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Repair (new engine) 2005 Mazda 3?

Posted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 5:11 pm
by dm200
I have a 2005 Mazda 3 that has a bad engine (needs to be replaced). NADA value (clean retail) is $4400 plus 1175 (low mileage).

If our local car repair place (very honest, ethical) can find an engine (they now guess maybe $2,500) should I get the engine replaced and keep the car? It only has about 70,000 original miles (I am only owner).

I lean yes, if they can find a reasonably priced engine (say, $2,500) repair and keep it. The vehicle satisfies my needs and will not run up a lot of miles annually.

Re: Repair (new engine) 2005 Mazda 3?

Posted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 5:17 pm
by rebellovw
Junk it - bad engine after 70K miles?

Any idea on what 'bad' is? Head? Pistons? crank? block?

How did it go bad?

70K is pretty low these days.

Not to be funny - but a 'bad engine' is not what you want to hear when you go to the mech. Like going to the doctor and he/she saying - you got a bad body.

Re: Repair (new engine) 2005 Mazda 3?

Posted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 5:20 pm
by dm200
rebellovw wrote:
Fri Oct 27, 2017 5:17 pm
Junk it - bad engine after 70K miles?
Any idea on what 'bad' is? Head? Pistons? crank? block?
How did it go bad?
70K is pretty low these days.
Probably my lack of quickly following up with issues and/or some damage years ago when I hit a car in front of me. Burns a lot of oil and problems with block. I have zero mechanical knowledge but the repair place treats us very well over many years and if it were repairable, I am certain they would have an answer.

Re: Repair (new engine) 2005 Mazda 3?

Posted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 5:22 pm
by Sandtrap
70,000 is extremely low for needing engine replacement.
The cost of engine replacement, but then over time there will be other repairs.
How about a new/or lightly used Honda Civic, Toyota Corolla./Camry?

Re: Repair (new engine) 2005 Mazda 3?

Posted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 5:28 pm
by rebellovw
If you really like the car and understand that the reason was legit and avoidable - then perhaps. I drove the heck out of a street race VW and had to replace the motor.

I think to more forward you first have to find a good replacement long block (complete motor) which is new/quality rebuilt. Find that - then post the info here for people to judge. In my case my new motor was about 1500 and was beautiful - new everything from a quality place in Gilroy CA.

Then get the price for the mech to install it.

And see if it is worthwhile. Sounds to be about 5K from what you describe. Also figure - is it a stick? Replace the clutch, bearing etc at the same time (more $$ but necessary)

Best of luck.

Re: Repair (new engine) 2005 Mazda 3?

Posted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 5:31 pm
by jabberwockOG
Engines in Mazda 3 are extremely reliable and run with no issues to 150k miles easy. I am assuming they are quoting you $2500 for a rebulit engine if not they are charging way too much. I would not pay $2500 for a rebuilt engine but instead get it repaired with a junkyard engine that had under 100k miles on it. Junkyard motors can be sourced for apprx $600-800, labor to install and set up should be $700-1000 max. So for $1300-1800 you should be able to get the car running again and use it for a few more years.



Example -
https://www.ebay.com/itm/ENGINE-MOTOR-M ... 0677.m4598

https://www.ebay.com/itm/04-05-2004-200 ... Lv&vxp=mtr

Re: Repair (new engine) 2005 Mazda 3?

Posted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 5:33 pm
by dm200
rebellovw wrote:
Fri Oct 27, 2017 5:28 pm
If you really like the car and understand that the reason was legit and avoidable - then perhaps. I drove the heck out of a street race VW and had to replace the motor.
I think to more forward you first have to find a good replacement long block (complete motor) which is new/quality rebuilt. Find that - then post the info here for people to judge. In my case my new motor was about 1500 and was beautiful - new everything from a quality place in Gilroy CA.
Then get the price for the mech to install it.
And see if it is worthwhile. Sounds to be about 5K from what you describe. Also figure - is it a stick? Replace the clutch, bearing etc at the same time (more $$ but necessary)
Best of luck.
An internet search shows about $2,000 - $3,000 for the used/rebuild engine. Maybe repair place can find one. Yes, it is a manual transmission.

