Credit Card Compromised... again.

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sixtyforty
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Credit Card Compromised... again.

Post by sixtyforty » Thu Jan 25, 2018 11:02 am

Got a call from our credit card company yesterday to report fraudulent activity on our CC. Someone in our town charged $1 on a gas pump, then proceeded to charge hundreds of dollars at two different grocery stores. This seems to happen to us about once every 3 years. Our CC company is good about spotting it (as are we), but really can't tell us much as to how it happens, or what we could do differently. Just curious what other forum members experiences are with this..
"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication" - Leonardo Da Vinci

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Pajamas
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Re: Credit Card Compromised... again.

Post by Pajamas » Thu Jan 25, 2018 11:14 am

Repeated credit card fraud seems to be fairly common judging from the number of posts here and on other websites about it.

https://www.google.com/search?sitesearc ... card+fraud

One thing you might be able to do with your credit card issuer is set email or text alerts on their website. For instance, I get an email if there is a charge at any gas station as that is a frequent method thieves use to check to see if a card is valid.

This could be happening through no fault of your own or even through the fault of an employee at a business where you use your credit card. Apparently some people have had credit card information stolen before they even received the credit card. There have been skimmers not only on ATMs and gas pumps but also on manned registers.

However, if it happened to me repeatedly, I would think about the places I use the card, especially anywhere like a restaurant or small retailer where someone handled my card or the information on it out of my sight. Seems like the credit card issuers and companies could detect repeated fraud originating at a single business, though. At some point I would also think about changing to another credit card issuer.

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5th_Dimension
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Re: Credit Card Compromised... again.

Post by 5th_Dimension » Thu Jan 25, 2018 11:19 am

We had two different cards compromised within a couple of weeks of each other. It caused us to change our behavior as much as we can.

1. We use Apple Pay as much as possible. We just found a gas station that takes Apple Pay at the pump.
2. Frequent businesses that have chip readers, and avoid those that swipe the card. Restaurants and gas stations seem to be the big laggards here.
3. Avoid any transactions at a machine outside. We rent movies from Redbox, and if we can't fine a movie at an indoor kiosk, we don't rent it. If we get gas at a station without Apple Pay/chip reader, we go inside to pay.
4. Pay cash more often than before.

Don't know if these will help, but hopefully they reduce the risk.
"My idea of rich is ordering the most expensive thing at Denny's"

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munemaker
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Re: Credit Card Compromised... again.

Post by munemaker » Thu Jan 25, 2018 11:22 am

5th_Dimension wrote:
Thu Jan 25, 2018 11:19 am
We had two different cards compromised within a couple of weeks of each other. It caused us to change our behavior as much as we can.

1. We use Apple Pay as much as possible. We just found a gas station that takes Apple Pay at the pump.
2. Frequent businesses that have chip readers, and avoid those that swipe the card. Restaurants and gas stations seem to be the big laggards here.
3. Avoid any transactions at a machine outside. We rent movies from Redbox, and if we can't fine a movie at an indoor kiosk, we don't rent it. If we get gas at a station without Apple Pay/chip reader, we go inside to pay.
4. Pay cash more often than before.

Don't know if these will help, but hopefully they reduce the risk.
You are working on the assumption that the compromises were due to something on your end. I have a Capital One card that was never activated and locked in a drawer, and it had a fraudulent charge on it. I am just saying...the problem may not be on your end.

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bligh
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Re: Credit Card Compromised... again.

Post by bligh » Thu Jan 25, 2018 11:32 am

This has happened to me quite often. Be on the lookout for skimmers but that is not going to be enough. Quite often the criminals harvest credit card details from the networks and servers that various establishments use to transmit the credit card information. Establishments like Target and Chipotle have been recent victims of this that I am aware of. Even a company that is very diligent with its security could slip up every now and then. The criminals only need to get lucky just once, while the establishments need to win every single time.

Pajamas advice is excellent. Set up alerts, and scan your statements meticulously. I haven't tried this myself, but (if it doesn't creep you out), many banks allow you to install Apps on your phone that can allow them to track your geographic location. The idea being that if your Credit card is used in a location that is hugely different from your last known location, the bank can instantly mark it as fraudulent activity.

