My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

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CULater
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My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by CULater » Wed Mar 14, 2018 1:34 pm

I am just learning that there is quite of bit of chatter on the internet about a significant problem with the 1.5 liter turbo engine in the 2017-18 Honda CRV. Apparently, fuel is getting into the oil crankcase and causing problems such as strong gas smell, check engine light activation, and engine operation problems. Of course, the long term problem is going to be abnormal wear on engine parts such as pistons, cylinder walls, etc. which will affect the life of the vehicle.

One way to check to see if you might be having this problem is to remove the oil dipstick. Fuel accumulation may be indicated by the oil level appearing overfull, or showing a higher level than previous checks. The other more confirmatory symptom is the smell of fuel on the oil dipstick.

I am an owner of a 2017 CRV Touring purchased last July so needless to say I was rather upset to hear about this issue. So far, I've not noticed gas smell in the cabin, but I just decided to check my vehicle after sitting in the garage undriven for a couple of days. Sadly the oil dipstick indicates overfill and there is the distinct smell of fuel on it, so I guess the problem is real and my vehicle is affected.

It has been reported that this is a cold weather problem with the 1.5 turbo engine. My vehicle was driven sparingly this winter in the Midwest, but it is now in Arizona where I drove about a month ago, so I don't believe that operating in cold temps has had much to do with it in my case.

Since the new CRV is a very popular vehicle, I wanted to offer a heads-up to potential purchasers and help get this issue into the media so Honda will try to do something about it. So far, they appear to be stonewalling, and China has issued a ban on selling any more CRVs there. Had I known about this issue, I would not have purchased this vehicle and I'd recommend the same to others.

I'm hoping the problem doesn't escalate to the level of strong gas oder in the cabin and/or check engine light warnings and possible engine failure. Obviously, it's not a good thing to have your engine oil diluted by gasoline. I'm already formulating plans to get rid of this vehicle; certainly before the warranty runs out on it, because I believe there will be abnormal engine wear that will shorten the life of the vehicle.

If you own one, I'd strongly recommend doing the dipstick check as I did. Also, would like to hear feedback from other owners on this. Here are a couple of sites where this issue is being reported and discussed. I think there are many others.

https://www.carcomplaints.com/Honda/CR-V/2017/

http://www.crvownersclub.com/forums/14- ... blem.html
Last edited by CULater on Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
May you have the hindsight to know where you've been, The foresight to know where you're going, And the insight to know when you've gone too far. ~ Irish Blessing

Jack FFR1846
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas dilution issue

Post by Jack FFR1846 » Wed Mar 14, 2018 1:49 pm

Wow. I read a bunch on the crvownersclub and looked at the picture someone took of what the 7 quarts looked like that he drained. Looks just like what a blown head gasket, mixing coolant with oil would look like.

If this were my car, I would immediately change the oil and SAVE THE RECEIPT with the date and mileage marked on it. Going forward, change the oil more often than recommended. You could do it without a filter change.....say every 3k miles. I say this having had recall issues with Honda a long, long time ago. They really don't like fixing things that they did wrong.
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invst65
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas dilution issue

Post by invst65 » Wed Mar 14, 2018 2:01 pm

Wish you had posted this 2 weeks ago before I bought my 2018 CRV-EX on March 1.

One thing I noticed at the dealer when I bought it is that there were at least 25 LX's on the lot but only one EX so they had to find me one from another location. The salesman said it was because the EX is so popular they sell as fast as they get them in. Now I'm wondering if the real reason is because the EX has the 1.5L Turo Engine with the problems and the LX does not.

I live in Florida so if it's a cold weather problem as suggested maybe I'll get lucky.

CULater
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas dilution issue

Post by CULater » Wed Mar 14, 2018 2:06 pm

Jack FFR1846 wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 1:49 pm
Wow. I read a bunch on the crvownersclub and looked at the picture someone took of what the 7 quarts looked like that he drained. Looks just like what a blown head gasket, mixing coolant with oil would look like.

If this were my car, I would immediately change the oil and SAVE THE RECEIPT with the date and mileage marked on it. Going forward, change the oil more often than recommended. You could do it without a filter change.....say every 3k miles. I say this having had recall issues with Honda a long, long time ago. They really don't like fixing things that they did wrong.
Yeh, I thought about changing oil frequently because of this and it makes the maintenance minder showing oil life useless now. Had one oil change on the vehicle at about 6,000 miles and dealer did full synthetic with filter for over $100. Now I'll have to figure out how to DIY if I'm going to change it old-time school at 3K or so. Problem is that then I won't have official documentation of the oil changes. PITA. I now officially hate Honda, which I've owned since 1986. I agree that they have a habit of not being willing to fix stuff, which is maybe why the Chinese have landed on them so hard about this problem.
May you have the hindsight to know where you've been, The foresight to know where you're going, And the insight to know when you've gone too far. ~ Irish Blessing

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas dilution issue

Post by Jack FFR1846 » Wed Mar 14, 2018 2:14 pm

If you keep the receipt, that's all you need. I literally have a box in my garage where I throw all my oil/filter receipts into. By writing the mileage, it's proof enough that you did it. If you want to make your life very easy, consider buying a Fumoto valve. This replaces the oil drain plug and makes draining the oil very easy. No plug removal, just lift and slide the valve lever over. I have them on 2 of my cars and they are great.

