"Sharing" Internet/WiFi with neighbors?

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dm200
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"Sharing" Internet/WiFi with neighbors?

Post by dm200 » Sun Jan 07, 2018 10:28 am

On my smartphone, I notice several neighbors' WiFi names. Are there any prohibitions or legalities with neighbors sharing WiFi access? In the right circumstances, seems like several neighbors could save on Internet fees by such "sharing".

KlangFool
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Re: "Sharing" Internet/WiFi with neighbors?

Post by KlangFool » Sun Jan 07, 2018 10:32 am

dm200 wrote:
Sun Jan 07, 2018 10:28 am
On my smartphone, I notice several neighbors' WiFi names. Are there any prohibitions or legalities with neighbors sharing WiFi access? In the right circumstances, seems like several neighbors could save on Internet fees by such "sharing".
dm200,

A) In the standard T&C of your Internet service, you are not allowed to resell your Internet service. And, you probably need a license or something in order to resell Internet Service and be an Internet Service Provider.

B) If somebody did something illegal on your Internet connection, you might be liable for their action too.

KlangFool

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FrugalInvestor
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Re: "Sharing" Internet/WiFi with neighbors?

Post by FrugalInvestor » Sun Jan 07, 2018 10:33 am

Concise article on the subject here.....

https://www.pcworld.com/article/2079506 ... uldnt.html

From the article:
You can do this, and depending on your homes' geography, it might even be relatively easy. I'm going to tell you how to do it, but I'm also going to tell you why you probably shouldn't.
And yes, according to the article it could violate your agreement with your internet provider but there are other more practical reasons to be careful as well.
Last edited by FrugalInvestor on Sun Jan 07, 2018 10:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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PFInterest
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Re: "Sharing" Internet/WiFi with neighbors?

Post by PFInterest » Sun Jan 07, 2018 10:33 am

dm200 wrote:
Sun Jan 07, 2018 10:28 am
On my smartphone, I notice several neighbors' WiFi names. Are there any prohibitions or legalities with neighbors sharing WiFi access? In the right circumstances, seems like several neighbors could save on Internet fees by such "sharing".
you have to really know your neighbors. anyone with access can monitor the others usage. bank accounts, etc....

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Re: "Sharing" Internet/WiFi with neighbors?

Post by Blueskies123 » Sun Jan 07, 2018 10:36 am

This is such a bad idea.

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Re: "Sharing" Internet/WiFi with neighbors?

Post by Angelus359 » Sun Jan 07, 2018 10:38 am

Hacking your bank account is far less likely than you would think because banks are required to use TLS/https encryption.

Public WiFi is dangerous because your dns can be hijacked but if you go to a hijacked dns entry for your bank, the cert won't match and you'll get warnings.

A cool trick is in chrome, chrome://flags you can mark non https sites as actively "not secure"

It does leave you more vulnerable to phishing with fake sites like Faacebook.com but that's about it.

So long as you use a unique password everywhere that's not a problem. I highly recommend a password manager. I use LastPass.

As to liability, it's possible for the ISP to try to blame you, but it's been proven in court that IP does not equal identity. It's just a starting point for police investigations
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Re: "Sharing" Internet/WiFi with neighbors?

Post by Raymond » Sun Jan 07, 2018 10:48 am

Angelus359 wrote:
Sun Jan 07, 2018 10:38 am
...As to liability, it's possible for the ISP to try to blame you, but it's been proven in court that IP does not equal identity. It's just a starting point for police investigations
That is true, but I would not like to be "a starting point for police investigations" if a neighbor I was sharing the WiFi with was doing questionable things on the internet.

He can be his own starting point :twisted:
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Re: "Sharing" Internet/WiFi with neighbors?

Post by shootmenow » Sun Jan 07, 2018 11:02 am

I live in a condo building with 8 units. I compelled my neighbors to get a business internet line under the associations name. The line comes into the building where we have a switch and then goes to each unit. Each unit has their own wireless router.

I'm pretty sure RCN knew what we were requesting the internet line for but didn't care. We have been sharing a 150Mb connection for $160/month among 8 units and have had no issues for over a year.

