Car Enthusiasts Unite! - Porsche, Benz, Ferrari, Lambo, etc.

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HardHitter
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Car Enthusiasts Unite! - Porsche, Benz, Ferrari, Lambo, etc.

Post by HardHitter » Sat Oct 21, 2017 7:53 pm

This is likely going to contradict everything about our "live below our means" mentality, but I am a avid car enthusiast. I've owned all kids of different cars. From RX7s, GTO, Miatas, Vipers, etc.

Right now my stable is a 2012 Mazdaspeed3 and a 2007 Porsche 911 Turbo all of them paid in full cash. As I start to grow older and my wife and I start to focus on starting a family next year, I'm starting to "mature" in my car taste I feel. I no longer feel the need that I need a "daily driver" and a "weekend car" and although my goal is to own a supercar someday (Lamborghini/Ferrari/Mclaren etc.), I am only 31 and need to focus on what I can do to prepare for my future family. Hopefully before I'm old and grey, I'll able to have that supercar as a toy though!

Anyway, I am contemplating selling both cars for "the one". A car that can do it all. Comfort, luxury, but when I want to have some fun, the power is there.

So what is that car? Lately, I've been looking into a 2014 E63S. A biturbo v8 and with a tune and downpipes, people are putting down 600awhp/750awtq while still having the luxuries of an E-class. We are looking at $60K for that so I could sell both cars, get that and add around $15-$20K into the savings.

I know this isn't the best forum to get recommendations, but I'm open to hearing them. Also, I'd be really interested to hear any Bogleheads who own "supercars" since it sort of goes against our "morals" here haha.

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rob
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Re: Car Enthusiasts Unite! - Porsche, Benz, Ferrari, Lambo, etc.

Post by rob » Sat Oct 21, 2017 8:04 pm

Ever looked at Maserati? I always thought they were in that middle ground where I think your looking... and have something more than the usual Benz/BMW.

Edit: A tesla might fit into this group more... and the uprated model S might be interesting.
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Re: Car Enthusiasts Unite! - Porsche, Benz, Ferrari, Lambo, etc.

Post by Jack FFR1846 » Sat Oct 21, 2017 8:19 pm

I'd recommend some high performance driver education days. Lots of clubs run them affordably and the speed 3 would work great for them. (it's not a Miata, but will work). You'll gain actual driving skills, take away awareness that transfers to the highway and learn to anticipate incidents before they happen. Look for clubs in your area (Google or a lot of marques run them...BMW CCA, SCCA, PCA, Audi Club, etc). Or look at track schedules as most list the club events.

A car that does everything doesn't exist. A modified Elise with a supercharger and wide body setup will put most $1M cars to shame. Not a great daily driver, though. I've always thought about buying an 05 Quattroporte (easy to find for $25k) and replace the expensive, finicky transmission with a Corvette manual.

If you want to look at what's available, look at Miller Motorcar's site. They're very overpriced but sell some very nice, exclusive cars.

Personally, I'd probably get an Evora as a toy car (I sold my Elise to pay for a semester of my son's tuition).
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HardHitter
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Re: Car Enthusiasts Unite! - Porsche, Benz, Ferrari, Lambo, etc.

Post by HardHitter » Sat Oct 21, 2017 8:28 pm

rob wrote:
Sat Oct 21, 2017 8:04 pm
Ever looked at Maserati? I always thought they were in that middle ground where I think your looking... and have something more than the usual Benz/BMW.

Edit: A tesla might fit into this group more... and the uprated model S might be interesting.
I have looked at Maserati/Tesla.

The Maserati's looks are beautiful and the exhaust note is music to my ears, but it lacks the power vs something like these turbo v8 sedans (400 hp vs 600) but the main thing I love is the low end torque (400 in the Maserati vs 700 in the E63).

The Tesla is a interesting car. It has instant torque and in ludicrous mode they will just fly. They have a lot of features, but feel the interior is "cheap". Also, even a used P90D is $20K more than the E63.

gator15
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Re: Car Enthusiasts Unite! - Porsche, Benz, Ferrari, Lambo, etc.

Post by gator15 » Sat Oct 21, 2017 8:31 pm

I've owned an RX7, M3 and RS4. All were weekend cars. I enjoyed them all. I sold the M3 last year. I love toy cars, but I'm not sure I will go back down that road anytime soon for various reasons. If I did decided to go that path again I would consider a GTR or maybe a Porsche 911 Turbo like you have. I'm also intrigued by looking into older cars like a '69 Camaro. I'm not sure how comfortable these vehicles are or if you can get them used in your price range, but if I were looking for a daily driver, I might go with a used Panamera Turbo or Cayenne Turbo. While some would disagree, I believe both are beautiful vehicles. The car you are considering is very nice as well. I've never owned a Mercedes.

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Re: Car Enthusiasts Unite! - Porsche, Benz, Ferrari, Lambo, etc.

Post by runner3081 » Sat Oct 21, 2017 8:44 pm

gator15 wrote:
Sat Oct 21, 2017 8:31 pm
I've owned an RX7, M3 and RS4. All were weekend cars. I enjoyed them all. I sold the M3 last year. I love toy cars, but I'm not sure I will go back down that road anytime soon for various reasons. If I did decided to go that path again I would consider a GTR or maybe a Porsche 911 Turbo like you have. I'm also intrigued by looking into older cars like a '69 Camaro. I'm not sure how comfortable these vehicles are or if you can get them used in your price range, but if I were looking for a daily driver, I might go with a used Panamera Turbo or Cayenne Turbo. While some would disagree, I believe both are beautiful vehicles. The car you are considering is very nice as well. I've never owned a Mercedes.
I have also had an M3 as a weekend car. Fun, but just wasn't worth the hassle of a 3rd car. Owned it 3 years and over the last 2 years, only drove it once every 3-4 months. Sold it in September. I will never own another weekend car again, maintenance, licensing and insurance (even with Grundy/Hagerty) adds up for something you hardly drive.

