Home network question

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Dilbydog
Posts: 98
Joined: Mon May 23, 2016 10:17 pm

Home network question

Post by Dilbydog »

We’re going to be moving into a new residence that is 1600 sq ft bigger than our current home, and has an out building / shop about 40-50’ from the primary structure. I’m currently utilizing a dual band router and a WiFi extender to cover my current residence but know this isn’t the best solution. I want to add one or two WAP’s (looking at Ubiquiti) to create a mesh network to cover the property. Has anyone used WAP’s for their home WiFi solution? I’ve read, but have not confirmed, that I will have to disable the wireless on my current router to utilize the Ubiquiti.

I know there ar major tech players who have mesh network solutions, but given the area in question, and that I’m willing to run CAT 6a from a poe switch, I feel dedicated AP’s are my better solution? Am I wrong?

Thanks
jebmke
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Location: Delmarva Peninsula

Re: Home network question

Post by jebmke »

If the out building has power connected back to a panel in your house, you might be able to use Powerline networking to jump from the house to the out building. I was able to do this to a shed in my back yard. I only did one quick test - need to see if I can set it up differently to increase the speed. If you have more than one panel (which is what I have) you want to make sure that the Powerline adaptors are on the same panel. Even better is having them on the same circuit but in my house, I have had good results (100mbs+) using powerline on different circuits that shared the same panel.
When you discover that you are riding a dead horse, the best strategy is to dismount.
Helo80
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Re: Home network question

Post by Helo80 »

Ideally, you would run a CAT 5e/6/6a whatever from your home to the shop.

Home: WiFi Router with built-in switch. Likely, you'll set this as your DHCP server for adding new wireless clients to your home subnet.

Shop: WiFi Router setup as a Wireless Access Point; disable DHCP. Basically, when you move phones/tablets/laptops/etc from your home to your shop, they should preferentially switch to your shop's Wireless Access Point since the signal will be stronger.

A lot of standard router firmware should be able to accommodate being turned into a Wireless Access Point. A lot of the over the counter solutions at Best Buy, Staples, etc. try to make what I described above easier for non-tech savvy ppl.
stan1
Posts: 9185
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 4:35 pm

Re: Home network question

Post by stan1 »

All other things equal:
Wired > wireless

I'm happy with my 2 Eeros which gets me the coverage I need in my 1996 pre-internet home plus the patio and attached garage. If I was building a new home I'd run 500 feet of cable including multiple WAPs, entertainment centers, and offices. One thing I like about the eero is that it auto-patches which is important these days with cyber vulnerabilities targeting routers.
Topic Author
Dilbydog
Posts: 98
Joined: Mon May 23, 2016 10:17 pm

Re: Home network question

Post by Dilbydog »

I’ve used powerline blocks in the past, but haven’t been thrilled with the performance even when on the same circuit. PL would be my last option, as I know there’s not a common circuit between the shop and house. I’m fairly certain I could ensure circuits on a common bus.
Running a hard line between the residence and shop would be difficult, as the area between the buildings is paved. There’s currently no data in the shop, so an open raceway is more than likely out of the question. And pulling shielded data though a power conduit seems like too much work, if I can get WiFi or PL to work.
Topic Author
Dilbydog
Posts: 98
Joined: Mon May 23, 2016 10:17 pm

Re: Home network question

Post by Dilbydog »

stan1 wrote: Sun Nov 05, 2017 2:58 pm All other things equal:
Wired > wireless

I'm happy with my 2 Eeros which gets me the coverage I need in my 1996 pre-internet home plus the patio and attached garage. If I was building a new home I'd run 500 feet of cable including multiple WAPs, entertainment centers, and offices. One thing I like about the eero is that it auto-patches which is important these days with cyber vulnerabilities targeting routers.
I plan on hardwiring our tv’s and other devices that will be fixed and can accept CAT5,6, etc
mpsz
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Joined: Sat Jan 09, 2016 7:11 pm

Re: Home network question

Post by mpsz »

Ubiquiti offers two different lines of WiFi products -- Unifi and Amplifi. Which are you considering?

I use Ubiquiti Unifi APs in my home. They are fantastic if you have the technical know-how and are willing to spend time to set up the system properly and keep it up to date. You do need to occasionally SSH into an AP to fix a problem (like the AP not adopting successfully, or a botched update -- very rare but it has happened to me). Updating software is a 2-step process -- you need to update the controller and then the controller pushes new software to the APs.

Keep in mind you don't really need "mesh" if all APs are connected to a wired network. If you set up two APs on the same SSID, with the same security settings, and separate channels, your devices will "roam" freely between the two APs. For 99% of cases, this is what you want. Mesh is more useful like your current scenario, where one of your APs (the extender) is not connected to the wired network.
jebmke
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Location: Delmarva Peninsula

Re: Home network question

Post by jebmke »

mpsz wrote: Sun Nov 05, 2017 3:24 pm Keep in mind you don't really need "mesh" if all APs are connected to a wired network. If you set up two APs on the same SSID, with the same security settings, and separate channels, your devices will "roam" freely between the two APs. For 99% of cases, this is what you want. Mesh is more useful like your current scenario, where one of your APs (the extender) is not connected to the wired network.
If the main router supports VLANs will the APs also support them?
When you discover that you are riding a dead horse, the best strategy is to dismount.
mpsz
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Re: Home network question

Post by mpsz »

jebmke wrote: Sun Nov 05, 2017 3:26 pm If the main router supports VLANs will the APs also support them?
Is this specifically about Unifi? If so, yes, they support VLANs. You can create up to 8 SSIDs and each SSID can be assigned to a VLAN.
jebmke
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Re: Home network question

