Anyone disenchanted with retirement?

Questions on how we spend our money and our time - consumer goods and services, home and vehicle, leisure and recreational activities
smitcat
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Re: Anyone disenchanted with retirement?

Post by smitcat » Thu Aug 22, 2019 9:00 am

mptfan wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 8:31 am
Hyperborea wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 6:06 pm
mptfan wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 10:49 am
I don't get how some people claim to be retired while still working. If you are running two businesses and managing real estate, you are not retired.
It's a mindset change more than anything. Retirement doesn't require that you sit in a Barcalounger watching Matlock reruns interspersed with burial insurance and catheter ads while drinking prune smoothies.

I've been retired since I was 51 for coming on 3 years now and I'm 1 year into a 2 year college course. Am I still retired? How can I be retired since I'm a full time college student? I could also see doing something that made money too if I felt it was interesting but I have no need at all financially to do so.
I guess we are going to have to agree to disagree. I don't think it's a mindset, I think it is more than that. If it was just a mindset change, then I could continue to work full time and claim that I am retired now because I changed my mindset while working full time. I just don't buy that. For the word to have any meaning it has to mean something that is more objective than whatever you think it means or whatever mindset you have at the time.

I agree that being retired does not require sitting in a lounge chair all day, but I think it does require avoiding working for pay. You can do pretty much whatever you want while being retired except work for pay. College courses are not paid work so you can take courses and still be retired, so long as you are not paid to take the courses. I also don't think that you can be retired while working full time and doing paid work that you find interesting but for which you do not need the money. By that logic anyone who continues to work full time can claim that their work is interesting and that they do not need the money and therefore claim that they are retired, and Warren Buffett is not retired and Steve Jobs was not retired while he continued to work long hours because he loved his job and found it interesting and did not need the money because he was a billionare. If that is the definition of retired, then I think the word loses its meaning.

I suppose there can be a little bit of wiggle room for someone who works very little and only for fun or something to do, like one day a week at the golf course to get reduced green fees, but as soon as I say that, someone will come along and say what about two or three days a week at the golf course? And then it quickly becomes a slippery slope. So either you are retired or you are not. If you are not, then you may be mostly retired or partially retired, but if you work for money you are not retired.


Then by your definition we are not retired at this time - my wife and I put in between 20-30 hours a week at 'work'.
We take off whenever we plan and often travel 5 times a year (2017 was 8 times). Our 'jobs' are mostly fun with an occasional aggravation thrown in just like life.
FWIW …
- there is no comparison to what we do now and when we worked at corporate jobs
- there will likely be very little difference in our pattern when we "fully retire"

mptfan
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Re: Anyone disenchanted with retirement?

Post by mptfan » Thu Aug 22, 2019 9:34 am

smitcat wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 9:00 am
Then by your definition we are not retired at this time - my wife and I put in between 20-30 hours a week at 'work'.
It should not be controversial to say that if you are working 20-30 hours per week you are not retired. Is that up for debate now? Has the word "retired" lost all meaning to the point where anyone can claim to be retired while continuing to work?
:oops:

I find this to be a disturbing trend in our society...words mean whatever each person thinks they mean, it's how you feel or think that matters.

rj342
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Re: Anyone disenchanted with retirement?

Post by rj342 » Thu Aug 22, 2019 9:49 am

bhsince87 wrote:
Thu Mar 28, 2019 9:38 pm
...
My biggest downside so far is that I am having a hard time spending money. I was planning on a 3% withdrawal rate, with a $9-10k monthly budget. So far, I'm averaging about $2k per month. Not a bad problem to have, but I need to figure out how to get over the $ hoarding mentality!
That was my biggest issue with some of the examples when I read The Millionaire Next Door... some were soooo tight, what was the 'extra' money they accumulating *for*? At some point hoarding money for its own sake isn't that much healthier than being a bit too loose with it.

ruhigste
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Re: Anyone disenchanted with retirement?

Post by ruhigste » Thu Aug 22, 2019 10:10 am

We're 4 and 1/2 years into retirement. We love Sunday evenings because we know we don't have to go back "there." We love Monday mornings because we're not going back "there." If we had loved our jobs, we might have continued for a few more years. Such was not the case.

sport
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Re: Anyone disenchanted with retirement?

Post by sport » Thu Aug 22, 2019 10:14 am

mptfan wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 9:34 am
smitcat wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 9:00 am
Then by your definition we are not retired at this time - my wife and I put in between 20-30 hours a week at 'work'.
It should not be controversial to say that if you are working 20-30 hours per week you are not retired. Is that up for debate now? Has the word "retired" lost all meaning to the point where anyone can claim to be retired while continuing to work?
:oops:

I find this to be a disturbing trend in our society...words mean whatever each person thinks they mean, it's how you feel or think that matters.
Some people say they are "semi-retired". That would seem to solve the definition difficulty.

smitcat
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Re: Anyone disenchanted with retirement?