Prior to buying my first BMW a few years back, I drove a couple of older Mustangs, thinking it would be cool to have a classic. YIKES, they were miserable to drive compared to today's cars.

These days, I buy about 10-year old cars with decent, but not crazy, horsepower. My Infiniti G35 is quick enough, but also comfortable enough to suit my daily needs. It is also nice having an older car with kids. Oops, just dropped your Wendy's Frosty on the floor? Oh well, will clean it up. When I had nicer cars, I would have been sick for a month.

The earlier comment about a driving course is spot-on. Did one in my old 335i, it was a BMW CCA day and it was a blast. They even let us on some "parade" routes around the road track. Yeah, those parade laps brought 120+ MPH. Pretty amazing to do the slalom, short oval and other cone work to really know what your car will do in an emergency.

A good middle ground for you would be a Cayenne Turbo S or X5 M. Plenty of speed and driving fun along with utility for a family and life.

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Re: Car Enthusiasts Unite! - Porsche, Benz, Ferrari, Lambo, etc.

Post by sambb » Sat Oct 21, 2017 8:52 pm

Ive owned all sorts of cars - camry hybrids and accord and subaru, and 911s, BMWs, benzes, and Porsche GT cars. Also had a couple of exotics.
THey have all been great. I havent had reliabiliyt problems with any of them, and they were the same as toyota or honda. I like the 3rd car concept. I would like to go to an AMG MB sometime in 2-3 years. I buy preowned, but recently leased a car on a great deal. I get no enjoyment out of 1999 camrys, eating ramen noodles, or staying at a motel 6 if I can afford better. I am interested in a lambo or another 911 GT also at some point. I like the new Audi interiors as well. A R8 might be one way to go - similar to a huracan.

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Re: Car Enthusiasts Unite! - Porsche, Benz, Ferrari, Lambo, etc.

Post by darrvao777 » Sat Oct 21, 2017 8:58 pm

Charger Hellcat

Certainly won't be as luxurious inside as an E-Class but it'll put down an additional 100hp from the car you are targeting ;)

Seats 4 so great for future family plans too

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Re: Car Enthusiasts Unite! - Porsche, Benz, Ferrari, Lambo, etc.

Post by BogleBoogie » Sat Oct 21, 2017 9:14 pm

Have you ever driven the 6 cylinder Toyota Camry? It has a lot more top end speed than the 4 cylinder.

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Re: Car Enthusiasts Unite! - Porsche, Benz, Ferrari, Lambo, etc.

Post by tigermilk » Sat Oct 21, 2017 9:34 pm

5+ year old Aston Martin?

emoore
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Re: Car Enthusiasts Unite! - Porsche, Benz, Ferrari, Lambo, etc.

Post by emoore » Sat Oct 21, 2017 9:45 pm

BogleBoogie wrote:
Sat Oct 21, 2017 9:14 pm
Have you ever driven the 6 cylinder Toyota Camry? It has a lot more top end speed than the 4 cylinder.
Haha. Serious?

darrvao777
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Re: Car Enthusiasts Unite! - Porsche, Benz, Ferrari, Lambo, etc.

Post by darrvao777 » Sat Oct 21, 2017 9:49 pm

The V6 versions of family cars (Camry, Altima, Accord, etc) are actually decent performers given what you pay

That being said, if the OP is looking at an E63, I don't think a Camry is going to fly here.

oragne lovre
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Re: Car Enthusiasts Unite! - Porsche, Benz, Ferrari, Lambo, etc.

Post by oragne lovre » Sat Oct 21, 2017 9:59 pm

HardHitter wrote:
Sat Oct 21, 2017 8:28 pm
rob wrote:
Sat Oct 21, 2017 8:04 pm
Ever looked at Maserati? I always thought they were in that middle ground where I think your looking... and have something more than the usual Benz/BMW.

Edit: A tesla might fit into this group more... and the uprated model S might be interesting.
I have looked at Maserati/Tesla.

The Maserati's looks are beautiful and the exhaust note is music to my ears, but it lacks the power vs something like these turbo v8 sedans (400 hp vs 600) but the main thing I love is the low end torque (400 in the Maserati vs 700 in the E63).

The Tesla is a interesting car. It has instant torque and in ludicrous mode they will just fly. They have a lot of features, but feel the interior is "cheap". Also, even a used P90D is $20K more than the E63.
The definition of "cheap" is subjective - just like how we define Bogleheads' spending habit.
IMO, the Tesla interior design is minimalist and highly functioning, not cheap. When I recently rented a Mercedes to drive around in France, my first impression was "Why it has so many buttons?"
But once again, it is subjective.
The finest, albeit the most difficult, of all human achievements is being reasonable.

HardHitter
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Re: Car Enthusiasts Unite! - Porsche, Benz, Ferrari, Lambo, etc.

Post by HardHitter » Sat Oct 21, 2017 10:12 pm

darrvao777 wrote:
Sat Oct 21, 2017 8:58 pm
Charger Hellcat

Certainly won't be as luxurious inside as an E-Class but it'll put down an additional 100hp from the car you are targeting ;)

Seats 4 so great for future family plans too
It may have a lot of power, but the downfall of Hellcats is that they are rwd and can't get all that power to the ground.
tigermilk wrote:
Sat Oct 21, 2017 9:34 pm
5+ year old Aston Martin?
Similar comment to the Maserati, looking at 400hp

bubbadog
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Re: Car Enthusiasts Unite! - Porsche, Benz, Ferrari, Lambo, etc.

Post by bubbadog » Sat Oct 21, 2017 10:19 pm

You already own one of the best DD cars made. Your 997TT is an awesome car and already paid for!

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rob
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Re: Car Enthusiasts Unite! - Porsche, Benz, Ferrari, Lambo, etc.

