Want adequate filter to discharge clothes drier indoors

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Bongleur
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Want adequate filter to discharge clothes drier indoors

Post by Bongleur »

30 years ago I installed a bypass with a sock filter, but it was a mess. Today its 20 deg & I'm thinking I paid for that heat & humidification...

Anyone know of a kit with a really fine filter train, maybe a vortex system like on the vacuum cleaners?
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FraggleRock
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discharge clothes dryer indoors

Post by FraggleRock »

Buy a new dryer.
Heat pump condensing.
Examples https://www.ajmadison.com/b.php/Ventles ... /N~39+1177
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Bongleur
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Re: Want adequate filter to discharge clothes drier indoors

Post by Bongleur »

$1200 bucks for a toaster with a fan attached? That's insane.
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Bongleur
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Re: Want adequate filter to discharge clothes drier indoors

Post by Bongleur »

And without any duct, you are paying to remove all that humidity & cool all that heat in the summer time using your air conditioning system. That's just STUPID.
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Re: Want adequate filter to discharge clothes drier indoors

Post by Alex Frakt »

I live in a condo where we aren't allowed to vent our dryers into the building vent system. So I mostly hang dry my clothes on Ikea racks. As a bonus the clothes last a lot longer. When I do have to use the dryer, I have one of the vent buckets that you have to keep water in to trap the lint. Like this one: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000DZFTC6/
Dudley
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Re: Want adequate filter to discharge clothes drier indoors

Post by Dudley »

Yes, just hang them on a rack indoors (over a heat vent if accessible).
Doesn't waste energy, on dry cool winter dries fast and adds much needed humidity, and its saves wear and tear on the fabric. In summer just hang them outside.
IowaFarmBoy
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Re: Want adequate filter to discharge clothes drier indoors

Post by IowaFarmBoy »

I'm sure everyone has thought of this but just in case....

Inside venting should only be considered for ELECTRIC dryers. A GAS dryer (like ours) needs to be vented outside for obvious reasons.

Mr Obvious will sign off now.
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Bongleur
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Re: Want adequate filter to discharge clothes drier indoors

Post by Bongleur »

>
, I have one of the vent buckets that you have to keep water in to trap the lint. Like this one: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000DZFTC6/
>

Seems like a small volume to handle all that air. About a gallon? Does it have a draincock on the bottom so you can drain the dirty water into the washer drain? It looks like it just blows the air towards the top of the water. That won't capture the very fine particles. Something that would bubble thru, with a HEPA on the end, is more what I need.
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TLC1957
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Re: Want adequate filter to discharge clothes drier indoors

Post by TLC1957 »

IowaFarmBoy wrote: Sun Dec 31, 2017 6:49 am I'm sure everyone has thought of this but just in case....

Inside venting should only be considered for ELECTRIC dryers. A GAS dryer (like ours) needs to be vented outside for obvious reasons.

Mr Obvious will sign off now.
Yep got a gas dryer and do not have one of these

https://www.amazon.com/First-Alert-CO60 ... o+detector

On each floor, add this to the cost of the unvented device. Better yet do not do it!
talzara
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Re: Want adequate filter to discharge clothes drier indoors

Post by talzara »

FraggleRock wrote: Sat Dec 30, 2017 9:41 pm Buy a new dryer.
Heat pump condensing.
Examples https://www.ajmadison.com/b.php/Ventles ... /N~39+1177
Bongleur wrote: Sun Dec 31, 2017 1:06 am $1200 bucks for a toaster with a fan attached? That's insane.
No, a vented electric dryer is a toaster with a fan attached.

A heat pump condensing dryer is an air conditioner turned inside out. It uses half as much electricity as a traditional electric dryer.

It doesn't make economic sense in the U.S. The average American household uses 590 kWh a year drying clothes. At an average of $0.13 per kWh, that's only $77 a year. It will take over 20 years to break even on a $1200 dryer compared to a regular dryer.

