Do you meditate?

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roy11
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Re: Do you meditate?

Post by roy11 » Thu Nov 16, 2017 12:16 am

I've been doing yoga consistently for the past 3 years. I've suggested it my other family members too. Meditation is really good for your mind. You feel refreshed and focused.

letsgobobby
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Re: Do you meditate?

Post by letsgobobby » Thu Nov 16, 2017 1:11 am

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LawyersGunsAndMoney
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Re: Do you meditate?

Post by LawyersGunsAndMoney » Thu Nov 16, 2017 11:01 am

Yes, twice daily (in the morning and in the late afternoon). Usually do at home or as soon as I get to office, and then again in the afternoon in my office.

I got into the practice via the Headspace App, which I'd highly recommend for anyone just beginning.

I work in a frantic, high-stress field and have to say that taking up daily meditation and generally practicing mindfulness changed my personal and professional life.

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Re: Do you meditate?

Post by azurekep » Thu Nov 16, 2017 11:55 am

letsgobobby wrote:
Thu Nov 16, 2017 1:11 am
I am way too busy and stressed out to meditate.
No problem:

"Alexa, put me in a meditative state."

Or try one of the drive-thru centers. I think they're called "Om and Out". Kind of like Gas and Go.

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friar1610
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Re: Do you meditate?

Post by friar1610 » Thu Nov 16, 2017 9:25 pm

Limoncello402 wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 7:19 pm
Yes, everyday. I'm a Catholic and there is, of course, a 2000 year tradition of meditation and contemplation. I often meditate with the help of Bible passages and the mysteries of the Rosary--beautiful, very deep meditations. Contemplation is something different but related, and I do that in Holy Hours before the Real Presence. Meditation is easier for me since I am a "thinker."
About a million books on Catholic meditation exist. I'm sometimes amused that some consider it something cool and "new."
I download the "Pray as You Go" podcasts, produced by the English Jesuits, and listen to one every night at bedtime. It's a musical selection, a scripture reading and a few prompts for reflection. Probably not really meditating but it's calming and relaxing.

Edited to note: these podcasts are only 12-15 minutes long.
Last edited by friar1610 on Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Sandtrap
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Re: Do you meditate?

Post by Sandtrap » Thu Nov 16, 2017 9:50 pm

I downloaded the audiobooks "Sleep Learning System:" by Joel Thielke. Also the one's narrated by Rachael Meddows who has a very pleasant voice.
There have a variety of affirmations and self-meditations. I find the one's on anxiety, negativity, stress, healing, and sleep and relaxation are very useful. They do work at a subliminal level so are not recommended while driving. It's handy since it's on my iPhone and can play it through my ear bluetooth at any time. It can be set to play for 2 hours so can play in the background while I'm doing other things if need be. Very useful tool for those funky days.
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j7se
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Re: Do you meditate?

Post by j7se » Fri Nov 17, 2017 7:19 am

Here is an article in Newsweek that I recently read. Short summary: effects of meditation are exaggerated.

https://www.google.com/amp/www.newsweek ... 08%3famp=1

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Re: Do you meditate?

Post by TedSwippet » Fri Nov 17, 2017 12:32 pm

j7se wrote:
Fri Nov 17, 2017 7:19 am
Here is an article in Newsweek that I recently read. Short summary: effects of meditation are exaggerated.
Interesting. Thanks for the link. From the article:
... the well-designed studies that have been done on meditation showed that the practice was only moderately effective, at best, for treating conditions like anxiety, depression or the unpleasantness associated with pain.
Moderately effective sounds pretty useful to me. This article's author clearly does not feel the same way.

kayanco
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Re: Do you meditate?

Post by kayanco » Sat Nov 25, 2017 10:08 am

gasdoc wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 8:36 am
My wife and I recently attended a conference titled, "The Heart and Science of Yoga," done by Leonard Perlmutter and the American Meditation Institute. During the week, we were introduced to the practice and science behind meditation, easy and gentle yoga, healthy and mindful eating, etc. The course was promoted for healthcare practitioners both as a benefit to patients and to prevent and treat practitioner burnout. I had gotten interested when I read a book recently about the habits of the world's most accomplished people, where it was noted that meditation is a common practice. The course covered the actual practices of meditation and yoga, but also included lectures discussing studies demonstrating actual brain changes on MRI as well as decreases in BP and other indicators of health. Leonard Perlmutter is an actual yogi, who must practice various aspects of meditation and yoga for several hours each day. I was thinking to myself, "I would have to be retired to have enough time to do all of that!"

This Bogleheads forum has many accomplished individuals, many of whom are at the end of their careers or retired. I was wondering- do people on this forum take time for meditation/yoga? If so, how long have you been doing it? How much time per day do you practice this? Have you noticed any benefits? Personally, I have been meditating 20 minutes per day, about 4-5 times per week. My wife has been meditating twice per day, for 2o minutes per session, 5 times per week. In our marriage relationships, it seems like we get along better. At work, I seem less bothered by the things that used to bother me. I am in my last few years of practice, I hope, and meditation seems to be making things a little easier and less stressful. I seem to sleep better, finding I am becoming better at "clearing my mind." To be honest, though, I have also cut back on the number of weekends that I work. I would be interested in thoughts from this group.

gasdoc
Most of the meditation that you see out there today is a far cry from what it was actually supposed to be. It's just a stripped down version, commercialized and full of hype. This is particularly true of the meditation apps and corporate programs and retreats.