Post by rob » Sat Oct 21, 2017 10:19 pm

HardHitter wrote:
Sat Oct 21, 2017 8:28 pm
The Maserati's looks are beautiful and the exhaust note is music to my ears, but it lacks the power vs something like these turbo v8 sedans (400 hp vs 600) but the main thing I love is the low end torque (400 in the Maserati vs 700 in the E63).
Yeah I hear ya but your going to have to compromise to get to into a single car that sounds like it needs to run into a "family" type car at some point... The Merc is a great car.... but some might argue that the Maserati V6 twin is really a Ferrari (sans badge)... You can always buy a prancing horse decal on ebay :-) The hellcat is far more raw power but it's not in the same class as far as "style". I understand on the tesla... you need to like that ascetic (and electric obviously).
| Rob | Its a dangerous business going out your front door. - J.R.R.Tolkien

mirror
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Re: Car Enthusiasts Unite! - Porsche, Benz, Ferrari, Lambo, etc.

Post by mirror » Sat Oct 21, 2017 10:27 pm

Jaguar XJ? Used ones with low miles can be had well within your budget. Some versions get up to 550hp.

HardHitter
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Re: Car Enthusiasts Unite! - Porsche, Benz, Ferrari, Lambo, etc.

Post by HardHitter » Sat Oct 21, 2017 10:35 pm

bubbadog wrote:
Sat Oct 21, 2017 10:19 pm
You already own one of the best DD cars made. Your 997TT is an awesome car and already paid for!
It is an amazing car and some people were telling me why not sell the Mazdaspeed and daily the Turbo. Few reasons from my perspective:

1. It is a "higher mileage" (62K) car. The previous owner already did the 60K service, I just did brake pads (cermaic) which was $1000+ and I'll likely need some new tires soon. Other than that, the car is flawless but worried once I get into the higher miles 70-80-90k range, the values of it will plumet.

2. Monday - Friday, my round trip commute to work is only 10 miles and it is in all stop and go traffic. The fun of the Turbo is experiencing it in open roads. On the weekends, I don't have much time to just go out to "drive" and the time I do have, I anticipate that to decrease once a child is born.

So in my head, I just feel like I don't use the car what it is supposed to be used for which is to tear up the roads/canyon carve. I could get probably $60-$70K for it and pick up a E63 for $60K with 30K miles and drive that into the ground.

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Re: Car Enthusiasts Unite! - Porsche, Benz, Ferrari, Lambo, etc.

Post by bubbadog » Sat Oct 21, 2017 10:52 pm

There is very little depreciation on 997.1 cars. My guess is they are close to the bottom of the curve. If maintained and taken care of, you should be ok.

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Re: Car Enthusiasts Unite! - Porsche, Benz, Ferrari, Lambo, etc.

Post by msk » Sun Oct 22, 2017 1:42 am

" We are looking at $60K for that so I could sell both cars, get that and add around $15-$20K into the savings."
I am at age 73 and over the past 4 decades I owned, at one time or another, the then top models of Porsche, Mercedes, Lexus, Jaguar, BMW, most from new, occasionally used. My adage has always been, "Never acquire a car or cars costing more than 6 months income", whether through lease or purchase. Expensive cars come with high maintenance costs. Mercedes are not cheap to keep running at their design specs. Hope that new toy fits into the 6-months rule-of-thumb. If yes, enjoy! My father-in-law owns a recent model Mercedes AMG S65 as his daily drive and he is 88 years old; so your enthusiasm for cars may yet last a lifetime :mrgreen: No need to rush. Be financially prudent, especially when young, and you will be able to afford exotic cars all in good time. Currently, looking around for cars suited to my septuagenarian age, I ended up undecided between a Mercedes S560 and a Lexus LS500, so I ordered both, delivery slated for February. Informed my father-in-law and he commented that he'll still beat me 0-60 :twisted: Yesterday I had lunch with a 10-figure NW car enthusiast and he commented that a recent test drive in a Bugatti-whatever did not impress him. He felt his existing LaFerrari was the better fun car but now he was worried that his house is too close to the beach and it may cause deterioration to his vast collection of exotics. One way or another, exotic cars are expensive to keep. Though they may experience huge capital appreciation, e.g. his LaFerrari is now worth at least a million$ more than what he paid for it new...

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Re: Car Enthusiasts Unite! - Porsche, Benz, Ferrari, Lambo, etc.

Post by denovo » Sun Oct 22, 2017 6:30 am

I think a daily driver that's still fun to drive and has power, it would be the BMW M3, no question about it for around 60k.
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Re: Car Enthusiasts Unite! - Porsche, Benz, Ferrari, Lambo, etc.

Post by denovo » Sun Oct 22, 2017 6:33 am

darrvao777 wrote:
Sat Oct 21, 2017 8:58 pm
Charger Hellcat

Certainly won't be as luxurious inside as an E-Class but it'll put down an additional 100hp from the car you are targeting ;)

Seats 4 so great for future family plans too
Lol, every Charger I've been in has felt like a roller coaster ride, and not in a good way, very nauseating drive.
"Don't trust everything you read on the Internet"- Abraham Lincoln

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Re: Car Enthusiasts Unite! - Porsche, Benz, Ferrari, Lambo, etc.

Post by CppCoder » Sun Oct 22, 2017 7:10 am

HardHitter wrote:
Sat Oct 21, 2017 10:35 pm
On the weekends, I don't have much time to just go out to "drive" and the time I do have, I anticipate that to decrease once a child is born.
I don't know much about high performance cars, but given your quote above, I'll be back to comment on your future thread in 2023 asking us to compare the Odyssey to the Sienna. :twisted:

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Re: Car Enthusiasts Unite! - Porsche, Benz, Ferrari, Lambo, etc.

Post by Kenkat » Sun Oct 22, 2017 8:44 am

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but for where you are at in your life, I’d sell the Porsche and keep driving the Mazda 3 as a daily driver. Invest the money you save and buy your dream car in your 50’s when your kids are older and you can afford to be less practical again. The problem with a 600hp Mercedes will be the same problem you have with the Porsche - there are very few opportunities to exercise a car like that at even a fraction of its capabilities during the week and you will not have a lot of time during the weekend once you start a family. You will end up with a 600hp grocery getter.

