2016 Sienna - 57k miles - any downside to buying?

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pdanet
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2016 Sienna - 57k miles - any downside to buying?

Post by pdanet » Tue Feb 27, 2018 8:20 pm

A local dealer has a used 2016 Sienna XLE model with 57k miles and priced close to KBB value for similar age vehicle.

Should I be concerned with such high mileage on effectively a 1.5 year old vehicle?

runner3081
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Re: 2016 Sienna - 57k miles - any downside to buying?

Post by runner3081 » Tue Feb 27, 2018 8:46 pm

No, they will last 200K.

Helo80
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Re: 2016 Sienna - 57k miles - any downside to buying?

Post by Helo80 » Tue Feb 27, 2018 8:51 pm

Look at the build date from the factory on the VIN plate on the inside of the front door. I'm not sure when Sienna's start, but if it's say September 2015, it's more like a 2.5 year old vehicle... albeit still a bit high mileage. I honestly don't know what factory Toyota builds sienna at though. The most accurate reading would be to pull the in service date on the title when it first got registered.

If everything checks out, there is nothing wrong with buying it. It's a Toyota motor. I would try to find out why it has so many miles though if nothing more than to satisfy my curiosity.
Last edited by Helo80 on Tue Feb 27, 2018 9:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Kenkat
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Re: 2016 Sienna - 57k miles - any downside to buying?

Post by Kenkat » Tue Feb 27, 2018 8:54 pm

It’s all going to come down to price. What is the asking price? KBB is not always a good measure of actual market prices.

Helo80
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Re: 2016 Sienna - 57k miles - any downside to buying?

Post by Helo80 » Tue Feb 27, 2018 9:01 pm

Kenkat wrote:
Tue Feb 27, 2018 8:54 pm
It’s all going to come down to price. What is the asking price? KBB is not always a good measure of actual market prices.

KBB and the like generally are okay for ballpark price ranges, but are garbage for negotiation or leverage. Dealers subscribe to internal data generated from the auto auctions that the public generally cannot attend.

inbox788
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Re: 2016 Sienna - 57k miles - any downside to buying?

Post by inbox788 » Tue Feb 27, 2018 9:05 pm

Sometimes age in years isn't as good as simply using mileage for aging (wear and tear per mile). How many miles a year do you plan to drive it? Might be time for new tires, brake pads, transmission fluid change, etc.
pdanet wrote:
Tue Feb 27, 2018 8:20 pm
A local dealer has a used 2016 Sienna XLE model with 57k miles and priced close to KBB value for similar age vehicle.

Should I be concerned with such high mileage on effectively a 1.5 year old vehicle?
Is that adjusted for mileage? The dog years for the vehicle is closer to 4. How much are they asking? Here are some comps:
2013 Toyota Sienna XLE $21,599 61K https://www.carmax.com/car/15554047
2014 Toyota Sienna XLE $20,998 68K https://www.carmax.com/car/15649965
2016 Toyota Sienna XLE $23,599 55K https://www.carmax.com/car/15411113

I'm getting:

35603 miles, $25,315 Private Party Value $24,321 - $26,308 Private Party Range
55000 miles, $23,211 Private Party Value $22,217 - $24,204 Private Party Range
57000 miles, $22,995 Private Party Value $22,001 - $23,988 Private Party Range

Since Carmax is listing near the private party values, I'd guess real private party values are a bit lower. But finding cars that new are are relatively rare (probably folks that find they've bough the wrong car or had sudden unexpected change, which are less common reasons to sell a car).

$2104/19397 miles = $0.1085/mile
$216/2000 = $0.1080/mile

Leases typically charge $0.15/mile for over mileage, so they're probably profiting a little bit there.
Last edited by inbox788 on Tue Feb 27, 2018 9:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

kjvmartin
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Re: 2016 Sienna - 57k miles - any downside to buying?

Post by kjvmartin » Tue Feb 27, 2018 9:26 pm

How much of a discount off of new price?

Hulu
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Re: 2016 Sienna - 57k miles - any downside to buying?

Post by Hulu » Tue Feb 27, 2018 9:41 pm

I'd compare the deal on CarGurus and have a trusted mechanic do an inspection if the negotiated price works. Good brand. Safe. Good luck!

pdanet
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Re: 2016 Sienna - 57k miles - any downside to buying?

