My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

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researcher
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by researcher »

CULater wrote: Thu Mar 15, 2018 3:33 pm My hunch is that most people don't ever bother to check their oil level and certainly don't sniff the dipstick...
If we weren't such dodos there would probably be more people reporting on stuff like this.
Now, all of you sleepwalkers who own 2017-18 CRVs need to get yourself out there and pull that dipstick...
I'm pretty sure this is a real issue and I'm pretty sure a lot of people cruising around in their new CRVs will never know about it until something bad happens, and then it will get blamed on something else.
This is 100% correct.

The vast majority of new car owners do not check their fluid levels.
When the maintenance minder light comes on, they simply take it to the dealership, and trust them to perform the required maintenance.
I wouldn't be surprised if most CR-V owners didn't know how to pop their hoods or locate the engine oil dipstick.

This is all the more reason why it is important for you and others to get the word out about this issue.
And all the more reason why people like "dwickenh" shouldn't discourage such posts.
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by BeachPerson »

I have a 2013 Accord and test drove a CRV today.

I want to get a car with all the latest safety features.
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by Wakefield1 »

Even old style cars with carburetors could get fuel contamination of their oil,short trips in cold weather not long/far enough to fully warm up the engine,bad thermostat (too cool or stuck open) carburetor too rich or the choke staying on too long
setting the choke or carburetor too rich to cover up an ignition problem
do the problem cars have fuel injectors that are leaking fuel while the cars are not running? (parked)
I think I remember a car with a bad fuel pump that leaked fuel directly into the crankcase (one of the old fashioned ones with a mechanical arm that followed a cam that powered the pump with the pump mounted on the engine
new cars mostly have electric fuel pumps and they can be high pressure
run a lawn mower with the choke on all of the time and it will get fuel smelling oil
a small amount of oil dilution in the fuel might be typical of oil drained from a car after a winter season
also if the "pcv" (positive crankcase ventilation system) isn't working efficiently it would contribute to buildup of fuel condensate in the oil or even of moisture
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by wrongfunds »

Technically, to fix this problem, all Honda has to do is to change some of the parameters in the engine computer to reduce the injected fuel and worse, put a different thermostat which will allow the engine to come to operating temperature quicker.

But still to do this on all the CR-V would be expensive for Honda and they will drag their feet before being forced to do so. In the long run, if this is a real problem, they have no choice.
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by whodidntante »

researcher wrote: Thu Mar 15, 2018 2:04 pm
CULater wrote: Thu Mar 15, 2018 1:38 pm Nevertheless, they took it into the service area to have a look, and I'm now back at home waiting to hear that I can get picked up and go back to get the vehicle. I will be amazed if I hear anything from them other than "everything looks OK," but I'll try to keep an open mind. I'll be sure to report back to thread readers what happens.
You need to have them document that the dipstick shows the crankcase to be overfilled.

You should also require they measure the amount of oil drained, insisting that you be present during the process.
I don't see why the shop would agree to any of that. Particularly if you insist.
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by CULater »

Finally called the dealership to find out status of CRV, since they've had it all day and no word. Pretty much as I thought. Said they talked to "Honda Tech" about it, and they are going to do an oil change and have me "keep an eye on it." Didn't ask if it was a complimentary change, but hope so. That's pretty much the most I expected out of Honda on this. I figure they will overfill the thing like they usually do, so I'll have to take it to my local mechanic and ask him to drain some of the oil down to the overfill marker so I can keep accurate track of how quickly the fluid level rises.

My hunch is that it won't take long before the fluid level rises and the gas smell is back, so I'll be heading right back for more oil changes until I can get rid of this dog. Honda ain't gonna do nuttin'. So much for maintaining a sense of optimism eh? Wonder how much $$ I'm going to lose on this thing when I get rid of it?
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by sunny_socal »

wrongfunds wrote: Thu Mar 15, 2018 4:31 pm Technically, to fix this problem, all Honda has to do is to change some of the parameters in the engine computer to reduce the injected fuel and worse, put a different thermostat which will allow the engine to come to operating temperature quicker.

But still to do this on all the CR-V would be expensive for Honda and they will drag their feet before being forced to do so. In the long run, if this is a real problem, they have no choice.
Yeah, and then the car probably won't pass some emissions test with those mods.
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by CULater »

In some of the linked forum discussions of the issue, a few posters suggested that switching to higher-octane fuel than the regular grade recommended octane might help mitigate the oil dilution problem. The reasoning given is that turbo engines are more prone to engine knock (pre-ignition) and that Honda has programmed the small turbo engine to spray extra fuel into the combustion chambers whenever fuel knock is sensed. This can cause more fuel to get by the piston rings and into the oil crankcase. The argument is that premium fuel ameliorates engine knock, and consequently less extra fuel will be sprayed into the combustion chambers.

