My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

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CULater
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by CULater » Sun May 06, 2018 4:53 pm

Wow. Now over 100,000 views of this thread about the oil dilution issue on CRVowners forum, a record. Honda -- are you listening?

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http://www.crvownersclub.com/forums/137 ... level.html
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Carl53
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by Carl53 » Sun May 06, 2018 5:46 pm

CRV sales do seem to be dropping the last few months. I don't know about carsalesbase as far as quality of data but their data definitely shows a collapse in China and drops in Europe and the USA.

http://carsalesbase.com/us-car-sales-da ... onda-cr-v/

http://carsalesbase.com/china-car-sales ... onda-cr-v/

http://carsalesbase.com/european-car-sa ... honda-crv/

CULater
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by CULater » Sun May 06, 2018 11:47 pm

LadyGeek wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:49 pm
^^^ You might want to double-check the first link.

When finances are affected, management will notice. The oil dilution issue has been identified as a hit to last month's Honda sales in China.

- Honda's China sales fall in March as quality issue threatens growth run, April 3, 2018, Reuters.com
- Dongfeng Honda CR-V March sales nosedives 93.6% YoY threatened by engine issue, April 04,2018, Gasgoo.com (China automotive marketplace journal).
As previously posted by Lady Geek, Honda sales in China have evaporated. Chinese officials have halted sales there until Honda decides to pull its head out of the sand.
May you have the hindsight to know where you've been, The foresight to know where you're going, And the insight to know when you've gone too far. ~ Irish Blessing

CULater
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by CULater » Mon May 07, 2018 10:52 am

Just received this email today -- looks like at least one law firm is going to file a class action against Honda for the CRV oil dilution problem. Yea!
Has there been any update regarding your Honda? We intend to move forward with the class action within the next couple of weeks. Please let us know if you are interested in being a part of it and we can schedule a quick call to discuss.
Here's the law firm contact information for those interested:

Sauder I Schelkopf
555 Lancaster Avenue
Berwyn, PA 19312
610.200.0581
mds@sstriallawyers.com
sauderschelkopf.com
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ncbill
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by ncbill » Mon May 07, 2018 6:51 pm

Wakefield1 wrote:
Sat May 05, 2018 2:48 pm
munemaker wrote:
Sat May 05, 2018 2:35 pm
Wakefield1 wrote:
Sat May 05, 2018 2:23 pm

Any car with cylinder deactivation ought to have an override/lock out setting ...
I have never hear of such a thing. Is this real or just a pipe dream?
A pipe dream that ought to be-although I think some mechanically minded truck owners have done it themselves
I believe I recall seeing a discussion of this (and problems associated with cylinder deactivation) in a members only section of "Garage Journal" (garagejournal dot com)
I paid several hundred bucks for an aftermarket tuner that plugs into the OBD-II port (a standard OBD-II code reader won't work) in order to turn off "Displacement on Demand" (DOD), Chevy's term for cylinder deactivation on my Suburban.

Before I turned it off the engine would burn nearly a quart of oil in under 500 miles on highway trips (that's when DOD is active)

About $7000 for an engine replacement if you don't do the above...all for a whopping 1-2 mpg improvement in highway fuel efficiency.

finite_difference
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by finite_difference » Mon May 07, 2018 8:32 pm

CULater wrote:
Sat May 05, 2018 3:38 pm
This guy found a way to disable VCM (variable cylinder management) on his Odyssey V-6 Works if you don't mind driving around with the check engine light on all the time.
I have successfully disabled VCM on my 2008 Odyssey Touring by pulling the connector off of the rocker arm oil pressure sensor. The only consequence seems to be that the check engine light comes on.
For the Honda Odyssey (and I think Pilot) you can buy the VCMuzzler on eBay (aftermarket part) that does it safely, and without turning on your check engine light. I am not good with cars but even I managed to install it (just unplug a cable, plug in VCMuzzler, plug cable into VCMuzzler.) They should make it an option, though, I agree.
The most precious gift we can offer anyone is our attention. - Thich Nhat Hanh

finite_difference
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by finite_difference » Mon May 07, 2018 8:33 pm

CardinalRule wrote:
Sat May 05, 2018 10:18 am
Wow, my months-long 2018 CR-V vs. RAV4 vs. CX-5 shopping analysis just got narrowed down a bit.
Why not get the non-turbo version?
The most precious gift we can offer anyone is our attention. - Thich Nhat Hanh

CULater
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by CULater » Mon May 07, 2018 9:39 pm

finite_difference wrote:
Mon May 07, 2018 8:33 pm
CardinalRule wrote:
Sat May 05, 2018 10:18 am
Wow, my months-long 2018 CR-V vs. RAV4 vs. CX-5 shopping analysis just got narrowed down a bit.
Why not get the non-turbo version?
Reports are that it actually has the fuel dilution problem too, but not as bad as the 1.5L turbo. Probably involves the direct fuel injection, piston rings, and whatever else is flawed in the Honda engine design. The turbo just amps up the problem.
May you have the hindsight to know where you've been, The foresight to know where you're going, And the insight to know when you've gone too far. ~ Irish Blessing

divenutny
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by divenutny » Fri May 11, 2018 6:31 pm

Folks,
I want to Thank You for sharing this issue. I had a down payment on a CRV EX-L when I finally noticed this issue on your site any other sites. I cancelled the order. I live in NY, the dealership is claiming they had no clue of this issue, which I am finding a bit hard to believe. I have a big challenge trying to understand why Honda has not provided a better answer.

I have owned cars from several companies over the 40 years I have been driving. I always got over 200,000+ miles of life out of most of them. I do not see how this engine can get that kind of life without solving this issue. They can not rely on the gas evaporating. High concentrations of gas in the oil is very bad.

