PSA: Bank of America now charges $12/month for checking

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ThriftyPhD
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Re: PSA: Bank of America now charges $12/month for checking

Post by ThriftyPhD »

Bacchus01 wrote: Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:01 pm
Pajamas wrote: Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:23 pm Seems like you expect a lot for next to nothing. As a BoA shareholder, I am glad to see that they are instituting fees to cover the cost of providing services to you.
So, I'm supposed to pay BOA for accessing and leveraging my money? How is that a service?
The OP is getting a free safe deposit box, free cashier checks. The money is now also FDIC insured, which wouldn't be the case if it was stuffed under the mattress. It can be accessed from hundreds of locations around the country for free, used to pay bills for free, or accessed anywhere in the world for a small fee.

That seems like a lot to me. Whether you value it or not, that's up to you, but there are a lot of services being provided here.
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triceratop
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Re: PSA: Bank of America now charges $12/month for checking

Post by triceratop »

whodidntante wrote: Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:49 pm
finite_difference wrote: Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:26 pm
Jack FFR1846 wrote: Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:55 pm There's a reason why BoA's nick name is "the Evil Empire".

(cue Darth Vader music)
I thought Wells Fargo took over that role :twisted:
WF has been limited to one Death Star.
Given recent news, that is hilarious. Don't worry, some people got your joke.
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2pedals
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Re: PSA: Bank of America now charges $12/month for checking

Post by 2pedals »

Pajamas wrote: Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:23 pm Seems like you expect a lot for next to nothing. As a BoA shareholder, I am glad to see that they are instituting fees to cover the cost of providing services to you.
Okay, yes BoA needs to make money for it's shareholders. As a consumer and credit union member, I am just not seeing why I would want to pay for it when most credit unions provide checking accounts and some commercial checking accounts (i.e. fidelity cash management, Schwab) without a monthly fee. $12/mo. times 420 months (35 years) = $5,040 is something. Currently I am satisfied with service my credit union provides.
ThriftyPhD
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Re: PSA: Bank of America now charges $12/month for checking

Post by ThriftyPhD »

2pedals wrote: Thu Feb 15, 2018 1:04 pm
Pajamas wrote: Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:23 pm Seems like you expect a lot for next to nothing. As a BoA shareholder, I am glad to see that they are instituting fees to cover the cost of providing services to you.
Okay, yes BoA needs to make money for it's shareholders. As a consumer and credit union member, I am just not seeing why I would want to pay for it when most credit unions provide checking accounts and some commercial checking accounts (i.e. fidelity cash management, Schwab) without a monthly fee. $12/mo. times 420 months (35 years) = $5,040 is something. Currently I am satisfied with service my credit union provides.
Do you use your credit union account, or do you park <$300 there? Does your credit union give you free safe deposit boxes and cashier checks? My guess is the credit union would start charging you a fee if your parked <$300 with no direct deposit. I know mine will.

BofA doesn't charge $12/mo to everyone, just those that fall under a balance limit. For the core checking the fee is waved if you:

Have at least one qualifying direct deposit of $250 or more
or
Maintain a minimum daily balance of $1,500 or more

So if you have $250 from your paycheck go in each month, no fee. If you're not depositing money, and you're not maintaining a balance, why keep the account open?
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Pajamas
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Re: PSA: Bank of America now charges $12/month for checking

Post by Pajamas »

ThriftyPhD wrote: Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:40 pm
Bacchus01 wrote: Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:01 pm
Pajamas wrote: Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:23 pm Seems like you expect a lot for next to nothing. As a BoA shareholder, I am glad to see that they are instituting fees to cover the cost of providing services to you.
So, I'm supposed to pay BOA for accessing and leveraging my money? How is that a service?
The OP is getting a free safe deposit box, free cashier checks. The money is now also FDIC insured, which wouldn't be the case if it was stuffed under the mattress. It can be accessed from hundreds of locations around the country for free, used to pay bills for free, or accessed anywhere in the world for a small fee.

That seems like a lot to me. Whether you value it or not, that's up to you, but there are a lot of services being provided here.
Note that he is not even using the checking account on which they are charging a fee. It is dormant. His only account in use is a savings account with a $300 balance.

My many banks over the years have never charged me any fees and have paid me interest but I have maintained minimum balances and used the accounts. The OP here wants to eat free cake, get two scoops of ice cream with it, have seconds, and take a piece home for later.
MrNewEngland
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Re: PSA: Bank of America now charges $12/month for checking

Post by MrNewEngland »

I'm lucky that I am a platinum member (or whatever it's called) so I get free accounts. If they charged me $12/month I would immediately move my checking/savings to a credit union, cancel my credit cards, and move my IRAs to Vanguard.
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bligh
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Re: PSA: Bank of America now charges $12/month for checking

Post by bligh »

I hate BofA customer service. I was with them for a few years, and closed my account with them several years ago. I just re-opened an account with them late last year to take advantage of the preferred rewards benefits. I try to stick with Merrill Edge website/customer service as much as possible and avoid BofA if I can.

Funnily, I have had nothing but good experience from Wells Fargo customer service. Currently Wells Fargo provides me with fewer perks than BofA but I continue to keep them as my primary Brick and Mortar bank. I just dont trust BofA. I have their credit card that supposedly offers me primary rental collision damage coverage when I rent internationally. I am not even sure if I should trust that being there for me if I need it, and am leaning towards using my Chase card when making rentals.