Post by smitcat » Thu Aug 22, 2019 10:44 am

mptfan wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 9:34 am
smitcat wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 9:00 am
Then by your definition we are not retired at this time - my wife and I put in between 20-30 hours a week at 'work'.
It should not be controversial to say that if you are working 20-30 hours per week you are not retired. Is that up for debate now? Has the word "retired" lost all meaning to the point where anyone can claim to be retired while continuing to work?
:oops:

I find this to be a disturbing trend in our society...words mean whatever each person thinks they mean, it's how you feel or think that matters.
As I said - by your definition we are not retired.

smitcat
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Re: Anyone disenchanted with retirement?

Post by smitcat » Thu Aug 22, 2019 10:45 am

smitcat wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 10:44 am
mptfan wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 9:34 am
smitcat wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 9:00 am
Then by your definition we are not retired at this time - my wife and I put in between 20-30 hours a week at 'work'.
It should not be controversial to say that if you are working 20-30 hours per week you are not retired. Is that up for debate now? Has the word "retired" lost all meaning to the point where anyone can claim to be retired while continuing to work?
:oops:

I find this to be a disturbing trend in our society...words mean whatever each person thinks they mean, it's how you feel or think that matters.
As I said - by your definition we are not retired.
That 20-30 hours per week is between the both of us.

mptfan
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Re: Anyone disenchanted with retirement?

Post by mptfan » Thu Aug 22, 2019 11:04 am

smitcat wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 10:44 am
As I said - by your definition we are not retired.
When you say "by your definition" you leave it open for interpretation that you do not agree with my definition, or that "my definition" is not commonly accepted.

smitcat
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Re: Anyone disenchanted with retirement?

Post by smitcat » Thu Aug 22, 2019 11:17 am

mptfan wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 11:04 am
smitcat wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 10:44 am
As I said - by your definition we are not retired.
When you say "by your definition" you leave it open for interpretation that you do not agree with my definition, or that "my definition" is not commonly accepted.
Your definition is great for you in this application - that is whey I described exactly our situation and never said we were "retired".
For another view ….if I participate here on posts about folks hating their jobs and said we were 'working' the folks working 60+ hours with no flexibility would counter that we are not working and are really retired.
You may do what you want with interpretation as I described the situation as best I could.

supersecretname
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Re: Anyone disenchanted with retirement?

Post by supersecretname » Thu Aug 22, 2019 11:31 am

ah, yes, the Internet Retirement Police
https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2013/02 ... nt-police/

smitcat
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Re: Anyone disenchanted with retirement?

Post by smitcat » Thu Aug 22, 2019 11:46 am

supersecretname wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 11:31 am
ah, yes, the Internet Retirement Police
https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2013/02 ... nt-police/
This is great - I did not know about the IRP.
Thank you

PhilosophyAndrew
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Re: Anyone disenchanted with retirement?

Post by PhilosophyAndrew » Thu Aug 22, 2019 11:50 am

This argument seems plausible only if the various markets firms compete in are robust and fair. One can imagine many circumstances (monopolies, quasi-monopolies, various types of corruption) where corporate success would not require them to benefit their customers.

Indeed, many of those flaws exist in markets across the world. (The practice of capitalism may not live up to its theoretical perfection, but to admit this isn’t to say that we know of any better economic system...).

Andy.

technovelist wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:33 am
mak1277 wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 9:34 am
visualguy wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 7:16 pm

There was also a sense of waste of abilities, and lack of satisfaction from a purely hedonistic/consumerist type of existence. I could have volunteered, but then why not do what I'm really good at and trained for, and go back to contributing through work?
I think this is a very interesting question. Do you work at a non-profit or for-profit entity? Do you believe the mission of your employer is inherently good?

My personal point of view is that for profit companies exist only to enrich their shareholders, and as such, the only thing I'm contributing to by working for them is to enrich shareholders and/or myself. Non-profits (good ones at least) exist to better the world. Any time or energy I give to a worthy non-profit is therefore more valuable to the world at large than any time I give to my employer.
For-profit companies can survive only if they transform less-valuable resources into more-valuable resources. This means that they must be benefiting their customers as well as shareholders and employees.

Which is why almost everything we see around us that makes our lives better was created by for-profit companies.

22twain
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Re: Anyone disenchanted with retirement?

Post by 22twain » Thu Aug 22, 2019 1:31 pm

mptfan wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 9:34 am
I find this to be a disturbing trend in our society...words mean whatever each person thinks they mean, it's how you feel or think that matters.
This actually goes back quite a while:
"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less."

"The question is," said Alice, "whether you can make words mean so many different things."

"The question is," said Humpty Dumpty, "which is to be master—that's all."
-- Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass (1872)
:wink:

My wife officially retired from her full-time college faculty position several years ago, and received the college's early-retirement benefits. However, she continues to teach one or two courses per semester as an adjunct, for at most a quarter of her final full-time salary, and no benefits. She calls herself "technically retired."
My investing princiPLEs do not include absolutely preserving princiPAL.

TravelforFun
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Re: Anyone disenchanted with retirement?