I wish the current Honda owners a fast and effective resolution. Keep complaining. I found this issue by accident, trying to learn what oil the engine takes. I found your blog, edmunds and reuters articles. I hope the word gets out better than it has. Few people are aware.

Thanks again

Helo80
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by Helo80 » Fri May 11, 2018 8:07 pm

divenutny wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 6:31 pm
Folks,
I want to Thank You for sharing this issue. I had a down payment on a CRV EX-L when I finally noticed this issue on your site any other sites. I cancelled the order. I live in NY, the dealership is claiming they had no clue of this issue, which I am finding a bit hard to believe. I have a big challenge trying to understand why Honda has not provided a better answer.

Knowing nothing about your Honda dealership, my honest opinion is that your Honda dealership is likely telling the truth (at least the salesman and/or Sales Manager). This is not to denigrate the car salesman profession, but rather I doubt a new car salesman is always in tune with the service advisors and ASE mechanics in the back. Different department, different social groups, different concerns.

CULater
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by CULater » Fri May 11, 2018 9:54 pm

The Honda Service departments claim ignorance of this issue, but I wonder what the salespeople know when it comes to offering trade-in value for your CRV. I'm tempted to go to a couple dealerships and act like I want to trade my CRV on something else just to find out. Salesman: "Well, there have been some unresolved problems with oil dilution in the CRV that are affecting the trade-in value of that vehicle right now." Me: "What are you talking about? The Service Department here knows nothing of this issue. Do you guys ever talk to one another?"
May you have the hindsight to know where you've been, The foresight to know where you're going, And the insight to know when you've gone too far. ~ Irish Blessing

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by Morse Code » Sat May 12, 2018 9:31 am

My 2018 CR-V EX has 2500 miles and I have been watching the oil level very closely since I learned of this. No increased level, no gas smell, no fuel in oil per drop test. Most of these miles have been short trips in cold weather.

Not rubbing it in because I feel bad for the OP, but I wanted to report this as another data point. Honda may have resolved the problem for all we know.

By the way, couldn't be happier with the vehicle. Last week I took a 60 mile highway trip and got over 36 mpg, well exceeding expectations.
Livin' the dream

tapotti
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by tapotti » Sat May 12, 2018 9:41 am

My 2017 EX-L also seems okay right now.

Still curious if anyone has successfully used premium gasoline to solve the problem.

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teacher
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by teacher » Sat May 12, 2018 9:59 am

Do we know what year the oil-gas dilution issue reared it's ugly head? I have a 2012 CR-V EX with about 60,000 miles on it.

CULater
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by CULater » Sat May 12, 2018 12:28 pm

teacher wrote:
Sat May 12, 2018 9:59 am
Do we know what year the oil-gas dilution issue reared it's ugly head? I have a 2012 CR-V EX with about 60,000 miles on it.
Mainly affecting the 1.5L turbo engine that Honda started using in the 2016 Civic and the CRV in 2017. Seems related to the use of small-displacement turbo engines with direct fuel injection. Has been reported in more isolated cases with the non-Turbo engine that uses direct fuel injection. Not sure when Honda went to DFI in their engines. Toyota uses port injection which seems less prone to the problem since fuel isn't being sprayed directly into the cylinder and is burned more completely. Something seems wrong with Honda's engine design which is causing incomplete fuel combustion and the unburned fuel is getting scraped into the crankcase. Might be other factors involved as well. No definitive answer at this point.
May you have the hindsight to know where you've been, The foresight to know where you're going, And the insight to know when you've gone too far. ~ Irish Blessing

theplayer11
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by theplayer11 » Sat May 12, 2018 2:05 pm

finite_difference wrote:
Mon May 07, 2018 8:33 pm
CardinalRule wrote:
Sat May 05, 2018 10:18 am
Wow, my months-long 2018 CR-V vs. RAV4 vs. CX-5 shopping analysis just got narrowed down a bit.
Why not get the non-turbo version?
maybe he wants a little more pep in his ride. 4 cyl turbo is the minimum for me in a vehicle, prefer a 6 cyl.

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teacher
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by teacher » Sat May 12, 2018 3:14 pm

Thanks CULater. I hope this thread continues until there is a definitive correction, as DH is hoping to buy another CR-V EX or EX-L next year. We have had CRVs since their inception.

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by CULater » Sat May 12, 2018 3:42 pm

teacher wrote:
Sat May 12, 2018 3:14 pm
Thanks CULater. I hope this thread continues until there is a definitive correction, as DH is hoping to buy another CR-V EX or EX-L next year. We have had CRVs since their inception.
I'll keep you updated on my travails. If Honda issues a fix or recall, I'll be on top of it. If there is a class-action lawsuit, I'll be there. But after the end of this year, when the new RAV4 comes out, I may be dumping the CRV for a RAV and I won't care anymore. That's probably where this thread is going for me.
May you have the hindsight to know where you've been, The foresight to know where you're going, And the insight to know when you've gone too far. ~ Irish Blessing

finite_difference
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by finite_difference » Sun May 13, 2018 7:58 pm

CULater wrote:
Mon May 07, 2018 9:39 pm
finite_difference wrote:
Mon May 07, 2018 8:33 pm
CardinalRule wrote:
Sat May 05, 2018 10:18 am
Wow, my months-long 2018 CR-V vs. RAV4 vs. CX-5 shopping analysis just got narrowed down a bit.
Why not get the non-turbo version?
Reports are that it actually has the fuel dilution problem too, but not as bad as the 1.5L turbo. Probably involves the direct fuel injection, piston rings, and whatever else is flawed in the Honda engine design. The turbo just amps up the problem.
Ouch, didn’t know that!
The most precious gift we can offer anyone is our attention. - Thich Nhat Hanh

need403bhelp
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by need403bhelp » Fri May 25, 2018 6:34 am

https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Compan ... gship-CR-V

Sales to resume in China. Thoughts?

inbox788
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by inbox788 » Fri May 25, 2018 11:11 am

need403bhelp wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 6:34 am
https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Compan ... gship-CR-V

Sales to resume in China. Thoughts?
Thanks for the update.
China's quality-control watchdog, which announced the decision Wednesday, likely gave the green light after Honda managed to prove that the replaced parts and upgraded engine control unit software could withstand various temperature conditions. The Japanese automaker is also likely to recall other cars equipped with the same engine as the CR-V.
Honda previously offered to extended the warranty, but it's unclear if it still applies or would be expanded beyond China.