I don't know where the filter is on your Honda, but if it needs a cap wrench, autozone has all the sizes. I have a genuine Acura one from back when I had an Integra and 2 or 3 sizes from autozone. Honda tends to NOT make maintenance easy. I know from replacing several alternators on Honda cars. My choice was to remove part of the front suspension or the brake booster. Not well thought out.
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Shallowpockets
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas dilution issue

Post by Shallowpockets » Wed Mar 14, 2018 2:45 pm

How does fuel get into the oil?
If you get coolant into your oil, there is a cracked block. But, fuel?

invst65
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas dilution issue

Post by invst65 » Wed Mar 14, 2018 2:54 pm

Shallowpockets wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 2:45 pm
How does fuel get into the oil?
If you get coolant into your oil, there is a cracked block. But, fuel?
Answer underlined below. Taken from a post in the same forum linked to by the OP....

Fuel dilution is an issue for SOME. To imply that it is happening in all 1.5l Honda's is just misleading. Many of us have zero issue with it. I know neither of our 1.5l DI, CVT Honda'a has ever had a trace of fuel in the oil. Same goes for my brother's DI CRV. It has been pointed out that certain climatic conditions and how the car is driven makes a difference. But, to be 100% perfectly honest I worked on cars in a small college town and later at a dealership in a high end part of Cincinnati. In both cases cars were driven very short distances, never warming up. Even before DI those cars would get gasoline in the oil during cold weather. Cold engines condense fuel out of the mixture and allow it to wash down the cylinder walls. I suspect the issue in China, based on what I have read, is that the cars may be driven very short distances. Here I have read about people complaining about this, one fellow pointed out his wife literally drove the car 3/4 of a mile to go to work! No car will do well with that! While others drive further I believe if you step back from this you may find that there are some common factors at play and not everyone, in fact most, don't fit into those criteria.

Like anything else you hear from the ones with the issues but the people who don't have a problem don't chime in.

But, as to the turbo: I have no worries at all about the turbo. The turbo in the CR-V is a long tested and perfected model that has been used for many years and has a solid reliability experience. Some say it has "lag", but drivers who are tuned into how the turbo works know how to drive the car and make it work for them. My '17 1.5 turbo CR-V will SMOKE my non-turbo 2012, its not even close. Driving in mountains is sweet with this thing, lots of power everywhere and altitude doesn't seem to matter.

One other comment: Some one posted a comment about how car makers were putting these small engines in cars because it was "cheaper". Well, if you know engines you know it actually costs as much or even more to build a small engine that makes this much power. You need better quality and special treated pistons, strong rods, forged cranks, etc. that a lower power density larger engine doesn't require. All of this costs money. The smaller engine thing is in response to EPA and DOT standards that all car makers have to comply with in order to sell cars.

CULater
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas dilution issue

Post by CULater » Wed Mar 14, 2018 3:33 pm

Here's an interesting clip about the oil dilution issue:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMX94zarLs4

Main takeaways:

- oil dilution by fuel is a known and long-standing issue that affects most later model engines.
- It is worse in engines with direct fuel injection (like the 1.5 CRV engine),
- it is worse when vehicles are run in cold weather on short trips because it comes from fuel condensation on cylinder walls which is a bigger problem in these conditions.
- it is usually a trivial or minor condition that both car makers and engine oil makers are aware of and engineer for.
- You should regularly check the level of your engine oil to determine that the level is within lower and upper limits.

BUT:

- if the oil level rises above the maximum oil level mark on the dipstick, it is NOT a minor problem and requires attention. At a minimum, the oil needs to be changed immediately.

- certain auto engines have been known to have an excessive oil dilution issue.

It seems clear to me that the 1.5 L direct-injection turbocharged CRV engine is likely to be one of those problem engines, given the numerous reports of excessive and rising engine oil levels, and the reaction of the Chinese in halting sales of this engine. It also seems likely to me that Honda won't admit to the problem or do anything about it in the U.S. anytime soon. So, in the meantime, here are the only actions I can think of:

1) Cross the CRV off your shopping list.
2) If you own one, you'll have to closely monitor the oil level and change the oil whenever the oil level goes over the full mark on the dipstick.
3) You can do more frequent oil changes than recommended by the maintenance minder; perhaps drop back to the 3K/3mo or 4K/4mo schedule of olden times.
4) You should avoid cold weather driving and short trips as much as possible.
5) You can buy a Honda extended warranty if you plan to keep the vehicle longer than the standard warranty period.
6) You can get rid of the vehicle, especially while it's still under warranty.

I will be doing #2, #3, and #6.
May you have the hindsight to know where you've been, The foresight to know where you're going, And the insight to know when you've gone too far. ~ Irish Blessing

dbr
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas dilution issue

Post by dbr » Wed Mar 14, 2018 3:45 pm

Which just goes to show reliability problems with cars can't be avoided by skating where the puck was because the problem you will have isn't on any list.

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas dilution issue

Post by TT » Wed Mar 14, 2018 7:11 pm

Good luck if you think Honda is going to admit any responsibility. They are notorious for ignoring ongoing issues and usually have to settle with a class action lawsuit and the customer is reimbursed a fraction of repair costs. After my 2008 Honda rear brake issue I bid them a not so fond farewell.

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas dilution issue

Post by need403bhelp » Wed Mar 14, 2018 7:44 pm

Just saw this thread. We are actually currently looking to buy a Subaru Forester vs Honda CR-V vs Toyota RAV4, all 2018 year.

We weren't really leaning towards the CR-V (our first test drive experience was not that great, we did a 2nd test drive, but for some reason they don't want to let you drive it on your own or take it home overnight unlike Subaru and Toyota) and this raises some more concerns.

One question re carcomplaints.com and the CR-V - in my area, at least, the CR-V seems very popular. When looking at, say, # of complaints per car/model/year on carcomplaints.com, do they adjust in any way for popularity of car? In other words, it seems natural that a more popular car, like the CR-V, would have more complaints than a less popular car like a Subaru Forester (at least in my area), even if the cars both have a similar number of problems...

Thanks so much and sorry for hijacking the thread a little bit!