Post by TravelforFun » Thu Aug 22, 2019 7:12 pm

bhsince87 wrote:
Thu Mar 28, 2019 9:38 pm
...
My biggest downside so far is that I am having a hard time spending money. I was planning on a 3% withdrawal rate, with a $9-10k monthly budget. So far, I'm averaging about $2k per month. Not a bad problem to have, but I need to figure out how to get over the $ hoarding mentality!
You set up a budget of $9-10K a month based on, I guess, your spending level at the time. How did you end up spending only $2k per month? Something caused you to cut back on everything?

TravelforFun

bearcub
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Re: Anyone disenchanted with retirement?

Post by bearcub » Thu Aug 22, 2019 7:26 pm

Nope. Over 10 years now hanging out in the heart of nature baby. Just breathing in that good a-s prana baby. Feels so good to be alive. 8-)

Starfish
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Re: Anyone disenchanted with retirement?

Post by Starfish » Thu Aug 22, 2019 7:41 pm

mptfan wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 9:34 am
smitcat wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 9:00 am
Then by your definition we are not retired at this time - my wife and I put in between 20-30 hours a week at 'work'.
It should not be controversial to say that if you are working 20-30 hours per week you are not retired. Is that up for debate now? Has the word "retired" lost all meaning to the point where anyone can claim to be retired while continuing to work?
:oops:

I find this to be a disturbing trend in our society...words mean whatever each person thinks they mean, it's how you feel or think that matters.
IMHO retired means you do what you want to do and income received is not a determining factor.
Is it acceptable to ski or hike when I am retired? It's a job for some (mountain rescue, ski patrol etc).
Can I sail a boat? It's a job for a sailor.
Can I scuba dive? It's a job for a commercial diver.
Can I build a house?
Can I volunteer in community? Can I have hobbies? can I do woodwork or art? write a book, make a movie or photography? can I teach? All of these can jobs, and with some I can even earn some money.
Retirement should not be restricted to a set of narrow, accepted activities. If you do want you want to without financial restrictions you are retired. Retirement is not watching TV the whole day.

mptfan
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Re: Anyone disenchanted with retirement?

Post by mptfan » Thu Aug 22, 2019 8:20 pm

Starfish wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 7:41 pm
IMHO retired means you do what you want to do and income received is not a determining factor.
Is it acceptable to ski or hike when I am retired? It's a job for some (mountain rescue, ski patrol etc).
Can I sail a boat? It's a job for a sailor.
Can I scuba dive? It's a job for a commercial diver.
Can I build a house?
Can I volunteer in community? Can I have hobbies? can I do woodwork or art? write a book, make a movie or photography? can I teach? All of these can jobs, and with some I can even earn some money.
Retirement should not be restricted to a set of narrow, accepted activities. If you do want you want to without financial restrictions you are retired. Retirement is not watching TV the whole day.
I didn't think this would be so controversial or hard to understand, but here goes...

Yes, almost anything you can do is a job for someone, but that's not the issue, it's whether it is a job for YOU, i.e. whether YOU are doing it for pay or not. Simple really. You can do almost anything you want and still be retired, so long as you are not doing it in exchange for payment. You can sail a boat or build a house or scuba dive or do just about anything you want, and I certainly never said or implied that being retired means you must be "restricted to a set of narrow, accepted activities." Did you really think that I meant being retired means you are not allowed to have hobbies?
:oops:

If income is not a determining factor, then anyone who wants to work can claim to be retired while continuing to work. A doctor fresh out of medical school who loves his job and works long hours to help people can claim that he is retired by that definition so long as he wants to work.

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Socrates
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Re: Anyone disenchanted with retirement?

Post by Socrates » Thu Aug 22, 2019 9:52 pm

crazy if you are



like nothing better than not to work, but to enjoy free time with loved ones, nature,traveling, sleeping....you name it
“Don't waste your time looking back. You're not going that way.” ― Ragnar Lothbrok.

Starfish
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Re: Anyone disenchanted with retirement?

Post by Starfish » Thu Aug 22, 2019 10:42 pm

mptfan wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 8:20 pm
Starfish wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 7:41 pm
IMHO retired means you do what you want to do and income received is not a determining factor.
Is it acceptable to ski or hike when I am retired? It's a job for some (mountain rescue, ski patrol etc).
Can I sail a boat? It's a job for a sailor.
Can I scuba dive? It's a job for a commercial diver.
Can I build a house?
Can I volunteer in community? Can I have hobbies? can I do woodwork or art? write a book, make a movie or photography? can I teach? All of these can jobs, and with some I can even earn some money.
Retirement should not be restricted to a set of narrow, accepted activities. If you do want you want to without financial restrictions you are retired. Retirement is not watching TV the whole day.
I didn't think this would be so controversial or hard to understand, but here goes...

Yes, almost anything you can do is a job for someone, but that's not the issue, it's whether it is a job for YOU, i.e. whether YOU are doing it for pay or not. Simple really.