In Germany, electricity costs $0.35 per kWh, so they break even in less than 8 years. That's why these dryers are made by Bosch, Miele, and other German companies.
2comma
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Re: Want adequate filter to discharge clothes drier indoors

Post by 2comma »

This idea has been around a long time but I haven't seen "the" solution. I see two issues: it's a lot of moist air, more than any normal house could ever need so you'd need a way to vent some of it out of the house and a way to distribute it equally around the house. Then the air is not clean, lots of tiny pieces of link and water doesn't do a good job of catching them. Like you said you'd need a hepa filter and I bet you'd be cleaning or replacing it frequently. Solve the air distribution and filtering issues and you'd have something but I'd bet the cost of such a system would be more than the savings and that's why "the" solution doesn't exist.
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squirm
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Re: Want adequate filter to discharge clothes drier indoors

Post by squirm »

Assuming it's electric, good luck with humidity. If it's gas, get your will ready.
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Re: Want adequate filter to discharge clothes drier indoors

Post by Alex Frakt »

Bongleur wrote: Sun Dec 31, 2017 10:25 am
I have one of the vent buckets that you have to keep water in to trap the lint. Like this one: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000DZFTC6/
Seems like a small volume to handle all that air. About a gallon? Does it have a draincock on the bottom so you can drain the dirty water into the washer drain? It looks like it just blows the air towards the top of the water. That won't capture the very fine particles. Something that would bubble thru, with a HEPA on the end, is more what I need.
You are correct, It doesn't work well. A bunch of lint gets blown around the laundry room. As I said, I prefer to hang dry my stuff. You recapture the humidity either way, just a matter of the time over which it is released :-)
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Re: Want adequate filter to discharge clothes drier indoors

Post by jeffyscott »

talzara wrote: Sun Dec 31, 2017 12:19 pm A heat pump condensing dryer is an air conditioner turned inside out. It uses half as much electricity as a traditional electric dryer.

It doesn't make economic sense in the U.S. The average American household uses 590 kWh a year drying clothes. At an average of $0.13 per kWh, that's only $77 a year. It will take over 20 years to break even on a $1200 dryer compared to a regular dryer.

In Germany, electricity costs $0.35 per kWh, so they break even in less than 8 years. That's why these dryers are made by Bosch, Miele, and other German companies.
The cheapest one, while it has a small capacity, appears to be around $800:
https://www.ajmadison.com/cgi-bin/ajmad ... 10TIW.html

So maybe more like 10 years to break even?

But if you can have a gas dryer, the energy costs are probably about 1/3 to 1/2 of electric, so annual dryer operation cost would be maybe $25-$40 and it's back to 20 years or more to break even.

Seems like the ventless design might be a sensible choice for a condo with no dryer vent.
GAAP
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Re: Want adequate filter to discharge clothes drier indoors

Post by GAAP »

In some countries, vented dryers are illegal -- since 2012 in Switzerland.

Heat pump dryers are far more efficient, and gentler on clothing -- they just take longer, usually. They also have the advantage of more flexible placement since they only need water and power, using the same drain the washer uses for the moisture they remove from clothing. The ventles design also eliminates the thermal bridge inherent in a vent.

As noted above, venting a dryer indoors has a lot of potential problems, even potentially lethal problems -- do it right (ventless unit) or don't do it at all.
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Re: Want adequate filter to discharge clothes drier indoors

Post by whodidntante »

Bongleur wrote: Sun Dec 31, 2017 1:08 am And without any duct, you are paying to remove all that humidity & cool all that heat in the summer time using your air conditioning system. That's just STUPID.
Countries where ventless driers are used tend not to use air conditioning, or use it less.
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Re: Want adequate filter to discharge clothes drier indoors

Post by jlawrence01 »

whodidntante wrote: Mon Jan 01, 2018 2:36 pm
Bongleur wrote: Sun Dec 31, 2017 1:08 am And without any duct, you are paying to remove all that humidity & cool all that heat in the summer time using your air conditioning system. That's just STUPID.
Countries where ventless driers are used tend not to use air conditioning, or use it less.
I used one in Chicago.

I wanted to add humidity during the heating season and we never used the air conditioner as we rarely needed it.
Last edited by jlawrence01 on Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
GAAP
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Re: Want adequate filter to discharge clothes drier indoors

Post by GAAP »

jlawrence01 wrote: Mon Jan 01, 2018 2:57 pm
I used one in Chicago.

I wanted to add humanity during the heating season and we never used the air conditioner as we rarely needed it.
Surely there are easier ways to add humanity to Chicago? :D

But, you do have a valid point that humidity is a local climatic phenomenon -- quite a bit different between Phoenix and Seattle, for example.