Post by pdanet » Tue Feb 27, 2018 10:07 pm

inbox788 wrote:
Tue Feb 27, 2018 9:05 pm
Sometimes age in years isn't as good as simply using mileage for aging (wear and tear per mile). How many miles a year do you plan to drive it?
About 16k - 20k miles per year
Kenkat wrote:
Tue Feb 27, 2018 8:54 pm
It’s all going to come down to price. What is the asking price? KBB is not always a good measure of actual market prices.
$22,800 + $699 dealer fees + tax + title + registration
Helo80 wrote:
Tue Feb 27, 2018 8:51 pm
Look at the build date from the factory on the VIN plate on the inside of the front door.
Says 05/16

xerxes101
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Re: 2016 Sienna - 57k miles - any downside to buying?

Post by xerxes101 » Tue Feb 27, 2018 10:24 pm

Make sure it is not a previous loaner or rental vehicle because that does affect the blue book value, as opposed to say a privately owned, single owner vehicle.

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Watty
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Re: 2016 Sienna - 57k miles - any downside to buying?

Post by Watty » Tue Feb 27, 2018 10:45 pm

Toyota has added a lot of safety features in 2017 and 2018 so if you are comparing the the 2016 to a new car be sure to go down the checklist of safety(and other) features to find the differences to make an "apples to apples" comparison.

There is probably only 3,000 miles left on the powertrain warranty so be aware of that.

According to Trucar if you got a good deal you could get a new one for about $35,000 so paying $23,500(+tax, title, etc) is only a 33% reduction for buying used.
https://www.truecar.com/prices-new/toyo ... code=30062

If you want you could see if you could get it for a lower price.

With the 2018 having extra safety features I don't think that is a great deal compared to buying new. I would either buy new or look for one with fewer miles.

MnD
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Re: 2016 Sienna - 57k miles - any downside to buying?

Post by MnD » Tue Feb 27, 2018 11:14 pm

The best 2 years and best 57K miles are gone. What is the % discount to the best deal you can make new?
I would expect 40% off at least. Miles 143K to 200k are not worth anything remotely close to miles 0-57K.
IMO opinion people pay far too much for top-rated reliable late model used cars with high miles.
The high-mile ones seem to predominate what's for sale in that sector and are priced dearly.

I see new invoice prices for new base models around $30K.

inbox788
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Re: 2016 Sienna - 57k miles - any downside to buying?

Post by inbox788 » Wed Feb 28, 2018 12:46 am

pdanet wrote:
Tue Feb 27, 2018 10:07 pm
inbox788 wrote:
Tue Feb 27, 2018 9:05 pm
Sometimes age in years isn't as good as simply using mileage for aging (wear and tear per mile). How many miles a year do you plan to drive it?
About 16k - 20k miles per year
Kenkat wrote:
Tue Feb 27, 2018 8:54 pm
It’s all going to come down to price. What is the asking price? KBB is not always a good measure of actual market prices.
$22,800 + $699 dealer fees + tax + title + registration
If Carmax includes the dealer fees, then it's right in line with their high retail offer, so that sounds like you've found the high end of the retail market. If you're willing to go seek out a private seller (not easy to find a less than 3 year old private seller), you should do a little better. Haggling with dealers might get you a little less than Carmax, but probably more than private party. YMMV. In any case, sounds like a fair deal as fair as Carmax deals.

As far as you mileage, there are 2 schools of thought. You can drive the car to the ground, but in 2-3 years, you'll likely cross 100k, and in less than a decade, 200k. There are a fair number of high mileage Siennas being sold, so you have decent chance of paying substantially less than a new vehicle and having it last. On the other hand, because you're driving high miles, there's a case to be made that it's not that much more per year or per mile buying a new vehicle, and over a decade of use, the difference isn't so much. And you benefit from new vehicle, warranty and less potential problems, plus you know/create the history. With a low mileage driver, say 4k/year, you could be driving the car for a decade before it crossed 100k, and normalizing the annual miles/year might help cut ownership costs (especially if the alternative was a new vehicle with high depreciation).

Finridge
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Re: 2016 Sienna - 57k miles - any downside to buying?

Post by Finridge » Wed Feb 28, 2018 1:35 am

Watty wrote:
Tue Feb 27, 2018 10:45 pm
Toyota has added a lot of safety features in 2017 and 2018 so if you are comparing the the 2016 to a new car be sure to go down the checklist of safety(and other) features to find the differences to make an "apples to apples" comparison.

There is probably only 3,000 miles left on the powertrain warranty so be aware of that.

According to Trucar if you got a good deal you could get a new one for about $35,000 so paying $23,500(+tax, title, etc) is only a 33% reduction for buying used.
https://www.truecar.com/prices-new/toyo ... code=30062

If you want you could see if you could get it for a lower price.

