Consumer Reports Auto Issue Out now

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dm200
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Consumer Reports Auto Issue Out now

Post by dm200 » Sat Mar 03, 2018 2:54 pm

Just received mine in the mail today. :)

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Re: Consumer Reports Auto Issue Out now

Post by tomd37 » Sat Mar 03, 2018 3:23 pm

Waiting on my mail now and I am very interested in this particular issue as I am thinking of a new SUV. Only wish there was more options for a pure station wagon. Thought I might be interested in the new 2018 Buick Regal Tour X station wagon that just arrived in the showrooms, but was disappointed in it. :(
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Re: Consumer Reports Auto Issue Out now

Post by grabiner » Sat Mar 03, 2018 9:06 pm

tomd37 wrote:
Sat Mar 03, 2018 3:23 pm
Waiting on my mail now and I am very interested in this particular issue as I am thinking of a new SUV. Only wish there was more options for a pure station wagon. Thought I might be interested in the new 2018 Buick Regal Tour X station wagon that just arrived in the showrooms, but was disappointed in it. :(
I waited for the auto issue last year when I was planning to buy a car. However, I found that the web site was much more useful, both in the detail in comparing cars, and in suggesting which options and trim lines to prefer.
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munemaker
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Re: Consumer Reports Auto Issue Out now

Post by munemaker » Thu Mar 08, 2018 1:15 pm

Thanks for the alert. I am not a subscriber but picked up a copy at the supermarket. A lot of good reading if you are interested in cars.

As usual, Fiat was last and Jeep was second to last. Another regular in the basement is Land Rover. None of the Fiats or Jeeps are recommended. Individual models are at the bottom of every category they are in...Jeep Grand Cherokee, Jeep Renegade Latitude, Jeep Cherokee, all in the cellar. Jeep Compass Latitude actually scored better than a couple other models.

I understand why people buy Fiats...they are cheap. But what about Jeeps and Land Rovers? Why do people buy these stinkers?

Nice to see the quality of some German car brands improving. Audi is number 2, BMW number 3 and Porsche #5.

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Re: Consumer Reports Auto Issue Out now

Post by mountain-lion » Thu Mar 08, 2018 1:42 pm

But what about Jeeps and Land Rovers? Why do people buy these stinkers?
Because a modern Fiat is more reliable than the average car just 10 years ago.

JD Power IQS
--------
2017 Fiat: 163 (worst in the industry)
2008 Industry Average: 206

I realize that jdpower has it's problems, but even accounting for all of those, if you thought that a 2008 Honda was very reliable, then a 2017 Fiat is better--and not by just a little bit.

And if you could dig up the stats from 1998, it would be even more dramatic.

Modern cars are extremely reliable, and the point of diminishing marginal returns is close.

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Re: Consumer Reports Auto Issue Out now

Post by munemaker » Thu Mar 08, 2018 2:00 pm

mountain-lion wrote:
Thu Mar 08, 2018 1:42 pm
But what about Jeeps and Land Rovers? Why do people buy these stinkers?
Because a modern Fiat is more reliable than the average car just 10 years ago.

I believe that, but still, wouldn't you want to buy something that is at least average in reliability by today's standards? Think about how much everything has improved in the last 10 years.

I am thinking it is kind of like investing. Most people don't put much thought or research into the decision. People probably just buy based on looks or image or whatever.

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Re: Consumer Reports Auto Issue Out now

Post by jackholloway » Thu Mar 08, 2018 2:54 pm

munemaker wrote:
Thu Mar 08, 2018 2:00 pm
mountain-lion wrote:
Thu Mar 08, 2018 1:42 pm
But what about Jeeps and Land Rovers? Why do people buy these stinkers?
Because a modern Fiat is more reliable than the average car just 10 years ago.

I believe that, but still, wouldn't you want to buy something that is at least average in reliability by today's standards? Think about how much everything has improved in the last 10 years.

I am thinking it is kind of like investing. Most people don't put much thought or research into the decision. People probably just buy based on looks or image or whatever.
They are different objectives. When you invest, you either have more money or you don’t, and the path you took to get there doesn’t really matter as much as the outcome. With a car the experience matters during the Erik’s of ownership. If I choose to an Alfa Romeo and enjoy my cool ride for the two days out of three that works I still might consider it a positive experience.