Did you read the first sentence of my post? :D
I would say though that this is not a good definition either. I know plenty of people who are financially independent and work normal jobs and they do not considering themselves retired. They don't have to work for money, but they do it for other reasons. Some do it because they like it but amazingly some don't even like it.

So you say is a simple definition but I don't think is simple at all. Finally it matters only what you consider yourself.

The problem obviously stems from the old definition. Old meaning of retirement was very different from what we try to do nowadays. It used to be that you are retired because you cannot work and you have enough money for basic needs. Active retirement today for people in the first world is a very different animal.
Last edited by Starfish on Thu Aug 22, 2019 10:53 pm, edited 3 times in total.

MathIsMyWayr
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Re: Anyone disenchanted with retirement?

Post by MathIsMyWayr » Thu Aug 22, 2019 10:45 pm

rj342 wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 9:49 am
bhsince87 wrote:
Thu Mar 28, 2019 9:38 pm
...
My biggest downside so far is that I am having a hard time spending money. I was planning on a 3% withdrawal rate, with a $9-10k monthly budget. So far, I'm averaging about $2k per month. Not a bad problem to have, but I need to figure out how to get over the $ hoarding mentality!
That was my biggest issue with some of the examples when I read The Millionaire Next Door... some were soooo tight, what was the 'extra' money they accumulating *for*? At some point hoarding money for its own sake isn't that much healthier than being a bit too loose with it.
If you don't, don't know how to, don't have a plan to, don't have a desire to, spend money, then it is not your money. You are just holding it for someone else. If there is a huge deposit of gold mineral under our house and I am not aware of it, then it is not as better than it being not there.

brajalle
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Re: Anyone disenchanted with retirement?

Post by brajalle » Thu Aug 22, 2019 11:45 pm

Retirement to me is pretty simple.
1. Have you reached a point financially where you never have to work another hour for the rest of your life?
2. Have you left the (typically full-time) employment status under which you met #1?
3. Can you walk away from any subsequent job at any time?
4. Do you consider yourself retired?
If yes to all, then you are retired.

mptfan
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Re: Anyone disenchanted with retirement?

Post by mptfan » Fri Aug 23, 2019 6:29 am

Starfish wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 10:42 pm
So you say is a simple definition but I don't think is simple at all. Finally it matters only what you consider yourself.
I respectfully disagree. Anyone can "consider" themselves retired, it's a free country and you can "consider yourself" to be anything you want, but that is different than actually being retired. I can consider myself to be a bird because I flew the other day (in an airplane) but that does not make me a bird. I can continue to work full time, and by your definition I may "consider myself" to be retired but that does not make me retired, I think that stretches the word so far that it loses all meaning. Words matter and words have commonly accepted definitions, that is why we have dictionaries. If words mean nothing more than what each person considers them to mean then it becomes difficult to communicate in a way that is meaningful because everyone has their own definition and their own concept of what words mean.

pennywise
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Re: Anyone disenchanted with retirement?

Post by pennywise » Fri Aug 23, 2019 6:55 am

mptfan wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 8:20 pm
I didn't think this would be so controversial or hard to understand, but here goes...

Yes, almost anything you can do is a job for someone, but that's not the issue, it's whether it is a job for YOU, i.e. whether YOU are doing it for pay or not. Simple really. You can do almost anything you want and still be retired, so long as you are not doing it in exchange for payment.

If income is not a determining factor, then anyone who wants to work can claim to be retired while continuing to work.
Conversely, one can be retired, defined as no longer earning a paycheck, and definitely have income be a determining factor. If there is no pension or it's not sufficient, if social security is too low for fiscal needs, if there are no savings, etc. then income constraints will definitely determine a great deal about one's post-working life. But that person is still retired because s/he is no longer working for pay.

Income is not the same as salary, so the original definition (retired = income is not a factor) doesn't work on that level either.

Small Law Survivor
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Re: Anyone disenchanted with retirement?

Post by Small Law Survivor » Fri Aug 23, 2019 6:57 am

Good Listener wrote:
Mon Jan 08, 2018 5:50 pm
I get disappointed anyday I have anything on my schedule.
Yup, often say this. I like to look at my calendar on Sunday and see NOTHING for the upcoming week.
69 yrs, semi-retired lawyer, 50/40/10 s/b/c, 70/30 dom/int'l. Plan: 4% WR until age 70, 3% after social security kicks in. Boglehead since day 1 (and M* Diehard before that) under various other names

smitcat
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Re: Anyone disenchanted with retirement?

Post by smitcat » Fri Aug 23, 2019 7:17 am

mptfan wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 6:29 am
Starfish wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 10:42 pm
So you say is a simple definition but I don't think is simple at all. Finally it matters only what you consider yourself.
I respectfully disagree. Anyone can "consider" themselves retired, it's a free country and you can "consider yourself" to be anything you want, but that is different than actually being retired. I can consider myself to be a bird because I flew the other day (in an airplane) but that does not make me a bird. I can continue to work full time, and by your definition I may "consider myself" to be retired but that does not make me retired, I think that stretches the word so far that it loses all meaning. Words matter and words have commonly accepted definitions, that is why we have dictionaries. If words mean nothing more than what each person considers them to mean then it becomes difficult to communicate in a way that is meaningful because everyone has their own definition and their own concept of what words mean.
"that is why we have dictionaries."
Meriam Websters dictionary FWIW….