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by CULater » Fri May 25, 2018 11:21 am

need403bhelp wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 6:34 am
https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Compan ... gship-CR-V

Sales to resume in China. Thoughts?
Yeah, my thoughts are what Honda plans to do for all the other CRVs in the U.S., Canada, and Europe that have this problem!!! I haven't heard anything out of them on that. If there are replacement parts and software upgrades that address this problem, when will there be a recall of these things here? I'm waiting..... and waiting ....
Last edited by CULater on Fri May 25, 2018 11:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
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munemaker
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by munemaker » Fri May 25, 2018 1:01 pm

Original poster - CU LATER -->
Did you ever have your oil analyzed? Did it show gasoline in the oil? Could you please post the results?

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by NHRATA01 » Fri May 25, 2018 1:14 pm

CULater wrote:
Sat May 12, 2018 12:28 pm
teacher wrote:
Sat May 12, 2018 9:59 am
Do we know what year the oil-gas dilution issue reared it's ugly head? I have a 2012 CR-V EX with about 60,000 miles on it.
Mainly affecting the 1.5L turbo engine that Honda started using in the 2016 Civic and the CRV in 2017. Seems related to the use of small-displacement turbo engines with direct fuel injection. Has been reported in more isolated cases with the non-Turbo engine that uses direct fuel injection. Not sure when Honda went to DFI in their engines. Toyota uses port injection which seems less prone to the problem since fuel isn't being sprayed directly into the cylinder and is burned more completely. Something seems wrong with Honda's engine design which is causing incomplete fuel combustion and the unburned fuel is getting scraped into the crankcase. Might be other factors involved as well. No definitive answer at this point.
Toyota actually uses a combo port/DI setup in their 6's and the Turbo 4 (not sure about the naturally aspirated 4). Direct injection pays benefits in fuel efficiency since you can run higher compression ratios thanks to the cooling effect of the liquid gasoline evaporating in the cylinder and lowering temperature thus avoiding detonation. This impact is exacerbated in a turbocharged setup. The negative of DI is both the lack of cleaning on the intake valve that port provides (hence the carboning issues) as well as poorer fuel control at idle over a port setup - which is what can lead to the fuel dilution issues. The dual injection setup like Toyota's (and now Ford's as well as GM's new ZR1 heart the LT5) allows the use of port injectors at low engine speeds while using DI at high speed/high load where it pays off in added power.

That said GM has had a DI 2.0T for about 10 years now and not had the issue, and DI turbo 4s are becoming the engine of choice across the board these days, so I am not sure why Honda is having such issues while others aren't. My sense would be it lies either in the software tuning or perhaps the combustion chamber design that leads to poor atomization of the fuel. But it's mere speculation. But it's worth noting it's not 1993 anymore and Honda and Toyota are prone to make design errors just as much as anyone else.

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by munemaker » Mon May 28, 2018 9:34 am

munemaker wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 1:01 pm
CU LATER -->
Did you ever have your oil analyzed? Did it show gasoline in the oil? Could you please post the results?

leehsm
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by leehsm » Tue May 29, 2018 8:29 am

Was hoping to find more info on the Dilution problem. Can’t seem to find if Honda is actually admitting the problem exists and what can a visit to dealer accomplish. They have told me there is no problem and my checking dip stick does not smell of fuel. I’m concerned that the problem can appear sometime in near future. Any comments appreciated. Lee

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by inbox788 » Tue May 29, 2018 3:48 pm

leehsm wrote:
Tue May 29, 2018 8:29 am
Was hoping to find more info on the Dilution problem. Can’t seem to find if Honda is actually admitting the problem exists and what can a visit to dealer accomplish. They have told me there is no problem and my checking dip stick does not smell of fuel. I’m concerned that the problem can appear sometime in near future. Any comments appreciated. Lee
The problem only exists in China says Honda. That's probably because the social media response was much stronger and the regulator there have more teeth, guts and b**** b****** big c****** [bravado | boldness | braveness | chutzpah | courage ].

There's a lot of anecdotal reports and complaints, but how many formal and official complaints with the company or regulators? Which one? DOT? FTC? BBB? Lawyers? https://www.usa.gov/car-complaints Is there a big or official number of complaints being reported anywhere?
Dongfeng Honda Automobile late last week acted to immediately halt deliveries of its turbocharged 2018 CR-V and Civic models, in the wake of the rejection of a proposed recall by China's top quality watchdog.

The General Administration of Quality Supervision, Inspection and Quarantine held talks with Dongfeng Honda on Thursday in Beijing.

It told the carmaker to "attach great importance" to the problems reported by customers, and eliminate reported defects in strict accordance with regulatory requirements.
...
The watchdog declined the auto manufacturer's proposed recall plan for the affected vehicles.

It ordered the company to further improve its planned technology solution, and launch practical and effective measures, according to the China Inspection and Quarantine Times, the newspaper managed by the administration.
...
The Defective Product Administrative Center under the quality watchdog had received more than 3,612 complaints about Dongfeng Honda engines by the end of January and an additional 2,693 complaints in February.