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Re: Consumer Reports Auto Issue Out now

Post by denovo » Thu Mar 08, 2018 3:18 pm

dm200 wrote:
Sat Mar 03, 2018 2:54 pm
Just received mine in the mail today. :)
What's mail :D
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Re: Consumer Reports Auto Issue Out now

Post by dm200 » Thu Mar 08, 2018 3:22 pm

denovo wrote:
Thu Mar 08, 2018 3:18 pm
dm200 wrote:
Sat Mar 03, 2018 2:54 pm
Just received mine in the mail today. :)
What's mail :D
I also wear an analog watch that I wind twice a day.

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Re: Consumer Reports Auto Issue Out now

Post by TravelGeek » Thu Mar 08, 2018 3:53 pm

denovo wrote:
Thu Mar 08, 2018 3:18 pm
dm200 wrote:
Sat Mar 03, 2018 2:54 pm
Just received mine in the mail today. :)
What's mail :D
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Re: Consumer Reports Auto Issue Out now

Post by HRPennypacker » Thu Mar 08, 2018 4:44 pm

mountain-lion wrote:
Thu Mar 08, 2018 1:42 pm
Modern cars are extremely reliable, and the point of diminishing marginal returns is close.
Wow, are we really at this point? I must be getting old. Serious question.

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Re: Consumer Reports Auto Issue Out now

Post by htdrag11 » Thu Mar 08, 2018 4:55 pm

I wish. Modern cars have lots of electronics.

My highly rated 2018 Outback Limited 2.5 has power liftgate and Android Auto.

1. Either Android Auto crashed my optional HK sound system or my Android cellphone crashed once. Needed to go back to the dealer to reset; cannot do it from home (so they said).

2. My power liftgate (DW wants it) is strictly automatic; use it manually at my own risk. Sometimes I can press the button to release the gate from inside, but not 100%. It's not worth my time to go back to the dealer until the 6k miles mark.

Granted, neither malfunctions got me stranded but would hate to drive a long trip without music.

BTW, my watch is also analog, the automatic kind without replacing batteries.

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Re: Consumer Reports Auto Issue Out now

Post by Slacker » Thu Mar 08, 2018 5:07 pm

munemaker wrote:
Thu Mar 08, 2018 1:15 pm
I understand why people buy Fiats...they are cheap. But what about Jeeps and Land Rovers? Why do people buy these stinkers?
Land Rover - image. They are expensive, so most people that desire them don't care about a higher failure rate, they are more concerned with image.

Jeep (esp Wrangler) - near religious experience for the owners. Even if they never go rock crawling (or maybe went once several years ago before they had kids and a busy life) they buy based on the idea of "one day, I can go on any terrain". See Jim Gaffigan's skit on trucks and truck owners.

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Re: Consumer Reports Auto Issue Out now

Post by jlpifco » Thu Mar 08, 2018 5:30 pm

I agree with the observation that the reliability of older cars is inferior to current production. I traded in a 2013 Honda Accord and replaced it with a 2018 Fiat Spider Lusso. The Honda had experienced dead battery issues, slipping CVT, loose items in doors causing noise, and other minor issues. The Fiat has been 100% problem free. I already have many more miles on the Fiat than the Honda when the problems occurred. Added bonus is the little Fiat is a lot of fun to drive. I stopped reading consumer reports after several cases of their reviews being inconsistent with real life performance (to put it kindly).

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Re: Consumer Reports Auto Issue Out now

Post by mountain-lion » Fri Mar 09, 2018 11:23 am

htdrag11 wrote:
Thu Mar 08, 2018 4:55 pm
I wish. Modern cars have lots of electronics.
Statistically, they are still much more reliable than the cars of decades past. Even with the electronics. That doesn't mean no one will have problems though. But, you were more likely to have a problem with your Honda in 2008 than your Fiat in 2017.
HRPennypacker wrote:
Thu Mar 08, 2018 4:44 pm
mountain-lion wrote:
Thu Mar 08, 2018 1:42 pm
Modern cars are extremely reliable, and the point of diminishing marginal returns is close.
Wow, are we really at this point? I must be getting old. Serious question.
I should have been a little more precise--cars still have problems with reliability, and there are still models with bad records. But from brand to brand, the worst today is better than the best twenty years ago. If you think to yourself, "Man my 1998 Honda was so great. Ultra reliable!" Then you can literally buy any brand on the market today and expect to have a better experience.

