problem becomes even more well known, take the financial hit, and move on.

CULater
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by CULater » Fri Sep 14, 2018 11:13 am

Don't forget the 2017 and 2018 CRV have achieved the coveted CLUNKER award from Carcomplaints.com. Two years running and going for the rare trifecta in 2019. Congratulations!

Display these seals proudly on the bumper of your new CRV!

____2017 AWARD________ 2018 AWARD________2019 AWARD
Image Image >>>> TBA

Testimonials here:
https://www.carcomplaints.com/Honda/CR-V/2017/
https://www.carcomplaints.com/Honda/CR-V/2018/
May you have the hindsight to know where you've been, The foresight to know where you're going, And the insight to know when you've gone too far. ~ Irish Blessing

Joel
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by Joel » Sun Sep 16, 2018 10:32 pm

First oil change at 8,500 in my 18 civic hatchback, no major signs of gas dilution. Hopefully the tuning on this car makes the problem not as bad as the CRVs.
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CULater
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by CULater » Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:21 am

Far fewer oil dilution complaints filed with Carcomplaints.com on the Civic. Three for 2017 and one for 2018. The problems exists but the CRV engine is the worst.

https://www.carcomplaints.com/Honda/Civic/2017/engine
https://www.carcomplaints.com/Honda/Civic/2018/engine/
May you have the hindsight to know where you've been, The foresight to know where you're going, And the insight to know when you've gone too far. ~ Irish Blessing

CULater
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by CULater » Tue Sep 18, 2018 12:14 pm

Just got this email from the dealer where I bought the CRV and just took it in for the oil dilution issue. Coincidence or cause- and - effect? Vehicle is less than 14 months old and I don't ever recall an offer to trade one that soon. Maybe all the oil-dilution owners are viewed as ripe fruit.
based on our review you may be able to upgrade to a newer vehicle.

This means a new vehicle with a full warranty, as well as the peace of mind that comes with a newer model year vehicle. What is good for you is also good for us. We need more quality pre-owned vehicles and get to make customers happy in the process

Only a limited number of customers qualify to receive this notice and is only valid from 9/18/2018 until the end of the month
May you have the hindsight to know where you've been, The foresight to know where you're going, And the insight to know when you've gone too far. ~ Irish Blessing

smitcat
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by smitcat » Tue Sep 18, 2018 12:49 pm

CULater wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 12:14 pm
Just got this email from the dealer where I bought the CRV and just took it in for the oil dilution issue. Coincidence or cause- and - effect? Vehicle is less than 14 months old and I don't ever recall an offer to trade one that soon. Maybe all the oil-dilution owners are viewed as ripe fruit.
based on our review you may be able to upgrade to a newer vehicle.

This means a new vehicle with a full warranty, as well as the peace of mind that comes with a newer model year vehicle. What is good for you is also good for us. We need more quality pre-owned vehicles and get to make customers happy in the process

Only a limited number of customers qualify to receive this notice and is only valid from 9/18/2018 until the end of the month
Sounds purely coincidental and is likely a preplanned marketing program.

inbox788
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by inbox788 » Tue Sep 18, 2018 12:50 pm

CULater wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 12:14 pm
Just got this email from the dealer where I bought the CRV and just took it in for the oil dilution issue. Coincidence or cause- and - effect? Vehicle is less than 14 months old and I don't ever recall an offer to trade one that soon. Maybe all the oil-dilution owners are viewed as ripe fruit.
based on our review you may be able to upgrade to a newer vehicle.

This means a new vehicle with a full warranty, as well as the peace of mind that comes with a newer model year vehicle. What is good for you is also good for us. We need more quality pre-owned vehicles and get to make customers happy in the process

Only a limited number of customers qualify to receive this notice and is only valid from 9/18/2018 until the end of the month
I get those all the time, even on cars I don't own anymore. Just means your name got put in the database. Expect regular such offer for the rest of your life. Sometimes, they get my name correct, while other times, it's to Dear Occupant.

I still get annual offers for refrigerator filters for a fridge that DIED more than 5 years ago. No way I'm paying $50 for some pleated paper and plastic cover, but all it takes is one or two orders and they probably make some money.