Even the research papers touting the many benefits are marketing gimmicks.

If you are interested in learning more, I'll refer you to two sources:

1. Robert Sharf:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6Avs5iwACs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-mzNLf3L7U

For the philosophical background and contextual aspect.

2. James Coyne:

http://blogs.plos.org/mindthebrain/author/jcyone

For the scientific aspect.
He has several articles where he takes a critical look at meditation research papers. You can read any 2 or 3 of his articles.

Both sources might be boring and dry at first. But if you stick with it, maybe spend 3-4 hours, you'll have a much better understanding of the mainstream meditation around you these days.

kayanco
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Re: Do you meditate?

Post by kayanco » Sat Nov 25, 2017 10:16 am

TedSwippet wrote:
Fri Nov 17, 2017 12:32 pm
j7se wrote:
Fri Nov 17, 2017 7:19 am
Here is an article in Newsweek that I recently read. Short summary: effects of meditation are exaggerated.
Interesting. Thanks for the link. From the article:
... the well-designed studies that have been done on meditation showed that the practice was only moderately effective, at best, for treating conditions like anxiety, depression or the unpleasantness associated with pain.
Moderately effective sounds pretty useful to me. This article's author clearly does not feel the same way.
If interested, please read James Coyne's detailed analysis of such studies. There's a lot more going on than would appear at first.

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Re: Do you meditate?

Post by Sandtrap » Sat Nov 25, 2017 10:37 am

kayanco wrote:
Sat Nov 25, 2017 10:08 am
. . . . . understanding of the mainstream meditation around you these days.
Thanks for posting the links. Interesting fellow, Coyne.
The "essence", and perhaps inherent effectiveness and validity, of so many things are lost when taken out of their original cultural context. Even in Coyne's writings. IE: there can be extensive research, both valid and pseudoscience, in riding a bicycle. And, there might be passionate collectors and expert builders of bicycles. But, non can convey the organic experience of riding a bicycle. There, action is complete thought. Nothing is taken out of context.
Meditation and mind-body connection esoterics sell a lot of books, courses, retreats, and so forth. To both good and questionable result.
It is unavoidable that Eastern disciplines and practices might be taken out of context with translation and sans cultural background, origin, and immersion. And, with the addition of Western science and analysis, a hamburger can be taken apart so in depth as to forget that it needs to be consumed as a whole and experienced, taste and gratification completely lost.
Paralysis by analysis.
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kayanco
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Re: Do you meditate?

Post by kayanco » Sat Nov 25, 2017 5:37 pm

Sandtrap wrote:
Sat Nov 25, 2017 10:37 am
kayanco wrote:
Sat Nov 25, 2017 10:08 am
. . . . . understanding of the mainstream meditation around you these days.
Thanks for posting the links. Interesting fellow, Coyne.
I feel greatly indebted to him. I was fooled by all the "research" around mediation, almost portraying it as a panacea for stress, cholesterol, immunity, cancer, anything you can think of.

Writing up such research and presenting it basically an art form. If you have sufficient expertise in research design and statistical analysis, and have the right incentive structure, you can show anything to be effective against pretty much anything.

After reading his critiques, I was a little embarrassed over my ignorance and naivete around how research actually works.

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Sandtrap
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Re: Do you meditate?

Post by Sandtrap » Sat Nov 25, 2017 6:41 pm

kayanco wrote:
Sat Nov 25, 2017 5:37 pm
Sandtrap wrote:
Sat Nov 25, 2017 10:37 am
kayanco wrote:
Sat Nov 25, 2017 10:08 am
. . . . . understanding of the mainstream meditation around you these days.
Thanks for posting the links. Interesting fellow, Coyne.
I feel greatly indebted to him. I was fooled by all the "research" around mediation, almost portraying it as a panacea for stress, cholesterol, immunity, cancer, anything you can think of.

Writing up such research and presenting it basically an art form. If you have sufficient expertise in research design and statistical analysis, and have the right incentive structure, you can show anything to be effective against pretty much anything.

After reading his critiques, I was a little embarrassed over my ignorance and naivete around how research actually works.
Yes. But as is said, "all things in moderation. . .including moderation".
One can't paint the entire discipline with the same brush. Nearly anything can be analyzed to the point of invalidation, but that doesn't mean that what was analyzed is invalid in practical application.
Statistical analysis cannot describe or convey the beauty of a rose, or how its lingering fragrance stirs the soul.
j :D
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kayanco
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Re: Do you meditate?

Post by kayanco » Sat Nov 25, 2017 10:31 pm

Sandtrap wrote:
Sat Nov 25, 2017 6:41 pm
kayanco wrote:
Sat Nov 25, 2017 5:37 pm
Sandtrap wrote:
Sat Nov 25, 2017 10:37 am
kayanco wrote:
Sat Nov 25, 2017 10:08 am
. . . . . understanding of the mainstream meditation around you these days.
Thanks for posting the links. Interesting fellow, Coyne.
I feel greatly indebted to him. I was fooled by all the "research" around mediation, almost portraying it as a panacea for stress, cholesterol, immunity, cancer, anything you can think of.