I would only do it if I had a good relationship with your neighbors.

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Re: "Sharing" Internet/WiFi with neighbors?

Post by Alexa9 » Sun Jan 07, 2018 11:05 am

Very common in apartments as long as you pay promptly. Otherwise the password tends to change. The signal can reach many people. With homes, I would imagine the signal wouldn't reach far enough for more than a few homes.

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dm200
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Re: "Sharing" Internet/WiFi with neighbors?

Post by dm200 » Sun Jan 07, 2018 11:11 am

KlangFool wrote:
Sun Jan 07, 2018 10:32 am
dm200 wrote:
Sun Jan 07, 2018 10:28 am
On my smartphone, I notice several neighbors' WiFi names. Are there any prohibitions or legalities with neighbors sharing WiFi access? In the right circumstances, seems like several neighbors could save on Internet fees by such "sharing".
dm200,
A) In the standard T&C of your Internet service, you are not allowed to resell your Internet service. And, you probably need a license or something in order to resell Internet Service and be an Internet Service Provider.
B) If somebody did something illegal on your Internet connection, you might be liable for their action too.
KlangFool
I suspect there may be a difference between "reselling" and sharing the costs.
I would only do it if I had a good relationship with your neighbors.
Absolutely!!

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Re: "Sharing" Internet/WiFi with neighbors?

Post by KlangFool » Sun Jan 07, 2018 11:31 am

dm200 wrote:
Sun Jan 07, 2018 11:11 am
KlangFool wrote:
Sun Jan 07, 2018 10:32 am
dm200 wrote:
Sun Jan 07, 2018 10:28 am
On my smartphone, I notice several neighbors' WiFi names. Are there any prohibitions or legalities with neighbors sharing WiFi access? In the right circumstances, seems like several neighbors could save on Internet fees by such "sharing".
dm200,
A) In the standard T&C of your Internet service, you are not allowed to resell your Internet service. And, you probably need a license or something in order to resell Internet Service and be an Internet Service Provider.
B) If somebody did something illegal on your Internet connection, you might be liable for their action too.
KlangFool
I suspect there may be a difference between "reselling" and sharing the costs.
dm200,

If you collect money from your neighbor, you are reselling your service.

KlangFool

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Re: "Sharing" Internet/WiFi with neighbors?

Post by KlangFool » Sun Jan 07, 2018 11:33 am

shootmenow wrote:
Sun Jan 07, 2018 11:02 am
I live in a condo building with 8 units. I compelled my neighbors to get a business internet line under the associations name. The line comes into the building where we have a switch and then goes to each unit. Each unit has their own wireless router.

I'm pretty sure RCN knew what we were requesting the internet line for but didn't care. We have been sharing a 150Mb connection for $160/month among 8 units and have had no issues for over a year.

I would only do it if I had a good relationship with your neighbors.
shootmenow,

The term and condition for Business Internet Line are different from the home Internet service. What you did is allowable under the business Internet service.

KlangFool

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Re: "Sharing" Internet/WiFi with neighbors?

Post by oldcomputerguy » Sun Jan 07, 2018 11:40 am

The courts are abounding right now with lawsuits alleging copyright infringement resulting from downloading of porn movies, and the primary modus operandi seems to be matching an IP address to the accused infringer, then depending on the accused to pay a settlement to avoid public humiliation. If your neighbor uses your wifi to download something illegal (porn or other), then you are open to being targeted by such lawsuits, even if you're not aware of such sharing. This is why I lock down my home wifi service as hard as I possibly can, not only for security's sake but to minimize liability and exposure to such lawsuits.

Not only that, if your service is shared by a neighbor and they download huge amounts of data, it counts against your bandwidth allotment, which may (depending on terms of service) result in you getting a whopping bill for data overages.
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Re: "Sharing" Internet/WiFi with neighbors?

Post by Doom&Gloom » Sun Jan 07, 2018 12:47 pm

I generally think most posters on BH are far more conservative than I am, but in this case I would be concerned about someone knocking on my door with a warrant to search for kiddie porn.