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas dilution issue

Post by dwickenh » Wed Mar 14, 2018 8:22 pm

CULater wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 1:34 pm
I am just learning that there is quite of bit of chatter on the internet about a significant problem with the 1.5 liter turbo engine in the 2017-18 Honda CRV. Apparently, fuel is getting into the oil crankcase and causing problems such as strong gas smell, check engine light activation, and engine operation problems. Of course, the long term problem is going to be abnormal wear on engine parts such as pistons, cylinder walls, etc. which will affect the life of the vehicle.

One way to check to see if you might be having this problem is to remove the oil dipstick. Fuel accumulation may be indicated by the oil level appearing overfull, or showing a higher level than previous checks. The other more confirmatory symptom is the smell of fuel on the oil dipstick.

I am an owner of a 2017 CRV Touring purchased last July so needless to say I was rather upset to hear about this issue. So far, I've not noticed gas smell in the cabin, but I just decided to check my vehicle after sitting in the garage undriven for a couple of days. Sadly the oil dipstick indicates overfill and there is the distinct smell of fuel on it, so I guess the problem is real and my vehicle is affected.

It has been reported that this is a cold weather problem with the 1.5 turbo engine. My vehicle was driven sparingly this winter in the Midwest, but it is now in Arizona where I drove about a month ago, so I don't believe that operating in cold temps has had much to do with it in my case.

Since the new CRV is a very popular vehicle, I wanted to offer a heads-up to potential purchasers and help get this issue into the media so Honda will try to do something about it. So far, they appear to be stonewalling, and China has issued a ban on selling any more CRVs there. Had I known about this issue, I would not have purchased this vehicle and I'd recommend the same to others.

I'm hoping the problem doesn't escalate to the level of strong gas oder in the cabin and/or check engine light warnings and possible engine failure. Obviously, it's not a good thing to have your engine oil diluted by gasoline. I'm already formulating plans to get rid of this vehicle; certainly before the warranty runs out on it, because I believe there will be abnormal engine wear that will shorten the life of the vehicle.


If you own one, I'd strongly recommend doing the dipstick check as I did. Also, would like to hear feedback from other owners on this. Here are a couple of sites where this issue is being reported and discussed. I think there are many others.

https://www.carcomplaints.com/Honda/CR-V/2017/

http://www.crvownersclub.com/forums/14- ... blem.html
What did your dealer say about this when you took your vehicle in for service and showed them the increased oil level and the smell of gasoline on the dipstick? That is what I would do first before pursuing a boycott of their product on a blog.

If they did not respond appropriately, I would go to Honda direct with my concerns. If I did not get any response with Honda direct, I would write a letter to the Customer relations dept and the CEO to try to get a solution.

After all of that, I might pursue a boycott of their product on a blog.
The market is the most efficient mechanism anywhere in the world for transferring wealth from impatient people to patient people.” | — Warren Buffett

researcher
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas dilution issue

Post by researcher » Wed Mar 14, 2018 8:44 pm

dwickenh wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 8:22 pm
That is what I would do first before pursuing a boycott of their product on a blog.
...
After all of that, I might pursue a boycott of their product on a blog.
Why did you come to the conclusion that the purpose of this post was to "pursue a boycott on a blog?"

He explicitly stated the purpose of the post...
"I wanted to offer a heads-up to potential purchasers and help get this issue into the media so Honda will try to do something about it."

Nowhere does he mention a boycott.
He simply states that, given this unresolved issue, he would not currently recommend the vehicle.

His post seems completely reasonable and informative.

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas dilution issue

Post by LadyGeek » Wed Mar 14, 2018 10:26 pm

CULater wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 3:33 pm
Here's an interesting clip about the oil dilution issue:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMX94zarLs4
Interesting, thanks. Click the "Show More" link under the video to see the complete transcript.

In previous threads, I've stated that driving short distances constitutes "severe" engine use and you should change your oil more frequently. The video explains why. Read the full transcript, but here's a quick summary:
...My general advice here is that the people who designed the engine know about oil dilution. The people who designed the oil know about dilution. Dilution is a thing that gets managed in modern engines. The formulation of the oil is such that it provides adequate protection when diluted up to a point.

The service interval is likewise selected so that dilution doesn’t spiral out of control. This is, in part, why there’s a time component to the service interval, as well as a distance component.

...The other thing you can do to manage the dilution is either go on long drives semi-regularly - a couple of hours with lots of lean burning and sustained optimal temperature operation.

...One of the harshest things you can do to oil is cold start, drive to the station (10 minutes), catch the train to work, and drive back 10 hours later, repeat. Five days a week.

My 6-year old 2012 CR-V is just shy of 70k miles and I'm very happy with it. I was thinking that if anything bad happened to this car, I'd just get another one. But... not until this problem gets resolved.
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas dilution issue

Post by kjvmartin » Wed Mar 14, 2018 10:44 pm

Our 2015 CR-V lease is up in a couple months. I considered the buyout or trading in for a new one. This makes me reconsider trading in.

kjvm

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas dilution issue

Post by CULater » Wed Mar 14, 2018 11:14 pm

Regarding pursuing this with the dealer, I plan to do that once I'm back in the Midwest and can go in to see this dealer directly. Right now, I'm over 1600 miles away. However, you can color me surprised if the dealer is likely to do anything other than maybe offer an oil change unless Honda issues a service directive or a recall related to this issue. Color me surprised again if that happens because I don't think auto manufactures in general and Honda in particular are too eager to accept any potential responsibility for things like this until there's enough bad publicity and pressure to do it. China had to order a halt to sales to get some movement from Honda. From what I read, it appears that Honda China has extended the warranty to 6 years/100,000 miles but that's still not enough apparently. China would like the problem to actually be fixed.
May you have the hindsight to know where you've been, The foresight to know where you're going, And the insight to know when you've gone too far. ~ Irish Blessing

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas dilution issue

Post by criticalmass » Wed Mar 14, 2018 11:16 pm

Sorry to hear about these latest issues. I've had terrible experiences with Honda in the past and they are on my Do Not Buy list. Hopefully they will fix this, but be prepared for a fight and disappointment.

