I Want to Buy a Horrible, Expensive Car

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ge1
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Re: I Want to Buy a Horrible, Expensive Car

Post by ge1 » Sat Dec 30, 2017 4:40 pm

watchnerd wrote:
Sat Dec 30, 2017 1:56 pm
ssquared87 wrote:
Sat Dec 30, 2017 11:57 am
watchnerd wrote:
Sat Dec 30, 2017 3:18 am
ssquared87 wrote:
Sat Dec 30, 2017 3:00 am
You said you enjoyed driving the Porsche and the Audi. Personally I think the Audi is a bland over engineered appliance but the Porsche is spectacular. Why not get one of these sice they clearly made an impression on you and get a rubber trunk liner so your fish guts or whatever don’t get in the carpet.
I'd agree if it was the Q7, but this was the SQ5, 354 hp, 0-60 5.1 sec, same as Porsche Macan S, so more sizzle than the base model.

Or split the difference and get the new Allroad.
There's way more to a proper driving car than power. The Macan S has far better steering feel, turn in, styling etc. The SQ5 is floaty and dives into turns, while the Macan is fairly flat yet the ride isn't harsh. Like nearly every other Audi the SQ5 understeers quite a bit, the Macan doesn't at all. Even though they're built on the same platform, Porsche has done a much better job with the chasis.
Just played with the configurator and while the base Macan is 55k, by the time I optioned it out it was like 80k. So 25k in options. Is that a la carte pricing typical of Porsche? Are there bundles that are better deals?
We bought a Macan recently in the low 60s and the car is gorgeous. Drove a Q5 before that which was nice too, but the Macan is clearly a step up.

likegarden
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Re: I Want to Buy a Horrible, Expensive Car

Post by likegarden » Sat Dec 30, 2017 6:03 pm

I would never buy a car with which you can expect repairs. Sitting at a dealership waiting for a repair to be done, and repeatedly, takes away too much life.

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munemaker
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Re: I Want to Buy a Horrible, Expensive Car

Post by munemaker » Sat Dec 30, 2017 9:09 pm

Buy it and consider the price to be tuition for the lessons you will learn.

Or, if you are smart, learn the lesson from others on here and invest the tuition money.

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watchnerd
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Re: I Want to Buy a Horrible, Expensive Car

Post by watchnerd » Sat Dec 30, 2017 10:22 pm

ge1 wrote:
Sat Dec 30, 2017 4:40 pm
watchnerd wrote:
Sat Dec 30, 2017 1:56 pm
ssquared87 wrote:
Sat Dec 30, 2017 11:57 am
watchnerd wrote:
Sat Dec 30, 2017 3:18 am
ssquared87 wrote:
Sat Dec 30, 2017 3:00 am
You said you enjoyed driving the Porsche and the Audi. Personally I think the Audi is a bland over engineered appliance but the Porsche is spectacular. Why not get one of these sice they clearly made an impression on you and get a rubber trunk liner so your fish guts or whatever don’t get in the carpet.
I'd agree if it was the Q7, but this was the SQ5, 354 hp, 0-60 5.1 sec, same as Porsche Macan S, so more sizzle than the base model.

Or split the difference and get the new Allroad.
There's way more to a proper driving car than power. The Macan S has far better steering feel, turn in, styling etc. The SQ5 is floaty and dives into turns, while the Macan is fairly flat yet the ride isn't harsh. Like nearly every other Audi the SQ5 understeers quite a bit, the Macan doesn't at all. Even though they're built on the same platform, Porsche has done a much better job with the chasis.
Just played with the configurator and while the base Macan is 55k, by the time I optioned it out it was like 80k. So 25k in options. Is that a la carte pricing typical of Porsche? Are there bundles that are better deals?
We bought a Macan recently in the low 60s and the car is gorgeous. Drove a Q5 before that which was nice too, but the Macan is clearly a step up.
How is the storage room in the Macan with seats folded down?

I thought it was smaller than the Q5, closer to Q3/X3 size, but maybe I'm wrong.
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randomguy
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Re: I Want to Buy a Horrible, Expensive Car

Post by randomguy » Sat Dec 30, 2017 10:24 pm

likegarden wrote:
Sat Dec 30, 2017 6:03 pm
I would never buy a car with which you can expect repairs. Sitting at a dealership waiting for a repair to be done, and repeatedly, takes away too much life.
Why would you sit at the dealership versus getting the loaner car and getting on with your life? And seriously if land rover, BMW, Audi, MB, VW, Chrysler and the rest were as bad as everyone states, nobody would buy them. They are (in general) 2-3x as bad a a honda in those first 6-7 years (unaware of any decent 7-15 year studies). Most people aren't living at the dealer. You might decide though that many more trips isn't worth it to you. ANd make sure you are looking at the reliabililty stats of the post ford models. Some of those ford years and earlier were epically bad:)

And unfortunately deprecation isn't as bad as people put out. Compare to a RDX, NXT, X3, Q5 and so on, and the depreciation is pretty similiar when you factor in discounts off MSRP and included maintenance. We are talking <10% differences.

It wouldn't be my first choice but in the <45k range (i.e. no 80k land cruisers, 60k macans,...), I could see it fitting your needs if you prefer rugged to sporty (i.e. X3,Q5,..). Just accept you are paying 15-20k by doing this over getting CRV or the like. You can afford it. It is just up to you if you want to or not.

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watchnerd
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Re: I Want to Buy a Horrible, Expensive Car

Post by watchnerd » Sat Dec 30, 2017 10:35 pm

randomguy wrote:
Sat Dec 30, 2017 10:24 pm


Why would you sit at the dealership versus getting the loaner car and getting on with your life? And seriously if land rover, BMW, Audi, MB, VW, Chrysler and the rest were as bad as everyone states, nobody would buy them. They are (in general) 2-3x as bad a a honda in those first 6-7 years (unaware of any decent 7-15 year studies). Most people aren't living at the dealer. You might decide though that many more trips isn't worth it to you. ANd make sure you are looking at the reliabililty stats of the post ford models. Some of those ford years and earlier were epically bad:)

And unfortunately deprecation isn't as bad as people put out. Compare to a RDX, NXT, X3, Q5 and so on, and the depreciation is pretty similiar when you factor in discounts off MSRP and included maintenance. We are talking <10% differences.
Well, Consumer Reports seems to disagree on the reliability aspect.