Even if the risk of that is slight, I prefer to sleep soundly.

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Re: "Sharing" Internet/WiFi with neighbors?

Post by ncbill » Sun Jan 07, 2018 4:03 pm

Raymond wrote:
Sun Jan 07, 2018 10:48 am
Angelus359 wrote:
Sun Jan 07, 2018 10:38 am
...As to liability, it's possible for the ISP to try to blame you, but it's been proven in court that IP does not equal identity. It's just a starting point for police investigations
That is true, but I would not like to be "a starting point for police investigations" if a neighbor I was sharing the WiFi with was doing questionable things on the internet.
Neighbor's kid is a registered sex offender for something they did online.

And part of that when they served the search warrant was sticking the kid, in handcuffs, in the back of a patrol car for over an hour while they searched all the computers in the home...

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Re: "Sharing" Internet/WiFi with neighbors?

Post by MrJones » Sun Jan 07, 2018 4:11 pm

KlangFool wrote:
Sun Jan 07, 2018 11:31 am
dm200 wrote:
Sun Jan 07, 2018 11:11 am
KlangFool wrote:
Sun Jan 07, 2018 10:32 am
dm200 wrote:
Sun Jan 07, 2018 10:28 am
On my smartphone, I notice several neighbors' WiFi names. Are there any prohibitions or legalities with neighbors sharing WiFi access? In the right circumstances, seems like several neighbors could save on Internet fees by such "sharing".
dm200,
A) In the standard T&C of your Internet service, you are not allowed to resell your Internet service. And, you probably need a license or something in order to resell Internet Service and be an Internet Service Provider.
B) If somebody did something illegal on your Internet connection, you might be liable for their action too.
KlangFool
I suspect there may be a difference between "reselling" and sharing the costs.
dm200,

If you collect money from your neighbor, you are reselling your service.

KlangFool
KlangFool, that's a pretty strong and bold statement to make. It sounds like you're providing legal definitions and interpretations. Which is very different from sharing your experiences or pointing to a reference. I'd refrain from handing out legal advice (or what sounds like it) of this sort if I were you, unless of course you have a license to do so and have passed the bar in the OP's state and so on.

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Re: "Sharing" Internet/WiFi with neighbors?

Post by MrJones » Sun Jan 07, 2018 4:13 pm

KlangFool wrote:
Sun Jan 07, 2018 11:33 am
shootmenow wrote:
Sun Jan 07, 2018 11:02 am
I live in a condo building with 8 units. I compelled my neighbors to get a business internet line under the associations name. The line comes into the building where we have a switch and then goes to each unit. Each unit has their own wireless router.

I'm pretty sure RCN knew what we were requesting the internet line for but didn't care. We have been sharing a 150Mb connection for $160/month among 8 units and have had no issues for over a year.

I would only do it if I had a good relationship with your neighbors.
shootmenow,

The term and condition for Business Internet Line are different from the home Internet service. What you did is allowable under the business Internet service.

KlangFool
Did you read the OP's specific internet contract? And their home association's legal charter? And all applicable state and federal laws? And all precedents set by local, state and federal courts? Court decisions that nullify existing contract terms? Pending cases? Injunctions? It's quite difficult to make the conclusion you did without all of that and more, I'd imagine.
Last edited by MrJones on Sun Jan 07, 2018 4:27 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: "Sharing" Internet/WiFi with neighbors?

Post by KlangFool » Sun Jan 07, 2018 4:18 pm

MrJones wrote:
Sun Jan 07, 2018 4:13 pm
KlangFool wrote:
Sun Jan 07, 2018 11:33 am
shootmenow wrote:
Sun Jan 07, 2018 11:02 am
I live in a condo building with 8 units. I compelled my neighbors to get a business internet line under the associations name. The line comes into the building where we have a switch and then goes to each unit. Each unit has their own wireless router.

I'm pretty sure RCN knew what we were requesting the internet line for but didn't care. We have been sharing a 150Mb connection for $160/month among 8 units and have had no issues for over a year.