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Re: Car Enthusiasts Unite! - Porsche, Benz, Ferrari, Lambo, etc.

Post by ClevrChico » Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:01 am

HardHitter wrote:
Sat Oct 21, 2017 7:53 pm
As I start to grow older and my wife and I start to focus on starting a family next year, I'm starting to "mature" in my car taste I feel.
Whatever you get, understand it will take a beating from the kiddos. Carseats tend to leave wear marks, kids get crumbs *everywhere*, and dw left a diaper under the back seat once. :shock:

I've had to train my kids not to take their finger and run it down a dirty car. All kids seem to love that for some reason.

It sounds like you're leaning towards a Benz that is already broken in, and I'm sure mb-tex is tough material. But, yeah, I wouldn't haul my kids in a daily that I wanted to keep pristine.

Will car seats fit in the back of the 911? I'd be inclined to just keep that if they do.
Last edited by ClevrChico on Sun Oct 22, 2017 10:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Alexa9
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Re: Car Enthusiasts Unite! - Porsche, Benz, Ferrari, Lambo, etc.

Post by Alexa9 » Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:13 am

I'd sell both cars and look at SUV's/Minivans for your kids. Cayenne?
Take a trip to the track and rent Ferraris/Lambos if you get the urge to splurge.

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Re: Car Enthusiasts Unite! - Porsche, Benz, Ferrari, Lambo, etc.

Post by capsaicinguy » Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:26 am

I'm going to echo what ClevrChico and KenKat said. If you are thinking kids in the near future, I would say just enjoy what you have for now and then go for something more practical once you guys are pregnant. As a 33 y/o dad of two littles (both under 3), they will trash anything you haul them in on a daily basis. Dirty shoes on the seats (rear facing carseats), cheerios everywhere, smeared in craisins, you get the idea. I was into fun cars and all that before we had kids too. A friend of mine is going through a similar debate after daily driving his cayenne turbo s, is moving into a tacoma (winter) and a CTS-V (summer). Upkeep costs on the porsche are big $$$ when you put a lot of miles on it (he drives all over for his job). We have fully embraced the minivan, remember it's not just the kid(s) you have to haul around, it's all of the extras too like strollers, diaper bags, etc especially if you do a road trip. I'd love to see someone try to fit a double B.O.B. stroller in the back of a 911. :D

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Re: Car Enthusiasts Unite! - Porsche, Benz, Ferrari, Lambo, etc.

Post by ClevrChico » Sun Oct 22, 2017 10:01 am

capsaicinguy wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:26 am
II'd love to see someone try to fit a double B.O.B. stroller in the back of a 911. :D
LOL, there's always roof racks for the 911! I'd love to see a stroller on top of a 911! The sure sign of being a dad. :happy
Last edited by ClevrChico on Sun Oct 22, 2017 10:21 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Car Enthusiasts Unite! - Porsche, Benz, Ferrari, Lambo, etc.

Post by Sandtrap » Sun Oct 22, 2017 10:11 am

Kenkat wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2017 8:44 am
I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but for where you are at in your life, I’d sell the Porsche and keep driving the Mazda 3 as a daily driver. Invest the money you save and buy your dream car in your 50’s when your kids are older and you can afford to be less practical again. The problem with a 600hp Mercedes will be the same problem you have with the Porsche - there are very few opportunities to exercise a car like that at even a fraction of its capabilities during the week and you will not have a lot of time during the weekend once you start a family. You will end up with a 600hp grocery getter.
I live in a very large valley dotted with retiree estates and McMansions. In the center, a very long country road.
Often seen, retirees in classic or new Porches, Benzes, Ferrari, Lambo, Model T and Model A hotrods, Jaguar XKE's, muscle car convertibles, a few new corvettes, etc.
Drivers are usually white hair or none, flying in the breeze, reliving the days of their youth. Usually a guy, sometimes with DW, usually white hair with a bonnet.
I know quite a few with classic car "stables" garages. . . . Not a minivan in sight.
Stages of life. :D

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Re: Car Enthusiasts Unite! - Porsche, Benz, Ferrari, Lambo, etc.

Post by Afty » Sun Oct 22, 2017 10:31 am

I would look hard at a Tesla preferably the PxxD model. They are incredibly fast (see https://youtu.be/cvk18vx-nrY where it beats a 911 Turbo S in the quarter mile) and handle much better than they have any right to, because all the weight is in he battery pack under the floor.

Otherwise I would also consider an M3, RS4, and C63 AMG if you’re willing to step down one size. I’m a small car guy, so that’s where my mind immediately goes. The Alfa Romeo Giulia Quadrifoglio is getting great reviews, but Alfa reliability would scare me away.

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Re: Car Enthusiasts Unite! - Porsche, Benz, Ferrari, Lambo, etc.

Post by sc9182 » Sun Oct 22, 2017 10:44 am

Or simply go with recent model E-class p1 or p2 packages (no AMG maintenance-CRAP). Get a CPO or single owner/lease-return-- buy Route-66 warranty for non-CPO (via PenFed)

you get to enjoy the amazing E-class ride - beautiful interior (especially 2017 or newer model) - Great warranty coverage - decent maintenance costs. this is one amazing daily driver, got looks and luxury, and Family hauler, all-in-one. A used late-model E-class is not all that expensive to start with; but forget AMG performance - like others pointed - rarely you get to use at most few percentile of AMG capabilities. Our friends claim about 30+ mpg on office commute (mostly on highway).

Now - you want task/fun/mood specific Toy cars - sure, go get them. One toy-car per EACH $1million of saved, invested and healthy growing assets and paid off 3+ garage home. That's 'monies' invested, not 'honeys'.
Last edited by sc9182 on Sun Oct 22, 2017 11:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

stoptothink
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Re: Car Enthusiasts Unite! - Porsche, Benz, Ferrari, Lambo, etc.