Car buyers make purchasing decisions based on various axes: reliability, fun-to-drive, utility, style, gas mileage, number of seats, and whatever else. For most cars today, the quality angle is so far under control that the others can take a far more prominent role than they used to.

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Re: Consumer Reports Auto Issue Out now

Post by Jack FFR1846 » Fri Mar 09, 2018 11:33 am

munemaker wrote:
Thu Mar 08, 2018 1:15 pm

I understand why people buy Fiats...they are cheap. But what about Jeeps and Land Rovers? Why do people buy these stinkers?
I have a Wrangler Unlimited that I bought new in 2014, ordered from the factory. Rear limited slip, hard roof, automatic. No other options. My needs: Must be full frame and able to fit a Curtis snow plow frame on it. Must be 4 door, fully enclosed (not a pickup) to fit people and stuff in securely. Must have "real" 4 wheel drive (getting stuck while plowing is not fun). The smaller the better. Being a convertible, while not a requirement is a plus. And the kicker......would like it to hold its value better than almost any other vehicle on the market vs what I paid (which was many thousands under MSRP and some thousands under tru car).

As much as I like the new Civic R, it's sort of hard to plow my driveway with one. Oh, and "Jeep Wave", which you wouldn't know because you don't have a Wrangler. I don't understand why people buy Fiats.
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Re: Consumer Reports Auto Issue Out now

Post by cusetownusa » Fri Mar 09, 2018 11:35 am

munemaker wrote:
Thu Mar 08, 2018 1:15 pm
Thanks for the alert. I am not a subscriber but picked up a copy at the supermarket. A lot of good reading if you are interested in cars.

As usual, Fiat was last and Jeep was second to last. Another regular in the basement is Land Rover. None of the Fiats or Jeeps are recommended. Individual models are at the bottom of every category they are in...Jeep Grand Cherokee, Jeep Renegade Latitude, Jeep Cherokee, all in the cellar. Jeep Compass Latitude actually scored better than a couple other models.

I understand why people buy Fiats...they are cheap. But what about Jeeps and Land Rovers? Why do people buy these stinkers?

Nice to see the quality of some German car brands improving. Audi is number 2, BMW number 3 and Porsche #5.
I love my 2012 Jeep Grand Cherokee and I definitely don't consider it a stinker. Although, I have only had it for 6.5 years so my opinion my change after 5 or 10 more years of owning it.

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Re: Consumer Reports Auto Issue Out now

Post by btenny » Fri Mar 09, 2018 12:26 pm

Another jeep lover here. Have a 1999 grand Cherokee that has been great. 120K miles and still runs and looks good. Not many repairs in 15 years of ownership. Plus this jeep pulls my 6000 pound boat and goes over 2 foot snow berms and rides nice for 4 people out to dinner. No other suv does this unless it is a giant truck. Jeep Grand Cherokee is just right size and toughness.

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Re: Consumer Reports Auto Issue Out now

Post by stoptothink » Fri Mar 09, 2018 12:35 pm

htdrag11 wrote:
Thu Mar 08, 2018 4:55 pm
I wish. Modern cars have lots of electronics.

My highly rated 2018 Outback Limited 2.5 has power liftgate and Android Auto.

1. Either Android Auto crashed my optional HK sound system or my Android cellphone crashed once. Needed to go back to the dealer to reset; cannot do it from home (so they said).

2. My power liftgate (DW wants it) is strictly automatic; use it manually at my own risk. Sometimes I can press the button to release the gate from inside, but not 100%. It's not worth my time to go back to the dealer until the 6k miles mark.

Granted, neither malfunctions got me stranded but would hate to drive a long trip without music.