Wherever possible, I try to use Apple Pay (Samsung and Google have equivalent technologies). Using Apply Pay provides a huge improvement in security since your credit card information is never transmitted (in fact it isn't even stored on your phone). All you are providing is a one time token that is issued for that one payment. There is nothing to steal even if the establishment's systems are infested with malware and skimmers.

You just have to get over the automatic muscle memory of pulling out your card and instead develop the muscle memory to check to see if you can use your Apple Watch or iPhone first. Once I got over the initial embarrassment of it, I've started asking if they accept Apple Pay at more and more places. I'd say a good 50% to 60% or so of establishments in my area now accept it. Once you get used to Apple Pay you really start to appreciate the convenience. Unfortunately, the only place I've seen others using Apple Pay is at Whole foods.

obgraham
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Re: Credit Card Compromised... again.

Post by obgraham » Thu Jan 25, 2018 12:14 pm

This fraud stuff is the price we all pay for the convenience of using the cards. It will never go away. It's cost is rolled into the interest rates we pay, and the transactions fees charged to the business.

I just use my card, and rely on the card company to pick up the fraudulent stuff. Over many years now they have never failed me -- when they say it was fraudulent it was, and I've never had to identify a fraudulent transaction myself.

abner kravitz
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Re: Credit Card Compromised... again.

Post by abner kravitz » Thu Jan 25, 2018 1:04 pm

Pajamas wrote:
Thu Jan 25, 2018 11:14 am
Repeated credit card fraud seems to be fairly common judging from the number of posts here and on other websites about it.

https://www.google.com/search?sitesearc ... card+fraud

One thing you might be able to do with your credit card issuer is set email or text alerts on their website. For instance, I get an email if there is a charge at any gas station as that is a frequent method thieves use to check to see if a card is valid.

This could be happening through no fault of your own or even through the fault of an employee at a business where you use your credit card. Apparently some people have had credit card information stolen before they even received the credit card. There have been skimmers not only on ATMs and gas pumps but also on manned registers.

However, if it happened to me repeatedly, I would think about the places I use the card, especially anywhere like a restaurant or small retailer where someone handled my card or the information on it out of my sight. Seems like the credit card issuers and companies could detect repeated fraud originating at a single business, though. At some point I would also think about changing to another credit card issuer.
I get notifications for transactions, but for some reason I don't get them for gas purchases. The gas charges generally take longer to hit my account also. I don't know if this is a function of the card I use (Fidelity Visa) or if this is common.

RetiredAL
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Re: Credit Card Compromised... again.

Post by RetiredAL » Thu Jan 25, 2018 3:19 pm

Based on several recent posts, it seems to me that there is a re-occurring erroneous thought many have that “you” are, or will be, responsible for CC Fraud. That’s just not true.

1. With a CC, initially it’s not your money at risk, and will not likely become so later.
2. You are NOT RESPONSIBLE if you timely report it. Most give you 60 days to discover.
3. If you do discover something that is fraud, you might be responsible if you don’t reasonable notify them, IE waiting 30 days after discovery. So be prompt when you do discover.
4. You don’t need to often, as in daily, check for fraud. The Card people will likely to see significant fraud before you. Before instant banking, the discovery point was likely the monthly statement.
5. Fraud comes in from many angles, many of which you have zero control over, like reports of replacement cards being compromised before someone even received them.
6. For the most part, your inconvenience will be awaiting replacement cards and shifting your auto-pay to a CC to the new card number.
7. Debit Cards have more risk, as the money is removed from your account before you can challenge the transaction. This alone is a good reason to not use a Debit, or ATM card in place of a CC.
8. The CC people deal with fraud all the time and will quickly resolve it with minimum of fuss to you.
9. Lastly, be careful of doing any knee-jerk action based on other people’s posted opinion, as often they are overly paranoid or plain erroneous. Refer to #1 and #2 above.