I would only do it if I had a good relationship with your neighbors.
shootmenow,

The term and condition for Business Internet Line are different from the home Internet service. What you did is allowable under the business Internet service.

KlangFool
Did you read the OP's specific internet contract? And their home association's legal charter? And all applicable state and federal laws? It's quite difficult to make the conclusion you did without all of that, I'd imagine.
MrJones,

I am speaking from the standpoint of a typical Internet Service Provider.

KlangFool

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dm200
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Re: "Sharing" Internet/WiFi with neighbors?

Post by dm200 » Sun Jan 07, 2018 4:18 pm

ncbill wrote:
Sun Jan 07, 2018 4:03 pm
Raymond wrote:
Sun Jan 07, 2018 10:48 am
Angelus359 wrote:
Sun Jan 07, 2018 10:38 am
...As to liability, it's possible for the ISP to try to blame you, but it's been proven in court that IP does not equal identity. It's just a starting point for police investigations
That is true, but I would not like to be "a starting point for police investigations" if a neighbor I was sharing the WiFi with was doing questionable things on the internet.
Neighbor's kid is a registered sex offender for something they did online.
And part of that when they served the search warrant was sticking the kid, in handcuffs, in the back of a patrol car for over an hour while they searched all the computers in the home...
Sounds like an episode "ripped from the headlines" of one of my favorite TV series - Law and Order SVU

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Re: "Sharing" Internet/WiFi with neighbors?

Post by MrJones » Sun Jan 07, 2018 4:22 pm

dm200 wrote:
Sun Jan 07, 2018 10:28 am
On my smartphone, I notice several neighbors' WiFi names. Are there any prohibitions or legalities with neighbors sharing WiFi access? In the right circumstances, seems like several neighbors could save on Internet fees by such "sharing".
Can't say I know what all the legal ramifications are, if even there are any, but I did this for over a decade, on both sides of the sharing with no problems.

Eons ago, when DSL first came out, an awesome neighbor bought extra wifi routers and set them up and notified all his neighbors that they were welcome to use his connection for free. Not only did I get fast internet, but I learned how to be a great neighbor, and foster strong social and community trust and relationships too.

The key as someone pointed out is to have a good relationship with your neighbors. And sharing anything (except the 'flu :)) can start and sustain such a relationship and trust. Good luck!
Last edited by MrJones on Sun Jan 07, 2018 6:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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dm200
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Re: "Sharing" Internet/WiFi with neighbors?

Post by dm200 » Sun Jan 07, 2018 4:25 pm

dm200,
If you collect money from your neighbor, you are reselling your service.
KlangFool
If my adult child lives in my house and pays part of the Cable TV, gas, electric and water bills (but not rent) - am I a landlord?
BUT - who knows??

How about my wife and I having our smart phones on our adult son's "family" Sprint plan and we give him $75 per month as out share? Is he "reselling" the Sprint cell phone service? He lives in a different, but nearby, locality.

... and so on??

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Re: "Sharing" Internet/WiFi with neighbors?

Post by KlangFool » Sun Jan 07, 2018 4:35 pm

MrJones wrote:
Sun Jan 07, 2018 4:11 pm
KlangFool wrote:
Sun Jan 07, 2018 11:31 am
dm200 wrote:
Sun Jan 07, 2018 11:11 am
KlangFool wrote:
Sun Jan 07, 2018 10:32 am
dm200 wrote:
Sun Jan 07, 2018 10:28 am
On my smartphone, I notice several neighbors' WiFi names. Are there any prohibitions or legalities with neighbors sharing WiFi access? In the right circumstances, seems like several neighbors could save on Internet fees by such "sharing".
dm200,
A) In the standard T&C of your Internet service, you are not allowed to resell your Internet service. And, you probably need a license or something in order to resell Internet Service and be an Internet Service Provider.
B) If somebody did something illegal on your Internet connection, you might be liable for their action too.
KlangFool
I suspect there may be a difference between "reselling" and sharing the costs.
dm200,

If you collect money from your neighbor, you are reselling your service.

