Bonavita 1500 vs 1800/1900? (coffee)

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kayanco
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Bonavita 1500 vs 1800/1900? (coffee)

Post by kayanco » Sun Feb 11, 2018 4:38 pm

Hi,

I wondering if anyone has used both the Bonavita 1500 (5 cup) and 1800/1900 (8 cup)?
If so, can you please comment if the brews are similar.

I'm asking because I see that only the 1800 and 1900 models are SCAA certified:
http://www.scaa.org/?page=cert2

Researching online, I read that the smaller 1500 isn't SCAA certified because it heats the water more than what they consider desirable.
But elsewhere I've read that the only reason is that it's too small, and they only certify above a minimum volume.

So I wonder if anyone has actually used/compared both?

Thanks.

Kababayan
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Re: Bonavita 1500 vs 1800/1900? (coffee)

Post by Kababayan » Sun Feb 11, 2018 5:22 pm

I can't speak for the 1500 but I have the older model of the 8 cup (5 years ago.) It is a great coffee brewer. I have read that the thermos on the newer models aren't as good as the one that came with mine. Unfortunately I dropped mine a year ago and cracked it.

Kelmscott
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Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2012 8:02 am

Re: Bonavita 1500 vs 1800/1900? (coffee)

Post by Kelmscott » Sun Feb 11, 2018 6:11 pm

We have the 1500 and LOVE it! Probably the best coffeemaker we've ever had. Can't compare it to the larger one, though.

One little annoyance: it says 5 cups, but the reservoir only holds enough water for 3.5 large mugs. The carafe doesn't fill to the top after it's all brewed, so we add a pint of water at the end of the brewing cycle to make a "full" pot, which is enough for 4 large mugs.

If you're a coffee fanatic and drink more than that, I'd spring for the larger model.

kayanco
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Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2014 12:20 am

Re: Bonavita 1500 vs 1800/1900? (coffee)

Post by kayanco » Sun Feb 11, 2018 8:02 pm

Kelmscott wrote:
Sun Feb 11, 2018 6:11 pm
We have the 1500 and LOVE it! Probably the best coffeemaker we've ever had. Can't compare it to the larger one, though.

One little annoyance: it says 5 cups, but the reservoir only holds enough water for 3.5 large mugs. The carafe doesn't fill to the top after it's all brewed, so we add a pint of water at the end of the brewing cycle to make a "full" pot, which is enough for 4 large mugs.

If you're a coffee fanatic and drink more than that, I'd spring for the larger model.
Just now I cycled water through the Bonavita 1500 and measured with two different thermometers, 179 degrees F. Repeated, still 179 F.
That's much lower than 195°-205°F stated on the website and recommend by SCAA.

Am I missing something? I hope that was the right way how I measured it?

bikechuck
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Re: Bonavita 1500 vs 1800/1900? (coffee)

Post by bikechuck » Sun Feb 11, 2018 9:00 pm

My preferred drip coffee maker is the Technivorm Moca Master 10 cup with thermal carafe. They are more expensive than the Bonavitas, generally $319 ish but I was able to get one for $220 ish through Massdrop.

European cup sizes are small at 4 ounces so we are getting 4-5 mugs for a 10 cup brew. The temperature and duration of the brewtime seem perfect on this machine and we are having excellent results. We have a Baratza Virtuoso Grinder and we weigh our beans and grind only what is needed each time we brew which is pretty much once a day.

Before buying this equipment we were using an inexpensive Mr. Coffee machine and I kept wondering if I was nuts to spend that much money on a coffee maker. However both my wife and I love the coffee this makes and feel happy with our purchase. It is one of our very few splurges and everyone needs a few.

Kelmscott
Posts: 40
Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2012 8:02 am

Re: Bonavita 1500 vs 1800/1900? (coffee)

Post by Kelmscott » Mon Feb 12, 2018 8:34 am

Kayanco -- I don't know why the discrepancy in temperature. I've never checked ~ the coffee is always piping hot -- so much, in fact, that we can't sip it for a while after it's brewed. It stays hot for hours in the carafe.

katzmandu
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Re: Bonavita 1500 vs 1800/1900? (coffee)

Post by katzmandu » Mon Feb 12, 2018 8:42 am

bikechuck wrote:
Sun Feb 11, 2018 9:00 pm
My preferred drip coffee maker is the Technivorm Moca Master 10 cup with thermal carafe. They are more expensive than the Bonavitas, generally $319 ish but I was able to get one for $220 ish through Massdrop.

