re-siding house - vinyl or hardiplank?

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TarHeel2002
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re-siding house - vinyl or hardiplank?

Post by TarHeel2002 » Sun Mar 04, 2018 3:51 pm

We are considering re-siding our house in the next year or two. We have been here for 10 years and plan on being here for at least another 10. Choices would be hardiplank or vinyl. We live in an approximately 2,000 sq/ft ranch style home in the midwest. We do see snow here. Does anyone have any experience or opinions on these two types of materials? Our home value is probably about 300k and we owe 154k if that matters at all. We currently have vinyl. Thanks!

:sharebeer

ddurrett896
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Re: re-siding house - vinyl or hardiplank?

Post by ddurrett896 » Sun Mar 04, 2018 4:15 pm

I would do Hardi. My uncle had a vinyl house and even though it was installed correctly, had bad drafts. He went with Hardi and it's corrected plus looks better and stands up to the elements better IMO.

bob60014
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Re: re-siding house - vinyl or hardiplank?

Post by bob60014 » Sun Mar 04, 2018 4:27 pm

Hardi for sure. It stands up, looks and wears better, imho.

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CAsage
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Re: re-siding house - vinyl or hardiplank?

Post by CAsage » Sun Mar 04, 2018 4:58 pm

I have never understood how vinyl would be considered a good option.. anywhere, ever. I have Hardie shingles on my freestanding garage (two sides, with the wall-facing sides sheathed in the Hardie 4x8' sheets). The stuff is awesome - doesn't shrink or droop, you can patch it like wood if you ding it, paintable.... Termites won't touch it.... Durable. Looks good....
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Sandtrap
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Re: re-siding house - vinyl or hardiplank?

Post by Sandtrap » Sun Mar 04, 2018 5:08 pm

Apples and Oranges.
Hardi
There is also a structural component to Hardi over vinyl siding.
j
Last edited by Sandtrap on Sun Mar 04, 2018 6:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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mrc
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Re: re-siding house - vinyl or hardiplank?

Post by mrc » Sun Mar 04, 2018 5:10 pm

We re-sided our vinyl 2 story colonial with Hardy. Much nicer living now. Quieter in the wind. Looks brand new. Hail proof. Doesn't come loose in high winds. We also added OSB sheathing and house wrap. Original build omitted the wrap and had sheathing only on the corners. You could have broken into our house through the wall (vinyl + 1" polystyrene board + 4" fiberglass + 1/2" drywall) with a utility knife. :oops:
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MnD
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Re: re-siding house - vinyl or hardiplank?

Post by MnD » Sun Mar 04, 2018 5:13 pm

Do you ever get hail? Vinyl siding in the May 2017 Denver hail storm was a disaster. In the places with the biggest hail, it punched hundreds of holes right through the vinyl siding on the west sides.

We had 30-year old steel siding which was very lightly damaged on one side of the house but it couldn't be matched, so our insurance totalled the siding on the whole house. We replaced all the steel with on a 1952 2500 SF ranch with James Hardie Colorplus fascia, soffit, plank siding and trim, all factory painted. It looks like a new house! The houses that went with vinyl replacement look very well.....average. The James Hardi continuous soffit venting is excellent - another improvement.

Get several estimates. Our estimates varied a lot for exactly the same job. Our small company (older owner and foreman) did the bid themselves and they were was very old school but did fabulous work. Some of the other bids were obviously very corporate commissioned sales type outfits and bid much higher.

Here's an example of what hail did to vinyl siding here. Note the window isn't even broken, just the screen.
Image

tibbitts
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Re: re-siding house - vinyl or hardiplank?

Post by tibbitts » Sun Mar 04, 2018 8:04 pm

I don't have Hardi but the concern I would have is with the fact that it's only available in short lengths. I don't understand why it doesn't come in lengths up to common transportation limits (basically the length a tractor-trailer can carry - 53ft?) Nobody wants seams. I've read the documentation for doing seams and... like I said, nobody wants seams.

pshonore
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Re: re-siding house - vinyl or hardiplank?

Post by pshonore » Sun Mar 04, 2018 8:47 pm

tibbitts wrote:
Sun Mar 04, 2018 8:04 pm
I don't have Hardi but the concern I would have is with the fact that it's only available in short lengths. I don't understand why it doesn't come in lengths up to common transportation limits (basically the length a tractor-trailer can carry - 53ft?) Nobody wants seams. I've read the documentation for doing seams and... like I said, nobody wants seams.
Any idea how much that would weigh? And how much it would droop in the middle? About those seams - make sure your installer has the right tools for cutting it. Looks like a hand held power sheet metal shear. Absolutely no circular saws, etc.

staythecourse
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Re: re-siding house - vinyl or hardiplank?