Having said that, the fee & terms to avoid the fee are in line with what most major banks brick and mortar banks are asking for.
General Disarray
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Re: PSA: Bank of America now charges $12/month for checking

Post by General Disarray »

Cashier's checks are not free, at least not for the core checking account, which is what it sounds like the O.P. has. A cashier's check is $10.00.
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Pajamas
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Re: PSA: Bank of America now charges $12/month for checking

Post by Pajamas »

MrNewEngland wrote: Thu Feb 15, 2018 1:30 pm I'm lucky that I am a platinum member (or whatever it's called) so I get free accounts. If they charged me $12/month I would immediately move my checking/savings to a credit union, cancel my credit cards, and move my IRAs to Vanguard.
You have to keep something like $50,000 on deposit for Platinum. The OP in this thread has $300 on deposit and gets a lot for that small balance. He is upset because they have instituted a $12 fee on a dormant account.

https://www.bankofamerica.com/preferred-rewards/
ThriftyPhD
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Re: PSA: Bank of America now charges $12/month for checking

Post by ThriftyPhD »

bligh wrote: Thu Feb 15, 2018 1:37 pm Funnily, I have had nothing but good experience from Wells Fargo customer service.
Indeed. Instead of charging you fees for accounts you're not using, they will go ahead and open new ones for you, all without bothering you for trifling things like consent or permission. :sharebeer
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bligh
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Re: PSA: Bank of America now charges $12/month for checking

Post by bligh »

ThriftyPhD wrote: Thu Feb 15, 2018 1:44 pm
bligh wrote: Thu Feb 15, 2018 1:37 pm Funnily, I have had nothing but good experience from Wells Fargo customer service.
Indeed. Instead of charging you fees for accounts you're not using, they will go ahead and open new ones for you, all without bothering you for trifling things like consent or permission. :sharebeer
For sure. However, they only went above and beyond like that for a small fraction of their their total customer base. I have not seen them providing me with that service yet, so I cannot factor it into my experience.

To BofA's credit. I, personally, wouldn't have been at all surprised, if they had offered a similar service to their own customers, had they thought of it first, or if the government hadn't taken a disliking to it.

:sharebeer


PS. I am not under any illusions about these big "evil" banks. Having said all that, Wells Fargo's employees have been polite, upfront, helpful and courteous to me. It may just be isolated to my region. Who knows?
onourway
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Re: PSA: Bank of America now charges $12/month for checking

Post by onourway »

I'm a little surprised at the tolerance of bank fees here for a group that often complains about a single basis point in investment fees. $144/year for a checking account is robbery.

I have an account at my local credit union where I typically have less than $10 which is 100% free. Most of my banking is now done with Schwab which is also 100% free including unlimited world-wide ATM reimbursement, free checks, free bill-pay and so on. Why anyone would pay a bank for holding their money, even $300 is beyond me.
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bligh
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Re: PSA: Bank of America now charges $12/month for checking

Post by bligh »

onourway wrote: Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:08 pm I'm a little surprised at the tolerance of bank fees here for a group that often complains about a single basis point in investment fees. $144/year for a checking account is robbery.

I have an account at my local credit union where I typically have less than $10 which is 100% free. Most of my banking is now done with Schwab which is also 100% free including unlimited world-wide ATM reimbursement, free checks, free bill-pay and so on. Why anyone would pay a bank for holding their money, even $300 is beyond me.
Personally, I am not okay with the fee. I am just pointing out that it is in line with the other major brick and mortar banks and they (like the other major banks) provide several somewhat reasonable ways of avoiding the fee. The only reason anyone would straight up pay the fee each month, is because they are either ignorant of the alternatives, or haven't been checking their bank statements and so haven't noticed they are paying for it.
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Clever_Username
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Re: PSA: Bank of America now charges $12/month for checking

Post by Clever_Username »

I have had my account at BofA since the late 80s. I think I was charged a fee once, and I called and got it reversed... and an apology letter got sent to me. I should have kept and framed that letter if I had known how rare it'd be.

In any case, I have all my bill pay and such set up at BofA. Convenient, click a few buttons, pay bills. Have my CCs through them, with the 1.1% cash back on everything except the things I get more on. Paycheck comes in at the end of the month, bill pay money goes out, then I reduce the account balance to what I want to leave there (about 1.25 months expenses total) and send the rest to Vanguard.

There are only nine domestic companies I own more stock in than BofA, so I guess I'm glad they're doing well. If I were being charged I'd probably move banks, but I'm fine with what I get. I don't keep enough money there for the lack of interest to be an issue.
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ThriftyPhD
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Re: PSA: Bank of America now charges $12/month for checking

Post by ThriftyPhD »

onourway wrote: Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:08 pm I'm a little surprised at the tolerance of bank fees here for a group that often complains about a single basis point in investment fees. $144/year for a checking account is robbery.

I have an account at my local credit union where I typically have less than $10 which is 100% free. Most of my banking is now done with Schwab which is also 100% free including unlimited world-wide ATM reimbursement, free checks, free bill-pay and so on. Why anyone would pay a bank for holding their money, even $300 is beyond me.
I don't think anyone is OK with paying bank fees. I wouldn't pay them. But I'm OK with a bank charging them for account that doesn't meet some reasonable metrics to avoid the fee, such as an account minimum or a requirement for direct deposit. If you're not using the account, why keep it open? It's costing the bank money to keep it open, and you're not using it so it's no benefit to you. The fee is the bank trying to convince you to use it or close it.

All of my banking is 100% free, but all of my accounts WOULD have a fee if I dropped below account minimums or failed to make a deposit. I only keep accounts open if I'm using them, so meeting the minimums is not a concern.

Vanguard charges $20/year for your brokerage account, or $20/year per fund in your retirement account. However, you can avoid this fee by keeping more than $10k total in your brokerage, $10k in each fund in your retirement account, or simply signing up for e-delivery service. These are reasonable requirements. Someone parking $20 in a brokerage account and demanding paper statements would cost Vanguard more than $20/year in account maintenance fees.
onourway
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Re: PSA: Bank of America now charges $12/month for checking

Post by onourway »

ThriftyPhD wrote: Thu Feb 15, 2018 3:21 pm I don't think anyone is OK with paying bank fees. I wouldn't pay them. But I'm OK with a bank charging them for account that doesn't meet some reasonable metrics to avoid the fee, such as an account minimum or a requirement for direct deposit. If you're not using the account, why keep it open? It's costing the bank money to keep it open, and you're not using it so it's no benefit to you. The fee is the bank trying to convince you to use it or close it.

All of my banking is 100% free, but all of my accounts WOULD have a fee if I dropped below account minimums or failed to make a deposit. I only keep accounts open if I'm using them, so meeting the minimums is not a concern.

Vanguard charges $20/year for your brokerage account, or $20/year per fund in your retirement account. However, you can avoid this fee by keeping more than $10k total in your brokerage, $10k in each fund in your retirement account, or simply signing up for e-delivery service. These are reasonable requirements. Someone parking $20 in a brokerage account and demanding paper statements would cost Vanguard more than $20/year in account maintenance fees.
I just think that it's a way of thinking that's out of date. Compare BOA's model which is punitive - "find a way to use this account or we will charge you $12/month" with Schwab's model - "we'd like to have you as a customer. Here's a free checking account with all sorts of perks. We hope you'll consider our other services as well.'

