Transition from house to apartment

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chabil
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Transition from house to apartment

Post by chabil » Fri Feb 16, 2018 5:24 pm

We have visited and revisited this dilemma and I am still stumped as to what and how to do this. We would like to move to warm Southern California where our daughter is, in LA, and other family. We made this attempt a few years ago and chickened out. Now we are thinking of this again and I feel new urgency: that it will be only harder to do this as we get older. He is 80 and I am 67.

We would rather not rent an individual house but get an apartment in a complex. My reasoning is that I don't know what we'll do if the owner wants the house back.
Chicken and egg problem. Do we first look, find a place, sign the deal then return to sell the house? Or sell the house first and find a place in the interval before closing? I don't think it will be too hard to sell our house.
The economics of it. I figure the rent we will pay - about 4K for a 3 bedroom apartment - will be equal to what we pay for what I call maintaining a house which is fully paid for: property tax, insurance; utilities including water, septic tank; lawn, yard, and snow service; cleaning; maintenance and repairs.
We may net about 580K or so from the sale of our house after broker fees. Our rent for the apartment will come out of this amount when invested. Are we going to be OK? How do I figure this.
The other thing is space. We have a 2 story house with 5 bedrooms and 2.5 bath. It is not big and not small, adequate. We each spend a lot of time in our own office/study during the day, my husband more than I do and he likes having this space. How is it going to be in a 3 bedroom or 2 Bedroom (3 bedrm is harder to find) sharing the space and kitchen? My husband is more worried than me, mainly because I plan to be out mostly, hiking and birding in the warm sunshine :D

Would love to hear from those who have made this transition.
Thank you.

P.S: I want to add that we will be looking in the Redando Beach area only because I am already familiar with this area from last time. I am also considering looking further south like Long Beach and Huntington Beach although it is on hearsay, I have no familiarity with these places.

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Pajamas
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Re: Transition from house to apartment

Post by Pajamas » Fri Feb 16, 2018 5:44 pm

Apartment complexes generally use software to optimize occupancy and revenue these days. What that means to you is that many complexes would be able and willing to reserve a spot for you several months in advance. They might not be able to guarantee the exact apartment but could guarantee a certain size or floorplan. That would give you time to sell the house. You might want to overlap renting the apartment and owning the house some so you have a couple of weeks to move and get settled in without being surrounded by boxes.

Stick with a two bedroom to keep the costs down and let your husband use the second bedroom as his office/den/nap/time out room for you to send him to when he misbehaves. Set up a spot for yourself in another area, perhaps the dining area if there is one. A third bedroom would just become a storage room. Since your daughter lives nearby, you don't need a dedicated guest room.

If you are going to be paying in rent about what you were paying to stay in the house, you should be fine. You'll also have extra income from the proceeds from selling the house. If you have more than one vehicle, it might be a good time to get rid of all but one.

Don't make the mistake of trying to cram too much stuff into your apartment. Be selective about what you take and don't move things you should get rid of instead. Start condensing and eliminating your belongings now. The space will be smaller and you will have less storage space, although in newer apartments it may be more proportionately excluding house-unique spaces like attic, garage, basement, shed, etc.; in other words, the closets may be larger.

DrGoogle2017
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Re: Transition from house to apartment

Post by DrGoogle2017 » Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:07 pm

You have better chance of renting in Torrance(near Redondo Beach) or Fountain Valley(near Huntington Beach) for that price range.

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5th_Dimension
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Re: Transition from house to apartment

Post by 5th_Dimension » Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:40 pm

You mentioned Redondo Beach, is that where your daughter lives? One thing to consider is how much time you might spend visiting her. Traffic in LA can be bad in the best of times, you might not want a long commute, especially at your ages.
"My idea of rich is ordering the most expensive thing at Denny's"

victw
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Re: Transition from house to apartment

Post by victw » Fri Feb 16, 2018 7:10 pm

5th_Dimension wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:40 pm
You mentioned Redondo Beach, is that where your daughter lives? One thing to consider is how much time you might spend visiting her. Traffic in LA can be bad in the best of times, you might not want a long commute, especially at your ages.
+1 This was my thought when reading about the OPs area selection.

We rent in SoCal. I would think about picking the apartment the same way you pick a house. When we entertianed buying I looked at houses that had no neighbors in the back or bordering a park.

We recently moved apartments in the same complex. For years we had faced the childrens play area with full afternoon sun. We were about to pick another unit I wasn't so excited about when I got a surprise call that a unit in the back had opened up. Wow - it faces the mountains behind us. Our new patio opens up to the trees and a view of those mountains. It's like we are living in a completely different place.