Writing up such research and presenting it basically an art form. If you have sufficient expertise in research design and statistical analysis, and have the right incentive structure, you can show anything to be effective against pretty much anything.

After reading his critiques, I was a little embarrassed over my ignorance and naivete around how research actually works.
Yes. But as is said, "all things in moderation. . .including moderation".
One can't paint the entire discipline with the same brush. Nearly anything can be analyzed to the point of invalidation, but that doesn't mean that what was analyzed is invalid in practical application.
Statistical analysis cannot describe or convey the beauty of a rose, or how its lingering fragrance stirs the soul.
j :D
Agree with you there :)

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Chris001122
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Re: Do you meditate?

Post by Chris001122 » Sat Nov 25, 2017 11:01 pm

Bulldawg wrote:
Wed Nov 15, 2017 10:10 pm
Longtermgrowth wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:51 am
I pray, but do not meditate. I view the two as polar opposites. Since discussion of religion or anything spiritual isn't appropriate on a financial forum, I can't elaborate.
+1
^
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black jack
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Re: Do you meditate?

Post by black jack » Sun Nov 26, 2017 12:15 pm

I started meditating several months ago to help me deal with the emotional trauma of an unexpected midlife divorce. Desperation is a great motivator; I meditate twice a day for 30 minutes at a time.

For those who think they can't do it, there's 2,500 years of experience across many cultures and religions that says yes you can. Many meditation teachers liken meditation to exercise, and I find that analogy useful: like exercise, every little bit helps, more can be more helpful, and while it is difficult at first one rapidly gets better at it -- with no end in sight. And like exercise, meditation seems to be at least somewhat helpful for everything from insomnia to lengthening one's telomeres.

I now sleep better, am a little calmer, a little nicer to people, and probably a little happier than I would otherwise be in my current circumstances. And I'm never without something to do: meditation can be done almost anytime--standing line at Costco, sitting in a car stopped at a red light, waiting for an appointment, etc.

One effect that I've noticed that surprised me: I think the experience of trying to focus on my breath, getting distracted, noticing I've become distracted and returning to focusing on my breath, over and over, without getting down on myself for this (as one writer put it, refocusing on the breath after getting distracted IS the practice), is carrying over to other aspects of my life. When I try to do something and fail, I am less inclined to get frustrated with myself, or to give up; I just start over again. The opposite of this is the experience of, say, starting a diet or exercise program, falling short of one's goal for a day, then giving up entirely.

There are many kinds of meditation. Three popular types are single-point focus (Samatha, focusing on one's breath, or a sound/mantra/word/phrase, or an image, in order to calm the mind), open-field awareness (Vipassana, "insight", examining the thoughts that arise without getting carried away by them), and loving-kindness (Metta, wishing happiness for oneself and for others).

These are not mutually exclusive approaches; I typically alternate among all three during my 30-minute sessions.

[Why are there so many funny names? Because the biggest repository of knowledge/experience about meditation comes out of the Buddhist tradition, whose early writings are in Pali and Sanskrit. Like how all our body parts have funny names, because Western medical anatomy was developed by people who were still writing in Greek and Latin. Don't get hung up on the labels; they're just for convenience.]

We are blessed to have a tremendous amount of information about meditation and mindfulness available to us these days, thanks to the Tibetan diaspora, Americans who went to Asia in the 1960s in search of enlightenment, and the growing interest in/trendiness of mindfulness. Just Googling how to meditate will turn up very many videos and articles.

Some books I've found helpful:
Mindfulness in Plain English - Bhante Henepola Gunaratana
Search Inside Yourself and Joy on Demand - Chade Meng-Tan (formerly an engineer at Google who set up a meditation/mindfulness program at Google U)
The Science of Enlightenment - Shinzen Young (an American who has been meditating, and teaching meditation, for decades)
Why Buddhism is True - Robert Wright (looking at Buddhist psychology, including the practice of meditation, from an evolutionary bioligical perspective)
The Wise heart : a guide to the universal teachings of Buddhist psychology - Jack Kornfield (an American wh went East in the 1960s, became a monk, came back, got a degree in psychology, and has written several books)

10% Happier - Dan Harris (a TV newsreader who describes his own skeptical conversion to meditation, along the lines of "If I could do it, anyone can"; he also includes descriptions of his experience at multi-day meditation retreats)
Buddhism for Busy People - David Michie (a British writer, formerly a public relations exec, who came to meditation in midlife and also takes the "If I could do it anybody can" approach to presenting it)

Peace is Every Breath & The Miracle of Mindfulness - Thich Nhat Hanh, a Vietnamese Zen Buddhist monk who is, as a previous poster noted, every approachable and not doctrinaire; he has many books in print, and reading any of them would likely be helpful)

Buddhism for Breakups (Meshel Laurie) and Storms Can't Hurt the Sky: A Buddhist Path Through Divorce (Gabriel Cohen): examples of the rubber meeting the road: Laurie (female) and Cohen (male) explore how Buddhism helped them deal with their own divorces.