I see Vanguard's $20 account fee as basically a way to dis-incentivize paper statements. It's free, unless you want paper.
craimund
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Re: PSA: Bank of America now charges $12/month for checking

Post by craimund »

That's why I bank with Wells Fargo. They don't play games like that with their customers. :wink:

In all seriousness, I have been able to avoid fees on my Wells Fargo checking by having direct deposit to the account. Also have a checking account with E*Trade that doesn't have fees.
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ThriftyPhD
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Re: PSA: Bank of America now charges $12/month for checking

Post by ThriftyPhD »

onourway wrote: Thu Feb 15, 2018 3:29 pm
ThriftyPhD wrote: Thu Feb 15, 2018 3:21 pm I don't think anyone is OK with paying bank fees. I wouldn't pay them. But I'm OK with a bank charging them for account that doesn't meet some reasonable metrics to avoid the fee, such as an account minimum or a requirement for direct deposit. If you're not using the account, why keep it open? It's costing the bank money to keep it open, and you're not using it so it's no benefit to you. The fee is the bank trying to convince you to use it or close it.

All of my banking is 100% free, but all of my accounts WOULD have a fee if I dropped below account minimums or failed to make a deposit. I only keep accounts open if I'm using them, so meeting the minimums is not a concern.

Vanguard charges $20/year for your brokerage account, or $20/year per fund in your retirement account. However, you can avoid this fee by keeping more than $10k total in your brokerage, $10k in each fund in your retirement account, or simply signing up for e-delivery service. These are reasonable requirements. Someone parking $20 in a brokerage account and demanding paper statements would cost Vanguard more than $20/year in account maintenance fees.
I just think that it's a way of thinking that's out of date. Compare BOA's model which is punitive - "find a way to use this account or we will charge you $12/month" with Schwab's model - "we'd like to have you as a customer. Here's a free checking account with all sorts of perks. We hope you'll consider our other services as well.'

I see Vanguard's $20 account fee as basically a way to dis-incentivize paper statements. It's free, unless you want paper.
Have you actually tried to maintain a zero or low balance?

https://www.consumeraffairs.com/finance/schwab.html

I'm seeing a lot of complaints that people have had their accounts closed without warning for 'business decisions'. Perhaps instead of charging a small fee for accounts that aren't profitable, they simply liquidate them without warning?
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Re: PSA: Bank of America now charges $12/month for checking

Post by Jack FFR1846 »

I removed the quoting so I can answer at least for my credit union (DCU)

online systems: Excellent at DCU. I can see all accounts including joint, make transfers between accounts, get online pdf of both sides of cashed checks, order checks, check balances, etc. Good site that's easy to use and logical.

apps/systems for things like bill pay, wire transfers, account transfers, mobile deposit: Yup, yup, yup, yup....

Does your local credit union let you insert a stack of checks to deposit in the ATM, auto scan for amounts, and immediately deposit?: Yes they do. They don't even have deposit slips anymore. Or just take a photo with the phone.

reimburse 3rd party ATM fees: Yup

BofA has ATMs in many states: Credit unions use the Co-op system. These include 30,000 fee free ATMs (vs 15,900 BoA ATMs). To add, this allows members to use any co-op credit union branch as their own. Co-op branches: 5,341 (plus another 1,763 kiosks in 7-11 stores, BoA: 5,244.

Now, if your local credit union has a killer online system, refunds all 3rd party ATM fees, allows things like mobile deposits, and is local to both home and work, then the credit union is an attractive option.
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NewPhoneWhoDis
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Re: PSA: Bank of America now charges $12/month for checking

Post by NewPhoneWhoDis »

Local credit union or an online bank are the way to go. There is literally no reason for anyone to do deposit-side banking at BoA other than inertia, and I say that as a shareholder.
mouses
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Re: PSA: Bank of America now charges $12/month for checking

Post by mouses »

B of A, always looking for a way to do in their customers.

I have checking accounts at two credit unions, no fees, no minimum balance.
ThriftyPhD
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Re: PSA: Bank of America now charges $12/month for checking

Post by ThriftyPhD »

NewPhoneWhoDis wrote: Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:35 pm Local credit union or an online bank are the way to go. There is literally no reason for anyone to do deposit-side banking at BoA other than inertia, and I say that as a shareholder.
Is there a reason NOT to use BofA or similar big bank? Does your local credit union offer you something that BofA doesn't provide?

I can understand the online bank for things like savings accounts. The interest rate is better than anything a brick and mortar can provide. But local CUs have terrible rates to. What does your local CU offer to get you choose them?
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Sheepdog
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Re: PSA: Bank of America now charges $12/month for checking

Post by Sheepdog »

Times are changing..
My local bank offers seniors free checking if we keep a monthly average of $3000. If the account average drops below that in any month the fee will be $15. Interest earned 0.01%. Whoopee.

Another bank sent me an invitation this week to join their free senior check club. Minimum balance will be only $795 and a fee of $7.95 if it falls below that. Debit cards are free. And they will give me 0.01% also. Double whoopee. I must have at least one direct deposit of $500 or more. And debit cards are free. That is better, but if I wanted to change banks the idea of changing 6 direct deposits and 12 direct debits and change by brokerage and other bank clearing house records is daunting. But, if what I am hearing from bank employees (hearsay) my present bank will be announcing debit card use charges soon.
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Glockenspiel
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Re: PSA: Bank of America now charges $12/month for checking

Post by Glockenspiel »

ThriftyPhD wrote: Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:37 pm
Maverick3320 wrote: Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:10 am What's the upside of using BoA over your local credit union?

(legit question)
Depends on your local credit union. Most credit unions have non existent or terrible online systems. If these are valuable to you, this can be a deal breaker. BofA and other big national banks generally have good websites/apps/systems for things like bill pay, wire transfers, account transfers, mobile deposit, etc. Does your local credit union let you insert a stack of checks to deposit in the ATM, auto scan for amounts, and immediately deposit, or do you need to use a deposit slip and an envelope and a worker might get to it tomorrow? Many of the ATMs my local credit union put out didn't even accept deposits...

