New Job Offer Dilemma

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biscuit
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New Job Offer Dilemma

Post by biscuit » Sat Dec 30, 2017 4:42 pm

I received a job offer from a company a couple of days ago and I'm in a great dilemma. The new company is offering $20K more salary than my current salary. Below are the facts for your review. What would you do if you were in my situation?

Current company:

It's a big technology firm and the company is doing really well. I was promised for a promotion and it didn't happen due to the leadership change. Now I need to prove to the new leaders that I'm worthy of a promotion.
Dollar to dollar 401K match for up to 6%
5 weeks leave (3 weeks vacation + 2 weeks PTO) + company-wide holiday during the week of Christmas
I work remote. So I probably won't be able to grow in my career other than getting that one promotion (hopefully)

New company:
The company is not doing well and expecting a buyout soon. It's considerably smaller than my current company.
0.5% 401K match for up to 5%. It will be 100% vested starting year 2
2 weeks of vacation and 0.5 days PTO accrued at the end of every month.
No working from home option available. Need to be in office 5 days a week.

Although I'm concerned about the company's instability, $20K seems quite attractive considering we have a strict budget and we will be able to splurge a little with some of the increase. Also, I'm going to continue looking for new opportunities in the coming months if this one doesn't work out.

chw
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Re: New Job Offer Dilemma

Post by chw » Sat Dec 30, 2017 4:50 pm

Seems to be a no brainier to stay with your present company, unless the work environment is poor. The 20K difference in pay (which is taxable), will be offset by the larger 401K match you are getting from your current company (tax deferred). Given this, the $ may be close to a wash.

I personally would like the work from home flexibility, but others may not care about this.

DrGoogle2017
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Re: New Job Offer Dilemma

Post by DrGoogle2017 » Sat Dec 30, 2017 4:51 pm

I would stay put. It doesn’t seem high enough, of course it depends on what you make now. You might be out of a job with the second company.

Traveler
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Re: New Job Offer Dilemma

Post by Traveler » Sat Dec 30, 2017 4:51 pm

Since you didn't give the actual salary amounts, it is difficult to give advice. $20K on $60K is a lot more than $20K on $150K, for instance. That said, you know the numbers and can calculate the total compensation including 401K match and time off (put it into a $ amount), and cost of commute and compare the two jobs. The intangibles include promotion/advancement opportunities and the stability of the companies/risk of buy out, etc.

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Nestegg_User
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Re: New Job Offer Dilemma

Post by Nestegg_User » Sat Dec 30, 2017 4:54 pm

IMO, $20k doesn’t even come close to being enough to transfer to that company: the loss of PTO, the commute time and wear and tear on your vehicle, the loss of match on 401k, the instability of the company ....

some other company....but not that one

BogleMelon
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Re: New Job Offer Dilemma

Post by BogleMelon » Sat Dec 30, 2017 4:58 pm

Are you making now $20K/yr, and it would be $40K in the new company? (100% raise). Or you are making now $180K and it will be $200K if you moved? (11% raise).
I would move if it is the first or close, but if say you are making already $100K or higher, it doesn't worth in my opinion
"One of the funny things about stock market, every time one is buying another is selling, and both think they are astute" - William Feather

stoptothink
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Re: New Job Offer Dilemma

Post by stoptothink » Sat Dec 30, 2017 5:00 pm

Nearing_Destination wrote:
Sat Dec 30, 2017 4:54 pm
IMO, $20k doesn’t even come close to being enough to transfer to that company: the loss of PTO, the commute time and wear and tear on your vehicle, the loss of match on 401k, the instability of the company ....

some other company....but not that one
This. I was in a (somewhat) similar position 3yrs ago and decided to stick with the more stable company and it was easily the best career decision I ever made. Based on the downsides of the offering company, that $20k would have to represent at least a 50% raise for me to even have a passing thought of leaving, and my guess is that it is a fraction of that.

jebmke
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Re: New Job Offer Dilemma

Post by jebmke » Sat Dec 30, 2017 5:00 pm

I'd stay put but I vowed when I was first starting out that I would never take a job just for the money.
When you discover that you are riding a dead horse, the best strategy is to dismount.

