Want to build dream workshop/garage, but don't know how to start

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bhsince87
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Want to build dream workshop/garage, but don't know how to start

Post by bhsince87 »

I'm a few months or years away from early retirement, and my dreams don't include much travelling. I want to spend my time making things. So I want to build a workshop, but I have no idea where to begin!

I'm thinking of a building around 30X50 feet, 10-15 feet tall, with some garage type doors so part of it can be used as a garage.

I've got the land and the spot picked out. I will need to have some massive trees taken down first.

I think I want it heated and cooled, maybe with water/plumbing, but that is all flexible.

Looking at a budget of $50-75k.

Any contractors out there with experience in this sort of thing that can give some advice as to how to get the ball rolling? Or anyone who has done something similar?

Thanks in advance for any advice!
Time is what we want most, but what we use worst. William Penn
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Sandtrap
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Re: Want to build dream workshop/garage, but don't know how to start

Post by Sandtrap »

bhsince87 wrote: Sun Nov 19, 2017 8:42 pm I'm a few months or years away from early retirement, and my dreams don't include much travelling. I want to spend my time making things. So I want to build a workshop, but I have no idea where to begin!

I'm thinking of a building around 30X50 feet, 10-15 feet tall, with some garage type doors so part of it can be used as a garage.

I've got the land and the spot picked out. I will need to have some massive trees taken down first.

I think I want it heated and cooled, maybe with water/plumbing, but that is all flexible.

Looking at a budget of $50-75k.

Any contractors out there with experience in this sort of thing that can give some advice as to how to get the ball rolling? Or anyone who has done something similar?

Thanks in advance for any advice!
Concrete slab (fibercrete) reinforced.
Install power, water, drain lines first before slab.
Plumbing: pex tubing.
Slope slab slightly toward the doors so water will always drain out and also for washdown if needed.
Minimum 2x6 stud walls, steel or wood. Foam insulation in walls and ceiling.
Skylights if you want good light, double insulated. Open beam a consideration. Foam between the roof trusts or attic deck if putting an attic.
Power: 220 volt, 110volt, 20 amp circuits, lots of them on individual breakers.
Bathroom. Washtub for cleaning up.
Epoxy coating on the slab for easy cleaning.
Large windows for lot's of natural light.
Regular 3-0 x 6-8 exterior door besides the garage doors.
Standing Seam forever roof. Gutters with downspouts and drains to get the water away from the slab.
Stucco exterior with color in the mix so you never have to paint it, or metal siding, or synthetic horizontal siding.
Sidewalk around the exterior so weeds and bushes don't grow up the walls.
Outside frost free water spigots for wash down.
Slab driveway up to the building.
Exterior lights, floodlights, motion lights, security camera.
WiFi extender or other so you have internet access.
Heat/AC as needed.
Lots and lots of overhead lighting inside.
Fire sprinkler system.
If a separate sewer for drain, then an RV dump pipe just outside the garage door in case you have a very cool Roadtrek RV and need to dump the waste tanks.
Note: if you play golf make the ceiling at least 12 feet so a commercial driving range net/cage will fit. Multi purpose building.
Go even higher if you plan to put a slide in camper on a pickup truck or back in an rv trailer.

Steps:
1> Draw out what you want on graph paper to scale. Floorplan. Elevations. Details.
1b: go to the site, put stakes and string lines down to imagine what you want. All this preplanning is free.
2> Write out or list your wants and needs. More specific the better down to what and what type of everything.
3> Enlist a draftsman or architect $$ if you don't have the skills to do this.
4> Get at least 3 bids from licensed, insured, bonded, General Building Contractors. Check their work and past projects.
The Contractors may also help you with your plans and permits.
5> If you are familiar with building and know what you want in detail, you can do it as an "owner-builder" and get bids for the sitework, slab, frame up and finish, roofing, electrical, and plumbing. Save a lot of $$ that way. Again, make sure all are licensed, insured contractors. "No Handyman".
6> Enlist a draftsman. Run the permits yourself.

I am in the process of building a similar "man cave" :D
Retired General Contractor.
Last edited by Sandtrap on Sun Nov 19, 2017 9:22 pm, edited 10 times in total.
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CaliJim
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Re: Want to build dream workshop/garage, but don't know how to start

Post by CaliJim »

I had a feeling SandTrap would chime in.

Are you going to build it yourself or hire out the work?

Your budget of $50/sq ft seems about OK for a moderate cost of living area, perhaps assuming unfinished and no insulation. Where I'm at... contractors won't even talk to you if that's all you want to spend. :(

You'll need a set of plans to get a permit. And contractors will need a set of plans to bid the work. I'd suggest you get a set of plans.

Contact a design/build firm in your area, or an home designer/architect.

You could also shop for plans online....just googled and found this:

https://www.thegarageplanshop.com/garage-plans.php?
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Re: Want to build dream workshop/garage, but don't know how to start

Post by MotoTrojan »

bhsince87 wrote: Sun Nov 19, 2017 8:42 pm I'm a few months or years away from early retirement, and my dreams don't include much travelling. I want to spend my time making things. So I want to build a workshop, but I have no idea where to begin!

I'm thinking of a building around 30X50 feet, 10-15 feet tall, with some garage type doors so part of it can be used as a garage.

I've got the land and the spot picked out. I will need to have some massive trees taken down first.

I think I want it heated and cooled, maybe with water/plumbing, but that is all flexible.

Looking at a budget of $50-75k.

Any contractors out there with experience in this sort of thing that can give some advice as to how to get the ball rolling? Or anyone who has done something similar?

Thanks in advance for any advice!
What are you making? Wood? Metal?
123
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Re: Want to build dream workshop/garage, but don't know how to start

Post by 123 »

What space do you presently use for a workshop/garage? Do you really need more than you presently have?
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bhsince87
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Re: Want to build dream workshop/garage, but don't know how to start

Post by bhsince87 »

CaliJim wrote: Sun Nov 19, 2017 8:55 pm I had a feeling SandTrap would chime in.

Are you going to build it yourself or hire out the work?

Your budget of $50/sq ft seems about OK for a moderate cost of living area, perhaps assuming unfinished and no insulation. Where I'm at... contractors won't even talk to you if that's all you want to spend. :(

You'll need a set of plans to get a permit. And contractors will need a set of plans to bid the work. I'd suggest you get a set of plans.

Contact a design/build firm in your area, or an home designer/architect.

