Car accident - was directed to sign release

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goodlifer
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Re: Car accident - was directed to sign release

Post by goodlifer » Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:34 pm

snackdog wrote:
Tue Jan 16, 2018 6:42 pm
Please be fair and considerate to all parties. Consider your wife could have lingering issues which cause pain and suffering or require treatment. But also consider the insurance company is trying to keep claims and rates low by not paying frivolous claims. Asking for anything more than actual plus reasonable forecast damages doesn’t strike me as fair.

I wonder if you could settle now on the car claim but propose to wait 12 months on the injuries and follow up.
None of the insurance agencies I dealt with after people hit me would cut a check for anything until after the release was signed. It is an all or nothing deal.

The car seat debate is beyond ridiculous and anyone stating it shouldn't be replaced should just be ignored. How much does your wife feel is fair for pain and suffering? I took the first offer the agent gave me the last time we were hit because I thought it was a fair amount for my pain. I was offered $1000. Asking for 5x my medical bills would have amounted to around $30,000, which would have been lovely for me but overkill for my neck injury. My insurance company and agent didn't really help me at all. They called once, and answered my questions when I called them. Settling on an amount was up to me. Good luck to you and hope your wife heals quickly.

limeyx
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Re: Car accident - was directed to sign release

Post by limeyx » Wed Jan 17, 2018 1:23 am

CAsage wrote:
Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:35 am
Why would you assume the car seat needs to be replaced? Was it damaged? Car seats typically sell for $50 to $100, so .... unclear on your basis for that claim. Was the frame or structure of the car damaged? Was the repair not good enough, and the car so high value, and you were planning on selling it shortly that you will actually realize a diminished value?

I do think you have a valid claim for the lost wages (clearly quantifiable and traceable). Would wait a month or two to ensure that all the medical costs are behind you and totalled up.... then move on with your life. Just my thoughts.
You should always replace any car seat that has been in an accident if only as a precaution

boglerdude
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Re: Car accident - was directed to sign release

Post by boglerdude » Wed Jan 17, 2018 4:55 am

JaneyLH wrote:
Tue Jan 16, 2018 6:11 pm
Since I had uninsured motorist coverage with State Farm, they eventually offered me 5x the amount of my medical expenses.
How do you negotiate that, what leverage do you have with your own insurance co

Also, was there anything your health insurance wouldnt cover? Do they expect you to pay anything back if you get a settlement?

birdog
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Re: Car accident - was directed to sign release

Post by birdog » Wed Jan 17, 2018 6:57 am

researcher wrote:
Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:12 pm
neilpilot wrote:
Thu Jan 11, 2018 1:28 pm
Simple.....I googled the topic but failed to read the entire article. After more discussion, I did much more reading and PMed the OP with some of the original NHTSA proposals before their final recommendation. Seems that the definition of a minor crash was revised after a lobbing effort of the child seat manufacturers.
The entire NHTSA guidline is only 140 words.
Yet you couldn't be bothered to read more than the first 2 sentences before posting misleading/inaccurate information?
https://www.nhtsa.gov/car-seat-use-after-crash

You made a lazy attempt to show how ridiculous the OP is for wanting his carseat replaced after an accident.
When presented with the actual facts, you then do "much more reading" in a desperate attempt to question the validity of the NHTSA recommendation.

The OP didn't cause the accident or make up NHTSA guidelines.
He is simply following federal guidelines and attempting to keep his young child safe.

Why are you suggesting he ignore these guidelines, and risk the safety of his child, just to save the at-fault insurance company from paying for a new car seat? Isn't $300 is a small price to pay to "ensure a continued high level of crash protection for child passengers"?
Exactly what I was thinking.

Rupert
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Re: Car accident - was directed to sign release

Post by Rupert » Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:57 am

Just fyi: Several years ago, I received diminished value for a 10+ year old car that had previously been damaged in an accident. It wasn't much (about $300-350), but it was something. The at-fault party's insurance company sent an adjuster to examine my car after it had been repaired, which seemed kind of stupid to me but that's what they did. I initially asked for about $500. They countered with $200. And we settled on the $300-350 figure. It wasn't hard.