I'm wondering if there is something to this argument. I'd be willing to try running premium fuel for awhile to see if it has any apparent benefit re: the oil dilution problem. The higher cost is inconsequential to me if it helps. The main concern I'd have is whether running higher octane than is recommended for the vehicle might itself cause problems. What do you think of this idea?
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by wrongfunds »

I know cars and have never heard any manufacturer NOT requiring premium fuel for a turbo charged engine. So the idea does make sense. Using higher octane does hurt you and quite a lot if you are in some of the states such as MD as the price differential has been seen as high as 60 cents :-( But be assured. the car will not be hurt. I wonder if Honda rightfully decided that for that market segment, having premium fuel requirement would be a non-starter. All of their Acura models have been designated as premium required even though most of the engines are shared between the Honda line.
Yeah, and then the car probably won't pass some emissions test with those mods.
No, these mods will NOT break the emission requirement but your guess vs my guess has the same validity today.
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by Chip »

wrongfunds wrote: Fri Mar 16, 2018 7:54 am I know cars and have never heard any manufacturer NOT requiring premium fuel for a turbo charged engine.
News release about the 2017 Civic, direct from Honda:
In LX, EX and EX-L Navi models which are designed to operate on regular unleaded fuel, the 1.5-liter 16-valve DOHC direct-injected turbocharged powerplant is rated at 174 horsepower at 5,500 (6MT) or 6,000 (CVT) rpm. Torque output is set at 162 lb-ft. between 1,700 and 5,500 rpm when equipped with the CVT. When equipped with a 6-speed manual transmission (LX) the torque rating increases to 167 lb-ft.
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by ShenziNation »

CULater wrote: Thu Mar 15, 2018 5:34 pm Finally called the dealership to find out status of CRV, since they've had it all day and no word. Pretty much as I thought. Said they talked to "Honda Tech" about it, and they are going to do an oil change and have me "keep an eye on it." Didn't ask if it was a complimentary change, but hope so. That's pretty much the most I expected out of Honda on this. I figure they will overfill the thing like they usually do, so I'll have to take it to my local mechanic and ask him to drain some of the oil down to the overfill marker so I can keep accurate track of how quickly the fluid level rises.

My hunch is that it won't take long before the fluid level rises and the gas smell is back, so I'll be heading right back for more oil changes until I can get rid of this dog. Honda ain't gonna do nuttin'. So much for maintaining a sense of optimism eh? Wonder how much $$ I'm going to lose on this thing when I get rid of it?
If they don't fix it on 3 attempts, invoke Lemon Law, get your money back, and head off to another manufacturer.

I'm a Honda owner, since 1998. Last year had to get a new car after my 11 yo Accord was written off due to accident repair costs.

Looked at the CRV, wasn't thrilled about CVT technology, not a fan of that, especially since Nissan's CVTs get a lot of issues. Not a fan of turbos on everyday cars, that's for performance rides IMHO. Clearly was left with Toyota and Mazda. Went with a pre-owned RAV4 which has factory warranty, 2.4L engine, no turbo or CVT gimmickry.
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by Yooper16 »

wrongfunds wrote: Fri Mar 16, 2018 7:54 am I know cars and have never heard any manufacturer NOT requiring premium fuel for a turbo charged engine.
Our Transit van with turbo eco-boost, owners manual calls for 87 octane.

The Transit forum does have a lot of posting regarding this topic. From reading there it seems that DI provides for greater power, better mileage and lower emissions in part by spraying a smaller amount of fuel into the cylinder. Part of what gas does is to wash the valves before ignition.

The general rec is to use a synthetic oil as it is not broken down as fast from vapors/etc that get into it. short drives in cool/cold weather are not good as the car needs to get up to full operating temp to help reduce this. Also to make certain that the computer code, that runs the engine, is up to date.

They also suggest doing an Italian tune-up---- driving bit "hard" on the xpressway. For those of us older, you undoubtedly recall the days when your dad would purposefully take the family for a drive. Part of that was to "blow-off' the carbon buildup. Same issue 50 years ago, just different technology.
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by UpperNwGuy »

ShenziNation wrote: Fri Mar 16, 2018 8:23 am Looked at the CRV, wasn't thrilled about CVT technology, not a fan of that, especially since Nissan's CVTs get a lot of issues. Not a fan of turbos on everyday cars, that's for performance rides IMHO. Clearly was left with Toyota and Mazda. Went with a pre-owned RAV4 which has factory warranty, 2.4L engine, no turbo or CVT gimmickry.
It's getting harder and harder to avoid CVT technology. Here's a list of cars that currently have it. Not sure how current or how accurate the list it. For what it's worth, I've heard that Honda's CVT is one of the better ones.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_a ... nsmissions
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by Jack FFR1846 »