Re: Repair (new engine) 2005 Mazda 3?

Posted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 5:34 pm
by dm200
jabberwockOG wrote:
Fri Oct 27, 2017 5:31 pm
Engines in Mazda 3 are extremely reliable and run with no issues to 150k miles easy. I am assuming they are quoting you $2500 for a rebulit engine if not they are charging way too much. I would not pay $2500 for a rebuilt engine but instead get it repaired with a junkyard engine that had under 100k miles on it. Junkyard motors can be sourced for apprx $600-800, labor to install and set up should be $700-1000 max. So for $1300-1800 you should be able to get the car running again and use it for a few more years.
Example -
https://www.ebay.com/itm/ENGINE-MOTOR-M ... 0677.m4598
OK - not sure what they have in mind. My wife spoke with the repair shop manager.

Re: Repair (new engine) 2005 Mazda 3?

Posted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 5:36 pm
by keaton
How did they diagnose it?

I would get a compression test and leak down test. That will give you some idea of what is really going on. Supper easy to do by any shop.

How much does it burn? 1qt every 500, 1k or 3k miles?

Since, you could go to a 40 or 50 weight oil and just keep adding. It would be cheaper and you would never have to change the oil, just the filter if you really cared. If the motor is already in poor shape, who cares? Run it with a heavy weight and keep adding.

Not much you can do to cause this unless you ever ran it with the oil light on? Which in turn wipes out the rod bearings before the cylinder walls, so that’s probably not it either.

Edit: it could also be valve stem seals, which is actually better since that would just be a head removel and rebuild. Most machine shops can do an overhaul for 200-400. Yet you would have to get it removed and reinstalled which can take time.

Re: Repair (new engine) 2005 Mazda 3?

Posted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 5:50 pm
by jabberwockOG
Spending 1300-1800 on a 12 year old compact car is a crap shoot. You may be better off putting some liquid ring seal in it and some straight 40 weight oil and trade it quick for a newer car at local dealer. Do not sell it like that privately. Traded in to a dealer, it will be sent to auction and sold "as is" for wholesale auction price that allows for repair by the kind of dealers that trade in super low cost auction cars.

https://www.toolsource.com/misc-c-318/r ... gK2S_D_BwE

Re: Repair (new engine) 2005 Mazda 3?

Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 7:14 am
by tampaite
dm200 wrote:
Fri Oct 27, 2017 5:11 pm
I have a 2005 Mazda 3 that has a bad engine (needs to be replaced). NADA value (clean retail) is $4400 plus 1175 (low mileage).
Just the fact that you posted retail value implies your decision maybe skewed.

What if retail value was $1000, will that change your opinion? If not, you have the answer.

Re: Repair (new engine) 2005 Mazda 3?

Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 7:33 am
by Swansea
I would favor a re-manufactured engine over a rebuilt one depending upon the price difference and how long you want to keep the car. A rebuilt motor only replaces defective parts.

http://reman-engine-dcvamd.com/remanufa ... d-new.html

Re: Repair (new engine) 2005 Mazda 3?

Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 8:06 am
by wander
Since it was involved in an accident before, I think I would buy another 2005 Mazda 3 with clean record, low mile would be better than replace with a used engine.

Re: Repair (new engine) 2005 Mazda 3?

Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 8:31 am
by ClevrChico
Given the circumstances, financially either decision is fine. I'd do what you want to do.

If you decide to sell, you could probably get $2k+ on craigslist in the current condition. A shadetree mechanic would love to buy something like this and DIY the repair.

Re: Repair (new engine) 2005 Mazda 3?

Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 11:51 am
by keaton
Swansea wrote:
Sat Oct 28, 2017 7:33 am
I would favor a re-manufactured engine over a rebuilt one depending upon the price difference and how long you want to keep the car. A rebuilt motor only replaces defective parts.

http://reman-engine-dcvamd.com/remanufa ... d-new.html
That is complete BS, any rebuilt motor goes through the same procedure as a “reman”. Name a part that wouldn’t be replaced in a rebuild over a “reman”? Any rebuilt motor will have new rod and crank bearings, OS piston and rings, complete reseal, valves lapped and new valve stem seals.If it has VVT, that should be replaced depending on manufacture reliability.