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CAsage
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Re: Car accident - was directed to sign release

Post by CAsage » Wed Jan 17, 2018 11:46 am

limeyx wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 1:23 am
CAsage wrote:
Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:35 am
Why would you assume the car seat needs to be replaced? Was it damaged?
You should always replace any car seat that has been in an accident if only as a precaution
If you want to pay for it. The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration has clear guidelines on this. "Always" is indefensible and excessive, and by no means a good guideline. Do you replace all the seat belts? Like in so many cases, each circumstance needs to be evaluated.

https://www.thespruce.com/after-a-crash ... ced-293716
Salvia Clevelandii "Winifred Gilman" my favorite. YMMV; not a professional advisor.

ssquared87
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Re: Car accident - was directed to sign release

Post by ssquared87 » Wed Jan 17, 2018 12:34 pm

Strongly suggest you call a lawyer.

I was in a pretty bad accident and the at fault party's insurance played friendly and nice at the beginning, offered me $1k and to pay my medical bills. I told them that it was so soon after the accident and that I was just focused on recovering and wouldn't sign anything.

As I learned more about the injury, it became clear that I'd either need major surgery or to live with constant pain. At the beginning I just figured that things would get better, but as time went on, the pain was preventing me from doing things I enjoyed doing, and my frustration and anger over the injury increased.

Don't sign the offer from insurance. Your feelings about the situation may change over time if the injury is worse than you thought. A lawyer will make sure the insurance company doesn't try to screw you over. My lawyer charges 33% of the recovery if it settles before trial, 40% if it goes to trial up to $1M. Most certainly you'll get more than $600 and the lawyer does the bulk of the work. The insurance companies will strong arm you and do unethical things to try to close your case. Since I've hired my lawyer, I haven't heard anything from the other insurance company, and my lawyer handles all the paperwork. Took away a lot of the stress and has let me focus on getting better instead of worrying about bills and negotiations.

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ChowYunPhat
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Re: Car accident - was directed to sign release

Post by ChowYunPhat » Wed Jan 17, 2018 12:46 pm

Take other posters' advice and call a lawyer. I've been through 3 accidents where there was medical issues in play, and from experience you always want a lawyer involved to help with paperwork and ensure opposing insurers behave. Trust me when I say you do not want to DIY an auto accident that has a medical piece. I would post a separate thread for injury attorney recommendations or check with local friends who've been through this before. I've tried DIY route and the system is designed to work for attorneys, not claimants.

FWIW, you might be struggling with feelings of guilt as the process requires you to "sue" person at fault. You need to get over this as it's part of the process and the at fault party's insurer basically steps in to cover this event. Best of luck to you, and don't go this one alone...certainly don't sign the release.
A wise man and his money are friends forever...

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JaneyLH
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Re: Car accident - was directed to sign release

Post by JaneyLH » Wed Jan 17, 2018 12:57 pm

boglerdude wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 4:55 am
JaneyLH wrote:
Tue Jan 16, 2018 6:11 pm
Since I had uninsured motorist coverage with State Farm, they eventually offered me 5x the amount of my medical expenses.
How do you negotiate that, what leverage do you have with your own insurance co

Also, was there anything your health insurance wouldnt cover? Do they expect you to pay anything back if you get a settlement?
My health insurance covered all my medical expenses but asked me to repay their costs after I accepted the settlement. Of course I still benefitted from their negotiated costs.

There was no negotiation with State Farm. I could have hired a lawyer to try and negotiate a higher settlement or threaten a lawsuit. In my case, though, they told me to contact them when I was certain that my medical issues had been resolved. I did that and provided documentation of those expenses. State Farm contacted me several days later and made the 5x offer. I thought it was fair so I accepted it. The settlement was about $10,000 plus replacement of my car and I had no surgeries or permanent injuries.

runner3081
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Re: Car accident - was directed to sign release

Post by runner3081 » Wed Jan 17, 2018 1:29 pm

Rupert wrote:
Tue Jan 16, 2018 4:59 pm
runner3081 wrote:
Tue Jan 16, 2018 4:44 pm
miamivice wrote:
Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:42 am
CAsage wrote:
Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:35 am
Why would you assume the car seat needs to be replaced? Was it damaged? Car seats typically sell for $50 to $100, so .... unclear on your basis for that claim.
You can google car seat accident and see that it's common to replace them when a car has been in an accident. I'm not sure where you pick up $50 car seats, but the one that we have cost $300 when it was new, and $300 to replace it. The insurance company has already agreed to pay that so it's a non-issue.
Walmart has well rated ones for $40 (rated well for safety). We have never paid more than that for a car seat.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Cosco-Scener ... 3=&veh=sem
C'mon. That's completely irrelevant, and this carseat discussion is getting ridiculous. The OP's carseat cost $300. It was OP's carseat, not a $40 Walmart carseat, that was damaged. If your Mercedes is totaled in an accident, do you expect the insurance company to reimburse you the value of a Kia?
I was responding to this question:
"I'm not sure where you pick up $50 car seats"

maylikesun
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Re: Car accident - was directed to sign release