Dongfeng Honda itself said it received 20,742 complaints nationwide by January, but claimed in February that the lubricant level problems would not cause abnormal wear or shortened the lifespan of its engines, despite warning lights being illuminated on the car dashboard.
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/cndy/2018- ... 783888.htm

Over 20k complaints out of 130k cars recalled! Wow, that's a lot higher than I had been thinking. And just imagine adding all those that didn't complain yet or haven't discovered they have the same problem.

Donfeng Honda to recall over 130 thousand 1.5T CR-Vs
http://autonews.gasgoo.com/china_news/70014644.html

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by CULater » Thu May 31, 2018 11:11 am

And the problems with the CRV keep coming:
May 17, 2018 — A "Honda Sensing" lawsuit alleges the driver-assist systems are defective in 2017 Honda CR-V models, including the EX, EX-L and the CR-V Touring.

According to the plaintiffs, Honda Sensing is standard equipment on the 2017 CR-Vs, but the technology allegedly makes the SUVs more dangerous due to defects in the software.

Allegedly the systems regularly cause numerous warning messages to intermittently appear, and the CR-Vs fluctuate their highway speeds without warning when adaptive cruise control is set. In addition, drivers are allegedly alerted to hit the brakes immediately although no obstructions are present.
https://www.carcomplaints.com/news/2018 ... cr-v.shtml
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by munemaker » Thu May 31, 2018 11:31 am

munemaker wrote:
Mon May 28, 2018 9:34 am
munemaker wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 1:01 pm
CU LATER -->
Did you ever have your oil analyzed? Did it show gasoline in the oil? Could you please post the results?
I guess you don't want to tell us.

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by Dick D » Mon Jun 25, 2018 3:34 pm

I have owned about a number of Honda's, and have found Honda always takes care of any problems. In fact I just purchased a 2018 Honda XLE and have no concerns.

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by susa » Wed Jun 27, 2018 5:15 am

Blotter Spot Test

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by notmyhand » Wed Jun 27, 2018 6:03 am

Considering a Ridgeline, anyone know if the 2018 or 2019 Ridgeline possibly has the same problem? Having trouble finding anything concrete

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by g2morrow » Wed Jun 27, 2018 8:34 am

So does anyone know if this just with the CRV 1.5T engine or the 1.5T engine in general? cause they have a lot of civics with the 1.5T engine. (including mine)

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by researcher » Wed Jun 27, 2018 10:28 am

munemaker wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 11:31 am
munemaker wrote:
Mon May 28, 2018 9:34 am
munemaker wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 1:01 pm
CU LATER -->
Did you ever have your oil analyzed? Did it show gasoline in the oil? Could you please post the results?
I guess you don't want to tell us.
I find it interesting that CUlater has gone radio silent on his oil analysis results.

Looks like this entire thread is much ado about nothing.

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by CULater » Thu Jun 28, 2018 1:54 pm

researcher wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 10:28 am
munemaker wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 11:31 am
munemaker wrote:
Mon May 28, 2018 9:34 am
munemaker wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 1:01 pm
CU LATER -->
Did you ever have your oil analyzed? Did it show gasoline in the oil? Could you please post the results?
I guess you don't want to tell us.
I find it interesting that CUlater has gone radio silent on his oil analysis results.

Looks like this entire thread is much ado about nothing.
There's plenty of information about how to check into this problem with your own vehicle and I'd do that rather than worrying about mine -- I think it's pretty clear that I have the problem, but not for much longer. I've done what I can to alert current and prospective owners of this vehicle. Good luck all!
May you have the hindsight to know where you've been, The foresight to know where you're going, And the insight to know when you've gone too far. ~ Irish Blessing

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by Jack FFR1846 » Thu Jun 28, 2018 2:05 pm

g2morrow wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 8:34 am
So does anyone know if this just with the CRV 1.5T engine or the 1.5T engine in general? cause they have a lot of civics with the 1.5T engine. (including mine)
1.5T engine with direct injection and cylinder deactivation. I don't know the Honda lineup and what engines are in what cars these days, so can't help further.
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by Carl53 » Thu Jun 28, 2018 3:43 pm

CULater wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 1:54 pm

There's plenty of information about how to check into this problem with your own vehicle and I'd do that rather than worrying about mine -- I think it's pretty clear that I have the problem, but not for much longer. I've done what I can to alert current and prospective owners of this vehicle. Good luck all!
Sounds like CU is getting a company resolution to his problem with a gag order on further discussion.

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by CULater » Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:33 pm

I wish. I'm getting rid of the vehicle.
May you have the hindsight to know where you've been, The foresight to know where you're going, And the insight to know when you've gone too far. ~ Irish Blessing

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by dspencer » Fri Jun 29, 2018 10:18 am

CULater wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 1:54 pm
researcher wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 10:28 am
munemaker wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 11:31 am
munemaker wrote:
Mon May 28, 2018 9:34 am
munemaker wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 1:01 pm
CU LATER -->
Did you ever have your oil analyzed? Did it show gasoline in the oil? Could you please post the results?
I guess you don't want to tell us.
I find it interesting that CUlater has gone radio silent on his oil analysis results.

Looks like this entire thread is much ado about nothing.
There's plenty of information about how to check into this problem with your own vehicle and I'd do that rather than worrying about mine -- I think it's pretty clear that I have the problem, but not for much longer. I've done what I can to alert current and prospective owners of this vehicle. Good luck all!
It seems clear that you have spent a huge amount of time researching the issue, filing complaints, encouraging others to complain and monitoring your own vehicle. You've posted your own experience in this thread in great detail. You've said multiple times that you are going to have your oil analyzed. Now your attitude is basically "don't worry about my car, worry about your own" and you say that you're selling the vehicle. It's totally unclear whether you never did the analysis or whether you did but don't want to share the results.