Post by staythecourse » Sun Mar 04, 2018 8:49 pm

No doubt for resale hardi. I don't know ANY high quality home built with vinyl. Do you?

There is a reason vinyl is cheaper as a product.

Good luck.
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chevca
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Re: re-siding house - vinyl or hardiplank?

Post by chevca » Sun Mar 04, 2018 9:53 pm

tibbitts wrote:
Sun Mar 04, 2018 8:04 pm
I don't have Hardi but the concern I would have is with the fact that it's only available in short lengths. I don't understand why it doesn't come in lengths up to common transportation limits (basically the length a tractor-trailer can carry - 53ft?) Nobody wants seams. I've read the documentation for doing seams and... like I said, nobody wants seams.
Just what siding do you know of that comes in 53ft lenghts??? Does vinyl?? You want seems for expansion and contraction.

Hardi-plank for sure, OP.

CurlyDave
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Re: re-siding house - vinyl or hardiplank?

Post by CurlyDave » Sun Mar 04, 2018 9:57 pm

pshonore wrote:
Sun Mar 04, 2018 8:47 pm
... About those seams - make sure your installer has the right tools for cutting it. Looks like a hand held power sheet metal shear. Absolutely no circular saws, etc.
Hardi can be cut with a circular saw -- you do need a special blade. I have used both the blade and the shear. The shear produces less dust.

The reality is that Hardi can also be cut with a regular circular saw blade, but it dulls the blade quickly, and produces excessive dust. The dust gets into the saw bearings and reduces their life.

Hardi is so superior to vinyl that there is no real comparison.

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Re: re-siding house - vinyl or hardiplank?

Post by tibbitts » Sun Mar 04, 2018 10:29 pm

pshonore wrote:
Sun Mar 04, 2018 8:47 pm
tibbitts wrote:
Sun Mar 04, 2018 8:04 pm
I don't have Hardi but the concern I would have is with the fact that it's only available in short lengths. I don't understand why it doesn't come in lengths up to common transportation limits (basically the length a tractor-trailer can carry - 53ft?) Nobody wants seams. I've read the documentation for doing seams and... like I said, nobody wants seams.
Any idea how much that would weigh? And how much it would droop in the middle? About those seams - make sure your installer has the right tools for cutting it. Looks like a hand held power sheet metal shear. Absolutely no circular saws, etc.
I don't think it would droop because it would be attached to the house, hopefully. You'd have to carry long boards standing upright of course. Obviously most houses aren't 53ft, I was just saying that I'd understand that being a limit. But Hardi isn't long enough for the longest horizontal board on my 2-car garage, and the boards (whatever kind they are) on there now are that long, so I'd be going from no seams to having seams. Seams might be okay if they weren't seen, but I can see the seams on the Hardi installations I'm aware of.

sixty40
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Re: re-siding house - vinyl or hardiplank?

Post by sixty40 » Sun Mar 04, 2018 10:32 pm

I also want to redo the exterior of our home. It currently has some type of wood fiber board and want to replace with Hardie Plank Lap Siding. Does anyone have any idea of the installed cost, such as a per square foot installed cost? I have about a 2500 sf 2-story home in Northern California.

Thanks

pshonore
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Re: re-siding house - vinyl or hardiplank?

Post by pshonore » Sun Mar 04, 2018 10:44 pm

tibbitts wrote:
Sun Mar 04, 2018 10:29 pm
pshonore wrote:
Sun Mar 04, 2018 8:47 pm
tibbitts wrote:
Sun Mar 04, 2018 8:04 pm
I don't have Hardi but the concern I would have is with the fact that it's only available in short lengths. I don't understand why it doesn't come in lengths up to common transportation limits (basically the length a tractor-trailer can carry - 53ft?) Nobody wants seams. I've read the documentation for doing seams and... like I said, nobody wants seams.
Any idea how much that would weigh? And how much it would droop in the middle? About those seams - make sure your installer has the right tools for cutting it. Looks like a hand held power sheet metal shear. Absolutely no circular saws, etc.
I don't think it would droop because it would be attached to the house, hopefully. You'd have to carry long boards standing upright of course. Obviously most houses aren't 53ft, I was just saying that I'd understand that being a limit. But Hardi isn't long enough for the longest horizontal board on my 2-car garage, and the boards (whatever kind they are) on there now are that long, so I'd be going from no seams to having seams. Seams might be okay if they weren't seen, but I can see the seams on the Hardi installations I'm aware of.
I'm talking about drooping when transporting from pile to house. The stuff is heavy. It weighs 2.3 lbs per sq ft. A 50 ft length would weigh about 60 lbs. That's about the same as a piece of 4X8 sheetrock. Imagine carrying of piece of sheetrock 6" high X 50 ft long.