Predicted Reliability

2018 Land Rover Discovery: 1/5
2018 Porsche Macan: 4/5
2018 Lexus NX: 4/5
2018 Audi Q5: 4/5
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donfairplay
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Re: I Want to Buy a Horrible, Expensive Car

Post by donfairplay » Sat Dec 30, 2017 10:39 pm

randomguy wrote:
Sat Dec 30, 2017 10:24 pm
likegarden wrote:
Sat Dec 30, 2017 6:03 pm
I would never buy a car with which you can expect repairs. Sitting at a dealership waiting for a repair to be done, and repeatedly, takes away too much life.
Why would you sit at the dealership versus getting the loaner car and getting on with your life? And seriously if land rover, BMW, Audi, MB, VW, Chrysler and the rest were as bad as everyone states, nobody would buy them. They are (in general) 2-3x as bad a a honda in those first 6-7 years (unaware of any decent 7-15 year studies). Most people aren't living at the dealer. You might decide though that many more trips isn't worth it to you. ANd make sure you are looking at the reliabililty stats of the post ford models. Some of those ford years and earlier were epically bad:)

And unfortunately deprecation isn't as bad as people put out. Compare to a RDX, NXT, X3, Q5 and so on, and the depreciation is pretty similiar when you factor in discounts off MSRP and included maintenance. We are talking <10% differences.

It wouldn't be my first choice but in the <45k range (i.e. no 80k land cruisers, 60k macans,...), I could see it fitting your needs if you prefer rugged to sporty (i.e. X3,Q5,..). Just accept you are paying 15-20k by doing this over getting CRV or the like. You can afford it. It is just up to you if you want to or not.
A lot of times, routine maintenance like an oil change or brakes turns into a $1000+ repair with the service rep/manager saying "during the oil change we noticed something..."

You go in thinking you'll be out in an hour, you go out in a loaner (or in the case of Chrysler you get a ride back home and they'll pick you up when its finished.)

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Sandtrap
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Re: I Want to Buy a Horrible, Expensive Car

Post by Sandtrap » Sat Dec 30, 2017 11:00 pm

Toyota Landcruiser with all options.
j :D

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watchnerd
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Re: I Want to Buy a Horrible, Expensive Car

Post by watchnerd » Sun Dec 31, 2017 12:09 am

Sandtrap wrote:
Sat Dec 30, 2017 11:00 pm
Toyota Landcruiser with all options.
j :D
In some countries, that includes armor plating:

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NYCguy
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Re: I Want to Buy a Horrible, Expensive Car

Post by NYCguy » Sun Dec 31, 2017 8:50 am

Jack FFR1846 wrote:
Sat Dec 30, 2017 2:58 pm
toofache32 wrote:
Sat Dec 30, 2017 12:53 pm
NYCguy wrote:
Sat Dec 30, 2017 12:00 am
Go for it if you want it. You can afford it. I am 4 years into a Cayenne and LOVE the truck.
I'm trying to understand how a Cayenne could be confused with a truck.
I have a friend with a Cayenne. When I see him, I say "nice mini van".

He's not amused and lately shows up in his Elise instead.
I was being cheeky. Cayenne is an amazing vehicle

OP.....just buy a Nissan GT-R.
If your out-go is greater than your income, your upkeep will be your DOWNFALL.

randomguy
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Re: I Want to Buy a Horrible, Expensive Car

Post by randomguy » Sun Dec 31, 2017 9:07 am

watchnerd wrote:
Sat Dec 30, 2017 10:35 pm
randomguy wrote:
Sat Dec 30, 2017 10:24 pm


Why would you sit at the dealership versus getting the loaner car and getting on with your life? And seriously if land rover, BMW, Audi, MB, VW, Chrysler and the rest were as bad as everyone states, nobody would buy them. They are (in general) 2-3x as bad a a honda in those first 6-7 years (unaware of any decent 7-15 year studies). Most people aren't living at the dealer. You might decide though that many more trips isn't worth it to you. ANd make sure you are looking at the reliabililty stats of the post ford models. Some of those ford years and earlier were epically bad:)

And unfortunately deprecation isn't as bad as people put out. Compare to a RDX, NXT, X3, Q5 and so on, and the depreciation is pretty similiar when you factor in discounts off MSRP and included maintenance. We are talking <10% differences.
Well, Consumer Reports seems to disagree on the reliability aspect.

Predicted Reliability

2018 Land Rover Discovery: 1/5
2018 Porsche Macan: 4/5
2018 Lexus NX: 4/5
2018 Audi Q5: 4/5
Not really. The difference between a 4/5 and a 1/5 is 2-3x as many incidents. It isn't 20x.

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Re: I Want to Buy a Horrible, Expensive Car

Post by randomguy » Sun Dec 31, 2017 9:23 am

donfairplay wrote:
Sat Dec 30, 2017 10:39 pm
randomguy wrote:
Sat Dec 30, 2017 10:24 pm
likegarden wrote:
Sat Dec 30, 2017 6:03 pm
I would never buy a car with which you can expect repairs. Sitting at a dealership waiting for a repair to be done, and repeatedly, takes away too much life.
Why would you sit at the dealership versus getting the loaner car and getting on with your life? And seriously if land rover, BMW, Audi, MB, VW, Chrysler and the rest were as bad as everyone states, nobody would buy them. They are (in general) 2-3x as bad a a honda in those first 6-7 years (unaware of any decent 7-15 year studies). Most people aren't living at the dealer. You might decide though that many more trips isn't worth it to you. ANd make sure you are looking at the reliabililty stats of the post ford models. Some of those ford years and earlier were epically bad:)

And unfortunately deprecation isn't as bad as people put out. Compare to a RDX, NXT, X3, Q5 and so on, and the depreciation is pretty similiar when you factor in discounts off MSRP and included maintenance. We are talking <10% differences.