The Mindful Path to Self-Compassion: Freeing Yourself from Destructive Thoughts and Emotions - Christopher K. Germer
Lovingkindness: Learning to Love Through Insight Meditation - Sharon Salzberg
A Guide to Tranquil Wisdom Insight Meditation - Bhante Vimalaraṁs (available as a free pdf download)

For runners: Running With the Mind of Meditation: Lessons for Training the Body and Mind - Sakyong Mipham (a Tibetan ex-pat, son of a prominent monk, who lives in both the East and West, took up running, and in this book uses that context to teach meditation)

Also books by Pema Chodron, Jon Kabat-Zinn, Joseph Goldstein, Daniel Siegel (psychiatrist), the Dalai Lama, etc, etc that I'm just too lazy to list now.

Many of these people also have presentations on YouTube.
We cannot absolutely prove [that they are wrong who say] that we have seen our best days. But so said all who came before us, and with just as much apparent reason. | -T. B. Macaulay (1800-1859)

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praxis
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Re: Do you meditate?

Post by praxis » Sun Nov 26, 2017 1:12 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcrX6tjU4ls&t=283s

This is an interview with Sharon Salzburg on a Tim Ferriss podcast that I listened to yesterday. Whether or not you enjoy Tim's approach to life (He wrote the 4 Hour Workweek and the 4 Hour Body), you might like his interviews. In this interview, he is about to attend a week long silent meditatioin retreat and, being a new meditator, he asks the veteran meditation teacher, Ms. Salzburg, about it. How to meditate, what to expect, how to deal with your "monkey mind". She has some good answers. Please excuse his intro, with some sponsor-references. The interview gets down to business pretty quickly.

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Re: Do you meditate?

Post by Sandtrap » Sun Nov 26, 2017 1:38 pm

praxis wrote:
Sun Nov 26, 2017 1:12 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcrX6tjU4ls&t=283s

This is an interview with Sharon Salzburg on a Tim Ferriss podcast that I listened to yesterday. Whether or not you enjoy Tim's approach to life (He wrote the 4 Hour Workweek and the 4 Hour Body), you might like his interviews. In this interview, he is about to attend a week long silent meditatioin retreat and, being a new meditator, he asks the veteran meditation teacher, Ms. Salzburg, about it. How to meditate, what to expect, how to deal with your "monkey mind". She has some good answers. Please excuse his intro, with some sponsor-references. The interview gets down to business pretty quickly.
Interesting link/podcast. Thanks for posting.
For Ms. Salzburg.. .. perhaps. . . "Catharsis is inevitable in the pursuit of clarity and perhaps. . . closure."
j :D
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sksbog
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Re: Do you meditate?

Post by sksbog » Sat Dec 30, 2017 9:49 am

kayanco wrote:
Sat Nov 25, 2017 5:37 pm
Sandtrap wrote:
Sat Nov 25, 2017 10:37 am
kayanco wrote:
Sat Nov 25, 2017 10:08 am
. . . . . understanding of the mainstream meditation around you these days.
Thanks for posting the links. Interesting fellow, Coyne.
I feel greatly indebted to him. I was fooled by all the "research" around mediation, almost portraying it as a panacea for stress, cholesterol, immunity, cancer, anything you can think of.

Writing up such research and presenting it basically an art form. If you have sufficient expertise in research design and statistical analysis, and have the right incentive structure, you can show anything to be effective against pretty much anything.

After reading his critiques, I was a little embarrassed over my ignorance and naivete around how research actually works.
Are you saying meditation is a hype?

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DWesterb2iz2
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Re: Do you meditate?

Post by DWesterb2iz2 » Sat Dec 30, 2017 11:46 am

Dottie57 wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 11:51 am
Sandtrap wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 11:16 am
Dottie57 wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 10:59 am
Sandtrap wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 9:41 am
Yes.
40 years.
Constant.
Teach and practice.
Static, moving, daily mindfulness, etc.
j :D

What is daily mindfulness.
Taking the "presence" of seated meditation progressively into daily life such that the benefits of meditation become dynamic and ongoing. The generic basic seated meditation might, for example, start with "counting breaths" or whatever various disciplines and offshoots/variations from the origins -- then one takes that same mindfulness into motion, dynamics, and daily life. Basic mediation is like training wheels but the bicycle is not yet moving. Then a progression from that into daily life and then eventually, no training wheels. It is at once a means to an end then something in and of itself with no end.
The goal is able to take the stillness of floating in a calm pond into the chaos of a raging sea (daily life) and within one's own chaos so to speak. Easy to do in a monastery (comparatively speaking :shock: ) but tough to do outside let alone on a daily basis. The benefits are immeasurable.
This is somewhat simplistic but I hope it is helpful.
j :D
Any suggestions for starting out. I could use some calm in my life. A bit more serenity.
I really like the meditation podcasts from the Rubin Museum of art in NYC.
https://m.soundcloud.com/rubinmuseum/se ... on-podcast
Basic guided meditation led by experienced, gentle people. They are free on iTunes and elsewhere. They are rebroadcasts of the meditations they have at the museum each week. Sharon Salzburg, mentioned above, leads many of them.

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Re: Do you meditate?