BTW, my watch is also analog, the automatic kind without replacing batteries.
Interesting, my brother literally bought the exact same car a few weeks ago and has had the same issues (and then some, he's also had issues with the eyesight). He loves how it drives, but is losing his mind about all the electronic problems. It hasn't even been a month and he's already insistent that he'll never buy a Subaru again.

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Re: Consumer Reports Auto Issue Out now

Post by Frugal Al » Sat Mar 10, 2018 7:33 am

jlpifco wrote:
Thu Mar 08, 2018 5:30 pm
I agree with the observation that the reliability of older cars is inferior to current production. I traded in a 2013 Honda Accord and replaced it with a 2018 Fiat Spider Lusso. The Honda had experienced dead battery issues, slipping CVT, loose items in doors causing noise, and other minor issues. The Fiat has been 100% problem free.
Any vehicle can have problems, but I have to question equating overall quality between Fiat and Honda. Besides, most of your Fiat Spider is a Mazda Miata, save for the engine, and it's built on the Mazda production line in Hiroshima. Miatas have always been reliable.

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Re: Consumer Reports Auto Issue Out now

Post by munemaker » Sat Mar 10, 2018 7:58 am

Frugal Al wrote:
Sat Mar 10, 2018 7:33 am
jlpifco wrote:
Thu Mar 08, 2018 5:30 pm
I agree with the observation that the reliability of older cars is inferior to current production. I traded in a 2013 Honda Accord and replaced it with a 2018 Fiat Spider Lusso. The Honda had experienced dead battery issues, slipping CVT, loose items in doors causing noise, and other minor issues. The Fiat has been 100% problem free.
Any vehicle can have problems, but I have to question equating overall quality between Fiat and Honda. Besides, most of your Fiat Spider is a Mazda Miata, save for the engine, and it's built on the Mazda production line in Hiroshima. Miatas have always been reliable.
Agree. The Fiat Spider Lusso is not representative of Fiat quality. A 2018 car being 100% problem free doesn't mean much. Many of the least reliable cars can probably make that claim. Report back on your experience in 10 years (if I am still here).

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Re: Consumer Reports Auto Issue Out now

Post by JoeRetire » Sat Mar 10, 2018 8:30 am

dm200 wrote:
Sat Mar 03, 2018 2:54 pm
Just received mine in the mail today. :)
I use the copy in my local Library.

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Re: Consumer Reports Auto Issue Out now

Post by cinghiale » Sat Mar 10, 2018 9:10 am

What kind of evaluations is the Toyota RAV4 getting?

(Just allowing the Jeep owners to take a quick breather...)
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Re: Consumer Reports Auto Issue Out now

Post by Bacchus01 » Sat Mar 10, 2018 9:25 am

I am on my fourth Grand Cherokee. I retired my ‘93 limited with 4.0L with about 170k miles on the odometer and never had it in the shop for a major repair. I retired my ‘97 Laredo with 4.0L with more than 150K miles on the odometer and never had it in the shop for a major repair. I retired my ‘07 limited with a Hemi at around 100k miles because I just couldn’t live any longer with the horrendous gas mileage. Was in the shop one time for a steering hose repair under warranty. I now have a ‘17 Grand Cherokee Trailhawk I bought new in August and just turned 20K miles. Why? It’s comfortable without being too big, it gets reasonable gas mileage (22mpg, mostly highway), it can tow about 6,000 lbs, it can go just about anywhere, and it was still less expensive than just about any other SUV with similar options. Something like a Highlander is nice and I know it’ll likely be more reliable, but it doesn’t have the performance of a Jeep. It isn’t even close.

That said, I did buy the extended warranty to 125K miles and will likely flip it out around 100K miles.

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Re: Consumer Reports Auto Issue Out now

Post by UpperNwGuy » Sat Mar 10, 2018 9:26 am

My father gave me his copy of the new Consumer Reports auto issue when it arrived a few days ago since he won't ever buy another car (he's 96 and happy with his 2005 Corolla).

I immediately looked up Camry, Corolla, Accord, and Civic as they are four of the most popular cars on the market. I was surprised to see that Consumers Report prefers the two Toyota products to Honda whereas US News and World Report prefers Honda to Toyota. And in both publications the gap was quite large between the brand they preferred to the one they didn't.