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Kenkat
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Re: New Job Offer Dilemma

Post by Kenkat » Sat Dec 30, 2017 5:03 pm

Don’t take a job with an impending buyout. You don’t know what is going to happen after a buyout; it might be hit the bricks, pal.

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GerryL
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Re: New Job Offer Dilemma

Post by GerryL » Sat Dec 30, 2017 5:06 pm

Other questions I would ask about your current position:
How long have you been with that company? In your current position?
Do you enjoy the work? Your work team?
Is it just the lack of promised promotion that makes you think about moving? How about possible opportunities to develop your skills?

The scoring seems to weigh towards staying. Keep in mind that opting to stay this time does not mean that you need to give up looking. Another option, if you are leaning toward the new job, is to see if you can get current company to make a counter offer, sweeten the deal to stay.

123
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Re: New Job Offer Dilemma

Post by 123 » Sat Dec 30, 2017 5:15 pm

If I were you I wouldn't take that offer.
The closest helping hand is at the end of your own arm.

biscuit
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Re: New Job Offer Dilemma

Post by biscuit » Sat Dec 30, 2017 5:16 pm

GerryL wrote:
Sat Dec 30, 2017 5:06 pm
Other questions I would ask about your current position:
How long have you been with that company? In your current position?
Do you enjoy the work? Your work team?
Is it just the lack of promised promotion that makes you think about moving? How about possible opportunities to develop your skills?

The scoring seems to weigh towards staying. Keep in mind that opting to stay this time does not mean that you need to give up looking. Another option, if you are leaning toward the new job, is to see if you can get current company to make a counter offer, sweeten the deal to stay.
How long have you been with that company? In your current position? 5+ years and 2+ years in the current position
Do you enjoy the work? Your work team? Love my work and my team members are good.
Is it just the lack of promised promotion that makes you think about moving? How about possible opportunities to develop your skills?
Yes. It makes me really mad. Because, as far as I know I'm the top performer in the team. I probably will get a promotion in the next few months. But I don't want to count on that as I just got burnt once.

In my current job, I'm learning every single day. I like my role and the new opportunities. The role in the new company seems interesting as well.

My current salary is ~$100K (including bonus)

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Smorgasbord
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Re: New Job Offer Dilemma

Post by Smorgasbord » Sat Dec 30, 2017 5:19 pm

From April 2017:
biscuit wrote:
Tue Apr 25, 2017 2:30 pm
I am on the job market for a new job. One of the companies I'm interested came back with an offer. On the phone, the recruiter mentioned a number as a base salary and when he sent out the offer letter, he reduced it by $20K. When I called him to verify the change, he was adamant that he mentioned only the salary-$20K.

Thanks everyone! Appreciate all your inputs. I decided to move forward with the role for various reasons besides $$.
Seven or so months into your new job, and you're already looking to jump ship? What's the vesting schedule on your current company's 401k?

biscuit
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Re: New Job Offer Dilemma

Post by biscuit » Sat Dec 30, 2017 5:21 pm

Smorgasbord wrote:
Sat Dec 30, 2017 5:19 pm
From April 2017:
biscuit wrote:
Tue Apr 25, 2017 2:30 pm
Thanks everyone! Appreciate all your inputs. I decided to move forward with the role for various reasons besides $$.
Seven or so months into your new job, and you're already looking to jump ship? What's the vesting schedule on your current company's 401k?
That post was about my husband's job. He used my account to post his questions. Can you focus on the current thread and respond?

OnTrack2020
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Re: New Job Offer Dilemma

Post by OnTrack2020 » Sat Dec 30, 2017 5:39 pm

You have basically 1-1/2 months off with your current company. I would stay. Not many people have this generous amount of time off.

If the company you are considering is bought out, is there a chance that the position you would be taking would be eliminated?

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njboater74
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Re: New Job Offer Dilemma

Post by njboater74 » Sat Dec 30, 2017 5:53 pm

I would be very hesitant to joining any company that I felt was not doing well, pending buyout or not. The pending buyout only makes it worse.

