Fuel Additives for 2017 Toyota Camry

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fandango
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Fuel Additives for 2017 Toyota Camry

Post by fandango » Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:04 pm

I just had my first 5000 mile maintenance at a Toyota dealership. Part of my free maintenance foe 2 years/24,000 miles.

The service technician said that I should add a gasoline additive to my 2017 Camry every 6 months. He said that ethanol could separate from gasoline interact with bacteria and cause engine problems with my 2017 Camry. The additive was supposed to prevent this, and cost $16.95. I refused to purchase the additive.

I drive about 10,000 miles a year, mainly in the Southeast.

I have owned Toyotas for 30 years a have never had to add anything to the fuel system. Even in some very frigid NE US states.
Is an additive a new requirement to protect my engine and fuel system? This sounds like a way to boost profits at the dealership.

I have really loved my Toyotas over the years, but this interaction left a sour taste in my mouth.

chevca
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Re: Fuel Additives for 2017 Toyota Camry

Post by chevca » Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:19 pm

Sounds like a sales pitch to me.

Unless the car was to sit for months at a time, I don't think any additives are needed.

sport
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Re: Fuel Additives for 2017 Toyota Camry

Post by sport » Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:43 pm

Check your owner's manual. If such additives are required, it will tell you that. Many years ago, I had a dealer add an oil additive without asking permission. I became aware of it when it appeared on my bill. My owner's manual said such additives "were neither needed nor recommended". I complained and they removed the charge. It seems that this might be a similar situation.

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bob60014
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Re: Fuel Additives for 2017 Toyota Camry

Post by bob60014 » Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:00 pm

A $6 can of SeaFoam in the gas tank once a year once you hit 30,000 miles......maybe! But really, nothing is needed.

Mr.Wu
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Re: Fuel Additives for 2017 Toyota Camry

Post by Mr.Wu » Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:06 pm

This is enough reason to stay away from this dealership. When he told you this nonsense he must think you have zero knowledge of cars....

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Re: Fuel Additives for 2017 Toyota Camry

Post by brad.clarkston » Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:08 pm

sport wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:43 pm
Check your owner's manual. If such additives are required, it will tell you that. Many years ago, I had a dealer add an oil additive without asking permission. I became aware of it when it appeared on my bill. My owner's manual said such additives "were neither needed nor recommended". I complained and they removed the charge. It seems that this might be a similar situation.
+1 this.

Mr. Benedictine
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Re: Fuel Additives for 2017 Toyota Camry

Post by Mr. Benedictine » Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:11 pm

I wouldn’t let $16.95 sour your taste for Toyota, one of the best auto brands in the world. I’m skeptical about the additive myself. Dealerships are full of people with opinions. These cars have been a financial blessing to my household. I will continue to buy them (as long as they keep delivering bullet-proof reliability at a fair price) and I will follow the advice of the maintenance schedule and not an individual with an opinion.

TBillT
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Re: Fuel Additives for 2017 Toyota Camry

Post by TBillT » Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:19 pm

I agree this is strange recommendation. The question is: is this a dealer recommendation, or Toyota USA recommendation?
Ethanol separation can be a problem for a lawn mowers, but these days your car fuel tank is a complex system and does not usually allow exposure to air (moisture).

One thing you can do is check your usual gasoline stations to see if they are listed on TopTierGas.com
TopTierGas.com stations add adequate detergent additives - to clean out piston deposits.
If your station is not TopTierGas.com, then it is possible you might want to add some detergent (Techron) yourself once in a while.
I don't add anything and I have a Toyota.

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whodidntante
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Re: Fuel Additives for 2017 Toyota Camry

Post by whodidntante » Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:28 pm

When you read the owner's manual, what did it say?

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baconavocado
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Re: Fuel Additives for 2017 Toyota Camry

Post by baconavocado » Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:29 pm

This is nothing but a huge profit generator for the dealership. You can't even tell if they put anything in the tank! If they did, it probably cost them less than a dollar even though they're charging you $17.

When I bought my first new car back in the 80s, I wanted to do everything by the book so I took it to the dealer for the recommended "dealer service" at the specified intervals. It didn't take me long to realize that they were doing (claiming to do) a bunch of things that either didn't need to be done according to the maintenance schedule and/or could not be verified. There was a long list of about 30 items, of which 2 were actual work and the other 28 were "inspections". One of the items was a $20 can of gas additive. After that I stopped going in for their dealer service and just took it to a non-dealer mechanic for valve adjustments and the other actual maintenance items that needed to be done.