It wouldn't be my first choice but in the <45k range (i.e. no 80k land cruisers, 60k macans,...), I could see it fitting your needs if you prefer rugged to sporty (i.e. X3,Q5,..). Just accept you are paying 15-20k by doing this over getting CRV or the like. You can afford it. It is just up to you if you want to or not.
A lot of times, routine maintenance like an oil change or brakes turns into a $1000+ repair with the service rep/manager saying "during the oil change we noticed something..."

You go in thinking you'll be out in an hour, you go out in a loaner (or in the case of Chrysler you get a ride back home and they'll pick you up when its finished.)

Nah it is more you drop off the car, get the loaner, and 2 hours later they call saying they are doing a bunch warranty work and you should come back tomorrow:) It is only with my honda that I had the experience of going in for an oil change, waiting around for an hour and then learning they needed to do 1k of work (i.e. timing belt at 85k when I expected not to do that to 100k).

Again this isn't going to be the most reliable, cheapest, practical and so on car to own. It also isn't a car that you want to keep long term (i.e no 150k miles or 15 years here. ). But again if you go in thinking you will be paying 20k for this experience over the the CRV, things will probably work out.

Bogleheads tends to be a poor place for these types of questions because it is easy to quantify the money aspects but quantify the joy part is strictly personal.

WhyNotUs
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Re: I Want to Buy a Horrible, Expensive Car

Post by WhyNotUs » Sun Dec 31, 2017 10:03 am

Lease it, they are into the trouble zone after three years and you just hand it back to them. Buy a used one would be a non-starter for me. They are not good autos.
I own the next hot stock- VTSAX

an_asker
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Re: I Want to Buy a Horrible, Expensive Car

Post by an_asker » Sun Dec 31, 2017 10:09 am

ClevrChico wrote:
Fri Dec 29, 2017 10:30 pm
I'd sleep on it. For days and days. :-)
I'd sleep IN it! ;-)

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munemaker
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Re: I Want to Buy a Horrible, Expensive Car

Post by munemaker » Sun Dec 31, 2017 10:09 am

randomguy wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 9:23 am
It is only with my honda that I had the experience of going in for an oil change, waiting around for an hour and then learning they needed to do 1k of work (i.e. timing belt at 85k when I expected not to do that to 100k).
The timing belt is routine maintenance on that car. The interval is set by the manufacturer, not you or the dealer. If you and the dealer both referred to the owner's manual, you would have been on the same page.

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CMartel2
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Re: I Want to Buy a Horrible, Expensive Car

Post by CMartel2 » Sun Dec 31, 2017 10:25 am

Frisco Kid wrote:
Sat Dec 30, 2017 7:32 am
OP, your intended usage has Toyota 4 Runner written all over it IMHO.
Agreed. Go with a 4Runner TRD Pro in inferno, and you have a far a more capable, dependable, practical and frankly more masculine car than a Discovery.

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Cyclesafe
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Re: I Want to Buy a Horrible, Expensive Car

Post by Cyclesafe » Sun Dec 31, 2017 10:32 am

Didn't see the Porsche Macan in this discussion.

I've got a '15 Macan Turbo that has 400hp and 406 ft-lbs of torque. Never used launch control and it mostly sits in the garage, not because I'm afraid to drive it, but because with Amazon Prime etc I just don't need to drive as much. And I take Uber to the airport

Sure, we all grew up thinking that when we could "afford it", we would buy a hot car - that you only live once etc. - but really, how important is it - beyond a box that gets you from point A to point B - to really spend more than $20k for a reliable used car that more than suits its primary purpose? Nobody is impressed and they may hate you a little bit more for it.....

I have put off my next hot car purchase as I ponder the above.

edge
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Re: I Want to Buy a Horrible, Expensive Car

Post by edge » Sun Dec 31, 2017 11:16 am

Ya, I sort of hit a limit in the 50-100k range where it just doesn't matter beyond that. And frankly I would rather have empty garage space than to fill it with another car. So I tend to lease something nice that can work as a daily driver and is appropriate for the weather conditions. That happens to be an S4 lately.
Cyclesafe wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 10:32 am
Didn't see the Porsche Macan in this discussion.

I've got a '15 Macan Turbo that has 400hp and 406 ft-lbs of torque. Never used launch control and it mostly sits in the garage, not because I'm afraid to drive it, but because with Amazon Prime etc I just don't need to drive as much. And I take Uber to the airport

Sure, we all grew up thinking that when we could "afford it", we would buy a hot car - that you only live once etc. - but really, how important is it - beyond a box that gets you from point A to point B - to really spend more than $20k for a reliable used car that more than suits its primary purpose? Nobody is impressed and they may hate you a little bit more for it.....

I have put off my next hot car purchase as I ponder the above.

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midareff
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Re: I Want to Buy a Horrible, Expensive Car

Post by midareff » Sun Dec 31, 2017 11:24 am

You have done your homework and accumulated enough to be responsible for picking your own toys. If it (so to speak) blows your skirt up go for it.

RRAAYY3
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Re: I Want to Buy a Horrible, Expensive Car

Post by RRAAYY3 » Sun Dec 31, 2017 11:31 am

a "dream car" shouldn't be a nightmare - which is exactly what this will become a year after you buy it

stoptothink
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Re: I Want to Buy a Horrible, Expensive Car

Post by stoptothink » Sun Dec 31, 2017 11:43 am

Cyclesafe wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 10:32 am
Didn't see the Porsche Macan in this discussion.

I've got a '15 Macan Turbo that has 400hp and 406 ft-lbs of torque. Never used launch control and it mostly sits in the garage, not because I'm afraid to drive it, but because with Amazon Prime etc I just don't need to drive as much. And I take Uber to the airport

Sure, we all grew up thinking that when we could "afford it", we would buy a hot car - that you only live once etc. - but really, how important is it - beyond a box that gets you from point A to point B - to really spend more than $20k for a reliable used car that more than suits its primary purpose? Nobody is impressed and they may hate you a little bit more for it.....

