3 layers of roof. Pull my offer??

Questions on how we spend our money and our time - consumer goods and services, home and vehicle, leisure and recreational activities
michaeljc70
Posts: 3882
Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2015 3:53 pm

Re: 3 layers of roof. Pull my offer??

Post by michaeljc70 » Mon Feb 26, 2018 3:43 pm

rkhusky wrote:
Mon Feb 26, 2018 3:41 pm
DoTheMath wrote:
Mon Feb 26, 2018 12:01 pm
When we bought our house it had 3 layers. Our insurance company wouldn't insure the house without replacing it. They don't hold up well and are prone to failure. If I recall correctly, the insurance company agreed to give us 6 months to replace the roof and have their inspector confirm it, or they'd pull our insurance. We got a few quotes and and agreed with the sellers to have them put a certain amount in an escrow account to cover the roof replacement. We had it done by a contractor of our choosing a month or two after the purchase.

I would have it replaced immediately and have the cost covered by the sellers. Especially if you don't have the funds to do a roof replacement out of pocket in the next few years. If you don't mind paying out of pocket, then it would also be fine to have the price knocked down by the cost of a new roof. There is no reason to pay the agreed upon price.

I would definitely *not* have the sellers do the replacement. They will have every incentive to go as cheap as possible and you'll just end up having to redo the roof in a few years.
We had an insurer refuse to cover our newly purchased house because of the age of the roof, even though the shingles were fine. We found another insurer, quite easily in fact.
On my current place (until the roof was replaced last year), I was getting a newer home discount and at the same time paying a surcharge for an old roof. The place is around 20 years old.

crockpotinvesting
Posts: 34
Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2017 8:50 pm

Re: 3 layers of roof. Pull my offer??

Post by crockpotinvesting » Mon Feb 26, 2018 6:25 pm

Update:

- Checked with local town housing code, anymore than 2 layers of roofIng shingles is a violation.
- I’m going to speak with a few roofers but I spoke to one today and they looked at the house (online), very well respected roofer and they said it could cost up to $25k to fix, more info needed via on site estimate for $250. Reason for the high price is 3 times the amount of material to remove and dispose of and they said from how I explained it that it might need to be pulled down to the rafters and fully replaced.

StealthRabbit
Posts: 138
Joined: Sat Jun 13, 2009 1:25 am

Re: 3 layers of roof. Pull my offer??

Post by StealthRabbit » Mon Feb 26, 2018 6:53 pm

crockpotinvesting wrote:
Mon Feb 26, 2018 6:25 pm
Update:

- Checked with local town housing code, anymore than 2 layers of roofIng shingles is a violation.
- I’m going to speak with a few roofers but I spoke to one today and they looked at the house (online), very well respected roofer and they said it could cost up to $25k to fix, more info needed via on site estimate for $250. Reason for the high price is 3 times the amount of material to remove and dispose of and they said from how I explained it that it might need to be pulled down to the rafters and fully replaced.
This is reasonable response. ^^^

it is about $10 - 15k for a new roof and $6k per layer to remove and dispose (in my area)

Depends a lot on the house + your insurance and financing. If you have a plan to stay there forever (10+ yrs) and it is the place you want to buy (very important...) then you have some negotiating numbers.

How old is layer #3 (how serviceable?)
What is the probability of a roofing claim (if your insurance will even cover it) ?
Do you want to deal with a couple week hassle of replacement? (and trampled landscaping)

For the 'right ' house... negotiate a deal

for an 'iffy house... no deal

ReadyOrNot
Posts: 193
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2016 1:51 pm

Re: 3 layers of roof. Pull my offer??

Post by ReadyOrNot » Mon Feb 26, 2018 7:21 pm

If it had been re-roofed according to the local code, I would have figured it was the usual practice there.
But you still could have checked with the city to see if the proper permits had been filed for all major work done, and refused to accept the deal if required permits were not on file.
Since it does not meet the code, it should be one of the contingincies which allow you to re-negotiate a reasonable fix.
If the fix isn't to your satisfaction, then you can walk away from the deal.
Isn't that what you hired the inspector for?

SimonJester
Posts: 1676
Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2011 12:39 pm

Re: 3 layers of roof. Pull my offer??

Post by SimonJester » Tue Feb 27, 2018 9:32 am

crockpotinvesting wrote:
Mon Feb 26, 2018 6:25 pm
Update:

- Checked with local town housing code, anymore than 2 layers of roofIng shingles is a violation.
- I’m going to speak with a few roofers but I spoke to one today and they looked at the house (online), very well respected roofer and they said it could cost up to $25k to fix, more info needed via on site estimate for $250. Reason for the high price is 3 times the amount of material to remove and dispose of and they said from how I explained it that it might need to be pulled down to the rafters and fully replaced.
I think your "well respected" roofer is blowing a little smoke here and charging you $250 to give you a quote is nonsense.

Divide the roofing costs into a couple categories; cost of the new roofing materials, labor to install new roofing, labor to remove old roofing, & disposal of the old material. Its only the last two that are changed with three layers vs one. It really doesnt take a laborer three times longer to remove 3x layers vs 1x.