Sorry if this sounds cynical but I've known guys who worked as auto mechanics and you wouldn't believe the stories.

Longtermgrowth
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Re: Fuel Additives for 2017 Toyota Camry

Post by Longtermgrowth » Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:24 pm

If you use top tier fuel, throwing a fuel system cleaner in once a year at your annual mileage may not even have much to clean. http://www.toptiergas.com

I would never pay dealer for an additive that's more than likely very similar to techron complete fuel system cleaner. The trick is to find one of the few that contain PEA (polyetheramine). I believe another one with higher amounts of PEA is gumout regane high mileage fuel system cleaner.

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bottlecap
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Re: Fuel Additives for 2017 Toyota Camry

Post by bottlecap » Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:28 pm

No additive necessary.

You went to a dealer. What did you expect? Honesty?!?

Additives are not needed. If you are super anal, buy only top tier gas. Or buy non-top tier and put a bottle of Techron in the tank every six months. You can get 6 bottles for about $16.95 at Costco.

But neither are necessary. Especially in a Toyota.

JT

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FrugalInvestor
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Re: Fuel Additives for 2017 Toyota Camry

Post by FrugalInvestor » Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:30 pm

Save your money.
IGNORE the noise! | Our life is frittered away by detail... simplify, simplify. - Henry David Thoreau

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Re: Fuel Additives for 2017 Toyota Camry

Post by Benton Bair » Fri Dec 08, 2017 12:01 am

I would ask the Service Advisor to verify the need for Service Technician's recommendation. Maybe Toyota issued a Technical Service Bulletin for additional service care. Things are learned after car is manufactured and Owners Manual is printed.

My dealership Service Advisor knows I expect car to be inspected and serviced as well as an aircraft. They know I care and am willing to pay more for manufacturer trained service. I deal with one person and he knows he's accountable. I treat him with respect and value his advice. Safety and convenience are highly valued.

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jabberwockOG
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Re: Fuel Additives for 2017 Toyota Camry

Post by jabberwockOG » Fri Dec 08, 2017 12:28 am

I use bottle of Techron concentrate fuel system cleaner in a full tank of gas twice a year. Techron along with a couple of others, like Regane, contain PEA (polyetheramine) an additive that has been shown by some test/studies to improve engine performance. They are fairly inexpensive to use and my cars run smooth as silk even with 100k+ miles on of some of them.

iamlucky13
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Re: Fuel Additives for 2017 Toyota Camry

Post by iamlucky13 » Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:59 am

Your instinct was right. This is an unnecessary add-on sale like extended warranties on consumer goods, promoted by taking advantage of customer uncertainty.

If you prodded the right way, you might be able to get him to realize he's trying to convince you Toyota's have a defect no other cars have. Customers sometimes played a similar angle against me back when I worked in retail and had to push extended warranties at customers obnoxiously hard.

The issues with ethanol apply to older cars not designed to be compatible with ethanol-added fuel, or when storing for extended periods of time. If you're going well over a month between fill-ups, I'd consider getting a stabilizer additive. Over long periods of time, water can gradually build up in the fuel by condensing out of the air, and some compounds in the fuel can break down and form gummy deposits, but at 10,000 miles a year, that concern doesn't apply to you. You can get it from an autoparts store for a fraction of the price and add it yourself.

The polyetheramine-based additives others mentioned are different from stabilizers. Their main purpose is to reduce the build up of deposits in your engine, which helps with fuel consumption and performance. The EPA sets a minimum level of PEA or similar additives in gasoline sold in the US, so you're already getting some. The automakers did their own research in the 90's and found there is additional benefits to more than the minimum, and created the Top Tier spec in response that an increasing number of fuel brands have started getting certified to. Look for Top Tier branding at gas stations in your area if you want to go this route.

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fandango
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Re: Fuel Additives for 2017 Toyota Camry

Post by fandango » Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:04 am

The owner's manual only says to use "top tier" gasoline with at least a rating of 87 octane. I use Exxon so quality of gas is not an issue.

I have an email into Toyota USA asking the same question that I have asked here. I will let you know what they say.

I will probably be taking my business to another service advisor or another dealer.

Thanks for you comments and suggestions.

barnaclebob
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Re: Fuel Additives for 2017 Toyota Camry

Post by barnaclebob » Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:18 am

Lol, bacteria in the gas tank, that's a new one for me.* Leave this place a 1 star review on google and/or yelp and never go back. Also I'm not sure if ethanol will actually separate from gas.