Clueless
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Re: re-siding house - vinyl or hardiplank?

Post by Clueless » Sun Mar 04, 2018 11:44 pm

Hardie board will resist small hail; however, softball size hail from a F4 or F5 can easily puncture hardie board. I would look into LP Smartside. Very similar to Hardie board in strength but more impact resistant. Cost is the same. If you live in tornado alley and individual pieces need to be replaced, it is easier with LP Smartside than Hardie board. HTH

limeyx
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Re: re-siding house - vinyl or hardiplank?

Post by limeyx » Sun Mar 04, 2018 11:52 pm

For us it was Hardi all the way. We had the (in)famous "LP" siding when we bought the house and wanted to only do this once in our lifetimes
It was slow to get on but we are super happy so far

jalbert
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Re: re-siding house - vinyl or hardiplank?

Post by jalbert » Mon Mar 05, 2018 12:07 am

Hardie plank, and get the smooth plank without the fake woodgrain-- once painted it will look like painted wood (woodgrain doesn't show through when wood is painted). The Hardie plank with fake woodgrain will still look like fake woodgrain after being painted.
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2comma
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Re: re-siding house - vinyl or hardiplank?

Post by 2comma » Mon Mar 05, 2018 2:24 am

I DIY everything. Replaced all of the hardboard siding with Hardie board on our mostly brick house plus two fully sided additions (garage and sun room). I was impressed with how well it holds paint. After about 7 years I cleaned and repainted after the roofers put tar marks in several places during the tear off. Other than that the siding looked like it did when new before I repainted. I think I will get at least 15 years between paint jobs. No worries about rot or bubbles due to water intrusion like on hardboard.

I used a skill saw with a special blade and wore proper respiratory protection. To my eye it looks much better than the aluminum or vinyl siding we have in our area.
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Limoncello402
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Re: re-siding house - vinyl or hardiplank?

Post by Limoncello402 » Mon Mar 05, 2018 4:16 am

Thinking of Hardi board myself for my 100 year old frame house. Somehow I was under the impression that it never needed painting. But this is wrong. Can someone tell me how often it may need to be painted versus wood frame?
I'm wondering what the advantage over still-in-good-shape wood frame is.

Windylotus
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Re: re-siding house - vinyl or hardiplank?

Post by Windylotus » Mon Mar 05, 2018 4:26 am

tibbitts wrote:
Sun Mar 04, 2018 8:04 pm
I don't have Hardi but the concern I would have is with the fact that it's only available in short lengths. I don't understand why it doesn't come in lengths up to common transportation limits (basically the length a tractor-trailer can carry - 53ft?) Nobody wants seams. I've read the documentation for doing seams and... like I said, nobody wants seams.
And how would you propose a few guys on ladders two stories up in the air, would install such a long piece of HardiePlank? Not to mention weight. No offence tibbitts but, you obviously have no experience in construction. Seams are a part of life. Hardie still expands and contracts (less than vinyl) so you need seems. There is a small gap in between seems to allow for this. If you installed a 53 foot piece of Hardie tight to two corners, it would buckle over time. Everything moves, including concrete siding!

OP, Yes HardiePlank all the way. I have installed lots of both. Vinyl is popular back east with high humidity but mid-west you should be good to go with HardiePlank. Very durable if done correctly.

Windylotus
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Re: re-siding house - vinyl or hardiplank?

Post by Windylotus » Mon Mar 05, 2018 4:40 am

Limoncello402 wrote:
Mon Mar 05, 2018 4:16 am
Thinking of Hardi board myself for my 100 year old frame house. Somehow I was under the impression that it never needed painting. But this is wrong. Can someone tell me how often it may need to be painted versus wood frame?
I'm wondering what the advantage over still-in-good-shape wood frame is.
You should be able to get a solid 10-15 years between HardiePlank painting as long as you have a good vapor/moisture barrier behind it. You can buy pre-painted Hardie, but it all needs painted in the end. It only comes pre-primed. Another thing that is often overlooked by installers as per the warranty is, any cuts need to be primed first.

Not sure what you mean by "wood frame?" If your wood lap siding is still in good shape, don't do anything. Just keep a good coat of paint on that. The problem with 100 year old homes is they don't have a proper vapor/moisture barrier behind the siding. So as moisture moves through the house, it moves through the siding. That's where you see many older houses like that always have peeling paint.

deskjockey
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Re: re-siding house - vinyl or hardiplank?