Post by stoptothink » Sun Oct 22, 2017 10:56 am

HardHitter wrote:
Sat Oct 21, 2017 10:35 pm
bubbadog wrote:
Sat Oct 21, 2017 10:19 pm
You already own one of the best DD cars made. Your 997TT is an awesome car and already paid for!
It is an amazing car and some people were telling me why not sell the Mazdaspeed and daily the Turbo. Few reasons from my perspective:

1. It is a "higher mileage" (62K) car. The previous owner already did the 60K service, I just did brake pads (cermaic) which was $1000+ and I'll likely need some new tires soon. Other than that, the car is flawless but worried once I get into the higher miles 70-80-90k range, the values of it will plumet.

2. Monday - Friday, my round trip commute to work is only 10 miles and it is in all stop and go traffic. The fun of the Turbo is experiencing it in open roads. On the weekends, I don't have much time to just go out to "drive" and the time I do have, I anticipate that to decrease once a child is born.

So in my head, I just feel like I don't use the car what it is supposed to be used for which is to tear up the roads/canyon carve. I could get probably $60-$70K for it and pick up a E63 for $60K with 30K miles and drive that into the ground.
FWIW, my brother has a '14 AMG E63 wagon. He purchased it for a very similar reason and it has been a disaster. At this point it sits in the garage as it has become a maintenance nightmare (has had several issues not covered by warranty), he is underwater on it, and it is very expensive to fix. Even with awd, it's also really bad in the snow (this might not be an issue for you). When he drove it to Utah last winter to explore moving here, it got stuck like 6x in 3 days (my Hyundai accent got stuck 0 times in 5 years). Of course they decided to move to here, so now he either has to take a major hit and sell it or buy some snow tires and hope for the best.

IMO, you are looking for something that doesn't exist. Keep the "beater"for your commuting needs. From the sounds of things, it sounds like you have little opportunity to enjoy the fun car now, and the kid(s) hasn't even shown up yet. Getting a high-performance sedan as a single vehicle just sounds like an odd solution.

Frisco Kid
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Re: Car Enthusiasts Unite! - Porsche, Benz, Ferrari, Lambo, etc.

Post by Frisco Kid » Sun Oct 22, 2017 11:03 am

Life long car guy here, the "fun" cars have always been NON daily drivers. Goal with those cars are reasonable yearly mileage and limited exposure to door dings,etc. As you know, tires and brakes will cost you big time and running up the mileage on a 911 Turbo will negatively effect the resale. Keep transaction costs in mind as well................. I see a family car in your future, until you have a kid, do nothing.

randomguy
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Re: Car Enthusiasts Unite! - Porsche, Benz, Ferrari, Lambo, etc.

Post by randomguy » Sun Oct 22, 2017 11:38 am

Afty wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2017 10:31 am
I would look hard at a Tesla preferably the PxxD model. They are incredibly fast (see https://youtu.be/cvk18vx-nrY where it beats a 911 Turbo S in the quarter mile) and handle much better than they have any right to, because all the weight is in he battery pack under the floor.

Otherwise I would also consider an M3, RS4, and C63 AMG if you’re willing to step down one size. I’m a small car guy, so that’s where my mind immediately goes. The Alfa Romeo Giulia Quadrifoglio is getting great reviews, but Alfa reliability would scare me away.
All of these cars end up with some type of trade offs between space, handling, luxury, reliability, cost and so on. Which ones to make are pretty personal. You can only drive them all at about 50% on public roads and the difference between 0-60 in 4s and 4.5s isn't really noticeable:). And as always going used helps a lot with depreciation but you better have a handle on what the likely repair costs will be. Nothing wrong with spending mony on stuff you enjoy. Just go in with your eyses wide open. I sort of doubt that buying a E63 is going to be cheaper. If you are putting miles on that, the operating costs (low fuel economy, tires, depreciation) could very well be higher than running 2 cars.

sixty40
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Re: Car Enthusiasts Unite! - Porsche, Benz, Ferrari, Lambo, etc.

Post by sixty40 » Sun Oct 22, 2017 11:52 am

I think you can have a "fun" car whenever you like, even when starting a family, it depends on income and willingness of both spouses.

I do not know if it is considered a "supercar", but I have a Porsche 993 C4S. I bought it in when our kids were 8, 4, and 2. Both my wife and I agreed on it. It is definitely only a casual weekend car. I grew up building models and liked Porsches the most, and never actually thought I would by one since they seem to be for the wealthy, but when my income allowed and the opportunity was there, I bought it. I am not really a car guy, and although I do not drive it much, I definitely like looking at it sitting in the garage. The sound of the air cooled engine, the distinctive "old" school Porsche shape, the smell of the German leather, etc. all enhances the experience. It also helps that is has gone up in value.

I would say get a car you are some passion for, not just for the time being, but something you can enjoy for yrs to come, unless that is not your thing. And spend the money on the one you want if you can, do not settle. I have heard many a story of people saying I wished I bought this model or that model instead.

Nothing wrong with owning a minivan, SUV, and a supercar.

smackboy1
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Re: Car Enthusiasts Unite! - Porsche, Benz, Ferrari, Lambo, etc.

Post by smackboy1 » Sun Oct 22, 2017 1:08 pm

HardHitter wrote:
Sat Oct 21, 2017 7:53 pm
Right now my stable is a 2012 Mazdaspeed3 and a 2007 Porsche 911 Turbo all of them paid in full cash. As I start to grow older and my wife and I start to focus on starting a family next year, I'm starting to "mature" in my car taste I feel. I no longer feel the need that I need a "daily driver" and a "weekend car" and although my goal is to own a supercar someday (Lamborghini/Ferrari/Mclaren etc.), I am only 31 and need to focus on what I can do to prepare for my future family. Hopefully before I'm old and grey, I'll able to have that supercar as a toy though!