It's an internet message board and nobody can make you do anything you don't want to do. However, certainly you can appreciate how it's frustrating to people who've spent their time reading post after post for you to basically go silent and then tell people to mind their own business as if you never wanted to share what was going on with your car in the first place.

Have a nice day and may your oil be pure and clean forever.

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munemaker
Posts: 3526
Joined: Sat Jan 18, 2014 6:14 pm

Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by munemaker » Fri Jun 29, 2018 10:31 am

dspencer wrote:
Fri Jun 29, 2018 10:18 am
CULater wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 1:54 pm
researcher wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 10:28 am
munemaker wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 11:31 am
munemaker wrote:
Mon May 28, 2018 9:34 am
I guess you don't want to tell us.
I find it interesting that CUlater has gone radio silent on his oil analysis results.

Looks like this entire thread is much ado about nothing.
There's plenty of information about how to check into this problem with your own vehicle and I'd do that rather than worrying about mine -- I think it's pretty clear that I have the problem, but not for much longer. I've done what I can to alert current and prospective owners of this vehicle. Good luck all!
It seems clear that you have spent a huge amount of time researching the issue, filing complaints, encouraging others to complain and monitoring your own vehicle. You've posted your own experience in this thread in great detail. You've said multiple times that you are going to have your oil analyzed. Now your attitude is basically "don't worry about my car, worry about your own" and you say that you're selling the vehicle. It's totally unclear whether you never did the analysis or whether you did but don't want to share the results.

It's an internet message board and nobody can make you do anything you don't want to do. However, certainly you can appreciate how it's frustrating to people who've spent their time reading post after post for you to basically go silent and then tell people to mind their own business as if you never wanted to share what was going on with your car in the first place.

Have a nice day and may your oil be pure and clean forever.
I agree completely. I would like to buy a new CR*V (probably next year) but this issue will hold me back. Having the full benefit of CUlater's experience would be helpful.

CULater
Posts: 1500
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2016 10:59 am

Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by CULater » Fri Jun 29, 2018 10:53 am

dspencer wrote:
Fri Jun 29, 2018 10:18 am
CULater wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 1:54 pm
researcher wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 10:28 am
munemaker wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 11:31 am
munemaker wrote:
Mon May 28, 2018 9:34 am
I guess you don't want to tell us.
I find it interesting that CUlater has gone radio silent on his oil analysis results.

Looks like this entire thread is much ado about nothing.
There's plenty of information about how to check into this problem with your own vehicle and I'd do that rather than worrying about mine -- I think it's pretty clear that I have the problem, but not for much longer. I've done what I can to alert current and prospective owners of this vehicle. Good luck all!
It seems clear that you have spent a huge amount of time researching the issue, filing complaints, encouraging others to complain and monitoring your own vehicle. You've posted your own experience in this thread in great detail. You've said multiple times that you are going to have your oil analyzed. Now your attitude is basically "don't worry about my car, worry about your own" and you say that you're selling the vehicle. It's totally unclear whether you never did the analysis or whether you did but don't want to share the results.

It's an internet message board and nobody can make you do anything you don't want to do. However, certainly you can appreciate how it's frustrating to people who've spent their time reading post after post for you to basically go silent and then tell people to mind their own business as if you never wanted to share what was going on with your car in the first place.

Have a nice day and may your oil be pure and clean forever.
I decided not to bother spending the money for the oil analysis, since it seemed pretty clear to me already there was fuel accumulating in the oil reservoir and I really didn't need any more "proof." The main purpose of an oil analysis would have been to continue to pursue this with Honda, and I just decided that I was not interested in fighting this battle with them any longer and get rid of the vehicle. I quit posting about it because I'd like to just move on at this point.
May you have the hindsight to know where you've been, The foresight to know where you're going, And the insight to know when you've gone too far. ~ Irish Blessing

smitcat
Posts: 1994
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:51 am

Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by smitcat » Fri Jun 29, 2018 11:08 am

CULater wrote:
Fri Jun 29, 2018 10:53 am
dspencer wrote:
Fri Jun 29, 2018 10:18 am
CULater wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 1:54 pm
researcher wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 10:28 am
munemaker wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 11:31 am

I guess you don't want to tell us.
I find it interesting that CUlater has gone radio silent on his oil analysis results.

Looks like this entire thread is much ado about nothing.
There's plenty of information about how to check into this problem with your own vehicle and I'd do that rather than worrying about mine -- I think it's pretty clear that I have the problem, but not for much longer. I've done what I can to alert current and prospective owners of this vehicle. Good luck all!
It seems clear that you have spent a huge amount of time researching the issue, filing complaints, encouraging others to complain and monitoring your own vehicle. You've posted your own experience in this thread in great detail. You've said multiple times that you are going to have your oil analyzed. Now your attitude is basically "don't worry about my car, worry about your own" and you say that you're selling the vehicle. It's totally unclear whether you never did the analysis or whether you did but don't want to share the results.

It's an internet message board and nobody can make you do anything you don't want to do. However, certainly you can appreciate how it's frustrating to people who've spent their time reading post after post for you to basically go silent and then tell people to mind their own business as if you never wanted to share what was going on with your car in the first place.

