Hydronic fireplace home heating

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chrismj
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Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2017 1:12 pm

Hydronic fireplace home heating

Post by chrismj »

We are buying a house with hydronic heating, I.e. radiator heating. It also has a wood burning fireplace. I'm thinking of buying a pellet or wood burning insert that will heat water within the existing boiler-radiator system. Here's an (expensive) example:

http://www.mcz.it/en/products/pellet-fi ... /vivo-80p/

I've heard these can cut heating bills in half or more, so no small peanuts for Wisconsin winters.

Anyone have any experience with these? Are they more efficient than what's already installed in the house (a new-ish gas-fired boiler)?

It doesn't have to be a fireplace insert. I can also install it in the basement as a stand alone unit.
desiderium
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Re: Hydronic fireplace home heating

Post by desiderium »

Efficiency is high for both your pellet stove example and very high for modern natural gas boilers (energy captured/energy burned). The issue is fuel cost per unit of energy. There are several calculators online. Given how inexpensive natural gas is, my guess is that there are not great savings to be had. Next, divide the cost of the new system by the annual savings. Don't forget that integrating these systems will have its own cost and will have a lifespan, so add some depreciation. You may find that it will take many years to realize a benefit of the new system.

If you want to save money on winter energy costs, the best investment may be upgrading the efficiency of your home. Convection (air leakage) is typically the biggest source of loss. Consider an energy audit and invest in air sealing and other relatively simple measures first.
motorcyclesarecool
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Re: Hydronic fireplace home heating

Post by motorcyclesarecool »

Wood pellet stoves have lots of moving parts and blower fans. They do ok at heat generation but they’re kind of loud.
Wood stoves (or inserts) are beautiful, quiet, and can really put out the heat, but dealing with the logs means tracking snow and filth through your house to the stove. Also, most cost comparisons assume you’re burning free wood. Said wood has to be felled, bucked, split, and allowed to season for a year. Wood has to be stored properly or it will rot and/or become a critter habitat. It’s really hard to beat the romance and radiance of a good wood stove. Investigate a Hearthstone brand soapstone stove, with the air based recombustion (most modern wood stoves have to have catalytic converters in them and can be a major pain to run)

Thinking outside the box, have you considered going with an anthracite coal stove? Coal prices are depressed, anthracite is much easier and cleaner to handle indoors than wood, and with the right stove you only need to tend it once or twice a day. Coal can tolerate all sorts of storage scenarios, including in a pile in the back yard. You get the radiance and pretty flames of wood, but the cleanliness and convenience of pellets. Consider Hitzer or Chubby stoves. Or look for an old timey “base heater.”
Understand that choosing an HDHP is very much a "red pill" approach. Most would rather pay higher premiums for a $20 copay per visit. They will think you weird for choosing an HSA.
TT
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Re: Hydronic fireplace home heating

Post by TT »

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just frank
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Re: Hydronic fireplace home heating

Post by just frank »

I suspect that in terms of cost savings and the value of your time, an energy audit/inspection would net you some better options.

Woods great, and a lot of fun on a cold day, but it gets to be a drag as a full time occupation.

When I bought my current place, I looked it over, attic insulation, storm windows and doors, weather stripping, etc, and thought it was good. As it turns out it had a TON of totally hidden air leakage paths that were easy/cheap to seal up, and which made the house much more comfortable and cut my heating bill by 50%. And my house is pretty typical construction.

And these fixes do not require me to carry wood all the time.
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lthenderson
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Re: Hydronic fireplace home heating

Post by lthenderson »

chrismj wrote: Sun Jan 14, 2018 7:19 am We are buying a house with hydronic heating, I.e. radiator heating. It also has a wood burning fireplace. I'm thinking of buying a pellet or wood burning insert that will heat water within the existing boiler-radiator system. Here's an (expensive) example:

It doesn't have to be a fireplace insert. I can also install it in the basement as a stand alone unit.
I can't imagine how someone could turn an insert into heating water for an existing boiler without being super complex and it probably would be no where near as efficient as simply upgrading the existing boiler.

We have a wood insert with a simple blower fan and run it on weekends when we are around the house. We love the ambiance and it does warm up the house enough that the thermostat for our forced air system never calls for more heat so we do save money. However we don't love it enough to run it full time plus get up in the middle of the night to keep it stoked.
Topic Author
chrismj
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Re: Hydronic fireplace home heating

Post by chrismj »

Thanks for the replies. I'll get some reading in but it looks like an energy audit to find structural upgrades will be the first step, and some minor addition to the fireplace to improve convection when in use.

I remember my uncle having one of these wood-fired boilers and heating his place very cheaply. But he was in the country with no gas lines and free wood.
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