Anyway, I am contemplating selling both cars for "the one". A car that can do it all. Comfort, luxury, but when I want to have some fun, the power is there.

So what is that car? Lately, I've been looking into a 2014 E63S. A biturbo v8 and with a tune and downpipes, people are putting down 600awhp/750awtq while still having the luxuries of an E-class. We are looking at $60K for that so I could sell both cars, get that and add around $15-$20K into the savings
It depends on how and where you want to drive. For me there is no "the one" car. Everything has compromises. When we first had kids I drove a modded Audi allroad. I ended up replacing it with 2 cars: a 911 and Toyota Sienna minivan.

The 911 I modded for the track. It's got great handling but it's not comfortable, not practical and really loud. But it was fun to drive (alone). I used to take it out on the track for fun, but to be honest I haven't been on any kind of closed course for years. Life gets in the way. The minivan is the workhorse family car. My wife had her own personal fun car, a MINI Cooper S.

When the kids were small would I have traded the 911 for a Panamera? M5? Quattroporte? Rapide? Cayenne Turbo? X5M? etc. - No. No matter what the hp, those are big heavy cars that for me will never feel small and agile. When with the family the allure of going fast on public roads has no appeal compared to getting from A to B comfortably and safely. For raising kids and transporting people and luggage, the minivan has no equal. I didn't care if the car gots hit in the parking lot. I didn't care if someone threw up in the car. Everybody could eat and get food all over the car and I didn't care. But I always had the 911 on occasional weekends - I may have only driven 2,000 miles a year for so long I cannot remember.

Now that our kids are teenagers, it's time to get rid of the minivan. We recently bought BMW PHEVs: X5 40e and 330e - but I'm not yet ready to part with the 911.

That's me. Your personal calculus may be different. Take it slowly. Don't get a family car until the kids are imminent. Maybe start off by selling 1 car first. What does the wife have to say about all of this?
Disclaimer: nothing written here should be taken as legal advice, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

sambb
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Re: Car Enthusiasts Unite! - Porsche, Benz, Ferrari, Lambo, etc.

Post by sambb » Sun Oct 22, 2017 1:27 pm

Agree with you about the 911. Heavier cars and Tesla cant compare, and will have limited value 10 years old. Not a 911. Always will work and always will be desired. Wish I kept mine sometimes, and interested in a 911 GT car. Someone here has a 911 GT3 RS from what i remember, hope they chime in.

Once you have a 911, you realize, it isnt about 0-60 and straight line speed. Can never go wrong with a 911 (or any 911) as a third car for weekends and fun.

daveydoo
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Re: Car Enthusiasts Unite! - Porsche, Benz, Ferrari, Lambo, etc.

Post by daveydoo » Sun Oct 22, 2017 1:54 pm

HardHitter wrote:
Sat Oct 21, 2017 7:53 pm
Lately, I've been looking into a 2014 E63S. A biturbo v8 and with a tune and downpipes, people are putting down 600awhp/750awtq while still having the luxuries of an E-class. We are looking at $60K for that so I could sell both cars, get that and add around $15-$20K into the savings.
Some years ago, I almost bought a 2010 E63 -- this was before the biturbo. Spouse said it looked like I'd need a cigar if I were driving it. Ended up getting an off-lease 335d which in normal human driving felt almost as quick (much slower 0-60 though), felt more nimble, and was nearly half the cost. I looked seriously at a 2012 (?) CLS63-S AMG in the $ ballpark you're talking about -- but both the E and the CLS were too big and plush and isolating to feel sporty or to toss around, imo.

The car I covet now is the Giulia Quadrifoglio, as you mentioned. Car & Driver and Jeremy Clarkson?! There aren't many in my area. Unlike an M3 or a Porsche, it's hard to drive the price up too much with options; however, there's a hefty novelty/scarcity premium in my quarter of the country. So if I were to go that route, I'd wait a year or two (or, in all likelihood, forever). I know you can get all kinds of great stuff for that same $ if you're willing to go back far enough, but I don't have the garage real estate for a project -- whatever I'd buy has to be drivable for me and the family.

But...aren't you the guy who seriously constrained his wife's car-buying options to keep her purchase under $20K?? I think I see how this system works... I bolded the We above :D. YMMV, but I wouldn't do that. Downpipes? Unless she really loves the idea of aftermarket downpipes for you, I think I'd divert some of this very discretionary spending to get her into something a little less bare-bones :D .
"I mean, it's one banana, Michael...what could it cost? Ten dollars?"

4ransom
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Re: Car Enthusiasts Unite! - Porsche, Benz, Ferrari, Lambo, etc.

Post by 4ransom » Sun Oct 22, 2017 2:30 pm

Nothing can do it all. We have a 4 passenger jeep for off road, snow and passengers and a classic Corvette convertible for summer fun and road trips with wife.

HardHitter
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Re: Car Enthusiasts Unite! - Porsche, Benz, Ferrari, Lambo, etc.

Post by HardHitter » Sun Oct 22, 2017 4:20 pm

Appreciate all of the feedback here! Some comments I wanted to address

- My wife drives a 2010 Nissan Cube with 83K on it at the moment. It wasn't her choice to get that car as someone had totaled her car during the night (it was parked) and her Mom was "nice enough" to go out and buy her a car and throw the loan at her. This was while we were still dating so I had no view into finances, but the Mom paid $16K for that car, promised that she would pay for half the car payments AND had no financial understanding of interest (8% interest?!?). Mom ended up not holding her end of the bargain and my wife didn't find out that she wasn't making her payments until 5-6 months into the loan. Yes, I was pretty pissed.

- With the above said, we've paid off her car right after we got married (about 2 years ago). Because of the kid coming into play next year, she wanted to get into a family SUV. I agreed that it'd be best for us and we had set the budget at $20K because she has no idea about cars (you can see my other thread on this) and doesn't care. She just wants it to "look cool" and "have cool features" which is fairly easy to do being that she is coming from a Cube.