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Re: Consumer Reports Auto Issue Out now

Post by dm200 » Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:51 am

UpperNwGuy wrote:
Sat Mar 10, 2018 9:26 am
My father gave me his copy of the new Consumer Reports auto issue when it arrived a few days ago since he won't ever buy another car (he's 96 and happy with his 2005 Corolla).
I immediately looked up Camry, Corolla, Accord, and Civic as they are four of the most popular cars on the market. I was surprised to see that Consumers Report prefers the two Toyota products to Honda whereas US News and World Report prefers Honda to Toyota. And in both publications the gap was quite large between the brand they preferred to the one they didn't.
Interesting.. Must be a difference in the factors? I wonder how extensively and impartially US News evaluates vehicles?

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Re: Consumer Reports Auto Issue Out now

Post by friar1610 » Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:56 am

UpperNwGuy wrote:
Sat Mar 10, 2018 9:26 am

I immediately looked up Camry, Corolla, Accord, and Civic as they are four of the most popular cars on the market. I was surprised to see that Consumers Report prefers the two Toyota products to Honda whereas US News and World Report prefers Honda to Toyota. And in both publications the gap was quite large between the brand they preferred to the one they didn't.
I suspect this is somewhat like what Taylor Larimore has often said about investment A vs. investment B as touted by different investment sages: when experts disagree between the alternatives it probably doesn't really make any difference.
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Re: Consumer Reports Auto Issue Out now

Post by Gort » Sat Mar 10, 2018 11:00 am

dm200 wrote:
Thu Mar 08, 2018 3:22 pm
denovo wrote:
Thu Mar 08, 2018 3:18 pm
dm200 wrote:
Sat Mar 03, 2018 2:54 pm
Just received mine in the mail today. :)
What's mail :D
I also wear an analog watch that I wind twice a day.
How do you remember to wind it? :happy

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dm200
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Re: Consumer Reports Auto Issue Out now

Post by dm200 » Sat Mar 10, 2018 11:07 am

Gort wrote:
Sat Mar 10, 2018 11:00 am
dm200 wrote:
Thu Mar 08, 2018 3:22 pm
denovo wrote:
Thu Mar 08, 2018 3:18 pm
dm200 wrote:
Sat Mar 03, 2018 2:54 pm
Just received mine in the mail today. :)
What's mail :D
I also wear an analog watch that I wind twice a day.
How do you remember to wind it? :happy
When I get up and when I go to bed :)

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Re: Consumer Reports Auto Issue Out now

Post by William4u » Sat Mar 10, 2018 11:13 am

friar1610 wrote:
Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:56 am
UpperNwGuy wrote:
Sat Mar 10, 2018 9:26 am

I immediately looked up Camry, Corolla, Accord, and Civic as they are four of the most popular cars on the market. I was surprised to see that Consumers Report prefers the two Toyota products to Honda whereas US News and World Report prefers Honda to Toyota. And in both publications the gap was quite large between the brand they preferred to the one they didn't.
I suspect this is somewhat like what Taylor Larimore has often said about investment A vs. investment B as touted by different investment sages: when experts disagree between the alternatives it probably doesn't really make any difference.
CR priorities safety and reliability more (e.g., unlike Honda, Toyota has emergency braking with front cameras and radar as standard on all cars; for Honda it requires a high trim for the same safety). By most all measures Toyotas are more reliable.

USNews prioritizes drive fun and handling more. Using different standards while interpreting the same data plays a role. Also, CR is nonprofit and takes no money from advertisers (so who knows how that plays a role).

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Re: Consumer Reports Auto Issue Out now

Post by Go Blue 99 » Sat Mar 10, 2018 11:24 am

It's a common theme on this board (and others) that German brands are unreliable. But now CR has Audi at #2 and BMW at #3? I've stayed away from German brands in the past, but I'll definitely look at them if quality is that high now.
Last edited by Go Blue 99 on Sat Mar 10, 2018 11:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

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dm200
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Re: Consumer Reports Auto Issue Out now

Post by dm200 » Sat Mar 10, 2018 11:26 am

Also, CR is nonprofit and takes no money from advertisers (so who knows how that plays a role).


Yes -- and CR buys test vehicles in a way that is "blind" to the auto industry.