With the 2018 having extra safety features I don't think that is a great deal compared to buying new. I would either buy new or look for one with fewer miles.
I came here to say this. Check if it has the new safety features Toyota is including. It used to be that there was little difference between a vehicle that was a few years old and a new one, but with the new safety features that have come out, that is no longer true.

https://www.toyota.com/safety-sense/

pdanet
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Re: 2016 Sienna - 57k miles - any downside to buying?

Post by pdanet » Wed Feb 28, 2018 8:25 am

inbox788 wrote:
Wed Feb 28, 2018 12:46 am

As far as you mileage, there are 2 schools of thought. You can drive the car to the ground, but in 2-3 years, you'll likely cross 100k, and in less than a decade, 200k. There are a fair number of high mileage Siennas being sold, so you have decent chance of paying substantially less than a new vehicle and having it last. On the other hand, because you're driving high miles, there's a case to be made that it's not that much more per year or per mile buying a new vehicle, and over a decade of use, the difference isn't so much. And you benefit from new vehicle, warranty and less potential problems, plus you know/create the history. With a low mileage driver, say 4k/year, you could be driving the car for a decade before it crossed 100k, and normalizing the annual miles/year might help cut ownership costs (especially if the alternative was a new vehicle with high depreciation).
We really want to stick to 25K for a Minivan and I anticipate putting 16k to 20k in miles a year so in about 6 years, we will certainly cross 100k

Am trying to figure out repair costs since more of it will come sooner than later:

Example -
2016 vehicle at 60k miles may need a timing belt(assumption) replacement necessary at 100K so expect to pay for it in 2-3 years
2018 vehicle at 0k miles may need a timing belt(assumption) replacement necessary at 100K so expect to pay for it in 5-6 years
MnD wrote:
Tue Feb 27, 2018 11:14 pm
I would expect 40% off at least.
so, I have to negotiate the dealer to sell the vehicle for ~$21,500 rather than $23,500 to get to the 40% mark. Right?
Watty wrote:
Tue Feb 27, 2018 10:45 pm
According to Trucar if you got a good deal you could get a new one for about $35,000 so paying $23,500(+tax, title, etc) is only a 33% reduction for buying used.
Our budget is about 25K so can't really afford another 33% jump to buy a new one.

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lthenderson
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Re: 2016 Sienna - 57k miles - any downside to buying?

Post by lthenderson » Wed Feb 28, 2018 9:01 am

I have a 2017 Sienna XLE with AWD and love it. This winter when the roads were terrible, it handles like a champ and it would take me two hands to add up the number of times I had to pass someone with front wheel drive spinning their wheels trying to get up the steep hills in town.

To add onto what someone else above mentioned, we have a 2015 RAV4 and there is a ton of features on the 2017 that the fully loaded RAV4 doesn't have. My parents just purchased a 2018 RAV4 last fall and it has even more standard features on the base model than my XLE Sienna has. Toyota is really evolving fast with their safety sensors. Saying all that, I still love the 2015 RAV4 and what features it does have and don't feel unsafe driving it.

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Re: 2016 Sienna - 57k miles - any downside to buying?

Post by bloom2708 » Wed Feb 28, 2018 9:03 am

Do you have the VIN?

https://www.vehiclehistory.com/

It doesn't catch everything, but this free check is useful for spotting rentals, title issues, etc.
"We are here not to please but to provoke thoughtfulness" Unknown Boglehead

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Watty
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Re: 2016 Sienna - 57k miles - any downside to buying?

Post by Watty » Wed Feb 28, 2018 9:33 am

pdanet wrote:
Wed Feb 28, 2018 8:25 am

According to Trucar if you got a good deal you could get a new one for about $35,000 so paying $23,500(+tax, title, etc) is only a 33% reduction for buying used.

Our budget is about 25K so can't really afford another 33% jump to buy a new one.
Part of the problem is the XLE is a top of the line trim level so that drives the price up a lot.

On that budget I would take a look at lower trim level car, either new or used, which would be better value.

Out of curiosity I looked and a Hertz car sales lot near me has a 2017 LE version with only 25k miles for only $23K. It would have a lot of the full warranty left and nearly 40k miles of the powertrain warranty. I don't know which safety features it has so you would want to check on that. That only took 30 seconds to find so if you looked around you could likely find an even better deal than that.

https://www.hertzcarsalesmarietta.com/c ... 8b864d.htm

I don't know about the Sienna but I just bought a LE level Corolla and even though it does not have all the bells and whistles it is still pretty nice inside.

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Re: 2016 Sienna - 57k miles - any downside to buying?