"2: withdrawn from one's position or occupation : having concluded one's working or professional career"

mptfan
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Re: Anyone disenchanted with retirement?

Post by mptfan » Fri Aug 23, 2019 7:25 am

smitcat wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 7:17 am
Meriam Websters dictionary FWIW….

"2: withdrawn from one's position or occupation : having concluded one's working or professional career"
I agree those are alternate definitions, if you notice there is a colon between those two phrases which indicates alternate defintions, that is why in one of my previous posts I wrote...

There is a distinction between being retired from a particular occupation versus being retired. For example, if you retire from being a teacher, you can be a "retired teacher" and still work at another occupation or have a part time job or run a business or do whatever you want, but if you continue to work you may be a "retired teacher" or you have "retired from teaching," but you are not "retired."

smitcat
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Re: Anyone disenchanted with retirement?

Post by smitcat » Fri Aug 23, 2019 7:32 am

mptfan wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 7:25 am
smitcat wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 7:17 am
Meriam Websters dictionary FWIW….

"2: withdrawn from one's position or occupation : having concluded one's working or professional career"
I agree thos are alternate definitions, if you notice there is a colon between those two phrases which indicates alternate defintiions, that is why in one of my previous posts I wrote...

There is a distinction between being retired from a particular occupation versus being retired. For example, if you retire from being a teacher, you can be a "retired teacher" and still work at another occupation or have a part time job or run a business or do whatever you want, but if you continue to work you may be a "retired teacher" or you have "retired from teaching," but you are not "retired."
mptfan - I am not arguing at all just throwing out the dictionary definition which may or may not be totally clear to folks.
It does not matter to me if folks use alternate meanings for words - been seeing that my whole life and it was never an issue that took up any of my time. I certainly see mixed uses of words and unclear definitions of simple words on this site all the time. My solution is to ask simple questions and provide descriptions rather than a one word definition.
In general this site has been very helpful for our planning and thoughts - but what most strangers post on the internet do not affect my life at all.
YMMV

Skeeter1
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Re: Anyone disenchanted with retirement?

Post by Skeeter1 » Fri Aug 23, 2019 7:44 am

Fletch wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 6:03 am
In answer to the topic question - No. I retired in 2001.

Now I'll speculate. I suspect that the type of person who is relatively self-reliant, self-motivated and enjoys freedom will have no trouble with retirement; they will almost always come up with activities that are productive, fun, and enjoyable both in the short-term and/or long-term. I also suspect the type of person who needs structure and/or goals that are set by others may have a bit more trouble with retirement. I further suspect there are more of the first type on this forum than the latter. :sharebeer
+1
I retired 3 years ago and I am amazed at how busy I am every day. I laugh when people tell me that they could never retire because they would be bored. Crazy. I wake up without an alarm clock every morning and without planning it, have multiple lists of what I want to accomplish before I finish my first cup of fresh ground French press coffee ( my first simple reward I gave myself in retirement).
I no longer try to convince anyone about the joys of retirement.
Time is the only thing that money can not buy do not squander it .

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Sandtrap
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Re: Anyone disenchanted with retirement?

Post by Sandtrap » Fri Aug 23, 2019 8:40 am

8 years "retired" per se, and still getting used to it. :shock:
(very busy and productive with a new lifestyle that enables personal growth. . .OTOH. . missing the "action" of business)

. . . but, I have always been slow and deliberate. . .

Still not sure what I want to be "when I grow up". . . :oops:

j :happy
Wiki Bogleheads Wiki: Everything You Need to Know

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vitaflo
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Re: Anyone disenchanted with retirement?

Post by vitaflo » Fri Aug 23, 2019 9:55 pm

mptfan wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 8:20 pm
Yes, almost anything you can do is a job for someone, but that's not the issue, it's whether it is a job for YOU, i.e. whether YOU are doing it for pay or not. Simple really. You can do almost anything you want and still be retired, so long as you are not doing it in exchange for payment. Did you really think that I meant being retired means you are not allowed to have hobbies?
So if my hobby is making art I can't put my paintings up at the local coffee shop with a price on them or I'm not retired? I have to give them away? If nobody buys my artwork can I still be retired?

This is such a silly argument to have.

mptfan
Posts: 5995
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Re: Anyone disenchanted with retirement?

Post by mptfan » Fri Aug 23, 2019 10:42 pm

vitaflo wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 9:55 pm
This is such a silly argument to have.
I don't think it's silly at all, I think if you are working for money then you are not retired. Otherwise, if it's all in your head or if it is all a mindset, then anyone can claim to be retired regardless of how much they work, and that, to me, is a silly argument.