Have a nice day and may your oil be pure and clean forever.
I decided not to bother spending the money for the oil analysis, since it seemed pretty clear to me already there was fuel accumulating in the oil reservoir and I really didn't need any more "proof." The main purpose of an oil analysis would have been to continue to pursue this with Honda, and I just decided that I was not interested in fighting this battle with them any longer and get rid of the vehicle. I quit posting about it because I'd like to just move on at this point.
Glad you did not bother with the oil test - I have done plenty of oil analysis at Blackstone labs and there is rarely an advantage to doing these tests unless you have a specific engine goal - proving that you have dilution is not a very effective goal.
Its typically very obvious and you have nothing to gain by proving the obvious.
Good luck with whatever your end vehicle might be.

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dwickenh
Posts: 1402
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Location: Illinois

Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by dwickenh » Fri Jun 29, 2018 11:39 am

smitcat wrote:
Fri Jun 29, 2018 11:08 am
CULater wrote:
Fri Jun 29, 2018 10:53 am
dspencer wrote:
Fri Jun 29, 2018 10:18 am
CULater wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 1:54 pm
researcher wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 10:28 am


I find it interesting that CUlater has gone radio silent on his oil analysis results.

Looks like this entire thread is much ado about nothing.
There's plenty of information about how to check into this problem with your own vehicle and I'd do that rather than worrying about mine -- I think it's pretty clear that I have the problem, but not for much longer. I've done what I can to alert current and prospective owners of this vehicle. Good luck all!
It seems clear that you have spent a huge amount of time researching the issue, filing complaints, encouraging others to complain and monitoring your own vehicle. You've posted your own experience in this thread in great detail. You've said multiple times that you are going to have your oil analyzed. Now your attitude is basically "don't worry about my car, worry about your own" and you say that you're selling the vehicle. It's totally unclear whether you never did the analysis or whether you did but don't want to share the results.

It's an internet message board and nobody can make you do anything you don't want to do. However, certainly you can appreciate how it's frustrating to people who've spent their time reading post after post for you to basically go silent and then tell people to mind their own business as if you never wanted to share what was going on with your car in the first place.

Have a nice day and may your oil be pure and clean forever.
I decided not to bother spending the money for the oil analysis, since it seemed pretty clear to me already there was fuel accumulating in the oil reservoir and I really didn't need any more "proof." The main purpose of an oil analysis would have been to continue to pursue this with Honda, and I just decided that I was not interested in fighting this battle with them any longer and get rid of the vehicle. I quit posting about it because I'd like to just move on at this point.
Glad you did not bother with the oil test - I have done plenty of oil analysis at Blackstone labs and there is rarely an advantage to doing these tests unless you have a specific engine goal - proving that you have dilution is not a very effective goal.
Its typically very obvious and you have nothing to gain by proving the obvious.
Good luck with whatever your end vehicle might be.
As someone who handled catastrophic claims for engine failures, Oil analysis was paramount to determining the cause. It also would show
content of fluids due to overheating and incorrect oil maintenance. I think it would also be important for any class action suit that would
help the bottom line of the attorneys involved.
The market is the most efficient mechanism anywhere in the world for transferring wealth from impatient people to patient people.” | — Warren Buffett

smitcat
Posts: 1994
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:51 am

Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by smitcat » Fri Jun 29, 2018 12:51 pm

dwickenh wrote:
Fri Jun 29, 2018 11:39 am
smitcat wrote:
Fri Jun 29, 2018 11:08 am
CULater wrote:
Fri Jun 29, 2018 10:53 am
dspencer wrote:
Fri Jun 29, 2018 10:18 am
CULater wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 1:54 pm

There's plenty of information about how to check into this problem with your own vehicle and I'd do that rather than worrying about mine -- I think it's pretty clear that I have the problem, but not for much longer. I've done what I can to alert current and prospective owners of this vehicle. Good luck all!
It seems clear that you have spent a huge amount of time researching the issue, filing complaints, encouraging others to complain and monitoring your own vehicle. You've posted your own experience in this thread in great detail. You've said multiple times that you are going to have your oil analyzed. Now your attitude is basically "don't worry about my car, worry about your own" and you say that you're selling the vehicle. It's totally unclear whether you never did the analysis or whether you did but don't want to share the results.

It's an internet message board and nobody can make you do anything you don't want to do. However, certainly you can appreciate how it's frustrating to people who've spent their time reading post after post for you to basically go silent and then tell people to mind their own business as if you never wanted to share what was going on with your car in the first place.

Have a nice day and may your oil be pure and clean forever.
I decided not to bother spending the money for the oil analysis, since it seemed pretty clear to me already there was fuel accumulating in the oil reservoir and I really didn't need any more "proof." The main purpose of an oil analysis would have been to continue to pursue this with Honda, and I just decided that I was not interested in fighting this battle with them any longer and get rid of the vehicle. I quit posting about it because I'd like to just move on at this point.
Glad you did not bother with the oil test - I have done plenty of oil analysis at Blackstone labs and there is rarely an advantage to doing these tests unless you have a specific engine goal - proving that you have dilution is not a very effective goal.
Its typically very obvious and you have nothing to gain by proving the obvious.
Good luck with whatever your end vehicle might be.
As someone who handled catastrophic claims for engine failures, Oil analysis was paramount to determining the cause. It also would show
content of fluids due to overheating and incorrect oil maintenance. I think it would also be important for any class action suit that would
help the bottom line of the attorneys involved.
Disclosure - I believe these Honda engines to be a problem and that Honda should rectify the problems in total. What I think has no value with Honda and I feel for these owners who have problematic engines. IMHO getting Honda to rectify the problem will not be influenced by a few random
oil tests that have no chain of possession.