Think about what you would like in an apartment and take your time to find some of those features.

Also about the space - our patio is much more inviting than the previous apartment. We bought new patio furniture - and in good weather it's an extra living space.

Best wishes.
Vic

denovo
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Re: Transition from house to apartment

Post by denovo » Fri Feb 16, 2018 7:40 pm

1. Sell home
2. Rent for a year and then decide.

Start throwing stuff out.
"Don't trust everything you read on the Internet"- Abraham Lincoln

btenny
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Re: Transition from house to apartment

Post by btenny » Fri Feb 16, 2018 8:25 pm

You might look into buying a mobile home in SoCal. You fit the demographic and life style of people for this type of home. They re usually a lot nicer than a standard apartment. There are handful of over 55 Mobile home parks in the Torrence and Redondo Beach area. These are low cost properties as you only buy the mobile home and rent the land. Here are two home listings. Look on the internet and I am sure you will find others.

https://www.mhvillage.com/Mobile-Homes/ ... key=622159
https://www.mhvillage.com/Mobile-Homes/ ... ey=1824046

Good Luck

delamer
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Re: Transition from house to apartment

Post by delamer » Fri Feb 16, 2018 9:39 pm

I shared walls with other living units for (too) many years before I got married and was able to afford a single family home. Noise pollution is a fact of life in apartments.

There are some things you can do to mitigate it, like remting on the top floor. But due diligence is needed.

My in-laws each have a spare bedroom that each of them use as an office. At first I thought it was a bit extravagant, but now I think it keeps them sane (especially since my FIL is a bit of a hoarder).

mouses
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Re: Transition from house to apartment

Post by mouses » Fri Feb 16, 2018 9:51 pm

chabil wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 5:24 pm
The economics of it. I figure the rent we will pay - about 4K for a 3 bedroom apartment - will be equal to what we pay for what I call maintaining a house which is fully paid for: property tax, insurance; utilities including water, septic tank; lawn, yard, and snow service; cleaning; maintenance and repairs.
We may net about 580K or so from the sale of our house after broker fees. Our rent for the apartment will come out of this amount when invested. Are we going to be OK?
If you can afford $4K a month for house maintenance, you can afford $4K a month for rent. However, I do not see how $48K a year even without inflation comes out of $580 for your life expectancy. I must be missing something.

Re the comment about noisy neighbors in apartments, I have the new neighbors from hell in the house next door to me. It is easier to move from a rental than sell a house and buy a new one. Just don't move into an apartment complex that caters to college students.

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5th_Dimension
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Re: Transition from house to apartment

Post by 5th_Dimension » Fri Feb 16, 2018 10:27 pm

btenny wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 8:25 pm
You might look into buying a mobile home in SoCal. You fit the demographic and life style of people for this type of home. They re usually a lot nicer than a standard apartment. There are handful of over 55 Mobile home parks in the Torrence and Redondo Beach area. These are low cost properties as you only buy the mobile home and rent the land. Here are two home listings. Look on the internet and I am sure you will find others.

https://www.mhvillage.com/Mobile-Homes/ ... key=622159
https://www.mhvillage.com/Mobile-Homes/ ... ey=1824046

Good Luck
We live in a 55+ Manufactured Home park and I would 2nd the recommendation. We live quite far from Redondo Beach so ours would be out, but there are homes here 2000 sq. ft. with 3 bedrooms. There are lots of activities if you are into that sort of thing. The two parks listed above are family parks but the prices you are seeing for the home and the rent is comparable in a 55+ park.
"My idea of rich is ordering the most expensive thing at Denny's"

chabil
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Re: Transition from house to apartment

Post by chabil » Sat Feb 17, 2018 7:45 am

Thank you for all the great responses and tips on apartment living. It has been many years since we lived in an apartment and loved all the space in our first house with our new baby. It is reverse now and our needs are different. But I still worry if we will regret moving from house to apartment. In this forum as well as others I am yet to see someone at our stage in life regretting the move. I expect whatever regret we have will be compensated with nice weather and proximity to family and a different lifestyle.

My daughter lives in MB and we will be ok with an hour's distance at non peak time.

The economics: We have a comfortable income stream from pension, SS and investment income that provides for vacations and everything else. The 580k is a conservative amount I expect we will end up with from selling our house. My hope is income from investing it in an index fund will cover our rental expense, most of if not all.

My daughter has suggested we look in Long Beach. Any opinion about that?

I also like the areas north of LA county but worry about the recent fires and mudslides. I welcome any suggestions on locations.
More than anything I wish for a pretty view - woods, hills, anything other than freeways.