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Re: Consumer Reports Auto Issue Out now

Post by Teague » Sat Mar 10, 2018 11:32 am

I wish. Modern cars have lots of electronics.
So do commercial airliners. But one hardly ever sees them stuck on the side of the road.
Semper Augustus

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Re: Consumer Reports Auto Issue Out now

Post by rocket354 » Sat Mar 10, 2018 11:36 am

munemaker wrote:
Sat Mar 10, 2018 7:58 am
Agree. The Fiat Spider Lusso is not representative of Fiat quality. A 2018 car being 100% problem free doesn't mean much. Many of the least reliable cars can probably make that claim. Report back on your experience in 10 years (if I am still here).
This is key. Any car should be mostly problem free the first year or two. For me, the true question of reliability is answered in years, say, 8-15. Unfortunately, we don't know how 2018 model-year cars will fare by that metric. But if you look at vehicles made 8-15 years ago, then Toyota and Honda dominate. And, by my recollection, going back 8-15 years proponents of every model that historically had poor reliability were saying the same things as today--"reliability has improved dramatically in recent years! it no longer makes a difference! See, look at JD Power's initial quality!"

Anecdotal evidence is not convincing, either. Any car can have issues; any car can run flawlessly for 200k miles. Go over to truedelta.com if you want to see how different brands compare in different eras. I can't tell you how today's cars will fare 8+ years out, but I do know which brands I am willing to put my money in.

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Re: Consumer Reports Auto Issue Out now

Post by Spirit Rider » Sat Mar 10, 2018 12:08 pm

Go Blue 99 wrote:
Sat Mar 10, 2018 11:24 am
It's a common theme on this board (and others) that German brands are unreliable. But now CR has Audi at #2 and BMW at #3? I've stayed away from German brands in the past, but I'll definitely look at them if quality is that high now.
The German's have been generally improving their quality over the last several years. However, remember there is a big difference between under warranty reliability and out of warranty reliability. The German's have definitely improved the former, school's out on the latter.

Most of the pople I know who have German cars, either lease or buy extended warranties for just this reason. Maybe the quality has improved enough so that is not necessary. Who knows, I still wouldn't be inclined to buy a German car if I planned on keeping the car for a 8 years+ or 120K miles+.

Also, I have always considered the CR annual car issue as very valuable, but for the detail in the specific car reviews. I consider their rankings on cars and every other product useless. This is true of any ranking system based on arbitrary weightings of mostly subjective criteria. The fact that they use this in some deterministic mathematical "model" is beyond laughable.

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Re: Consumer Reports Auto Issue Out now

Post by rgs92 » Sat Mar 10, 2018 12:23 pm

The issues with Eurocars is that all sorts of little things go wrong once they get about 40K miles on them and then every year or so (from my experience) you end up with multi-thousand dollar repair bills (like $3K to $6K) from the dealer. At least that was my problem with my Benzes.

And if you read the car forums, you will see this reported frequently. CR just doesn't seem to take stock in all the anecdotal evidence out there on the internet. They just rigorously stick to their surveys from subscribers for long-term data on cars.

I don't know why, but often their survey data seems at odds with real-world experience.

And also, their own car impressions (like comfort and driving experience) are just as subjective as anyone's, and there are millions of impressions on youtube and the myriad of auto sites. I don't know why they CR ratings are treated like Gospel.

Maybe 40 years ago, they were the only game in town for car ratings, but nowadays, I think you are better off reading internet forums to get the larger picture and try to get a consensus opinion about a car. And you will get MUCH more detail about what a car is like than CR's often superficial descriptions.

One forum I like is the Lexus forum, where people chime in about all sorts of different luxury cars from all over the world.

And one nit-pick I have with Consumer Reports is their reports on seat-comfort. It is very driver (and passenger) dependent. They say a car has an excellent drivers seat and driving position and I will go try it and find it horrible. It's very subjective. And they don't delve into why comfort is good or bad beyond some quick comment about it being supportive. How about legroom/headroom/seat height/range of adjustments/padding/materials, etc?
Those things make all the difference and they can't be exactly measured.