Diligence is fine, just don’t go overboard with it, and don’t let it consume you. Any CC that offers to notify you instantly of all charges is doing so to protect themselves, not to protect you. You already have protections.

nasrullah
Posts: 149
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2017 11:40 am

Re: Credit Card Compromised... again.

Post by nasrullah » Thu Jan 25, 2018 3:27 pm

sixtyforty wrote:
Thu Jan 25, 2018 11:02 am
Got a call from our credit card company yesterday to report fraudulent activity on our CC. Someone in our town charged $1 on a gas pump, then proceeded to charge hundreds of dollars at two different grocery stores. This seems to happen to us about once every 3 years. Our CC company is good about spotting it (as are we), but really can't tell us much as to how it happens, or what we could do differently. Just curious what other forum members experiences are with this..
This is exactly the reason why you use a Credit and *NEVER* a Debit Card. While you are not responsible for fraudlent charges with either a Credit or Debit card with the Debit card you'll be out the money in your bank account until the process completes, vs. with the Credit card the charges immediately go pending and you are not responsible to pay them.

A lot of people have mentioned using Apple Pay. It's a great suggestion and will decrease your risk profile for cloning. As an added benefit you'll get real time alerts when your card is charged displayed on your phone. I've caught fraud in real time this way before the perp was able to ramp up the shopping.

Don't worry about this too much, at some point there is little you can do. It's entirely plausible that a the fraud started with someone testing numbers in a vulnerable site and you were just one of the lucky ones that worked. Just make sure you read your statements and pay attention to what is going on with your accounts.
"We have a lot to do, and very little time, so we must work slowly." Liviu Ciulei | | Thanks vineviz (https://www.bogleheads.org/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=134698) for the quote.

Bmac
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Re: Credit Card Compromised... again.

Post by Bmac » Thu Jan 25, 2018 3:30 pm

Yeah, about every 3 years sounds about right. Only real inconvenience is updating any recurring automatic monthly bills.

Fclevz
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Re: Credit Card Compromised... again.

Post by Fclevz » Thu Jan 25, 2018 3:31 pm

sixtyforty wrote:
Thu Jan 25, 2018 11:02 am
...then proceeded to charge hundreds of dollars at two different grocery stores.
I thought that's what the chips were supposed to prevent. Or are those two grocery stores just dragging their feet with regard to chip readers?

tev9876
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Re: Credit Card Compromised... again.

Post by tev9876 » Thu Jan 25, 2018 3:43 pm

I got a call from Chase a few months ago that my Intercontinental Hotels card had suspicious purchases - $50, $50 and $51.25 at a Walmart 75 miles away. They let the first two go through but shut it down on the third. I only use that card if I stay at a IHG hotel. Sure enough in late 2016 there was a major malware breach on over 1000 hotel front desk systems and I had stayed at one of the affected Holiday Inns. You would think Chase would have proactively replaced the card since they knew of the breach, knew my card was used at an affected hotel, and knew it was one of the last to not be upgraded to a chip card. The card was safely tucked away in my files so it was not stolen.

In all it probably cost me five minutes of my life. They sent me a new chip card and all is fine. One oddity was that a week after I got the new card I received another card with the old number. I think it was about to expire anyway and that one was probably already being processed, so I just fed it to the shredder.

I don't care about my credit cards as there is zero liability and I am in all of my 30 or so accounts (churner) at least monthly to see if anything odd is going on. The Debit card for my primary Capital One account is on lock down. They let you electronically lock it, so I do. I also never carry it and it stays locked up at home. I have a Fidelity cash management account that never has more than a few hundred dollars in it for my rare cash needs. Funds get pushed to it from Cap One and there is no kind of overdraft that could pull from anywhere else, so most they get is $300 or so. 99% of my spending is on credit cards for convenience, security and (mainly) points.

btenny
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Re: Credit Card Compromised... again.

Post by btenny » Thu Jan 25, 2018 3:44 pm

My wife has been hit about every 1-2 years in the past and has to replace various CCs. Mostly it was a card she had used on the internet. But once she lost her purse in a parking lot. So now she uses a specific CC to buy stuff on the internet. Then she has a different CC for general purchases around town. And she never carries all of her CCs at once. She keeps most of them at home in a special place. She also has copies of my Costco CC and a few others. But now she never uses the same CC as me. This system has improved our stolen CC situation. We have not been hacked in 1.5 years. Knock on wood.