If your local credit union doesn't reimburse 3rd party ATM fees (mine doesn't), then using it outside of your hometown is costly. BofA has ATMs in many states. If you work more than a couple miles from where you live, your local credit union isn't very local to one of those locations. If BofA or another big bank has a branch in your hometown and worktown, this is a big bonus. If your spouse works in a different town than you, does the credit union have a branch there as well?

Now, if your local credit union has a killer online system, refunds all 3rd party ATM fees, allows things like mobile deposits, and is local to both home and work, then the credit union is an attractive option.
My credit union has a great, easy to use app where I can login with the touch of a finger, has check deposit by snapping an image with my phone, has no ATM fees for using an out of network ATM, has pretty good interest rates on checking and savings deposits, and had the lowest mortgage rate around for when I refinanced to a 15-year mortgage (2.50% in November 2012).
Bacchus01
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Re: PSA: Bank of America now charges $12/month for checking

Post by Bacchus01 »

ThriftyPhD wrote: Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:40 pm
Bacchus01 wrote: Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:01 pm
Pajamas wrote: Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:23 pm Seems like you expect a lot for next to nothing. As a BoA shareholder, I am glad to see that they are instituting fees to cover the cost of providing services to you.
So, I'm supposed to pay BOA for accessing and leveraging my money? How is that a service?
The OP is getting a free safe deposit box, free cashier checks. The money is now also FDIC insured, which wouldn't be the case if it was stuffed under the mattress. It can be accessed from hundreds of locations around the country for free, used to pay bills for free, or accessed anywhere in the world for a small fee.

That seems like a lot to me. Whether you value it or not, that's up to you, but there are a lot of services being provided here.
And, there are a lot of other places that will do that for free.

And it’s not free. The bank is leveraging the deposit.
tmcc
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Re: PSA: Bank of America now charges $12/month for checking

Post by tmcc »

Pajamas wrote: Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:12 pm
sunny_socal wrote: Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:06 pm
You think the money people deposit at a bank is doing nothing? The banks turn around and lend it to someone else immediately. I think something like 90% of bank deposits are loaned out regardless of the indicated 'balance.' The money isn't really there, the balance is more like a promise to pay you should you demand it.
:confused

I guess they should send you a thank you letter for being so magnanimous towards them. . . . :P

How much do you think they are actually making off your $300 deposit after paying you the $0.06 interest or however much it is every year? Enough to cover your safe deposit box and cashier's checks? Some banks now charge for talking to a teller instead of using the ATM.

How many lollipops and free pens do you take when you go in for your cashier's checks? :twisted:
the reserve ratio in the united states is 12% based on a cursory search. that means that they can lend $2200 on that $300 deposit based on mental math. if they put it in a savings account, thats $33/yr in interest at 1.5% as a base benchmark. of course, they demand a far higher rate of return.

so to answer your question, how much are they making? in aggregate, much more than you think.

i routinely overpay my BOA credit card for spite so they have to cut me a check because I know it costs them like $30/each.
scrabbler1
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Re: PSA: Bank of America now charges $12/month for checking

Post by scrabbler1 »

I think about the changes in services offered by major banks in the last 30 years. Some are improvements, others are ways the banks have nickeled-and-dimed their customers, charging for things which used to be free.

Early 1990s: No online banking, as the internet was in its infancy. But my bank offered the equivalent of interest checking by allowing customers to keep the money used to meet its minimum balance requirement in a money market savings account which at the time earned about 2%, and both accounts allowed checkwriting. The minimum balance was in the $1,500-$2,500 range, so that added about $3 or $4 per month. We got our canceled checks with our monthly statements at no charge. Many banks did not charge any ATM fees when using other banks' ATMs. Drive-up teller windows began disappearing and were replaced by drive-up ATMs.

Late 1990s: The interest-checking equivalent for the low balance disappeared, so I had to consolidate the two accounts into a single, no-interest checking account. That was a hidden fee of $3-$4 per month. ATM fees for using other banks' ATMs began popping up, so I had to use only my own bank's ATMs. Not a big deal because my own bank had lots of ATMs and in all the key places such as near my home and my office. But I can see this being a PITA for many customers.

Early 2000s: Online banking began appearing. I wasn't really interested in it (yet). Canceled checks began disappearing from monthly statements and were replaced by check images. They were tougher to read, in case I needed to refer to one (which did happen once in 2004, thankfully, I was still getting my actual canceled checks by then). Minimum balances began rising, but after some bank mergers once in a while they actually dropped. POS terminals began appearing at stores so your ATM card became a debit card which could be used in many more places.

Later 2000s and 2010s: Check images began disappearing from monthly statements. To see (and print) them, you had to have online banking or else you paid a fee. Or you needed to have a really large minimum balance (often at least $10k) earning nearly zilch, another hidden fee because that money could be earning a nominal amount elsewhere.

So, we can do more things than we did before, but we pay for things which used to be free. It's a tradeoff.
mouses
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Re: PSA: Bank of America now charges $12/month for checking

Post by mouses »

ThriftyPhD wrote: Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:42 pm But local CUs have terrible rates to. What does your local CU offer to get you choose them?
Most of my local CUs offer rates on CDs that are 4 or 5 times the rates local banks offer. Also a cu has never tried to rip me off or do me in in other ways, as b of a and another big bank did.
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sunny_socal
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Re: PSA: Bank of America now charges $12/month for checking

Post by sunny_socal »

I'm going to try getting some of the fees reversed now that I have the account padded with $1500.
- Should I just march into a branch and talk to the manager?
- Or try the 'customer support' phone number? (The very thought gives me hives.... I hate BofA phone CS)

Other points:
- I have accounts at several credit unions, none of them charge me account fees. They either have a $0 min balance or something incredibly low (eg. $5)
- I moved my daily banking to Chase last year, very happy with them so far.
- I've been a BofA customer for about 22 years. I like their website and the fact that they have many ATMS. Their branches and CS are definitely not as good as Chase.
- I still do a $20/month direct deposit into BofA. The $300 in savings was to satisfy the required minimum. I think stopping my 'big' paycheck DD triggered the account fee.