Post by bertilak » Sat Dec 30, 2017 5:57 pm

jhfenton wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 10:17 am
I don't meditate per se, but I feel like I get a similar mental and physical benefit from distance running. The headspace during a relaxed run (not a workout) is very different from that during almost daily activity.
As an ex-runner I understand completely. I had different paces: for training and for day-to-day running. My favorite, the one that evoked the "runner's high," was what I called my "forever pace". This was not a slow pace not was it a training hard-push pace. I was a pace that I felt I could maintain "forever." Of course I couldn't but it felt that way and indeed I could keep it up for a long time. It was a pace where I was using, but not straining, my heart-lung machine at its optimal efficiency. I could just sense when everything was ticking over nicely.
May neither drought nor rain nor blizzard disturb the joy juice in your gizzard. -- Squire Omar Barker (aka S.O.B.), the Cowboy Poet

InMyDreams
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Re: Do you meditate?

Post by InMyDreams » Sun Dec 31, 2017 12:04 am

Benson's Relaxation Response is a good read.
https://www.amazon.com/Relaxation-Respo ... n+response

Emmett Miller has good guided meditation recordings, and a great sleep recording
https://www.drmiller.com/

But, I haven't been practicing for quite a while.

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Re: Do you meditate?

Post by GibsonL6s » Sun Dec 31, 2017 12:41 am

In the 70s when I was about 12 my dad had high blood pressure so he took the entire family to learn transcendental meditation known as TM. It allows you to go into a deep trancelike state. I have not done it in many years but it can be quite relaxing. Ray Dalio manager is the worlds largest hedge fund swears by meditation I have also take. A few hot yoga classes and enjoyed them

kayanco
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Re: Do you meditate?

Post by kayanco » Tue Jan 02, 2018 4:44 am

sksbog wrote:
Sat Dec 30, 2017 9:49 am
kayanco wrote:
Sat Nov 25, 2017 5:37 pm
Sandtrap wrote:
Sat Nov 25, 2017 10:37 am
kayanco wrote:
Sat Nov 25, 2017 10:08 am
. . . . . understanding of the mainstream meditation around you these days.
Thanks for posting the links. Interesting fellow, Coyne.
I feel greatly indebted to him. I was fooled by all the "research" around mediation, almost portraying it as a panacea for stress, cholesterol, immunity, cancer, anything you can think of.

Writing up such research and presenting it basically an art form. If you have sufficient expertise in research design and statistical analysis, and have the right incentive structure, you can show anything to be effective against pretty much anything.

After reading his critiques, I was a little embarrassed over my ignorance and naivete around how research actually works.
Are you saying meditation is a hype?
Yes, that's the view I came to when I looked/read closely --- in regards to "meditation" as it's presented to a Western audience, and all the purported health claim using neuroscience research.

If you are interested and have the time, I would recommend researching this yourself. James Coyne's articles can be a starting point.

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pezblanco
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Re: Do you meditate?

Post by pezblanco » Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:36 am

kayanco wrote:
Tue Jan 02, 2018 4:44 am
sksbog wrote:
Sat Dec 30, 2017 9:49 am

Are you saying meditation is a hype?
Yes, that's the view I came to when I looked/read closely --- in regards to "meditation" as it's presented to a Western audience, and all the purported health claim using neuroscience research.

If you are interested and have the time, I would recommend researching this yourself. James Coyne's articles can be a starting point.
One of the more prominent academic researchers in meditation is Richie Davidson of the University of Wisconsin-Madison. He has with Harvard psychologist Daniel Goleman written a book summarizing what is know about the mind-body effects of meditation: Altered Traits. I listened to a podcast with the two authors and Sam Harris (himself a neuroscientist). Davidson makes the point that most of the claims about the disease curing aspects of meditation are not borne out by hard evidence. It is then pointed out that the thrust of meditation in the Eastern societies from which it came is not to do some sort of curative disease fighting process. That is something that the west has tried to overlay on top of buddhist philosophy.

To go from observations like these to a statement that "Meditation is hype," is a bridge too far. You have some people (very common in the medical fields) doing some shoddy research and making wild claims. Some others debunk the shoddiness and then a casual observer says ... well since those claims have been debunked (which reflects more on the shoddy researchers) then the whole field of study must be junk science.

In the book and in the podcast, they go into quite a bit of detail about the hard scientific data that corroborates how the brain (including it's chemistry) seems to be fundamentally changed by meditative practice. I assure you that Davidson and Goleman are two very capable scientists and are capable of producing a scientific result competently without "hype".

If you are interested and have the time, I would recommend researching this yourself. Davidson's articles and books can be a starting point.

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Re: Do you meditate?

Post by reggiesimpson » Tue Jan 02, 2018 5:51 pm

I zone out and talk to myself regularly. But at 70yo I think that's called normal not meditating.

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black jack
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Re: Do you meditate?

Post by black jack » Tue Jan 02, 2018 8:33 pm

letsgobobby wrote:
Thu Nov 16, 2017 1:11 am
I am way too busy and stressed out to meditate.
From a book on Zen Buddhism:
Q: How much should I meditate?
A: Thirty minutes a day is good, unless you're too busy to do that much, in which case an hour a day.
We cannot absolutely prove [that they are wrong who say] that we have seen our best days. But so said all who came before us, and with just as much apparent reason. | -T. B. Macaulay (1800-1859)

kayanco
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Re: Do you meditate?

Post by kayanco » Wed Jan 03, 2018 1:02 am

pezblanco wrote:
Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:36 am
kayanco wrote:
Tue Jan 02, 2018 4:44 am
sksbog wrote:
Sat Dec 30, 2017 9:49 am

Are you saying meditation is a hype?
Yes, that's the view I came to when I looked/read closely --- in regards to "meditation" as it's presented to a Western audience, and all the purported health claim using neuroscience research.