Post by deskjockey » Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:08 am

Windylotus wrote:
Mon Mar 05, 2018 4:26 am
OP, Yes HardiePlank all the way. I have installed lots of both. Vinyl is popular back east with high humidity but mid-west you should be good to go with HardiePlank. Very durable if done correctly.
Does HardiePlank not do well in very humid environments? I'm asking because we'll probably reside our house in a 5-8 years, and its in Virginia. It's humid where we live, but not Florida-style humidity.

dsmclone
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Re: re-siding house - vinyl or hardiplank?

Post by dsmclone » Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:43 am

TarHeel2002 wrote:
Sun Mar 04, 2018 3:51 pm
We are considering re-siding our house in the next year or two. We have been here for 10 years and plan on being here for at least another 10. Choices would be hardiplank or vinyl. We live in an approximately 2,000 sq/ft ranch style home in the midwest. We do see snow here. Does anyone have any experience or opinions on these two types of materials? Our home value is probably about 300k and we owe 154k if that matters at all. We currently have vinyl. Thanks!

:sharebeer
Probably a dumb question but why are you re-siding your house? Our house has vinyl siding, about 13 years old, and we also live in the midwest. I see no reason to spend $15k to replace something that looks just like it did 13 years ago besides a little fade, that no one notices.

Chuck5781
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Re: re-siding house - vinyl or hardiplank?

Post by Chuck5781 » Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:49 am

Please remember that all vinyl siding is not created equal. The picture posted earlier shows a hollow backed, thin version of vinyl, and not every product is hollow nor thin.

We live in the Midwest, and last year (with some financial help courtesy of a hail insurance claim) we installed a foam backed siding product named Structure manufactured by Mastic. We chose a 7 inch board, and most of the home was sided with 16 foot pieces, to minimize seams. The foam backing creates a “board” that doesn’t flop around, and the 7 inch width results in each board being attached to the wall with nails every 7 inches - at least 50 percent more nails holding the board to the wall than our previous siding.

The result for us is a very quiet and stable siding - virtually no wind or rain noise. It has obviously added insulation to the wall, but it would take someone with much better analytical skills than me to determine if that made any difference. I’ll likely have it power washed in a few years, other than that I expect no maintenance.

We formerly had a very low quality, hollow, builder grade vinyl, very wide, very thin (much like in the picture posted earlier). When it rained, we heard it, when wind blew, we heard it. When the temperature changed significantly, we heard pops as it expanded and contracted. The combination of being attached much more securely to the home in 7 inch increments, and in longer 16 foot pieces, and being backed by foam, and the actual vinyl being thicker, has given us a much quieter and overall better solution.

Most people who see it from the street assume it’s Hardie board or a similar product.

My recommendation is to do your due diligence by pricing and reviewing this product, and see how it stacks up economically and functionally to your other options.

tibbitts
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Re: re-siding house - vinyl or hardiplank?

Post by tibbitts » Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:50 am

Windylotus wrote:
Mon Mar 05, 2018 4:26 am
tibbitts wrote:
Sun Mar 04, 2018 8:04 pm
I don't have Hardi but the concern I would have is with the fact that it's only available in short lengths. I don't understand why it doesn't come in lengths up to common transportation limits (basically the length a tractor-trailer can carry - 53ft?) Nobody wants seams. I've read the documentation for doing seams and... like I said, nobody wants seams.
And how would you propose a few guys on ladders two stories up in the air, would install such a long piece of HardiePlank? Not to mention weight. No offence tibbitts but, you obviously have no experience in construction. Seams are a part of life. Hardie still expands and contracts (less than vinyl) so you need seems. There is a small gap in between seems to allow for this. If you installed a 53 foot piece of Hardie tight to two corners, it would buckle over time. Everything moves, including concrete siding!

OP, Yes HardiePlank all the way. I have installed lots of both. Vinyl is popular back east with high humidity but mid-west you should be good to go with HardiePlank. Very durable if done correctly.
I never claimed to have any experience in construction but if low-tech siding can be designed such that it can span my two-car garage why can't Hardi siding? Why would I replace something without seams with something with seams? You are probably correct that a more flexible material may required. Again try to get past the 53ft extreme example and concentrate on why would you replace siding without seams with siding with seams, if the former gave good service for, say, 30+ years? I'm sure some seams are necessary for engineering purposes but they are also obviously undesirable. Most of us aren't experienced enough to know whether the board is being installed correctly and several houses I know looked okay when the siding was new (but still with annoying seams), and then looked horrible a few years later.

destinationnc
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Re: re-siding house - vinyl or hardiplank?