European cup sizes are small at 4 ounces so we are getting 4-5 mugs for a 10 cup brew. The temperature and duration of the brewtime seem perfect on this machine and we are having excellent results. We have a Baratza Virtuoso Grinder and we weigh our beans and grind only what is needed each time we brew which is pretty much once a day.

Before buying this equipment we were using an inexpensive Mr. Coffee machine and I kept wondering if I was nuts to spend that much money on a coffee maker. However both my wife and I love the coffee this makes and feel happy with our purchase. It is one of our very few splurges and everyone needs a few.
Try NewEgg refurb. I picked one up for $200 but if I had been patient, one could have been had for $175. Yes its a refurb, but from my understanding, all the returns go back to the parent co. where they are dissembled and reassembled by hand and tested so confidence its as good as new. This is the best so why settle for less?

Deltaflaze
Posts: 11
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Re: Bonavita 1500 vs 1800/1900? (coffee)

Post by Deltaflaze » Mon Feb 12, 2018 8:48 am

Agree with the Moccamaster (KB 10 cup) if you're looking for a long-lasting coffee maker. Bonavita would be my 2nd choice if I were going economical. Not sure between the versions though. I've read good things about the 1900.

kayanco
Posts: 710
Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2014 12:20 am

Re: Bonavita 1500 vs 1800/1900? (coffee)

Post by kayanco » Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:02 am

bikechuck wrote:
Sun Feb 11, 2018 9:00 pm
My preferred drip coffee maker is the Technivorm Moca Master 10 cup with thermal carafe. They are more expensive than the Bonavitas, generally $319 ish but I was able to get one for $220 ish through Massdrop.

European cup sizes are small at 4 ounces so we are getting 4-5 mugs for a 10 cup brew. The temperature and duration of the brewtime seem perfect on this machine and we are having excellent results. We have a Baratza Virtuoso Grinder and we weigh our beans and grind only what is needed each time we brew which is pretty much once a day.

Before buying this equipment we were using an inexpensive Mr. Coffee machine and I kept wondering if I was nuts to spend that much money on a coffee maker. However both my wife and I love the coffee this makes and feel happy with our purchase. It is one of our very few splurges and everyone needs a few.
katzmandu wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 8:42 am
bikechuck wrote:
Sun Feb 11, 2018 9:00 pm
My preferred drip coffee maker is the Technivorm Moca Master 10 cup with thermal carafe. They are more expensive than the Bonavitas, generally $319 ish but I was able to get one for $220 ish through Massdrop.

European cup sizes are small at 4 ounces so we are getting 4-5 mugs for a 10 cup brew. The temperature and duration of the brewtime seem perfect on this machine and we are having excellent results. We have a Baratza Virtuoso Grinder and we weigh our beans and grind only what is needed each time we brew which is pretty much once a day.

Before buying this equipment we were using an inexpensive Mr. Coffee machine and I kept wondering if I was nuts to spend that much money on a coffee maker. However both my wife and I love the coffee this makes and feel happy with our purchase. It is one of our very few splurges and everyone needs a few.
Try NewEgg refurb. I picked one up for $200 but if I had been patient, one could have been had for $175. Yes its a refurb, but from my understanding, all the returns go back to the parent co. where they are dissembled and reassembled by hand and tested so confidence its as good as new. This is the best so why settle for less?
Deltaflaze wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 8:48 am
Agree with the Moccamaster (KB 10 cup) if you're looking for a long-lasting coffee maker. Bonavita would be my 2nd choice if I were going economical. Not sure between the versions though. I've read good things about the 1900.

Thanks guys.

Does it let you brew a single 8 oz cup?
I mean if you only pour in around 9 oz of water, would you get a good brew at the right temp?

Thanks.