If you are interested and have the time, I would recommend researching this yourself. James Coyne's articles can be a starting point.
One of the more prominent academic researchers in meditation is Richie Davidson of the University of Wisconsin-Madison. He has with Harvard psychologist Daniel Goleman written a book summarizing what is know about the mind-body effects of meditation: Altered Traits. I listened to a podcast with the two authors and Sam Harris (himself a neuroscientist). Davidson makes the point that most of the claims about the disease curing aspects of meditation are not borne out by hard evidence. It is then pointed out that the thrust of meditation in the Eastern societies from which it came is not to do some sort of curative disease fighting process. That is something that the west has tried to overlay on top of buddhist philosophy.

To go from observations like these to a statement that "Meditation is hype," is a bridge too far. You have some people (very common in the medical fields) doing some shoddy research and making wild claims. Some others debunk the shoddiness and then a casual observer says ... well since those claims have been debunked (which reflects more on the shoddy researchers) then the whole field of study must be junk science.

In the book and in the podcast, they go into quite a bit of detail about the hard scientific data that corroborates how the brain (including it's chemistry) seems to be fundamentally changed by meditative practice. I assure you that Davidson and Goleman are two very capable scientists and are capable of producing a scientific result competently without "hype".

If you are interested and have the time, I would recommend researching this yourself. Davidson's articles and books can be a starting point.
I'm familiar with and have looked into the works of both Richie Davidson and Daniel Goleman (including his work on Emotional Intelligence).

They talk a lot about monks who meditate and their "happiness' and their brain changes. But can you quote me any reference in their works about what else these monks practice along with meditation?
That they refrain from harming life.
Refrain from sexual misconduct.
Refrain from intoxicants.
Etc, etc.

And that the meditation they do is just one part of their practice.

Hence my view that the "meditation" sold here is nothing but a reductionist commodification. I see it no different than:
Touting the benefits of a single vitamin in an apple. With all this research on the vitamin and then selling it in pills. Without ever mentioning the 1000 other things in apple that could be causing the benefits.

And laypeople like myself get enamoured by the pretext of credibility/authority created by the scientism of these prominent "researchers", their "PhDs", etc:
Let me just take this pill and reap all these benefits.
Let me just use this meditation app or go on this retreat ...

But clearly we both have come to different conclusions on this, I can live with that :)

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gasdoc
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Re: Do you meditate?

Post by gasdoc » Wed Jan 03, 2018 7:32 am

How about the studies where they take an experimental group and teach them meditation and have them meditate every day for a period of time, and they take a control group and have them simply sit quietly every day for the same period of time. Then, after a number of weeks, they check functional MRI's of all of the study participants, and the experimental (meditation) group has increases in the size of the cerebral cortex and decreases in the size of the parts of the brain that deal with stress? I don't think you can summarily dismiss ALL meditation research because there are a few flawed studies. If that were the case, much of medicine would be dismissed.

gasdoc

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pezblanco
Posts: 614
Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2013 8:02 pm

Re: Do you meditate?

Post by pezblanco » Wed Jan 03, 2018 9:56 am

kayanco wrote:
Wed Jan 03, 2018 1:02 am
pezblanco wrote:
Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:36 am
kayanco wrote:
Tue Jan 02, 2018 4:44 am
sksbog wrote:
Sat Dec 30, 2017 9:49 am

Are you saying meditation is a hype?
Yes, that's the view I came to when I looked/read closely --- in regards to "meditation" as it's presented to a Western audience, and all the purported health claim using neuroscience research.

If you are interested and have the time, I would recommend researching this yourself. James Coyne's articles can be a starting point.
One of the more prominent academic researchers in meditation is Richie Davidson of the University of Wisconsin-Madison. He has with Harvard psychologist Daniel Goleman written a book summarizing what is know about the mind-body effects of meditation: Altered Traits. I listened to a podcast with the two authors and Sam Harris (himself a neuroscientist). Davidson makes the point that most of the claims about the disease curing aspects of meditation are not borne out by hard evidence. It is then pointed out that the thrust of meditation in the Eastern societies from which it came is not to do some sort of curative disease fighting process. That is something that the west has tried to overlay on top of buddhist philosophy.

To go from observations like these to a statement that "Meditation is hype," is a bridge too far. You have some people (very common in the medical fields) doing some shoddy research and making wild claims. Some others debunk the shoddiness and then a casual observer says ... well since those claims have been debunked (which reflects more on the shoddy researchers) then the whole field of study must be junk science.

In the book and in the podcast, they go into quite a bit of detail about the hard scientific data that corroborates how the brain (including it's chemistry) seems to be fundamentally changed by meditative practice. I assure you that Davidson and Goleman are two very capable scientists and are capable of producing a scientific result competently without "hype".

If you are interested and have the time, I would recommend researching this yourself. Davidson's articles and books can be a starting point.
I'm familiar with and have looked into the works of both Richie Davidson and Daniel Goleman (including his work on Emotional Intelligence).

They talk a lot about monks who meditate and their "happiness' and their brain changes. But can you quote me any reference in their works about what else these monks practice along with meditation?
That they refrain from harming life.
Refrain from sexual misconduct.
Refrain from intoxicants.
Etc, etc.