You could also shop for plans online....just googled and found this:

https://www.thegarageplanshop.com/garage-plans.php?
I don't think I want to build it myself. But if an early retirement package comes out the is year, I just might! I am in a low cost area. Throwing out a $50k budget should get me a lot of interest. But I don't think I want to tell them I'm willing to go to $70k...
Time is what we want most, but what we use worst. William Penn
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bhsince87
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Re: Want to build dream workshop/garage, but don't know how to start

Post by bhsince87 »

MotoTrojan wrote: Sun Nov 19, 2017 8:56 pm
bhsince87 wrote: Sun Nov 19, 2017 8:42 pm I'm a few months or years away from early retirement, and my dreams don't include much travelling. I want to spend my time making things. So I want to build a workshop, but I have no idea where to begin!

I'm thinking of a building around 30X50 feet, 10-15 feet tall, with some garage type doors so part of it can be used as a garage.

I've got the land and the spot picked out. I will need to have some massive trees taken down first.

I think I want it heated and cooled, maybe with water/plumbing, but that is all flexible.

Looking at a budget of $50-75k.

Any contractors out there with experience in this sort of thing that can give some advice as to how to get the ball rolling? Or anyone who has done something similar?

Thanks in advance for any advice!
What are you making? Wood? Metal?

Both! The metal work will be smaller stuff, like jewellery. But I also make furniture.
Time is what we want most, but what we use worst. William Penn
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bhsince87
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Re: Want to build dream workshop/garage, but don't know how to start

Post by bhsince87 »

123 wrote: Sun Nov 19, 2017 8:59 pm What space do you presently use for a workshop/garage? Do you really need more than you presently have?
My current wood working shop is 24X30 foot in our basement. It is packed to the gills. Lots of wood I would like to get out of the house too.

I also have a 10X16 space there wheree I do metal working.

My wife has an ebay business and we are running out of storage space for her inventory. So I am thinking of moving my stuff out of the basement and turning it over to her. We'd be able to deduct that then as a business expense, as opposed to my hobbies.
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Re: Want to build dream workshop/garage, but don't know how to start

Post by bhsince87 »

Thank you Sandtrap! That's actually more advice than I was hoping for!! :happy
Time is what we want most, but what we use worst. William Penn
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Re: Want to build dream workshop/garage, but don't know how to start

Post by Sandtrap »

bhsince87 wrote: Sun Nov 19, 2017 9:18 pm Thank you Sandtrap! That's actually more advice than I was hoping for!! :happy
You're welcome. I used to design and build stores, food courts, and buildings, so I hope I didn't get too carried away.
"Dream workshop" has a heavy drool factor. :D
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Tamales
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Re: Want to build dream workshop/garage, but don't know how to start

Post by Tamales »

There's a TV show called Rough Cut, and an entire season was devoted to multiple episodes where the host built a new shop.
It looks like all the episodes are available online: http://tommymac.us/rough-cut-woodworkin ... season-07/
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Re: Want to build dream workshop/garage, but don't know how to start

Post by 123 »

Question to the OP: Just out of curiosity how far away from your primary home is the lot where you will put the workshop? I'm thinking this is a great way for you to have your own private space with piece and quiet while your spouse gets to integrate her business needs into your home's basement. It sounds like when you go full bore on your hobby space you'll be out of the house for most of the day, kinda like going to work. The whole day to do what you please as you see fit with no interference, sounds pretty good to me!
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Re: Want to build dream workshop/garage, but don't know how to start

Post by bubbadog »

If local zoning allows, you may want to consider a "pole barn". Cost of construction can be much less than building with footers/foundation/etc.. On the outside, you can finish it with most siding and roofing materials to match/compliment your home. A lot of the building supply stores around me will have plans that you can customize to fit your needs. They will be able to give you a price on the materials as a total package. Just an idea to consider.
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bhsince87
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Re: Want to build dream workshop/garage, but don't know how to start

Post by bhsince87 »

123 wrote: Sun Nov 19, 2017 11:16 pm Question to the OP: Just out of curiosity how far away from your primary home is the lot where you will put the workshop? I'm thinking this is a great way for you to have your own private space with piece and quiet while your spouse gets to integrate her business needs into your home's basement. It sounds like when you go full bore on your hobby space you'll be out of the house for most of the day, kinda like going to work. The whole day to do what you please as you see fit with no interference, sounds pretty good to me!

About 80 feet from our house. And yes, the thought of isolation is a big part of my motivation (and hers too, btw).

I might also find more time to practice my banjo!!!
Time is what we want most, but what we use worst. William Penn
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bhsince87
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Re: Want to build dream workshop/garage, but don't know how to start

Post by bhsince87 »

bubbadog wrote: Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:07 am If local zoning allows, you may want to consider a "pole barn". Cost of construction can be much less than building with footers/foundation/etc.. On the outside, you can finish it with most siding and roofing materials to match/compliment your home. A lot of the building supply stores around me will have plans that you can customize to fit your needs. They will be able to give you a price on the materials as a total package. Just an idea to consider.
Pole barns are pretty common around here, and that is something I am considering.
Time is what we want most, but what we use worst. William Penn
pshonore
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Re: Want to build dream workshop/garage, but don't know how to start

Post by pshonore »

First thing to do is check with local zoning/building dept on what is allowed. Where I live, there is a limit on what can be put on a residential lot for an accessory building in terms of square footage and height. I don't think a 30 X 50 building would cut it; height cannot exceed 15 feet. There may also be regulations on including a bathroom particularly if a septic system is involved.
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Re: Want to build dream workshop/garage, but don't know how to start

Post by Jack FFR1846 »

Have you looked for a commercial building for sale or lease that might fit the bill? I'd think it would be cheaper and if you go the rental route, you'd have an escape plan if you decide to downside on the work.
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Inverted Pyramid
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Re: Want to build dream workshop/garage, but don't know how to start

Post by Inverted Pyramid »

A great community with a lot of Garage build threads, most from empty lot to finish structure so you can see what went wrong and what went right. plus tons of tool discussions https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/for ... ay.php?f=7
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Re: Want to build dream workshop/garage, but don't know how to start

Post by elcadarj »

How large are the trees to be removed? And would any part of the slab span their location? If so be sure to remove the stumps and backfill with an appropriate structural fill to avoid settling. Most tree services around here grind the stumps in place which leaves too much organic material in the soil. When it decomposes the the area settles. In other words if you want the building to last, do proper site preparation.
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bhsince87
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Re: Want to build dream workshop/garage, but don't know how to start

Post by bhsince87 »

pshonore wrote: Mon Nov 20, 2017 10:23 am First thing to do is check with local zoning/building dept on what is allowed. Where I live, there is a limit on what can be put on a residential lot for an accessory building in terms of square footage and height. I don't think a 30 X 50 building would cut it; height cannot exceed 15 feet. There may also be regulations on including a bathroom particularly if a septic system is involved.