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lthenderson
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Re: Bonavita 1500 vs 1800/1900? (coffee)

Post by lthenderson » Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:39 am

We bought the Bonavita BV1800TH based off of a testing review by America's Test Kitchen and have been extremely pleased with the quality of coffee it makes. The only two complaints I have are one, like someone above mentioned, the marked scale on the reservoir are for small 6 oz coffee cups and not for American sized coffee mugs. So a full tank of 8 cups is actually only like 4.5 mugs worth. M second trivial complaint is the spout design on the urn. If you are a timid pourer, it dribbles a lot. If you are confident, it pours easily without dribbles. I got used to it and don't have any problems but am always wiping up coffee dribbles whenever my MIL pours a cup of coffee.

bikechuck
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Re: Bonavita 1500 vs 1800/1900? (coffee)

Post by bikechuck » Mon Feb 12, 2018 4:12 pm

kayanco wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:02 am
bikechuck wrote:
Sun Feb 11, 2018 9:00 pm
My preferred drip coffee maker is the Technivorm Moca Master 10 cup with thermal carafe. They are more expensive than the Bonavitas, generally $319 ish but I was able to get one for $220 ish through Massdrop.

European cup sizes are small at 4 ounces so we are getting 4-5 mugs for a 10 cup brew. The temperature and duration of the brewtime seem perfect on this machine and we are having excellent results. We have a Baratza Virtuoso Grinder and we weigh our beans and grind only what is needed each time we brew which is pretty much once a day.

Before buying this equipment we were using an inexpensive Mr. Coffee machine and I kept wondering if I was nuts to spend that much money on a coffee maker. However both my wife and I love the coffee this makes and feel happy with our purchase. It is one of our very few splurges and everyone needs a few.
katzmandu wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 8:42 am
bikechuck wrote:
Sun Feb 11, 2018 9:00 pm
My preferred drip coffee maker is the Technivorm Moca Master 10 cup with thermal carafe. They are more expensive than the Bonavitas, generally $319 ish but I was able to get one for $220 ish through Massdrop.

European cup sizes are small at 4 ounces so we are getting 4-5 mugs for a 10 cup brew. The temperature and duration of the brewtime seem perfect on this machine and we are having excellent results. We have a Baratza Virtuoso Grinder and we weigh our beans and grind only what is needed each time we brew which is pretty much once a day.

Before buying this equipment we were using an inexpensive Mr. Coffee machine and I kept wondering if I was nuts to spend that much money on a coffee maker. However both my wife and I love the coffee this makes and feel happy with our purchase. It is one of our very few splurges and everyone needs a few.
Try NewEgg refurb. I picked one up for $200 but if I had been patient, one could have been had for $175. Yes its a refurb, but from my understanding, all the returns go back to the parent co. where they are dissembled and reassembled by hand and tested so confidence its as good as new. This is the best so why settle for less?
Deltaflaze wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 8:48 am
Agree with the Moccamaster (KB 10 cup) if you're looking for a long-lasting coffee maker. Bonavita would be my 2nd choice if I were going economical. Not sure between the versions though. I've read good things about the 1900.

Thanks guys.

Does it let you brew a single 8 oz cup?
I mean if you only pour in around 9 oz of water, would you get a good brew at the right temp?

Thanks.
I have never tried making an 8 OZ coup (which would be two 4 oz cups as Moca Master calibrates). I have made 4 cups or 16 ozs and that worked out well. If I was frequently brewing 8 ounces I would probably not buy the Moca Master 10 cup machine. We have a Chemex pour over which works well if we are making smaller quantities. We have great results with our Chemex and they are not very expensive. They are a bit labor intensive though.

kayanco
Posts: 710
Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2014 12:20 am

Re: Bonavita 1500 vs 1800/1900? (coffee)

Post by kayanco » Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:13 pm

Anyone compare the Bonavita 1800 with 1900 in terms of the different type of filter baskets? The 1800 (and 1500) takes cone filters, while with the 1900 they changed it to flat bottom filter. Does this make a difference?
(I notice that most manual pour-overs take a cone filter, and these Bonavita machines seem like automated pour-over machines).