Post by jebmke »

mpsz wrote: Sun Nov 05, 2017 3:32 pm
jebmke wrote: Sun Nov 05, 2017 3:26 pm If the main router supports VLANs will the APs also support them?
Is this specifically about Unifi? If so, yes, they support VLANs. You can create up to 8 SSIDs and each SSID can be assigned to a VLAN.
Yes, I was specifically referencing those APs. If they were hooked to a router from another manufacturer that supported VLANs (either natively or by installing an open source firmware).
When you discover that you are riding a dead horse, the best strategy is to dismount.
Topic Author
Dilbydog
Posts: 98
Joined: Mon May 23, 2016 10:17 pm

Re: Home network question

Post by Dilbydog »

mpsz wrote: Sun Nov 05, 2017 3:24 pm Ubiquiti offers two different lines of WiFi products -- Unifi and Amplifi. Which are you considering?

I use Ubiquiti Unifi APs in my home. They are fantastic if you have the technical know-how and are willing to spend time to set up the system properly and keep it up to date. You do need to occasionally SSH into an AP to fix a problem (like the AP not adopting successfully, or a botched update -- very rare but it has happened to me). Updating software is a 2-step process -- you need to update the controller and then the controller pushes new software to the APs.

Keep in mind you don't really need "mesh" if all APs are connected to a wired network. If you set up two APs on the same SSID, with the same security settings, and separate channels, your devices will "roam" freely between the two APs. For 99% of cases, this is what you want. Mesh is more useful like your current scenario, where one of your APs (the extender) is not connected to the wired network.
I’m sorry, looking at the Unifi’s.

I have some technical know how, and feel confident I can keep the system up to date. I would prefer all WiFi components to be hardwired to a switch, and not rely on signal extenders or non CAT medium, ie Powerline.
jebmke
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Location: Delmarva Peninsula

Re: Home network question

Post by jebmke »

Dilbydog wrote: Sun Nov 05, 2017 4:24 pm I would prefer all WiFi components to be hardwired to a switch, and not rely on signal extenders or non CAT medium, ie Powerline.
Then you really have no alternative other than to run an Ethernet cable to the remote building.
When you discover that you are riding a dead horse, the best strategy is to dismount.
noco-hawkeye
Posts: 439
Joined: Sat Aug 16, 2014 8:20 am

Re: Home network question

Post by noco-hawkeye »

If you are going to run a cable, I might look at fiber optic vs ethernet. There are a number of benefits to fiber vs ethernet - especially if you are going to share electric conduit.
killjoy2012
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Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 5:30 pm

Re: Home network question

Post by killjoy2012 »

Or, since it sounds like they ran a single conduit for the power feeder but no low voltage conduit, consider, if there's room, pulling fiber in the power conduit so as to avoid EM interference.

In your situation, I would probably favor pulling some form of wired uplink (CAT 6, fiber) between the 2 buildings. Or if that's not going to happen, look at Powerline. Mesh or wireless bridge would be my last resort.
NYCguy
Posts: 350
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2016 12:42 pm

Re: Home network question

Post by NYCguy »

Dilbydog wrote: Sun Nov 05, 2017 4:24 pm
mpsz wrote: Sun Nov 05, 2017 3:24 pm Ubiquiti offers two different lines of WiFi products -- Unifi and Amplifi. Which are you considering?

I use Ubiquiti Unifi APs in my home. They are fantastic if you have the technical know-how and are willing to spend time to set up the system properly and keep it up to date. You do need to occasionally SSH into an AP to fix a problem (like the AP not adopting successfully, or a botched update -- very rare but it has happened to me). Updating software is a 2-step process -- you need to update the controller and then the controller pushes new software to the APs.

Keep in mind you don't really need "mesh" if all APs are connected to a wired network. If you set up two APs on the same SSID, with the same security settings, and separate channels, your devices will "roam" freely between the two APs. For 99% of cases, this is what you want. Mesh is more useful like your current scenario, where one of your APs (the extender) is not connected to the wired network.
+1. I set up a UniFi network with 5 switches and six APs earlier this year. I have been very impressed with this kit. Consider including a cloud key with your set up. It provides for excellent remote management including from iOS devices.

I’m sorry, looking at the Unifi’s.

I have some technical know how, and feel confident I can keep the system up to date. I would prefer all WiFi components to be hardwired to a switch, and not rely on signal extenders or non CAT medium, ie Powerline.
If your out-go is greater than your income, your upkeep will be your DOWNFALL.
toast0
Posts: 154
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2014 1:41 am
Location: Puget Sound

Re: Home network question

Post by toast0 »

It's possible that the outbuilding was already wired for a phone? If that was, by chance, run with cat5, and you don't need a phone out there, you can reterminate it, and run ethernet up to GigE no problem. If it's only Cat3, at 50 feet, 100M is likely to work, even though its not in spec, and its worth testing GigE too.
Topic Author
Dilbydog
Posts: 98
Joined: Mon May 23, 2016 10:17 pm

Re: Home network question

Post by Dilbydog »

Thanks for the input everyone. Once I’m settled in, I’ll look for a data conduit or pull something shielded through the power conduit, assuming that power wasn’t direct buried.
JBTX
Posts: 7120
Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2017 12:46 pm

Re: Home network question

Post by JBTX »

If you have Orbi WiFi mesh with 3 stations is is rated at 7500 sq feet coverage. Normally it would cost about $500 but I see Costco is running on online special on them nov 23-27 for about $360.
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