Post by maylikesun » Wed Jan 17, 2018 1:35 pm

Had an accident as pedestrian hit by a car. I hired a lawyer. The pain and suffering compensation was the only thing being negotiated. There is no CAP and no expiration date for medical bills.

TheDDC
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Re: Car accident - was directed to sign release

Post by TheDDC » Wed Jan 17, 2018 1:37 pm

Three words to help you for next time: buy full tort. Don't be a cheap skate when it comes to car insurance. Especially if you aren't paying for collision coverage.

Pretty much all of these issues go away when there's a "paid for" attorney threat.

I speak from experience. My wife (stay at home mom) sustained a whiplash injury and, yes, we got the car seat replaced and paid for by our insurance company. I would presume they went after the other company for this coetnin the subjugation process. No need to argue with the OP on that. All of that is your own dime/own time while you recover and lose work, and I can say the opposing insurance company will do things like move your case to different adjustors just to wear you down. Again, I learned my lesson about full versus limited tort.

Mind you all this happened before we got full tort. We did get "lost time" back which is also difficult to quantify in $$$ when you have a toddler and stay at home mom situation. However, we had a sound calculation that the other party's Insurance carrier accepted. We did get 100% medical paid by our own carrier no questions asked since its part of the coverage we pay for. We could not frame anything in terms of P&S since in my state (PA) the next question is always "do you have full tort?" when you inject that term into the conversation.

-TheDDC
Last edited by TheDDC on Wed Jan 17, 2018 1:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

jbmitt
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Re: Car accident - was directed to sign release

Post by jbmitt » Wed Jan 17, 2018 1:40 pm

pivoprussia wrote:
Tue Jan 16, 2018 6:33 pm
ADower wrote:
Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:04 pm
I have a friend who is an insurance adjuster;

You will not get diminished value. The only time they ever even think about paying this is if you have a high end car. 100K+
Pain and suffering - Ask for 2-3X of the total medical costs and negotiate from there.
Medical Bills - They pay them all in full.
It's the law in many states.

There are companies who make it their job to assist you with this claim.

So, yes, it is very possible to get diminished value.

https://www.valuepenguin.com/auto-insur ... alue-claim

And years ago I received diminished value on a 60k car.
It's the law only in Georgia. It some places it's honored based on previous case law and is calculated similar to Georgia. It's a negotiation point but it is not the law in many states as you say.

limeyx
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Re: Car accident - was directed to sign release

Post by limeyx » Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:56 am

CAsage wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 11:46 am
limeyx wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 1:23 am
CAsage wrote:
Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:35 am
Why would you assume the car seat needs to be replaced? Was it damaged?
You should always replace any car seat that has been in an accident if only as a precaution
If you want to pay for it. The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration has clear guidelines on this. "Always" is indefensible and excessive, and by no means a good guideline. Do you replace all the seat belts? Like in so many cases, each circumstance needs to be evaluated.

https://www.thespruce.com/after-a-crash ... ced-293716
Guessing you don't have kids then ....

pivoprussia
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Re: Car accident - was directed to sign release

Post by pivoprussia » Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:04 am

jbmitt wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 1:40 pm
pivoprussia wrote:
Tue Jan 16, 2018 6:33 pm
ADower wrote:
Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:04 pm
I have a friend who is an insurance adjuster;

You will not get diminished value. The only time they ever even think about paying this is if you have a high end car. 100K+
Pain and suffering - Ask for 2-3X of the total medical costs and negotiate from there.
Medical Bills - They pay them all in full.
It's the law in many states.

There are companies who make it their job to assist you with this claim.

So, yes, it is very possible to get diminished value.

https://www.valuepenguin.com/auto-insur ... alue-claim

And years ago I received diminished value on a 60k car.
It's the law only in Georgia. It some places it's honored based on previous case law and is calculated similar to Georgia. It's a negotiation point but it is not the law in many states as you say.
Apologies...you are technically correct. But many states do allow it. Some specifically do not.