Thanks.

nashirak
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Location: Little Rock, AR

Re: Bonavita 1500 vs 1800/1900? (coffee)

Post by nashirak » Wed Feb 14, 2018 6:29 pm

We have the Bonavita 1900TS and love it. It’s simple and it brews a perfect cup. As others have mentioned, the number of cups is based on the smaller, stronger, European style of coffee. So adjust your coffee/water ratio accordingly. Our 8-cup model is perfect for my wife and I to have two good full mugs each. The thermal carafe keeps it hit for hours. The “experts” say that the flat bottom basket and shower-head water dispenser does a better job of evenly brewing the grinds compared to the cone filters. I’m not enough of a coffee snob to know for sure. But I love ours.

kayanco
Posts: 710
Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2014 12:20 am

Re: Bonavita 1500 vs 1800/1900? (coffee)

Post by kayanco » Wed Feb 14, 2018 7:04 pm

nashirak wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2018 6:29 pm
We have the Bonavita 1900TS and love it. It’s simple and it brews a perfect cup. As others have mentioned, the number of cups is based on the smaller, stronger, European style of coffee. So adjust your coffee/water ratio accordingly. Our 8-cup model is perfect for my wife and I to have two good full mugs each. The thermal carafe keeps it hit for hours. The “experts” say that the flat bottom basket and shower-head water dispenser does a better job of evenly brewing the grinds compared to the cone filters. I’m not enough of a coffee snob to know for sure. But I love ours.
Thank you for sharing.

I also got the 1900 today, so I now have both 1500 (cone filter) and 1900 (flat-bottom)

I tried comparing the temp difference between the two, but I couldn't tell definitely if there was a meaningful difference.
Then I had a better idea:
Rather than measure temperate or research between cone vs flat-bottom, why don't I brew a cup in both and see which tastes better (to me)?

I measured equal amount of coffee for both using a scoop, later added equal amounts of cream.

Interestingly the 1500 tasted better and stronger to me. It also looked darker than the 1900. The 1900 also tasted quite good btw.
(My guess is that this is because of the cone filter. I think it concentrates the grounds at the bottom and the water collects over it, remaining in contact longer. Whereas with the flat bottom, the coffee is more spread out, and water remains in contact shorter. Just a wild guess).

I'll repeat this tomorrow. And also out of curiosity, I'll swap out the filter baskets between the 1500 and 1900 to find out if it's really the filter style that makes a difference.

smackboy1
Posts: 1000
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2007 9:41 pm

Re: Bonavita 1500 vs 1800/1900? (coffee)

Post by smackboy1 » Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:10 pm

kayanco wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2018 7:04 pm
I also got the 1900 today, so I now have both 1500 (cone filter) and 1900 (flat-bottom)

I tried comparing the temp difference between the two, but I couldn't tell definitely if there was a meaningful difference.
Then I had a better idea:
Rather than measure temperate or research between cone vs flat-bottom, why don't I brew a cup in both and see which tastes better (to me)?

I measured equal amount of coffee for both using a scoop, later added equal amounts of cream.

Interestingly the 1500 tasted better and stronger to me. It also looked darker than the 1900. The 1900 also tasted quite good btw.
(My guess is that this is because of the cone filter. I think it concentrates the grounds at the bottom and the water collects over it, remaining in contact longer. Whereas with the flat bottom, the coffee is more spread out, and water remains in contact shorter. Just a wild guess).

I'll repeat this tomorrow. And also out of curiosity, I'll swap out the filter baskets between the 1500 and 1900 to find out if it's really the filter style that makes a difference.
If the goal is control over all the brewing parameters I would say pour over is better suited to that than an automatic drip machine. Manual pour over is more laborious but there's much more granular control over the water temperature and flow. Moreover the equipment cost is lower.

I've never used a Bonavita but I would guess that both could be dialed in to produce identical cups of coffee. The difference in machines would be the minimum and maximum cup output.

Good extraction is a function of water wetting and flowing evenly through the entire coffee bed. Cone and flat bottom filters should be the same if they are both dosed with enough coffee. However for small amounts of coffee if the bed is thin and flat like a pizza it's difficult for the shower head to achieve even wetting and flow. This will result in pockets of under and over extraction i.e. inconsistent crappy tasting coffee. For small amounts of coffee a cone might be better at keeping the bed in a compact shape allowing for more even flow. I would venture that it will be difficult to brew just 1-2 cups using a flat bottom filter.

If changing strength, water temperature is a non-factor. Strength can be increased by: dosing with more coffee; or by increasing the contact time between water and coffee (finer grind); or by using less water.