*Yes I'm sure there is some bacteria that can live in these conditions but I doubt it would pose a problem to a car unless you are really special.

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fandango
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UPDATE: Fuel Additives for 2017 Toyota Camry

Post by fandango » Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:34 am

I got a quick reply from Toyota. They called to ask me some more questions about my email.

They said that "no gasoline additives were required for my vehicle" and that Toyota USA would be following up with the dealer. Whether this will do any good or not remains to be seen.

I was impressed, however, with the quick response from Toyota USA. I really did not expect to hear back from them for a while.

Thanks for the comments and advice.

TBillT
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Re: Fuel Additives for 2017 Toyota Camry

Post by TBillT » Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:45 am

The southeast Toyota dealer district, if that's whee you are, has somewhat of a maverick reputation.

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jabberwockOG
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Re: Fuel Additives for 2017 Toyota Camry

Post by jabberwockOG » Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:46 am

Many dealers across multiple brands like to sell on chemical fuel treatments to customers because they are a big profit. This is a very common widespread practice at dealers. The most common product sold at dealers is a can of BG44, where a dealer may charge you $40 per treatment. This is significantly more expensive than something like Regane or Techron that likely produces exact same results purchased at Walmart for 6-7 bucks.

Dealers and some independent shops do offer an injector cleaning service using a machine that connects directly to the car's fuel rail and cleans injectors under pressure. They may try to sell this service as a preventative but that is unnecessary and just a way for them to increase profits. The only time you need something like that is if engine running rough and it's throwing a code indicating fuel system or injection issue - at that point might be a good idea first step to try injector cleaning machine process before changing out injectors.

As someone else posted it is a good idea to use only Tier 1 branded gas if possible because it contains the "better" additive package than most generic low end gas "minimum" additive pack at retail outlets. Note that despite what all the silly marketing hype and TV commercials want you to believe, all gas is absolutely identical in every gas station in a region because it all comes from exact same local gas wholesaler via the one pipeline in that region. The only difference is the quality of the additive pack added into the gas when it is pumped into the truck to be delivered to a specific branded retail outlet may be different.

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Re: Fuel Additives for 2017 Toyota Camry

Post by Frisco Kid » Fri Dec 08, 2017 10:10 am

Ethanol separation can be a problem but typically in older vehicles with rubber parts in their fuel systems and when cars are stored. If you run through a tank monthly you should be fine. Any issues would be covered under warranty initially anyways.

barnaclebob
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Re: Fuel Additives for 2017 Toyota Camry

Post by barnaclebob » Fri Dec 08, 2017 12:56 pm

Frisco Kid wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 10:10 am
Ethanol separation can be a problem but typically in older vehicles with rubber parts in their fuel systems and when cars are stored. If you run through a tank monthly you should be fine. Any issues would be covered under warranty initially anyways.
Is that the ethanol actually separating from the gas or water that collects in the fuel separating from the fuel?

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bottlecap
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Re: Fuel Additives for 2017 Toyota Camry

Post by bottlecap » Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:09 pm

barnaclebob wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:18 am
Lol, bacteria in the gas tank, that's a new one for me.* Leave this place a 1 star review on google and/or yelp and never go back. Also I'm not sure if ethanol will actually separate from gas.

*Yes I'm sure there is some bacteria that can live in these conditions but I doubt it would pose a problem to a car unless you are really special.
That was my thought, too, but apparently ethanol does pose a bacteria risk based on some google searches. Sounds like mostly for diesel. It can affect fuel pumps. Certainly not something that will cause 99% of people any problems.

JT

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sunny_socal
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Re: Fuel Additives for 2017 Toyota Camry

Post by sunny_socal » Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:40 pm

Just stick with good gas (eg. Chevron, Shell, even Costco) and you're GTG. No additives needed.

Dealers buy product from companies like BG and are then obliged to sell it to their customers. There must be enough people who accept the additional services/products to justify the racket. It don't think they are harmful, they're just not necessary.

Confession: I do dump in a bottle of "Techron" once in a while because Costco has them.

lazydavid
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Re: Fuel Additives for 2017 Toyota Camry

Post by lazydavid » Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:51 pm

Don't bother with additives unless there's a specific problem you're trying to solve. I haven't put fuel additive in a gasoline car in almost two decades. However, I add 4 oz of Diesel Kleen to every tank in my car in the winter only--it runs more smoothly in the cold weather with it than without, and it reduces the chance of fuel gelling.