Post by destinationnc » Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:06 am

Your house value warrants hardi in the midwest. Under $250,000 and vinyl would be an option. Hardi is worth it.

pshonore
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Re: re-siding house - vinyl or hardiplank?

Post by pshonore » Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:15 am

Limoncello402 wrote:
Mon Mar 05, 2018 4:16 am
Thinking of Hardi board myself for my 100 year old frame house. Somehow I was under the impression that it never needed painting. But this is wrong. Can someone tell me how often it may need to be painted versus wood frame?
I'm wondering what the advantage over still-in-good-shape wood frame is.
You can also buy Hardiplank pre-painted. https://www.jameshardie.com/color-and-d ... colorfully

ddurrett896
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Re: re-siding house - vinyl or hardiplank?

Post by ddurrett896 » Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:34 am

tibbitts wrote:
Sun Mar 04, 2018 10:29 pm
Obviously most houses aren't 53ft, I was just saying that I'd understand that being a limit.
The problem is the tractor trailer isn't delivering it to your door. It's coming in a van, trailer or work truck and anything over 12' starts pushing the limits.

Windylotus
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Re: re-siding house - vinyl or hardiplank?

Post by Windylotus » Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:39 am

deskjockey wrote:
Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:08 am
Does HardiePlank not do well in very humid environments? I'm asking because we'll probably reside our house in a 5-8 years, and its in Virginia. It's humid where we live, but not Florida-style humidity.
Yes, HardiePlank does well in humid areas. Painted surfaces on the other hand do not. This is not to say you can't have painted surfaces on the east coast. Chances are you will not get the longer lifetime from your paint as you would in more arid states. It's still very doable.

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lthenderson
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Re: re-siding house - vinyl or hardiplank?

Post by lthenderson » Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:54 am

I resided my current house with hardiplank and all one has to do to see the difference is walk around the outside of a house with vinyl siding and one with hardiplank. It is literally like seeing the difference between anything made of plastic and one made of concrete. The one advantage to doing vinyl, it is it possible to uninstall and reinstall at a later date if you were remodeling. I don't think this outweighs the many drawbacks of vinyl but is worth considering if you have future remodeling plans.

As for the discussion on the length limit on hardiplank, two of us had a hard time carrying 12 feet long hardiplank boards without breaking them, and I think it would be darn near impossible for lengths of 20 feet long or more. They just don't bend very much before breaking but yet want to flex due to their weight while carrying them. If you could come up with some way to get a piece of it on your garage 50 feet long, it would stay up there just fine forever but the trick is getting it up there in the first place. I imagine it would be a six man job at least.

miles monroe
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Re: re-siding house - vinyl or hardiplank?

Post by miles monroe » Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:00 am

pre painted hardi here. not supposed to need painting for 15 years which i didn't believe -- but 5 years later it still looks as good as the day it was installed. now i believe.

the contractor told me that pre painted is superior as it is always the perfect temperature and humidity in the factory -- and when you paint on the job site ya don't know what type of conditions you're gonna have.

BIGal
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Re: re-siding house - vinyl or hardiplank?

Post by BIGal » Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:02 am

Why limit yourself to only those two? We also live in the midwest and had steel (continuous) installed when the house was built in 1997. My opinion, steel is the better choice unless you want an inferior product. Why not get an estimate? Since you are in the midwest, we used ABC Siding and would recommend them, and no, I have no affiliation. Good Luck

DetroitRick
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Re: re-siding house - vinyl or hardiplank?

Post by DetroitRick » Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:02 am

Our experience with James Hardie has been excellent, and we would do it again. We're in Michigan (snow, rain, hot, cold) and installed in August of 2005. Specifically installed the James Hardie Select Cedar Mill product - 7" lap siding with factory-applied finish (prime + finish coat). Still looks good, still does not need paint (they guaranteed finish for 15 years before painting needed, and there was also a 30 year two-coat finish option available back then). Totally satisfied and would do it again.

The closest thing to any kind of problem we had related to 2 small spots where siding touched porch and deck. I.E. Peeling paint because this siding really shouldn't be installed directly on grade. We're talking less than 5 linear feet in total, and I successfully repaired myself in 10 minutes, once. Other than that, perfect. Looks good and performs far better than the LP lap siding that it replaced.

When we did the siding job, we added house wrap (Tyvek) for a nominal cost. Collectively, after the job was done, house seemed much tighter.

Vinyl wasn't an option for us - we are site condos and vinyl isn't permitted. So we didn't compare or research further. I get the impression that vinyl quality has come a long way since the 70's, but don't know much about it.

DetroitRick
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Re: re-siding house - vinyl or hardiplank?