GmanJeff
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Re: Transition from house to apartment

Post by GmanJeff » Sat Feb 17, 2018 8:37 am

One issue with moving to an apartment is that you may be facing another move in the not too distant future if either of you requires a more supportive living environment. With that in mind, perhaps consider a continuing care retirement community (CCRC), where you can better age in place without having to move yet again in a few years when you give up driving or would benefit from meals being provided for you or from other services. If you wait until one of you has a medical crisis, another move at that time will be difficult. And, consider the possibility that one of you may eventually need assisted living while the other does not. In a CCRC, one of you can move to assisted living (or, if available, rehab/nursing or memory care if needed) while the other of you remains in a nearby independent living unit in the community, able to visit easily without driving because you're both in the same complex.

Another consideration is that apartments often will be populated primarily with tenants who are still working, which can leave you without the social life you can have in a 55+ or CCRC community. While you may hope to see a lot of your family, the traffic in the LA area is very heavy even outside of the extended rush hours the area experiences and you may find that in reality you don't see them as often as you might anticipate because they are busy with their own lives and the travel time deters them from more frequent visits.

California does enjoy pleasant weather most of the time, but it also is subject to high levels of pollution if you're not right by the coast/beach, has very substantial fire and earthquake risks in places, is very crowded in many parts of the state, and has gang and other crime issues in certain areas. Taxes are extraordinarily high and the political climate there suggests they will remain burdensome and may get worse. Family and nice weather undoubtedly count for a lot, but its not going to be all blue skies.

DrGoogle2017
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Re: Transition from house to apartment

Post by DrGoogle2017 » Sat Feb 17, 2018 2:14 pm

I like Seal beach better than Long Beach, there are some retirement communities in Seal Beach.

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5th_Dimension
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Re: Transition from house to apartment

Post by 5th_Dimension » Sat Feb 17, 2018 4:46 pm

DrGoogle2017 wrote:
Sat Feb 17, 2018 2:14 pm
I like Seal beach better than Long Beach, there are some retirement communities in Seal Beach.
I agree, I would look in Seal Beach, Sunset Beach, North Huntington Beach/Huntington Harbor before I would look in Long Beach.
"My idea of rich is ordering the most expensive thing at Denny's"

ReadyOrNot
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Re: Transition from house to apartment

Post by ReadyOrNot » Sat Feb 17, 2018 5:23 pm

Retirement communities seem much more peaceful than general population apartments. You have a wide geographical area to search around in. Eastern part of Long Beach (north, south, and east of airport) is considerably more desirable than western part of Long Beach (sketchy and obvious if you just drive through it). Other communities east, in the areas near the county line between Los Angeles and Orange counties are fine, better and more expensive the closer you get to the beach. Traffic is pretty bad getting to and from Manhattan Beach -- inconvenient side streets, not easy access to freeway, slow freeway during 2-hour-long rush hours. Many of the various cities there have some sort of senior transportation services, or large senior communities may have their own. Maybe try living in a place for a few months to see if the transportation and local shopping, sights, and social set-up are good enough. In some neighborhoods, you can get to enough places by walking, but I don't know how hard finding rental places is now.

WhyNotUs
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Re: Transition from house to apartment

Post by WhyNotUs » Sat Feb 17, 2018 5:32 pm

To get $4k a month out of a $580,000 investment would require about 8.5% before taxes. That is a tall order to ask. A 4% return would get you about half of your desired funds.
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AntsOnTheMarch
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Re: Transition from house to apartment

Post by AntsOnTheMarch » Sat Feb 17, 2018 5:54 pm

We downsized from a 2400 sq ft single family home to a 1000 sq ft apartment condo 4 years ago. It’s something we would do all over again.

Getting rid of stuff accumulated over a lifetime is emotionally difficult for most people. A good estate sales agent can help. Basically, you go around and tag anything you want to keep and they will get rid of everything else. Anything they can’t sell goes to salvage and they broom sweep your home ready for closing.

Living in an apartment after all these years will be a challenge. Embrace it as an opportunity to live a different life rather than missing your old life. There will be new people to meet. If you pick something walking distance to town, you will get lots of exercise and go out more. Yes, noise, as mentioned, can be a factor but there are trade offs in all things. Space may seem tight at first. All the more reason to really downsize before the move. And you’re now in sunny SoCal. What are you doing indoors anyway? Get out and live a little. Sounds like a great trade off to me!