I'll never bank anywhere that charges me a fee, there are many free alternatives. (I have the lock box due to some old employment relationship, back when BofA merged with another company.)
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FrugalInvestor
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Re: PSA: Bank of America now charges $12/month for checking

Post by FrugalInvestor »

sunny_socal wrote: Fri Feb 16, 2018 9:52 am I'm going to try getting some of the fees reversed now that I have the account padded with $1500.
- Should I just march into a branch and talk to the manager?
- Or try the 'customer support' phone number? (The very thought gives me hives.... I hate BofA phone CS)

Other points:
- I have accounts at several credit unions, none of them charge me account fees. They either have a $0 min balance or something incredibly low (eg. $5)
- I moved my daily banking to Chase last year, very happy with them so far.
- I've been a BofA customer for about 22 years. I like their website and the fact that they have many ATMS. Their branches and CS are definitely not as good as Chase.
- I still do a $20/month direct deposit into BofA. The $300 in savings was to satisfy the required minimum. I think stopping my 'big' paycheck DD triggered the account fee.

I'll never bank anywhere that charges me a fee, there are many free alternatives. (I have the lock box due to some old employment relationship, back when BofA merged with another company.)
I would call and make an appointment to talk face-to-face with a manager at the branch you typically deal with.

I'm curious, why do you have accounts at "several credit unions" plus these accounts at BofA plus a Chase account(s)? Perhaps the reason you're beginning to run into minimum balance fees is that you have your money spread too thin Sunny.
Have a plan, stay the course and simplify, but most importantly....Ignore the Noise!
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Re: PSA: Bank of America now charges $12/month for checking

Post by ThriftyPhD »

mouses wrote: Fri Feb 16, 2018 9:31 am
ThriftyPhD wrote: Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:42 pm But local CUs have terrible rates to. What does your local CU offer to get you choose them?
Most of my local CUs offer rates on CDs that are 4 or 5 times the rates local banks offer. Also a cu has never tried to rip me off or do me in in other ways, as b of a and another big bank did.
Local bank CDs are terrible, so even 5 x terrible might not be a good deal. There are three 'local' CUs I've dealt with. Current, old, and old old, all in different states. I just looked up CD rates there.

2 year
Current 0.45%
Old 0.2%
Old Old 0.5%

5 year
Current 1.3%
Old 1.1%
Old Old 1.25%

A no penalty 11 month CD at Ally with < $5000 deposit gives similar rates as the 5 year CDs at my CUs.

Does your local CU offer better CD rates than any of the online banks? If so, it sounds like you have a great local CU. If not, why are you doing business with them?
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Re: PSA: Bank of America now charges $12/month for checking

Post by ThriftyPhD »

sunny_socal wrote: Fri Feb 16, 2018 9:52 am I'm going to try getting some of the fees reversed now that I have the account padded with $1500.
- Should I just march into a branch and talk to the manager?
- Or try the 'customer support' phone number? (The very thought gives me hives.... I hate BofA phone CS)
Is it worth your time and fuel costs for $12? I would try the phone first, or even email/chat/secure message. "I didn't expect a fee. I've increased my account to meet the current minimum. Can you please waive the fee?" If the easy solutions don't work, then you can try the in person approach. Depending on the branch, you would have to pay me more than $12 to wait in the line :)
sunny_socal wrote: Fri Feb 16, 2018 9:52 am - I still do a $20/month direct deposit into BofA. The $300 in savings was to satisfy the required minimum. I think stopping my 'big' paycheck DD triggered the account fee.
Yes, core checking is $1500 minimum OR $250 DD/month
sunny_socal wrote: Fri Feb 16, 2018 9:52 am I'll never bank anywhere that charges me a fee, there are many free alternatives. (I have the lock box due to some old employment relationship, back when BofA merged with another company.)
Nor should you bank anywhere that charges you a fee. But if your balance is zero, and you're not using the account, are you really banking there?
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Pajamas
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Re: PSA: Bank of America now charges $12/month for checking

Post by Pajamas »

tmcc wrote: Fri Feb 16, 2018 7:54 am the reserve ratio in the united states is 12% based on a cursory search. that means that they can lend $2200 on that $300 deposit based on mental math. if they put it in a savings account, thats $33/yr in interest at 1.5% as a base benchmark. of course, they demand a far higher rate of return.

so to answer your question, how much are they making? in aggregate, much more than you think.
There are costs involved in all of the lending and administration behind that $33. How much are they actually making off the $300 savings account? Little or nothing. You would have to look at the $300 as a proportion of BoA reserves vs. their profit from lending activities to determine it.

How much are they actually making off the $0 balance checking? Nothing. It's costing them and also affecting statistics like their average account balance.
tmcc wrote: Fri Feb 16, 2018 7:54 am
i routinely overpay my BOA credit card for spite so they have to cut me a check because I know it costs them like $30/each.
You should go into the nearest BoA branch and clog the toilets up with wads of paper towels and then flush them all multiple times, too. That would really get under their skin.

Seriously, if you dislike BoA so much, grow up and get a different credit card.
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Re: PSA: Bank of America now charges $12/month for checking

Post by student »

tmcc wrote: Fri Feb 16, 2018 7:54 am
Pajamas wrote: Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:12 pm
sunny_socal wrote: Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:06 pm
You think the money people deposit at a bank is doing nothing? The banks turn around and lend it to someone else immediately. I think something like 90% of bank deposits are loaned out regardless of the indicated 'balance.' The money isn't really there, the balance is more like a promise to pay you should you demand it.
:confused

I guess they should send you a thank you letter for being so magnanimous towards them. . . . :P

How much do you think they are actually making off your $300 deposit after paying you the $0.06 interest or however much it is every year? Enough to cover your safe deposit box and cashier's checks? Some banks now charge for talking to a teller instead of using the ATM.