Post by DetroitRick » Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:08 am

One more comment - whatever you decide, pay great attention to installer quality. Check out their work in person. I've seen siding, including Hardiplank, that doesn't look great simply because installer didn't do basics like stagger butt joints and other minor stuff. Installation quality matters.

I spent some time looking at completed installs before signing the contract - it was worth those few hours of time.

chevca
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Re: re-siding house - vinyl or hardiplank?

Post by chevca » Mon Mar 05, 2018 11:26 am

tibbitts wrote:
Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:50 am
Windylotus wrote:
Mon Mar 05, 2018 4:26 am
tibbitts wrote:
Sun Mar 04, 2018 8:04 pm
I don't have Hardi but the concern I would have is with the fact that it's only available in short lengths. I don't understand why it doesn't come in lengths up to common transportation limits (basically the length a tractor-trailer can carry - 53ft?) Nobody wants seams. I've read the documentation for doing seams and... like I said, nobody wants seams.
And how would you propose a few guys on ladders two stories up in the air, would install such a long piece of HardiePlank? Not to mention weight. No offence tibbitts but, you obviously have no experience in construction. Seams are a part of life. Hardie still expands and contracts (less than vinyl) so you need seems. There is a small gap in between seems to allow for this. If you installed a 53 foot piece of Hardie tight to two corners, it would buckle over time. Everything moves, including concrete siding!

OP, Yes HardiePlank all the way. I have installed lots of both. Vinyl is popular back east with high humidity but mid-west you should be good to go with HardiePlank. Very durable if done correctly.
I never claimed to have any experience in construction but if low-tech siding can be designed such that it can span my two-car garage why can't Hardi siding? Why would I replace something without seams with something with seams? You are probably correct that a more flexible material may required. Again try to get past the 53ft extreme example and concentrate on why would you replace siding without seams with siding with seams, if the former gave good service for, say, 30+ years? I'm sure some seams are necessary for engineering purposes but they are also obviously undesirable. Most of us aren't experienced enough to know whether the board is being installed correctly and several houses I know looked okay when the siding was new (but still with annoying seams), and then looked horrible a few years later.
You should probably just trust that the experts and all the R&D behind Hardi-plank know more than you do, and why and how many seems are necessary. A lot has happened in 30 years. :happy

StealthRabbit
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Re: re-siding house - vinyl or hardiplank?

Post by StealthRabbit » Mon Mar 05, 2018 3:43 pm

Siding choice is very dependent on;
Environment / climate
Home style
Overhang / protection
HOA and code requirements
Maint
Cost objectives....

Hardie was the worst investment / material choice I made on one of 30+ homes I built or remodeled.
In certain cases... it is ok.
I hope I never have to live inside another Hardie structure.

(Think high winds, freezing rain, and the thermal conductivity of 5/16” (8mm) thick concrete )

Burr, heat loss is immediate and sustained.

Burrrrr.

Ymmv

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deanbrew
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Re: re-siding house - vinyl or hardiplank?

Post by deanbrew » Mon Mar 05, 2018 5:12 pm

I know cement board (Hardie is just one brand) has been EXTREMELY popular for several years, but the fact that it needs painting is a HUGE downside IMO. In that respect, it's similar to owning a house with wood siding, isn't it? Hardie says it won't need painting for 15 years, but I'm curious if that is true. And what is the cost to have it repainted?
"The course of history shows that as the government grows, liberty decreases." Thomas Jefferson

BrianMc
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Re: re-siding house - vinyl or hardiplank?

Post by BrianMc » Mon Mar 05, 2018 5:52 pm

Have you considered LP Smartside? I don't think you can go wrong with LP, Hardie, and some insulated vinyl we looked at looked nice (LP and Hardie were near in price). I conducted a lot of research and the common theme is that with whatever brand you decide, proper installation is paramount. We're very happy with the results as it completely changed the look of our home. We had it installed last summer and it took a 2-3 man crew nearly five weeks, working 8+ hours per day, to conduct the tear off and installation. For those opposed to LP, I'm interested to hear your objections so I know what to look for in the years ahead. Regardless of what brand you go with, there are pros and cons to each. Good luck!

tibbitts
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Re: re-siding house - vinyl or hardiplank?

Post by tibbitts » Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:47 pm

chevca wrote:
Mon Mar 05, 2018 11:26 am
tibbitts wrote:
Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:50 am
Windylotus wrote:
Mon Mar 05, 2018 4:26 am
tibbitts wrote:
Sun Mar 04, 2018 8:04 pm
I don't have Hardi but the concern I would have is with the fact that it's only available in short lengths. I don't understand why it doesn't come in lengths up to common transportation limits (basically the length a tractor-trailer can carry - 53ft?) Nobody wants seams. I've read the documentation for doing seams and... like I said, nobody wants seams.
And how would you propose a few guys on ladders two stories up in the air, would install such a long piece of HardiePlank? Not to mention weight. No offence tibbitts but, you obviously have no experience in construction. Seams are a part of life. Hardie still expands and contracts (less than vinyl) so you need seems. There is a small gap in between seems to allow for this. If you installed a 53 foot piece of Hardie tight to two corners, it would buckle over time. Everything moves, including concrete siding!