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas dilution issue

Post by Chip » Thu Mar 15, 2018 3:57 am

OP, does your driving pattern include a lot of short trips in cold weather? Just curious.

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas dilution issue

Post by Carl53 » Thu Mar 15, 2018 5:09 am

Our family has owned a number of Honda/Acura vehicles over the years and generally found them reliable. None of these were purchased new. I do agree that when they have a design/manufacturing defect, which we have had two such experiences in our family (but only one brought to the dealers attention), that they are not interested in owning the problem. My local mechanic has little good to say about late model Honda's. Current models in the family : 08 Acura TL with 160000 miles and 12 Ridgeline with 205000. The TL lost coolant and transmission fluid when a radiator connection failed due to dissimilar metals corroding (my diagnosis) and was very fortunate to not lose the transmission. The Ridgeline motor rear bank has been subject to overheating due to bad design of engine cooling system. Acura disavowed any issue with TL connection when it happened two years ago, until a recent oil change, when they wanted to change the ATF fluid and I reminded them of my power flush experience. They then acknowledged some reports of the problem.

In the past the most long lived Honda we've had, a 96 Accord, got passed on to a DIY mechanic at 380,000 miles last fall, who reports he repaired it and is back on the road.

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas dilution issue

Post by Carl53 » Thu Mar 15, 2018 5:15 am

Short drives particularly in cold weather may be hard on a vehicle, however, if I plunked down the $$$$$$ for a new vehicle, it better be able to do that if that is what I need as long as I service it properly. Leaking fuel into the oil does not meet the serviceability I would find acceptable, particularly for a 1 year old vehicle. I'm just a tad more tolerant (but not much more) when something like that happens in a five plus year old vehicle that I bought used.

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas dilution issue

Post by dwickenh » Thu Mar 15, 2018 6:35 am

researcher wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 8:44 pm
dwickenh wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 8:22 pm
That is what I would do first before pursuing a boycott of their product on a blog.
...
After all of that, I might pursue a boycott of their product on a blog.
Why did you come to the conclusion that the purpose of this post was to "pursue a boycott on a blog?"

He explicitly stated the purpose of the post...
"I wanted to offer a heads-up to potential purchasers and help get this issue into the media so Honda will try to do something about it."

Nowhere does he mention a boycott.
He simply states that, given this unresolved issue, he would not currently recommend the vehicle.

His post seems completely reasonable and informative.
He has reached conclusions without contacting the company that warranties the vehicle for defects. There is a method to resolve
problems with vehicles through the manufacturer. He has decided to reach conclusions based on his opinion and information from
the internet that indicates the problem is a known problem with many vehicles that does not affect long term performance. I doubt the
internet is accurate, but there are many ways to approach this subject without suggesting no one purchase a Honda.

You don't have to agree with me, it is just my opinion as a Honda CRV owner.

Dan
The market is the most efficient mechanism anywhere in the world for transferring wealth from impatient people to patient people.” | — Warren Buffett

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas dilution issue

Post by sunny_socal » Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:01 am

A boycott and a blog? This is what people do when they have too much time on their hands. Dump the CRV if you're not happy with it and buy something else. Life is too short! :wink:

Ah, I miss the good old days when we didn't have tiny engines and countless emissions controls. A normally aspirated V6 with 3L displacement for me please :beer (wife now drives a vehicle with 2L twin turbo, fingers crossed... :| )

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas dilution issue

Post by researcher » Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:39 am

dwickenh wrote:
Thu Mar 15, 2018 6:35 am
He has reached conclusions without contacting the company that warranties the vehicle for defects. There is a method to resolve
problems with vehicles through the manufacturer. He has decided to reach conclusions based on his opinion and information from
the internet that indicates the problem is a known problem with many vehicles that does not affect long term performance. I doubt the
internet is accurate, but there are many ways to approach this subject without suggesting no one purchase a Honda.

You don't have to agree with me, it is just my opinion as a Honda CRV owner.
In perusing the CRV forum over the last few months, there is a certain group of owners that wish to dismiss or silence any negative feedback.
They get very defensive if people post about problems/issues, suggesting that they keep quiet, or that the criticisms are unfounded.
I'm not sure if this is due to blind allegiance/loyalty to the brand, or a desire to bury their heads in the sand and pretend that no problems exist.

It appears you have reached conclusions without thoughtfully considering what the OP has written...
- He personally evaluated his vehicle and observed the issue. It does not take an engineering degree to diagnose. If you monitor the oil level, and find that it has magically risen (and smells of fuel), then it is clearly being diluted somehow.
- The issue is well-documented in the links provided. There is plenty of photographic evidence, including pictures of overfilled crankcases and documents from Honda dealers outlining the issue.
- The owner's manual clearly states that it is harmful for the oil to be overfilled. Owners have reported significant engine damage as a result.
- He mentioned in an earlier post that he intends to visit the dealer when he gets back home.

I am still unsure why you don't feel this information should be shared/posted.
Why do you feel he should quietly attempt to resolve the issue without discussing the problem?

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by CULater » Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:40 am

He has reached conclusions without contacting the company that warranties the vehicle for defects. There is a method to resolve
problems with vehicles through the manufacturer. He has decided to reach conclusions based on his opinion and information from
the internet that indicates the problem is a known problem with many vehicles that does not affect long term performance. I doubt the
internet is accurate, but there are many ways to approach this subject without suggesting no one purchase a Honda.