Good points! We are zoned ag/light industrial, so I am good to go with a large building. We are on septic, so that will be something I need to check out.
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bhsince87
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Re: Want to build dream workshop/garage, but don't know how to start

Post by bhsince87 »

Jack FFR1846 wrote: Mon Nov 20, 2017 10:30 am Have you looked for a commercial building for sale or lease that might fit the bill? I'd think it would be cheaper and if you go the rental route, you'd have an escape plan if you decide to downside on the work.
I have considered that. I don't want to rent. Need to keep cash flow low.

I almost bought a place down the road from us a few months ago. 2 acres, 1000 sqft house, 1500 sqft workshop, and 2,000 sq ft barn. For $160k! But it sold literally 2 days after it came on the market. I also looked at something similar 5-6 years ago, but my finances weren't as solid as now.

I've decided that for convenience, it makes more sense to build new. I do plan to make it possible to add garage doors later to turn it into a multi-car garage.
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Re: Want to build dream workshop/garage, but don't know how to start

Post by bhsince87 »

elcadarj wrote: Mon Nov 20, 2017 10:44 am How large are the trees to be removed? And would any part of the slab span their location? If so be sure to remove the stumps and backfill with an appropriate structural fill to avoid settling. Most tree services around here grind the stumps in place which leaves too much organic material in the soil. When it decomposes the the area settles. In other words if you want the building to last, do proper site preparation.
Thanks for the tip! They are huge trees. 20-30 inch diameter oaks, 70-80 feet tall. The slab would definitely be over top the stump area. So this is something I need to contend with.

BTW, I also have $5000 budgeted for a saw mill and $2000 for a kiln! I want to eventually make my own wood for projects. We have 12 acres of such trees.
Time is what we want most, but what we use worst. William Penn
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Re: Want to build dream workshop/garage, but don't know how to start

Post by Hug401k »

My father did this exact thing. He skipped the sewer line and instead added built in vacuum. I'm not sure of the technical term for that.
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Re: Want to build dream workshop/garage, but don't know how to start

Post by Sandtrap »

bhsince87 wrote: Mon Nov 20, 2017 7:58 pm
elcadarj wrote: Mon Nov 20, 2017 10:44 am How large are the trees to be removed? And would any part of the slab span their location? If so be sure to remove the stumps and backfill with an appropriate structural fill to avoid settling. Most tree services around here grind the stumps in place which leaves too much organic material in the soil. When it decomposes the the area settles. In other words if you want the building to last, do proper site preparation.
Thanks for the tip! They are huge trees. 20-30 inch diameter oaks, 70-80 feet tall. The slab would definitely be over top the stump area. So this is something I need to contend with.

BTW, I also have $5000 budgeted for a saw mill and $2000 for a kiln! I want to eventually make my own wood for projects. We have 12 acres of such trees.
RE: building over a former tree site.
The root spread of a tree is at least or greater than if it was turned upside down into the ground with the branches of roots. If possible, as much of the root as possible should be removed and then backfilled with compacted washed ABC gravel fill. Imagine a great big hollow soft spot as all the prior root and tree material degrades over time in the ground.
Depending on the local soil upheaval characteristics, you may consider either deep footings and/or a grade beam style slab to keep it stable. Also a good idea to pay a few dollars extra for "fibercrete" add mix in the concrete when it's ordered besides having wire mesh and rebar reinforcement. The "fibercrete" is a synthetic chopped fiber that's added to the cement at the plant and helps minimize cracking. Also a substantial amount of expansion joints so cracks will tend to form on those lines. Many slabs eventually crack and "craze" to some degree so best to take measures beforehand.
Also, "formosan ground termites" live in tree roots. I have seen buildings end up with severe termite problems when built over treed sites. A vapor barrier between compacted fill and slab will help prevent them coming up thru the cracks. Also pretreat the ground if there are any infestations discovered before the pour.

That's a lot of beautiful free oak available to you for fine woodworking. :D
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Watty
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Re: Want to build dream workshop/garage, but don't know how to start

Post by Watty »

Just a couple of suggestions.

1) Start watching Craigslist and estate sales for people that are have shops like that where they are trying to sell the tools. Making the building is one thing but once it is done you will need to fill it with your toys.

2) You likely don't expect to get much of the money back when you sell the property but having a large shop like that can be a negative for some people which could make the property harder to sell. When you are designing it think of how the building might be repurposed some day for things like, living space, art studio, RV storage, boat storage, horse barn, etc and try to design it so that changing it for other uses would easier.
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where to begin

Post by FraggleRock »

I would suggest planning for 2 years before building.
I planned for over 2 years before renovating 1/2 our kitchen.
Paper is cheap.
Concrete and wood is not.
Read a lot.
Take notes.
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bhsince87
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Re: Want to build dream workshop/garage, but don't know how to start

Post by bhsince87 »

Sandtrap wrote: Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:34 pm
RE: building over a former tree site.
The root spread of a tree is at least or greater than if it was turned upside down into the ground with the branches of roots. If possible, as much of the root as possible should be removed and then backfilled with compacted washed ABC gravel fill. Imagine a great big hollow soft spot as all the prior root and tree material degrades over time in the ground.
Depending on the local soil upheaval characteristics, you may consider either deep footings and/or a grade beam style slab to keep it stable. Also a good idea to pay a few dollars extra for "fibercrete" add mix in the concrete when it's ordered besides having wire mesh and rebar reinforcement. The "fibercrete" is a synthetic chopped fiber that's added to the cement at the plant and helps minimize cracking. Also a substantial amount of expansion joints so cracks will tend to form on those lines. Many slabs eventually crack and "craze" to some degree so best to take measures beforehand.
Also, "formosan ground termites" live in tree roots. I have seen buildings end up with severe termite problems when built over treed sites. A vapor barrier between compacted fill and slab will help prevent them coming up thru the cracks. Also pretreat the ground if there are any infestations discovered before the pour.

That's a lot of beautiful free oak available to you for fine woodworking. :D
Thank you for your sage advice! We live on a slight plateau on the Eastern side of the Blue Ridge. There are only 8-12 inches of soil until you hit boulders. So it's not too hard to scrape down to solid stuff, even with a skidsteer.

On the other hand, this makes pole buildings questionable....