I have put off my next hot car purchase as I ponder the above.
I'm a huge car guy and this is exactly my perspective. In fact, it started at the age of 18, when I bought my first (and only) nice car and realized that the thieves liked it even more than I did (had the wheels stolen, then the stereo, then the new wheels, then ultimately the entire car - all within less than a year) and it simply wasn't worth the stress, considering the only way I could have any real fun with it was to take it to the track. If hitting the gas for 2 seconds as you get on an on-ramp is fun enough for you to justify the cost, we simply have different perspectives. I took the insurance money and bought a pickup truck for $2500 and a heavily modded CBR F4i (then an even more modded CBR 1000rr) for the track. I've now since given up the motorcycle thing as well because it is simply too dangerous. My wife and I share a car now (which we bought new for about 1 month's household income), and one of the biggest factors in my quality of life is that I walk or ride my bike for 95% of my commuting. I think as our resources grow, we'll rent a really nice/fun car when we go on long driving trips and I have been talking about the possibility of maybe building a track-only car (like a miata) with my brother when we are pretty much financially set, but other than that, I am very thankful I scratched that itch at 18.

That all being said, this isn't a financial question for OP at all. If this is how you want to spend $50k, dude, do it.
Last edited by stoptothink on Sun Dec 31, 2017 11:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

ge1
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Re: I Want to Buy a Horrible, Expensive Car

Post by ge1 » Sun Dec 31, 2017 11:49 am

watchnerd wrote:
Sat Dec 30, 2017 10:22 pm
ge1 wrote:
Sat Dec 30, 2017 4:40 pm
watchnerd wrote:
Sat Dec 30, 2017 1:56 pm


We bought a Macan recently in the low 60s and the car is gorgeous. Drove a Q5 before that which was nice too, but the Macan is clearly a step up.
How is the storage room in the Macan with seats folded down?

I thought it was smaller than the Q5, closer to Q3/X3 size, but maybe I'm wrong.
The trunk space is comparable in my view or certainly more than sufficient as main family car. Legroom for the backseats is certainly less than the Q5. Not terrible but would not recommend it if I had two tall teenage kids for example.

The car cost probably less than 10k more than the Q5 we had and even though I liked the Q5, the Macan “feels” like it should cost 20-25k more.

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watchnerd
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Re: I Want to Buy a Horrible, Expensive Car

Post by watchnerd » Sun Dec 31, 2017 12:28 pm

randomguy wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 9:07 am
watchnerd wrote:
Sat Dec 30, 2017 10:35 pm
randomguy wrote:
Sat Dec 30, 2017 10:24 pm


Why would you sit at the dealership versus getting the loaner car and getting on with your life? And seriously if land rover, BMW, Audi, MB, VW, Chrysler and the rest were as bad as everyone states, nobody would buy them. They are (in general) 2-3x as bad a a honda in those first 6-7 years (unaware of any decent 7-15 year studies). Most people aren't living at the dealer. You might decide though that many more trips isn't worth it to you. ANd make sure you are looking at the reliabililty stats of the post ford models. Some of those ford years and earlier were epically bad:)

And unfortunately deprecation isn't as bad as people put out. Compare to a RDX, NXT, X3, Q5 and so on, and the depreciation is pretty similiar when you factor in discounts off MSRP and included maintenance. We are talking <10% differences.
Well, Consumer Reports seems to disagree on the reliability aspect.

Predicted Reliability

2018 Land Rover Discovery: 1/5
2018 Porsche Macan: 4/5
2018 Lexus NX: 4/5
2018 Audi Q5: 4/5
Not really. The difference between a 4/5 and a 1/5 is 2-3x as many incidents. It isn't 20x.
Sure, but the point is that Porsche & Audi are rated the same as Lexus. LR is rated worst.
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watchnerd
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Re: I Want to Buy a Horrible, Expensive Car

Post by watchnerd » Sun Dec 31, 2017 12:34 pm

Cyclesafe wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 10:32 am
Didn't see the Porsche Macan in this discussion.

I've got a '15 Macan Turbo that has 400hp and 406 ft-lbs of torque. Never used launch control and it mostly sits in the garage, not because I'm afraid to drive it, but because with Amazon Prime etc I just don't need to drive as much. And I take Uber to the airport

Sure, we all grew up thinking that when we could "afford it", we would buy a hot car - that you only live once etc. - but really, how important is it - beyond a box that gets you from point A to point B - to really spend more than $20k for a reliable used car that more than suits its primary purpose? Nobody is impressed and they may hate you a little bit more for it.....

I have put off my next hot car purchase as I ponder the above.
Thanks for the honest perspective.
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Re: I Want to Buy a Horrible, Expensive Car

Post by Ditchwitch » Sun Dec 31, 2017 1:01 pm

watchnerd wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 12:34 pm
Cyclesafe wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 10:32 am
Didn't see the Porsche Macan in this discussion.

I've got a '15 Macan Turbo that has 400hp and 406 ft-lbs of torque. Never used launch control and it mostly sits in the garage, not because I'm afraid to drive it, but because with Amazon Prime etc I just don't need to drive as much. And I take Uber to the airport

Sure, we all grew up thinking that when we could "afford it", we would buy a hot car - that you only live once etc. - but really, how important is it - beyond a box that gets you from point A to point B - to really spend more than $20k for a reliable used car that more than suits its primary purpose? Nobody is impressed and they may hate you a little bit more for it.....

I have put off my next hot car purchase as I ponder the above.
Thanks for the honest perspective.
If you ever have to go thru some life changing health event (hopefully you will not) it will become clear that your biggest asset is your health. Keeping yourself and your health in order supersedes any other priority. Your family and finances probably come in close second/third...splurging on your dreams is great but it's really not that important. Yes, it's very visible and turns a lot of heads and the marketing folks are very good at playing that fiddle...
“Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new.” | ― Albert Einstein

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watchnerd
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Re: I Want to Buy a Horrible, Expensive Car

Post by watchnerd » Sun Dec 31, 2017 1:05 pm

Ditchwitch wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 1:01 pm
watchnerd wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 12:34 pm
Cyclesafe wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 10:32 am
Didn't see the Porsche Macan in this discussion.