You can do whatever you want with your artwork, but I don't think you can do artwork for money while claiming to be retired. By your logic, Michelangelo and Leonardo Da Vinci were always retired because they did artwork that they loved and it doesn't matter that they were paid.

MathIsMyWayr
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Location: CA

Re: Anyone disenchanted with retirement?

Post by MathIsMyWayr » Fri Aug 23, 2019 11:09 pm

mptfan wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 10:42 pm
vitaflo wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 9:55 pm
This is such a silly argument to have.
I don't think it's silly at all, I think if you are working for money then you are not retired. Otherwise, if it's all in your head or if it is all a mindset, then anyone can claim to be retired regardless of how much they work, and that, to me, is a silly argument.

You can do whatever you want with your artwork, but I don't think you can do artwork for money while claiming to be retired. By your logic, Michelangelo and Leonardo Da Vinci were always retired because they did artwork that they loved and it doesn't matter that they were paid.
I don't get it about the argument of whether retired or not. If somebody claims that he is retired, so what? Good for him.
Why does it make you upset? That is his problem to sort out. There are many other things in the world to worry about?

mptfan
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Re: Anyone disenchanted with retirement?

Post by mptfan » Sat Aug 24, 2019 6:41 am

MathIsMyWayr wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 11:09 pm
I don't get it about the argument of whether retired or not. If somebody claims that he is retired, so what? Good for him.
Why does it make you upset?
It does not make me upset.

Candor
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Re: Anyone disenchanted with retirement?

Post by Candor » Sat Aug 24, 2019 8:54 am

Now that we've cleared that up should I include my house in my net worth?

tibbitts
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Re: Anyone disenchanted with retirement?

Post by tibbitts » Sat Aug 24, 2019 9:19 am

22twain wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 1:31 pm
mptfan wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 9:34 am
I find this to be a disturbing trend in our society...words mean whatever each person thinks they mean, it's how you feel or think that matters.
This actually goes back quite a while:
"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less."

"The question is," said Alice, "whether you can make words mean so many different things."

"The question is," said Humpty Dumpty, "which is to be master—that's all."
-- Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass (1872)
:wink:

My wife officially retired from her full-time college faculty position several years ago, and received the college's early-retirement benefits. However, she continues to teach one or two courses per semester as an adjunct, for at most a quarter of her final full-time salary, and no benefits. She calls herself "technically retired."
I don't see the advantage here because you are entirely locked into the semester schedule, which means literally that you can only travel or do many other activities at the worst possible times of the year.

BuddyJet
Posts: 344
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Re: Anyone disenchanted with retirement?

Post by BuddyJet » Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:51 am

tibbitts wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 9:19 am
22twain wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 1:31 pm


My wife officially retired from her full-time college faculty position several years ago, and received the college's early-retirement benefits. However, she continues to teach one or two courses per semester as an adjunct, for at most a quarter of her final full-time salary, and no benefits. She calls herself "technically retired."
I don't see the advantage here because you are entirely locked into the semester schedule, which means literally that you can only travel or do many other activities at the worst possible times of the year.
My retirement was unplanned when illness forced a sale of our company. I was a workaholic with minimal hobbies so the transition was rough.

I'd love to be able to keep doing the work I liked at a lower level like tibbitts wife to keep active but not stressed and allow time for other activities to grow. In time, she might give up the adjunct job to travel or pursue other things or maybe not. The advantage is she gets to decide how to make the transition rather than an abrupt change. She might even go back to full time. Transitions run both directions.
People say nothing is impossible. I do nothing all day.

TravelforFun
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Re: Anyone disenchanted with retirement?

Post by TravelforFun » Sat Aug 24, 2019 11:41 am

Candor wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 8:54 am
Now that we've cleared that up should I include my house in my net worth?
Haha. This is how we stir up BHs.

TravelforFun

chuckb84
Posts: 330
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Location: New Mexico

Re: Anyone disenchanted with retirement?

Post by chuckb84 » Sat Aug 24, 2019 11:57 am

Four and a half years into retirement, and I love it. Some things:

1. My schedule is MY schedule. I may have read it here, "I do what I want, when I want, IF I want".
2. Going to movies or shopping when everyone else is at work. Tuesday movies at 2:30 PM!
3. New hobbies, pickle ball, yoga, cycling, two BMW motorcycles, kayaking, hiking, and (trying to....) learning to ski.
4. Many new friends!
5. I still "work", but it is auto repair, motorcycle maintenance, projects around the house. I really enjoy having the time to do all those things RIGHT, even if I spend 4 times as long as a "professional".
6. Rising to see the sunrise. And then seeing the sunset the same day. Not even sleep the night before? That's what naps are for.
7.My sense of time is now governed by events (visitors, trips, etc) and seasons, not an artificial "calendar".

In hindsight the funniest thing anyone ever said to me about retirement is "What will you do with all your time?". I feel busier than ever.

22twain
Posts: 2386
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Re: Anyone disenchanted with retirement?