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Re: Fuel Additives for 2017 Toyota Camry

Post by H-Town » Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:01 pm

fandango wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:04 pm
I just had my first 5000 mile maintenance at a Toyota dealership. Part of my free maintenance foe 2 years/24,000 miles.

The service technician said that I should add a gasoline additive to my 2017 Camry every 6 months. He said that ethanol could separate from gasoline interact with bacteria and cause engine problems with my 2017 Camry. The additive was supposed to prevent this, and cost $16.95. I refused to purchase the additive.

I drive about 10,000 miles a year, mainly in the Southeast.

I have owned Toyotas for 30 years a have never had to add anything to the fuel system. Even in some very frigid NE US states.
Is an additive a new requirement to protect my engine and fuel system? This sounds like a way to boost profits at the dealership.

I have really loved my Toyotas over the years, but this interaction left a sour taste in my mouth.
Use good quality gas (Shell, Exxon, etc.) rather than no name gas (Kroger, Wal-mart, etc.). If you always use no name gas, use additive once in a while. It cost $5-$10 depends on where you get it. If you don't, 20k-30k miles later, you might need to replace some parts, such as oxigen sensor, etc.

supertreat
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Re: Fuel Additives for 2017 Toyota Camry

Post by supertreat » Fri Dec 08, 2017 3:36 pm

Even w/ my rudimentary understanding of microbiology. I'm fairly certain there aren't any bacteria that can thrive in an environment of gasoline and ethanol.
Assets - Liabilities = Equity + (Income - Expenses)

IMO
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Re: Fuel Additives for 2017 Toyota Camry

Post by IMO » Fri Dec 08, 2017 4:41 pm

Thanks for posting this question, it made me look up some things, including this link: http://clark.com/cars/top-tier-fuel-detergent-gas/

1. As others have mentioned, the ethanol/water concern is an issue for engines/gas that are stored for long periods (ATV's, boats, etc in winter, cars stored longer periods) and this is likely more of a concern in cold climates.
2. All gas is not equal. Usually the discussion is about should one pay for higher octane than is manufacturer recommended? (No benefit seen). I was under the presumption gas has to be produced to certain standards, as it does. However, the detergent type additive level is a minimum, except for Top Tier gasoline (Never had heard that name before this thread) which has a higher minimum level.
3. AAA did a study and non-Top Tier brand gas did significantly cause more engine deposits of potential real concern.
Note the link for this is within the link above.
4. Top Tier gas brands are fairly common fortunately (link does list those). For me: ARCO (cash only) who has some of the least expensive gas, fortunately does use Top Tier gasoline per their website. Costco is Top Tier. Sams Club is UNKNOWN at the present time because it doesn't seem to come up with an on-line search (I'll have to find out, as get gas there frequently and did just sign up for their Mastercard credit card with gives another 5% off gas-fortunately at any gas station).

Prior to this thread, I would has dismissed any supplementary additives (added by a consumer to a full tank of gas). HOWEVER, based on the AAA study, it does leave open the thought that if Top Tier gas was better with the higher baseline level of detergent additives, IS IT IN FACT BETTER (??), to consider at least the periodic addition to a full tank of gas, one of a those aftermarket gas detergent products?

Does anyone know of a link to any good studies done concerning the aftermarket gas additives?

EDIT: Found this new study concerning: (Anyone able to access the study for findings and post - I can't open ) (Edit #2, looks like it costs $27 to get findings :annoyed )

Direct Injection Spark Ignition (DISI) engines are known to be sensitive to injector fouling. To evaluate the effectiveness of detergent additives and the influence of fuel parameters on injector fouling, a new DISI engine test has been developed, using a 2.0 l stoichiometric homogeneous DI engine on a test bench. Severe engine running conditions have been found to lead to a high amount of deposits on the injector nozzle over a short period of time (“one day” procedure). Injector fouling is measured using a fuel flow measurement procedure representative of injector operating conditions (opening time and pressure). This procedure has proved to be reliable and repeatable with different gasoline fuels and additives being evaluated. The influence of the base fuel and the effect of the composition and the dosages levels of detergent additives (keep-clean and clean-up properties) are demonstrated with the test method.
https://doi.org/10.4271/2003-01-2006
Last edited by IMO on Fri Dec 08, 2017 5:02 pm, edited 4 times in total.