I’ve rebuilt motors, and a “reman” would be no different then what even an DIY mechanic would do.

For this situation, a cheap junkyard engine would do just fine, IF the mechanic does a reseal and checks normal wear items depending on manufacture issues. An even better approach, is to get onto a Mazda forum and find someone local that can do it.

Re: Repair (new engine) 2005 Mazda 3?

Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 11:59 am
by tibbitts
I can't answer this without more information. I wouldn't give the same answer to someone with eight figures in a VG account than I would to someone with six figures in consumer debt. I suppose I could search your past posts for information but I'm too lazy to do that.

Re: Repair (new engine) 2005 Mazda 3?

Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 12:26 pm
by sls239
If keeping the car allows you to avoid paying for full coverage insurance with an accident on your record, then it makes more sense.

Re: Repair (new engine) 2005 Mazda 3?

Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 12:39 pm
by z0r
These are brilliant cars and worth repairing. We have three 2005-2007 focuses in the family (essentially the same car and same engine). Extremely reliable engine, normally needs nothing except oil. I love them so much I just bought a wrecked one (making four) to race in the 24 hours of lemons.

I would source a low miles used engine on eBay or car-part.com. Shop wants too much. Nothing to be afraid of doing this as long as the reason it was pulled was body damage.

Re: Repair (new engine) 2005 Mazda 3?

Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 12:59 pm
by dm200
z0r wrote:
Sat Oct 28, 2017 12:39 pm
These are brilliant cars and worth repairing. We have three 2005-2007 focuses in the family (essentially the same car and same engine). Extremely reliable engine, normally needs nothing except oil. I love them so much I just bought a wrecked one (making four) to race in the 24 hours of lemons.
I would source a low miles used engine on eBay or car-part.com. Shop wants too much. Nothing to be afraid of doing this as long as the reason it was pulled was body damage.
For my use, I like the car and the fact that I chose a five speed manual transmission. The only "issue" with that make/model is that it has a very "firm" (my description) or "rough" (my wife's) ride.

Re: Repair (new engine) 2005 Mazda 3?

Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 2:18 pm
by mmmodem
Simple math:
If cost of repair (x) + value of car as-is (y) is < value of car repaired (z), then you choose to repair.

For example if you say repair is ($2500) engine + labor (~$1000)+ value of car as-is (~$2000). That's about ~$5500 which is lower than what you value the car at $5575. Of course, those are my estimates.

It's close enough that I would choose not to repair because if I had $5500 and a choice between two 2005 Mazda 3's. One had its engine replaced and one didn't. I'm going to choose the one that didn't have its engine replaced. A lot of people would say it's a gamble to buy a used car. We don't know anything about the used car. If your own car had major repairs like an engine replacement, it's not a gamble at all. You currently have a car that has or had major issues.

Re: Repair (new engine) 2005 Mazda 3?

Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 2:23 pm
by rebellovw
keaton wrote:
Sat Oct 28, 2017 11:51 am
Swansea wrote:
Sat Oct 28, 2017 7:33 am
I would favor a re-manufactured engine over a rebuilt one depending upon the price difference and how long you want to keep the car. A rebuilt motor only replaces defective parts.

http://reman-engine-dcvamd.com/remanufa ... d-new.html
That is complete BS, any rebuilt motor goes through the same procedure as a “reman”. Name a part that wouldn’t be replaced in a rebuild over a “reman”? Any rebuilt motor will have new rod and crank bearings, OS piston and rings, complete reseal, valves lapped and new valve stem seals.If it has VVT, that should be replaced depending on manufacture reliability.

I’ve rebuilt motors, and a “reman” would be no different then what even an DIY mechanic would do.

For this situation, a cheap junkyard engine would do just fine, IF the mechanic does a reseal and checks normal wear items depending on manufacture issues. An even better approach, is to get onto a Mazda forum and find someone local that can do it.
I agree - my concern though would be the quality of the rebuild - and that would be the tough part. When I needed a new VW motor - I was very safe in getting my new motor because Rebello Racing (firm I know well) recommended it - so it was very safe. If you do not have a good reference - you are taking a risk.