"As someone who handled catastrophic claims for engine failures,"
And when you have engine failure you would need to have these all in place as well:
- confirmation oil was from said engine
- comfirmation oil sample was taken correctly
- agreement on testing lab prior to submitting sample
- an agreed upon person to read the results
- a reason to believe that the reciever of the oil sample data will comply when the get the test

I am guessing that yuo have seen the problems I listed from reading test results and know how hard they are to interpret in some cases.
Diluted lube oil is not likely doing harm to the engine therefore no higher thna typical metals or conaminants.
The new CRV handbook likely says to monitor and adjust oil level at select intervals - much less than most folks do.

So the catch 22 is that the engine is a problem but if 'maintained' properly per the handbook it will likely never manifest itself with a failure.
- if the owner is on top of this no failure
- if the owner is not on top of this then he/she is complicitus in the failure

CULater
Posts: 1500
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2016 10:59 am

Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by CULater » Fri Jun 29, 2018 1:03 pm

smitcat - I'm glad you are pointing out how snaggy it could get trying to use the oil analysis results to get anywhere with Honda, even if it showed gas dilution. I think it's pretty naive to think that you can just waltz into the dealer with your Blackstone report and they'll snap right to doing something. They'll just be more obfuscation and denial, until corporate acknowledges the issue to the dealerships, and I just don't see that happening any time soon. Maybe if there's a class action, I can join as a former owner and document my financial losses from having to trade off a one-year old vehicle and take a big hit on depreciation. I'll dream about it....
May you have the hindsight to know where you've been, The foresight to know where you're going, And the insight to know when you've gone too far. ~ Irish Blessing

User avatar
dwickenh
Posts: 1402
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2015 9:45 pm
Location: Illinois

Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by dwickenh » Fri Jun 29, 2018 2:06 pm

smitcat wrote:
Fri Jun 29, 2018 12:51 pm
dwickenh wrote:
Fri Jun 29, 2018 11:39 am
smitcat wrote:
Fri Jun 29, 2018 11:08 am
CULater wrote:
Fri Jun 29, 2018 10:53 am
dspencer wrote:
Fri Jun 29, 2018 10:18 am


It seems clear that you have spent a huge amount of time researching the issue, filing complaints, encouraging others to complain and monitoring your own vehicle. You've posted your own experience in this thread in great detail. You've said multiple times that you are going to have your oil analyzed. Now your attitude is basically "don't worry about my car, worry about your own" and you say that you're selling the vehicle. It's totally unclear whether you never did the analysis or whether you did but don't want to share the results.

It's an internet message board and nobody can make you do anything you don't want to do. However, certainly you can appreciate how it's frustrating to people who've spent their time reading post after post for you to basically go silent and then tell people to mind their own business as if you never wanted to share what was going on with your car in the first place.

Have a nice day and may your oil be pure and clean forever.
I decided not to bother spending the money for the oil analysis, since it seemed pretty clear to me already there was fuel accumulating in the oil reservoir and I really didn't need any more "proof." The main purpose of an oil analysis would have been to continue to pursue this with Honda, and I just decided that I was not interested in fighting this battle with them any longer and get rid of the vehicle. I quit posting about it because I'd like to just move on at this point.
Glad you did not bother with the oil test - I have done plenty of oil analysis at Blackstone labs and there is rarely an advantage to doing these tests unless you have a specific engine goal - proving that you have dilution is not a very effective goal.
Its typically very obvious and you have nothing to gain by proving the obvious.
Good luck with whatever your end vehicle might be.
As someone who handled catastrophic claims for engine failures, Oil analysis was paramount to determining the cause. It also would show
content of fluids due to overheating and incorrect oil maintenance. I think it would also be important for any class action suit that would
help the bottom line of the attorneys involved.
Disclosure - I believe these Honda engines to be a problem and that Honda should rectify the problems in total. What I think has no value with Honda and I feel for these owners who have problematic engines. IMHO getting Honda to rectify the problem will not be influenced by a few random
oil tests that have no chain of possession.

"As someone who handled catastrophic claims for engine failures,"
And when you have engine failure you would need to have these all in place as well:
- confirmation oil was from said engine
- comfirmation oil sample was taken correctly
- agreement on testing lab prior to submitting sample
- an agreed upon person to read the results
- a reason to believe that the reciever of the oil sample data will comply when the get the test

I am guessing that yuo have seen the problems I listed from reading test results and know how hard they are to interpret in some cases.
Diluted lube oil is not likely doing harm to the engine therefore no higher thna typical metals or conaminants.
The new CRV handbook likely says to monitor and adjust oil level at select intervals - much less than most folks do.

So the catch 22 is that the engine is a problem but if 'maintained' properly per the handbook it will likely never manifest itself with a failure.
- if the owner is on top of this no failure
- if the owner is not on top of this then he/she is complicitus in the failure
You forgot to mention the 400.00 to 900.00 for the test which is certified by the testing facility. The attorney will find this type of proof
to be complimentary to the case. Confirmation(chain of custody) is obviously necessary but not difficult. As for your pessimism towards
the manufacturer to correct known problems, that is why arbitration and legal assistance clauses are part of many warranties.

I wish the best for CuLater on his engine and next purchase.

Dan
The market is the most efficient mechanism anywhere in the world for transferring wealth from impatient people to patient people.” | — Warren Buffett

dspencer
Posts: 147
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2016 11:29 am

Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by dspencer » Fri Jun 29, 2018 2:45 pm

CULater wrote:
Fri Jun 29, 2018 10:53 am
dspencer wrote:
Fri Jun 29, 2018 10:18 am


It seems clear that you have spent a huge amount of time researching the issue, filing complaints, encouraging others to complain and monitoring your own vehicle. You've posted your own experience in this thread in great detail. You've said multiple times that you are going to have your oil analyzed. Now your attitude is basically "don't worry about my car, worry about your own" and you say that you're selling the vehicle. It's totally unclear whether you never did the analysis or whether you did but don't want to share the results.