Post by phaleconomist » Wed Feb 28, 2018 9:45 am

pdanet wrote:
Tue Feb 27, 2018 8:20 pm
A local dealer has a used 2016 Sienna XLE model with 57k miles and priced close to KBB value for similar age vehicle.

Should I be concerned with such high mileage on effectively a 1.5 year old vehicle?
I put about 40k miles a year on my vehicles and it's generally all interstate travel. For wear, it's better than high mileage city driving, but still needs to be maintained properly. On a 2 year old vehicle, I wouldn't be concerned, but sure I'd rather start with less miles than more so it just comes down to how long you plan to keep the vehicle.
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psmoove
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Re: 2016 Sienna - 57k miles - any downside to buying?

Post by psmoove » Wed Feb 28, 2018 5:09 pm

OP, I was in the same situation as you just last month. I also had a budget of $25K. I found and ended up purchasing a CPO 2016 Sienna XLE with 42,000 miles here in southern CA for $23,400 before taxes and fees. I figured a new one (while not a direct apples to apples comparison due to the new safety features) would be around $33,000. The van has been rock solid and I have some peace of mind with the Toyota CPO warranty (12 months, 12,000 miles). I expect to use this van until the youngest of my 3 kids graduates high school in 14 years!

By the way, the van was used as a rental, but you would not know based on how it looks. There are no creaks, squeaks or rattles. It looks pretty good for a 2 year old rental minivan. And prior to being listed for sale the dealer did a thorough CPO refurbishment and maintenance (new tires, filters, wiper blades, brakes, etc).

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Re: 2016 Sienna - 57k miles - any downside to buying?

Post by friar1610 » Wed Feb 28, 2018 6:19 pm

Hulu wrote:
Tue Feb 27, 2018 9:41 pm
I'd compare the deal on CarGurus and have a trusted mechanic do an inspection if the negotiated price works. Good brand. Safe. Good luck!
Does anyone know to what degree you should believe Car Guru's "great deal" "good deal", "fair deal", etc. designations?
Friar1610

Hulu
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Re: 2016 Sienna - 57k miles - any downside to buying?

Post by Hulu » Wed Feb 28, 2018 8:42 pm

friar1610 wrote:
Wed Feb 28, 2018 6:19 pm
Hulu wrote:
Tue Feb 27, 2018 9:41 pm
I'd compare the deal on CarGurus and have a trusted mechanic do an inspection if the negotiated price works. Good brand. Safe. Good luck!
Does anyone know to what degree you should believe Car Guru's "great deal" "good deal", "fair deal", etc. designations?
It's really misleading to me. A great deal on a Porsche Macan doesn't mean much to me 😉

Ditto for type, year and brand. SUVs are at a premium. New is usually at a premium vs. a year old.

The more narrow the scope the more the credible. I found that a lot of "great deals" were for upscale models that had features that I didn't need. So relatively a better deal but more expensive than all the base models.

If I could do my search over I'd use CarGurus and US News to narrow the cars to test drive. Then join a forum for the cars I wanted (if new) and negotiate only online. The forums sometimes can be great resources to honest, high volume dealerships. Just beware the negative stories...which can distort your perception.

aristotelian
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Re: 2016 Sienna - 57k miles - any downside to buying?

Post by aristotelian » Wed Feb 28, 2018 8:47 pm

My coworker just got rid of one with over 250K miles on it. It was still running strong but one of the interns made a comment about how she should be able to drive a nicer car, so she got self conscious and decided to upgrade.

pdanet
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Re: 2016 Sienna - 57k miles - any downside to buying?

Post by pdanet » Thu Mar 01, 2018 9:03 pm

psmoove wrote:
Wed Feb 28, 2018 5:09 pm
OP, I was in the same situation as you just last month. I also had a budget of $25K. I found and ended up purchasing a CPO 2016 Sienna XLE with 42,000 miles here in southern CA for $23,400 before taxes and fees. I figured a new one (while not a direct apples to apples comparison due to the new safety features) would be around $33,000. The van has been rock solid and I have some peace of mind with the Toyota CPO warranty (12 months, 12,000 miles). I expect to use this van until the youngest of my 3 kids graduates high school in 14 years!
Update: Too bad, the vehicle sold as I was contemplating or maybe the Dealer took it off their selling list.

inbox788
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Re: 2016 Sienna - 57k miles - any downside to buying?