OP, Yes HardiePlank all the way. I have installed lots of both. Vinyl is popular back east with high humidity but mid-west you should be good to go with HardiePlank. Very durable if done correctly.
I never claimed to have any experience in construction but if low-tech siding can be designed such that it can span my two-car garage why can't Hardi siding? Why would I replace something without seams with something with seams? You are probably correct that a more flexible material may required. Again try to get past the 53ft extreme example and concentrate on why would you replace siding without seams with siding with seams, if the former gave good service for, say, 30+ years? I'm sure some seams are necessary for engineering purposes but they are also obviously undesirable. Most of us aren't experienced enough to know whether the board is being installed correctly and several houses I know looked okay when the siding was new (but still with annoying seams), and then looked horrible a few years later.
You should probably just trust that the experts and all the R&D behind Hardi-plank know more than you do, and why and how many seems are necessary. A lot has happened in 30 years. :happy
Based on your theory, should we all trust the many "experts" who recommend high expense load funds and variable annuities? As with finances, you can only identify an expert by having almost enough knowledge to be on yourself. In any case, it still seems reasonable to wonder why the seamless steel I-beam that holds up your house can be 50ft long. The seamless gutter on the sides of your house can be 50ft... yet Hardie limits me to buying 12ft lengths. Forget 53, but not even 16, or 20? Some vinyl siding products advertise their greater length siding as having numerous advantages over 12ft lengths, although they're also very limited (but longer than 12ft.) Undeniably there are numerous reports of problems with Hardie seams, and even professional installers debate how to deal with the seams. Even Hardie has apparently changed its position on how to properly deal with the seams over the years.

Perhaps Hardie products are like the high yield bonds or commodities of the building materials world - we just have to accept that experts disagree.

chevca
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Re: re-siding house - vinyl or hardiplank?

Post by chevca » Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:47 am

Comparing mutual funds, steel I-beams, and aluminum gutters to siding.... :oops:

Some folks just don't know when to quit.

The gutters come in a roll of aluminum, get pressed through a machine, and can be made to length on site BTW, tibbitts. And, they're very light and easily hoisted to the top of the house.

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jharkin
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Re: re-siding house - vinyl or hardiplank?

Post by jharkin » Tue Mar 06, 2018 10:47 am

Hardie plank or real wood.
Fisher price toys get made out of plastic. Houses should not, in my (not)HMO.

I can see a house with vinyl on it a mile away and it just screams cheap with all those ugly j-channels. And even worse, the installers usually destroy the house character by cutting off old the decorative trim, and the windows that used to stand out as proud architectural features instead sink in as nothing but holes in the wall :oops:


Take a look, which one do you want to look at everyday?

Classic?
Image


... or plastic?
Image
credit: http://www.oldhouseguy.com/vinyl-siding/


Plus the vinyl fades over time, gets easily damaged in hail, can trap water behind it and damage the underlying structure if its not done right, and often when it gets damaged you have to do an entire re-siding job because the new material wont match the old due to the uv fading, or maybe you get unlucky and fads change and hte color you have is not available anymore. And then their are the stories of people having their vinyl siding melt due to reflected sunlight from the neighbors low-e windows.

Hardie should last a long time if done right, and even wood can be made to last nearly indefinitely if installed properly and maintained (paint) well.

pshonore
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Re: re-siding house - vinyl or hardiplank?

Post by pshonore » Tue Mar 06, 2018 10:57 am

CertainTeed now makes a shingle product out of polymer that looks great. Are those real shingles in the picture?

https://www.certainteed.com/siding/prod ... -shingles/

Windylotus
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Re: re-siding house - vinyl or hardiplank?

Post by Windylotus » Tue Mar 06, 2018 11:04 am

chevca wrote:
Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:47 am
Comparing mutual funds, steel I-beams, and aluminum gutters to siding.... :oops:

Some folks just don't know when to quit.
+1!!!

If you want seamless, stucco your house then.

Windylotus
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Re: re-siding house - vinyl or hardiplank?

Post by Windylotus » Tue Mar 06, 2018 11:08 am

jharkin wrote:
Tue Mar 06, 2018 10:47 am


Classic?
Image

High Maintenance


... or plastic?
Image
credit: http://www.oldhouseguy.com/vinyl-siding/

Low Maintenance

Pigeon
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Re: re-siding house - vinyl or hardiplank?