Here is the policy for each sate.

https://www.mwl-law.com/wp-content/uplo ... states.pdf

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CAsage
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Re: Car accident - was directed to sign release

Post by CAsage » Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:31 am

limeyx wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:56 am
CAsage wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 11:46 am
limeyx wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 1:23 am
CAsage wrote:
Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:35 am
Why would you assume the car seat needs to be replaced? Was it damaged?
You should always replace any car seat that has been in an accident if only as a precaution
If you want to pay for it. The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration has clear guidelines on this. "Always" is indefensible and excessive, and by no means a good guideline. Do you replace all the seat belts? Like in so many cases, each circumstance needs to be evaluated.

https://www.thespruce.com/after-a-crash ... ced-293716
Guessing you don't have kids then ....
Actually, I do have kids. Don't impugn my parenting. Minor accidents do not require replacing a car seat, any more than you would go through the car replacing the air bags or seat belts. Did you look at the article? Can you make discerning judgements? Do you recognize that cases may be different? That's all I said - it depends. To require an insurance company, and by extension, all the people paying for insurance, to replace a car seat in every single accident is ludicrous. If you disagree, fine, that's your right, but don't go out of your way to imply I'm irresponsible.

Edit: I feel this highlights a deeper issue with science and judgement in this country. I have a Masters in EE, and spent years analyzing requirements, facts, reports, etc. It's critically important that people learn how to assess risk, look at the facts, make a judgement on the situation and reach an appropriate conclusion. If you really feel that "all accidents" need to replace the car seat because of any possible unknown, unmeasurable, invisible damage - why not replace the whole car? If someone rolls into my car in a parking lot or at a stop sign and dents my bumper, can one then assume that the car is no longer safe? Clearly there are serious accidents where seat belts are stressed, but one cannot say "ALL accidents". It varies.
Salvia Clevelandii "Winifred Gilman" my favorite. YMMV; not a professional advisor.

limeyx
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Re: Car accident - was directed to sign release

Post by limeyx » Thu Jan 18, 2018 2:49 pm

CAsage wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:31 am
limeyx wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:56 am
CAsage wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 11:46 am
limeyx wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 1:23 am
CAsage wrote:
Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:35 am
Why would you assume the car seat needs to be replaced? Was it damaged?
You should always replace any car seat that has been in an accident if only as a precaution
If you want to pay for it. The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration has clear guidelines on this. "Always" is indefensible and excessive, and by no means a good guideline. Do you replace all the seat belts? Like in so many cases, each circumstance needs to be evaluated.

https://www.thespruce.com/after-a-crash ... ced-293716
Guessing you don't have kids then ....
Actually, I do have kids. Don't impugn my parenting. Minor accidents do not require replacing a car seat, any more than you would go through the car replacing the air bags or seat belts. Did you look at the article? Can you make discerning judgements? Do you recognize that cases may be different? That's all I said - it depends. To require an insurance company, and by extension, all the people paying for insurance, to replace a car seat in every single accident is ludicrous. If you disagree, fine, that's your right, but don't go out of your way to imply I'm irresponsible.

Edit: I feel this highlights a deeper issue with science and judgement in this country. I have a Masters in EE, and spent years analyzing requirements, facts, reports, etc. It's critically important that people learn how to assess risk, look at the facts, make a judgement on the situation and reach an appropriate conclusion. If you really feel that "all accidents" need to replace the car seat because of any possible unknown, unmeasurable, invisible damage - why not replace the whole car? If someone rolls into my car in a parking lot or at a stop sign and dents my bumper, can one then assume that the car is no longer safe? Clearly there are serious accidents where seat belts are stressed, but one cannot say "ALL accidents". It varies.
Not meaning to impugn you. I suppose you are right that if someone drifts into me at 5mph I'm not going to replace the car seat

It just seems to me that since these things are designed to crumple, I'd rather be safe than sorry and since I can't ask anyone to inspect it like I could my car, then I don't have a good way to evaluate its safety so I'd rather go on the side of caution based on my judgement and not a list of things a government document says

BackOfTheNet
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Re: Car accident - was directed to sign release