WhiteMaxima
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Re: Fuel Additives for 2017 Toyota Camry

Post by WhiteMaxima » Fri Dec 08, 2017 4:42 pm

No need if you run 1st tier gas.

TBillT
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Re: Fuel Additives for 2017 Toyota Camry

Post by TBillT » Fri Dec 08, 2017 5:20 pm

supertreat wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 3:36 pm
Even w/ my rudimentary understanding of microbiology. I'm fairly certain there aren't any bacteria that can thrive in an environment of gasoline and ethanol.
Well microbial growth in fuels is a generic problem, apparently including E10 gaso in some cases, but I don't think it a big deal in your car's gaso tank.

Spirit Rider
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Re: Fuel Additives for 2017 Toyota Camry

Post by Spirit Rider » Fri Dec 08, 2017 5:24 pm

Actual engine tear-downs have shown that if you don't use top-tier gasoline, you will get varnish and carbon build-up.

Varnish and carbon build-up is cumulative and while not as good as never letting the build-up occur with top-tier gasoline, fuel system treatments can remove a substantial amount of the build-up.

When I used to commute, I generally used top-tier gasoline. I usually kept my vehicles to ~150K miles. I would do a fuel system treatment at 50K and 100K. It seemed to help.

Now, that I don't commute, I do not have top-tier gasoline availabile on the routes I take 80% - 90% of the time. So I do use a fuel system treatment to coincide with every oil change.

Obviously, I haven't done a tear-down. However, I do see an improvement in idle and engine smoothness and throttle response after treatment. Therefore, I follow the SR rules of fuel system treatment.

Rule 1: Use top-tier gasoline if possible.
Rule 2: Occasional fuel treatment will help if you can't follow follow rule 1.
Rule 3: if you are following Rule 1, fuel system treatment is mostly unnecessary and a waste of money.

kjvmartin
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Re: Fuel Additives for 2017 Toyota Camry

Post by kjvmartin » Fri Dec 08, 2017 5:32 pm

Is the car turbo?

I own my first turbo engine in my Equinox and the owners manual recommends either top tier fuel or AC Delco fuel cleaner at regular intervals. I fill at Costco 99% of the time, which is top tier fuel.

kjvm

IMO
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Re: Fuel Additives for 2017 Toyota Camry

Post by IMO » Sat Dec 09, 2017 2:54 am

OP, not sure what Toyota manual says, but this is from Hyundai's manual for a 2017 car:

"Using Fuel Additives (except Detergent Fuel Additives) Using fuel additives such as: - Silicone fuel additive - Ferrocene (iron-based) fuel additive - Other metallic-based fuel additives may result in cylinder misfire, poor acceleration, engine stalling, damage to the catalyst, or abnormal corrosion, and may cause damage to the engine resulting in a reduction in the overall life of the powertrain. - The Malfunction Indicator Lamp (MIL) may illuminate.

Damage to the fuel system or performance problem caused by the use of these fuels or fuel additives may not be covered by your New Vehicle Limited Warranty.
Gasoline containing MMT Some gasoline contains harmful manganese-based fuel additives such as MMT (Methylcyclopentadienyl Manganese Tricarbonyl). HYUNDAI does not recommend the use of gasoline containing MMT. This type of fuel can reduce vehicle performance and affect your emission control system. The malfunction indicator lamp on the cluster may come on.

Detergent Fuel Additives HYUNDAI recommends that you use good quality gasolines treated with detergent additives such as TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline, which help prevent deposit formation in the engine. These gasolines will help the engine run cleaner and enhance performance of the Emission Control System. For more information on TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline, please go to the website (www.toptiergas.com).

For customers who do not use TOP Tier Detergent Gasoline regularly, and have problems starting or the engine does not run smoothly, detergent-based fuel additives that you can purchase separately may be added to the gasoline. If TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline is not available, one bottle of additive added to the fuel tank at every 7,500 miles or 12 months is recommended.
Additives are available from your authorized HYUNDAI dealer along with information on how to "

iskey
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Re: Fuel Additives for 2017 Toyota Camry

Post by iskey » Sat Dec 09, 2017 9:29 am

So this service technician, not knowing whether or not you typically use Top Tier gasoline was right to recommend a fuel additive in my opinion. Better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it, "mama used to say".

lazydavid
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Re: Fuel Additives for 2017 Toyota Camry

Post by lazydavid » Sat Dec 09, 2017 9:55 am

Spirit Rider wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 5:24 pm
Actual engine tear-downs have shown that if you don't use top-tier gasoline, you will get varnish and carbon build-up.