- I think you are all right at the moment. All of our cars and paid off and when we buy her car, we'd be paying in cash (unless there is a 0% financing option) and we'd still have a 16 month emergency fund build up after purchase. There is no need to sell my cars.

- You all make a good point about kids and the kind of messes they can make in a car. I am very anal about my cars, especially my weekend toys! And yes, a car seat does fit in the back of a 911 :)

pechy2925
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Re: Car Enthusiasts Unite! - Porsche, Benz, Ferrari, Lambo, etc.

Post by pechy2925 » Sun Oct 22, 2017 4:24 pm

What about a SRT Jeep?

GoldenFinch
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Re: Car Enthusiasts Unite! - Porsche, Benz, Ferrari, Lambo, etc.

Post by GoldenFinch » Sun Oct 22, 2017 4:54 pm

After reading both your car threads I think the best approach is to buy your wife a luxury car and get yourself a minivan.

trackjunke
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Re: Car Enthusiasts Unite! - Porsche, Benz, Ferrari, Lambo, etc.

Post by trackjunke » Sun Oct 22, 2017 5:13 pm

I can't really speak to your personal finances but I would not sell the fun car. I have tried the "one car that does it all" with a CTSV wagon 6speed after selling my 993 and a buddy wrecking my 996 GT3. Guess what...ended up with a 911 (07 Turbo) in the garage plus a daily driver Subaru Outback. The Turbo does all the performance stuff better and I drive it semi daily with a car seat in the back and a roof rack on the top if needed. Don't worry about the miles, Porsche are more reliable if driven and don't just sit. The only thing I regret is not getting a "semi fun" daily driver. I hate the Subaru every time I drive it but also don't care when it gets trashed by my daughter. Will probably replace it with something a bit better soon but not in a huge rush. Not that much really exciting on the market right now.

CFIT
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Re: Car Enthusiasts Unite! - Porsche, Benz, Ferrari, Lambo, etc.

Post by CFIT » Sun Oct 22, 2017 5:16 pm

Have you ever done any kind of competitive driving? I ask because I've been a sports car guy all of my life (Datsun 240Z, Toyota MR2, RX7 twin turbo, BMW Z3, Porsche 993). When I got the Porsche I joined the local Porsche club and started autocrossing. True, it isn't wheel-to-wheel racing, just you vs the clock. All the same I found out what my car could do at the edges (never got to close to the limits): that great, great feeling of sliding through a corner on hot rubber, braking hard at the end or a straight, feeling the G forces from all angles as you scramble through the cones. At the end of each session I'd drive home in awe of my car. The downside, if you can call it that, is I came to realize that I'd never be able to safely approach that kind of driving on a public road. I saw that many of the people around me in workday traffic were unskilled, undisciplined morons as drivers and dangers to themselves and others. The fun of hotrodding on the streets faded and I became more concerned about getting safely from point A to point B.

Before you make any decisions, why not take your 911 to an autocross?

bubbadog
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Re: Car Enthusiasts Unite! - Porsche, Benz, Ferrari, Lambo, etc.

Post by bubbadog » Sun Oct 22, 2017 5:16 pm

You are young, recently married, and maybe kids in the near future. I know this is not advice you want to hear or will seriously consider but maybe your best move is to keep the Mazda, sell the Porsche, and get your wife a nice used SUV. Your Mazda is a great car and fun to drive. You still have plenty of time in the future for toys.

HardHitter
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Re: Car Enthusiasts Unite! - Porsche, Benz, Ferrari, Lambo, etc.

Post by HardHitter » Sun Oct 22, 2017 5:41 pm

CFIT wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2017 5:16 pm
Have you ever done any kind of competitive driving? I ask because I've been a sports car guy all of my life (Datsun 240Z, Toyota MR2, RX7 twin turbo, BMW Z3, Porsche 993). When I got the Porsche I joined the local Porsche club and started autocrossing. True, it isn't wheel-to-wheel racing, just you vs the clock. All the same I found out what my car could do at the edges (never got to close to the limits): that great, great feeling of sliding through a corner on hot rubber, braking hard at the end or a straight, feeling the G forces from all angles as you scramble through the cones. At the end of each session I'd drive home in awe of my car. The downside, if you can call it that, is I came to realize that I'd never be able to safely approach that kind of driving on a public road. I saw that many of the people around me in workday traffic were unskilled, undisciplined morons as drivers and dangers to themselves and others. The fun of hotrodding on the streets faded and I became more concerned about getting safely from point A to point B.

Before you make any decisions, why not take your 911 to an autocross?
I haven't actually tracked my Porsche or any of my other cars (like my Viper that I used to have) for the reason that it is expensive to maintain a Porsche, we all know that, but I can afford it. But, when you track a car, there is a lot of wear/tear that gets put on the car and that will just cause the car to have things break faster. For example, tires, brakes, etc. I have ceramic brakes on my Turbo and actually just replaced the pads ($1000). I'd be willing to bet that after 1 aggressive track day, those pads will be worn down and I'd replace them same day as if you're a car guy, you know how much ceramic rotors are if you damage them ($5-$7K a rotor). I've owned Miatas before was the most fun I've had in a car. Why? Because I could absolutely trash that car and be able to spend the money for anything that breaks. New motor "used" motor? About $900, need new rotors and pads? About $400 for all 4 corners, etc.

Also, when I started talking to my wife about selling the Porsche and such, she actually said she wants me to keep it over getting a Benz etc. She knows since we were dating, I've always had my toy weekend cars and knows that is a big thing to me.