CULater wrote: Fri Mar 16, 2018 12:18 am In some of the linked forum discussions of the issue, a few posters suggested that switching to higher-octane fuel than the regular grade recommended octane might help mitigate the oil dilution problem. The reasoning given is that turbo engines are more prone to engine knock (pre-ignition) and that Honda has programmed the small turbo engine to spray extra fuel into the combustion chambers whenever fuel knock is sensed. This can cause more fuel to get by the piston rings and into the oil crankcase. The argument is that premium fuel ameliorates engine knock, and consequently less extra fuel will be sprayed into the combustion chambers.

I'm wondering if there is something to this argument. I'd be willing to try running premium fuel for awhile to see if it has any apparent benefit re: the oil dilution problem. The higher cost is inconsequential to me if it helps. The main concern I'd have is whether running higher octane than is recommended for the vehicle might itself cause problems. What do you think of this idea?
This is something you could easily test. Measure exactly how much oil went in and came out in an oil change. Switch to premium. Next oil change, measure again. If it solves the problem, then perhaps it's worth doing. If it doesn't, back to regular.
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by CULater »

Reading the provisions of the Lemon Law in my state, it appears that it can be invoked if 3 or more attempts have been made to repair a "substantial nonconformity", which is defined as:
A nonconformity substantially impairs a motor vehicle if the nonconformity renders the motor vehicle unfit, unreliable, or unsafe for warranted or ordinary use, or if it significantly diminishes the value of the motor vehicle.
I can already anticipate that there might be some stickiness with Honda over whether the problem meets this definition. I can already smell a lawyer and a protracted dispute. Also, I don't know if the consumer ends up paying the lawyer out-of-pocket.
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by TLC1957 »

CULater wrote: Fri Mar 16, 2018 11:11 am Reading the provisions of the Lemon Law in my state, it appears that it can be invoked if 3 or more attempts have been made to repair a "substantial nonconformity", which is defined as:
A nonconformity substantially impairs a motor vehicle if the nonconformity renders the motor vehicle unfit, unreliable, or unsafe for warranted or ordinary use, or if it significantly diminishes the value of the motor vehicle.
I can already anticipate that there might be some stickiness with Honda over whether the problem meets this definition. I can already smell a lawyer and a protracted dispute. Also, I don't know if the consumer ends up paying the lawyer out-of-pocket.
CU do you think your problem would not be covered by the Honda 5 year power train warranty if the engine had a problem? I would think as long as you did the required oil changes as per the maintenance minder and had documentation, you should be covered.
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by wrongfunds »

People who buy brand new Honda/Toyota expect their vehicle to go at least 200K if not more in 15+ years. If the design problems are going to manifest itself (and most of the time they will) AFTER the warranty period, the power train warranty of 5/60 is not going to help. The issue raised here would cause abnormal and severe wear on the internal engine components but still will not likely show up as major engine issue well past the 60K miles.

Both Hondas and Toyota had quite a few design/manufacturing issues on many of their models if you back 20 odd years. For example, V6 transmission on Honda or porous engine blocks on Civic or head gasket/head bolts on Toyota or severe frame rust on Toyota trucks. These were all design problems and manifested itself for majority of the affected vehicles but only after regular power train warranty was already expired.

My anecdotal evidence suggests that Toyota seems to be better in handling the chronic design problems than Honda.
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by CULater »

Finally got the CRV back from the dealer in Phoenix. When I picked up the vehicle I told the service person that I wanted documentation of the following:

- service issue and details of the service order
- actions taken and results
- names of personnel involved @dealer and contact info
- recommended followup and proposed remedies if problem recurs

I indicated that I was preparing a dossier to support a possible Lemon Law claim or future class action.

The service tech told me that the only basis for a Lemon Law claim was a documented problem, but no problem was found. Stated there was no gas in the oil when it was drained; didn't say how they determined that. I said I wondered what would cause the volume in the crankcase to grow if something wasn't getting into the crankcase. I also stated that the fact that Honda doesn't report a problem doesn't mean there isn't one and that I would be pursuing this matter independently.

He said they contacted Honda America Technical Services and were told there were no documented cases of the oil dilution issues in the U.S. on file. Only a couple of cases in China (stifling my laughs). I found this interesting since there are several documented NHTSA complaints in the U.S. and some of them indicated that they were told by their Honda dealer that the issue they were experiencing was due to gas in oil-- so I wonder why that wouldn't be in the database somewhere.

I can sorta see where this is going, right? Disappointingly, Honda might not be working on a fix for U.S. owners if they are saying there isn't even a problem. It's pretty clear to me that I may need to go to someone outside of Honda to obtain independent evidence that there is a problem; such as having an independent oil analysis.