We currently have about 45 nice trees down. When they reach a certain size and age(about 150 years), they get uprooted because of the shallow soil.
Time is what we want most, but what we use worst. William Penn
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bhsince87
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Re: Want to build dream workshop/garage, but don't know how to start

Post by bhsince87 »

Watty wrote: Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:00 pm Just a couple of suggestions.

1) Start watching Craigslist and estate sales for people that are have shops like that where they are trying to sell the tools. Making the building is one thing but once it is done you will need to fill it with your toys.

2) You likely don't expect to get much of the money back when you sell the property but having a large shop like that can be a negative for some people which could make the property harder to sell. When you are designing it think of how the building might be repurposed some day for things like, living space, art studio, RV storage, boat storage, horse barn, etc and try to design it so that changing it for other uses would easier.
Thank you! I already own almost all the tools I want. Except for the sawmill.... But it's currently tight, noisy, and dusty in the house.

The potential repurposing is worrying me a bit. I think that building in the potential to add garage doors at some point is a no brainer. But adding water/sewer is a tough one. I need some actual quotes for that decision, I think.
Time is what we want most, but what we use worst. William Penn
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bhsince87
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Re: where to begin

Post by bhsince87 »

FraggleRock wrote: Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:08 pm I would suggest planning for 2 years before building.
I planned for over 2 years before renovating 1/2 our kitchen.
Paper is cheap.
Concrete and wood is not.
Read a lot.
Take notes.
I've been planning it for about 20 years! :)

But I get your point, and it's a good one. I'm just now getting serious about making it a reality, and I don't want to make any stupid decisions just to hit some artificial timeline.
Time is what we want most, but what we use worst. William Penn
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Re: Want to build dream workshop/garage, but don't know how to start

Post by Sandtrap »

bhsince87 wrote: Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:10 pm
Sandtrap wrote: Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:34 pm
RE: building over a former tree site.
The root spread of a tree is at least or greater than if it was turned upside down into the ground with the branches of roots. If possible, as much of the root as possible should be removed and then backfilled with compacted washed ABC gravel fill. Imagine a great big hollow soft spot as all the prior root and tree material degrades over time in the ground.
Depending on the local soil upheaval characteristics, you may consider either deep footings and/or a grade beam style slab to keep it stable. Also a good idea to pay a few dollars extra for "fibercrete" add mix in the concrete when it's ordered besides having wire mesh and rebar reinforcement. The "fibercrete" is a synthetic chopped fiber that's added to the cement at the plant and helps minimize cracking. Also a substantial amount of expansion joints so cracks will tend to form on those lines. Many slabs eventually crack and "craze" to some degree so best to take measures beforehand.
Also, "formosan ground termites" live in tree roots. I have seen buildings end up with severe termite problems when built over treed sites. A vapor barrier between compacted fill and slab will help prevent them coming up thru the cracks. Also pretreat the ground if there are any infestations discovered before the pour.

That's a lot of beautiful free oak available to you for fine woodworking. :D
Thank you for your sage advice! We live on a slight plateau on the Eastern side of the Blue Ridge. There are only 8-12 inches of soil until you hit boulders. So it's not too hard to scrape down to solid stuff, even with a skidsteer.

On the other hand, this makes pole buildings questionable....

We currently have about 45 nice trees down. When they reach a certain size and age(about 150 years), they get uprooted because of the shallow soil.
Good to know. Decades ago I was called in to consult on a very ornate concrete church built on a former treed site. Massive termite damage throughout the building even though it was cement. And ground settling issues on the foundation. There was no fix because sitework was done wrong to start.
Pole buildings and post n beam construction are good for some sites but not always. There are pros and cons to them. They are very earthquake and storm resistant because they flex and move, if built right. But they also have their own unique issues.
j
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FraggleRock
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Re: where to begin

Post by FraggleRock »

bhsince87 wrote: Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:17 pmI've been planning it for about 20 years!
You have detailed drawings?
You have itemized components? Down to the drywall screws?
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Re: where to begin

Post by bhsince87 »

FraggleRock wrote: Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:31 pm
bhsince87 wrote: Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:17 pmI've been planning it for about 20 years!
You have detailed drawings?
You have itemized components? Down to the drywall screws?
No, of course not. Like I said, I mostly know what I want, and I have a budget in mind, but I don't even know where to start in making that concept a reality.

Who should I work with first?
Time is what we want most, but what we use worst. William Penn
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Sandtrap
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Re: where to begin

Post by Sandtrap »

bhsince87 wrote: Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:36 pm
FraggleRock wrote: Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:31 pm
bhsince87 wrote: Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:17 pmI've been planning it for about 20 years!
You have detailed drawings?
You have itemized components? Down to the drywall screws?
No, of course not. Like I said, I mostly know what I want, and I have a budget in mind, but I don't even know where to start in making that concept a reality.

Who should I work with first?
Go to the proposed site. Stake out your building with a 5 gallon bucket of orange plastic site pegs from Home Depot. (metal stakes get lost and then end up in a truck tire) Buy braided nylon colored line. String it to make your building outline. Imagine the placement and size and within it what you might want. Where the doors are and all that. Use the ground as your scratch paper. Then measure everything and transfer it to a pad of graph paper. Buy a small triangle ruler. The one marked with scales. 1/4" per foot, etc. That and a pad of graph paper and a tape rule or longer nylon measuring rule is all you need to do all your thinking. Draw out the building outline. Then scribble in where the doors and windows go. Where you want a bathroom. Stuff like that. Just scribbles and notes, but to scale. On another steno pad or such write down what you want as it occurs. Maybe a large window facing the view. Measure it out. 6 feet wide, 4 feet high?. Just use your visualization which you already do great because of your woodwork and shop skills.
Sometimes just bring a chair and your bucket and pads and sit on the site with your pads and pencil. The more you do this the better your project will go and the cheaper it will be because you won't make severe changes midstream. It will all be thought out. Like your woodworking. Visualize and create. Start from the ground up. Baby steps. It will build itself in your mind.
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bhsince87
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Re: where to begin

Post by bhsince87 »

Sandtrap wrote: Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:47 pm
bhsince87 wrote: Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:36 pm
FraggleRock wrote: Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:31 pm
bhsince87 wrote: Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:17 pmI've been planning it for about 20 years!
You have detailed drawings?
You have itemized components? Down to the drywall screws?
No, of course not. Like I said, I mostly know what I want, and I have a budget in mind, but I don't even know where to start in making that concept a reality.