I've got a '15 Macan Turbo that has 400hp and 406 ft-lbs of torque. Never used launch control and it mostly sits in the garage, not because I'm afraid to drive it, but because with Amazon Prime etc I just don't need to drive as much. And I take Uber to the airport

Sure, we all grew up thinking that when we could "afford it", we would buy a hot car - that you only live once etc. - but really, how important is it - beyond a box that gets you from point A to point B - to really spend more than $20k for a reliable used car that more than suits its primary purpose? Nobody is impressed and they may hate you a little bit more for it.....

I have put off my next hot car purchase as I ponder the above.
Thanks for the honest perspective.
If you ever have to go thru some life changing health event (hopefully you will not) it will become clear that your biggest asset is your health. Keeping yourself and your health in order supersedes any other priority. Your family and finances probably come in close second/third...splurging on your dreams is great but it's really not that important. Yes, it's very visible and turns a lot of heads and the marketing folks are very good at playing that fiddle...
I have. And you're right.

But not sure how it relates. Having a silly toy doesn't detract from me taking care of my heath.

Confused...
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Re: I Want to Buy a Horrible, Expensive Car

Post by Ditchwitch » Sun Dec 31, 2017 1:19 pm

watchnerd wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 1:05 pm
Ditchwitch wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 1:01 pm
watchnerd wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 12:34 pm
Cyclesafe wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 10:32 am
Didn't see the Porsche Macan in this discussion.

I've got a '15 Macan Turbo that has 400hp and 406 ft-lbs of torque. Never used launch control and it mostly sits in the garage, not because I'm afraid to drive it, but because with Amazon Prime etc I just don't need to drive as much. And I take Uber to the airport

Sure, we all grew up thinking that when we could "afford it", we would buy a hot car - that you only live once etc. - but really, how important is it - beyond a box that gets you from point A to point B - to really spend more than $20k for a reliable used car that more than suits its primary purpose? Nobody is impressed and they may hate you a little bit more for it.....

I have put off my next hot car purchase as I ponder the above.
Thanks for the honest perspective.
If you ever have to go thru some life changing health event (hopefully you will not) it will become clear that your biggest asset is your health. Keeping yourself and your health in order supersedes any other priority. Your family and finances probably come in close second/third...splurging on your dreams is great but it's really not that important. Yes, it's very visible and turns a lot of heads and the marketing folks are very good at playing that fiddle...
I have. And you're right.

But not sure how it relates. Having a silly toy doesn't detract from me taking care of my heath.

Confused...
in one of my earlier posts I already mentioned "you should go for it" based on your ability to handle financial losses ...just wanted to put things a bit in perspective...
“Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new.” | ― Albert Einstein

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Re: I Want to Buy a Horrible, Expensive Car

Post by watchnerd » Sun Dec 31, 2017 1:35 pm

CMartel2 wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 10:25 am
Frisco Kid wrote:
Sat Dec 30, 2017 7:32 am
OP, your intended usage has Toyota 4 Runner written all over it IMHO.
Agreed. Go with a 4Runner TRD Pro in inferno, and you have a far a more capable, dependable, practical and frankly more masculine car than a Discovery.
The 4Runner is certainly rugged and reliable, but I don't want something based on a truck platform. To quote Consumer Reports:

While almost every other midsized SUV has moved to car-based construction, the 4Runner remains an old-school, body-on-frame SUV, good for off-roading but not much else. The ride is unsettled and handling is mediocre at best; Limited trim versions have a sports suspension with somewhat better control but a stiffer ride.
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Re: I Want to Buy a Horrible, Expensive Car

Post by randomguy » Sun Dec 31, 2017 2:08 pm

munemaker wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 10:09 am
randomguy wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 9:23 am
It is only with my honda that I had the experience of going in for an oil change, waiting around for an hour and then learning they needed to do 1k of work (i.e. timing belt at 85k when I expected not to do that to 100k).
The timing belt is routine maintenance on that car. The interval is set by the manufacturer, not you or the dealer. If you and the dealer both referred to the owner's manual, you would have been on the same page.
It gets inspected during oil changes. Given this was the only only upsell in 6 or so years going to the dealer, I will take their word that replacing it now instead of in 15k/miles was reasonable. Obviously I could have been scammed or a matter of opinion (i.e. the line between the belt last 95k and 105k isn't exactly an exact science.)

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Re: I Want to Buy a Horrible, Expensive Car

Post by randomguy » Sun Dec 31, 2017 2:20 pm

watchnerd wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 12:34 pm
Cyclesafe wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 10:32 am
Didn't see the Porsche Macan in this discussion.

I've got a '15 Macan Turbo that has 400hp and 406 ft-lbs of torque. Never used launch control and it mostly sits in the garage, not because I'm afraid to drive it, but because with Amazon Prime etc I just don't need to drive as much. And I take Uber to the airport

Sure, we all grew up thinking that when we could "afford it", we would buy a hot car - that you only live once etc. - but really, how important is it - beyond a box that gets you from point A to point B - to really spend more than $20k for a reliable used car that more than suits its primary purpose? Nobody is impressed and they may hate you a little bit more for it.....

I have put off my next hot car purchase as I ponder the above.
Thanks for the honest perspective.
Isn't the take away that you shouldn't buy things you don't use? And yes nobody cares what you drive.

The luxury car versus normal car discussion is the same as any good. Is it worth eating 50 dollar meals when a 7 buck chipotle gives you the same calories? A 10 dollar tshirt covers you up as much as 50 dollar on. A cheap speaker plays the same songs as an expensive one. And so on. It is up to you to figure out if the improvements matter to you (seat comfort and road noise are pretty darn noticeable to me between 20k cars and 50k ones. If it is worth 30k is a different issue) or not. That gets pretty personal in a hurry based on your preferences and desires in life. If you walk out and see your LR as a way to get from point a to b, you will be have squandered money. If you get a smile on your face when you walk up and turn the ignition, then you have to decide if your getting enough value from that to make it worthwhile to you.