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Re: Consumer Reports Auto Issue Out now

Post by letsgobobby » Sat Mar 10, 2018 12:59 pm

I bought one of the lowest rated vehicles in the survey (a RAM truck). No other vehicle could do what this does and I've had no problems with it the first year. Amazing machine. That said I don't plan to put many miles on it so I hope that minimizes future repairs in any case.

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Re: Consumer Reports Auto Issue Out now

Post by JoeRetire » Sat Mar 10, 2018 1:03 pm

Teague wrote:
Sat Mar 10, 2018 11:32 am
I wish. Modern cars have lots of electronics.
So do commercial airliners. But one hardly ever sees them stuck on the side of the road.
Fair point.

On the other hand I seldom see modern cars delayed on the tarmac.

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Re: Consumer Reports Auto Issue Out now

Post by MarkBarb » Sat Mar 10, 2018 1:26 pm

I find most cars to be more reliable than CR. Every time I read a review in CR about something for which I have a lot of knowledge, I'm appalled by how badly CR reviews things. I've found their information to be subpar at best.

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Re: Consumer Reports Auto Issue Out now

Post by friar1610 » Sat Mar 10, 2018 3:10 pm

MarkBarb wrote:
Sat Mar 10, 2018 1:26 pm
I find most cars to be more reliable than CR. Every time I read a review in CR about something for which I have a lot of knowledge, I'm appalled by how badly CR reviews things. I've found their information to be subpar at best.
Anecdotally, this most recent issue lists the 2011 Buick Regal as a used car to avoid. I bought one new in 2011, have done nothing but routine maintenance and have had great reliability with it for 80K miles. Of course, now that I've said so publicly, I suppose I'm in for big problems. :oops:
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Re: Consumer Reports Auto Issue Out now

Post by Alexa9 » Sat Mar 10, 2018 3:22 pm

I take CR with a grain of salt. Look at Chevy ads with their initial quality rating claims. Initially it’s great but then it breaks down? Hard to judge long term reliability on new cars. Some things don’t pop up until past 100k miles. So you have to look at the old cars still on the road (mostly Honda and Toyota) to see which cars are reliable past 10 years/100k miles.

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Re: Consumer Reports Auto Issue Out now

Post by TravelGeek » Sat Mar 10, 2018 3:33 pm

friar1610 wrote:
Sat Mar 10, 2018 3:10 pm
Anecdotally, this most recent issue lists the 2011 Buick Regal as a used car to avoid. I bought one new in 2011, have done nothing but routine maintenance and have had great reliability with it for 80K miles. Of course, now that I've said so publicly, I suppose I'm in for big problems. :oops:
Well, I think the key word here is “anecdotally” because I don’t think they made the claim that every single 2011 Buick Regal is going to have problems. From what I understand, it is statistically (based on user responses) more likely to have issues than other vehicles. I will have to look at the magazine at my library one of these days to find out if they are more specific regarding the likelihood of vehicles experiencing problems.

For those with the magazine in hand, do they by any chance have any opinion on the new 2018 Nissan LEAF yet?

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Re: Consumer Reports Auto Issue Out now

Post by grabiner » Sat Mar 10, 2018 3:36 pm

friar1610 wrote:
Sat Mar 10, 2018 3:10 pm
MarkBarb wrote:
Sat Mar 10, 2018 1:26 pm
I find most cars to be more reliable than CR.
Anecdotally, this most recent issue lists the 2011 Buick Regal as a used car to avoid. I bought one new in 2011, have done nothing but routine maintenance and have had great reliability with it for 80K miles. Of course, now that I've said so publicly, I suppose I'm in for big problems. :oops:
CR has a much large sample size than you do, and that is what makes the reliability numbers meaningful. I estimate from the chart reference that the average five-year-old car reports 0.26 problems. Therefore, it isn't surprising that you find most cars reliable; even if you have a five-year-old car which CR says is unreliable, it is more likely than not that you won't have had a problem.