Who should I work with first?
Go to the proposed site. Stake out your building with a 5 gallon bucket of orange plastic site pegs from Home Depot. (metal stakes get lost and then end up in a truck tire) Buy braided nylon colored line. String it to make your building outline. Imagine the placement and size and within it what you might want. Where the doors are and all that. Use the ground as your scratch paper. Then measure everything and transfer it to a pad of graph paper. Buy a small triangle ruler. The one marked with scales. 1/4" per foot, etc. That and a pad of graph paper and a tape rule or longer nylon measuring rule is all you need to do all your thinking. Draw out the building outline. Then scribble in where the doors and windows go. Where you want a bathroom. Stuff like that. Just scribbles and notes, but to scale. On another steno pad or such write down what you want as it occurs. Maybe a large window facing the view. Measure it out. 6 feet wide, 4 feet high?. Just use your visualization which you already do great because of your woodwork and shop skills.
Sometimes just bring a chair and your bucket and pads and sit on the site with your pads and pencil. The more you do this the better your project will go and the cheaper it will be because you won't make severe changes midstream. It will all be thought out. Like your woodworking.
Thank You Sandtrap!

Very useful advice! I'm an engineer, so I already have graph paper and triangles, and I know how to use them.

Once I get that sketch worked out, then who should I contact? A general contractor?
Time is what we want most, but what we use worst. William Penn
renue74
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Re: Want to build dream workshop/garage, but don't know how to start

Post by renue74 »

All great suggestions so far. I'll suggest something you may not think about...start a Pinterest board.

Every little detail you find, you can Pin it and revisit it during design. You'll find that you don't like things you thought you did months ago. But your board is a great visual.
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Re: Want to build dream workshop/garage, but don't know how to start

Post by Sandtrap »

Very useful advice! I'm an engineer, so I already have graph paper and triangles, and I know how to use them.

Once I get that sketch worked out, then who should I contact? A general contractor?
Okay. I've also done this in Autocad but that might be overkill.
The General Contractor can only build what you as an engineer can best design. And, as you know, if you leave things up to the fabricator to make up what is missing in your designs and specs, doom will follow. Same here.
The basics are at least one page for each of the following. Visual plans to scale. Specs for each phase. (explanations descriptions and lists)
You sort of build it in your mind and then just sketch and list as you go like doing a concept to real on Autocad in engineering design. (did this)
Sitework:
First it's all from a skyview. Flat plane look.
sketch the property out to the property lines. Locate structures. New structure and orientation and distances to closest property line.
Spec what is to be done to the building site. Clear and grade to undisturbed soil. Backfill with s4c gravel fill, prep, etc.
Sketch the building concrete slab and perimeter footings as well as any structural footing areas on the center line or other where posts or load bearing walls will land.
Spec that the slab will have #3 or #4 rebar in the footings to code, 4x4 concrete wire mesh, 2000 psi min concrete with fibercrete ad mix and what finish, smooth or float or broom finish.
Sketch the location of utilities, power, water, sewer. If a bathroom or washsink then where they are so water and drains lines can be put in before concrete is poured. (rough in). Spec "pex tubing" for water, hot or cold or both. Where the subpanel will be for electric, etc. Anything that has to be put in before the concrete is poured. Add this to the spec descriptions and lists.
Next, sketch the floorplan on the slab. Exterior walls as double solid lines 6" apart if wall is 6" studs, then interior walls, with door openings, garage door openings. Usually garage doors are on even numbers but now can be ordered to about anything. 8-10-12, etc.
Spec all this out. What size window and what kind. Plastic frame double pane sliders or other. 3-0x6-8 exterior door, where, what kind, etc. And keep filling in everything on the spec and sketch.
Next another sketch. (new sheet) Skyview of the floorplan, dotted lines of the floorplan below. Solid lines represent what is above. How far the roofline extends (eaves). 2 feet? What kind of roof. Gable, Hip, etc?
Spec sheet the roof. Truss roof. 16" o.c. 1/2" or 3/4" OSB sheathing or other. What kind of roofing. Standing seam metal, asph/fib.shingles, what>? Any skylights. Roof vents. Ridge vents.
Next another sketch, again use the floorplan sheet as the template (new sheet). Layover the utilities. HVAC, plumbing, electrical, etc. Central heat/ac. Where is the unit located?
Sketch and spec for Electrical superimposed on the floorplan. (new sheet) Where are the outlets. What power do you need where?
Sketch and spec for Plumbing superimposed on the floorplan (new sheet) spec out Pex tubing for hot/cold water. Where's the sink. toilet. etc.
Sketch and spec for HVAC. you can put all this on one sheet but its better if each has it's own sheet and specs for clarity.
Sketch and spec 4 each for elevations looking at the building from each side. Include heights of doors and windows, roof, etc.'
Sketch and spec any pertinent details that should not be assumed. The can be a larger scale.
Like this. This is a preliminary plans and spec bundle. You can tidy everything up on new sheets and print out the specs. Make copies. This will be the bid bundle that you are giving to contractors. You can also give it to a draftsman who can convert your graph paper drawings with scale info to building plans which are actually the same thing on larger paper to scale. 1/4" per foot is the minimum standard to go by. If you have a drafting table or a flat table and a T square you can draw your own. The more you do this the more ideas you will get and the more you will see the building you want in your mind.
I'm sure I left stuff out but you get the idea. You can pay someone to do this, architect, etc. But as an engineer this is in your ballpark.
Last edited by Sandtrap on Mon Nov 20, 2017 10:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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sergeant
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Re: Want to build dream workshop/garage, but don't know how to start

Post by sergeant »

bhsince87 wrote: Sun Nov 19, 2017 8:42 pm I'm a few months or years away from early retirement, and my dreams don't include much travelling. I want to spend my time making things. So I want to build a workshop, but I have no idea where to begin!

I'm thinking of a building around 30X50 feet, 10-15 feet tall, with some garage type doors so part of it can be used as a garage.

I've got the land and the spot picked out. I will need to have some massive trees taken down first.

I think I want it heated and cooled, maybe with water/plumbing, but that is all flexible.

Looking at a budget of $50-75k.

Any contractors out there with experience in this sort of thing that can give some advice as to how to get the ball rolling? Or anyone who has done something similar?

Thanks in advance for any advice!
Go to Garage Journal website. They have all the information you could ever possibly need.
For the ashes of his fathers, And the temples of his gods. | Pensions= 2X yearly expenses. Portfolio= 40X yearly expenses.
vtjon
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Re: Want to build dream workshop/garage, but don't know how to start

Post by vtjon »

I'm working on something similar. I met with a Amish builder last weekend and they are going to be sending over a price. They resell/build a lot of the small garden type sheds that come on skids but they also do site builds as well. They also proposed a metal building too which is much cheaper at this size (20x40 in my case). I prefer the look of a stick built so we will see.