It's an internet message board and nobody can make you do anything you don't want to do. However, certainly you can appreciate how it's frustrating to people who've spent their time reading post after post for you to basically go silent and then tell people to mind their own business as if you never wanted to share what was going on with your car in the first place.

Have a nice day and may your oil be pure and clean forever.
I decided not to bother spending the money for the oil analysis, since it seemed pretty clear to me already there was fuel accumulating in the oil reservoir and I really didn't need any more "proof." The main purpose of an oil analysis would have been to continue to pursue this with Honda, and I just decided that I was not interested in fighting this battle with them any longer and get rid of the vehicle. I quit posting about it because I'd like to just move on at this point.
Thanks, I appreciate the update. I certainly understand the logic of not bothering. The plus side of the problem not being a full blown immediate crisis that affects every vehicle is that the resale values are probably relatively unaffected. I kept my last car for 11 years and was hoping to get at least 8 out of my CRV. This issue certainly makes me wonder if I'm better off unloading the car after 3-5 years and hoping any ill effects don't show up before then.

CULater
Posts: 1500
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2016 10:59 am

Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by CULater » Fri Jun 29, 2018 2:52 pm

I was figuring to unload it before the warranty ran out because of concern the fuel dilution would gradually cause engine damage. Had lost confidence in the theory of keeping a Honda for 10+ years (my last one was for 15 years). So, it was a question of putting up with it for another couple of years vs. getting out now and I eventually decided that the nuisance of dealing with it to get a couple more years didn't add up. Hoping to live with it long enough to check out the 2019 RAV4 in a few months but might bail sooner if something else comes up on my radar sooner.
May you have the hindsight to know where you've been, The foresight to know where you're going, And the insight to know when you've gone too far. ~ Irish Blessing

smitcat
Posts: 1994
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:51 am

Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by smitcat » Fri Jun 29, 2018 2:53 pm

dwickenh wrote:
Fri Jun 29, 2018 2:06 pm
smitcat wrote:
Fri Jun 29, 2018 12:51 pm
dwickenh wrote:
Fri Jun 29, 2018 11:39 am
smitcat wrote:
Fri Jun 29, 2018 11:08 am
CULater wrote:
Fri Jun 29, 2018 10:53 am

I decided not to bother spending the money for the oil analysis, since it seemed pretty clear to me already there was fuel accumulating in the oil reservoir and I really didn't need any more "proof." The main purpose of an oil analysis would have been to continue to pursue this with Honda, and I just decided that I was not interested in fighting this battle with them any longer and get rid of the vehicle. I quit posting about it because I'd like to just move on at this point.
Glad you did not bother with the oil test - I have done plenty of oil analysis at Blackstone labs and there is rarely an advantage to doing these tests unless you have a specific engine goal - proving that you have dilution is not a very effective goal.
Its typically very obvious and you have nothing to gain by proving the obvious.
Good luck with whatever your end vehicle might be.
As someone who handled catastrophic claims for engine failures, Oil analysis was paramount to determining the cause. It also would show
content of fluids due to overheating and incorrect oil maintenance. I think it would also be important for any class action suit that would
help the bottom line of the attorneys involved.
Disclosure - I believe these Honda engines to be a problem and that Honda should rectify the problems in total. What I think has no value with Honda and I feel for these owners who have problematic engines. IMHO getting Honda to rectify the problem will not be influenced by a few random
oil tests that have no chain of possession.

"As someone who handled catastrophic claims for engine failures,"
And when you have engine failure you would need to have these all in place as well:
- confirmation oil was from said engine
- comfirmation oil sample was taken correctly
- agreement on testing lab prior to submitting sample
- an agreed upon person to read the results
- a reason to believe that the reciever of the oil sample data will comply when the get the test

I am guessing that yuo have seen the problems I listed from reading test results and know how hard they are to interpret in some cases.
Diluted lube oil is not likely doing harm to the engine therefore no higher thna typical metals or conaminants.
The new CRV handbook likely says to monitor and adjust oil level at select intervals - much less than most folks do.

So the catch 22 is that the engine is a problem but if 'maintained' properly per the handbook it will likely never manifest itself with a failure.
- if the owner is on top of this no failure
- if the owner is not on top of this then he/she is complicitus in the failure
You forgot to mention the 400.00 to 900.00 for the test which is certified by the testing facility. The attorney will find this type of proof
to be complimentary to the case. Confirmation(chain of custody) is obviously necessary but not difficult. As for your pessimism towards
the manufacturer to correct known problems, that is why arbitration and legal assistance clauses are part of many warranties.

I wish the best for CuLater on his engine and next purchase.

Dan
Yes the testing costs come into play but what they yield will not support a claim unless the oil dilution is deemed to adversely affect the purchased item under normal use - hence the handbook and checking and adjusting oil schedule.
Since proving oil dilution will not win a case in itself and testing and legal is quite expensive I thought CuLater had made a good choice with what his options were.
Pursuing Honda with the class action and perhaps some political assisstnace may yield some results eventually with much less time and money.
In the mantime Honda gets a really large black eye which they seem to believe is worthwhile trade - I believe they are making a huge mistake.

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munemaker
Posts: 3526
Joined: Sat Jan 18, 2014 6:14 pm

Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by munemaker » Fri Jun 29, 2018 2:57 pm

smitcat wrote:
Fri Jun 29, 2018 12:51 pm

Diluted lube oil is not likely doing harm to the engine therefore no higher thna typical metals or conaminants.
...
So the catch 22 is that the engine is a problem but if 'maintained' properly per the handbook it will likely never manifest itself with a failure.
- if the owner is on top of this no failure
- if the owner is not on top of this then he/she is complicitus in the failure
On what basis do you make these statements?

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