Water temperature can affect the flavor. Cooler tends to emphasize acid/sour under extracted flavors. Hotter tends to bring out bitter/ashy over extracted flavors. Fruity and caramel flavors are in the middle. But because most coffee machines do not offer adjustable water temperature, grind size is used to adjust for balanced flavor. Which is why coffee people mostly agree that the grinder is the most important piece of equipment.
Disclaimer: nothing written here should be taken as legal advice, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

kayanco
Posts: 710
Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2014 12:20 am

Re: Bonavita 1500 vs 1800/1900? (coffee)

Post by kayanco » Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:14 pm

smackboy1 wrote:
Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:10 pm
kayanco wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2018 7:04 pm
I also got the 1900 today, so I now have both 1500 (cone filter) and 1900 (flat-bottom)

I tried comparing the temp difference between the two, but I couldn't tell definitely if there was a meaningful difference.
Then I had a better idea:
Rather than measure temperate or research between cone vs flat-bottom, why don't I brew a cup in both and see which tastes better (to me)?

I measured equal amount of coffee for both using a scoop, later added equal amounts of cream.

Interestingly the 1500 tasted better and stronger to me. It also looked darker than the 1900. The 1900 also tasted quite good btw.
(My guess is that this is because of the cone filter. I think it concentrates the grounds at the bottom and the water collects over it, remaining in contact longer. Whereas with the flat bottom, the coffee is more spread out, and water remains in contact shorter. Just a wild guess).

I'll repeat this tomorrow. And also out of curiosity, I'll swap out the filter baskets between the 1500 and 1900 to find out if it's really the filter style that makes a difference.
If the goal is control over all the brewing parameters I would say pour over is better suited to that than an automatic drip machine. Manual pour over is more laborious but there's much more granular control over the water temperature and flow. Moreover the equipment cost is lower.

I've never used a Bonavita but I would guess that both could be dialed in to produce identical cups of coffee. The difference in machines would be the minimum and maximum cup output.

Good extraction is a function of water wetting and flowing evenly through the entire coffee bed. Cone and flat bottom filters should be the same if they are both dosed with enough coffee. However for small amounts of coffee if the bed is thin and flat like a pizza it's difficult for the shower head to achieve even wetting and flow. This will result in pockets of under and over extraction i.e. inconsistent crappy tasting coffee. For small amounts of coffee a cone might be better at keeping the bed in a compact shape allowing for more even flow. I would venture that it will be difficult to brew just 1-2 cups using a flat bottom filter.

If changing strength, water temperature is a non-factor. Strength can be increased by: dosing with more coffee; or by increasing the contact time between water and coffee (finer grind); or by using less water.

Water temperature can affect the flavor. Cooler tends to emphasize acid/sour under extracted flavors. Hotter tends to bring out bitter/ashy over extracted flavors. Fruity and caramel flavors are in the middle. But because most coffee machines do not offer adjustable water temperature, grind size is used to adjust for balanced flavor. Which is why coffee people mostly agree that the grinder is the most important piece of equipment.
I found this post very helpful and informative. Thanks.

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jainn
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Re: Bonavita 1500 vs 1800/1900? (coffee)

Post by jainn » Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:45 pm

We have the predecessor to this model, same specs though. It's about 3 years old and still operating daily without issue.

Amazon:
https://www.amazon.com/Bonavita-BV1900T ... 00O9FO1HK/
Manufacturer:
http://bonavitaworld.com/products/bonavita

It is SCA certified, which I never heard of before buying the Bonavita.
http://www.scanews.coffee/2017/04/23/sc ... o-quality/

Requirements of quality include:

Golden Cup Ratio: The brewer basket must allow for 55 grams of coffee per one liter of water.
Brewing time and temperature: Temperature must reach 197.6 F within one minute and never exceed 204.8 F. Water contact time with coffee: between 4-8 minutes.

Proper strength and extraction: The brewer must make a beverage with the strength (solubles concentration) of between 1.15% and 1.35% resulting from an extraction (solubles yield) of between 18.0% and 22.0%.

Uniformity of performance and extraction: to ensure consistency, multiple brewers are subjected to numerous brew cycle tests before passing the critical component of certification.

Carafe Temperature: The container that receives the coffee must contain a coffee temperature of no less than 176 F and no more than 185 F. Temperature must be maintained during the first 30 minutes of holding time.

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