Past Perception of Automakers vs. Today
Past Perception of Automakers vs. Today
I know a lot of Bogleheads swear by Japanese cars for reliability and low cost to maintain.
Some also swear by German cars for the driving experience or luxury. Some also curse them for cost to maintain or unreliability.
I hear a lot of bad anecdotes about American cars but this might be old outdated advice.
How much truth is there to these anecdotes?
Are Ford/Chevy/Dodge that bad today?
Are German cars that great and that bad out of warranty today?
Are Japanese cars that reliable and inexpensive today?
Just interested to see what others think and do some car talk. Nothing serious. Remember one of the Boglehead rules is that past performance doesn't equal future performance. Just because a vehicle was (un)reliable in the 90's and 2000's doesn't mean it is today.
Some also swear by German cars for the driving experience or luxury. Some also curse them for cost to maintain or unreliability.
I hear a lot of bad anecdotes about American cars but this might be old outdated advice.
How much truth is there to these anecdotes?
Are Ford/Chevy/Dodge that bad today?
Are German cars that great and that bad out of warranty today?
Are Japanese cars that reliable and inexpensive today?
Just interested to see what others think and do some car talk. Nothing serious. Remember one of the Boglehead rules is that past performance doesn't equal future performance. Just because a vehicle was (un)reliable in the 90's and 2000's doesn't mean it is today.
Re: Past Perception of Automakers vs. Today
Have a fair amount of experience on doing the analysis on this, while combing through millions of records of data on cars.
Asian Cars > US > Europe for vehicles sold in the US. There's a lot of truth to the perception. Some US manufacturers are better than others. Same for the Asian brands.
US trucks are better than the other brands. The past hasn't changed compared to the future. There's a strong correlation between the more expensive the car is, the less reliable it probably is.
Asian Cars > US > Europe for vehicles sold in the US. There's a lot of truth to the perception. Some US manufacturers are better than others. Same for the Asian brands.
US trucks are better than the other brands. The past hasn't changed compared to the future. There's a strong correlation between the more expensive the car is, the less reliable it probably is.
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Re: Past Perception of Automakers vs. Today
I think the major difference is that good and bad are much more model specific than in the "old days" when domestic meant manufactured in the US and import meant imported. Do your research.
Re: Past Perception of Automakers vs. Today
Yes Toyota/Lexus is consistently at the top while Honda seems to be slipping a bit lately. Not sure if they haven't paid up to Consumer Reports or if it's a real issue. Buick has really been rated highly lately, but I find that surprising because Chevy hasn't seemed to. I am not sure what "initial quality" even means. I want to know what cars will last nearly 400k miles and 20 years with minimal surprises.Oblivious wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2017 8:07 pm Have a fair amount of experience on doing the analysis on this, while combing through millions of records of data on cars.
Asian Cars > US > Europe for vehicles sold in the US. There's a lot of truth to the perception. Some US manufacturers are better than others. Same for the Asian brands.
US trucks are better than the other brands. The past hasn't changed compared to the future. There's a strong correlation between the more expensive the car is, the less reliable it probably is.
Last edited by Alexa9 on Tue Dec 05, 2017 8:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Past Perception of Automakers vs. Today
I think the 'Asian cars good, everything else bad' theory is way out of date. I've found this site to have good reliability data that broadly agrees with the overall market perception in most cases, and seems very good at identifying the problem models. http://www.dashboard-light.com
This is what their overall manufacturer chart looks like. Note that there are Asian, American, and European manufacturers in both the top and bottom tiers.
This is what their overall manufacturer chart looks like. Note that there are Asian, American, and European manufacturers in both the top and bottom tiers.
Re: Past Perception of Automakers vs. Today
Interesting, but I wonder how they measure these ratings fairly. Touch screen issues are less of a problem than powertrain failures. German luxury cars definitely have a lot more technology to be fair (more to go wrong).onourway wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2017 8:15 pm I think the 'Asian cars good, everything else bad' theory is way out of date. I've found this site to have good reliability data that broadly agrees with the overall market perception in most cases, and seems very good at identifying the problem models. http://www.dashboard-light.com
This is what their overall manufacturer chart looks like. Note that there are Asian, American, and European manufacturers in both the top and bottom tiers.
Re: Past Perception of Automakers vs. Today
Take a look at Consumer Reports, maybe at a local library. Their annual automobile issue will give you a feel about how things are today.
My opinion based on last year's issue: Japanese cars are still doing well, but not the slam dunk they were just a few years ago. Some other Asian brands do pretty well at lower cost. Some American cars are closing in, but others, not so much. German cars are also slipping a bit from a few years back.
My opinion based on last year's issue: Japanese cars are still doing well, but not the slam dunk they were just a few years ago. Some other Asian brands do pretty well at lower cost. Some American cars are closing in, but others, not so much. German cars are also slipping a bit from a few years back.
“Love with your heart; Use your brain for everything else.” -Captain Disillusion
Re: Past Perception of Automakers vs. Today
They are fairly up-front with their method and limitations. Currently they measure powertrain reliability only. http://www.dashboard-light.com/click-here-first/
Re: Past Perception of Automakers vs. Today
My previous work involved vehicles through different mileage stages up to 200k in miles generally. Lexus is going to be worse than toyota. The more features in a vehicle=more things that can go wrong (even when they're nearly the same parts in both). Used to keep an internal log of where we thought consumer reports got it right or wrong. You're correct in that they can judge initial quality, where I got to see things from beginning to end on millions of data points. Consumer Reports did get it right most of the time though.Alexa9 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2017 8:14 pmYes Toyota/Lexus is consistently at the top while Honda seems to be slipping a bit lately. Not sure if they haven't paid up to Consumer Reports or if it's a real issue. Buick has really been rated highly lately, but I find that surprising because Chevy hasn't seemed to. I am not sure what "initial quality" even means. I want to know what cars will last nearly 400k miles and 20 years with minimal surprises.Oblivious wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2017 8:07 pm Have a fair amount of experience on doing the analysis on this, while combing through millions of records of data on cars.
Asian Cars > US > Europe for vehicles sold in the US. There's a lot of truth to the perception. Some US manufacturers are better than others. Same for the Asian brands.
US trucks are better than the other brands. The past hasn't changed compared to the future. There's a strong correlation between the more expensive the car is, the less reliable it probably is.
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Re: Past Perception of Automakers vs. Today
I've bought my Chevy Tahoe new in 2008 and just hit 100K miles a couple of weeks ago. Over the past ten years I've done only basic maintenance with only one larger repair covered under warranty around five years ago. My father had a 2005 Chevy Avalanche until last year with over 200K miles on it. He did begin to have to do major repairs such as the transmission in the last couple of years, but that's to be expected after ten years. My experience is American SUV's and trucks hold their value and require little maintenance. On the other hand, I would be more inclined to look at foreign made sedans. I think that has more to do with what I view as poor styling by American auto makers. With that said, I do plan to purchase a Tesla Model 3 once they become more widely available and I can get one that is a couple of years old.
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Re: Past Perception of Automakers vs. Today
I’ve only seen this with 7.3l Fords.Championship0911 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2017 8:28 pm My experience is American SUV's and trucks hold their value
Was in the market for a full size SUV last year. Surburban/Tahoe/Expiditions 3 years old were 50% of their value. Honda Pilot was around 95% and ended up being cheaper to buy new when you factor in better interest rate on new vehicles.
Re: Past Perception of Automakers vs. Today
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