Post by inbox788 » Fri Mar 02, 2018 1:42 pm

pdanet wrote:
Thu Mar 01, 2018 9:03 pm
Update: Too bad, the vehicle sold as I was contemplating or maybe the Dealer took it off their selling list.
Don't worry, another deal will come up. It was fair but not great, IMO. Chances are you'll do much better buying from private party than dealer, but takes more time and effort.

http://autoweek.com/article/car-news/ne ... and-losers
http://www.thedrive.com/news/18941/new- ... alysts-say

Helo80
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Re: 2016 Sienna - 57k miles - any downside to buying?

Post by Helo80 » Fri Mar 02, 2018 8:28 pm

pdanet wrote:
Thu Mar 01, 2018 9:03 pm
psmoove wrote:
Wed Feb 28, 2018 5:09 pm
OP, I was in the same situation as you just last month. I also had a budget of $25K. I found and ended up purchasing a CPO 2016 Sienna XLE with 42,000 miles here in southern CA for $23,400 before taxes and fees. I figured a new one (while not a direct apples to apples comparison due to the new safety features) would be around $33,000. The van has been rock solid and I have some peace of mind with the Toyota CPO warranty (12 months, 12,000 miles). I expect to use this van until the youngest of my 3 kids graduates high school in 14 years!
Update: Too bad, the vehicle sold as I was contemplating or maybe the Dealer took it off their selling list.


Don't sweat it. It's not like Sienna is one of a kind. Never get "stuck" on a used car (or new car) for that matter.

SimonJester
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Re: 2016 Sienna - 57k miles - any downside to buying?

Post by SimonJester » Fri Mar 02, 2018 9:22 pm

I have a 2004LE that is just now hitting 90K miles. It has been a rock solid vehicle we purchased new for about 25K with taxes.
I have only had to do routine maintenance on it.

In 14 years I have replaced front brakes pads twice, front rotors, rear shoes, rear shocks, had timing belt with water pump done, three sets of tires, one windshield, and one battery. I have done my own oil changes, air filters, ATF change, power steering / brake fluid change and all other maintenance besides the timing belt.

Total maintenance costs over 14 years $4k. The timing belt w pump was the most expensive as I had it done vs doing it myself.

I expect to have the plugs done in the next 10-20K miles as the back six are a royal pain to get to...


I would try and find one closer to the 30K miles, one owner if you can.
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin

goaties
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Re: 2016 Sienna - 57k miles - any downside to buying?

Post by goaties » Fri Mar 02, 2018 11:43 pm

S
Siennas built after 2006 (V6 engine) have a timing chain, thankfully.
pdanet wrote:
Wed Feb 28, 2018 8:25 am
Example -
2016 vehicle at 60k miles may need a timing belt(assumption) replacement necessary at 100K so expect to pay for it in 2-3 years
2018 vehicle at 0k miles may need a timing belt(assumption) replacement necessary at 100K so expect to pay for it in 5-6 years
Oh, and I bought a 2014 Sienna a couple years ago, thinking I got a good deal on it. Was then shocked to discover that the blue book value plummeted about 3k once the vehicle hit three years of age (off warranty). So there's another facet to consider. Maybe look for a 3-year-old vehicle?

ccieemeritus
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Re: 2016 Sienna - 57k miles - any downside to buying?

Post by ccieemeritus » Fri Mar 02, 2018 11:55 pm

I sold my 2001 Toyota Sienna last month with 193k miles on it. I got my money's worth out of that car. I did have the automatic sliding side door fail. Stereo eventually failed. But I'm happy with it lasting so long. I did pay extra for dealer maintenance.

57k means your possible Sienna will be due for a major 60k service almost immediately.

inbox788
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Re: 2016 Sienna - 57k miles - any downside to buying?

Post by inbox788 » Sat Mar 03, 2018 1:49 am

goaties wrote:
Fri Mar 02, 2018 11:43 pm
S
Siennas built after 2006 (V6 engine) have a timing chain, thankfully.
pdanet wrote:
Wed Feb 28, 2018 8:25 am
Example -
2016 vehicle at 60k miles may need a timing belt(assumption) replacement necessary at 100K so expect to pay for it in 2-3 years
2018 vehicle at 0k miles may need a timing belt(assumption) replacement necessary at 100K so expect to pay for it in 5-6 years
Oh, and I bought a 2014 Sienna a couple years ago, thinking I got a good deal on it. Was then shocked to discover that the blue book value plummeted about 3k once the vehicle hit three years of age (off warranty). So there's another facet to consider. Maybe look for a 3-year-old vehicle?
The 57k miles is already past the bumper/bumper warranty and only has 3k left on the powertrain. Price should already reflect being off warranty. I guess it's good to have the 3 months on the powertrain, but it's not worth all that much.

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