If I were moving nearby I’d get the house ready and listed and then rent something. But if you’re moving a distance, line up a few suitable possibilities for rentals and wait to sell the house before proceeding with the rental/move.

fasteddie911
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Re: Transition from house to apartment

Post by fasteddie911 » Sun Feb 18, 2018 9:18 am

Timing wise, I don't think there's any wrong approach, you can put your house on the market while getting ready for the move. If it sells quick, just move sooner. If it takes awhile to sell, you can take your time with the move or just make the move and try to sell the house from afar. As for housing size and space, this is very subjective. Personally, I cannot fathom how much space some people need to feel comfortable. For my spouse and I, we were perfectly happy living in a 600sqft 1br, a 400sqft studio after college was a bit tight and a 1200sqft house felt way too big. This is something you'll have to figure out and get used to. I agree with your thoughts on apartment living and instability of renting a house. Also, an apartment can be better for mobility, it forms it's own community, likely better for a future widowed spouse and can be in walkable interesting areas. The move from house to apartment has worked out very well for many people I know.

gotester2000
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Re: Transition from house to apartment

Post by gotester2000 » Sun Feb 18, 2018 10:11 am

Why not try renting an apartment for sometime near your daughter? If things work to expectations you can sell your home later - you are in a comfortable position to not worry too much about rent.

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AtlasShrugged?
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Re: Transition from house to apartment

Post by AtlasShrugged? » Mon Feb 19, 2018 7:51 am

chabil....Have you thought of going in the other direction? Meaning, I would give a very long look at Arcadia and especially Sierra Madre.
“If you don't know, the thing to do is not to get scared, but to learn.”

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sunny_socal
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Re: Transition from house to apartment

Post by sunny_socal » Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:04 pm

JCE66 wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 7:51 am
chabil....Have you thought of going in the other direction? Meaning, I would give a very long look at Arcadia and especially Sierra Madre.
Fantastic location. If I had to live in the LA area it would be one of my top choices. :beer

gretah
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Re: Transition from house to apartment

Post by gretah » Mon Feb 19, 2018 1:39 pm

GmanJeff wrote:
Sat Feb 17, 2018 8:37 am
One issue with moving to an apartment is that you may be facing another move in the not too distant future if either of you requires a more supportive living environment. With that in mind, perhaps consider a continuing care retirement community (CCRC), where you can better age in place without having to move yet again in a few years when you give up driving or would benefit from meals being provided for you or from other services. If you wait until one of you has a medical crisis, another move at that time will be difficult.
I completely agree!

You can read more about CCRCs and how they work in California here:
http://www.cdss.ca.gov/inforesources/Co ... d-Families

Here is a list of CCRCs in California from CA.gov
http://www.cdss.ca.gov/Portals/9/CCLD/C ... 104001-953

gretah
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Re: Transition from house to apartment

Post by gretah » Mon Feb 19, 2018 1:51 pm

If you choose to rent, make certain the bathroom and all doorways are wide enough for a wheelchair. Over 55 apartment complexes are more likely to have these.

Don't move your large furniture, like sofas and mattresses unless you are very attached to them. The cost of shipping might equal the replacement cost. And you may wish to have loveseats instead of full size sofas in an apartment. No one likes sitting in the middle seat.

When I was downsizing, I found it helpful to look at each decorative element and ask myself if I really wanted to spend the next 20+ years dusting it.

For photos and sentimental objects, I asked myself if needed more than a few pics / items of/from someone to remind me of her/him.

mouses
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Re: Transition from house to apartment

Post by mouses » Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:27 pm

WhyNotUs wrote:
Sat Feb 17, 2018 5:32 pm
To get $4k a month out of a $580,000 investment would require about 8.5% before taxes. That is a tall order to ask. A 4% return would get you about half of your desired funds.
I'm assuming they will be eating into principle. Even so, it would be tight. I am not sure why the house profit has to support the rent, since they apparently are paying that much now from somewhere for house expenses.

mouses
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Re: Transition from house to apartment

Post by mouses » Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:29 pm

gretah wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 1:51 pm

For photos and sentimental objects, I asked myself if needed more than a few pics / items of/from someone to remind me of her/him.
Scan in most of the photos. Then you can print them later if you want to, and anyway you have them to look at in digital form.

chabil
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Re: Transition from house to apartment

Post by chabil » Mon Feb 19, 2018 9:32 pm

GmanJeff wrote:
Sat Feb 17, 2018 8:37 am
One issue with moving to an apartment is that you may be facing another move in the not too distant future if either of you requires a more supportive living environment. With that in mind, perhaps consider a continuing care retirement community (CCRC), where you can better age in place without having to move yet again in a few years when you give up driving or would benefit from meals being provided for you or from other services. If you wait until one of you has a medical crisis, another move at that time will be difficult. And, consider the possibility that one of you may eventually need assisted living while the other does not. In a CCRC, one of you can move to assisted living (or, if available, rehab/nursing or memory care if needed) while the other of you remains in a nearby independent living unit in the community, able to visit easily without driving because you're both in the same complex.