Good Luck.

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Doom&Gloom
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Re: Credit Card Compromised... again.

Post by Doom&Gloom » Thu Jan 25, 2018 3:55 pm

RetiredAL wrote:
Thu Jan 25, 2018 3:19 pm
Based on several recent posts, it seems to me that there is a re-occurring erroneous thought many have that “you” are, or will be, responsible for CC Fraud. That’s just not true.

1. With a CC, initially it’s not your money at risk, and will not likely become so later.
2. You are NOT RESPONSIBLE if you timely report it. Most give you 60 days to discover.
3. If you do discover something that is fraud, you might be responsible if you don’t reasonable notify them, IE waiting 30 days after discovery. So be prompt when you do discover.
4. You don’t need to often, as in daily, check for fraud. The Card people will likely to see significant fraud before you. Before instant banking, the discovery point was likely the monthly statement.
5. Fraud comes in from many angles, many of which you have zero control over, like reports of replacement cards being compromised before someone even received them.
6. For the most part, your inconvenience will be awaiting replacement cards and shifting your auto-pay to a CC to the new card number.
7. Debit Cards have more risk, as the money is removed from your account before you can challenge the transaction. This alone is a good reason to not use a Debit, or ATM card in place of a CC.
8. The CC people deal with fraud all the time and will quickly resolve it with minimum of fuss to you.
9. Lastly, be careful of doing any knee-jerk action based on other people’s posted opinion, as often they are overly paranoid or plain erroneous. Refer to #1 and #2 above.

Diligence is fine, just don’t go overboard with it, and don’t let it consume you. Any CC that offers to notify you instantly of all charges is doing so to protect themselves, not to protect you. You already have protections.
Nice post. It would be worth "stickying" here.

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lthenderson
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Re: Credit Card Compromised... again.

Post by lthenderson » Thu Jan 25, 2018 4:36 pm

Fclevz wrote:
Thu Jan 25, 2018 3:31 pm
sixtyforty wrote:
Thu Jan 25, 2018 11:02 am
...then proceeded to charge hundreds of dollars at two different grocery stores.
I thought that's what the chips were supposed to prevent. Or are those two grocery stores just dragging their feet with regard to chip readers?
Chip and PIN cards like what they use in Europe prevent this. Chip and signature cards (with the signature written on the back of the card) like what we use in the U.S. are no better than the cards without chips other than being a little harder to duplicate.

To the OP, after having my cards compromised several times, I changed to using cash at small mom and pop places where they disappear with my card for minutes at a time. I haven't had my card hacked since. With cellphones that have cameras everywhere, it is just too easy to take a picture for later use. I also always check for skimmers by giving a tug on the plastic piece of any outside credit card machine. I've found two thus far, one on a fuel pump facing away from the store and one at a car wash. They both were stuck on with double sided tape and came off quite easily.

JBTX
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Re: Credit Card Compromised... again.

Post by JBTX » Thu Jan 25, 2018 5:01 pm

I've had several compromised over past few years.

Marylander1
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Re: Credit Card Compromised... again.

Post by Marylander1 » Thu Jan 25, 2018 5:24 pm

My credit cards are configured to send a text message with every charge. The majority of the time I get a text, I've just swiped my card or clicked "Order" on a website; it happens within seconds. Occasionally I get notified that a recurring charge has gone through, or a charge is applied when an order is shipped. Since I've been doing this, only once have I had a fraudulent charge. I reported it immediately, received a replacement card 2 days later, and everything was resolved ASAP.

This isn't necessary to control fraud liability; you can simply report any bogus transactions when the statement arrives. But I've discovered I like knowing about every transaction, and confirm the amount is correct as soon as it happens. A restaurant once got my charge wrong by a factor of 10, and they fixed it right then.

(I've never used a debit card; they've always been much riskier.)

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