Varnish and carbon build-up is cumulative and while not as good as never letting the build-up occur with top-tier gasoline, fuel system treatments can remove a substantial amount of the build-up.
Carbon build-up is primarily a problem for Direct Injection (DI) engines, and the reason it is a problem is because no fuel (and therefore no detergents) ever pass through the intake tract. Using top tier fuel and adding a detergent additive with every tank won't change this one iota. The only practical way to avoid carbon build-up in these engines is to either disable EGR (Exhaust Gas Recirculation)--which will throw a fault code--or drive at wide-open throttle at all times, which keeps the EGR valve closed.

alfaspider
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Re: Fuel Additives for 2017 Toyota Camry

Post by alfaspider » Sat Dec 09, 2017 9:59 am

thangngo wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:01 pm
fandango wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:04 pm
I just had my first 5000 mile maintenance at a Toyota dealership. Part of my free maintenance foe 2 years/24,000 miles.

The service technician said that I should add a gasoline additive to my 2017 Camry every 6 months. He said that ethanol could separate from gasoline interact with bacteria and cause engine problems with my 2017 Camry. The additive was supposed to prevent this, and cost $16.95. I refused to purchase the additive.

I drive about 10,000 miles a year, mainly in the Southeast.

I have owned Toyotas for 30 years a have never had to add anything to the fuel system. Even in some very frigid NE US states.
Is an additive a new requirement to protect my engine and fuel system? This sounds like a way to boost profits at the dealership.

I have really loved my Toyotas over the years, but this interaction left a sour taste in my mouth.
Use good quality gas (Shell, Exxon, etc.) rather than no name gas (Kroger, Wal-mart, etc.). If you always use no name gas, use additive once in a while. It cost $5-$10 depends on where you get it. If you don't, 20k-30k miles later, you might need to replace some parts, such as oxigen sensor, etc.
Where do you think Kroger gets their gas? The Kroger refinery?

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bottlecap
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Re: Fuel Additives for 2017 Toyota Camry

Post by bottlecap » Sat Dec 09, 2017 10:00 am

iskey wrote:
Sat Dec 09, 2017 9:29 am
So this service technician, not knowing whether or not you typically use Top Tier gasoline was right to recommend a fuel additive in my opinion. Better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it, "mama used to say".
Not really. The car has 5000 miles on it. It needs no additive. I’ve run for hundreds of thousands of miles without regard to top tier gas. Plus, the additive was supposedly for bacteria, not carbon deposits.

JT

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bottlecap
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Re: Fuel Additives for 2017 Toyota Camry

Post by bottlecap » Sat Dec 09, 2017 10:07 am

alfaspider wrote:
Sat Dec 09, 2017 9:59 am
Where do you think Kroger gets their gas? The Kroger refinery?
Kroger stores source their gas from multiple places. You could be getting top tier, but you might not be.

I'm not convinced top tier is necessary, but there does seem to be a difference. If anyone is worried about it, I suspect as long as you are not buying exclusively from a Kroger that doesn't have top tier, it'll be fine.

JT

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Re: Fuel Additives for 2017 Toyota Camry

Post by Spirit Rider » Sat Dec 09, 2017 10:20 am

lazydavid wrote:
Sat Dec 09, 2017 9:55 am
Carbon build-up is primarily a problem for Direct Injection (DI) engines, and the reason it is a problem is because no fuel (and therefore no detergents) ever pass through the intake tract. Using top tier fuel and adding a detergent additive with every tank won't change this one iota. The only practical way to avoid carbon build-up in these engines is to either disable EGR (Exhaust Gas Recirculation)--which will throw a fault code--or drive at wide-open throttle at all times, which keeps the EGR valve closed
No, this is not "primarily" a DI engine problem. Tear-down analysis has been done long before DI engines were commonly available. DI may have its own problems, but that does not diminish the potential build-up problems Top-tier gasoline detergents mitigate.

lazydavid
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Re: Fuel Additives for 2017 Toyota Camry

Post by lazydavid » Sat Dec 09, 2017 10:38 am

Spirit Rider wrote:
Sat Dec 09, 2017 10:20 am
No, this is not "primarily" a DI engine problem. Tear-down analysis has been done long before DI engines were commonly available. DI may have its own problems, but that does not diminish the potential build-up problems Top-tier gasoline detergents mitigate.
We'll have to agree to disagree. The incidence of carbon build-up requiring manual cleaning is several orders of magnitude higher in DI engines than in all other types. There are many individual engine models that have near 100% incidence of buildup resulting in rough running or thrown codes within the first 100k miles, and quite a few that do so in under 50k--mine is starting to show signs that it needs a second cleaning, and is currently at 80k. This is not even remotely true for other designs.