Another consideration is that apartments often will be populated primarily with tenants who are still working, which can leave you without the social life you can have in a 55+ or CCRC community. While you may hope to see a lot of your family, the traffic in the LA area is very heavy even outside of the extended rush hours the area experiences and you may find that in reality you don't see them as often as you might anticipate because they are busy with their own lives and the travel time deters them from more frequent visits.

California does enjoy pleasant weather most of the time, but it also is subject to high levels of pollution if you're not right by the coast/beach, has very substantial fire and earthquake risks in places, is very crowded in many parts of the state, and has gang and other crime issues in certain areas. Taxes are extraordinarily high and the political climate there suggests they will remain burdensome and may get worse. Family and nice weather undoubtedly count for a lot, but its not going to be all blue skies.
Thank you, lots to seriously think about.

chabil
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Re: Transition from house to apartment

Post by chabil » Mon Feb 19, 2018 9:38 pm

JCE66 wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 7:51 am
chabil....Have you thought of going in the other direction? Meaning, I would give a very long look at Arcadia and especially Sierra Madre.
Thanks for the suggestion. I will take a look. What is attractive about these places?

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AtlasShrugged?
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Re: Transition from house to apartment

Post by AtlasShrugged? » Tue Feb 20, 2018 8:59 am

Thanks for the suggestion. I will take a look. What is attractive about these places?
chabil...Of the two, I am partial to Sierra Madre. It is in the foothills. Very, very nice 'town center'. Good access to medical care. If you are a 'walker', then this will be good for you. Good local theatre. Lots of 'hilly' walking. Location to me is tough to beat; EZ access to the 210.

Full disclosure: I myself lived in Sierra Madre as a small child. I still have family in Arcadia. I make the annual pilgrimage to say 'Hi'.
“If you don't know, the thing to do is not to get scared, but to learn.”

MarvinK
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Re: Transition from house to apartment

Post by MarvinK » Tue Feb 20, 2018 11:34 pm

chabil wrote:
Sat Feb 17, 2018 7:45 am
Thank you for all the great responses and tips on apartment living. It has been many years since we lived in an apartment and loved all the space in our first house with our new baby. It is reverse now and our needs are different. But I still worry if we will regret moving from house to apartment. In this forum as well as others I am yet to see someone at our stage in life regretting the move. I expect whatever regret we have will be compensated with nice weather and proximity to family and a different lifestyle.

My daughter lives in MB and we will be ok with an hour's distance at non peak time.

The economics: We have a comfortable income stream from pension, SS and investment income that provides for vacations and everything else. The 580k is a conservative amount I expect we will end up with from selling our house. My hope is income from investing it in an index fund will cover our rental expense, most of if not all.

My daughter has suggested we look in Long Beach. Any opinion about that?

I also like the areas north of LA county but worry about the recent fires and mudslides. I welcome any suggestions on locations.
More than anything I wish for a pretty view - woods, hills, anything other than freeways.

I'm familiar with the area Redondo/Torrance and SoCal in general.
I do agree that since you qualify for the mobile home parks, they are a great economical option, whether Torrance, Seal Beach or Huntington Beach.
Torrance was laid out as a city to have a lot of parks and safety is a priority...and home to a gold medal snowboarder!
"Downtown Torrance" the historic section is really a walkable nice little community.
Lomita is a little known gem, well-kept secret!
San Pedro has some nice views of the harbor.
Long Beach, near the waterfront is generally known as wealthy, however some areas a little more inland used to be known for gangs. This is one area where a local realtor can advise on the neighborhood level.
Since you don't have children in school, school district is not the only concern, and you can consider a couple of cities.

I wouldn't be too concerned about a rental house selling out from under you. Although it is possible.
Most investment property owners I know there would have to pay large capital gains taxes to sell, and they are in it for the long run. Just ask what their intentions are.

Fires and mudslides. Generally the houses that live close to Angeles National Forest have been through this before.
I thought you were going to say earthquakes? We have also been through earthquakes. For earthquakes, just understand that the houses are built to take lateral forces into account. Also you will find that many houses have shaking protection on utilities. Also residents don't put breakable things up on high shelves. It's not something to worry about every day.

I hope you both really enjoy the weather, outdoor living, and all the things to see and do in SoCal.

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