You don't have to agree with me, it is just my opinion as a Honda CRV owner.
Respect your opinion, but I reached the conclusion based on finding that the fluid level in my crankcase has increased and is now above the upper full mark, and the fact that the fluid on the dipstick clearly and distinctly reeks of gasoline smell. I've never in my life experienced either of these phenomena and they lead to the inescapable conclusion that gasoline is getting into the oil in this vehicle and to an unacceptable level, IMO. I don't need to contact the manufacturer to figure this out. I will attempt to resolve the issue through the dealer and Honda, but I'm realistic about the likely outcome of that pursuit.

I am hopeful of some solution; otherwise, I'll be faced with the moral dilemma of selling this thing to some unsuspecting buyer, or just keeping it, changing the oil far too frequently, and fretting about what might happen to the engine and when. Frankly, one of my motivations for buying a new vehicle is that my 15 year-old CRV was becoming a concern on the long drives I make to Arizona through some pretty unpopulated territory and I began to worry about a break-down in the middle of nowhere. Now I get to worry about it with a brand-new vehicle. BTW, the old CRV never had the oil level magically increase in over 190,000 miles of driving and it never smelled of gasoline. For most of it's life, I did the oil changes myself so I would have noticed.
May you have the hindsight to know where you've been, The foresight to know where you're going, And the insight to know when you've gone too far. ~ Irish Blessing

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by bloom2708 » Thu Mar 15, 2018 10:03 am

Let's say Honda would change your oil every 2 months for free. That is an hour or 2 every 2 months taken away from work or family and sitting in the dealership.

These type of scenarios don't happen that often, but if they happen to YOU, they are real and very troubling.

We had a 2007 Honda Odyssey that was a complete lemon. Transmission was never right from new. Front suspension rattled when hitting bumps. All service was done at the Honda dealership. Many trips with no solutions. With 52k miles (out of warranty) the front spark plug loosened (common problem), exploded and chunks went into the engine. Wrecked the top and bottom of the engine. Oops. I was in San Francisco for work, it was winter, my wife was driving, etc, etc. Happy fun day!

The dealer said "this happens sometimes" your bill is $7,500. Thanks for your business. I brought the title in, signed it and left it with the service manager. I said keep it. I wrote a letter to corporate Honda explaining the troubles from early on. After 10 days or so Honda agreed to replace the engine if I paid for the timing belt/water pump and a few misc parts. Came to $1,600. I did it. Paid and promptly traded the car.

The 17 CRV is under warranty, so that is a benefit. Still, the emotional and time cost is something to consider. Is there any reason to think that this problem doesn't exist on the 18 version with the same engine? Direct injection, cold air temps, unburned fuel, why would the 18 be any different unless they spec'd the injectors/software different to put less fuel into each cylinder. If they can fix the 18, why can't they fix the 17?

A very interesting issue. I know CRV's are VERY popular Boglehead cars, so this likely affects a higher percentage of us.
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by CULater » Thu Mar 15, 2018 10:09 am

This from the NHTSA website, posted on March 12:
PURCHASED A 2017 CRV FROM ASHLAND HONDA AND TOYOTA IN ASHLAND, WI IN AUGUST 2017. ON FEBRUARY 23, 2018, MY CAR WHICH HAS 5500 MILES ON IT, STARTED MAKING A HORRIBLE NOISE AND BEGAN LOSING POWER WHILE ON THE HIGHWAY. THE NOISE CONTINUED THROUGHOUT THE WEEKEND. WE MADE AN APPOINTMENT WITH ASHLAND HONDA AND TOYOTA TO SERVICE THE CALL.

HONDA CORPORATE AND THE SERVICE MANAGER (JERRY) AT ASHLAND HONDA AND TOYOTA DETERMINED THROUGH VIDEO CHATS AND CONFERENCE CALLS THAT THE CAMS WERE DESTROYED IN MY ENGINE. THEY BELIEVE THIS HAD TO DO WITH FUEL AND OIL MIXING AND GETTING INTO THE ENGINE. HONDA REQUESTED THAT ASHLAND HONDA REPLACE THE HEAD OF THE ENGINE. THEY HAVE NO FIX FOR THE PROBLEM WITH THE FUEL AND OIL MIXING AND DESTROYING THE ENGINE.

I WAS OFFERED A 100,000 EXTENDED WARRANTY AND RECOMMENDED THAT I GO TO THE DEALER EVERY 500 MILES TO GET AN OIL CHANGE TO SEE IF FUEL IS MIXING WITH THE OIL.
https://www.nhtsa.gov/vehicle/2017/HONDA/CR-V/SUV/AWD

Love to get my oil changed every 500 miles! Scandalous.
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by CULater » Thu Mar 15, 2018 10:17 am

And this:
GAS IS MIXING IN THE OIL OF OUR NEW 2017 HONDA CR-V. THE 1.5 LITER ENGINE DOES NOT WARM UP SUFFICIENTLY IN COLD WEATHER, RUNS RICH, AND LEAVES UN-COMBUSTED GAS IN THE OIL. THIS TRIGGERS ENGINE WARNING LIGHTS AND REQUIRES FREQUENT OIL CHANGES.

SENSORS AND FUEL INJECTORS WERE REPLACED. THE OIL AND FILTER WAS CHANGED. AT THIS TIME OUR ENGINE HAD LESS THAN 1100 MILES ON IT.

THESE REPAIRS DID NOT CORRECT THE PROBLEM. IN MID-JANUARY THE ENGINE WARNING LIGHTS WERE TRIGGERED AGAIN. OUR DEALER NOTED THE SMELL OF GAS IN OUR OIL AND ONCE AGAIN CHANGED THE OIL AND FILTER. WE HAD LESS THAN 1500 MILES ON THE CAR FOR THIS SERVICE.