KlangFool
KlangFool, that's a pretty strong and bold statement to make. It sounds like you're providing legal definitions and interpretations. Which is very different from sharing your experiences or pointing to a reference. I'd refrain from handing out legal advice (or what sounds like it) of this sort if I were you, unless of course you have a license to do so and have passed the bar in the OP's state and so on.
MrJones,

You have a valid point. Here you go. An example of T&C of consumer Internet service.

http://www.verizon.com/about/sites/defa ... NGLISH.pdf
<< Restrictions on Use.
The Service is a consumer grade service and is not designed for or intended to be
used for any commercial purpose. Except as otherwise set forth in this Agreement, you may not resell,
re-provision or rent the Service, (either for a fee or without charge) or allow third parties to use the
Service via wired, wireless or other means. For example, you may not provide Internet access to third
parties through a wired or wireless connection or use the Service to facilitate public Internet access
(such as through a Wi-Fi hotspot), use it for high volume purposes, or engage in similar activities that
constitute such use (commercial or non-commercial).
If you subscribe to a Broadband Service, you may
connect multiple computers/devices within a single home to your modem and/or router to access the
Service through a single Verizon-issued IP address, and if available through the Service, you may permit
guests to access the Internet through your Service’s Wi-Fi capabilities. You also may not exceed the
bandwidth usage limitations that Verizon may establish from time to time for the Service, or use the
Service to host any type of server. Violation of this Section may result in bandwidth restrictions on your
Service or suspension or termination of your Service. >>

KlangFool

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Re: "Sharing" Internet/WiFi with neighbors?

Post by MrJones » Sun Jan 07, 2018 5:01 pm

KlangFool wrote:
Sun Jan 07, 2018 4:35 pm

MrJones,

You have a valid point. Here you go. An example of T&C of consumer Internet service.
That's probably much more useful, thanks!
Of course, there's no such thing as a typical contract in these cases. It's going to vary widely across states and jurisdictions. Given that, one has to question the value of interpretations based on one. Regardless, I agree it's valuable to read the terms and conditions to get at least a crude and simple understanding But the reason lawyers even exist and spend many years in school is to interpret these terms and conditions in the context of applicable laws and court precedents.

For example, with what you posted,
What is the definition of a third party?
What is the definition of public use?
What are the exceptions?
What is the definition of a single home?
What are the legal definitions of rent resell and reprovision?

Perhaps even more importantly, what are the laws and court decisions that may nullify or otherwise affect the interpretation of these?

On the practical side, whom are Verizon likely to actually sue over these?

I'm sure an actual lawyer with expertise in this area of law would come up with a ton more issues. And that's whom I'd consult if I wanted meaningful answers to any of these questions.

The point here is, it's easy to bring out the legal bogeyman and scare someone on the internet. But it's a ton harder to actually determine the degree of practical truth involved in any of it.

Anyway, OP, didn't mean to derail this thread. I suspect you were more interested in hearing people's experiences perhaps, and mine are above.
Last edited by MrJones on Sun Jan 07, 2018 5:39 pm, edited 3 times in total.

wrongfunds
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Re: "Sharing" Internet/WiFi with neighbors?

Post by wrongfunds » Sun Jan 07, 2018 5:26 pm

I would like moderators to be more involved when seemingly non-kosher things are being asked about or encouraged e.g. I expect "Can I share my copy of TurboTax CD with my neighbors on the block to save money" type of question to be immediately shut down and rightfully so.

what is different about this topic?

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Re: "Sharing" Internet/WiFi with neighbors?

Post by Yooper » Sun Jan 07, 2018 5:36 pm

In which case, utilize the nifty little exclamation point icon in the upper right hand corner of a post you feel should be called to the attention of moderators and they'll review. That's what it's there for.

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Re: "Sharing" Internet/WiFi with neighbors?

Post by cherijoh » Sun Jan 07, 2018 5:50 pm

MrJones wrote:
Sun Jan 07, 2018 5:01 pm
KlangFool wrote:
Sun Jan 07, 2018 4:35 pm

MrJones,

You have a valid point. Here you go. An example of T&C of consumer Internet service.
Of course, there's no such thing as a typical contract in these cases. It's going to vary widely across states and jurisdictions. Given that, one has to question the value of making bold statements based on the perhaps mistaken notion of a typical contract.