And for my wife, we are getting her a "nice used SUV". That $20K budget (likely going to get stretched) is able to buy a broad range of SUVS. If she wants to really get into a Benz/Audi, we can get a older (2010-2012) "mid mile" GLK/Q5 or she has the option of getting a "newer" (2015-2016) SUV fully loaded such as the Mazda CX-5. She is still deciding over that choice, but I know the Mazda and that route will be the more reliable vs the higher mileages Benz/Audi and maintenance cost will be a lot cheaper if/when something breaks, but I can't really argue since I have a higher mileage Turbo (60K) even though I made sure all service records were done with it, including the 60K mile service from Porsche.

investor997
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Re: Car Enthusiasts Unite! - Porsche, Benz, Ferrari, Lambo, etc.

Post by investor997 » Sun Oct 22, 2017 6:03 pm

I like the 997 - so much so, I'm named after it :) Seriously, it's a good choice for a "fun" car. Not cheap to buy, but they're pretty far down on the depreciation curve. The 997 Turbos in particular have probably bottomed out. And unlike many other high-dollar cars (at least when new) they're pretty durable and aren't maintenance nightmares. I've done routine maintenance on mine such as changing spark plugs and the serpentine belt. Oil changes are also a breeze.

veggivet
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Re: Car Enthusiasts Unite! - Porsche, Benz, Ferrari, Lambo, etc.

Post by veggivet » Sun Oct 22, 2017 6:54 pm

Best investment you can make is to schedule some HPDE days at the track with your Porsche. You will realize that you are the weakest link between the car and the road, and the skills you learn on the track will make you a better driver on the public roads. You will also have tons of fun while you're at it. I usually get in between 6-8 days at tracks here in the northeast with my MINI Cooper, and meet a ton of fellow gearheads in the process.

smackboy1
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Re: Car Enthusiasts Unite! - Porsche, Benz, Ferrari, Lambo, etc.

Post by smackboy1 » Sun Oct 22, 2017 8:55 pm

HardHitter wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2017 5:41 pm
I haven't actually tracked my Porsche or any of my other cars (like my Viper that I used to have) for the reason that it is expensive to maintain a Porsche, we all know that, but I can afford it. But, when you track a car, there is a lot of wear/tear that gets put on the car and that will just cause the car to have things break faster. For example, tires, brakes, etc. I have ceramic brakes on my Turbo and actually just replaced the pads ($1000). I'd be willing to bet that after 1 aggressive track day, those pads will be worn down and I'd replace them same day as if you're a car guy, you know how much ceramic rotors are if you damage them ($5-$7K a rotor). I've owned Miatas before was the most fun I've had in a car. Why? Because I could absolutely trash that car and be able to spend the money for anything that breaks. New motor "used" motor? About $900, need new rotors and pads? About $400 for all 4 corners, etc.

Also, when I started talking to my wife about selling the Porsche and such, she actually said she wants me to keep it over getting a Benz etc. She knows since we were dating, I've always had my toy weekend cars and knows that is a big thing to me.
It's not that expensive to start tracking your 997. You need to join PCA, buy a helmet, portable air compressor and tire pressure gauge - that's about it. The brake pads so those are fresh. You are going to be put in the green run group so it's going to be learning the ropes and not pushing the car to 10/10. As a car enthusiast with a 997 TT with the carbon ceramic rotors it's almost sacrilege not to drive the car like it was designed to. Trust me, Porsche engineers know how to build a car, you're not going to wear it out doing HPDE. If you don't do it this year, you'll be another year older when you do. Do it all now before the kids arrive.

Or, sell the Porsche and buy a Miata and take that out on the track :sharebeer
Disclaimer: nothing written here should be taken as legal advice, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

ssquared87
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Re: Car Enthusiasts Unite! - Porsche, Benz, Ferrari, Lambo, etc.

Post by ssquared87 » Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:34 pm

smackboy1 wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2017 8:55 pm
HardHitter wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2017 5:41 pm
I haven't actually tracked my Porsche or any of my other cars (like my Viper that I used to have) for the reason that it is expensive to maintain a Porsche, we all know that, but I can afford it. But, when you track a car, there is a lot of wear/tear that gets put on the car and that will just cause the car to have things break faster. For example, tires, brakes, etc. I have ceramic brakes on my Turbo and actually just replaced the pads ($1000). I'd be willing to bet that after 1 aggressive track day, those pads will be worn down and I'd replace them same day as if you're a car guy, you know how much ceramic rotors are if you damage them ($5-$7K a rotor). I've owned Miatas before was the most fun I've had in a car. Why? Because I could absolutely trash that car and be able to spend the money for anything that breaks. New motor "used" motor? About $900, need new rotors and pads? About $400 for all 4 corners, etc.

Also, when I started talking to my wife about selling the Porsche and such, she actually said she wants me to keep it over getting a Benz etc. She knows since we were dating, I've always had my toy weekend cars and knows that is a big thing to me.
It's not that expensive to start tracking your 997. You need to join PCA, buy a helmet, portable air compressor and tire pressure gauge - that's about it. The brake pads so those are fresh. You are going to be put in the green run group so it's going to be learning the ropes and not pushing the car to 10/10. As a car enthusiast with a 997 TT with the carbon ceramic rotors it's almost sacrilege not to drive the car like it was designed to. Trust me, Porsche engineers know how to build a car, you're not going to wear it out doing HPDE. If you don't do it this year, you'll be another year older when you do. Do it all now before the kids arrive.

Or, sell the Porsche and buy a Miata and take that out on the track :sharebeer
+1

Enjoy your 911 the way it was meant to be driven. Something like the E63 won't be enjoyable on public roads and if you're not going to track it, whats the point?

I know a lot of car guys love power, but personally I prefer a great handling car that I could enjoy on public roads. My weekend car is an E36 M3. Just spent the afternoon driving canyons in Malibu and having a great time. The car only has 240hp, but i can enjoy all of that power in the canyons without going too far above the posted speed limits.

I drove a BRZ for about a year and loved that for the same reason.

Why not get a new or used BMW 3 with manual transmission, RWD, throw on a limited slip diff and M3 control arms and call it a day? Hell, why not go with an M3?

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