I will have to do my own prep work including concrete though. I do have to clear some trees but nothing too large and mostly pines.

I haven't research this too much but I am thinking about a "mini-split" for heating and cooling especially if I can get a Wifi thermostat so I can turn it on from the main house. :D
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bhsince87
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Re: Want to build dream workshop/garage, but don't know how to start

Post by bhsince87 »

Sandtrap wrote: Mon Nov 20, 2017 10:18 pm
Very useful advice! I'm an engineer, so I already have graph paper and triangles, and I know how to use them.

Once I get that sketch worked out, then who should I contact? A general contractor?
Okay. I've also done this in Autocad but that might be overkill.
The General Contractor can only build what you as an engineer can best design. And, as you know, if you leave things up to the fabricator to make up what is missing in your designs and specs, doom will follow. Same here.
The basics are at least one page for each of the following. Visual plans to scale. Specs for each phase. (explanations descriptions and lists)
You sort of build it in your mind and then just sketch and list as you go like doing a concept to real on Autocad in engineering design. (did this)
Sitework:
First it's all from a skyview. Flat plane look.
sketch the property out to the property lines. Locate structures. New structure and orientation and distances to closest property line.
Spec what is to be done to the building site. Clear and grade to undisturbed soil. Backfill with s4c gravel fill, prep, etc.
Sketch the building concrete slab and perimeter footings as well as any structural footing areas on the center line or other where posts or load bearing walls will land.
Spec that the slab will have #3 or #4 rebar in the footings to code, 4x4 concrete wire mesh, 2000 psi min concrete with fibercrete ad mix and what finish, smooth or float or broom finish.
Sketch the location of utilities, power, water, sewer. If a bathroom or washsink then where they are so water and drains lines can be put in before concrete is poured. (rough in). Spec "pex tubing" for water, hot or cold or both. Where the subpanel will be for electric, etc. Anything that has to be put in before the concrete is poured. Add this to the spec descriptions and lists.
Next, sketch the floorplan on the slab. Exterior walls as double solid lines 6" apart if wall is 6" studs, then interior walls, with door openings, garage door openings. Usually garage doors are on even numbers but now can be ordered to about anything. 8-10-12, etc.
Spec all this out. What size window and what kind. Plastic frame double pane sliders or other. 3-0x6-8 exterior door, where, what kind, etc. And keep filling in everything on the spec and sketch.
Next another sketch. (new sheet) Skyview of the floorplan, dotted lines of the floorplan below. Solid lines represent what is above. How far the roofline extends (eaves). 2 feet? What kind of roof. Gable, Hip, etc?
Spec sheet the roof. Truss roof. 16" o.c. 1/2" or 3/4" OSB sheathing or other. What kind of roofing. Standing seam metal, asph/fib.shingles, what>? Any skylights. Roof vents. Ridge vents.
Next another sketch, again use the floorplan sheet as the template (new sheet). Layover the utilities. HVAC, plumbing, electrical, etc. Central heat/ac. Where is the unit located?
Sketch and spec for Electrical superimposed on the floorplan. (new sheet) Where are the outlets. What power do you need where?
Sketch and spec for Plumbing superimposed on the floorplan (new sheet) spec out Pex tubing for hot/cold water. Where's the sink. toilet. etc.
Sketch and spec for HVAC. you can put all this on one sheet but its better if each has it's own sheet and specs for clarity.
Sketch and spec 4 each for elevations looking at the building from each side. Include heights of doors and windows, roof, etc.'
Sketch and spec any pertinent details that should not be assumed. The can be a larger scale.
Like this. This is a preliminary plans and spec bundle. You can tidy everything up on new sheets and print out the specs. Make copies. This will be the bid bundle that you are giving to contractors. You can also give it to a draftsman who can convert your graph paper drawings with scale info to building plans which are actually the same thing on larger paper to scale. 1/4" per foot is the minimum standard to go by. If you have a drafting table or a flat table and a T square you can draw your own. The more you do this the more ideas you will get and the more you will see the building you want in your mind.
I'm sure I left stuff out but you get the idea. You can pay someone to do this, architect, etc. But as an engineer this is in your ballpark.
Wow, thank you for taking the time to spell this out! This is very helpful!
Time is what we want most, but what we use worst. William Penn
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bhsince87
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Re: Want to build dream workshop/garage, but don't know how to start

Post by bhsince87 »

sergeant wrote: Mon Nov 20, 2017 10:20 pm
bhsince87 wrote: Sun Nov 19, 2017 8:42 pm I'm a few months or years away from early retirement, and my dreams don't include much travelling. I want to spend my time making things. So I want to build a workshop, but I have no idea where to begin!

I'm thinking of a building around 30X50 feet, 10-15 feet tall, with some garage type doors so part of it can be used as a garage.

I've got the land and the spot picked out. I will need to have some massive trees taken down first.

I think I want it heated and cooled, maybe with water/plumbing, but that is all flexible.

Looking at a budget of $50-75k.

Any contractors out there with experience in this sort of thing that can give some advice as to how to get the ball rolling? Or anyone who has done something similar?

Thanks in advance for any advice!
Go to Garage Journal website. They have all the information you could ever possibly need.
Just spent an hour there today on the advice of a previous poster. Good stuff!

I've learned I'vegot more research to do.

Thanks for sharing!
Time is what we want most, but what we use worst. William Penn
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bhsince87
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Re: Want to build dream workshop/garage, but don't know how to start

Post by bhsince87 »

vtjon wrote: Mon Nov 20, 2017 10:25 pm I'm working on something similar. I met with a Amish builder last weekend and they are going to be sending over a price. They resell/build a lot of the small garden type sheds that come on skids but they also do site builds as well. They also proposed a metal building too which is much cheaper at this size (20x40 in my case). I prefer the look of a stick built so we will see.

I will have to do my own prep work including concrete though. I do have to clear some trees but nothing too large and mostly pines.

I haven't research this too much but I am thinking about a "mini-split" for heating and cooling especially if I can get a Wifi thermostat so I can turn it on from the main house. :D
I'm in Amish land too. I've considered just bringing in a couple prefabs. One for metal working, one for woodworking, etc. But I think that sort of building would lose more value as time went on.