European homes are much more likely to be built to Passivhaus standards which include very stringent air-tightness requirements. A vented-dryer could overwhelm the heating/cooling design for such a building. Those homes probably don't use what we consider to be air-conditioning, using HRV and ERV systems instead -- with the actual choice influenced by local climatic humidity.
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whodidntante
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Re: Want adequate filter to discharge clothes drier indoors

Post by whodidntante »

A dryer moves quite a bit of air and it's contaminated. A small inline sock isn't going to solve that. You would need a large surface area to avoid restricting the airflow and to provide a reasonable filter change interval and you would need to circulate the moist air throughout the house to avoid localized damage. I think there is a reason why there isn't a cheap, commercially available, effective solution to this problem.

I've also wondered why I need to run a refrigerator when the air outside is colder. But not for long. The reason is it isn't cost effective or efficient to bring in the cool air.
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ClevrChico
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Re: Want adequate filter to discharge clothes drier indoors

Post by ClevrChico »

It may seem counter-intuitive, but the colder it is, the less you want the humidity to be in your house.

http://www.rmsab.com/articles/proper-indoor-humidity/

Dumping moist dryer air into the house can cause damage. I don't think you want to breathe in fabric softener fumes either.
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Re: Want adequate filter to discharge clothes drier indoors

Post by Alex Frakt »

ClevrChico wrote: Mon Jan 01, 2018 3:41 pm It may seem counter-intuitive, but the colder it is, the less you want the humidity to be in your house.

http://www.rmsab.com/articles/proper-indoor-humidity/

Dumping moist dryer air into the house can cause damage. I don't think you want to breathe in fabric softener fumes either.
I run humidifiers all winter. At my doctor's suggestion I keep the humidity above 35%, ideally closer to 45% but the humidifiers can't keep up when it gets really cold. Alleviating my allergies and my daughter's nosebleeds are a bit more important to me than dealing with occasional condensation on the inside of the windows.

FWIW, I always tack an extra cold water rinse cycle on the end of my wash and I don't use fabric softener.
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Re: Want adequate filter to discharge clothes drier indoors

Post by btenny »

My daughter has one of those ventless dryers in England. It does not work in winter. The clother never get dry. It works poorely in the summer. She now mostly uses a Ikea rack to dry stuff. She hates the dryer.

Get a vented dryer or use a clothes line. Good luck..
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Re: Want adequate filter to discharge clothes drier indoors

Post by talzara »

jeffyscott wrote: Mon Jan 01, 2018 11:51 am The cheapest one, while it has a small capacity, appears to be around $800:
https://www.ajmadison.com/cgi-bin/ajmad ... 10TIW.html

So maybe more like 10 years to break even?

But if you can have a gas dryer, the energy costs are probably about 1/3 to 1/2 of electric, so annual dryer operation cost would be maybe $25-$40 and it's back to 20 years or more to break even.
The Electrolux EFDE210TIW is not a heat pump condensing dryer (HPCD). It's a condensing dryer that uses a resistive heating element. It's not as efficient as an HPCD, so you won't get a 10-year payback.

Condensing gas dryers make even less economic sense. Natural gas costs about $1.30 a therm in the US, or 4.4 cents per kWh equivalent. The average family would only spend $26 a year to dry clothes with gas.
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Re: Want adequate filter to discharge clothes drier indoors

Post by jeffyscott »

talzara wrote: Tue Jan 02, 2018 4:03 pmThe Electrolux EFDE210TIW is not a heat pump condensing dryer (HPCD). It's a condensing dryer that uses a resistive heating element. It's not as efficient as an HPCD, so you won't get a 10-year payback.

Condensing gas dryers make even less economic sense. Natural gas costs about $1.30 a therm in the US, or 4.4 cents per kWh equivalent. The average family would only spend $26 a year to dry clothes with gas.
Ah, thanks for the correction. I was assuming ventless=heat pump condensing.

With gas, my intended comparison was conventional gas vs. electric heat pump ventless. With the point being that it would make no sense to go to electric in order to have a ventless unit, if you have a gas line available. Ventless gas would be a safety problem, unless it were built with a heat exchanger and the combustion gases were vented, like a furnace, which would greatly increase the cost.
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Re: Want adequate filter to discharge clothes drier indoors

Post by clutchied »

So... if it's an Electric dryer you can get a bucket from home depot or lowes and cut a hole in the top. There's a coupling to buy that screws into the top and then you just drill like 2 inch holes around the top on the lid.

Fill bucket 1/2 with water. Voila! Youtube videos are useful.
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