They changed the oil and oil filter and said they put the level right at the top mark on the dipstick, which I'll check as soon as vehicle cools down from driving it home. I was told to come back after 500 miles to have oil level checked to see if it has changed. I'll be checking it myself more frequently than that. I find it somewhat paradoxical that they state there is no problem and yet they want me to come back in 500 miles to check the oil level to see if there is a problem -- but maybe I'm overthinking it.

The service information I was provided by the dealer seems to cover the items I wanted, and I have a service number on file with Honda to facilitate followup. So, the process begins. My plan is to keep tabs on the oil level and if it rises above the full indicator mark sufficiently, I'll get an independent oil analysis done before taking it back into Honda service. Perhaps someone who is familiar with this can suggest how and where to do that.

Even though my "fishy" antenna went up when I was dealing with the Honda service people, as things go forward, I'm trying to remain calm and be hopeful that the oil level will remain stable and I won't smell gas when I sniff the dipstick. Nothing would please me more and I'll be eager to retract everything I've said about this oil dilution issue if that turns out to be the case. If it doesn't I plan to become a major nuisance to Honda.
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by munemaker »

CULater wrote: Fri Mar 16, 2018 2:40 pm Finally got the CRV back from the dealer in Phoenix. When I picked up the vehicle I told the service person that I wanted documentation of the following:

- service issue and details of the service order
- actions taken and results
- names of personnel involved @dealer and contact info
- recommended followup and proposed remedies if problem recurs

I indicated that I was preparing a dossier to support a possible Lemon Law claim or future class action.

The service tech told me that the only basis for a Lemon Law claim was a documented problem, but no problem was found. Stated there was no gas in the oil when it was drained; didn't say how they determined that. I said I wondered what would cause the volume in the crankcase to grow if something wasn't getting into the crankcase. I also stated that the fact that Honda doesn't report a problem doesn't mean there isn't one and that I would be pursuing this matter independently.

He said they contacted Honda America Technical Services and were told there were no documented cases of the oil dilution issues in the U.S. on file. Only a couple of cases in China (stifling my laughs). I found this interesting since there are several documented NHTSA complaints in the U.S. and some of them indicated that they were told by their Honda dealer that the issue they were experiencing was due to gas in oil-- so I wonder why that wouldn't be in the database somewhere.

I can sorta see where this is going, right? Disappointingly, Honda might not be working on a fix for U.S. owners if they are saying there isn't even a problem. It's pretty clear to me that I may need to go to someone outside of Honda to obtain independent evidence that there is a problem; such as having an independent oil analysis.

They changed the oil and oil filter and said they put the level right at the top mark on the dipstick, which I'll check as soon as vehicle cools down from driving it home. I was told to come back after 500 miles to have oil level checked to see if it has changed. I'll be checking it myself more frequently than that. I find it somewhat paradoxical that they state there is no problem and yet they want me to come back in 500 miles to check the oil level to see if there is a problem -- but maybe I'm overthinking it.

The service information I was provided by the dealer seems to cover the items I wanted, and I have a service number on file with Honda to facilitate followup. So, the process begins. My plan is to keep tabs on the oil level and if it rises above the full indicator mark sufficiently, I'll get an independent oil analysis done before taking it back into Honda service. Perhaps someone who is familiar with this can suggest how and where to do that.

Even though my "fishy" antenna went up when I was dealing with the Honda service people, as things go forward, I'm trying to remain calm and be hopeful that the oil level will remain stable and I won't smell gas when I sniff the dipstick. Nothing would please me more and I'll be eager to retract everything I've said about this oil dilution issue if that turns out to be the case. If it doesn't I plan to become a major nuisance to Honda.
You could send a used oil sample away for analysis to see if there is any gasoline in the engine oil. It doesn't cost much and it doesn't take long. That's what I would do. Then you would have proof that there is or is not a problem.
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by invst65 »

CULater wrote: Fri Mar 16, 2018 2:40 pm Nothing would please me more and I'll be eager to retract everything I've said about this oil dilution issue if that turns out to be the case.
Our CRV is still a newborn infant, only 15 days old, so do be sure to let us know how it plays out.
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by mrc »

munemaker wrote: Fri Mar 16, 2018 4:32 pm You could send a used oil sample away for analysis to see if there is any gasoline in the engine oil. It doesn't cost much and it doesn't take long. That's what I would do. Then you would have proof that there is or is not a problem.
I have used Blackstone labs for oil analysis for years. They'll send you free collection bottle/kit, you return it, and they'll email a (PDF) report that you can use for documentation. On the submission slip, be sure to note your concerns about excess fuel.
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by CULater »

Here's a post on a Facebook CRV group by a guy that could have been me. Gives you an idea of how this is going down for lots of people having the problem. But I guess there isn't a problem because Honda told me so!