And that the meditation they do is just one part of their practice.

Hence my view that the "meditation" sold here is nothing but a reductionist commodification. I see it no different than:
Touting the benefits of a single vitamin in an apple. With all this research on the vitamin and then selling it in pills. Without ever mentioning the 1000 other things in apple that could be causing the benefits.

And laypeople like myself get enamoured by the pretext of credibility/authority created by the scientism of these prominent "researchers", their "PhDs", etc:
Let me just take this pill and reap all these benefits.
Let me just use this meditation app or go on this retreat ...

But clearly we both have come to different conclusions on this, I can live with that :)
Ah but you see, that is exactly the difference. I haven't reached any final conclusions on this. You for some reason have ....

kayanco
Posts: 761
Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2014 12:20 am

Re: Do you meditate?

Post by kayanco » Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:15 am

pezblanco wrote:
Wed Jan 03, 2018 9:56 am
kayanco wrote:
Wed Jan 03, 2018 1:02 am
pezblanco wrote:
Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:36 am
kayanco wrote:
Tue Jan 02, 2018 4:44 am
sksbog wrote:
Sat Dec 30, 2017 9:49 am

Are you saying meditation is a hype?
Yes, that's the view I came to when I looked/read closely --- in regards to "meditation" as it's presented to a Western audience, and all the purported health claim using neuroscience research.

If you are interested and have the time, I would recommend researching this yourself. James Coyne's articles can be a starting point.
One of the more prominent academic researchers in meditation is Richie Davidson of the University of Wisconsin-Madison. He has with Harvard psychologist Daniel Goleman written a book summarizing what is know about the mind-body effects of meditation: Altered Traits. I listened to a podcast with the two authors and Sam Harris (himself a neuroscientist). Davidson makes the point that most of the claims about the disease curing aspects of meditation are not borne out by hard evidence. It is then pointed out that the thrust of meditation in the Eastern societies from which it came is not to do some sort of curative disease fighting process. That is something that the west has tried to overlay on top of buddhist philosophy.

To go from observations like these to a statement that "Meditation is hype," is a bridge too far. You have some people (very common in the medical fields) doing some shoddy research and making wild claims. Some others debunk the shoddiness and then a casual observer says ... well since those claims have been debunked (which reflects more on the shoddy researchers) then the whole field of study must be junk science.

In the book and in the podcast, they go into quite a bit of detail about the hard scientific data that corroborates how the brain (including it's chemistry) seems to be fundamentally changed by meditative practice. I assure you that Davidson and Goleman are two very capable scientists and are capable of producing a scientific result competently without "hype".

If you are interested and have the time, I would recommend researching this yourself. Davidson's articles and books can be a starting point.
I'm familiar with and have looked into the works of both Richie Davidson and Daniel Goleman (including his work on Emotional Intelligence).

They talk a lot about monks who meditate and their "happiness' and their brain changes. But can you quote me any reference in their works about what else these monks practice along with meditation?
That they refrain from harming life.
Refrain from sexual misconduct.
Refrain from intoxicants.
Etc, etc.

And that the meditation they do is just one part of their practice.

Hence my view that the "meditation" sold here is nothing but a reductionist commodification. I see it no different than:
Touting the benefits of a single vitamin in an apple. With all this research on the vitamin and then selling it in pills. Without ever mentioning the 1000 other things in apple that could be causing the benefits.

And laypeople like myself get enamoured by the pretext of credibility/authority created by the scientism of these prominent "researchers", their "PhDs", etc:
Let me just take this pill and reap all these benefits.
Let me just use this meditation app or go on this retreat ...

But clearly we both have come to different conclusions on this, I can live with that :)
I haven't reached any final conclusions on this.
I can respect that.

tm3
Posts: 50
Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2014 7:16 pm

Re: Do you meditate?

Post by tm3 » Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:53 pm

Research that I have done suggests that there is substantial benefit to meditation. After trying off and on for years to stick with a regular routine (but failing), I have for the last 9 months or so been practicing mindfulness meditation regularly, and I believe it to be beneficial -- certainly worth the investment of time. My wife has been at it for 3-4 years and is also a believer.

I have also done long distance running and cycling, as well as swimming and other sports. While I believe that there is a positive mental effect from those activities, I don't believe it is the same as meditation and I find meditation superior.

socaldude
Posts: 34
Joined: Fri May 05, 2017 9:27 am

Re: Do you meditate?

Post by socaldude » Mon Oct 29, 2018 6:25 pm

daveydoo wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 5:37 pm
socaldude wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 10:41 am
"There is more to Life than increasing it's speed." GANDHI ...............(p.s. retired 50-STKS-40-BNDS-10-CSH)
For some reason, I always imagined him with less equity exposure.
He is in it for the long term.

Mingus
Posts: 696
Joined: Fri Apr 19, 2013 2:25 pm

Re: Do you meditate?

Post by Mingus » Mon Oct 29, 2018 10:29 pm

ccccccccccccccc

GibsonL6s
Posts: 296
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2017 12:17 pm

Re: Do you meditate?

Post by GibsonL6s » Mon Oct 29, 2018 10:37 pm

I recently started to do Zhan Zhuang, which is a form of standing meditation. It is described in the web and in a book called the Way of Energy. I have done it a month or so and it is great for focus.