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Re: I Want to Buy a Horrible, Expensive Car

Post by gunn_show » Sun Dec 31, 2017 3:37 pm

tigermilk wrote:
Fri Dec 29, 2017 10:51 pm
I thought you said expensive? Discovery Sport looksmawfully run of the mill price wise for SUVs. I came into this thread expecting a Bentley Bentayga.
+1 .. Discovery Sport is a cheap wannabe-SUV for SoCal/SF-BA housewives.. IMHO
ge1 wrote:
Sat Dec 30, 2017 6:54 am
Another vote for the Porsche Macan. Surprisingly affordable - and it's a Porsche.
+1 (my dream next-vehicle as well) .. or
Frisco Kid wrote:
Sat Dec 30, 2017 7:32 am
OP, your intended usage has Toyota 4 Runner written all over it IMHO.
+1 .. 4Runner or Land Cruiser would seem to fit your desires to a T and come with top of line reliability... and you can spec them out big time

FWIW I have a Land-Cruiser-platform-based Lexus GX470 (older model, hate the newer body styles) with AWD v8 and it's a beast, amazing interior, great reliability, awesome Levinson stereo system, etc. Got it on the cheap with high mileage from a local high-end realtor for driving up to the ski condo and carrying stuff around town. Came with the TV ad WeatherTech mats (highly recommend btw) and so I can throw gear, ski stuff, home depot run, etc and not worry, pull out the mat and hose it off. I work from home otherwise so don't add a lot of miles to it, and hope to keep for a long time. Looked at the new 4Runners but could not justify the $$$ but it sounds like it fits the bill for you. Perhaps look into slightly used Land Cruiser / Lexus GX models. While it sucks gas like no other, I love the feel of the v8 AWD just yanking off the line when I drive it...

[and obv cost is not a problem here for you, you knew that writing the post.. get whatever you want]
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Re: I Want to Buy a Horrible, Expensive Car

Post by watchnerd » Sun Dec 31, 2017 3:55 pm

gunn_show wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 3:37 pm
tigermilk wrote:
Fri Dec 29, 2017 10:51 pm
I thought you said expensive? Discovery Sport looksmawfully run of the mill price wise for SUVs. I came into this thread expecting a Bentley Bentayga.
+1 .. Discovery Sport is a cheap wannabe-SUV for SoCal/SF-BA housewives.. IMHO
ge1 wrote:
Sat Dec 30, 2017 6:54 am
Another vote for the Porsche Macan. Surprisingly affordable - and it's a Porsche.
+1 (my dream next-vehicle as well) .. or
Frisco Kid wrote:
Sat Dec 30, 2017 7:32 am
OP, your intended usage has Toyota 4 Runner written all over it IMHO.
+1 .. 4Runner or Land Cruiser would seem to fit your desires to a T and come with top of line reliability... and you can spec them out big time

FWIW I have a Land-Cruiser-platform-based Lexus GX470 (older model, hate the newer body styles) with AWD v8 and it's a beast, amazing interior, great reliability, awesome Levinson stereo system, etc. Got it on the cheap with high mileage from a local high-end realtor for driving up to the ski condo and carrying stuff around town. Came with the TV ad WeatherTech mats (highly recommend btw) and so I can throw gear, ski stuff, home depot run, etc and not worry, pull out the mat and hose it off. I work from home otherwise so don't add a lot of miles to it, and hope to keep for a long time. Looked at the new 4Runners but could not justify the $$$ but it sounds like it fits the bill for you. Perhaps look into slightly used Land Cruiser / Lexus GX models. While it sucks gas like no other, I love the feel of the v8 AWD just yanking off the line when I drive it...

[and obv cost is not a problem here for you, you knew that writing the post.. get whatever you want]
The Land Cruiser is a big beast, much larger than I need. Tough indeed, fast in a straight line, but the handling, braking, and mpg are pretty bad.

10 mpg in city? I can't abide that in 2017.

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Re: I Want to Buy a Horrible, Expensive Car

Post by mortfree » Sun Dec 31, 2017 5:17 pm

I think this is the ultimate troll thread to compete with the current Porsche thread.

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Re: I Want to Buy a Horrible, Expensive Car

Post by LarryAllen » Sun Dec 31, 2017 5:36 pm

I'd wait a month or two and see if the concussion wears off by then. Seriously though, if you can't shake the itch, I would only lease one of those and only 2-3 years. Just know you'll be spending a ton of money to rent a fancy car. They are such pieces of junk. I have had several friends have one and every friend has said they were pieces of junk. They are great cars for professional athletes who like wasting money on stuff. No joke. I have been in the parking lot a pro basketball team and pro football team. It's about 15% Rovers.

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Re: I Want to Buy a Horrible, Expensive Car

Post by watchnerd » Sun Dec 31, 2017 5:43 pm

LarryAllen wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 5:36 pm
I'd wait a month or two and see if the concussion wears off by then. Seriously though, if you can't shake the itch, I would only lease one of those and only 2-3 years. Just know you'll be spending a ton of money to rent a fancy car. They are such pieces of junk. I have had several friends have one and every friend has said they were pieces of junk. They are great cars for professional athletes who like wasting money on stuff. No joke. I have been in the parking lot a pro basketball team and pro football team. It's about 15% Rovers.
I think this thread has killed the attraction.
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Re: I Want to Buy a Horrible, Expensive Car

Post by Doom&Gloom » Sun Dec 31, 2017 6:16 pm

watchnerd wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 5:43 pm
LarryAllen wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 5:36 pm
I'd wait a month or two and see if the concussion wears off by then. Seriously though, if you can't shake the itch, I would only lease one of those and only 2-3 years. Just know you'll be spending a ton of money to rent a fancy car. They are such pieces of junk. I have had several friends have one and every friend has said they were pieces of junk. They are great cars for professional athletes who like wasting money on stuff. No joke. I have been in the parking lot a pro basketball team and pro football team. It's about 15% Rovers.
I think this thread has killed the attraction.
Our work here is done!