Image
Oil dilution report - I first have my oil change at 4500 miles about 4 weeks ago. I did not check the oil level. After reading so many complaints about oil dilution, I decided to check my oil level 3 days ago at 5400 miles. As you can see in the pictures, the oil level is above the orange dip stick about 4mm. I promptly phoned the dealership and they asked me to bring the car the next day (yesterday). After keeping the car for 2 hours, the service advisor told me that there was no gas in the oil. You can refer to their explanation in the Work Order. He also gave me a sample from oil drained. The dealer change the oil. New oil level now is at the lower dot. I told him that I will monitor the oil level every week and if the oil level higher than the lower dot I will bring back the car. I hope I dont have to bring her back
By way of explanation, the overfill mark is the little hole near the top of the orange part of the dipstick. The oil level should not be higher than that and certainly not completely over the orange part as this one is.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1369291403116406/
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by inbox788 »

I wondered how they tested for fuel in the oil. Here's a video about diesel engine with fuel in oil. I'm not sure what an injector is, but they diagnose an injector problem with fuel dye. Would putting some of this stuff in a CRV fuel filter and checking the dipstick with UV light do the trick?

Adding dye:
https://youtu.be/iG0aG5BcEUg?t=244

Same video, fast forward to checking leak:
https://youtu.be/iG0aG5BcEUg?t=330
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by CULater »

And another post on the Facebook group that caught my eye. How come Honda tells me it has no documented reports of the oil dilution issue in the U.S.? There are posts like this all over the place. They wouldn't lie would they?
Just joined today after my 2017 CRV engine blew up due to oil and gas combining. I live in Wisconsin. I am reading all of the threads and now know this has been a problem for quite some time. So upset. Honda is going to replace a part of the motor and will require me to change oil every 500 miles. That is not a resolution to the problem!!
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by CULater »

inbox788 wrote: Fri Mar 16, 2018 8:56 pm I wondered how they tested for fuel in the oil. Here's a video about diesel engine with fuel in oil. I'm not sure what an injector is, but they diagnose an injector problem with fuel dye. Would putting some of this stuff in a CRV fuel filter and checking the dipstick with UV light do the trick?

Adding dye:
https://youtu.be/iG0aG5BcEUg?t=244

Same video, fast forward to checking leak:
https://youtu.be/iG0aG5BcEUg?t=330
I hate to be a pessimist, but I don't really believe they actually did test for fuel in the oil. Service guy was non-responsive when I asked how they do that. I'll bet that's what they're being instructed to say by Honda, along with the line that there have only been a "couple of cases reported in China." That would be a lie, even if there were no cases in the U.S. since there seem to be hundreds of reports from Canada. When the fluid level rises in the crankcase, it has to be either gas or coolant and I don't think it's coolant. Smells like gas to me. And I'm in the U.S., not China.
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by CurlyDave »

Just a thought here.

Does Honda, or anyone aftermarket, offer an engine block heater for cold climates?

Using one would certainly lead to faster warm-up and less gas in the oil.
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by munemaker »

One test is worth a thousand experts opinions. Have an oil sample tested ASAP.
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by ClevrChico »

munemaker wrote: Sat Mar 17, 2018 6:27 am One test is worth a thousand experts opinions. Have an oil sample tested ASAP.
+1 to this.

As a Honda owner, I've been very impressed how Honda Corporate has handled multiple recalls on my car. The local dealer experience is less than impressive. If you get a service advisor/manager that is sharp and knowledgeable, things go perfectly. The odds for me on that are one in three.

I wouldn't expect a dealer to be helpful at all until corporate has issued a recall or service bulletin. A mail in oil analysis that you can do is inexpensive and will give you evidence to put pressure on corporate to act on your behalf.

I had a car with oil dilution issues twenty five years ago, and it caused constant problems and breakdowns, not fun.
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by Shallowpockets »

To OP.
Was your original problem actually a problem for you insofar as operation of the vehicle? Or is this something that you dug up on the Internet and now it has morphed into a problem?
I watched the video and it seemed reasonable in its explanation.
We Have two Hondas for ten years in Colorado. One driven shorter mileage around town. The other some longer road trips. Honda Element and Honda CRV. We have not noted any problems. I suppose I could go out and check my dipstick and then start to wonder and be concerned. But, I will not.
This thread has changec into a criticism of Honda and its service and warranty.