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by Joel » Tue Sep 18, 2018 11:09 pm

CULater wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:21 am
Far fewer oil dilution complaints filed with Carcomplaints.com on the Civic. Three for 2017 and one for 2018. The problems exists but the CRV engine is the worst.

https://www.carcomplaints.com/Honda/Civic/2017/engine
https://www.carcomplaints.com/Honda/Civic/2018/engine/
That makes sense, but there are also far fewer Civic hatchbacks with this motor than CRVs on the road, so I'm still concerned about it. Possibly even more so if they only make it right for CRV owners.
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by CULater » Wed Sep 19, 2018 3:50 pm

So today we had another visit to Honda service. A warning appeared on my dash display that there was an "automatic high beam malfunction" in the middle of a sunny day when the headlights were not in use. They said they did a "software update" to hopefully address the problem. I wonder where the software update is to address the gas-in-oil problem? There should be a warning on the dash display that says "excessive gasoline in engine oil malfunction" but I haven't seen that one yet.
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by tomd37 » Wed Sep 19, 2018 4:38 pm

:idea: :)
Tom D.

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by smitcat » Wed Sep 19, 2018 4:45 pm

CULater wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 3:50 pm
So today we had another visit to Honda service. A warning appeared on my dash display that there was an "automatic high beam malfunction" in the middle of a sunny day when the headlights were not in use. They said they did a "software update" to hopefully address the problem. I wonder where the software update is to address the gas-in-oil problem? There should be a warning on the dash display that says "excessive gasoline in engine oil malfunction" but I haven't seen that one yet.
"There should be a warning on the dash display that says "excessive gasoline in engine oil malfunction" but I haven't seen that one yet"
If the oil gets thinned out sufficiently you will get a low oil pressure light.
If the oil level gets high enough and airates the oil you will get a low oil pressure light.
I hope this does not occurr at any time.

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by monkey_business » Wed Sep 19, 2018 6:40 pm

Joel wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 11:09 pm
CULater wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:21 am
Far fewer oil dilution complaints filed with Carcomplaints.com on the Civic. Three for 2017 and one for 2018. The problems exists but the CRV engine is the worst.

https://www.carcomplaints.com/Honda/Civic/2017/engine
https://www.carcomplaints.com/Honda/Civic/2018/engine/
That makes sense, but there are also far fewer Civic hatchbacks with this motor than CRVs on the road, so I'm still concerned about it. Possibly even more so if they only make it right for CRV owners.
The 1.5T engine is found in all Civic body styles, not just the hatchbacks. The difference is that all Civic hatchback trims come with the 1.5T engine, whereas the coupe and the sedan Civics have the normally aspirated 2.0L engine in the lower trims.

Similarly, any trim 2018 Accord can be bought with the 1.5T, with the 2.0T version being an option.

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by wasp09 » Thu Sep 20, 2018 2:25 pm

Let me try to guess the answer for why fewer civics are in trouble by pointing to this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9aO2vC_iMTI

Small turbo DI engine needs a richer fuel mixture at higher throttle to cool down the engine avoiding knocking. Richer mixture would lead to more oil dilution. Civic is a smaller car, hence less load, throttle and dilution than CRV.

This cooling effect of richer mixture is required when the engine is running hot. That could be why the dilution issue was also reported in Florida if we drive the CRV hard enough.

We may want to add yet another workaround to the list. When the engine warms up, be gentle on the gas throttler ... :)

High temperature helps to get rid of gas from the crankcase. However it also results in a richer mixer under load to suppress knocking. If too much gets pass the rings, it would still accumulate.

There were complains and protects about the same problem after the May CRV recall in China.

A large portion of the "fix" is to shorten warm up time. I guess the "fix" has not done enough to reduce the unburnt fuel yet. That probably need changing the engine geometry.

BTW, the May recall in China offered a life time warranty on internal parts, like engine head, bearings, piston rings.... + RM 500. Just keep replacing those when they fail. We probably can't ask for a replacement before the engine fails. :?