As over a third of all cars sold are now equipped with DI, CBU has indeed become a problem that primarily afflicts DI engines. Saying detergents are less relevant than they used to be is not the same thing as saying they're irrelevant in all cases.

neilpilot
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Re: Fuel Additives for 2017 Toyota Camry

Post by neilpilot » Sat Dec 09, 2017 11:04 am

bottlecap wrote:
Sat Dec 09, 2017 10:07 am
alfaspider wrote:
Sat Dec 09, 2017 9:59 am
Where do you think Kroger gets their gas? The Kroger refinery?
Kroger stores source their gas from multiple places. You could be getting top tier, but you might not be.

Actually, in many locations Kroger deliveries always come from the same facility. Alternate facilities would incur excessive transport cost.

However, the source of the gas isn't the whole story. When our local refinery loads a tanker, that tanker load is dosed with an additive package that varies depending on the particular contract. I know for a fact that several different brands of TopTier retailers get their loads from the same facility. I do not know what additive package goes into the Kroger loads.

Based on price both my cars are fueled Kroger 95% of the time. I'm not too worried about additive differences.

This from a ChemE who retired from a company that, among other things, makes additives for several fuel vendors.

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fandango
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Re: Fuel Additives for 2017 Toyota Camry

Post by fandango » Wed Dec 20, 2017 7:43 pm

FINAL UPDATE:

I just heard back again from Toyota He said: "Fuel additives are neither required nor recommended for your 2017 Toyota Camry. Period."

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Doom&Gloom
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Re: Fuel Additives for 2017 Toyota Camry

Post by Doom&Gloom » Wed Dec 20, 2017 9:09 pm

fandango wrote:
Wed Dec 20, 2017 7:43 pm
FINAL UPDATE:

I just heard back again from Toyota He said: "Fuel additives are neither required nor recommended for your 2017 Toyota Camry. Period."
Great! Now you know that service tech is a snake-oil salesman and that you should get a second opinion on any unexpected recommendations that he makes. I would do the same to anyone at that dealership as it is probably the service manager's policy for employees to push unnecessary products and services.

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tetractys
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Re: Fuel Additives for 2017 Toyota Camry

Post by tetractys » Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:03 am

fandango wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:04 pm
The service technician said that I should add a gasoline additive to my 2017 Camry every 6 months. He said that ethanol could separate from gasoline interact with bacteria and cause engine problems with my 2017 Camry. The additive was supposed to prevent this, and cost $16.95.
Ha ha, that's quite funny!!! -- Tet

ssquared87
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Re: Fuel Additives for 2017 Toyota Camry

Post by ssquared87 » Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:24 am

As most posters mentioned, its marketing BS, but I would stay with using Top Tier Fuels.

And if the engine dies because you didn't use fuel additives, well then consider yourself lucky and replace it with a better and more fun car like a civic or mazda

Wallyt4r
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Re: Fuel Additives for 2017 Toyota Camry

Post by Wallyt4r » Sat Dec 23, 2017 1:18 am

Well whether its necessary or not I do use a fuel system additive....I use Amsoil P.I. after every oil change in my 4Runner. It's about
$10 a bottle and I consider part of the price for the oil change. I used it once on an old car that I just bought and it improved the mileage and performance of that car. I probably don't need to put it in every oil change. When I add this stuff I don't baby it. It keeps the fuel system healthy. YMMV but this stuff works. I also use it in my motorcycle. :sharebeer

harrington
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Re: Fuel Additives for 2017 Toyota Camry

Post by harrington » Sat Dec 23, 2017 7:05 am

Stealership

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wander
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Re: Fuel Additives for 2017 Toyota Camry

Post by wander » Sat Dec 23, 2017 11:29 am

Your car is too new for additive stuffs. It does not hurt but does not benefit your car either; however, it does hurt your pocket.

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