Its the roofing underlayment that actually creates a waterproof barrier and protects the sheathing. The shingles are there to prevent the sun and weather from deteriorating the underlayment.

So I would first call a couple of other roofing companies and explain the situation and get a few more estimates of what it will take to remove and replace.
I would then either use these estimates to lower the price of the offer or request the seller replace then roof. I would lean towards just having the seller replace the roof. The problem here is they will most likely go with the lowest bidder. However if you just ask to X dollars you may tear into the roof and discover the sheathing needs replaced as well.

Another idea, have the seller provide three quotes that you both can look over and you both agree on a contractor.
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin

blgaarder
Posts: 56
Joined: Wed Mar 11, 2015 4:33 pm

Re: 3 layers of roof. Pull my offer??

Post by blgaarder » Tue Feb 27, 2018 12:10 pm

I believe that Minnesota building code has only allowed one layer for at least five years.

It was two about twenty years ago.

barnaclebob
Posts: 3072
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 10:54 am

Re: 3 layers of roof. Pull my offer??

Post by barnaclebob » Tue Feb 27, 2018 12:49 pm

SimonJester wrote:
Tue Feb 27, 2018 9:32 am
I think your "well respected" roofer is blowing a little smoke here and charging you $250 to give you a quote is nonsense.
If OP said that he wanted info for a house he was looking to buy then I don't blame any contractor for not wanting to come out because id bet a majority of estimates for stuff found on inspections isnt done immediately if at all. How many electricians get calls for ungrounded outlet repairs and after telling the homeowner that its a complete rewire they decide to just live with it?

He gave good info over the phone and probably knew that a replacement job was years away. Why waste any time on it without compensation.

User avatar
Watty
Posts: 14581
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2007 3:55 pm

Re: 3 layers of roof. Pull my offer??

Post by Watty » Tue Feb 27, 2018 1:02 pm

barnaclebob wrote:
Tue Feb 27, 2018 12:49 pm
SimonJester wrote:
Tue Feb 27, 2018 9:32 am
I think your "well respected" roofer is blowing a little smoke here and charging you $250 to give you a quote is nonsense.
If OP said that he wanted info for a house he was looking to buy then I don't blame any contractor for not wanting to come out because id bet a majority of estimates for stuff found on inspections isnt done immediately if at all. How many electricians get calls for ungrounded outlet repairs and after telling the homeowner that its a complete rewire they decide to just live with it?

He gave good info over the phone and probably knew that a replacement job was years away. Why waste any time on it without compensation.
That price could be for a roof inspection and written report, and there is also a question of being sued if it actually costs a lot more to repair than they say. The cost would vary a lot on the area and type of roof but it could be in the right ballpark.

The price mentioned on the phone is likely high since it is better to give a high number and bring it down than to give a number that turns out to be low.

ncbill
Posts: 364
Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2008 4:03 pm

Re: 3 layers of roof. Pull my offer??

Post by ncbill » Tue Feb 27, 2018 1:59 pm

a recent development at our townhome neighborhood is insurers who are sending over their own inspectors, but only after closing.

who then often demand the roof be replaced or the insurer will drop coverage.

User avatar
White Coat Investor
Posts: 13588
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2007 9:11 pm
Location: Greatest Snow On Earth

Re: 3 layers of roof. Pull my offer??

Post by White Coat Investor » Tue Feb 27, 2018 3:07 pm

An inspection is just the opportunity to reopen negotiations. So renegotiate. If you're happy, then buy it. If you feel like you'd rather have the one down the street, do that.
1) Invest you must 2) Time is your friend 3) Impulse is your enemy | 4) Basic arithmetic works 5) Stick to simplicity 6) Stay the course

crockpotinvesting
Posts: 34
Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2017 8:50 pm

Re: 3 layers of roof. Pull my offer??

Post by crockpotinvesting » Tue Feb 27, 2018 6:44 pm

I had 2 of the most highly recommend roofers take a look and one trend is for certain. It’s going to be expensive:

Quote 1: $25k
Quote 2: $30k

Atilla
Posts: 1262
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2010 7:44 pm

Re: 3 layers of roof. Pull my offer??

Post by Atilla » Tue Feb 27, 2018 6:54 pm

If 3 layers of shingles isn't up to code, you can nail them. Should be good for a few bucks off the place if you are nice about it.
The Village Idiot - here for your entertainment.

likegarden
Posts: 2707
Joined: Mon Feb 26, 2007 5:33 pm

Re: 3 layers of roof. Pull my offer??

Post by likegarden » Tue Feb 27, 2018 7:41 pm

You also should note that placing these heavy old shingles into a large truck or container likely will damage your driveway and might require a new driveway.

Nate79
Posts: 3714
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2016 6:24 pm
Location: Delaware

Re: 3 layers of roof. Pull my offer??

Post by Nate79 » Tue Feb 27, 2018 7:53 pm

Atilla wrote:
Tue Feb 27, 2018 6:54 pm
If 3 layers of shingles isn't up to code, you can nail them. Should be good for a few bucks off the place if you are nice about it.
It entirely depends on the market. There may be a person in line who will pay list price for as is.

Post Reply