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by CULater » Fri Sep 21, 2018 9:41 am

wasp09 wrote:
Thu Sep 20, 2018 2:25 pm
Let me try to guess the answer for why fewer civics are in trouble by pointing to this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9aO2vC_iMTI

Small turbo DI engine needs a richer fuel mixture at higher throttle to cool down the engine avoiding knocking. Richer mixture would lead to more oil dilution. Civic is a smaller car, hence less load, throttle and dilution than CRV.

This cooling effect of richer mixture is required when the engine is running hot. That could be why the dilution issue was also reported in Florida if we drive the CRV hard enough.

We may want to add yet another workaround to the list. When the engine warms up, be gentle on the gas throttler ... :)

High temperature helps to get rid of gas from the crankcase. However it also results in a richer mixer under load to suppress knocking. If too much gets pass the rings, it would still accumulate.

There were complains and protects about the same problem after the May CRV recall in China.

A large portion of the "fix" is to shorten warm up time. I guess the "fix" has not done enough to reduce the unburnt fuel yet. That probably need changing the engine geometry.

BTW, the May recall in China offered a life time warranty on internal parts, like engine head, bearings, piston rings.... + RM 500. Just keep replacing those when they fail. We probably can't ask for a replacement before the engine fails. :?
This agrees with information provided to me by the technician at Oil Analyzers:
a hot engine is more likely to ignite the fuel mixture prematurely causing detonation which can cause catastrophic engine failures. To combat this, a small amount of extra fuel is sprayed to cool the inlet charge which in turn causes more fuel past the rings.
He also wrote:
cold weather does increase the fuel being used because the air is more dense, causing the engine to use more fuel to keep the air-fuel ratio in the correct range. They also use more on cold starts to pre-heat the catalysts.
So it would seem that cold as well as hot engine operating environment increases fuel dilution. We already knew about that from China and Canada. These issues affect DI/Turbo engines generally, but for some reason the fuel dilution problem seems to be severe with the 1.5T engine in the CRV, to the degree that oil viscosity and engine lubrication are likely to be affected and shorten the longevity of the engine and possibly cause catastrophic engine failure in some. The only answer seems to be to carefully monitor the oil level, change oil when the oil level increases noticeably, and also to conduct regular oil analyses to monitor engine component wear.

Honda has had nearly two years to address this problem, but all you get from Honda dealers is that "they are aware of the issue and working on a solution." I believe the solution is on the order you mention - the engine design must be modified. So the likelihood that owners of the 2017, 2018, and probably the 2019 are out of luck when it comes to a "fix."
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by Horsefly » Fri Sep 21, 2018 6:53 pm

So my daughter bought a 2017 CRV last November. I've been following this thread, and checking her oil level periodically (when she came over to visit). Last weekend I noticed that the level was slightly above full, and before it had seemed slightly below full. She made an appointment for an oil change and I took it in for her (she traded cars with DW, and went to work).

I ended up speaking to two service advisors. The one that signed me in with the car said she had never heard of the problem and clearly didn't want to talk about it. They agreed to analyze the level and test the oil, but it would take an extra couple of hours. We left the car and went home. She called pretty quickly (maybe 45 minutes after we had left it off) and said it was ready. I asked about the oil dilution and she said that the level when we brought it in was at full and not over-full, and they didn't see anything else that would indicate any dilution issue. She also said they had checked for service bulletins and didn't find any. (Duh!)

When I picked up the car I ended up talking to a different service advisor. He was much more interested in the problem, and asked me for some places to look to find out more about it. I told him that carcomplaint.com had given the CRV the clunker award for 2017 and 2018 because of the problem, and also told him to find the owners on-line forum (I couldn't remember the name). He actually wrote it all down and said he was surprised he hadn't heard more about it before. :shock:

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by inbox788 » Fri Sep 21, 2018 7:50 pm

Horsefly wrote:
Fri Sep 21, 2018 6:53 pm
So my daughter bought a 2017 CRV last November. I've been following this thread, and checking her oil level periodically (when she came over to visit). Last weekend I noticed that the level was slightly above full, and before it had seemed slightly below full. She made an appointment for an oil change and I took it in for her (she traded cars with DW, and went to work).