This is basically a lubrication issue affecting wear and tear on the engine. In any weather, do you warm up your car at idle or do you start driving right away? It is not recommended to let cars sit at idle speed to warm up. This seems like it would increase the amount of non burned gasoline that could wash down the cylinder walls with the richer mixture.
I am thinking that this is not really an issue in a practical sense.
In light of your feelings about it and perhaps the desire to sell the car, one would think that you would not want to pawn off what you feel is a defective car onto an unsuspecting buyer.
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by Dilbydog »

mrc wrote: Fri Mar 16, 2018 5:25 pm
munemaker wrote: Fri Mar 16, 2018 4:32 pm You could send a used oil sample away for analysis to see if there is any gasoline in the engine oil. It doesn't cost much and it doesn't take long. That's what I would do. Then you would have proof that there is or is not a problem.
I have used Blackstone labs for oil analysis for years. They'll send you free collection bottle/kit, you return it, and they'll email a (PDF) report that you can use for documentation. On the submission slip, be sure to note your concerns about excess fuel.
+1 on this. I own two vehicles with direct injection and turbocharging. There has never been a measurable amount of fuel in the oil. Doesn’t matter if I put 5400 miles on the oil in 12months or 15,000. Fuel in oil is a serious concern. The analysis will give you fuel dulition numbers as well as metal wear numbers. You can see if your bearings, rings, turbo are wearing poorly and you have a record of how much fuel is actually in your oil. They will also tell you how the dilution has effected the viscosity and flash point of the oil. All of this information will be useful should you suffer premature engine failure.

I believe they sell a small pump we’re you can extract a sample from the dipstick tube, in lieu of having to pull the drain plug.
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by researcher »

Shallowpockets wrote: Sat Mar 17, 2018 8:10 am I am thinking that this is not really an issue in a practical sense.
And your thinking would be wrong.

A few minutes of research provides a clear indication that an issue exists with the 1.5l engine in the CRV...
- 350K vehicles recalled in China, along with a stop-sale order
- Many owners in North America reporting the same issues, including some with severe engine damage
- Documentation of dealers acknowledging a problem, and requiring oil change intervals of 500-1000 miles as a precautionary measure.

You are also wrong about this being only a "lubrication" issue. While this is one problem, there are many others...
- The oil dilution is causing the crankcase to become severely overfilled. Page 148 of the 2017 CRV owners manual specifically states:
"NOTICE: Do not fill the engine oil above the upper mark. Overfilling the engine oil can result in leaks and engine damage."
- Strong smell of fuel entering the vehicle cabin
- Vehicle struggling to achieve a proper operating temperature and inability to effectively heat the cabin.
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by CULater »

Have now had the new oil change at 2800 miles since the first one, and both dealers put in full synthetic telling me that is the standard now for the 1.5 turbo. If there is a fuel-dilution issue, it is critical that the oil that is most resistant to this be used and I assume that would be full synthetic. So, I'd advise owners to use full synthetic -- I'm not sure there is even an option because I've heard that conventional doesn't come in 0-20 but don't know that for a fact. Don't know if one brand is better than others in this regard.

So, I bought a quart of Mobil 1 full synthetic today just to see what the stuff smells like when there's no gas in it. It pretty much smells like nothing -- a very neutral indistinct smell. Confirmed for me that the stink in my oil before was indeed fuel. No doubt about it now. I've noticed that smell already in the new oil after just a few miles of driving. But for all I know, gas smell could get into the crankcase in other ways than fuel getting in, or it just takes a small amount of fuel in the oil to produce the gasoline odor. The real critical factor for me will be if the fluid volume increases again. Then I'll know it is because too much fuel is getting into the crankcase. I'll be keeping a pretty close eye on it and getting some photos if it increases.
Last edited by CULater on Sat Mar 17, 2018 5:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by Golfview »

I would bring it in to the dealer and get everything documented,Did you ever hear of the lemon law?your car should be covered under this,get it in writing and seek out a lemon law attorney,you should have no problem getting it resolved to your liking.
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by Dilbydog »

I would recommend a visit the website bobistheoilguy.com.
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by z0r »

op: I wouldn't worry about it, consumer reports tells us your car is highly likely to go 200k miles:

https://www.consumerreports.org/car-rel ... nd-beyond/

(why does anyone even bother with CR anymore?)
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by Helo80 »

CULater wrote: Fri Mar 16, 2018 8:05 pm Here's a post on a Facebook CRV group by a guy that could have been me. Gives you an idea of how this is going down for lots of people having the problem. But I guess there isn't a problem because Honda told me so!

By way of explanation, the overfill mark is the little hole near the top of the orange part of the dipstick. The oil level should not be higher than that and certainly not completely over the orange part as this one is.
It would not be the first time Honda has stuck their head in the sand about defects in their products. I used to own a third generation Acura TL, and it had several idiosyncrasies that many owners experienced, but Honda claimed was "normal". It was 100% hogwash, and partly why I probably will not buy another Honda product for a long time.