:happy

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Re: I Want to Buy a Horrible, Expensive Car

Post by OldSport » Sun Dec 31, 2017 6:48 pm

watchnerd wrote:
Fri Dec 29, 2017 10:24 pm
I'm getting the hankering to upgrade / replace my perfectly serviceable, workhorse 2013 Nissan Murano SL AWD. It has ~40,000 miles on it and I'm sure could easily last another 5 years.

I love the interior in the Murano, the seats are some of the best I've ever sat in. The butt warmers are awesome. The engine / horsepower is 'meh'. Not bad or a liability, but not thrilling. Handling is also 'meh'. Not bad or truck-like, but far behind the Audi SQ5 and Porsche models I've been in. The electronics are a bit dated (no Apple Carplay like my wife's new 2018 Subaru), but adequate. The sound system is pretty good. The reliability has been good, with a finicky tire pressure gauge being my only gripe. My dog loves the visibility and human guests find it comfortable.

But I'm a bit bored with it and have no emotional connection to it. It's been a serviceable, yeoman machine. No objective complaints, but I get no driving thrill from it.

I've been in Volvo, Acura, and Lexii luxo SUVs and found them to be fine, but essentially of the same character as the Murano (nice, reliable, boring). I've also been in the Porsche and Audi SUVs and loved the driving experience, but have a real mental image problem with mapping those brands to outdoorsy activities. I'm not into the American offerings for a variety of reasons.

So what am I attracted to?

The Land Rover Discovery Sport.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCfSZTmhzcI

Horrible god-awful reliability ratings. A nice set of super-duty offroad features that I'll likely never use. Great interior. Far-less-than-German handling and performance. Good looks. A brand image that ranges from David Attenborough in Africa, to pimped out douche mobiles for soccer players who aren't quite rich enough to buy a G-wagen, to the Queen. Pipes, hoses, and electronics that all die prematurely. Far less indestructible than a Toyota Land Cruiser or Hilux, but also less terroristy.

Blackhole depreciation that makes Fiat look good.

No objectively sane person would ever buy one, or really any of the sister models, unless they just enjoy flushing money and time down the drain, or have a fleet of spares (e.g. The Queen).

Probably the most anti-Boglehead car one could buy, as not only is it expensive and impractical (so are Aston Martins, Porsches, and Ferraris), but there is no collector's market for vintage ones until you get to the truly old models from 30-40 years ago that hobbyists with full garages modify into Mad Max offroaders.

And, yet, I want one. Probably gently used to reduce the cost insanity, a bit. But when I think of the logical alternatives (Lexus, Infiniti, Acura) they bore me, might as well stick with what I have. And the Audi and Porsches seem far too sophisticated for me to take on to the muddy stinky beach clamming, or on a hunting trip and field-dress wild boar hanging upside-down from the lift gate.

(Lastly, since this is the Boglehead forum, I'm 47, married, no kids, no debts, own my own home with $700k in equity, half a mill in cash, 3/4th of a mill in tax sheltered retirement accounts, 200 grand in offshore bank accounts, six figures in stock grants, maxed out 401k and ESPP, savings rate of 27%-35% depending on how you calculate it, and I would pay in cash).

So do I need an intervention?

Or should I get one?
Have you test driven an Acura MDX Sport-Hybrid? That is a fun SUV to drive, at least for me.

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Re: I Want to Buy a Horrible, Expensive Car

Post by watchnerd » Sun Dec 31, 2017 7:13 pm

Doom&Gloom wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 6:16 pm
watchnerd wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 5:43 pm
LarryAllen wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 5:36 pm
I'd wait a month or two and see if the concussion wears off by then. Seriously though, if you can't shake the itch, I would only lease one of those and only 2-3 years. Just know you'll be spending a ton of money to rent a fancy car. They are such pieces of junk. I have had several friends have one and every friend has said they were pieces of junk. They are great cars for professional athletes who like wasting money on stuff. No joke. I have been in the parking lot a pro basketball team and pro football team. It's about 15% Rovers.
I think this thread has killed the attraction.
Our work here is done!

:happy
In the meantime, I've splurged on some new tires for the ole 2013 Murano, which have 32k miles on them.

Dropping $900 on some fancy pants new Michellin Premier LTX, to be installed next weekend. In the past, I've had pretty good performance boosts by upgrading the tires.
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Re: I Want to Buy a Horrible, Expensive Car

Post by watchnerd » Sun Dec 31, 2017 7:14 pm

OldSport wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 6:48 pm

Have you test driven an Acura MDX Sport-Hybrid? That is a fun SUV to drive, at least for me.
I haven't driven that one, just the regular MDX. Is there a big difference?
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Re: I Want to Buy a Horrible, Expensive Car

Post by daveydoo » Sun Dec 31, 2017 8:31 pm

Your original post indicates that you know what you're getting into. I can't quite tell why you want it so badly, and I think there are better choices in nearly all segments and for nearly all purposes, but you seem financially (and emotionally) well positioned to buy it. The first responder who said "sleep on it (again and again)" sums up my defense mechanism against these seemingly-unjustifiable urges.
"I mean, it's one banana, Michael...what could it cost? Ten dollars?"

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Re: I Want to Buy a Horrible, Expensive Car

Post by OldSport » Sun Dec 31, 2017 8:53 pm

watchnerd wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 7:14 pm
OldSport wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 6:48 pm

Have you test driven an Acura MDX Sport-Hybrid? That is a fun SUV to drive, at least for me.
I haven't driven that one, just the regular MDX. Is there a big difference?
Very much so, IMHO. They are completely different cars. The MDX SH-AWD drives better than the regular MDX, and the MDX Sport Hybrid is amazing, much better than the SH-AWD one. That is my experience.