I ended up speaking to two service advisors. The one that signed me in with the car said she had never heard of the problem and clearly didn't want to talk about it. They agreed to analyze the level and test the oil, but it would take an extra couple of hours. We left the car and went home. She called pretty quickly (maybe 45 minutes after we had left it off) and said it was ready. I asked about the oil dilution and she said that the level when we brought it in was at full and not over-full, and they didn't see anything else that would indicate any dilution issue. She also said they had checked for service bulletins and didn't find any. (Duh!)

When I picked up the car I ended up talking to a different service advisor. He was much more interested in the problem, and asked me for some places to look to find out more about it. I told him that carcomplaint.com had given the CRV the clunker award for 2017 and 2018 because of the problem, and also told him to find the owners on-line forum (I couldn't remember the name). He actually wrote it all down and said he was surprised he hadn't heard more about it before. :shock:
There's a Secretive TSB on this. If customer calls about oil gas dilution issue, deny ever hearing about it. Pay a lot of lip service and take down information. When done, file in circular file cabinet. Repeat with next customer with same complaint.

There is no oil gas dilution issue. Everything is operating normally.

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by bob60014 » Sat Sep 22, 2018 6:50 am

Though it's a gas odor issue, my untrained self would make me think these are somewhat related.

https://topclassactions.com/lawsuit-set ... er-cabins/

https://topclassactions.com/lawsuit-set ... r-problem/

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by CULater » Sun Sep 23, 2018 8:38 am

bob60014 wrote:
Sat Sep 22, 2018 6:50 am
Though it's a gas odor issue, my untrained self would make me think these are somewhat related.

https://topclassactions.com/lawsuit-set ... er-cabins/

https://topclassactions.com/lawsuit-set ... r-problem/
Yes, I've seen many complaints that mention both the gasoline odor in the cabin and rising oil levels occurring together. Not all CRVs with the oil dilution issue have gas odor - I haven't noticed that at least so far with mine (fingers crossed). Looks like the lawsuits are beginning to pile up on this issue.
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by wasp09 » Mon Sep 24, 2018 2:14 pm

If someone can come up with a cheap circulation system that separates gas from motor oil safely instead of heat and evaporate, that would be nice. Imagine just plug it in to clean up diluted oil after driving, put the extracted gas back into the tank to save more if possible. Problem solved... :)

It does not have to be fast, perhaps separation by density. Oil analysis labs definitely know how. As long as it can complete a cycle over night, that would be fine.

The other alternative may be using a drain tape at the oil pan. Replace motor oil regularly just like filling up 2 stoke engines. In the 90's, cars came with drain tapes on the radiator. It isn't a dream...

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by neilpilot » Mon Sep 24, 2018 2:36 pm

wasp09 wrote:
Mon Sep 24, 2018 2:14 pm
If someone can come up with a cheap circulation system that separates gas from motor oil safely instead of heat and evaporate, that would be nice. Imagine just plug it in to clean up diluted oil after driving, put the extracted gas back into the tank to save more if possible. Problem solved... :)

It does not have to be fast, perhaps separation by density. Oil analysis labs definitely know how. As long as it can complete a cycle over night, that would be fine.

The other alternative may be using a drain tape at the oil pan. Replace motor oil regularly just like filling up 2 stoke engines. In the 90's, cars came with drain tapes on the radiator. It isn't a dream...
I doubt anyone wants to run a regular oil-gas extraction. Most owners don't event check their oil levels.

Density difference is irrelevant, since they are almost infinitely soluble. In fact, IIRC the oil and gasoline chemically combine to make a mixed oligomer.

Oil analysis labs use either a GC or GCMS method, and don't actually separate the components.

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by CULater » Mon Sep 24, 2018 4:14 pm

NHTSA website lists many complaints about the fuel dilution / fuel smell in cabin problem for the 2017 CRV. 2018 CRV is the same vehicle as 2017. Makes for interesting reading if you are an owner or prospective buyer. Scroll down to Complaints section and filter by Engine and Fuel/Propulsion System. Enjoy!

https://www.nhtsa.gov/vehicle/2017/HONDA/CR-V/SUV/AWD
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by wasp09 » Mon Sep 24, 2018 10:15 pm

neilpilot wrote:
Mon Sep 24, 2018 2:36 pm

I doubt anyone wants to run a regular oil-gas extraction. Most owners don't event check their oil levels.