How many lollipops and free pens do you take when you go in for your cashier's checks? :twisted:
the reserve ratio in the united states is 12% based on a cursory search. that means that they can lend $2200 on that $300 deposit based on mental math. if they put it in a savings account, thats $33/yr in interest at 1.5% as a base benchmark. of course, they demand a far higher rate of return.

so to answer your question, how much are they making? in aggregate, much more than you think.

i routinely overpay my BOA credit card for spite so they have to cut me a check because I know it costs them like $30/each.
Are you sure that it is not the reverse? You deposit $300. The bank keeps 12%, that is $36 in reserve and can lend $264.

https://www.thoughtco.com/introduction- ... io-1146307
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Re: PSA: Bank of America now charges $12/month for checking

Post by sunny_socal »

FrugalInvestor wrote: Fri Feb 16, 2018 10:02 am
sunny_socal wrote: Fri Feb 16, 2018 9:52 am I'm going to try getting some of the fees reversed now that I have the account padded with $1500.
- Should I just march into a branch and talk to the manager?
- Or try the 'customer support' phone number? (The very thought gives me hives.... I hate BofA phone CS)

Other points:
- I have accounts at several credit unions, none of them charge me account fees. They either have a $0 min balance or something incredibly low (eg. $5)
- I moved my daily banking to Chase last year, very happy with them so far.
- I've been a BofA customer for about 22 years. I like their website and the fact that they have many ATMS. Their branches and CS are definitely not as good as Chase.
- I still do a $20/month direct deposit into BofA. The $300 in savings was to satisfy the required minimum. I think stopping my 'big' paycheck DD triggered the account fee.

I'll never bank anywhere that charges me a fee, there are many free alternatives. (I have the lock box due to some old employment relationship, back when BofA merged with another company.)
I would call and make an appointment to talk face-to-face with a manager at the branch you typically deal with.

I'm curious, why do you have accounts at "several credit unions" plus these accounts at BofA plus a Chase account(s)? Perhaps the reason you're beginning to run into minimum balance fees is that you have your money spread too thin Sunny.
- Credit Union #1: Excellent HELOC rate, $0 cost to set up, 0.5% discount with direct deposit (only $100/month.) Don't use the HELOC much but at least it's there in case I want it.
- Credit Union #2: Excellent Auto loan rate
- Credit Union #3: Excellent 3% cash back credit card

I don't "bank" at any of those, I run my cash through Chase. They have clean branches, wonderful staff, plenty of B&M locations and ATMs.

I just never imagined a checking account would carry a fee, $0 balance or not. I've never been charged such a fee in my life. Le$$on learned. I'll try the online chat or CS line to see if I can get my $12 monthly fee and $12 overdraft fees back.
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Re: PSA: Bank of America now charges $12/month for checking

Post by FrugalInvestor »

sunny_socal wrote: Fri Feb 16, 2018 10:44 am
FrugalInvestor wrote: Fri Feb 16, 2018 10:02 am
sunny_socal wrote: Fri Feb 16, 2018 9:52 am I'm going to try getting some of the fees reversed now that I have the account padded with $1500.
- Should I just march into a branch and talk to the manager?
- Or try the 'customer support' phone number? (The very thought gives me hives.... I hate BofA phone CS)

Other points:
- I have accounts at several credit unions, none of them charge me account fees. They either have a $0 min balance or something incredibly low (eg. $5)
- I moved my daily banking to Chase last year, very happy with them so far.
- I've been a BofA customer for about 22 years. I like their website and the fact that they have many ATMS. Their branches and CS are definitely not as good as Chase.
- I still do a $20/month direct deposit into BofA. The $300 in savings was to satisfy the required minimum. I think stopping my 'big' paycheck DD triggered the account fee.

I'll never bank anywhere that charges me a fee, there are many free alternatives. (I have the lock box due to some old employment relationship, back when BofA merged with another company.)
I would call and make an appointment to talk face-to-face with a manager at the branch you typically deal with.

I'm curious, why do you have accounts at "several credit unions" plus these accounts at BofA plus a Chase account(s)? Perhaps the reason you're beginning to run into minimum balance fees is that you have your money spread too thin Sunny.
- Credit Union #1: Excellent HELOC rate, $0 cost to set up, 0.5% discount with direct deposit (only $100/month.) Don't use the HELOC much but at least it's there in case I want it.
- Credit Union #2: Excellent Auto loan rate
- Credit Union #3: Excellent 3% cash back credit card

I don't "bank" at any of those, I run my cash through Chase. They have clean branches, wonderful staff, plenty of B&M locations and ATMs.

I just never imagined a checking account would carry a fee, $0 balance or not. I've never been charged such a fee in my life. Le$$on learned. I'll try the online chat or CS line to see if I can get my $12 monthly fee and $12 overdraft fees back.
So you're shopping around and getting the best deal you can get on each individual product. There's no problem with that, I certainly have been known to do it, but don't be surprised when a company says to you that you aren't a profitable customer so something needs to change. If you're going to 'play the game' you need to know and heed the rules. My guess is that the rules were spelled out to you in advance and that you may have missed or ignored that notice. I know that I have always been notified in advance of changes in BofA fees (the last being the requirement that I auto deposit at least $250/mo - up from $50/month - to avoid fees on my checking).
Have a plan, stay the course and simplify, but most importantly....Ignore the Noise!
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Doom&Gloom
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Re: PSA: Bank of America now charges $12/month for checking

Post by Doom&Gloom »

Sounds way too complicated to me. I'd rather spend my time doing something else.
mouses
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Re: PSA: Bank of America now charges $12/month for checking

Post by mouses »

ThriftyPhD wrote: Fri Feb 16, 2018 10:12 am
mouses wrote: Fri Feb 16, 2018 9:31 am
ThriftyPhD wrote: Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:42 pm But local CUs have terrible rates to. What does your local CU offer to get you choose them?
Most of my local CUs offer rates on CDs that are 4 or 5 times the rates local banks offer. Also a cu has never tried to rip me off or do me in in other ways, as b of a and another big bank did.
Local bank CDs are terrible, so even 5 x terrible might not be a good deal. There are three 'local' CUs I've dealt with. Current, old, and old old, all in different states. I just looked up CD rates there.

2 year
Current 0.45%
Old 0.2%
Old Old 0.5%

5 year
Current 1.3%
Old 1.1%
Old Old 1.25%

A no penalty 11 month CD at Ally with < $5000 deposit gives similar rates as the 5 year CDs at my CUs.