Even ignoring that, as much as it is valuable to read the terms and conditions to get at least a crude and simple understanding, the reason lawyers even exist and spend many years in school is to interpret these terms and conditions in the context of applicable laws and court precedents.

For example, with what you posted,
What is the definition of a third party?
What is the definition of public use?
What are the exceptions?
What is the definition of a single home?
What are the legal definitions of rent resell and reprovision?

Perhaps even more importantly, what are the laws and Court decisions that may nullify or otherwise affect the interpretation of these?

On the practical side, whom are Verizon likely to actually sue over these?

I'm sure an actual lawyer with expertise in this area of law would come up with a ton more issues. And that's whom I'd consult if I wanted meaningful answers to any of these questions.

The point here is, it's easy to bring out the legal bogeyman and scare someone on the internet. But it's a ton harder to actually determine the degree of truth involved in any of it.
How about this analogy. If you go to a restaurant and order off the menu, they don't really care who is eating the food and you can share all you like or take the left overs home. If you go the buffet restaurant and order one buffet, they will be rightly peeved if two people are sharing but paying for only one order or if you try to take a second meal home in a doggie bag.

If you have a Friends & Family cell plan that covers up to 5 phones and has a monthly cap on minutes and data, then they really don't give a flip who you put on your plan. You are paying for what you are getting.

If the internet service would have let you cover your 17 year old son, then it probably doesn't care that you are trying to encourage your 27 year old son to move out by making him pay for some of his expenses - even if you call it "$25/month for internet".

But why would anyone think it was ethical to piggy back off of a neighbor to gain a service for which you would otherwise be expected to pay. FYI _ board rules prohibit the discussion of anything illegal and it really doesn't matter whether or not you are likely to get caught!

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Re: "Sharing" Internet/WiFi with neighbors?

Post by mariezzz » Sun Jan 07, 2018 5:51 pm

I've read many posts, in many threads, where people offer interpretations of laws (tax laws & otherwise), in response to questions people ask.

If it is ok to describe how to do a back-door Roth & the considerations there, or to discuss tax laws related to 401k contribution limits, how is that different from someone discussing the typical ISP's T&C's for residential accounts and expressing concerns about how people might violate them?

Of course, without knowing the specifics of a given contract, one cannot say for certain that sharing an account would be a violation of the terms under which the service is provided.
Last edited by mariezzz on Sun Jan 07, 2018 5:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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dm200
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Re: "Sharing" Internet/WiFi with neighbors?

Post by dm200 » Sun Jan 07, 2018 5:51 pm

wrongfunds wrote:
Sun Jan 07, 2018 5:26 pm
I would like moderators to be more involved when seemingly non-kosher things are being asked about or encouraged e.g. I expect "Can I share my copy of TurboTax CD with my neighbors on the block to save money" type of question to be immediately shut down and rightfully so.
what is different about this topic?
Big difference, in my opinion - since I made the original post. I never proposed doing anything improper or illegal - unless someone claims that I did. In my opinion, you are really overreaching with this.

Suppose you were in my home and I have home wifi. Do you claim that my letting you use wifi in my home would be improper/illegal?

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Re: "Sharing" Internet/WiFi with neighbors?

Post by ccieemeritus » Sun Jan 07, 2018 5:53 pm

Going at this from the technical rather than legal angle.

Lets assume you get a higher bandwidth ISP connection at home (perhaps a Comcast business cable connection in the 100 mbit range).

Just because you can see the neighbors WiFi SSID's in your house, that does not mean you could connect to them throughout your house and get good performance. Your computer can see the "beacons", but associating to the WiFi requires good 2-way communication. WiFi signals, in particular, have short range outdoors. Going through walls to go indoors->outdoors->indoors is particularly rough. When I go out for a walk my cellphone is still "stuck" to the WiFi at home until I go around the corner (5 houses away). But I can't update my podcasts after passing the neighbors driveway.