I have looked at a number of oil dipsticks or two in my life in most of the major oil grades in both small engine and normal car engine varieties including gas and diesel. That does not look normal... at all... Now, I would not claim to be able to ID as a gas dilution by sight, I just know enough that it looks funny, and I'd be concerned.
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by markcoop »

So I was looking at buying the CRV this month. I asked the dealer about it and they said they had not heard of the problem. I forwarded him some info about it last Saturday. He told me he would look into it - talk to their technicians and do some research. I told him this was a deal breaker for me. Five days and no response yet. Given that I told him I was shopping other cars, seems like a long time not to respond. My guess is he hasn't found a good response.
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by prudent »

He probably figured since you said it was a deal-breaker, and you provided evidence the problem is real, there was no need to respond.
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by CULater »

Well, for those following this thread I have an unfortunate update to my CRV oil problem. Got the oil changed and new filter 10 days ago and have driven about 120 miles since then, mostly around town. I've checked the oil a few times and it looked like it had increased a little above the overfill mark on the dipstick and smelled of gasoline.

Today I thought I'd take another look after driving and getting the engine warmed up. To my great surprise, the oil level was barely up to the lower mark on the dipstick and smelled strongly of gasoline. Then I noticed that there is oil all around the top of the engine in the general area around where the dipstick is inserted. Apparently the oil is getting blown out of the crankcase. Have no idea at this point where it's coming from, but obviously something has failed.

It's Sunday, so I'll have to take this curse into the Honda dealership tomorrow and undoubtedly it will be the shop for awhile. I've only owned this vehicle for 7 months and it has 9000 miles on it. It has NOT been driven in very cold weather, but mostly in moderate weather and has been in Phoenix since February.
Last edited by CULater on Sun Mar 25, 2018 2:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by Chip »

I wonder if you have bad or plugged PCV valve.
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by weltschmerz »

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by theplayer11 »

weltschmerz wrote: Sun Mar 25, 2018 2:06 pm Can you take your car to CarMax and sell it to them? As long as the check engine light is not on, you're not hiding any problems, since this oil dilution issue is a "feature" on all the CRVs. Take the loss of several $1000s of dollars and buy a different car, lesson learned. You're not going to solve the issue by wasting time going back and forth to the Honda dealer. Just move on. Life is too short.
would you like to be the one who buys this car from Carmax?
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by Helo80 »

theplayer11 wrote: Sun Mar 25, 2018 2:35 pm
weltschmerz wrote: Sun Mar 25, 2018 2:06 pm Can you take your car to CarMax and sell it to them? As long as the check engine light is not on, you're not hiding any problems, since this oil dilution issue is a "feature" on all the CRVs. Take the loss of several $1000s of dollars and buy a different car, lesson learned. You're not going to solve the issue by wasting time going back and forth to the Honda dealer. Just move on. Life is too short.
would you like to be the one who buys this car from Carmax?

Not a lawyer here -- but if the Honda dealership states that the engine is working as designed, and since the car only has 9k miles on it and the warranty transfers to the new owner.... I'm not sure OP can be blamed for passing this on to someone. In the event of a legal challenge, a trial lawyer would likely chase Honda and/or the dealership. We cannot all be ASE certified mechanics to buy/sell/own a vehicle.
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by munemaker »

CULater wrote: Sun Mar 25, 2018 1:12 pm Well, for those following this thread I have an unfortunate update to my CRV oil problem. Got the oil changed and new filter 10 days ago and have driven about 120 miles since then, mostly around town. I've checked the oil a few times and it looked like it had increased a little above the overfill mark on the dipstick and smelled of gasoline.

Today I thought I'd take another look after driving and getting the engine warmed up. To my great surprise, the oil level was barely up to the lower mark on the dipstick and smelled strongly of gasoline. Then I noticed that there is oil all around the top of the engine in the general area around where the dipstick is inserted. Apparently the oil is getting blown out of the crankcase. Have no idea at this point where it's coming from, but obviously something has failed.

It's Sunday, so I'll have to take this curse into the Honda dealership tomorrow and undoubtedly it will be the shop for awhile. I've only owned this vehicle for 7 months and it has 9000 miles on it. It has NOT been driven in very cold weather, but mostly in moderate weather and has been in Phoenix since February.
It may actually be a positive turn of events. Now that there is very tangible evidence of a problem, the dealership can hopefully find and correct the problem.