I'm also considering mini split for the workshop AND our house. Our house is a log home, 4,000 sg ft +. Currently using window ACs in the summer.
Time is what we want most, but what we use worst. William Penn
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elcadarj
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Re: Want to build dream workshop/garage, but don't know how to start

Post by elcadarj »

Sandtrap wrote: Mon Nov 20, 2017 10:18 pm
Very useful advice! I'm an engineer, so I already have graph paper and triangles, and I know how to use them.

Once I get that sketch worked out, then who should I contact? A general contractor?
.......
Sketch and spec for Electrical superimposed on the floorplan. (new sheet) Where are the outlets. What power do you need where?
Sketch and spec for Plumbing superimposed on the floorplan (new sheet) spec out Pex tubing for hot/cold water. Where's the sink. toilet. etc.
Sketch and spec for HVAC. you can put all this on one sheet but its better if each has it's own sheet and specs for clarity.
Sketch and spec 4 each for elevations looking at the building from each side. Include heights of doors and windows, roof, etc.'
Sketch and spec any pertinent details that should not be assumed. The can be a larger scale.
.......
+Sketch and spec for data networking.

I imagine that IoT is getting into shop equipment, too. Also you'll want to stream that ballgame as you hand sand for hours.
mrgeeze
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Re: Want to build dream workshop/garage, but don't know how to start

Post by mrgeeze »

bhsince87 wrote: Mon Nov 20, 2017 7:58 pm
elcadarj wrote: Mon Nov 20, 2017 10:44 am How large are the trees to be removed? And would any part of the slab span their location? If so be sure to remove the stumps and backfill with an appropriate structural fill to avoid settling. Most tree services around here grind the stumps in place which leaves too much organic material in the soil. When it decomposes the the area settles. In other words if you want the building to last, do proper site preparation.
Thanks for the tip! They are huge trees. 20-30 inch diameter oaks, 70-80 feet tall. The slab would definitely be over top the stump area. So this is something I need to contend with.

BTW, I also have $5000 budgeted for a saw mill and $2000 for a kiln! I want to eventually make my own wood for projects. We have 12 acres of such trees.

I am a long time wood hoarder having stashed piles of rough cut lumber up and down the east coast. I currently have thousands of board feet in a tobacco barn in southern maryland 400 miles from my current home. I hope I get it out of there before the owner (or I) dies.

For my $.02 I would skip the saw mill and kiln.

You can find local guys that will saw wood for about $.25 (plus or minus) per board foot at your space.
Usually there is a setup/travel charge and they charge you for broken bands (blades) in most cases.
Residential wood often has nails, hinges & other metals that are hard on saw bands
They have the rigs and Knowhow to do the job right.
Moving tree boles (16' sections) requires some skill.
Sawmills are unforgiving on your fingers.

I would suggest you at least contact a few in the neighborhood to look over your project before you start knocking down trees.
You'll learn quite a bit about the process just meeting them.
Call the band mill manufacturers (Wood Mizer is one). After they try to sell you a saw you can probably get names of local owners.
Look around , you'll find a couple near you.

As far as the kiln, definitely reconsider
Wood dries at about 1inch per year stickered and stacked. Covered is best.
Most of what you'll saw is 4/4 & 5/4 planks. They will take a year to dry out.
If you live in the west, probably less than a year.
Plus it will be at humidity equilibrium, very important.

If you meet with the guy before you take down the trees you can saw it , stack and sticker it, paint the ends and tarp it while all the other work goes on.
Your wood will be ready when you finish your shop.

Make sure you mark(number) the flitches as you cut them so you can match grain variation in neighboring boards.
A nice little touch in a piece if you come across some very elegant figure

Good product from a kiln is not guaranteed. Check out case hardening.
Been there, paid the price.

imo, most red oak is really firewood. If you really want some of it, saw it. Its really not the stuff of fine furniture.
Its checks and twists a lot while drying. Not like pecan or hickory but extra work to flatten on the jointer.
It can also delaminate (heartwood/sapwood separation) in the kiln if you're not careful.

Now, If you have some older white oaks, that is the stuff of rocking chairs and craftsmen settles and gliders.
Consider quarter sawing some of it. That will add a bit to the cost per foot, and reduce the yield but it will afford you vertical grain oak.
That is worth having.

I went on longer than I expected.
Good luck, I am truly envious.
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Will do good
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Re: Want to build dream workshop/garage, but don't know how to start

Post by Will do good »

Wow what a interesting thread, I feel like I want to build a workshop too.
p0nyboy
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Re: Want to build dream workshop/garage, but don't know how to start

Post by p0nyboy »

Make sure to put a tv out there...and if possible run some ethernet cable to the building. You can stream shows while you're out there. I have one for my garage gym and one for my other garage/shop. Also computers in each if you have them. I work in IT so I get all the out of warranty computers. I have a LOT...so when one dies I just fire a new one up. Makes it nice when you're working on something and want to watch a youtube instructional video.
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bhsince87
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Re: Want to build dream workshop/garage, but don't know how to start

Post by bhsince87 »

mrgeeze wrote: Tue Nov 21, 2017 11:05 am
bhsince87 wrote: Mon Nov 20, 2017 7:58 pm
elcadarj wrote: Mon Nov 20, 2017 10:44 am How large are the trees to be removed? And would any part of the slab span their location? If so be sure to remove the stumps and backfill with an appropriate structural fill to avoid settling. Most tree services around here grind the stumps in place which leaves too much organic material in the soil. When it decomposes the the area settles. In other words if you want the building to last, do proper site preparation.
Thanks for the tip! They are huge trees. 20-30 inch diameter oaks, 70-80 feet tall. The slab would definitely be over top the stump area. So this is something I need to contend with.

BTW, I also have $5000 budgeted for a saw mill and $2000 for a kiln! I want to eventually make my own wood for projects. We have 12 acres of such trees.

I am a long time wood hoarder having stashed piles of rough cut lumber up and down the east coast. I currently have thousands of board feet in a tobacco barn in southern maryland 400 miles from my current home. I hope I get it out of there before the owner (or I) dies.

For my $.02 I would skip the saw mill and kiln.

You can find local guys that will saw wood for about $.25 (plus or minus) per board foot at your space.
Usually there is a setup/travel charge and they charge you for broken bands (blades) in most cases.
Residential wood often has nails, hinges & other metals that are hard on saw bands
They have the rigs and Knowhow to do the job right.
Moving tree boles (16' sections) requires some skill.
Sawmills are unforgiving on your fingers.