Density difference is irrelevant, since they are almost infinitely soluble. In fact, IIRC the oil and gasoline chemically combine to make a mixed oligomer.

Oil analysis labs use either a GC or GCMS method, and don't actually separate the components.
OK. It does not exist. Thanks for the explanation. No easy solution then, other than redesigning the engine correctly. :x

That implies once the gas desolves into the oil, it is a problem. There is no easy way to get it off.

Actually there might have been a recall on civic in China:

https://www.yicaiglobal.com/news/civic- ... 0000-units

So it's also a problem for civics.
Last edited by wasp09 on Tue Sep 25, 2018 9:29 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by beastykato » Tue Sep 25, 2018 9:14 am

I am so glad that Honda is finally coming to light in the public with a lot of their reliability issues. I was a Honda fanboy since high school. I've got Honda lawn mowers, dirtbikes, Civic, Accord, and Ridgeline, snow blower, pressure washer. I mean you name it, I've made Honda a small fortune, and both my R18 Civic and my J35 VCM V6 Accord had major engine failure prior to 100k miles turning over.

Now I'm not hear to totally bash Honda because they did fix my Accord, but only because there was already a class action lawsuit in place for their VCM engines. I feel so bad for anyone that buys a newer V6 Accord or Ridgeline with VCM because the engines are ticking time bombs. The software updates they provided as a "fix" did not fix the issue it simply delayed the issue so that it happens later in the engine's life. There are also a lot of issues with Honda and their piston rings and oil burn/dilution. The piston rings are what killed my R18, but Honda never admitted to fault on that one and I got shafted because I was a young kid that didn't keep receipts back then.

I'm not just here to bash Honda, because the cars otherwise were very reliable. However, catastrophic engine failures are simply something that is inexcusable at those mileage levels and are completely due to engine design flaws and/or lesser quality components that Honda has utilized. Toyota also had issues with piston rings in many of their engines too, so it's not isolated to Honda, but it seems like they clean up their mess a lot better.

I definitely urge anyone thinking about buying a modern Honda to thoroughly research the lawsuits in place over the last 10-15 years before they make a final decision on a purchase. I've moved away from Honda now so these new turbo problems are new too me, but I can't say I'm surprised. Honda has been living on their reputation since the early 2000's and their cars haven't really been that great.

Thankfully my Ridgeline is a 2009 and doesn't have any of the fancy gizmo cylinder deactivation or anything else on it. So far it has been reliable *knock on wood*.

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by CULater » Tue Sep 25, 2018 4:30 pm

wasp09 wrote:
Mon Sep 24, 2018 10:15 pm
neilpilot wrote:
Mon Sep 24, 2018 2:36 pm

I doubt anyone wants to run a regular oil-gas extraction. Most owners don't event check their oil levels.

Density difference is irrelevant, since they are almost infinitely soluble. In fact, IIRC the oil and gasoline chemically combine to make a mixed oligomer.

Oil analysis labs use either a GC or GCMS method, and don't actually separate the components.
OK. It does not exist. Thanks for the explanation. No easy solution then, other than redesigning the engine correctly. :x

That implies once the gas desolves into the oil, it is a problem. There is no easy way to get it off.