Does your local CU offer better CD rates than any of the online banks? If so, it sounds like you have a great local CU. If not, why are you doing business with them?
I have accounts at four CUs. Their five year CD rates range from 2.0 to 2.25%.
ThriftyPhD
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Re: PSA: Bank of America now charges $12/month for checking

Post by ThriftyPhD »

mouses wrote: Fri Feb 16, 2018 2:13 pm
ThriftyPhD wrote: Fri Feb 16, 2018 10:12 am
mouses wrote: Fri Feb 16, 2018 9:31 am
ThriftyPhD wrote: Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:42 pm But local CUs have terrible rates to. What does your local CU offer to get you choose them?
Most of my local CUs offer rates on CDs that are 4 or 5 times the rates local banks offer. Also a cu has never tried to rip me off or do me in in other ways, as b of a and another big bank did.
Local bank CDs are terrible, so even 5 x terrible might not be a good deal. There are three 'local' CUs I've dealt with. Current, old, and old old, all in different states. I just looked up CD rates there.

2 year
Current 0.45%
Old 0.2%
Old Old 0.5%

5 year
Current 1.3%
Old 1.1%
Old Old 1.25%

A no penalty 11 month CD at Ally with < $5000 deposit gives similar rates as the 5 year CDs at my CUs.

Does your local CU offer better CD rates than any of the online banks? If so, it sounds like you have a great local CU. If not, why are you doing business with them?
I have accounts at four CUs. Their five year CD rates range from 2.0 to 2.25%.
Ally 2.5%
Synchrony Bank 2.5%
Capital One 360 2.65%
ThriftyPhD wrote: Fri Feb 16, 2018 10:12 am Does your local CU offer better CD rates than any of the online banks? If so, it sounds like you have a great local CU. If not, why are you doing business with them?
mouses
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Re: PSA: Bank of America now charges $12/month for checking

Post by mouses »

ThriftyPhD wrote: Fri Feb 16, 2018 2:27 pm
mouses wrote: Fri Feb 16, 2018 2:13 pm
ThriftyPhD wrote: Fri Feb 16, 2018 10:12 am
mouses wrote: Fri Feb 16, 2018 9:31 am
ThriftyPhD wrote: Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:42 pm But local CUs have terrible rates to. What does your local CU offer to get you choose them?
Most of my local CUs offer rates on CDs that are 4 or 5 times the rates local banks offer. Also a cu has never tried to rip me off or do me in in other ways, as b of a and another big bank did.
Local bank CDs are terrible, so even 5 x terrible might not be a good deal. There are three 'local' CUs I've dealt with. Current, old, and old old, all in different states. I just looked up CD rates there.

2 year
Current 0.45%
Old 0.2%
Old Old 0.5%

5 year
Current 1.3%
Old 1.1%
Old Old 1.25%

A no penalty 11 month CD at Ally with < $5000 deposit gives similar rates as the 5 year CDs at my CUs.

Does your local CU offer better CD rates than any of the online banks? If so, it sounds like you have a great local CU. If not, why are you doing business with them?
I have accounts at four CUs. Their five year CD rates range from 2.0 to 2.25%.
Ally 2.5%
Synchrony Bank 2.5%
Capital One 360 2.65%
ThriftyPhD wrote: Fri Feb 16, 2018 10:12 am Does your local CU offer better CD rates than any of the online banks? If so, it sounds like you have a great local CU. If not, why are you doing business with them?
Sure, but if there's a problem, can you walk to their branches? I think not.
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Re: PSA: Bank of America now charges $12/month for checking

Post by ThriftyPhD »

mouses wrote: Fri Feb 16, 2018 2:53 pm ...
I'll avoid the extended nesting of quotes :)

It obviously comes down to what you value and the options available to you. For someone who wants an empty checking account, BofA is clearly not a good fit. Perhaps their local CU offers 3% interest and no fees on their $0 deposit :)

Personally, I've never had a local bank or CU that has had good rates on savings or CDs, and all of them (including the CUs) have had minimum deposit amounts to avoid fees.

In your case, you value the ability to access a local brick and mortar location, and are willing to pay a 0.5% fee for that service. You clearly have a CU that has decent CD rates, much higher than I have in any location I've ever lived.

My local options are, and have always been:
Big national bank with excellent online system and expansive ATM network with terrible savings/CD rates
Local bank with horrible online system and no ATM network with terrible savings/CD rates
Local CU with horrible online system and no ATM network with terrible savings/CD rates

For the vast majority of people the optimal solution may be a national bank for checking/local access, and an online account for the better savings rates. For those lucky enough to live near a CU with Ally level interest rates, national bank quality websites, and ATM fee reimbursement, consider yourself very lucky :sharebeer
KT785
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Re: PSA: Bank of America now charges $12/month for checking

Post by KT785 »

mouses wrote: Fri Feb 16, 2018 2:53 pm Sure, but if there's a problem, can you walk to their branches? I think not.
What problem would arise that couldn't be resolved via phone/email?

I may be on the younger side of the members of this forum (I'm 30) but I moved to virtual banks several years ago, after having a checking account with Chase but never having gone into a branch. I can't think of many (any) situations that would necessitate my going into a bank (or CU) branch . . . I do however need access to cash occasionally, and don't want to have to hunt down a specific network ATM. My virtual banks allow to me get cash from any ATM, anywhere in the world, for free; I can likewise make cash deposits via ATM and deposit checks via ATM, smartphone, or via (free) UPS next day mail if desired.