Even if you successfully connect to or from a neighbors house, you will probably negotiate a lower transmission rate due to the lower signal strength. Consumer WiFi access points (APs) can only transmit to one client at a time. The lower transmission rate will take longer to transmit each KB of data. This means that a few weaker connections will keep the transmitter busy and can degrade the performance for all clients on that hotspot.

I would expect sharing between adjacent apartments to work better. You are going through fewer walls and staying indoors (part of the WiFi signal bounces off the ceiling, giving you a stronger signal).

Most hotels have at least one WiFi AP for every other room.

Moving back to the legal front (I am not a lawyer), I'd be more comfortable using a "business" connection for this sort of thing. A high bandwidth Comcast Business connection serving multiple apartments in one complex is cost effective. But the best technical implementation would have that cable connection go into a network room. You'd have your NAT device and ethernet switch in that room and an ethernet cable running to each apartment. Each apartment would have it's own WiFi AP. This is exactly the way many hotels are setup.

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dm200
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Re: "Sharing" Internet/WiFi with neighbors?

Post by dm200 » Sun Jan 07, 2018 5:53 pm

mariezzz wrote:
Sun Jan 07, 2018 5:51 pm
I've read many posts, in many threads, where people offer interpretations of laws (tax laws & otherwise), in response to questions people ask.
If it is ok to describe how to do a back-door Roth & the considerations there, or to discuss tax laws related to 401k contribution limits, how is that different from someone discussing the typical ISP's T&C's for residential accounts and expressing concerns about how people might violate them?
It also may depend on the details of exactly which provider is involved and what that provider's contract says.

mariezzz
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Re: "Sharing" Internet/WiFi with neighbors?

Post by mariezzz » Sun Jan 07, 2018 6:07 pm

dm200 wrote:
Sun Jan 07, 2018 5:53 pm
mariezzz wrote:
Sun Jan 07, 2018 5:51 pm
I've read many posts, in many threads, where people offer interpretations of laws (tax laws & otherwise), in response to questions people ask.
If it is ok to describe how to do a back-door Roth & the considerations there, or to discuss tax laws related to 401k contribution limits, how is that different from someone discussing the typical ISP's T&C's for residential accounts and expressing concerns about how people might violate them?
It also may depend on the details of exactly which provider is involved and what that provider's contract says.
Absolutely, I agree. As others have said, I'd be very cautious - I don't trust my neighbors anywhere near enough to share with them.

Your OP said
On my smartphone, I notice several neighbors' WiFi names. Are there any prohibitions or legalities with neighbors sharing WiFi access? In the right circumstances, seems like several neighbors could save on Internet fees by such "sharing".
For people with unlimited data on their phones:

https://www.macworld.co.uk/how-to/iphon ... t-3513223/
"It's easy to turn your iPhone into a hotspot, but you may wish to speak to your phone carrier first or at least check your contract's terms and conditions; some networks prefer you not to do this and may charge you extra (or cap your data allowance) if they spot you setting up a hotspot.

And while we're talking about data allowances, this is another thing to bear in mind: if you have a limited allowance you should only use the Wi-Fi hotspot for a short amount of time."

invst65
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Re: "Sharing" Internet/WiFi with neighbors?

Post by invst65 » Sun Jan 07, 2018 6:18 pm

In the early days of home WiFi it was actually very common to be able to connect to somebody else's service. A lot of times there was no password at all and when there was it was often the word "password" because whoever set it up didn't bother to change it from what came out of the router box (and the cable companies were letting you use your own router at the time). When I got my first internet service through a cable provider I used my own router and didn't have it secured with a password. I figured it was very unlikely that a neighbor would be connecting because the signal was too weak to be useful and besides, if they did, what harm could they cause? Being able to access my WiFi doesn't give them any more access to my computer than any other computer on the internet (mostly true, but depends on settings, of course).

Eventually, I got an email from the service provider that spam had been sent from my account and I was going to be quarantined until the problem was addressed. Looking into the router settings I could see that an unknown computer was connected so I not only set up a password but set up MAC filtering (that's a hard-wired low level address common only to the computer from which it comes). Called the service provider and they said it was a common problem but it was rare to find someone like me who understood it and knew how to take care of it.