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Re: I Want to Buy a Horrible, Expensive Car

Post by watchnerd » Sun Dec 31, 2017 9:10 pm

OldSport wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 8:53 pm
watchnerd wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 7:14 pm
OldSport wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 6:48 pm

Have you test driven an Acura MDX Sport-Hybrid? That is a fun SUV to drive, at least for me.
I haven't driven that one, just the regular MDX. Is there a big difference?
Very much so, IMHO. They are completely different cars. The MDX SH-AWD drives better than the regular MDX, and the MDX Sport Hybrid is amazing, much better than the SH-AWD one. That is my experience.
Thanks for opening my eyes to this model. I only knew about the vanilla MDX, which would be mostly a lateral move from the Murano I have now. But the stats for the MDX Sports Hybrid looks really interesting:

Power: 321 HP
MPG: 26 MPG city
0-60 mph in 6.1 seconds

Double-clutch AWD, active suspension

Presumably Honda-like reliability
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Re: I Want to Buy a Horrible, Expensive Car

Post by Ozonewanderer » Sun Dec 31, 2017 9:37 pm

I vote for you to go ahead and buy a car that gives you enjoyment. It is too large an investment for it to just be "meh" and no fun.

OTOH, I personally would say, "Can't you find a better car than the Land Rover?" My neighbors had one and got stranded in a rural area because it just stopped running, and there was no Land Rover dealership for many miles.

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Re: I Want to Buy a Horrible, Expensive Car

Post by watchnerd » Sun Dec 31, 2017 9:40 pm

Ozonewanderer wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 9:37 pm
I vote for you to go ahead and buy a car that gives you enjoyment. It is too large an investment for it to just be "meh" and no fun.

OTOH, I personally would say, "Can't you find a better car than the Land Rover?" My neighbors had one and got stranded in a rural area because it just stopped running, and there was no Land Rover dealership for many miles.
This thread has killed the LR appeal.
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Re: I Want to Buy a Horrible, Expensive Car

Post by OldSport » Sun Dec 31, 2017 10:06 pm

watchnerd wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 9:10 pm
OldSport wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 8:53 pm
watchnerd wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 7:14 pm
OldSport wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 6:48 pm

Have you test driven an Acura MDX Sport-Hybrid? That is a fun SUV to drive, at least for me.
I haven't driven that one, just the regular MDX. Is there a big difference?
Very much so, IMHO. They are completely different cars. The MDX SH-AWD drives better than the regular MDX, and the MDX Sport Hybrid is amazing, much better than the SH-AWD one. That is my experience.
Thanks for opening my eyes to this model. I only knew about the vanilla MDX, which would be mostly a lateral move from the Murano I have now. But the stats for the MDX Sports Hybrid looks really interesting:

Power: 321 HP
MPG: 26 MPG city
0-60 mph in 6.1 seconds

Double-clutch AWD, active suspension

Presumably Honda-like reliability
Exactly. Very much like the MDX Sport Hybrid. The 2018 model adds Apple Carplay & Android Auto & some other tech if you care about that.

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Re: I Want to Buy a Horrible, Expensive Car

Post by Taylor Larimore » Sun Dec 31, 2017 10:45 pm

ge1:

If you go to Edmonds you will discover that the Land Rover you are thinking about may cost you over $10,000/year for the first five years.

https://www.edmunds.com/land-rover/disc ... st-to-own/

Something to think about.

Happy New Year!

Taylor
"Simplicity is the master key to financial success." -- Jack Bogle

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Re: I Want to Buy a Horrible, Expensive Car

Post by watchnerd » Mon Jan 01, 2018 1:23 am

OldSport wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 10:06 pm
watchnerd wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 9:10 pm
OldSport wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 8:53 pm
watchnerd wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 7:14 pm
OldSport wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 6:48 pm

Have you test driven an Acura MDX Sport-Hybrid? That is a fun SUV to drive, at least for me.
I haven't driven that one, just the regular MDX. Is there a big difference?
Very much so, IMHO. They are completely different cars. The MDX SH-AWD drives better than the regular MDX, and the MDX Sport Hybrid is amazing, much better than the SH-AWD one. That is my experience.
Thanks for opening my eyes to this model. I only knew about the vanilla MDX, which would be mostly a lateral move from the Murano I have now. But the stats for the MDX Sports Hybrid looks really interesting:

Power: 321 HP
MPG: 26 MPG city
0-60 mph in 6.1 seconds

Double-clutch AWD, active suspension

Presumably Honda-like reliability
Exactly. Very much like the MDX Sport Hybrid. The 2018 model adds Apple Carplay & Android Auto & some other tech if you care about that.
I do.

Apple Carplay is high on my list of preferred integrations. OEM car manufacture navigation seems to lag behind smart phones, and at great expense, to boot.
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Re: I Want to Buy a Horrible, Expensive Car

Post by westcoast » Mon Jan 01, 2018 1:26 am

No don’t buy it. Complete waste of money, buy a new Honda Pilot or CRV.

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Re: I Want to Buy a Horrible, Expensive Car

Post by OldSport » Mon Jan 01, 2018 1:35 am

westcoast wrote:
Mon Jan 01, 2018 1:26 am
No don’t buy it. Complete waste of money, buy a new Honda Pilot or CRV.
Landrover? Agree, a complete waste of money.

Acura MDX Sport Hybrid SH-AWD? Not at all if you're a car person, enjoy vehicle performance, and can easily afford it without impacting other financial goals like the OP. Great gas mileage in city for an SUV as well. That is fun to drive as well, at least for me. If you only get the Tech trim Sport Hybrid, which is all I need, it isn't that much more expensive than the top of the line Pilot, and a hell of a lot more fun to drive, at least for my wants & needs.

Is it the most Boglehead thing to do, if you view vehicles as utilitarian transportation? No. But I think it is a good value for what it is, compared to alternatives if you appreciate, value, and can afford a nicer vehicle with good performance.

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Re: I Want to Buy a Horrible, Expensive Car

Post by watchnerd » Mon Jan 01, 2018 3:53 am

OldSport wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 10:06 pm


Exactly. Very much like the MDX Sport Hybrid. The 2018 model adds Apple Carplay & Android Auto & some other tech if you care about that.
The online configurator doesn't seem to allow the hybrid engine choice..... :(
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