The only scenarios where I can think one might need in-branch servicing are if you needed to quickly make a very large cash withdrawal (ATMs have limits, which can be waived by the bank in some cases) or perhaps a medallion signature guarantee.
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Re: PSA: Bank of America now charges $12/month for checking

Post by sunny_socal »

Happy Ending! :beer

I called CS and it was surprisingly simple, not too many menus and wait time was short. They refunded $48 of fees! :D

I guess I'll be keeping $1500 in that checking account hereafter.
student
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Re: PSA: Bank of America now charges $12/month for checking

Post by student »

sunny_socal wrote: Fri Feb 16, 2018 8:26 pm Happy Ending! :beer

I called CS and it was surprisingly simple, not too many menus and wait time was short. They refunded $48 of fees! :D

I guess I'll be keeping $1500 in that checking account hereafter.
Thanks for updating.
mouses
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Re: PSA: Bank of America now charges $12/month for checking

Post by mouses »

Having had Vamguard mess up a transfer for months, I am very fond of places I can walk into and talk to a human.
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arcticpineapplecorp.
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Re: PSA: Bank of America now charges $12/month for checking

Post by arcticpineapplecorp. »

sunny_socal wrote: Fri Feb 16, 2018 8:26 pm Happy Ending! :beer

I called CS and it was surprisingly simple, not too many menus and wait time was short. They refunded $48 of fees! :D

I guess I'll be keeping $1500 in that checking account hereafter.
Ah, you didn't learn the lesson...not to bank with a "giant monster mega-bank" as Clark Howard calls them and instead bank with a credit union. Here's how to find one close to you:

https://www.ncua.gov/analysis/Pages/locate.aspx

These "giant monster mega-banks" engaged in reverse bank robbery (as Clark Howard puts it). That's when then they take your money instead of you taking theirs! Sure they gave it back to you...but you had to ask them for it! And they didn't get to go to jail for taking yoyur money like bank robbers do when they take the bank's money!

These banks nickel and dime their customers, especially the smaller one's. I've seen it a million times. Especially one's who don't check their accounts or read the mouse type. Or the bank changes their policies (you said it was a "new policy") and the customer can't keep up with the change or isn't aware and next you know...there's money missing from the account! After fees keep being taken out, you wind up with a negative balance and have to pay the bank more money to settle/close the account! Only in (bank of) America! This has never happened to me, I have only ever banked with credit unions, but I've seen it happen to many people.

The difference with a credit union, as Clark Howard says, is that with a CU, you are the owner of the bank because credit unions are owned by their members. Not so with giant monster mega-banks. They're owned by the shareholders (like cat's pajamas). The shareholders don't care about you. No man can serve two masters. With BofA (and most giant monster mega-banks) the order of importance is this:
1. shareholders
2. customers and employees (equally hostile towards)

With a credit union, you come first, not second, because there are no outside shareholders.

You get to vote with your feet (and wallet). Get moving!
It's "Stay" the course, not Stray the Course. Buy and Hold works. You should really try it sometime. Get a plan: www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Investment_policy_statement
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Re: PSA: Bank of America now charges $12/month for checking

Post by sunny_socal »

arcticpineapplecorp. wrote: Fri Feb 16, 2018 9:00 pm
sunny_socal wrote: Fri Feb 16, 2018 8:26 pm Happy Ending! :beer

I called CS and it was surprisingly simple, not too many menus and wait time was short. They refunded $48 of fees! :D

I guess I'll be keeping $1500 in that checking account hereafter.
Ah, you didn't learn the lesson...not to bank with a "giant monster mega-bank" as Clark Howard calls them and instead bank with a credit union. Here's how to find one close to you:

https://www.ncua.gov/analysis/Pages/locate.aspx

These "giant monster mega-banks" engaged in reverse bank robbery (as Clark Howard puts it). That's when then they take your money instead of you taking theirs! Sure they gave it back to you...but you had to ask them for it! And they didn't get to go to jail for taking yoyur money like bank robbers do when they take the bank's money!

These banks nickel and dime their customers, especially the smaller one's. I've seen it a million times. Especially one's who don't check their accounts or read the mouse type. Or the bank changes their policies (you said it was a "new policy") and the customer can't keep up with the change or isn't aware and next you know...there's money missing from the account! After fees keep being taken out, you wind up with a negative balance and have to pay the bank more money to settle/close the account! Only in (bank of) America! This has never happened to me, I have only ever banked with credit unions, but I've seen it happen to many people.

The difference with a credit union, as Clark Howard says, is that with a CU, you are the owner of the bank because credit unions are owned by their members. Not so with giant monster mega-banks. They're owned by the shareholders (like cat's pajamas). The shareholders don't care about you. No man can serve two masters. With BofA (and most giant monster mega-banks) the order of importance is this:
1. shareholders
2. customers and employees (equally hostile towards)

With a credit union, you come first, not second, because there are no outside shareholders.

You get to vote with your feet (and wallet). Get moving!
I already have 3 CU accounts! :beer

At least I'm getting a free safe deposit box out of BofA :mrgreen:
lws
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Re: PSA: Bank of America now charges $12/month for checking

Post by lws »

Ally plus credit union for basic banking can not be beaten.
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JMacDonald
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Re: PSA: Bank of America now charges $12/month for checking

Post by JMacDonald »

ThriftyPhD wrote: Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:37 pm
Maverick3320 wrote: Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:10 am What's the upside of using BoA over your local credit union?

(legit question)
Depends on your local credit union. Most credit unions have non existent or terrible online systems. If these are valuable to you, this can be a deal breaker. BofA and other big national banks generally have good websites/apps/systems for things like bill pay, wire transfers, account transfers, mobile deposit, etc. Does your local credit union let you insert a stack of checks to deposit in the ATM, auto scan for amounts, and immediately deposit, or do you need to use a deposit slip and an envelope and a worker might get to it tomorrow? Many of the ATMs my local credit union put out didn't even accept deposits...

If your local credit union doesn't reimburse 3rd party ATM fees (mine doesn't), then using it outside of your hometown is costly. BofA has ATMs in many states. If you work more than a couple miles from where you live, your local credit union isn't very local to one of those locations. If BofA or another big bank has a branch in your hometown and worktown, this is a big bonus. If your spouse works in a different town than you, does the credit union have a branch there as well?

Now, if your local credit union has a killer online system, refunds all 3rd party ATM fees, allows things like mobile deposits, and is local to both home and work, then the credit union is an attractive option.
You need to get a better credit union. I have been with my credit union for 40 years, and it meets all my needs. I rarely have to visit a branch as I do everything online. Here are the ATMs I can use: https://www.co-opfs.org/Shared-Branches-ATMs. As for all those items you mentioned, my financial life is simple. My money is deposited online and withdrawn online. I can transfer money from and to Vanguard online. I never pay any fees.
Best Wishes, | Joe
tryterry
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Re: PSA: Bank of America now charges $12/month for checking

Post by tryterry »

Schwab Bank is what we use. As said, ATM fees are reimbursed and no foreign fees. Easy to transfer into Schwab accounts as well. Hard to deposit cash if you need to do that, though
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