Actually there might have been a recall on civic in China:

https://www.yicaiglobal.com/news/civic- ... 0000-units

So it's also a problem for civics.
So, 350,000 CRVs recalled in China and now 290,000 Civics apparently for the same oil dilution issue. I can't help but wonder why that isn't happening here in the U.S. Are we just stupid, is the Chinese government simply more aggressive in dealing with car makers, or what? At any rate this is reputation-damaging stuff for Honda. Guess we'll see what eventually happens. I'm starting to feel sorry for all the people that are going to end up with these vehicles when they buy used Hondas that people like me will be dumping on the used car market because they are the worst of the worst. If there's anything I'd avoid more than a new Honda with the 1.5T engine, it's a used one.
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by neilpilot » Tue Sep 25, 2018 4:42 pm

CULater wrote:
Tue Sep 25, 2018 4:30 pm


So, 350,000 CRVs recalled in China and now 290,000 Civics apparently for the same oil dilution issue. I can't help but wonder why that isn't happening here in the U.S. Are we just stupid, is the Chinese government simply more aggressive in dealing with car makers, or what?
When have you ever seen a car recall in the USA for a non-safety related issue? While some may argue that the oil dilution could impact safety, isn't it really a reliability and engine-life issue?

From the governments website: "Initiated safety recalls require a manufacturer's action to announce and remedy the defects. A recall is issued when a manufacturer or NHTSA determines that a vehicle, equipment, car seat, or tire creates an unreasonable safety risk or fails to meet minimum safety standards."

So the Chinese apparently view consumer protection differently from the USA. In the USA it's typically left to the lawyers via Class Actions.

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by Jack FFR1846 » Tue Sep 25, 2018 4:43 pm

We need a system like Van Hool busses use. Yah, they're diesel, so easier to implement. They continuously take a small amount of oil from the crank case and feed it to fuel the bus. A large oil tank replaces the oil taken with new oil. Wouldn't take much with the Honda as it's adding what? A quart of gas every 500 miles or so.... that's a pretty slow rate.
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by wasp09 » Wed Sep 26, 2018 10:09 am

neilpilot wrote:
Tue Sep 25, 2018 4:42 pm

When have you ever seen a car recall in the USA for a non-safety related issue? While some may argue that the oil dilution could impact safety, isn't it really a reliability and engine-life issue?

From the governments website: "Initiated safety recalls require a manufacturer's action to announce and remedy the defects. A recall is issued when a manufacturer or NHTSA determines that a vehicle, equipment, car seat, or tire creates an unreasonable safety risk or fails to meet minimum safety standards."

So the Chinese apparently view consumer protection differently from the USA. In the USA it's typically left to the lawyers via Class Actions.
Lawyers will be shooting at gas filling up the cabin and engine breakdown/shutdown when dilution is way out of control. Those are more than reliability and engine-life issues...

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by Turbo29 » Wed Sep 26, 2018 4:53 pm

neilpilot wrote:
Tue Sep 25, 2018 4:42 pm
CULater wrote:
Tue Sep 25, 2018 4:30 pm


So, 350,000 CRVs recalled in China and now 290,000 Civics apparently for the same oil dilution issue. I can't help but wonder why that isn't happening here in the U.S. Are we just stupid, is the Chinese government simply more aggressive in dealing with car makers, or what?
When have you ever seen a car recall in the USA for a non-safety related issue? While some may argue that the oil dilution could impact safety, isn't it really a reliability and engine-life issue?

From the governments website: "Initiated safety recalls require a manufacturer's action to announce and remedy the defects. A recall is issued when a manufacturer or NHTSA determines that a vehicle, equipment, car seat, or tire creates an unreasonable safety risk or fails to meet minimum safety standards."

So the Chinese apparently view consumer protection differently from the USA. In the USA it's typically left to the lawyers via Class Actions.
My Volkswagen diesel was bought back by Volkswagen due to a class action lawsuit 2 years ago. Kudos to the those lawyers who got it done in record time.

It was because of emissions cheating.

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by Artful Dodger » Thu Sep 27, 2018 3:37 pm

Sorry, but I haven't read all the previous posts.

I did want to ask a question. We've been considering a CRV. I did a google search for this issue and saw a site that indicated this was an issue for the 2015-2018 model years as well as an attorney's ad looking for owners of 2016-2018 models.

We were thinking of buying used. If we go with models from 2014 and earlier, is this still an issue? Is is limited to Honda's 1.5L Earth Dreams engine? Are there models, years, engines that are OK, or some we should definitely avoid?

Honda gets so much love from a lot of BH forum members, so I was concerned to see this thread.

Thanks in advance :)

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