Don't worry about the promised promotion, you'll get your chance to prove yourself to the new leadership. That's how it always works. And while you don't necessarily see greater enhancement down the line, opportunities materialize in ways you don't expect. I'm sure there will be plenty of ways to move up and around in the future.

20k isn't worth joining a company that you aren't passionate about. If the place is doing poorly, there could be some toxicity about the place that could rub off on you.

Stick with the winner! I'm sure you can find another job paying $20k more at a quality company at some point in the future.
When the mob and the press and the whole world tell you to move, your job is to plant yourself like a tree beside the river of truth and tell the whole world - 'No, YOU move'--Captain America, Boglehead

CppCoder
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Re: New Job Offer Dilemma

Post by CppCoder » Sat Dec 30, 2017 6:09 pm

I'd stay put. Let me give you some insight on promotions and whether or not you should be irritated. I used to be more irritated about promotions until I became someone who gave them and understood the implications in my company. It probably doesn't work the same way in your company, but use it as a parable to understand the other side of the promotion puzzle.

In my mega corp, promotions simply change your title and change your pay band. The good thing about promotions is they usually come with a larger raise. The bad thing about promotions is that the change in pay bands also changes the group you are competing with for raises. Sometimes, giving people promotions can be detrimental to their future pay. If someone still has room in their current pay band to give them a good raise without a promotion, I'd rather do that, especially if I don't think they'll be as competitive in the next pay band. Let me give an example. Pretend someone makes $100k and is currently in level 15, which has a pay band up to $115k. So, let's look at a three year horizon. In the current pay band I can give the following raises: 5%, 5%, 8% (promotion to level 16 comes with 3% bonus). New salary after three years: $119k. Suppose instead, in year 1, I could have promoted to level 16 with a total band of $90k - $160k, but I know the person is not as competitive in level 16 as in level 15. Now, I can give the following three raises: 8%, 3%, 3%. Final salary: $114.6k. In scenario 1, the employee feels better about herself. In scenario 2, employee gets more money (ignoring time value of money since the salary increases at different rates). Which is better? It depends, I suppose, on your perspective. Do you want to feel good about yourself or do you want more money? I, personally, prefer more money. I work with some people, however, who prefer the prestige of the promotion. Sometimes, managers don't promote employees for the employees' own benefit. The managers are then told by HR that they can't tell employees why their promotion was denied.

TLDR: The moral of the story is that sometimes promotions have as much to do with extrinsic factors (e.g., office politics, current fiscal climate) as they have to do with employee performance.

cherijoh
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Re: New Job Offer Dilemma

Post by cherijoh » Sat Dec 30, 2017 6:36 pm

biscuit wrote:
Sat Dec 30, 2017 4:42 pm
I received a job offer from a company a couple of days ago and I'm in a great dilemma. The new company is offering $20K more salary than my current salary. Below are the facts for your review. What would you do if you were in my situation?

Current company:

It's a big technology firm and the company is doing really well. I was promised for a promotion and it didn't happen due to the leadership change. Now I need to prove to the new leaders that I'm worthy of a promotion.
Dollar to dollar 401K match for up to 6%
5 weeks leave (3 weeks vacation + 2 weeks PTO) + company-wide holiday during the week of Christmas
I work remote. So I probably won't be able to grow in my career other than getting that one promotion (hopefully)

New company:
The company is not doing well and expecting a buyout soon. It's considerably smaller than my current company.
0.5% 401K match for up to 5%. It will be 100% vested starting year 2
2 weeks of vacation and 0.5 days PTO accrued at the end of every month.
No working from home option available. Need to be in office 5 days a week.

Although I'm concerned about the company's instability, $20K seems quite attractive considering we have a strict budget and we will be able to splurge a little with some of the increase. Also, I'm going to continue looking for new opportunities in the coming months if this one doesn't work out.
biscuit wrote:
Sat Dec 30, 2017 5:16 pm
GerryL wrote:
Sat Dec 30, 2017 5:06 pm
Other questions I would ask about your current position:
How long have you been with that company? In your current position?
Do you enjoy the work? Your work team?
Is it just the lack of promised promotion that makes you think about moving? How about possible opportunities to develop your skills?