Post by 22twain » Sat Aug 24, 2019 1:58 pm

tibbitts wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 9:19 am
22twain wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 1:31 pm
My wife officially retired from her full-time college faculty position several years ago, and received the college's early-retirement benefits. However, she continues to teach one or two courses per semester as an adjunct, for at most a quarter of her final full-time salary, and no benefits. She calls herself "technically retired."
I don't see the advantage here because you are entirely locked into the semester schedule, which means literally that you can only travel or do many other activities at the worst possible times of the year.
Agreed for joint travel. At least it's no worse than when we were both teaching full time. Fortunately, she's OK with me traveling solo for hobby-related conventions and other activities, which I've done several times since I retired a couple of years ago. She figures this makes me less likely to drag her along on "odd" stops or detours when we're traveling together. :wink:
My investing princiPLEs do not include absolutely preserving princiPAL.

Jags4186
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Re: Anyone disenchanted with retirement?

Post by Jags4186 » Sat Aug 24, 2019 2:02 pm

I can’t wait to be in a position to be disappointed with retirement.

shell921
Posts: 398
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Re: Anyone disenchanted with retirement?

Post by shell921 » Sat Aug 24, 2019 3:44 pm

chuckb84 wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 11:57 am
Four and a half years into retirement, and I love it. Some things:

1. My schedule is MY schedule. I may have read it here, "I do what I want, when I want, IF I want".
2. Going to movies or shopping when everyone else is at work. Tuesday movies at 2:30 PM!
3. New hobbies, pickle ball, yoga, cycling, two BMW motorcycles, kayaking, hiking, and (trying to....) learning to ski.
4. Many new friends!
5. I still "work", but it is auto repair, motorcycle maintenance, projects around the house. I really enjoy having the time to do all those things RIGHT, even if I spend 4 times as long as a "professional".
6. Rising to see the sunrise. And then seeing the sunset the same day. Not even sleep the night before? That's what naps are for.
7.My sense of time is now governed by events (visitors, trips, etc) and seasons, not an artificial "calendar".

In hindsight the funniest thing anyone ever said to me about retirement is "What will you do with all your time?". I feel busier than ever.
YES !!! I am retired 16 years and wonder how I found the time to WORK!

here is why :
1. My schedule is MY schedule.
2. Going shopping / movies / the park when everyone else is at work.
3. New hobbies - tai chi, learning to draw, volunteering, dancing lessons & yoga !
4. Made NEW friends!
5. Enjoying having the time to do many things RIGHT.
6. Waking up before sunrise.
7.No artificial "calendar"...my time is mine to do as I wish !
8. More time to read and write.

flyingaway
Posts: 2702
Joined: Fri Jan 17, 2014 10:19 am

Re: Anyone disenchanted with retirement?

Post by flyingaway » Sat Aug 24, 2019 6:00 pm

22twain wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 1:31 pm
mptfan wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 9:34 am
I find this to be a disturbing trend in our society...words mean whatever each person thinks they mean, it's how you feel or think that matters.
This actually goes back quite a while:
"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less."

"The question is," said Alice, "whether you can make words mean so many different things."

"The question is," said Humpty Dumpty, "which is to be master—that's all."
-- Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass (1872)
:wink:

My wife officially retired from her full-time college faculty position several years ago, and received the college's early-retirement benefits. However, she continues to teach one or two courses per semester as an adjunct, for at most a quarter of her final full-time salary, and no benefits. She calls herself "technically retired."
I wonder how many courses she taught before retirement. My understanding is that I would teach one year as a regular faculty than teach two years as an adjunct faculty.

HeartinAK
Posts: 24
Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2016 12:54 pm

Re: Anyone disenchanted with retirement?

Post by HeartinAK » Sat Aug 24, 2019 6:02 pm

When I "retire" I plan to do it by the definition:

re·tired
/rəˈtī(ə)rd/
Learn to pronounce
adjective
1.
having left one's job and ceased to work.

:)

CheCha54
Posts: 30
Joined: Sat Nov 11, 2017 11:21 am

Re: Anyone disenchanted with retirement?

Post by CheCha54 » Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:52 pm

According to Mark Twain, "work is what the body is obliged to do and play is what the body is not obliged to do." I don't think getting paid has anything to do with it.

User avatar
Artful Dodger
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Re: Anyone disenchanted with retirement?

Post by Artful Dodger » Sun Aug 25, 2019 7:18 am

supersecretname wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 11:31 am
ah, yes, the Internet Retirement Police
https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2013/02 ... nt-police/
From the article - "You see, if you save money by doing your own cooking, you’re now WORKING as a cook, thus no longer retired."

:D

smitcat
Posts: 5601
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:51 am

Re: Anyone disenchanted with retirement?

Post by smitcat » Sun Aug 25, 2019 7:24 am

Artful Dodger wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 7:18 am
supersecretname wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 11:31 am
ah, yes, the Internet Retirement Police
https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2013/02 ... nt-police/
From the article - "You see, if you save money by doing your own cooking, you’re now WORKING as a cook, thus no longer retired."