As a kid in the 70s my entire family learned TM and it is also great although I have not done it in many years.

SlowlySaving
Posts: 37
Joined: Wed Aug 02, 2017 7:49 pm

Re: Do you meditate?

Post by SlowlySaving » Tue Oct 30, 2018 11:38 am

Yes, daily.

Check out the free app called Insight Timer! It is great for guided meditation and all kinds of music, bells, courses etc. I take walks at lunch and listen to Insight Timer when doing so. Great for walking meditation.

Good luck!

bondsr4me
Posts: 1242
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 7:08 am

Re: Do you meditate?

Post by bondsr4me » Tue Oct 30, 2018 12:02 pm

I have been doing yoga 3 times a week for about 1 1/2 years.

It has really helped me with back issues.

I haven’t done the meditation yet, but may try in the future.

It has helped me to “calm down” a bit too.

Don

shell921
Posts: 344
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2018 5:13 pm

Re: Do you meditate?

Post by shell921 » Tue Oct 30, 2018 1:24 pm

Yes I meditate and have since March of 2016. I can not recommend it highly enough.
People who meditate are better able to cope with stress. There is no downside to it.
If you can't do it for 10 min - try it for one or two min and build up.
Through meditation I have learned how not to be "over shadowded" by anything.
The point is, learning to let thoughts pass in and out of your mind. This is difficult.
The brain is going to get distracted-that is guaranteed. You can't stop your
brain from thinking. But you CAN train it not to follow every random thought
that comes into your head. Meditation makes you aware of what the brain is thinking
and this gives you more control
over which thoughts you dwell on and which you choose to release. Meditation also
gives your body a deep profound REST! Body and mind are interconnected so quieting the mind also quiets the body.
You will feel better physically if you meditate regularly and have more energy.
It takes some time to get good at it but, each time you do it, you strengthen the practice.
Meditation will benefit your conversation skills by making you a better listener. Once the
chatter in your mind quiets down, you can really focus on what someone else is saying
without becoming overly distracted by your own thoughts.

2 great books to read are :

"10% Happier"

and

"Meditation for Fidgety Skeptics: A 10% Happier How-to Book"
both books byDan Harris

FunnelCakeBob
Posts: 83
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2018 5:44 pm

Re: Do you meditate?

Post by FunnelCakeBob » Tue Oct 30, 2018 11:54 pm

bondsr4me wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 12:02 pm
I have been doing yoga 3 times a week for about 1 1/2 years.

It has really helped me with back issues.

I haven’t done the meditation yet, but may try in the future.

It has helped me to “calm down” a bit too.

Don
I've been practicing yoga for more than 10 years and don't see it as a physical activity separate from its mind practice. A good instructor once said it's all about breathing especially when you can't twist, bend, or move yourself into certain positions like other practitioners. Keep breathing and it allows you to observe and respect your body's limitations. Breathing holds up the tree while the various asanas or poses are mere ornaments on that tree. I try to incorporate this rhythmic breathing in swimming and it keep my head clear while doing an aerobically strenuous exercise.

I believe you're already engaging in some meditation without realizing it.

Almost there
Posts: 908
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2008 7:06 pm
Location: Arizona USA

Re: Do you meditate?

Post by Almost there » Wed Oct 31, 2018 12:34 am

Yoga every day for the past 15 years.
Meditation for 20 minutes, as needed.
Last edited by Almost there on Wed Oct 31, 2018 5:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

SGM
Posts: 3050
Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2011 4:46 am

Re: Do you meditate?

Post by SGM » Wed Oct 31, 2018 3:47 am

I learned relaxation techniques 40 years ago when my then employer brought in a psychology professor for a several hour session on type A behavior and the need for relaxation. The relaxation technique was very effective for the attendees.

The technique involved tensing and relaxing individual muscle areas from head to toe and concentrating only on one muscle area at a time. Once the body felt completely relaxed then one or two long deep breaths and long exhalations were performed. If you concentrated and compared the tensing and relaxing as recommended it was impossible to think about anything else. The whole tecnique could be done in 15 minutes and an abbreviated version might also be helpful.

NibbanaBanana
Posts: 247
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2017 10:34 pm

Re: Do you meditate?

Post by NibbanaBanana » Thu Nov 01, 2018 9:37 pm

Yes.

Been meditating for 8 years now. 30-60 minutes daily anapanasati (total awareness of breathing). This, along with Theravada Buddhist teachings, has totally changed the way I view the world.
https://www.wisdompubs.org/book/mindful ... in-english
https://www.wisdompubs.org/book/eight-m ... -happiness

Been doing daily yoga practice for 4 years. Solved my back problems. I thought I was strong, until I discovered yoga.
https://www.alomoves.com/videos/how-to-tiger-bend

Been trail running almost every day for 45 years. Worn out many, many running shoes, and a number of great trail dogs.

Vegan for 18 years, WFPB for 3 years.

That's my prescription for happiness.

Beensabu
Posts: 253
Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2016 3:22 pm

Re: Do you meditate?

Post by Beensabu » Thu Nov 01, 2018 10:40 pm

Singing/chanting/tonal/humming meditation. Tied to breath without focusing on breath. Shows you the same thing. Everyone has a way to find it.
"The only thing that makes life possible is permanent, intolerable uncertainty; not knowing what comes next."

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