Post by Pigeon » Tue Mar 06, 2018 8:59 pm

deanbrew wrote:
Mon Mar 05, 2018 5:12 pm
I know cement board (Hardie is just one brand) has been EXTREMELY popular for several years, but the fact that it needs painting is a HUGE downside IMO. In that respect, it's similar to owning a house with wood siding, isn't it? Hardie says it won't need painting for 15 years, but I'm curious if that is true. And what is the cost to have it repainted?
We're looking at residing in a couple of years and the painting issue is huge as far as I'm concerned. I want to make everything in my house as maintenance-free as possible. Paying a premium for materials that require maintenance provides no value to me. I wouldn't mind the price of Hardie board, but the painting is a non-starter. I live in a neighborhood that's about 50% above median in a nice, but not luxurious suburb. Vinyl siding is pretty much the norm. The builder's grade siding on my house is about 35 years old and still looks pretty good. We'll upgrade to a nicer product, but not Hardie.

tibbitts
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Re: re-siding house - vinyl or hardiplank?

Post by tibbitts » Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:47 pm

chevca wrote:
Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:47 am
Comparing mutual funds, steel I-beams, and aluminum gutters to siding.... :oops:

Some folks just don't know when to quit.

The gutters come in a roll of aluminum, get pressed through a machine, and can be made to length on site BTW, tibbitts. And, they're very light and easily hoisted to the top of the house.
I don't agree with the "oops" at all. In fact I think the comparison is extraordinarily appropriate. You can't read all the contractor forums and not recognize the parallels between our experts debating the merits of high yield bonds and commodities, and experts on construction/contractor forums debating the pros and cons of various aspects of cement siding vs. competing products. Bogleheads might not all be aware of the complications of Hardie installation so I think it's important for everyone to understand the seam issues. Hardie competitors definitely promote their longer lengths (fewer seams) as an advantage, and market their products accordingly.

I mentioned the I-beam specifically as an example that longer-than-12ft building materials can be delivered to most residences, and the gutter example to address the issue of being able to handle longer materials once on-site. I agree that cement siding is heavier than typical gutters, although I believe copper gutters can be more than half the weight per foot of cement siding. I agree that the gutter example alone would not have addressed the transportation issue - as it happens I had seamless gutters produced (again, unfortunately) at my house just a week ago.

ifish100
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Re: re-siding house - vinyl or hardiplank?

Post by ifish100 » Tue Mar 06, 2018 10:39 pm

My previous house had T-111 wood siding and wood windows. Lots of maintenance in particular the windows. Painting windows about every 3 years, siding every 5-7 years. I had it down to an art repainting in 3 days with my electric sprayer and power roller back brushing it, using high quality paint.

Current house has vinyl siding I installed new 14 years ago, and vinyl windows. It still looks really good just some fading on the South facing side. I really like the low maintenance, I have not had any problems with it and we live in a very windy area. No maintenance on it so far, just wash it usually twice a year due to messy trees and the area tends to get mold on the North side of the house, all of the houses do that regardless of siding. The other nice thing about vinyl is it cleans very easily.

A friend put Hardi on he likes it. I could see it is quieter, and may look less "cheap", although this area really is not an area of "house snobs". This area has a very low supply of houses and I doubt it would hurt the value much to have vinyl. Neighbors have cedar and they have stained it twice with my vinyl having no maintenance.

So I would say perhaps Hardi is better, but vinyl has certainly been good for me, it is better than the T111 for sure.

Sandi_k
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Re: re-siding house - vinyl or hardiplank?

Post by Sandi_k » Wed Mar 07, 2018 12:41 am

We had T-111 siding on our house, and the trim was rotted right through.

We looked at Hardie, and the reviews concerning edges and friability were a concern. Ditto problems with installation.

So did a classic 3-layer stucco instead. Better insulation, noise reduction, improved window fit...and no painting required.

Utahdogowner
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Re: re-siding house - vinyl or hardiplank?

Post by Utahdogowner » Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:19 pm

mrc wrote:
Sun Mar 04, 2018 5:10 pm
We re-sided our vinyl 2 story colonial with Hardy. Much nicer living now. Quieter in the wind. Looks brand new. Hail proof. Doesn't come loose in high winds. We also added OSB sheathing and house wrap. Original build omitted the wrap and had sheathing only on the corners. You could have broken into our house through the wall (vinyl + 1" polystyrene board + 4" fiberglass + 1/2" drywall) with a utility knife. :oops:
That seems criminal. Is it really to code?

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