HONDA DOES NOT APPEAR TO HAVE A SOLUTION TO THIS PROBLEM. THE OIL AND FILTER CHANGES ARE A BANDAID, AND LONG TERM DAMAGE MAY BE OCCURRING TO OUR ENGINE. HONDA MAY HAVE A MAJOR PROBLEM ON ITS HANDS WITH THE 1.5 LITER ENGINE.

And this:
JANUARY 6TH, 2018 CAR SMELLED OF EGGS AND GAS. DROVE CAR 70 MILES THE EMMISIONS AND ENGINE LIGHT CAME ON AND CAR WAS TOWED FROM A BUSY HWY 61 MN TO HONDA SERVICE CENTER. THEY HAD CRV FOR 3 WEEKS. CHANGED OIL & PROGRAMMED INJECTORS THE OIL HAD 1QUART OVER OF GAS MIXED INTO THE OIL. 700 MILES LATER AND CAR NOW HAS GAS MIXED INTO OIL AGAIN AND OVER THE ORANGE DIPSTICK AND SMELLS OF VERY STRONG GAS.
https://www.nhtsa.gov/vehicle/2017/HONDA/CR-V/SUV/AWD

Is it a duck?
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by whodidntante » Thu Mar 15, 2018 10:20 am

I would sell the car and hope my next car is higher quality if this issue bothered me. I really doubt that Honda is going to replace the engine.

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas dilution issue

Post by friar1610 » Thu Mar 15, 2018 10:23 am

LadyGeek wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 10:26 pm
CULater wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 3:33 pm
Here's an interesting clip about the oil dilution issue:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMX94zarLs4
Interesting, thanks. Click the "Show More" link under the video to see the complete transcript.

In previous threads, I've stated that driving short distances constitutes "severe" engine use and you should change your oil more frequently. The video explains why. Read the full transcript, but here's a quick summary:
...My general advice here is that the people who designed the engine know about oil dilution. The people who designed the oil know about dilution. Dilution is a thing that gets managed in modern engines. The formulation of the oil is such that it provides adequate protection when diluted up to a point.

The service interval is likewise selected so that dilution doesn’t spiral out of control. This is, in part, why there’s a time component to the service interval, as well as a distance component.

...The other thing you can do to manage the dilution is either go on long drives semi-regularly - a couple of hours with lots of lean burning and sustained optimal temperature operation.

...One of the harshest things you can do to oil is cold start, drive to the station (10 minutes), catch the train to work, and drive back 10 hours later, repeat. Five days a week.


My 6-year old 2012 CR-V is just shy of 70k miles and I'm very happy with it. I was thinking that if anything bad happened to this car, I'd just get another one. But... not until this problem gets resolved.
Regarding the bolded portion of the quote above provided by Lady Geek... It seems to me that if long drives are not a normal part of one's lifestyle and if the need exists to do so as a "maintenance" procedure, this is not the car for them. As I've mentioned in another post or two, CRVs recently made my "short list" of potential new cars. As I live in New England (cold winters) and don't typically drive long distances any more, I'm doubtful that it will remain on the list.
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by JPH » Thu Mar 15, 2018 10:57 am

I had my first oil change on my 2017 CR-V EX this morning. I had 7,448 miles on the car, and the Maintenance-Minder read 10% remaining oil life. I checked the oil level myself before taking it in, and it was a little above the top mark on the dipstick. I took it to my regular mechanic that I have used for >30 years, not a Honda dealer. I asked that he check for this problem, but the message did not get relayed. After the job was complete, I talked to the mechanic, and he said he spilled some of the oil and didn't notice any fuel smell. He also said that problem is pretty obvious when it occurs. He also said the old oil was extremely black and dirty. He said it left a stain where he spilled some. He did not have any specific knowledge of this issue in the CR-V, but recommended oil changes every 5,000 miles. That's what I'll do for now, while keeping an eye on the oil level.
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by CULater » Thu Mar 15, 2018 11:09 am

JPH wrote:
Thu Mar 15, 2018 10:57 am
I had my first oil change on my 2017 CR-V EX this morning. I had 7,448 miles on the car, and the Maintenance-Minder read 10% remaining oil life. I checked the oil level myself before taking it in, and it was a little above the top mark on the dipstick. I took it to my regular mechanic that I have used for >30 years, not a Honda dealer. I asked that he check for this problem, but the message did not get relayed. After the job was complete, I talked to the mechanic, and he said he spilled some of the oil and didn't notice any fuel smell. He also said that problem is pretty obvious when it occurs. He also said the old oil was extremely black and dirty. He said it left a stain where he spilled some. He did not have any specific knowledge of this issue in the CR-V, but recommended oil changes every 5,000 miles. That's what I'll do for now, while keeping an eye on the oil level.
I have put on about 2800 miles since I got the first oil change for my CRV in January. In addition to the oil level having risen and the gas smell, the oil appears very black also, which seemed unusual to me in this short a time since fresh oil was put it. It was Mobil 1 full-synthetic. It occurred to me that this may also be a symptom of the problem; perhaps the gas-diluted oil is not lubricating as well and there is more wear debris being accumulated than usual.
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas dilution issue

Post by LawEgr1 » Thu Mar 15, 2018 11:13 am

sunny_socal wrote:
Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:01 am

Ah, I miss the good old days when we didn't have tiny engines and countless emissions controls. A normally aspirated V6 with 3L displacement for me please :beer (wife now drives a vehicle with 2L twin turbo, fingers crossed... :| )
There is some truth to this.