Re: Repair (new engine) 2005 Mazda 3?

Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 3:00 pm
by dm200
mmmodem wrote:
Sat Oct 28, 2017 2:18 pm
Simple math:
If cost of repair (x) + value of car as-is (y) is < value of car repaired (z), then you choose to repair.
For example if you say repair is ($2500) engine + labor (~$1000)+ value of car as-is (~$2000). That's about ~$5500 which is lower than what you value the car at $5575. Of course, those are my estimates.
It's close enough that I would choose not to repair because if I had $5500 and a choice between two 2005 Mazda 3's. One had its engine replaced and one didn't. I'm going to choose the one that didn't have its engine replaced. A lot of people would say it's a gamble to buy a used car. We don't know anything about the used car. If your own car had major repairs like an engine replacement, it's not a gamble at all. You currently have a car that has or had major issues.
Thanks - these numbers can make a lot os sense. Let's see what the repair place can come up with. I think, though, that selling the car with the bad engine would be a challenge as well.

Re: Repair (new engine) 2005 Mazda 3?

Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 3:29 pm
by keaton
Did you get any info on what the actual issue is? Also, again how many miles per quart? As you can go many many miles for much cheaper by just adding oil.

Say your oil change interval is 5k miles (which is short) at $25-$35 per oil change

Vs adding a quart of oil every 1k miles at $3 dollars a quart. That comes out to be $15 bucks every 5k miles. Never change your oil and it would actually be cheaper! Even if it’s 1qt per 500 miles, your still ahead. What is that $150-$300 per 50k miles, yet it’s a zero sum game as you wouldn’t have to do oil changes, ever!

Re: Repair (new engine) 2005 Mazda 3?

Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 5:24 pm
by denovo
dm200 wrote:
Fri Oct 27, 2017 5:11 pm
I have a 2005 Mazda 3 that has a bad engine (needs to be replaced). NADA value (clean retail) is $4400 plus 1175 (low mileage).

If our local car repair place (very honest, ethical) can find an engine (they now guess maybe $2,500) should I get the engine replaced and keep the car? It only has about 70,000 original miles (I am only owner).

I lean yes, if they can find a reasonably priced engine (say, $2,500) repair and keep it. The vehicle satisfies my needs and will not run up a lot of miles annually.

2005 equals 12 year old car. Yes your mileage is low, but the wear and tear of vehicle parts is a function of time and mileage. $2,500 for a $4,400 car is a bad idea, especially when the car is this old. Cars especially don't age well in colder climates and your profile says D.C. area. Unless you are broke and really hard up for money , I would say goodbye to this car.

Re: Repair (new engine) 2005 Mazda 3?

Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 5:29 pm
by denovo
dm200 wrote:
Fri Oct 27, 2017 5:11 pm
I have a 2005 Mazda 3 that has a bad engine (needs to be replaced). NADA value (clean retail)

Wow, oh, yellow, flag, ruling on the field. :happy Retail value is not the fair one to look at. You should be looking at value for private party sales. I figure this car won't be worth more than 3k. Ya, it's really time to let go.

Re: Repair (new engine) 2005 Mazda 3?

Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 5:39 pm
by quantAndHold
denovo wrote:
Sat Oct 28, 2017 5:29 pm
dm200 wrote:
Fri Oct 27, 2017 5:11 pm
I have a 2005 Mazda 3 that has a bad engine (needs to be replaced). NADA value (clean retail)

Wow, oh, yellow, flag, ruling on the field. :happy Retail value is not the fair one to look at. You should be looking at value for private party sales. I figure this car won't be worth more than 3k. Ya, it's really time to let go.
It’s also not a “clean” car. It’s been in an accident, and manhandled badly enough that it needs a new engine. I would just keep adding oil until it either conks out completely, or is due for an emissions test (which it will fail), then drive it to a junkyard and take whatever they give you for it. In the meantime, start saving for another car.

Re: Repair (new engine) 2005 Mazda 3?

Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 6:15 pm
by rebellovw
I recall reading this thread about carmax buying your car (seemed like a good experience) - let them deal with it. Or trade it at a dealership like others have mentioned.

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