I would caution you about making judgments based on dip stick measurements over just a few miles. Sometimes (if the oil is not really hot) the oil doesn't fully settle into the pan and you can get a low reading. Sometimes the car is not exactly leveled the same way it was last time you measured. Also, when a dealership (or any place, for that matter) changes the oil, it is not always at exactly the upper line, and occasionally I have experienced a car being returned to me with oil level above the upper line.
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by Carl53 »

CULater wrote: Sun Mar 25, 2018 1:12 pm
Today I thought I'd take another look after driving and getting the engine warmed up. To my great surprise, the oil level was barely up to the lower mark on the dipstick and smelled strongly of gasoline. Then I noticed that there is oil all around the top of the engine in the general area around where the dipstick is inserted. Apparently the oil is getting blown out of the crankcase. Have no idea at this point where it's coming from, but obviously something has failed.
Have you ever found the dipstick not fully inserted or fill cap not tightened fully?
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by CULater »

Carl53 wrote: Wed Mar 28, 2018 4:36 am
CULater wrote: Sun Mar 25, 2018 1:12 pm
Today I thought I'd take another look after driving and getting the engine warmed up. To my great surprise, the oil level was barely up to the lower mark on the dipstick and smelled strongly of gasoline. Then I noticed that there is oil all around the top of the engine in the general area around where the dipstick is inserted. Apparently the oil is getting blown out of the crankcase. Have no idea at this point where it's coming from, but obviously something has failed.
Have you ever found the dipstick not fully inserted or fill cap not tightened fully?
I thought of that and didn't find that was the case, but it's not impossible that the dipstick wasn't seated fully after an oil check. A couple of mechanics I talked with disagreed as to whether oil could splatter out of the dipstick sleeve if the dipstick wasn't tightly seated, but I wouldn't rule it out. There's a double O-ring around the collar of the dipstick which must be there for a reason.

The dealer service department only cleaned up the oil on the engine. Now that it is clean, I'll make sure the dipstick is fully seated and we'll see if the oil reappears. Due back at the dealer in about 300 miles to check everything out.
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by wrongfunds »

The reason oil will splatter from the dipstick tube is because of the blow out. On a new engine, there should be no blow out. When my 1983 Honda had 250K on its clock, the dipstick would always pop out after driving the car. I suppose I should have tried to get new dipstick to verify that popping out was not due to dipstick rubber seal getting worn out after 17 years, but I was not eager to spend any real money on the car.

If you have a garage, please check the oil 1st thing in the morning before starting the car parked at the same place. Make Saturday morning ritual to check the fluids of the vehicles parked in garage.
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by TLC1957 »

I do not have a problem with gas getting into the oil on my 2017 CRV BUT I monitor the oil level. Today I had the dealer change the oil and filter, when I checked the oil level after the oil change it was above the orange indicator and 1/8" into the metal part of the dip stick. I took the car back to the dealer and they said the oil level was fine.... I said show me on the stick, guess what the oil was in the same place I saw it! So I asked how much oil did you put in, the service technician said the book calls for 4.3 quarts...WRONG my manual says 3.7 quarts with oil filter replacement. They took the car back and drained and refilled the oil with 3.7 quarts, we checked it again and it was at the top fill hole on the orange part of the stick. So if your oil is too high it MAYBE because it was filled to high to begin with. Can it be as simple as a typo in the mfg service manual??????? At the very least check your oil at the dealer so you do not have to make a return trip. On the www.crvownersclub.com web site some have reported new cars having too much oil with few miles on the CRV.
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by researcher »

TLC1957 wrote: Wed Mar 28, 2018 10:03 am Today I had the dealer change the oil and filter, when I checked the oil level after the oil change it was above the orange indicator and 1/8" into the metal part of the dip stick.
I took the car back to the dealer and they said the oil level was fine.... I said show me on the stick, guess what the oil was in the same place I saw it! So I asked how much oil did you put in, the service technician said the book calls for 4.3 quarts...WRONG my manual says 3.7 quarts with oil filter replacement.
Everyone who brings their vehicles to the dealership for service should pay close attention to this post.

Many people claim that dealership service departments have more competency/knowledge/skills because they specialize in your vehicle.

As you can see, this is simply not the case, particularly when having routine services performed.
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by acs02001 »

I recently spoke with someone who is involved in servicing many cars (I am intentionally keeping this vague given that this is a public forum). That person said that the fuel dilution issue seems to be more of an issue in colder climates. What surprised me, however, was that the person mentioned that fuel dilution seems to be related to the new Turbo charged engines Honda is using and that this person had experience with fuel being found in new accords with the Turbo charged engine... I am not a car enthusiast, so talk of Turbo charged engines means nothing to me. While this is second-hand, I wanted to pass this along because I gain so much from this forum and I know that I would want to at least be aware of a possible issue that potentially may not be limited to just the CRVs. Perhaps some 2018 Accord owners could weigh in?
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