Ironically, I bought a car that "wasn't recommended" by Consumer Reports. A lightly used '14 Ford Taurus - huge car, I know. Huge trunk. Great ride / technology for the price. Some of the complaints were nonsense. Mechanically, the car has been outstanding and I anticipate it to continue to do so. It also is a 290 HP 3.5V6, which does have one known issue on the water pump.

That said, it just goes to show that regardless of the brand reputation, new(er) technology and components put together as a system may not work as intended regardless of testing. Perhaps leadership changed in the quality department and they were the champion of the rock steady quality control. Perhaps the head gasket engineer (yes, there will be one specializing in this component) took a day off or was new and didn't understand what type of rubber to insert. Perhaps they knew and said, "enough people will buy this, we can easily absorb it".

There's no right or wrong answer, it's just how it is.

Heck, one family member I know bought a 2011 Kia Sorento. That thing has only been in the shop for a recall, nothing else. You're always playing the odds, but things like this happen.

Sorry it's occurring but thank you for bringing it up. We are in the market for a crossover SUV and the 2017+ CRV was very high on our list after sitting in it. I've personally crossed it off as there are other competitors that do not have glaring issues (yet) :)

Best
LE1
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by H-Town » Thu Mar 15, 2018 11:15 am

A good headsup to potential buyers who are looking at brand names (Honda & Toyota) for reliability.

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by CULater » Thu Mar 15, 2018 11:17 am

At this point, I think it's a matter of WHEN, not if, a class-action suit is initiated against Honda for this engine. I can only surmise the scenario, but perhaps someone has more specific information on similar class-action suits. I'm guessing that it will take quite a bit of time and involve a fair bit of hassle to benefit from any settlement. It will also require the owner to be able to document that their vehicle has the problem and should be included, which will require the hassle of hounding the Honda dealer and Honda corporate, keeping records, etc. That's not even considering the hassle of continuing to drive the thing and spending $$ on oil changes every month and praying the check engine light doesn't start coming on. Perhaps at the end of it, an owner of an affected vehicle will be fully compensated, but that's not assured. My guess is that it would be better to try to get rid of the vehicle as soon as possible before market value is affected by a class-action. However, a fair financial loss will be the consequence. Any thoughts?
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by eye.surgeon » Thu Mar 15, 2018 11:33 am

The quest to meet strict EPA fuel economy requirements is creating myriad reliability issues, some of which won't show up for years. Direct injection is only one. All these little low displacement turbo engines are highly stressed, and 100% of these turbos will fail eventually. If you're looking for a booming future business consider rebuilding turbochargers. CVT tranmissions, same thing. Give me a normally aspirated engine and a real automatic transmission any day.
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by jpohio » Thu Mar 15, 2018 11:34 am

I own a 2018 Honda Accord, the 1.5L engine, not the 2.0. Does the Accord have the same engine as the CRV?

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by czr » Thu Mar 15, 2018 12:05 pm

jpohio wrote:
Thu Mar 15, 2018 11:34 am
I own a 2018 Honda Accord, the 1.5L engine, not the 2.0. Does the Accord have the same engine as the CRV?
I believe it is the same 1.5 liter turbo motor as the the Accord from 2018 but it also is in the 2016+ Civic which has been around for a while so check to see how those have been running and any fixes there. The turbo in their engines is here to stay for a while and Hondas are very reputable so believe they will stand by their product and make things right.

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by trinc » Thu Mar 15, 2018 12:16 pm

i have a 2005 CR-V that has never had an issue ( other than airbag recall ), we needed to replace it as my son is now driving it...

first thought was to buy another CR-V or Forester and look at the RAV4 ( which we did before buying the first CR-V ).

the new CVT tranny crossed the CR-V off the list, oil consumption issues killed the Forester, we opted for the RAV4 limited.

Reading through forums & reviews it sure seems there are a lot of issues with new cars.

Tim

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by SeaToTheBay » Thu Mar 15, 2018 12:28 pm

czr wrote:
Thu Mar 15, 2018 12:05 pm
I believe it is the same 1.5 liter turbo motor as the the Accord from 2018 but it also is in the 2016+ Civic which has been around for a while so check to see how those have been running and any fixes there. The turbo in their engines is here to stay for a while and Hondas are very reputable so believe they will stand by their product and make things right.
This is what I'm wondering. The Civic has been out longer than the current CR-V, so there are 300k-400k more units in the U.S. with almost the exact same engine. Why is this not happening with them - or is it?

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by need403bhelp » Thu Mar 15, 2018 12:28 pm

trinc wrote:
Thu Mar 15, 2018 12:16 pm
i have a 2005 CR-V that has never had an issue ( other than airbag recall ), we needed to replace it as my son is now driving it...

first thought was to buy another CR-V or Forester and look at the RAV4 ( which we did before buying the first CR-V ).

the new CVT tranny crossed the CR-V off the list, oil consumption issues killed the Forester, we opted for the RAV4 limited.

Reading through forums & reviews it sure seems there are a lot of issues with new cars.

Tim
Is oil consumption still a problem with new (2017 or 2018) Foresters?

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by zengolf2011 » Thu Mar 15, 2018 12:56 pm

Sorry to hear of these problems. I'm on my 4th Honda (2014 Crosstour, 6-cyl., 40,000 mi.) and have had no problems with any. Similar experiences with Toyotas, though I did have a leaky head gasket on my MR-2 Spyder. Toyota repaired that under warranty, no problems thereafter. But things can change. I've always avoided turbos due to longevity concerns, but that maybe an obsolete attitude today. I will still avoid any turbo for at least a few more years to see what develops. Same with CV transmissions because I use my car for light towing. I think there still is no substitute for several years of real world experience with new technologies. Love the hands-free cellular and safety technologies in my Crosstour, though.