:D
I guess if you manage your own money you are working as a FA and are similarly categorized !!

User avatar
Artful Dodger
Posts: 907
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 12:56 pm

Re: Anyone disenchanted with retirement?

Post by Artful Dodger » Sun Aug 25, 2019 7:30 am

smitcat wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 7:24 am
Artful Dodger wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 7:18 am
supersecretname wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 11:31 am
ah, yes, the Internet Retirement Police
https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2013/02 ... nt-police/
From the article - "You see, if you save money by doing your own cooking, you’re now WORKING as a cook, thus no longer retired."

:D
I guess if you manage your own money you are working as a FA and are similarly categorized !!
You got it!

"The IRP would like you to take this to its extreme logical conclusions, e.g. you’re working as a money manager if you handle your own investments, you’re working as a gardener if you mow your own lawn, you’re working as a chauffeur if you don’t hire a driver, you’re a pro-blogger if you have a blog, and so on."

mptfan
Posts: 5995
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2007 9:58 am

Re: Anyone disenchanted with retirement?

Post by mptfan » Sun Aug 25, 2019 10:21 am

Artful Dodger wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 7:30 am
smitcat wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 7:24 am
Artful Dodger wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 7:18 am
supersecretname wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 11:31 am
ah, yes, the Internet Retirement Police
https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2013/02 ... nt-police/
From the article - "You see, if you save money by doing your own cooking, you’re now WORKING as a cook, thus no longer retired."

:D
I guess if you manage your own money you are working as a FA and are similarly categorized !!
You got it!

"The IRP would like you to take this to its extreme logical conclusions, e.g. you’re working as a money manager if you handle your own investments, you’re working as a gardener if you mow your own lawn, you’re working as a chauffeur if you don’t hire a driver, you’re a pro-blogger if you have a blog, and so on."
Nope, not correct. This is really not that complicated... if you save money by doing your own lawn or driving yourself somewhere, that is not the same thing as getting paid to do your own lawn. Geesh people, it really is not complicated. Saving money by doing something yourself is not the same thing as getting paid to do the same thing. And doing a hobby is not working just because that same activity may be a job for someone else. Why do some people insist in making it so complicated?

:oops:

User avatar
Artful Dodger
Posts: 907
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 12:56 pm

Re: Anyone disenchanted with retirement?

Post by Artful Dodger » Sun Aug 25, 2019 12:04 pm

mptfan wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 10:21 am
Artful Dodger wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 7:30 am
smitcat wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 7:24 am
Artful Dodger wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 7:18 am
supersecretname wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 11:31 am
ah, yes, the Internet Retirement Police
https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2013/02 ... nt-police/
From the article - "You see, if you save money by doing your own cooking, you’re now WORKING as a cook, thus no longer retired."

:D
I guess if you manage your own money you are working as a FA and are similarly categorized !!
You got it!

"The IRP would like you to take this to its extreme logical conclusions, e.g. you’re working as a money manager if you handle your own investments, you’re working as a gardener if you mow your own lawn, you’re working as a chauffeur if you don’t hire a driver, you’re a pro-blogger if you have a blog, and so on."
Nope, not correct. This is really not that complicated... if you save money by doing your own lawn or driving yourself somewhere, that is not the same thing as getting paid to do your own lawn. Geesh people, it really is not complicated. Saving money by doing something yourself is not the same thing as getting paid to do the same thing. And doing a hobby is not working just because that same activity may be a job for someone else. Why do some people insist in making it so complicated?

:oops:
:shock:
Wow. You said complicated three times.
It was meant to be humorous.

smitcat
Posts: 5601
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:51 am

Re: Anyone disenchanted with retirement?

Post by smitcat » Sun Aug 25, 2019 1:10 pm

mptfan wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 10:21 am
Artful Dodger wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 7:30 am
smitcat wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 7:24 am
Artful Dodger wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 7:18 am
supersecretname wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 11:31 am
ah, yes, the Internet Retirement Police
https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2013/02 ... nt-police/
From the article - "You see, if you save money by doing your own cooking, you’re now WORKING as a cook, thus no longer retired."

:D
I guess if you manage your own money you are working as a FA and are similarly categorized !!
You got it!

"The IRP would like you to take this to its extreme logical conclusions, e.g. you’re working as a money manager if you handle your own investments, you’re working as a gardener if you mow your own lawn, you’re working as a chauffeur if you don’t hire a driver, you’re a pro-blogger if you have a blog, and so on."
Nope, not correct. This is really not that complicated... if you save money by doing your own lawn or driving yourself somewhere, that is not the same thing as getting paid to do your own lawn. Geesh people, it really is not complicated. Saving money by doing something yourself is not the same thing as getting paid to do the same thing. And doing a hobby is not working just because that same activity may be a job for someone else. Why do some people insist in making it so complicated?

:oops:
What about if I rent or lease something?
What about if I volunteer and it gives me a pension?

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