The purpose of the reliability records is to allow you to reduce the risk you buy a lemon. Every model includes some lemons, but some models have many more lemons than others. A good analogy is investing in bonds; most BBB-rated bonds don't default, but since a few of them do, investors are willing to pay significantly less for a BBB-rated bond than for a AAA-rated bond which promises the same payments.
Wiki David Grabiner

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Re: Consumer Reports Auto Issue Out now

Post by TravelGeek » Sat Mar 10, 2018 3:42 pm

William4u wrote:
Sat Mar 10, 2018 11:13 am
USNews prioritizes drive fun and handling more. Using different standards while interpreting the same data plays a role.
Do they? They don’t even own or ever drive the cars they rank and rate.

https://cars.usnews.com/methodology
Our new car rankings are based on a consensus of America's top automotive experts, as well as safety and reliability data. The rankings do not rely on our own tests or U.S. News editors' preferences.

We combine two types of information: published reviews from respected automotive critics and safety and reliability data from third-party sources.

For each new car in the U.S. News rankings, our editors analyze credible reviews about the new car to assign a score that represents what professional critics say about it. The reviews are gathered from major newspapers, magazines and automotive websites.

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Re: Consumer Reports Auto Issue Out now

Post by Sockpuppet » Sat Mar 10, 2018 3:50 pm

munemaker wrote:
Thu Mar 08, 2018 1:15 pm


I understand why people buy Fiats...they are cheap. But what about Jeeps and Land Rovers? Why do people buy these stinkers?
So I own a Jeep Renegade which is made in Italy by Fiat...so I should be getting the worst of both worlds.

I purchased a Renegade - even knowing there would likely be reliability issues and I wouldn’t own the vehicle as long as my previous Toyota.

The big factors for me were price and size. Starting a new family, I wanted an SUV but needed it to be less than 20K. I was able to negotiate the Renegade down to 17K Out the Door which was less than what I could get Toyota to sell me a Tiny Yaris for or a Used RAV 4 with heavy mileage.

Through Geico I get a very inexpensive automotive repair insurance (about $120 a year...can cancel anytime...covers everything after deductible) to cover me when the bumper to bumper insurance expires.

But as of right now at 33K miles, I’ve had no issues. I really love my car and hope it continues to be reliable.

But in short, I purchased a Jeep/Fiat after doing the cost benefit of price, size, and reliability.

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Re: Consumer Reports Auto Issue Out now

Post by Toons » Sat Mar 10, 2018 4:03 pm

I purchased a Honda Civic Hatchback Touring Model.
Go get yourself a nice new car,
You can't take it with you
,,,,,you deserve it :mrgreen:
"One does not accumulate but eliminate. It is not daily increase but daily decrease. The height of cultivation always runs to simplicity" –Bruce Lee

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Re: Consumer Reports Auto Issue Out now

Post by dm200 » Sat Mar 10, 2018 5:05 pm

You can't take it with you
Or, as I recall from a church sermon (cannot recall the rest) - "I have never seen a U-Haul behind a hearse"

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Re: Consumer Reports Auto Issue Out now

Post by friar1610 » Sat Mar 10, 2018 5:50 pm

TravelGeek wrote:
Sat Mar 10, 2018 3:33 pm
friar1610 wrote:
Sat Mar 10, 2018 3:10 pm
Anecdotally, this most recent issue lists the 2011 Buick Regal as a used car to avoid. I bought one new in 2011, have done nothing but routine maintenance and have had great reliability with it for 80K miles. Of course, now that I've said so publicly, I suppose I'm in for big problems. :oops:
Well, I think the key word here is “anecdotally” because I don’t think they made the claim that every single 2011 Buick Regal is going to have problems. From what I understand, it is statistically (based on user responses) more likely to have issues than other vehicles. I will have to look at the magazine at my library one of these days to find out if they are more specific regarding the likelihood of vehicles experiencing problems.)

For those with the magazine in hand, do they by any chance have any opinion on the new 2018 Nissan LEAF yet?
Well, yeah....That's why I used that word.

Edited to add: on p.38 there is a ranking of "Cars: Compact Elrctric and Hybrids". The Leaf is not listed. On p.72, in the section where they describe the various makes/models. It has a description of changes for the 2018 model. It gives no overall score but shows reliability and satisfaction (predicted, I assume) on the lower side of "better" (one notch above "average".
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Re: Consumer Reports Auto Issue Out now

Post by LadyGeek » Sun Mar 11, 2018 9:09 am

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