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by warowits » Thu Mar 15, 2018 1:04 pm

I googled oil smell in gas. There were a massive number of results, and the 2017+ CRV wasn't in the top results even when searching specifically for "CRV oil smells like gas". There were a very large number of complaints about the prior generation nonturbo having this exact same problem, including a class action for gas smell in the cabin of 2015 crvs. Until we have some indication of the relative frequency of this phenomenon I think conclusions will be hard to reach.
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by researcher » Thu Mar 15, 2018 1:25 pm

warowits wrote:
Thu Mar 15, 2018 1:04 pm
I googled oil smell in gas.
You are searching for the wrong issue.
You need to research OIL DILUTION, not smelly gas/oil.

It isn't the gas that has an oil smell, it's the other way around.
Besides, a gas smell is only one possible side effect of the actual problem.

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by CULater » Thu Mar 15, 2018 1:38 pm

So, I decided to take my '17 CRV in to the local Honda dealer here in Phoenix instead of waiting until I finally get back to the dealer in the Midwest where I purchased. I'm concerned they won't have the motivation of the selling dealer, but thought I'd get the ball rolling. I don't think much of this dealer's service department, as I've been in there before with my previous vehicle and they couldn't even do an oil change without overfilling and spent most of the time trying to upsell maintenance to me.

As I expected, the service guys hadn't heard a thing about this problem and were totally flamboozled. They googled and came back saying the problem all had to do with Chinese-made CRVs, which is bullpucky. According to Honda America, the 1.5L turbo engines are all being built in Ohio for the global market.
In a CR-V first, the new 1.5-liter turbocharged engine is built exclusively at the Honda engine plant in Anna, Ohio.

"Our Ohio team did an incredible job as the lead plant for the global launch of this new Honda CR-V and we look forward to sharing this world-class 2017 CR-V with our customers in the U.S., North America and around the world." said Tim Myers, plant manager at the East Liberty Auto Plant. "With a first-ever available turbocharged engine that is also built right here in Ohio we believe the CR-V will continue to set the standard for compact SUVs."1
https://hondainamerica.com/news/honda-b ... ty-plant/

Nevertheless, they took it into the service area to have a look, and I'm now back at home waiting to hear that I can get picked up and go back to get the vehicle. I will be amazed if I hear anything from them other than "everything looks OK," but I'll try to keep an open mind. I'll be sure to report back to thread readers what happens.
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by researcher » Thu Mar 15, 2018 2:04 pm

CULater wrote:
Thu Mar 15, 2018 1:38 pm
Nevertheless, they took it into the service area to have a look, and I'm now back at home waiting to hear that I can get picked up and go back to get the vehicle. I will be amazed if I hear anything from them other than "everything looks OK," but I'll try to keep an open mind. I'll be sure to report back to thread readers what happens.
You need to have them document that the dipstick shows the crankcase to be overfilled.

You should also require they measure the amount of oil drained, insisting that you be present during the process.

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by invst65 » Thu Mar 15, 2018 2:46 pm

I think it would be great if Amazon started selling cars or at least you could buy them online without going to a dealer and you could find honest reviews like the ones you see on Amazon.

On Amazon it's been my experience that just about everything you buy will have some 1-star reviews stating what a piece of "sh**t" the product is and detailing all the problems they've had with it. When you do your research you have to take those into account and weight them against all of the other reviews before making your decision.

Something like this would have been very helpful before buying my 2018 CR-V two weeks ago. At this point it's pretty obvious that oil-dilution has been a major problem in China but it's really hard to tell how widespread it is in the USA.

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by LadyGeek » Thu Mar 15, 2018 3:25 pm

Stated earlier: 2017 Honda CR-V SUV AWD | NHTSA

To see all of the related complaints, go to the section "118 Complaints for 2017 HONDA CR-V". Underneath is "FILTER Complaints BY AFFECTED COMPONENTS". Click on "Fuel/Propulsion System".

So far, there are 17 complaints. A few are not related, but the earliest "gas smell" problem is March 15, 2017.
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by DorothyB » Thu Mar 15, 2018 3:32 pm

thank you so much for posting this. I am probably months away from replacing my 2002 CRV and was planning to get a barely used 2017 or 2018 CRV.

Re: the abundance of LX and very few EX available on a lot, there is a significant difference in the two trim levels. For me, the lack of variable speed intermittent wipers on the LX are a deal breaker. The EX also has significant other extra features over the EX.

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by CULater » Thu Mar 15, 2018 3:33 pm

My hunch is that most people don't ever bother to check their oil level and certainly don't sniff the dipstick. I generally checked the level now and then, particularly when I was planning a longer road trip. Had a 2002 CRV and the level never seemed to change, so I got lazy. If we weren't such dodos there would probably be more people reporting on stuff like this. Now, all of you sleepwalkers who own 2017-18 CRVs need to get yourself out there and pull that dipstick. Hope you don't discover you're a victim too. I'm pretty sure this is a real issue and I'm pretty sure a lot of people cruising around in their new CRVs will never know about it until something bad happens, and then it will get blamed on something else.
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by invst65 » Thu Mar 15, 2018 3:51 pm

DorothyB wrote:
Thu Mar 15, 2018 3:32 pm
Re: the abundance of LX and very few EX available on a lot, there is a significant difference in the two trim levels. For me, the lack of variable speed intermittent wipers on the LX are a deal breaker. The EX also has significant other extra features over the EX.
Yes, it does. When we bought our EX last month there was only one EX on the lot and about 25 LX's. When I read about the problem in this thread my first thought was that it was because of the problems with the Turbo engine that the LX doesn't have but upon further research I doubt that is the case. The EX just has a lot more fancy stuff that the average person is willing to pay about $2500 more for.

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