Post by BackOfTheNet » Thu Jan 18, 2018 3:11 pm

Just another data point on diminished value. I was in an accident (not at fault) and asked for $1,400 in diminished value on a $3,500 repair. Other party's insurance accepted with no negotiations. Was a pretty straightforward process.

miamivice
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Re: Car accident - was directed to sign release

Post by miamivice » Thu Jan 18, 2018 3:48 pm

CAsage wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:31 am
limeyx wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:56 am
CAsage wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 11:46 am
limeyx wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 1:23 am
CAsage wrote:
Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:35 am
Why would you assume the car seat needs to be replaced? Was it damaged?
You should always replace any car seat that has been in an accident if only as a precaution
If you want to pay for it. The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration has clear guidelines on this. "Always" is indefensible and excessive, and by no means a good guideline. Do you replace all the seat belts? Like in so many cases, each circumstance needs to be evaluated.

https://www.thespruce.com/after-a-crash ... ced-293716
Guessing you don't have kids then ....
Actually, I do have kids. Don't impugn my parenting. Minor accidents do not require replacing a car seat, any more than you would go through the car replacing the air bags or seat belts. Did you look at the article? Can you make discerning judgements? Do you recognize that cases may be different? That's all I said - it depends. To require an insurance company, and by extension, all the people paying for insurance, to replace a car seat in every single accident is ludicrous. If you disagree, fine, that's your right, but don't go out of your way to imply I'm irresponsible.

Edit: I feel this highlights a deeper issue with science and judgement in this country. I have a Masters in EE, and spent years analyzing requirements, facts, reports, etc. It's critically important that people learn how to assess risk, look at the facts, make a judgement on the situation and reach an appropriate conclusion. If you really feel that "all accidents" need to replace the car seat because of any possible unknown, unmeasurable, invisible damage - why not replace the whole car? If someone rolls into my car in a parking lot or at a stop sign and dents my bumper, can one then assume that the car is no longer safe? Clearly there are serious accidents where seat belts are stressed, but one cannot say "ALL accidents". It varies.
The seat belt or airbag argument is a red herring. Seat belts are designed to restrain and can be reused multiple times. They are not designed to fail in an effort to protect the passenger. Airbags are single use. I recommend replacing them after each time they deploy. If they don't deploy they don't need to be replaced.

Carseats are different though. Like bicycle helmets, they are designed sacrifice themselves in order to protect the item that they surround. The sytrofoam will absorb the impact, and in doing so, deforms, deflects, cracks, or shatters. As it permanently changes shape, it is absorbing and defusing energy from the accident and protecting the occupant in the car.

What makes carseats difficult is that it is hard to evaluate how much energy they have absorbed (i.e., how much they have deformed) and whether their ability to further absorb energy is diminished. There may be hairline cracks or other hard to identify damage that has happened.

While perhaps every vehicle accident doesn't warrant a carseat replacement, I think it's a wise idea to replace carseats after accidents.

denovo
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Re: Car accident - was directed to sign release

Post by denovo » Thu Jan 18, 2018 3:58 pm

miamivice wrote:
Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:26 am

$300 - carseat replacement

Did you pay $300 for the car seat you already had?
"Don't trust everything you read on the Internet"- Abraham Lincoln

miamivice
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Re: Car accident - was directed to sign release

Post by miamivice » Thu Jan 18, 2018 4:06 pm

snackdog wrote:
Tue Jan 16, 2018 6:42 pm
Please be fair and considerate to all parties. Consider your wife could have lingering issues which cause pain and suffering or require treatment. But also consider the insurance company is trying to keep claims and rates low by not paying frivolous claims. Asking for anything more than actual plus reasonable forecast damages doesn’t strike me as fair.
I'm not sure why you don't feel diminished value or pain/suffering is fair to ask for? My has been injured for an extended length of time, and it has impacted her ability to perform at her job as well as be a mom to our children. I don't see why asking compensation for temporarily difficulty in performing normal life duties is inappropriate.

miamivice
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Re: Car accident - was directed to sign release

Post by miamivice » Thu Jan 18, 2018 4:10 pm

denovo wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 3:58 pm
miamivice wrote:
Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:26 am

$300 - carseat replacement

Did you pay $300 for the car seat you already had?
We are replacing our existing carseat with one of the same brand, model, and color as the previous carseat. I don't recall how much my wife paid for the one that was in the accident.

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