Next time I got internet service through a cable provider they didn't allow the use of your own modem and made sure it was properly secured before they left. That seems to be the norm today. I used to be able to walk around and find a signal I could connect to at my parents 55+ condo but eventually that became impossible. Had to go to Tim Horton's where they offered free wifi.

wrongfunds
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Re: "Sharing" Internet/WiFi with neighbors?

Post by wrongfunds » Sun Jan 07, 2018 6:27 pm

Suppose you were in my home and I have home wifi. Do you claim that my letting you use wifi in my home would be improper/illegal?
Are you suggesting that "sharing" your internet with your neighbors on the block is similar to this and with a straight face???

Anyway, let us discuss this until it gets locked down by a moderator ...

squirm
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Re: "Sharing" Internet/WiFi with neighbors?

Post by squirm » Sun Jan 07, 2018 6:47 pm

Angelus359 wrote:
Sun Jan 07, 2018 10:38 am

Public WiFi is dangerous because your dns can be hijacked but if you go to a hijacked dns entry for your bank, the cert won't match and you'll get warnings.
Can you explain what you mean by the certs won't match?

Angelus359
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Re: "Sharing" Internet/WiFi with neighbors?

Post by Angelus359 » Sun Jan 07, 2018 7:19 pm

squirm wrote:
Sun Jan 07, 2018 6:47 pm
Angelus359 wrote:
Sun Jan 07, 2018 10:38 am

Public WiFi is dangerous because your dns can be hijacked but if you go to a hijacked dns entry for your bank, the cert won't match and you'll get warnings.
Can you explain what you mean by the certs won't match?
Your browser has public certificate authority certificate. These certificates sign a private key that is tied to a specific domain.

If you don't own the domain, you don't get a ca signed key for that domain.

As such, when someone tries to spoof a domain with https on, your browser will stop you from actually going to the site.
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dm200
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Re: "Sharing" Internet/WiFi with neighbors?

Post by dm200 » Sun Jan 07, 2018 7:21 pm

For people with unlimited data on their phones:

https://www.macworld.co.uk/how-to/iphon ... t-3513223/
"It's easy to turn your iPhone into a hotspot, but you may wish to speak to your phone carrier first or at least check your contract's terms and conditions; some networks prefer you not to do this and may charge you extra (or cap your data allowance) if they spot you setting up a hotspot.
On our new Sprint plan, we get unlimited date, BUT not for a hotspot. The hotspot is limited. A hotspot is a feature of our service and, up to the monthly hotspot limit, part of the regular monthly fee.

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dm200
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Re: "Sharing" Internet/WiFi with neighbors?

Post by dm200 » Sun Jan 07, 2018 7:23 pm

In the early days of home WiFi it was actually very common to be able to connect to somebody else's service. A lot of times there was no password at all and when there was it was often the word "password" because whoever set it up didn't bother to change it from what came out of the router box (and the cable companies were letting you use your own router at the time).
Yes - I did not do this, but back then folks would drive around the neighborhood and find a residential internet connection that had no unique password.

MrJones
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Re: "Sharing" Internet/WiFi with neighbors?

Post by MrJones » Sun Jan 07, 2018 7:29 pm

wrongfunds wrote:
Sun Jan 07, 2018 6:27 pm
Suppose you were in my home and I have home wifi. Do you claim that my letting you use wifi in my home would be improper/illegal?
Are you suggesting that "sharing" your internet with your neighbors on the block is similar to this and with a straight face???
I didn't post that comment, but the poster may have cited that example as an illustration to merely suggest that the legal issue isn't very clear cut, as opposed to equating the two scenarios.

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Re: "Sharing" Internet/WiFi with neighbors?

Post by LadyGeek » Sun Jan 07, 2018 7:30 pm

For the record, discussions of dishonest behavior or bypassing the law are totally unacceptable.

The approach is to educate members on how to do things legally. The OP's question has been answered. Further discussion on legal interpretation is derailing the thread in several directions.

This thread has run its course and is locked (derailed).
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