The scoring seems to weigh towards staying. Keep in mind that opting to stay this time does not mean that you need to give up looking. Another option, if you are leaning toward the new job, is to see if you can get current company to make a counter offer, sweeten the deal to stay.
How long have you been with that company? In your current position? 5+ years and 2+ years in the current position
Do you enjoy the work? Your work team? Love my work and my team members are good.
Is it just the lack of promised promotion that makes you think about moving? How about possible opportunities to develop your skills?
Yes. It makes me really mad. Because, as far as I know I'm the top performer in the team. I probably will get a promotion in the next few months. But I don't want to count on that as I just got burnt once.

In my current job, I'm learning every single day. I like my role and the new opportunities. The role in the new company seems interesting as well.

My current salary is ~$100K (including bonus)
My Advice would be to pass on this new opportunity, continue to look for a new position, but wait for something where the positives clearly outweigh the negatives. Because there definitely are negatives about the offer you are considering.

Here are a couple of things to consider in your decision.

401-k plan differences
Assuming that you are investing at least 6% to 401k, you would be giving up 3.5% or $3.5K/yr match by taking new job. If the new job tanks before you get vested in the match, you would give up all 6% of match or $6K /year. I suspect your current 401k is a safe harbor plan (which would mean that you don't have to worry about being a highly compensated employee and potentially having your ability to contribute to the plan restricted). I know the new company's plan is NOT a safe harbor plan since one of the requirements is being immediately vested in the company match. I have previously been considered a HCE and had my 401k contributions restricted :annoyed - it is something to avoid if possible!

Vacation/PTO
You will have 5 days less vacation and 4 days less PTO in the new job which dilutes the value raise.
$100K for 47 weeks work vs. $120K for 48.8 weeks of work.

Commuting Costs
Have you taken a stab at estimating the additional commuting costs related to the new job? Would you need to be commuting during peak rush hour? Both tangible (paid parking if applicable, gas, wear & tear on your car, wardrobe related expenses, lunches if you didn't brown bag, etc.) and intangible (stress from a hectic commute, added time to your workday, etc.). I usually work from home 3 - 4 days a week and I really appreciate the arrangement.

Promotion
Do you have any idea of how much the promotion you missed out on was worth? At what level was the management change? Do some of the old reporting chain remain who would support your promotion and might act as an advocate with the new management? It would be a shame to jump ship if the promotion could come through in a few months and put you close to the new salary without taking the cut in 401K match and vacation/PTO as well as taking on more job instability.

FWIW, I understand your frustration. I thought I was going to get a promotion in 1Q 2016, but it did not materialize. I did end up getting a very high performance review (even though I personally didn't think my performance was any different from previous years) which gave me a much higher raise than prior years (2x) and a bigger bonus (1.4x). I figured that was my consolation prize for missing out on the promotion. Is there any possibility you will see something like that?

FYI - I did finally get the promotion in 1Q 2017. (Our company only does promotions once per year).

GreenGrowTheDollars
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Re: New Job Offer Dilemma

Post by GreenGrowTheDollars » Sat Dec 30, 2017 6:46 pm

DH's company went through a buyout after some financial troubles. One week after the deal closed a big chunk of the tech staff was let go in favor of outsourcing and the remaining staff were put to work teaching the new outsourcing folks how to do the work. I wouldn't jump to a company in trouble, especially when you would be junior man on the totem pole.

But...is out-of-sight, out-of-mind potentially keeping you from making the connections that would help you move up at your current company? Could you work in the office a couple days a week to gain more visibility?

edge
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Re: New Job Offer Dilemma

Post by edge » Sat Dec 30, 2017 8:53 pm

Doesn’t seem like a good enough opportunity to leave.

biscuit
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Re: New Job Offer Dilemma

Post by biscuit » Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:09 am

Thanks everyone. Appreciate all your suggestions.

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