I would suggest you at least contact a few in the neighborhood to look over your project before you start knocking down trees.
You'll learn quite a bit about the process just meeting them.
Call the band mill manufacturers (Wood Mizer is one). After they try to sell you a saw you can probably get names of local owners.
Look around , you'll find a couple near you.

As far as the kiln, definitely reconsider
Wood dries at about 1inch per year stickered and stacked. Covered is best.
Most of what you'll saw is 4/4 & 5/4 planks. They will take a year to dry out.
If you live in the west, probably less than a year.
Plus it will be at humidity equilibrium, very important.

If you meet with the guy before you take down the trees you can saw it , stack and sticker it, paint the ends and tarp it while all the other work goes on.
Your wood will be ready when you finish your shop.

Make sure you mark(number) the flitches as you cut them so you can match grain variation in neighboring boards.
A nice little touch in a piece if you come across some very elegant figure

Good product from a kiln is not guaranteed. Check out case hardening.
Been there, paid the price.

imo, most red oak is really firewood. If you really want some of it, saw it. Its really not the stuff of fine furniture.
Its checks and twists a lot while drying. Not like pecan or hickory but extra work to flatten on the jointer.
It can also delaminate (heartwood/sapwood separation) in the kiln if you're not careful.

Now, If you have some older white oaks, that is the stuff of rocking chairs and craftsmen settles and gliders.
Consider quarter sawing some of it. That will add a bit to the cost per foot, and reduce the yield but it will afford you vertical grain oak.
That is worth having.

I went on longer than I expected.
Good luck, I am truly envious.
I appreciate every word you took the time to write! Very good advice! Thank you.

I'm in Southern PA. I've got most every book written about amature wood processing, and I read the popular web sites. I have a little bit of experience with wood I've cut with a chainsaw mill. But paying someone else to cut while I watch and learn makes a lot of sense!
Time is what we want most, but what we use worst. William Penn
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bhsince87
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Re: Want to build dream workshop/garage, but don't know how to start

Post by bhsince87 »

p0nyboy wrote: Tue Nov 21, 2017 11:52 am Make sure to put a tv out there...and if possible run some ethernet cable to the building. You can stream shows while you're out there. I have one for my garage gym and one for my other garage/shop. Also computers in each if you have them. I work in IT so I get all the out of warranty computers. I have a LOT...so when one dies I just fire a new one up. Makes it nice when you're working on something and want to watch a youtube instructional video.
Was planning on a CAT5E run, and a local wireless router in the building.

I've got thousands of feet of cable from a previous job where I designed the stuff.

Per a previous comment, I probably ought to just run a data cable next to every power outlet.
Time is what we want most, but what we use worst. William Penn
rimfire
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Re: Want to build dream workshop/garage, but don't know how to start

Post by rimfire »

Hi bhsince87,

Fun project, sandtrap has pretty well summed up what you should look at.
I have been retired for 2 years and have had a 50x34 shop for the last 25 years. Spent a lots of time in in before retirement and lots more since retirement. Mine is divided into two parts a 34x20 wood shop and 34x30 metal shop with 10 x12 overhead door. I have two man doors but my experience is you only need one. Enter the wood shop through the metal shop
Besides the construction which sandtrap has excelled at giving you a clear picture.
A two piece bathroom is a must have. I have my under floor heating plant in my bathroom and it keeps it cosy compared to the rest of the shop area. Winter temperature in the shops 58F and bathroom 75F. Setback to 50F in the shops when I'm not there.You may need AC if you live in a hot area. Where we are good insulation keeps the shop cool in summer. Don't skimp on the insulation, cheaper to do at the construction phase than add more afterwards.
If you have underfloor heating then use solid foam insulation on the whole floor. My wood shop has plywood floor with crawl space rather than the concrete in the metal shop. Just love and wouldn't have it any other way now.
Lots of info around but take your time and make it yours rather than blindly following someone else's dream shop plans.
They are never too large however if you are not careful "stuff" will overtake your space. A separate area for finishing would be my only addition to the footprint I have. A lean-to on the side if you have an RV is great. That is my project for next summer, to house the truck camper.

All the best for your retirement, it is a blast, the available time seems to go very quickly, don't miss the previous daily grind at all even though I loved working at my day job.

Thanks jb
CurlyDave
Posts: 3182
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2016 11:37 am

Re: Want to build dream workshop/garage, but don't know how to start

Post by CurlyDave »

Just an off-the-wall consideration.

I recently bought a Quonset hut to set up as my shop. They come in all sizes and have low cost per sq. ft. In my case I have a rural location, and a location where only one end of the building will be visible. I intend to build a facade, and doors on that end, so it will look like a conventional building even though it will be industrial-looking inside.

Anyway, just a thought...
Answering a question is easy -- asking the right question is the hard part.
Topic Author
bhsince87
Posts: 2914
Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2013 1:08 pm

Re: Want to build dream workshop/garage, but don't know how to start

Post by bhsince87 »

rimfire wrote: Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:05 pm Hi bhsince87,

Fun project, sandtrap has pretty well summed up what you should look at.
I have been retired for 2 years and have had a 50x34 shop for the last 25 years. Spent a lots of time in in before retirement and lots more since retirement. Mine is divided into two parts a 34x20 wood shop and 34x30 metal shop with 10 x12 overhead door. I have two man doors but my experience is you only need one. Enter the wood shop through the metal shop
Besides the construction which sandtrap has excelled at giving you a clear picture.
A two piece bathroom is a must have. I have my under floor heating plant in my bathroom and it keeps it cosy compared to the rest of the shop area. Winter temperature in the shops 58F and bathroom 75F. Setback to 50F in the shops when I'm not there.You may need AC if you live in a hot area. Where we are good insulation keeps the shop cool in summer. Don't skimp on the insulation, cheaper to do at the construction phase than add more afterwards.
If you have underfloor heating then use solid foam insulation on the whole floor. My wood shop has plywood floor with crawl space rather than the concrete in the metal shop. Just love and wouldn't have it any other way now.
Lots of info around but take your time and make it yours rather than blindly following someone else's dream shop plans.
They are never too large however if you are not careful "stuff" will overtake your space. A separate area for finishing would be my only addition to the footprint I have. A lean-to on the side if you have an RV is great. That is my project for next summer, to house the truck camper.

All the best for your retirement, it is a blast, the available time seems to go very quickly, don't miss the previous daily grind at all even though I loved working at my day job.

Thanks jb

Sounds like some good, experienced advice. Thanks for sharing!
Time is what we want most, but what we use worst. William Penn
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